Tips Please from CF Booking.Com Users

[Robo]

Hi,

My wife and I are planning a short Camino from Sarria in mid May. (Please note we prefer private accommodation)

On the CF last year I tended to book 1 or 2 days ahead. And for the 'final 100' I actually booked all my stops 3-4 days before hitting Sarria. Many I called ahead. But I used booking.com a lot as well. It worked really well.

I'm starting to look at small hotels now. On Booking.com
And many are already booked.

So a question for those who use booking.com a lot on the CF...........

Are they appearing to be fully booked because:

1. Hotels don't release rooms to Booking.com until closer to the time? 2-3 weeks before , longer, shorter? I guess the hotel owners want to try to get long term bookings at full rates before using discount sites like booking.com
2. Hotels are genuinely booking out already! Which would be hard to believe. Surely I'm looking at 25 May from Sarria and arrive Santiago 3 June. Yes I know, a very slow ramble! Are those particular dates busy or some reason? I checked public holidays....

What would be a good 'lead time' to start looking at Hotel bookings do you think? 2 months out? One month out?

And before suggesting we merely 'go with the flow' and see what we can find............ My wife with whom I am walking is not at all a 'go with the flow' person

So for my stress levels............and hers; I am booking it all ahead

 

[GillRichardson]

We are doing a short stretch from Pamplona to Logrono in June. I booked most of our accommodation through booking.com a few months ago. Recently my daughter decided to join us, when I went to book her rooms I found that a couple of places were sold out. This year has been declared a Holy Year, so I think the Camino is going to be busier than usual, that could account for the rush on rooms, particularly on the stretch you are walking.

 

[mspath]

It is always worth checking directly with an accommodation listed by any booking service! Both availabilities and/or prices may differ. Such accommodation pays a fee to that service and thus their stated price on that service link reflects that fee. Furthermore all rooms are not always listed with any service. Thus for the lowest price and/or unlisted room find the accommodation website or telephone and ask directly.

 

[Robo]

It is always worth checking directly with an accommodation listed by any booking service! Both availabilities and/or prices may differ. Such accommodation pays a fee to that service and thus their stated price on that service link reflects that fee. Furthermore all rooms are not always listed with any service. Thus for the lowest price and/or unlisted room find the accommodation website or telephone and ask directly.

Good idea. I might have to hire a Spanish speaker for a day to make the bookings

 

[Robo]

We are doing a short stretch from Pamplona to Logrono in June. I booked most of our accommodation through booking.com a few months ago. Recently my daughter decided to join us, when I went to book her rooms I found that a couple of places were sold out. This year has been declared a Holy Year, so I think the Camino is going to be busier than usual, that could account for the rush on rooms, particularly on the stretch you are walking.

Yes...........the crowds may be interesting this year. But I am resolved that it will just be a different experience

I am planning to stay at the 'between' stage places, and to start late each day! Last year that worked quite well for me..... My last day into Santiago I walked for 2 hours with no one in sight!

 

[marbuck]

I tried using Booking.com to book a room in SJPDP a couple of weeks ago. They said they were full so I then contacted the hotel direct and was able to make a booking. This week Booking.com have vacancy's for the same hotel. I think the hotels don't release all their rooms to the booking agency's. In 2014 we used Booking.com and Brierley guide all the way from SJPDP to Santiago for private rooms and never had a problem. We were nearly always booked at least two days ahead. It worked well.

 

[peregrina2000]

I can also confirm that the hotels don't release all rooms to booking.com. Depending on the size of the place, the proprietors have to agree that they will leave a certain number of rooms available just for booking. That means they run the risk of filling up their non-booking rooms and being stuck with booking.com rooms being empty. But I think the situation is usually the reverse -- the booking.com rooms are all filled while the hotel itself still has rooms available.

Good idea. I might have to hire a Spanish speaker for a day to make the bookings

Robo, I have a very cheap Spanish calling card and can call Spain for about 3 cents a minute, so I'm happy to make a few calls for you, I'll PM you. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[julia-t]

I agree with the above comments.

There are other similar websites you can try, less well-known/well-used than booking.com.

www.travelrepublic.com
www.lowcostholidays.com
www.venere.com
www.trivago.co.uk
www.laterooms.com
www.hotels4u.com

I've used most of these at some point over the past few years, and usually check them against each other for the best prices. Sometimes I book the hotel direct by emailing or calling. Some of these websites charge a small deposit (like £1), some are non-refundable pay-up-front, some are pay a couple of weeks in advance. But if it gets you a room where you want to be when you want, do you really mind?

 

[Deleted member 36903]

I use booking.com for the convenience it offers to book ahead without deposit and to cancel a room if my plans/routes change, as they have done after advice from members of this forum. I have booked and cancelled many rooms prior to walking the Portuguese Coastal Route this year, so I assume that others might be doing the same, therefore, it might be useful to keep checking on the original accommodation providers you identified to see if any rooms have now become available. Buen camino!

 

[Tia Valeria]

We too have found that many booking.com places can appear to be full but the hotels themselves have space. Many have English web-pages and online forms for reservations so it might be worth searching for their own websites.
Our impression is that this year places are booking up fast but some also have not yet released their bookings, or add to the booking.com site a few at a time.

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

Last year we found that calling up accommodation which showed as unavailable on Booking.com found rooms on almost all occasions. My Spanish really improved! Also check and see if the hotel etc has its own website as this often shows available/booked rooms so that you can tell if it's booked out. However, we did end up booking a few days in advance before Fridays & Saturdays. Many places that we stayed in along the Camino Frances in April and May last year were already taking bookings for 2016. I've mentioned elsewhere that there is a lot of publicity about the Camino this year with many tour/travel/trek companies offering trips with booked accommodation. Another alternative is to go to a travel agent and see what they can find for you. Several 'ordinary' ie not adventure companies here are offering this service as well.

If you are looking to spoil your wife and want an easy day for your last on the Camino into Santiago, consider staying in Lavacolla and then sauntering the final 10kms the next morning to Mass at the Cathedral. Can recommend Pazo Xan Xordo. It's a short walk from the Camino - about 1km - but you can organise to be picked up and dropped off as well as taxied into Lavacolla and back for dinner. It's a beautiful and relaxing place to stay and reflect before finishing your walk.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Hi,

My wife and I are planning a short Camino from Sarria in mid May. (Please note we prefer private accommodation)

On the CF last year I tended to book 1 or 2 days ahead. And for the 'final 100' I actually booked all my stops 3-4 days before hitting Sarria. Many I called ahead. But I used booking.com a lot as well. It worked really well.

I'm starting to look at small hotels now. On Booking.com
And many are already booked.

I use booking a lot and I can tell you that this year is crazy. I started booking for my May Camino last November.
Now I have clients wanting me to book rooms for them in May, and prices have doubled, tripled, and even quadrupled.
Places are full.

One thing I will tell you that might help is to go ahead and book the rooms now.
Then go back every day or two, because some travel agencies book blocks of rooms, then release them as the time nears.
The other thing you can do is contact the hotels directly via email and ask their price.
I do that at most of my lodgings now. I pay a lower price because they don't have to pay booking.
I have also found (often) that rooms ARE available when booking says they are not.

Lastly, yes, some lodgings don't release rooms until after the first of the year, but by now, rooms are showing if they have them for May.

 

[t2andreo]

You have several postings in reply to your original post from VERY experienced pilgrims. All provide extremely helpful and accurate information and suggestions.

For pilgrims planning to do the final stretch from Sarria I recommend booking as early as you know your starting date from Sarria. You may have to manage your time, pace, and stopping points before this to satisfy the reservations you made.

But, as the final 111 Km is the most traveled bit of the main Camino Frances route, private bookings will be the most difficult to obtain. This is particularly important this year as it is a special "Jubilee Year" (declared by Pope Francis) and will attract more attention.

I learned from several years experience with booking.com that they do not control 100% of the available rooms. Usually, the property gives them 'x' out of 'n' number of their rooms to make available online. That is why it is always advisable to contact the property directly if booking.com returns a sold out message. They usually, but not always, will have rooms they control locally.

I use two methods to reach out in advance:

1. Using Google Translate and e-mail. I send an e-mail message to the property seeking to rent a room for specific dates. I send this direct request as soon as I can. Again, use the translator to have a back-and-forth dialog. I have done this as early as Refuge Orisson at the beginning of the Camino Frances.

2. When you are on Camino, have the proprietor at a place you are staying, who may speak some English, call ahead to make the booking for you directly. It is easy for them to do this. I have never had someone refuse to place a call. Sometimes, I will ask them to call two or three days ahead in succession to ensure I get reservations.

As regards #2, I also have a script in Spanish saved on my iPhone asking the person where I am staying if they would kindly call (provide name and phone number on a piece of paper) to make a reservation for me for (date) for (number of nights).

I simply show this Spanish message to the desk person, and have always had good results. Sometimes the place they call will truly be booked solid. In that case, the person placing the call should ask for leads for other places in town, or nearby. Proceed as appropriate.

You need to remain flexible. Sometimes the best you can do for private accommodation is to book a place a few kilometers off the main route. Sometimes, they will come and fetch you, and return you to that point the next morning. Sometimes you need to get a taxi. Taxis in Spain cost about one Euro per kilometer, on average.

As regards asking someone to call a taxi, I have yet another saved Spanish script that I can show a cafe or tienda proprietor or anyone around who speaks Spanish well enough to call for a taxi to take me to (location). Again, this has never failed me. It is also a good reason to carry a small notepad and pen...

I hope this helps.

 

[Robo]

I can also confirm that the hotels don't release all rooms to booking.com. Depending on the size of the place, the proprietors have to agree that they will leave a certain number of rooms available just for booking. That means they run the risk of filling up their non-booking rooms and being stuck with booking.com rooms being empty. But I think the situation is usually the reverse -- the booking.com rooms are all filled while the hotel itself still has rooms available.



Robo, I have a very cheap Spanish calling card and can call Spain for about 3 cents a minute, so I'm happy to make a few calls for you, I'll PM you. Buen camino, Laurie

Very kind of you Laurie. I'll see how we go and if we need some assistance will certainly call you

 

[Anniesantiago]

t2andreo is absolutely correct that booking.com does not always know how many rooms are available.
There have been many times when I needed one more room, and the booking website showed them as full.
I emailed the property and secured the extra room.

The other thing I"ll caution about regarding booking.com is whether or not you are going to get twin beds or a "matrimonial" full sized bed.
More than once, I've booked, asking for twin beds.
In fact, often the website will ask you to give your preference.
In Madrid a couple of years ago, I booked twin beds for Joe and I (we are only friends, not married, not partners)
When we showed up it was a matrimonial bed.
I like him, but not THAT much!
We had specifically asked for two beds.
She just shrugged.
I happened to see a roll up bed in the hall and asked for it.
They complied, but that was an uncomfortable situation.

 

[Cathryn]

Ok now you've got me concerned. I'm starting from Roncesvalles either the 27th or 28th of March. Are the munis and albs also in danger of being full, or only the privates as Robo first asked? I don't want to book ahead and be committed way in advance as to how far I'll get. Also, I'm planning to be in Pamplona before hand for Easter; has anyone been there before for holy week? And, I missed the Pope "declaring" a Jubilee year; can someone direct me to an article explaining this? And to anyone whose Camino may overlap mine: I look forward to meeting you!!

Buen Camino!

 

[Robo]

Ok now you've got me concerned. I'm starting from Roncesvalles either the 27th or 28th of March. Are the munis and albs also in danger of being full, or only the privates as Robo first asked? I don't want to book ahead and be committed way in advance as to how far I'll get. Also, I'm planning to be in Pamplona before hand for Easter; has anyone been there before for holy week? And, I missed the Pope "declaring" a Jubilee year; can someone direct me to an article explaining this? And to anyone whose Camino may overlap mine: I look forward to meeting you!!

Buen Camino!

DON'T PANIC. We might cause a 'stampede'

Let me put this in perspective.........

I am ONLY walking the final 100 this year. That section at popular times is always busy... I was just surprised that availability seemed low already, and as others have suggested, many places probably haven't released all their room yet.

Most people don't book ahead as far as I know. Very few that I met did so.
But you might just need to apply some simple tips that the more experienced on here always suggest.

Stay in intermediate places, not the main 'stage' stopping places. Be prepared to not get your first choice of stopping place etc.

If you want the flexibility of 'staying flexible' in terms of where you stay, then you need to be flexible

NOTE

The only reason I am booking everything in advance, is that my wife who is walking with me this year is NOT a flexible person. At all

If she is not sure where we are sleeping or where we will eat, or unsure of how far we are walking today........she will freak out. And I will have a miserable time !
Unfortunately......I'm serious

Walking on my own, I really wouldn't stress at all....... there is always a bed............somewhere.

I am merely implementing a sanity saving, stress reduction plan, for very selfish reasons. So that we can both enjoy our walk, and me in particular Well her too of course ...

 

[Mark Lee]

Ok now you've got me concerned. I'm starting from Roncesvalles either the 27th or 28th of March. Are the munis and albs also in danger of being full, or only the privates as Robo first asked? I don't want to book ahead and be committed way in advance as to how far I'll get. Also, I'm planning to be in Pamplona before hand for Easter; has anyone been there before for holy week? And, I missed the Pope "declaring" a Jubilee year; can someone direct me to an article explaining this? And to anyone whose Camino may overlap mine: I look forward to meeting you!!

Buen Camino!

Calma, calma. You will be okay. There will always be a place to stay, especially that early in the Camino season.
Honestly, don't sweat the small stuff.

 

[t2andreo]

Cathryn:

This year, because of the Jubilee Year proclamation from Pope Frances (also referred to as The Year of Mercy), traffic will be up all along the Camino routes all year, but from Easter through the end of August the traffic increase will likely be significant. Usually, this off-year uptick is relegated to the formal Holy Years. Those Holy Years occur when Santiago's feast day falls on Sunday. The last one was in 2010, and the next one will occur in 2021.

Because the Camino Frances remains the most popular route and serves as the spine or backbone to many of the Camino routes, the final stretch from Sarria to Santiago is the most impacted by any uptick in traffic. The "best" way to manage the crowds generally is to avoid them. The best way to avoid them is to NOT be where they are on the same day. You can do your Camino on another, less popular route, or manage your schedule to avoid the worst of the crowding.

For example, I am doing the Camino de Madrid starting in early April, well after Easter week. But, by the time I get to Sarria, it will be late April and "the season" will have begun. I will be competing with commercial pilgrims and chaperoned student groups for reservable bed space. As regards obtaining private sleeping space, I will likely be fine until I hit Sahagun. This is where the Madrid route joins with the main route, the Camino Frances. Then I too will be competing for bed space with all the other pilgrims headed to Santiago.

But, and following my own advice, I already booked my hotel in Madrid. I plan to start making reservations along the Madrid route as I can over the next few weeks. Once I can better establish my timing, I will start making the reservations for the second section, Sahagun to Santiago. I will try to plan to arrive at Sarria on a Thursday and get out of town on Friday. This affects each following daily stage. As I make reservations, I may have to adjust my dates to ensure I can find a room. That is the reality of the increased popularity of the Camino.

Your goal in making advance reservations is to avoid the proverbial "pig in the python" keep it in front of you or behind you. But, DO avoid it, even if it means hunkering down where you are for an additional day or two to allow the hoard to pass through.

This means sliding your stay at a popular spot like Pamplona to avoid a feast day or holiday, or even a weekend. If you are planing to be at Pamplona for Easter, I sincerely hope you already made reservations. While Mark Lee (ABOVE) is correct that "there will always be a place to stay..." well let me just say that there are places and there are places... Many people would not choose to stay in some places that might be the only places available. So, it is most critical to book in advance at the major transportation nodes, where people join the Camino or start their Camino. These locations include: Pamplona, Logrono, Burgos, Sahagun, Leon, Astorga, Ponferrada, and Sarria. If I left one out, sorry about that. These places are starting nodes because they all have good train, bus, and in some cases air connections from elsewhere in Spain or Europe.

Before Sarria, along the remainder of the Camino Frances from Roncesvalles to Sarria, one of the interesting phenomena is the significant increase in interest in the Camino following the 2010 release of THAT movie, "The Way." Starting in 2011 and 2012, there was an increase in pilgrims having their Camino assisted, supported or just facilitated, by travel agencies, tour guide services, mochila (backpack) transport services, and even some of our colleague here in the Forum.

The net result is that these, "commercial" pilgrims, wind up "descending" on a routine Camino daily stage stop and consume much of the available private bed space. In some cases the pilgrims traveling on arranged itineraries walk in, arriving in a staggered manner, to rooms that were booked in advance for them. In other instances, these groups show up in a van or a large bus/coach.

Public (non-private) albergues will not usually take coach riders, so they are relegated to private lodging. These pilgrims frequently have medical, mobility, or other limitations that prevent them from doing a Camino as most of us do, solo with rucksacks carrying everything we need for a month or so on our backs. However, the bottom line is the same. The "commercial" pilgrims compete with the individual pilgrims who desire to stay in private accommodation.

I support anyone doing the Camino in any way they can. Practically speaking, it simply means that the solo pilgrim must come up with an effective management plan to get beds. This means:

• Booking in advance, use www.booking.com or another online service,
• Following the advice I offered in my separate post above,
• STAYING FLEXIBLE, adjusting your expectation as you continue on your Camino, and
• Seriously consider managing your arrival at and departure from a transportation node city (mentioned above) or large town to avoid arriving on a Friday or Saturday night, and similarly avoid departing on a Saturday or Sunday morning.

Doing these things will avoid conflict and help ensure that you can find a private bed.

In a worst case scenario, see Mark Lee's post above. You may not like the only available bed, but NO ONE is made to sleep rough (outdoors). In extremis, you may just need to part all expectations at the door.

I hope this helps.

 

[Anamya]

I agree with the above comments.

There are other similar websites you can try, less well-known/well-used than booking.com.

www.travelrepublic.com
www.lowcostholidays.com
www.venere.com
www.trivago.co.uk
www.laterooms.com
www.hotels4u.com

I've used most of these at some point over the past few years, and usually check them against each other for the best prices.

I'd add www.agoda.com to that list.

Normally each of the websites only manages a reduced amount of rooms. I often go to Booking, Agoda ou Trip Advisor, find the direct link to the hotel's website and book from there. Bigger chance of getting a room ^^

Good luck on your Camino, I hope you both have an enjoyable and stress-free trip.

 

[Lachance]

I'm only doing St Jean to Santa Domingo this time and trying to avoid Brierley stages. Have found several places booked out, both on booking.com and direct approach. This is for mid-late April. Couldn't pass up the chance to stay in a parador in S. Domingo but the paradores site showed NO availability for dates that were on booking.com. Might be some kind of glitch.

 

[plainlost]

you guys are starting to worry me. I am going at the beginning of the season but I will be in Sarria at the end of June so *Sigh* I will not worry until I have a feel for how I am progressing. And as soon as I book my flight I will reserve with Corazon Puro and Orisson but that is a far as I have planned.. I dont know what I dont know!

 

[Lachance]

...
You need to remain flexible. Sometimes the best you can do for private accommodation is to book a place a few kilometers off the main route.
...
As regards asking someone to call a taxi, I have yet another saved Spanish script that I can show a cafe or tienda proprietor or anyone around who speaks Spanish well enough to call for a taxi to take me to (location)....

Hi Tom,
I'm just doing St Jean to Santo Domingo, consulting gronze and miam miam dodo. They seem to be comprehensive wrt places just off the main route, of which there are not many on this stretch. Is there any other reference source?
For taxis, I have memorised 'me puede pedir un taxi?'. Will this suffice?

 

[Robo]

Hi Tom,
I'm just doing St Jean to Santo Domingo, consulting gronze and miam miam dodo. They seem to be comprehensive wrt places just off the main route, of which there are not many on this stretch. Is there any other reference source?
For taxis, I have memorised 'me puede pedir un taxi?'. Will this suffice?

I found Miam Miam Dodo invaluable. A few times I also asked my host to call a couple of places for the next day, if my first choice was not available. The staff in Hotels and CR were always happy to do this. A lot of Pilgrims must ask....

 

[Robo]

I'm only doing St Jean to Santa Domingo this time and trying to avoid Brierley stages. Have found several places booked out, both on booking.com and direct approach. This is for mid-late April. Couldn't pass up the chance to stay in a parador in S. Domingo but the paradores site showed NO availability for dates that were on booking.com. Might be some kind of glitch.

I stayed in that one. Had to try one at some stage

It was lovely...........but felt a bit odd for some reason
I actually went out to join my 'family' for dinner ..............

Though breakfast was nice http://robscamino.com/10th-of-may/

http://robscamino.com/9th-of-may-en-route-to-santo-domingo/

It's in a perfect location!

 

[t2andreo]

Hi Tom,
I'm just doing St Jean to Santo Domingo, consulting gronze and miam miam dodo. They seem to be comprehensive wrt places just off the main route, of which there are not many on this stretch. Is there any other reference source?
For taxis, I have memorised 'me puede pedir un taxi?'. Will this suffice?

Try: "Por favor, llámeme un taxi." (Please, call me a taxi.)

When? = Cuando?
Now please = Ahora por favor.

As regards booking private accommodations, do try www.booking.com. The Camino seems to be abnormally well represented. Not all properties are listed, but you would be surprised at how many private albergues are listed.

Failing that, try using Google and input a search like "Hotel: near (insert name of village, spain)"

The results usually provide leads to other sites and places.

I hope this helps.

 

[Mark Lee]

On all my Caminos I stayed in a variety of accommodations. Municipal and private albergues. Hotels, pension houses and hostels. Places that ranged in price from 5 Euros to 100 Euros. I have walked from the months of June through September. Never stayed in any place I thought was dodgy and I would decide where I stayed when I got to the town. Heck some days I didn't even know which town I was going to stop in. A few towns/cities I feel are "don't miss" when walking the Camino. Places like Pamplona and Burgos. Don't let the prospect (fear) of lots of pilgrims scare you off from those beautiful cities.
Sure, it will get busy from Sarria to Santiago. My best advice there is try not to arrive in Santiago on a Friday, which means being in Sarria on a Monday. Last Camino I did that and there were a lot of people who time their Camino that way as they want to be in Santiago for the weekeend and back to work on Monday. I ended up staying the night in Monte de Gozo so I could walk into Santiago Saturday morning.
One thing for sure I can recommend when walking the Camino is to let go of all the ridiculous fears and worries we have at home.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

I'm only doing St Jean to Santa Domingo this time and trying to avoid Brierley stages. Have found several places booked out, both on booking.com and direct approach. This is for mid-late April. Couldn't pass up the chance to stay in a parador in S. Domingo but the paradores site showed NO availability for dates that were on booking.com. Might be some kind of glitch.

Hi Lachance, try booking through the Paradores website. They offer discounts for pilgrims, those over 55 (just one of the people staying in the room has to qualify) and younger people. Try to find the phone number and get in touch directly. When I stayed at the Leon Parador - booked thro' Booking.com - on arrival the receptionist said it was a pity I had not contacted them directly as I would have been given the reduced rate.

 

[Lachance]

Hi Lachance, try booking through the Paradores website. They offer discounts for pilgrims, those over 55 (just one of the people staying in the room has to qualify) and younger people. Try to find the phone number and get in touch directly. When I stayed at the Leon Parador - booked thro' Booking.com - on arrival the receptionist said it was a pity I had not contacted them directly as I would have been given the reduced rate.

Hi Seb, I did first try Paradores website hoping for the seniors discount, but the website showed no availability, so I had to get in on booking.com. But thanks for the tip, perhaps a phone call is needed. I know it's ridiculous in this day and age but it seems like a major undertaking to ring Spain from here in faraway Oz. I suppose they would speak English?

 

[Lachance]

One thing for sure I can recommend when walking the Camino is to let go of all the ridiculous fears and worries we have at home.

We're not all big tough ex-marines who are old Camino hands and experienced in travelling to all sorts of out of the way places. I say Vaseline smells! But you've made me happy about booking 2 nights in Pamplona, thanks for that bit.

 

[Lachance]

I stayed in that one. Had to try one at some stage
It was lovely...........but felt a bit odd for some reason

Not hard to imagine reasons. I'm somewhat tentative about rocking up to reception in a backpack all sweaty and dishevelled. But it's at the end of my first Camino, so wth.

 

[Robo]

Not hard to imagine reasons. I'm somewhat tentative about rocking up to reception in a backpack all sweaty and dishevelled. But it's at the end of my first Camino, so wth.

It wasn't rocking up all sweaty with a back pack. They are used to that, and I wasn't the only one.

I just felt uncomfortable with the surroundings I think. It didn't quite 'gel' with the inner journey I was undertaking perhaps?

So I did my washing in the bath, hung it all over the room and went out to find my Camino Amigos

But it was nice to have tried one......

 

[Deleted member 36903]

Hi Seb, I did first try Paradores website hoping for the seniors discount, but the website showed no availability, so I had to get in on booking.com. But thanks for the tip, perhaps a phone call is needed. I know it's ridiculous in this day and age but it seems like a major undertaking to ring Spain from here in faraway Oz. I suppose they would speak English?

I would suggest getting hold of the local phone number of the Paradore and calling them direct just start with Hablas Ingles? and they will put you on to someone who speaks English. Also It might be worth signing up for their Amigos card. Good luck/Buen Camino!

 

[mspath]

I would suggest getting hold of the local phone number of the Paradore and calling them direct just start with Hablas Ingles? and they will put you on to someone who speaks English. Also It might be worth signing up for their Amigos card. Good luck/Buen Camino!

Perhaps this listing in English of all Spanish Paradores will be helpful. http://www.paradores-spain.com/

 

[peregrina2000]

All Paradores have an email address, it's there somewhere on their web pages, and you can contact them directly that way. I would use the official site, rather than that of a booking agent if you want to contact them directly. http://www.parador.es/en

And writing in English will absolutely not be a problem. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Tia Valeria]

We have found that hotels are willing to take e-mail bookings but do ask for confirmation when we reach Spain, and again a couple of days before arrival. This is to make sure that we are 'on schedule' and intend to honour the booking.
Please, please if you cannot take up your booking make sure that they are informed so that they can let some-one else have the room. Failure by some pilgrims to do this only makes it difficult for those trying to book afterwards as folk who have been let down can be reluctant to take future distance bookings.
Trust your bookings go well.

 

[Mark Lee]

We're not all big tough ex-marines who are old Camino hands and experienced in travelling to all sorts of out of the way places. I say Vaseline smells! But you've made me happy about booking 2 nights in Pamplona, thanks for that bit.

Ha ha, too cute. By the way, I did get a wee bit nervous on my first CF arriving in SJPdP at about 10:00 pm or so with no reservations and no idea where to go. Probably roamed around for an hour and had just about resigned myself to sleeping on a bench for the night when I saw the light still on in the office at the Central Hotel. I could have kissed the madame when she said she had a room available. I was jet lagged and tired.
I really liked Pamplona. Probably my favorite larger city/town on the Camino. I made it a point to stay there every time. I don't think you will be disappointed.

 

[Irma Terblanche]

Hi,

My wife and I are planning a short Camino from Sarria in mid May. (Please note we prefer private accommodation)

On the CF last year I tended to book 1 or 2 days ahead. And for the 'final 100' I actually booked all my stops 3-4 days before hitting Sarria. Many I called ahead. But I used booking.com a lot as well. It worked really well.

I'm starting to look at small hotels now. On Booking.com
And many are already booked.

So a question for those who use booking.com a lot on the CF...........

Are they appearing to be fully booked because:

1. Hotels don't release rooms to Booking.com until closer to the time? 2-3 weeks before , longer, shorter? I guess the hotel owners want to try to get long term bookings at full rates before using discount sites like booking.com
2. Hotels are genuinely booking out already! Which would be hard to believe. Surely I'm looking at 25 May from Sarria and arrive Santiago 3 June. Yes I know, a very slow ramble! Are those particular dates busy or some reason? I checked public holidays....

What would be a good 'lead time' to start looking at Hotel bookings do you think? 2 months out? One month out?

And before suggesting we merely 'go with the flow' and see what we can find............ My wife with whom I am walking is not at all a 'go with the flow' person

So for my stress levels............and hers; I am booking it all ahead

What about trying to book through airb&b

 

[Hetty]

Hello Robo
I, like your wife, prefer to stay in private accommodations and also like to book in advance. Last year we planned to walk from St Jean de Pied Port to Santiago, booking (through Booking.com) 1-2 days ahead. We got about half way (Castrojerez) and could no longer find accommodations so we returned home.

We are returning in April to pick up where we left off and I now have rooms booked all the way to Santiago. I booked in July - ie 10 months in advance - and found rooms to be scarce towards the end of the Camino. In fact, with a few hotels we got the last room.

I do not want to discourage you but I do believe that rooms are legitimately booked well in advance.

 

[Mark Lee]

Hello Robo
I, like your wife, prefer to stay in private accommodations and also like to book in advance. Last year we planned to walk from St Jean de Pied Port to Santiago, booking (through Booking.com) 1-2 days ahead. We got about half way (Castrojerez) and could no longer find accommodations so we returned home.

We are returning in April to pick up where we left off and I now have rooms booked all the way to Santiago. I booked in July - ie 10 months in advance - and found rooms to be scarce towards the end of the Camino. In fact, with a few hotels we got the last room.

I do not want to discourage you but I do believe that rooms are legitimately booked well in advance.

No private albergues available?

 

[C clearly]

We got about half way (Castrojerez) and could no longer find accommodations so we returned home.

I am curious what month that was. Did you rely only on booking.com?

 

[Thornley]

Hello Robo
I, like your wife, prefer to stay in private accommodations and also like to book in advance. Last year we planned to walk from St Jean de Pied Port to Santiago, booking (through Booking.com) 1-2 days ahead. We got about half way (Castrojerez) and could no longer find accommodations so we returned home.

We are returning in April to pick up where we left off and I now have rooms booked all the way to Santiago. I booked in July - ie 10 months in advance - and found rooms to be scarce towards the end of the Camino. In fact, with a few hotels we got the last room.

I do not want to discourage you but I do believe that rooms are legitimately booked well in advance.

MIAM MIAM DO DO is very much a better option than booking.com
It is used throughout France and has been in existence on the camino Frances for a "very" long time.
We use both , especially booking .com for the first few night or week but have come to use MMDD once we are into the path.

 

[Thornley]

Not hard to imagine reasons. I'm somewhat tentative about rocking up to reception in a backpack all sweaty and dishevelled. But it's at the end of my first Camino, so wth.

Stay there , they treat you just as well as the GANT mob and dine very close, from front d0or on the left 50m.
When you get the free passes to the museums etc give to the young/tired in the town.

And please mate stay @ Hotel Akerreta , Larrasoana
They take you to a great restr. and collect.This is where the old bloke in the movie [The Way] considered himself a matador.
The rooms are very beautiful indeed and run by a lovely family.
They booked the next 6 days for us from there .

 

[auburnfive]

Santiago on the weekend looks to be very limited, even as far away as September...

 

[alexwalker]

It is always worth checking directly with an accommodation listed by any booking service! Both availabilities and/or prices may differ. Such accommodation pays a fee to that service and thus their stated price on that service link reflects that fee. Furthermore all rooms are not always listed with any service. Thus for the lowest price and/or unlisted room find the accommodation website or telephone and ask directly.

This is very correct.

 

[Thornley]

No private albergues available?

Great question Mark,
If one had MMDD the following is available in Fromista , 26km from Castrojeriz;

A private albergue with 30 places in 3 rooms , not bad considering their situation
A private alberque with 4 chambres for couples
One casa rural with 4 chambres
Three hotels with 36 private chambres
Three Hostels/Restaurants with 31 private chambres

There would be no way booking.com would have this complete list shown on MMDD page 43
The above are outside all other albergues in the town.
The MMDD also lists the e/m address and phone number of the tourisme office which will always have more beds available.

I would never walk a camino without this book if it exists for same.

 

[Kanga]

Accommodation providers only release a limited number of their rooms to booking.com so when that service says the hotel (or whatever) is full, that is not necessarily the case. The contract requires the accommodation provide give booking.com the lowest price for that category of room, but of course there are always other categories... I was advised, even when using booking.com, not to include breakfast as a number of facilities like to give pilgrims a special discount, so they throw in breakfast for free, as they are not allowed to charge other booking.com customers more for the same room.
I think it always pays to telephone direct, provided you have some Spanish. Sometimes a place is indeed full, but they can direct you to somewhere nearby of a similar standard. I have found that generally there is co-operation between hotels and pensions if they are busy.

 

[Thornley]

Accommodation providers only release a limited number of their rooms to booking.com so when that service says the hotel (or whatever) is full, that is not necessarily the case. The contract requires the accommodation provide give booking.com the lowest price for that category of room, but of course there are always other categories... I was advised, even when using booking.com, not to include breakfast as a number of facilities like to give pilgrims a special discount, so they throw in breakfast for free, as they are not allowed to charge other booking.com customers more for the same room.
I think it always pays to telephone direct, provided you have some Spanish. Sometimes a place is indeed full, but they can direct you to somewhere nearby of a similar standard. I have found that generally there is co-operation between hotels and pensions if they are busy.

Agree completely Kanga telephone direct and use the people in Spain.
As i previously said the people in the beautiful Hotel , used in The Way for all accommodation , looked after our next 6 days with 3 of those 6 their recommendations.
MMDD or local advice once on the ground.

 

[erwin braak]

Hi,

My wife and I are planning a short Camino from Sarria in mid May. (Please note we prefer private accommodation)

On the CF last year I tended to book 1 or 2 days ahead. And for the 'final 100' I actually booked all my stops 3-4 days before hitting Sarria. Many I called ahead. But I used booking.com a lot as well. It worked really well.

I'm starting to look at small hotels now. On Booking.com
And many are already booked.

So a question for those who use booking.com a lot on the CF...........

Are they appearing to be fully booked because:

1. Hotels don't release rooms to Booking.com until closer to the time? 2-3 weeks before , longer, shorter? I guess the hotel owners want to try to get long term bookings at full rates before using discount sites like booking.com
2. Hotels are genuinely booking out already! Which would be hard to believe. Surely I'm looking at 25 May from Sarria and arrive Santiago 3 June. Yes I know, a very slow ramble! Are those particular dates busy or some reason? I checked public holidays....

What would be a good 'lead time' to start looking at Hotel bookings do you think? 2 months out? One month out?

And before suggesting we merely 'go with the flow' and see what we can find............ My wife with whom I am walking is not at all a 'go with the flow' person

So for my stress levels............and hers; I am booking it all ahead

Hello,
I start the Camino Primitivo 26 May.
I walked the french camino and the North (end Oviedo). Because I don t want to book in advance I will take a shelt Terra Nova Laser Competetion. So walk peacyfull and not in a hurry. The weight is 1 kg!. Buen Camino

 

[njhess]

Hi everyone, this thread has been most enlightening but I must say, I am digging deep for creative solutions to this issue. I recently started rebooking to adjust my itinerary in May (7 - 22; Astorga to Leon) to avoid Santiago on the weekend and get to Madrid for a couple nights. As a result, although I was able to book several weeks ago, I am now having major difficulties finding private rooms. I am traveling with my niece who has never been to Europe and this is an important trip, so I want to get it right. I will follow advice posted here and call directly (what is most economical - maybe Viber or similar intl call app?)

The area around Portomarin and Palas de Rei are my main problems. One solution emerging in my head is to walk into town, pick up a rental car and simply drive to a location for the night. I know the area well (but this is my first Camino!)

What I like about this back up plan is that I can keep trying as I get closer to our trip and hope for cancellations. Yes, I cancelled all my originally booked rooms, so I am hoping others will follow suite when their plans change.

Saludos and Buen Camino!

nj

 

[GettingThere]

Hi everyone, this thread has been most enlightening but I must say, I am digging deep for creative solutions to this issue. I recently started rebooking to adjust my itinerary in May (7 - 22; Astorga to Leon) to avoid Santiago on the weekend and get to Madrid for a couple nights. As a result, although I was able to book several weeks ago, I am now having major difficulties finding private rooms. I am traveling with my niece who has never been to Europe and this is an important trip, so I want to get it right. I will follow advice posted here and call directly (what is most economical - maybe Viber or similar intl call app?)

The area around Portomarin and Palas de Rei are my main problems. One solution emerging in my head is to walk into town, pick up a rental car and simply drive to a location for the night. I know the area well (but this is my first Camino!)

What I like about this back up plan is that I can keep trying as I get closer to our trip and hope for cancellations. Yes, I cancelled all my originally booked rooms, so I am hoping others will follow suite when their plans change.

Saludos and Buen Camino!

nj

Hi @njhess
I would say keep trying - it sounds as though some places are booking up early, but calling direct is definitely worth trying, or emailing if the place has a website with contact details. Your backup plan to look outside the main towns is a good one - although you may find that places within a few km of the Camino will have a free pick-up and drop-off service, which can be arranged with the owner direct. Failing that, a taxi would probably be an easier option than hiring a car just to get to overnight accommodation, as some of the smaller places won't have car rental services but taxis are very readily available and quite cheap as there is so much competition.

If you continue to have difficulty finding somewhere in Palas de Rei, you could try this place: http://www.casaroan.com/ - we stayed there when we wanted somewhere between Portomarin and Palas de Rei and everywhere was full - they are a few km off the path but will pick you up and drop you back at the same spot the next morning, for no charge if you contact them. They are on booking.com, but even if that shows them not to have room it would be worth calling. Beautiful old stone farmhouse and wonderful food!

Buen Camino

 

[Thornley]

Hi everyone, this thread has been most enlightening but I must say, I am digging deep for creative solutions to this issue. I recently started rebooking to adjust my itinerary in May (7 - 22; Astorga to Leon) to avoid Santiago on the weekend and get to Madrid for a couple nights. As a result, although I was able to book several weeks ago, I am now having major difficulties finding private rooms. I am traveling with my niece who has never been to Europe and this is an important trip, so I want to get it right. I will follow advice posted here and call directly (what is most economical - maybe Viber or similar intl call app?)

The area around Portomarin and Palas de Rei are my main problems. One solution emerging in my head is to walk into town, pick up a rental car and simply drive to a location for the night. I know the area well (but this is my first Camino!)

What I like about this back up plan is that I can keep trying as I get closer to our trip and hope for cancellations. Yes, I cancelled all my originally booked rooms, so I am hoping others will follow suite when their plans change.

Saludos and Buen Camino!

nj

* Do you mean Leon to Astorga ???
** Why is May 7 -- 22 in related to above which is only a 3 day walk??
Santiago will be no different whichever day you arrive , just a beautiful full filling feeling.

Creative solutions ??
Why not just walk 400km and see how you are going then NJ
Somewhere on the way you will find that the tourist office is a bit ahead of Expedia/Booking.com
Somewhere on the way , especially if you start in France [STJPP] you will find a person who has MMDD , i suggest you buy it.

Viber or similar.????? .................just MMDD and get the locals to ring for you.
Maybe you will find when a local hotel/pension owner rings ahead " No Pedro we are full but around the corner there is a newly opened pension ,or a lovely private home , both highly recommended and their numbers are........."

The Camino is a very simple exercise over a five week period , please don't make it a uni course [ about an arts degree i mean]
Just go with the flow and don't worry too much about your niece who will be in the company of 100's of fellow young people each day from 10-20 countries around the world and all having a wonderful /hard / stressful / beautiful time.
I think you are complicating things unnecessarily.

Drop the car from your itinerary immediately and just make sure you take paw paw cream for the feet after a good days walk.

 

[njhess]

Whoops....I meant Astorga to Santiago. Sorry about that confusion Thornley. What does MMDD stand for? Simple? Simple takes a lot of preparation. And I tend towards go-with-the-flow. I do not wish my hosts to do work on my behalf when I can do it myself. However, I have asked those who are booked to give me suggestions.

Thank you "Getting There", I am on it!

 

[James R B]

Whoops....I meant Astorga to Santiago. Sorry about that confusion Thornley. What does MMDD stand for? Simple? Simple takes a lot of preparation. And I tend towards go-with-the-flow. I do not wish my hosts to do work on my behalf when I can do it myself. However, I have asked those who are booked to give me suggestions.

Thank you "Getting There", I am on it!

MMDD is MIAM MIAM DO DO.It's a guidebook I'm thinking about getting even though I have the Brierley guide too.

 

[Thornley]

Whoops....I meant Astorga to Santiago. Sorry about that confusion Thornley. What does MMDD stand for? Simple? Simple takes a lot of preparation. And I tend towards go-with-the-flow. I do not wish my hosts to do work on my behalf when I can do it myself. However, I have asked those who are booked to give me suggestions.

If you want me to list the villages within 5km either side of Sarria and Palas de Rei with private chambres and meal provided NJ just say yes and i will send a private e/m as the list is extensive.


Thank you "Getting There", I am on it!

If you want me to send a private e/m for accommodation in Sarria and Palas de Rei and also within 5 km of each , all with private chambres [ double] and if in a smaller village whether food is provided just say yes in a reply NJ
The list is extensive in MMDD

MMDD is MIAM MIAM DO DO.It's a guidebook I'm thinking about getting even though I have the Brierley guide too.

In 2007 we came across a Merchant Banker [ President of CARE France ] and his wife [ the sister of the President of France]
You would not meet more down to earth people anywhere.
They had walked from Paris and walked with a donkey for CARE and averaged only 4km/hour so we saw them often.
We stayed wherever and they would appear after lunch or dinner for a drink in the villages.
They introduced us to MMDD and pointed out homes 100m from the path and since 07 we have never used another book if MMDD is applicable to the current camino.
Written only in french but a 10 year old could follow because there is no words on the walk , only accommodation , and each albergue/home/pension/hotel/hostal is broken up into how many rooms and people per room .
A great book James please buy mate.

 

[Kanga]

Miam Miam Dodo for the Camino Frances is available to buy from Amazon France here. It lists all accommodation within 5 km of the path, shown on diagramatic maps.

 

[njhess]

Thanks Thornley, James and Kanga. I will order the book right now. And will stop worrying too. :~)

 

[Lachance]

Stay there , they treat you just as well as the GANT mob and dine very close, from front d0or on the left 50m.
And please mate stay @ Hotel Akerreta , Larrasoana .

Maaate (reminder, soy mujer - but we can still be mates) I started a thread about getting into Hotel Akerreta. I must have driven them nuts. But today, oh joy, an email from Joxemari confirming.

GANT?

 

[Thornley]

Maaate (reminder, soy mujer - but we can still be mates) I started a thread about getting into Hotel Akerreta. I must have driven them nuts. But today, oh joy, an email from Joxemari confirming.

GANT?

Shirts normally in Henry Bucks or David Jones , if they exist in the second city......lol
However in Portugal [where they are made ] or Spain where they are more readily available then Ralph Lauren most wear.
Big sizes which you only get from european makers............can't shop in Asia mate.

 

[Thornley]

Maaate (reminder, soy mujer - but we can still be mates) I started a thread about getting into Hotel Akerreta. I must have driven them nuts. But today, oh joy, an email from Joxemari confirming.

GANT?

Make sure they take you to dinner on the main road , they drop you off and pick up.
Have a good red and a few beers before sitting down.

 

[Lachance]

Shirts normally in Henry Bucks or David Jones , if they exist in the second city......lol
However in Portugal [where they are made ] or Spain where they are more readily available then Ralph Lauren most wear.
Big sizes which you only get from european makers............can't shop in Asia mate.

The shirts are called Gant here at headquarters. I thought GANT was some new trendy acronym. You're right about Asian sizes though. Not so sure about European. A full sized person needs American brands. Ralph Lauren (né Lifschitz) is American.

 

[MaxGary]

Hi,

My wife and I are planning a short Camino from Sarria in mid May. (Please note we prefer private accommodation)

On the CF last year I tended to book 1 or 2 days ahead. And for the 'final 100' I actually booked all my stops 3-4 days before hitting Sarria. Many I called ahead. But I used booking.com a lot as well. It worked really well.

I'm starting to look at small hotels now. On Booking.com
And many are already booked.

So a question for those who use booking.com a lot on the CF...........

Are they appearing to be fully booked because:

1. Hotels don't release rooms to Booking.com until closer to the time? 2-3 weeks before , longer, shorter? I guess the hotel owners want to try to get long term bookings at full rates before using discount sites like booking.com
2. Hotels are genuinely booking out already! Which would be hard to believe. Surely I'm looking at 25 May from Sarria and arrive Santiago 3 June. Yes I know, a very slow ramble! Are those particular dates busy or some reason? I checked public holidays....

What would be a good 'lead time' to start looking at Hotel bookings do you think? 2 months out? One month out?

And before suggesting we merely 'go with the flow' and see what we can find............ My wife with whom I am walking is not at all a 'go with the flow' person

So for my stress levels............and hers; I am booking it all ahead

 

[MaxGary]

Hi Robo,
My husband and I walked from SJPP to SdC last year. There is some accommodation listed in the Brierley book, however try looking at accommodation near where you want to go, we googled villages close to the Camino and rang for accommodation, the owners of the accommodation were only too pleased to pick us up and return us the following morning to pick up where we left off. Enjoy yourselves. We can't wait to walk the Camino again. Buen Camino. Maxine & Gary

 

[t2andreo]

Further to my last post, and elaborating on the many good suggestions made by others, allow me to relate my current experience. This year, I start from Madrid on 7 April. After a stay with friends near Sahagun, about two weeks later, I will continue on the second half of the Camino Frances to Santiago, for about 16 days, with a planned arrival in the first week of May.

I started by using www.booking.com to flesh out my planned stays in hostals, or hotels as necessary. I use them because I have "genius" level status, which gets me a discount on bookings. When I could not reserve the dates I wanted, according to my itinerary, I moved to Plan B. Plan B works as follows:

1. Using booking.com, I altered one or two dates to get myself away from the wave of pilgrims leaving Leon and Sarria. At Sarria, it meant staying a second night to allow the pilgrim "wave" to get well ahead of me. At Leon, it meant skipping downtown Leon and booking a room just beyond Leon, at La Virgen del Camino. I will either walk through or, depending on weather time of day and fatigue, I may hop a bus. I've been to Leon for three-day stays, twice on Camino. So, I am not missing anything.

2. Despite altering stay dates at major transportation and starting places, I am still finding problems obtaining rooms through booking.com or ANY OTHER available online reservation site. So, I resorted to sending e-mail (in Spanish) directly to each property I was interested in. About half of the properties have not yet answered my e-mails, even to say sorry we are full that day. Now it is going on three days. The other half all replied promptly and in the negative "completo."

3. So, I was down to only two outstanding Camino Frances locations, where properties I contacted directly failed to reply to my e-mails. I started by broadening my "net," Sending e-mails to multiple properties. Still, no joy, no replies.

4. Finally, to book a place to sleep, I was compelled to alter my focus a couple of Km up or down the road. I prefer a place further DOWN the Way, closer towards Santiago. It just makes more sense to me. I can buy needed supplies passing through the larger town, before I get to the likely more remote place beyond the town.

In BOTH cases, Rabanal and Arzua, I was able to find alternative housing, outside the town. So, I have a very basic room with shared bath in Foncebaddon (just past Rabanal), and a palatial pazo outside Arzua that requires taking a taxi to get to. If I ever hear back from the multiple properties at either of these sites, I can alter my plans in future.

My point in laying this out is to drive home several points:

1. The Camino is getting busier, whatever the reason. I am traveling on the Camino Frances in the second half of April, normally not a very busy time, it is a "hip-season' time. There is usually quite a bit of rain and snow is common at elevation. Nonetheless, this year, for the first time, I am having problems finding advance reservations either online, or by direct e-mail contact. I've done this three times before. So, none of this is new to me. But, this year is different than my three past Caminos. The room pickings are getting sparse earlier in the season.

2. At Portomarin, Rabanal and Arzua, given the available information, I am fairly convinced that group bookings are the culprit. There are a limited number of reservable hostal or hotel rooms available. Reservable (usually private) albergues remain available. But these lodgings are not commonly desired by tour, student, or other led or formally organized groups. I believe I am not receiving even a simple "no" reply, because the proprietors are holding the rooms until they hear about a potential group booking for those dates. Of course, I cannot verify this conjecture. However, I was informed a few days ago by a place at Portomarin I contacted directly by e-mail, that I have stayed at twice before and liked a lot, that they were fully booked with groups during my alternative dates...I gave them a spread of three potential days. So, I extend that 'accidental truth telling' to the other "choke" locations that are also Brierley guide stage stops. You can draw your own conclusions...

3. You must be flexible. Shift your starting or arrival dates. Alter your expectation of what might be available. Consider staying a second night if it affects "downstream" reservation ability, placing the pilgrim "wave" ahead or behind you.

4. Finally, check back from time to time. People do cancel reservations and rooms do open up after the fact. You might get lucky. This is something I do even once I start walking. Anecdotally, this is perhaps the single best reason for using a smart phone.

In closing, I suggest that the days of simply arriving at a hostal or hotel or pension and asking for a room for the night are done and over, at least on the major routes, like the Camino Frances. You might get lucky on occasion, but the only bed space that may be available on a casual walk-up are the public albergues.

I hope this helps.

 

[Tia Valeria]

If you are changing bookings it is worth making sure that the new booking is accepted before cancelling the original! Not so much a problem if amending a booking. This works on booking.com. If using venere.com be aware that you cannot amend a booking - we 'double booked' last year to be sure of a room and then cancelled the original booking.

Our impression is that places generally are harder to book this year - we have bookings along the Norte and Primitivo, but 'off-Camino'. This is not a problem as we will be travelling by car but could be more difficult for walking pilgrims. We are glad we walked when it was easy to book just a day ahead, if at all.