The Camino Is Not For Everyone

[Rebekah Scott]

I made that categorical statement in another thread, and a wise moderator suggested we take it elsewhere so as to not derail the subject under discussion there.

Still, by popular demand, I will explain myself.

The first part is a no-brainer: There are some people who simply are not cut out for long-distance hikes, physically or mentally. A 700 km. walk, or even the minimum requirement of 100 km., would be detrimental to their health. They would quickly fall ill or hurt themselves if they attempted it.

Inflexible people might think twice about walking the camino.
Some people do not get on well in uncontrolled environments. The idea of coping with other languages, strange food and water, money and beds and bathrooms is just too much for them. A guided tour is as far from their comfort zone as they are willing to go.

Some do not appreciate people of other cultures, colors, or beliefs. They feel compelled to speak out against people who behave or represent things that make them uncomfortable.

Some people can´t handle discomfort, inconvenience, or unmet expectations. When faced with any, they complain, rage, sulk, or behave in ways designed to spread their misery.

Then there are people whose economic or social positions bar them from camino-walking. 150,000 people per year seems like a lot of pilgrims, but that´s a pretty small percentage of the whole world´s population. I daresay the majority of humanity would find a pilgrimage across Spain is just bizarre, or just not their cup of tea. And that´s OK by me.

The Camino de Santiago is not for everyone. Or perhaps it is better said, Not everyone is for the Camino de Santiago.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

ditto 8)

 

[tyrrek]

I agree that some people might hate the experience, especially if they were forced into it by a partner etc and weren't really enthusiastic themselves.

However I hope this thread doesn't put inexperienced walkers off the Camino. One of the great things about it is the fact that many of us are novice walkers who have never done anything else like it in our lives! That makes the achievement all the greater when you arrive at wherever you're aiming for.

Buen Camino!

 

[wayfarer]

The camino is like a slice of life, you meet the good, the bad, and the pain in the buts, but I would not say it is not for everybody.
Pieces put it perfectly in the other thread...

The Camino is for those who choose to walk it, regardless....

 

[Anniesantiago]

What Reb said...

 

[FrancesK]

The Camino is for those who choose to walk it, regardless....

Absolutely agreed.

People change, grow and learn on the camino so I would suggest that those groups of people you've identified are perhaps exactly the type of people that SHOULD do the camino (if they have chosen to try!!).

 

[annakappa]

I completely agree with Rebekah. I guess that of the loads of our friends and relations that we have talked about our various Camino's to, perhaps 2 have shown interest, saying 'I would love to....but'
Then there are the ones who start off, spurned by people like us, who somehow, for some often unexplainable reason,the Camino has made an incredible mark on our lives. Some have seen The Way and remained anxious to repeat the experience, etc.etc.
Most definitely, the Camino is not for everyone. On the Forum, we are limited to reading the comments of a very small portion of Pilgrims conversant in English. A few have commented on their disillusion, but how many more out there have not enjoyed their experience? Anne

 

[mralisn]

I value this forum for this exact way of thinking. The openness and honesty are appreciated. There is much more out there than what appears. I love everything about the Camino, but I'll never assume this state of mind is for everyone.

 

[crad80]

I totally agree!!!

 

[scruffy1]

There is entirely too much agreement on this subject, so allow me to introduce a dissenting voice-sorry but its a Jewish thing. People walk the Camino for a myriad of reasons, reasons which often change before arriving in Santiago and very often several times. But we are all assuming that the goal is to arrive in Santiago and herein lies the obstacle. The forum is filled with inquires-"I have ten days/two weeks where to start/what to see" as but one example. Many many pilgrims come to the Camino in order to enjoy the special feeling which one is granted, the camaraderie experienced with fellow pilgrims, the views the art the beauty of so many places is overwhelming. Santiago is the goal but it should not become the overiding guideline. We have all met people who run through say Astorga or Villafranca del Bierzo without stopping because like Alice's Little White Rabbit no time no time or I haven't done my 35-40 kilometers today so I'll just push on. Alternatively perhaps you have met the two Frenchmen who may be seen yearly walking the Meseta with garbage bags picking up litter left by pilgrims (Now that is an important subject which should be constantly addressed!) or couples who walk very slowly small sections every year and finish the Camino once in five or six years, or the Canadian woman, 89 years old who has favorite stretches of maybe five kilometers between her special albergues who people have known her for years. And truthfully, Santiago can be disappointing, its myriad souvenir stores, itrs overly expensive restaurants and sadly if you have ever attended a pilgrims mass during say Galicia Week why it is full of cellular phones, photographers, noisy meryimakers, and constant ebb and flow of rubbernecking tourist-probably one of the worst masses I personally have ever witnessed. I could go on but won't I will finish with a paraphrase from the Greek poet Constantine Cavafy "Ithica"

"Always keep Santiago (Ithaca) in your mind.
To arrive there is your ultimate goal.
But do not hurry the voyage at all.
It is better to let it last for many years;
and to anchor at the island when you are old,
rich with all you have gained on the way,
not expecting that Ithaca will offer you riches.

Ithaca has given you the beautiful voyage.
Without her you would have never set out on the road.
She has nothing more to give you.

And if you find her poor, Ithaca has not deceived you.
Wise as you have become, with so much experience,
you must already have understood what Ithacas mean.

Scruffy in Jerusalem

 

[soch]

The Camino Is Not For Everyone

Rebekah as ever writes entertainingly and convincingly, and for these very reasons, could be discouraging to some delicate souls from attempting the Camino experience at all.


Surely this cannot be the real intention of someone whose contribution to this Forum is so admirable. The Spirit of the Camino, invites engagement, not avoidance. No-one is more aware of this than Rebekah, consequently I have more than a suspicion that here she is being naughtily provocative, not proscriptive, thus ingeniously highlighting many of those chunnelling along the Camino, and most in need of our help, encouragement, inspiration, solace, insight, and understanding.
:wink:
soch

 

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

where, when and why did it start?

There is entirely too much agreement on this subject

Hi Scruffy,

From my early days on this forum I wondered where the jewish pilgrims were, regarding the origin of the tradition. Now their number is growing and I wonder why; what triggered it?

How do you relate to Jacobus and the myths around him?

My home town has a direct link to SdC and Spain sharing our patron, like more European capital cities do. Since 1572 my national anthem says: "I have always honoured the King of Spain", which I haven't sung since I understood what it means.

On holiday in Israël I learned that many holy places and sacred stories have several locations. Almost all but one, the well at Nazareth, because there was no other well for miles around, so we know where Mary went for water in her early years. Jerusalem was destroyed several times, etc., etc...

The big question is: where, when and why did it start?

Alfred Watkins [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Watkins ] showed us ley lines in Britain, Louis Charpentier [ http://www.librarything.com/author/charpentierlouis - http://www.librarything.com/work/5966994 ] did the same in France and highlighted les Jacques et le mystère de compostelle. Estella no doubt refers to The Milky Way....

Georgiana Goddard King writes in The Way of Saint James [ http://archive.org/details/wayofsaintjames03kinguoft ] (Volume III, p488) that S. James is also 'psychopompous, patron of wayfarers and a chtonian power'.*

The end of our then known Western world was not in Galicia but in Portugal [or was that Galicia at the time?] and there is a Finisterre in Brittany [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finist%C3%A8re ] France too, like more Land's Ends elsewhere.

My first Camino pilgrim friends said: "We don't care if it's true; we make it true by walking."

Best,
Geerτ
The Santiago Enigma
What did you see in that mirror?

miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html
miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic15440.html

Please PM when my questions are too personnal.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopompos : escort newly-deceased souls to the afterlife
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chthonian_planet : Chthonia means "of the Earth" in Greek

 

[Rebekah Scott]

(For the record: Not all the Jews on the camino or on the forum feel it´s important to identify themselves as such. And not all Israelis are Jewish.)

As for the Original Posting:
I am not being provocative. I do like to stimulate discussion and question presumptions, though. I do not set out to discourage potential pilgrims, but I do hope they will take a good look at themselves and their motivations and attitudes before they come here. The camino is not for everyone. It is hard and dirty and sometimes miserable, dull, expensive, rude, foreign, and frustrating. There are tons of Christians here, and Christian architecture and rituals and culture. And there are bedbugs, too. There is NO shame in bailing on it if you find it too much.

If you are hating this and want to head for the beach instead, first sleep on your decision. Make up your mind in the morning. If you still hate it then, get on the next train and go and enjoy yourself! I know a lot of people "stick it out" and finish up and maybe that makes them proud of themselves, but I feel sorry for the other pilgs who have to walk with them.

Just sayin.
Reb.

 

[wayfarer]

(For the record: Not all the Jews on the camino or on the forum feel it´s important to identify themselves as such. And not all Israelis are Jewish.)

As for the Original Posting:
I am not being provocative. I do like to stimulate discussion and question presumptions, though. I do not set out to discourage potential pilgrims, but I do hope they will take a good look at themselves and their motivations and attitudes before they come here. The camino is not for everyone. It is hard and dirty and sometimes miserable, dull, expensive, rude, foreign, and frustrating. There are tons of Christians here, and Christian architecture and rituals and culture. And there are bedbugs, too. There is NO shame in bailing on it if you find it too much.

If you are hating this and want to head for the beach instead, first sleep on your decision. Make up your mind in the morning. If you still hate it then, get on the next train and go and enjoy yourself! I know a lot of people "stick it out" and finish up and maybe that makes them proud of themselves, but I feel sorry for the other pilgs who have to walk with them.

Just sayin.
Reb.

This sound very much like if ones "motivations and attitudes" do not conform to what you think they should be, then its best to not walk the camino.
I and many others who walked with me had bad days, and we "stuck it out" and we were happy and "proud" to finish, but I fail to see why anyone should feel sorry for any of the pilgrims who walked with us because of that.

The reasons stated above not to do the camino all seem a bit superior to me.

 

[William Marques]

It seems clear to me that the Camino is not for everyone. I do not see Rebecca's comments as superior just good common sense.

We wish everyone would give it a go and maybe some people who do not enjoy their first experience of it would gain by sticking it out and find they begin to like it. On the other hand there have been people who got to Santiago and had the guts to say it was not for them, I remember a recent poster got a very hard time from some members because he or she did not enjoy it.

There are plenty of people who are much happier to spend their holidays on the beach and who think we are mad to put ourselves through what we do to to walk across Spain. Who is to say who is right.

 

[wayfarer]

There are plenty of people who are much happier to spend their holidays on the beach and who think we are mad to put ourselves through what we do to to walk across Spain. Who is to say who is right.

On this we agree William, but I still think that everyone who want to walk the camino for whatever reason, or whatever their beliefs should walk it. If they love it great, if they hate it, so what, thats life.
I have enjoyed Rebekah posts since I joined the forum but I disagree with her on this is all. Thats what makes us all different.

 

[LTfit]

I believe that we are missing the point - this is not an issue of who is right or wrong. Nor are we here to judge whether the Camino is for someone or not.

People change, grow and learn on the camino so I would suggest that those groups of people you've identified are perhaps exactly the type of people that SHOULD do the camino (if they have chosen to try!!).

I would drop the "SHOULD" and emphasize "if they have chosen to try".

We all have incredible strength within us, strength that we rarely, if ever, call upon. The Camino is one of those situations that tests us, prodes us, cajoles us to move out of our comfort zone.

I applaud those that chose to try- whatever their motivations may be. It is when we think that we can not go on - but do - that we break through boundaries and find ourselves in unknown territory. And in the process grow and learn, both about ourselves and others.

 

[Pieces]

The real question is: who should decide wether the Camino is for someone or not, the person in question or someone else....

I stated my opinion quite clearly elsewhere....

 

[sillydoll]

A Forum member (who will remain un-named) sent me this PM after walking the Camino.

I had a great time and I'm glad I finished it but I also learned a great deal about HOW I’d do it again - IF I ever do (jury still out on that one).
I loved the beginning going over Pyrenees..I did stay at Orrison (just so I could say I tried an alberque but it’s not for me......) I really did like the evening meal and intros as I kept running into folks I met that first night .
I enjoyed stopping in cities after that ... I used baggage service every day (thank you for the Jacotrans suggestion) and made all hotel reservations by booking.com using my ipad that I am so glad I brought with me.
Pamplona was a zoo---fiesta time!. Loved the hike up to the "metal people" for my Christmas card photo but hike down was not great on knees.
Burgos was nice for touring. LOVED the meseta part - hontanas to carrion (where I got bus to Leon). Stayed at the parador--LOVED that and felt like a real person...met up with my Camino family there--yep 2 Australians including those that I met at hotel akerreta.
I had an opportunity to be "adopted' by an Australian ladies tour group that were walking & touring from Leon to Santiago. 14 ladies--all in the 60-70s age group and VERY friendly. We wound up staying in many of the same hotels so we linked up. What I observed is how much FUN they had as a tour group. A few of the ladies said they walked alone and enjoyed that while others stayed in groups. They all met for breakfast & dinner and discussed their day so they had a built in family.
So what did that show me?................a tour group may be a very nice way to travel for some folks who can't seem to find a Camino "family". I missed mine as I jumped stages so I lost them - so this would have been a nicer way for me to do my first Camino.
Bus & taxi from Leon to ponferrata.....hike up to crux de Ferro--the highlight of my trip as I was walking for a young girl with ALS. The hike down after cross was horrible and I would opt to NOT do that again but get a taxi down and save my knees. I have met quite a few folks who have quit. Old and young. Many tired or blisters or injuries or tired of walking next to busy roads. Nothing like what was portreyed in the movie THE WAY.
Sarria-Santiago was the most beautiful but also the most lonely for me as I lost all of my previous Camino family and now it was very crowded esp. with young folks in large groups.
The last few KMs to Santiago were a HUGE let down. After such lovely walks through the woods then the reality of city life, crowded streets, & cars were way too much too much to handle and I found myself feeling very disappointed.
When I finally found my way to the old quarter and the cathedral that was even more disappointing. It was like Disneyland and way too touristy and I was not prepared for that. I wanted it to be calm like THE WAY and it was just very crowded and I was alone with no buddies to share it with. So I spent my first night in Santiago at a great hotel but alone---not the best way to end my Camino. I took a bus tour of finesterre & muxia where I met up with 2 fellow pilgrims I met on the trail.
So would I do it again? I am not sure. Maybe this is something you do once. Or maybe this was a “test” trip and now I know how I’d prefer to do it in future.
So was I just a Camino tourist or a Camino pilgrim? not sure and not sure I care.

PS: This member spent a year planning her Camino - trawling the forum, asking lots of questions on the forum and in private messages - and hoped that walking the Camino would offer some direction in her life. I don't think it quite turned out like that for her.

 

[fraluchi]

...who should decide whether the Camino is for someone or not...

The "Camino a Santiago" for me is a "Camino de la vida" in a nutshell. Where am I going, why and how? So I started with the latter: planning, budgeting, getting "ready", mentally and physically growing towards the goal. Then came reality: smells, sounds, feelings, reactions, opinions and long stretches of being alone with the winds, temperatures, distances, ups and downs, pains, thirst, hunger, wetness...and yet so many beautiful, memorable moments which ultimately superseded the hardships. The goal is Santiago, trust of afterlife, feeling a hand on your shoulder which presses "yes you can" but leaves you free to meet the challenges in your own way. This "is not for everyone".....maybe yet :?:
Ultreya :arrow:

 

[Tincatinker]

Not for everyone. Succinctly put Reb. And an exquisite point. To list all those that the Camino is "for" would take more bytes than our willing host could ever provide. Your post offers an opportunity for us all to ask the internal question is / was it for me; and the external one, is this - could this - be for my beloved, my friend, my troubled neighbour.

The thread that led to this one arose out of a question that I'll paraphrase as "how do I convince my friend to do the Camino", and an assumption - it was good for me therefore it will be good for them.

The Camino, whereof this forum bears multitudinous witness, can be a profound, beautiful and beneficial experience. And as we all know it can be a heartbreaking, body breaking, and for some profoundly lonely and disappointing experience.

Your thesis does not exclude anyone from embracing the opportunity. It simply reminds us that for some their experience will not be ours and our experience offers no guarantee of theirs.

My experience of the Peaceable is still one of joy and shame. There is no perfect life.

 

[julie]

Nothing in life is for everyone. How boring it would be if we all had the same interests and did the same things as everyone else.

I have shared my Camino experiences with many people. Often you can tell which ones will go on to do a pilgrimage themselves. It's in the eyes and the eagerness in the voice as they probe deeper.

The call of the Camino is very strong and, if you're meant to go, it's not going to go away until you do something about it. If someone doesn't have that almost compulsive urge then perhaps the Camino negatives will be too much and it would be better to walk elsewhere.

I didn't entertain the idea of leaving the Camino but in the church at O Cebreiro felt that I had learnt what I was on the Camino to learn. I often wonder whether people who leave because it isn't for them or because of injury etc have just learnt whatever it is they were there to learn. Even those with very negative impressions have at least learnt what they don't like and what their limits are.

 

[David]

Although I like what Reb has written I think a point may be being missed here. Surely it is Exactly because of those limitations that a Camino can be such an important event in a life. If someone goes on Camino fit, relaxed, time rich, open to all experiences without becoming ruffled .. why, for them it is surely merely a walk in the park?

I thought that pilgrimage, especially taken as it often is at critical points in one's life, was specifically because of those limitations - the limitations that Reb suggests is the reason they shouldn't be doing it. Surely the Camino is about being faced, confronted, with one's own limitations and baggage .... and then .. becoming different, a better human perhaps, even if the change doesn't kick in until a year or so has passed - or am I missing something here? :|

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Language can be very imprecise. This thread was inspired by another in which a Jewish woman was concerned about feeling uncomfortable in a Catholic environment. In that context, "not for everyone" was addressing whether some persons should be excluded. In general, the comments said "no." Anyone who wants to walk a pilgrimage to Santiago should do so. Do not let the narrow minded opinion of some as to what makes a true pilgrim deter you from what can be a life changing experience.

Tangent to that is whether everyone is going to have a good time, therefore "should go." You only have to watch the gathering for the train to Bayonne in St. Jean Pied de Port to get a feel for the answer. There are always pilgrims limping in sandals who set out with high expectations, but were conquered the first day. Even that, though, gives an incomplete answer. Perhaps they "should have gone," if only to find inspiration in their limits.

 

[Pieces]

No David, not missing anything at all.

While some people obviously have a very narrov mind and stong opinions on who are proper pilgrims and who are welcome on the camino the rest of us luckily have the freedom to choose to ignore them...

Whichever of those two choices we make they each speak for themselves...

 

[wayfarer]

Perfectly put as always Pieces, and with an economy of words.

 

[David]

Nice post Pieces ...

as for Jews on the Camino possibly feeling uncomfortable in a 'Catholic' environment .. a while ago I asked the elderly Irish Catholic priest, the senior at Corpus Christi, here in my town, whether heretics were welcome (me being a Unitarian - though I attend Catholic church)

"ah" he responded with a grin and a wink " we have plenty of room, everyone is welcome here" - that good man :wink:

 

[tyrrek]

My experience of the Peaceable is still one of joy and shame. There is no perfect life.

Oh dear! Did you get drunk as well? I ended up telling Reb all about my sordid love life! Buen Camino!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I agree with Pieces, too.

I am NOT judging whether some people should or should not do the Camino. I am trying to say that some people do not find the camino to their liking. If they do not choose to walk, that´s fine -- not everybody "hears the call." If they get part way and decide to stop, that is OK too.

I find it a bit distasteful when a pilgrim decides to pack it in, to hear his fellow pilgrims diss him for doing so -- or worse yet, pity him. It´s his decision. The camino is not for everybody.

 

[David]

good point Reb - good point. Exactly so.

As for those who 'diss' (criticise?) others for how far or not they walk, etc ...why do they do that? Funny thing is, I have never seen this yardstick that some pilgrims measure others by, is it on a Camino marker somewhere? ..... :wink:

 

[wayfarer]

good point Reb - good point. Exactly so.

As for those who 'diss' (criticise?) others for how far or not they walk, etc ...why do they do that? Funny thing is, I have never seen this yardstick that some pilgrims measure others by, is it on a Camino marker somewhere? ..... :wink:

Let him without sin cast the first stone......

I'm afraid I have to admit I am one of those who dissed some fellow pilgrims, they were what we referred to as the busarinos who we met after Saria, they hopped off and on the buses and got their passports stamped all along the way and when we arrived in Santiago they had pride of place at the front of the cathedral. I felt unchristianly agrieved and made my feelings known to my pilgrim family.
I am not perfect..... but I do my best. :arrow:

 

[colinPeter]

No, I don't think it's for everyone. For example, In 2009 we walked with a couple of girls for a number of days. Great "Pilgrims", fun to be with, very social with others every night etc. By the time they got to Navarrete they had decided they didn't want to do this. They didn't seem negative or critical about the Camino, just decided they wanted to do something else in Europe somewhere, so they left the trail at Najera to go and do something else. Of course they may have come back since then however, it wasn't for them at that time. Therefore, I don't urge other people to do it, those who know us are aware that we love it (planning No. 3 next year), I would like to see others do it, but they need to have there own "Camino Call", which I think is part of the process of finding out if it is for you.

 

[Bama Hiker]

This is a good post and one I like being discussed. In preparing for my Camino walk with my brother later in 2013 or early 2014, we have noted many people walking as "tourists on a cheap vacation" rather than as pilgrims on a religious experience. The popularity of the movie "The Way" has brought a large number of recreational walkers and tourists to the Camino, who are changing the experience from a journey of Christian faith into some other type of tailored commercialized hiking vacation. We have already seen the decline of our Christian Christmas holiday into something completely the opposite of the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. We are having to plan to walk in either the October-November or March-April time frames to avoid the "tourists." The statistics from the Church in Santiago show the increase in the number of pilgrims who walk for "other" non-religious reasons. We know it will be a bit more difficult to walk the Camino during these times due to the weather and the closure of many alberques. We just hope the Camino experience doesn't degrade into some type of cheap atheist vacation destination. Thanks for the post!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The statistics from the Church in Santiago show the increase in the number of pilgrims who walk for "other" non-religious reasons.

2004* 5.61% "No religioso"
2008 8.69%
2009 9.18%
2010* 5.07%
2011 6.14%
* Holy Years

Actually, the non-religious pilgrims last year were about the same as in the Holy Years, years when Catholic pilgrims increase. I am not sure that the statistics confirm that the camino is becoming a secular, tourist activity. The number of non-religious pilgrims this year may not increase beyond the historical norm, if religious pilgrims were motivated by "The Way."

I suspect that business owners along the route do not care about the motivation. They just like the economic stimulus.

 

[jpflavin1]

The Camino, in my opinion, is for everyone who chooses to come. That said, everyone who chooses to walk the Camino will not find it too their liking. I am not sure what the start/finish numbers are/or if the can even be computed. However, there are many who start and do not finish for a variety of reasons.

While I do not like to interpret what people really mean with their statements, I do believe everyone here is pretty much saying the same thing. I believe most on this forum welcome any and all who wish to walk the Camino (for everyone). We offer advice from what to wear, where/what to eat, where to sleep (from camping, Albergue, pension or an occasional Paradore), carry your pack or not, walk, ride a horse take a bus etc. etc. At the same time we recognize that some who do come to walk will not find the Camino their cup of tea (not for everyone).

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[CaminoGen]

This is a good post and one I like being discussed. In preparing for my Camino walk with my brother later in 2013 or early 2014, we have noted many people walking as "tourists on a cheap vacation" rather than as pilgrims on a religious experience. The popularity of the movie "The Way" has brought a large number of recreational walkers and tourists to the Camino, who are changing the experience from a journey of Christian faith into some other type of tailored commercialized hiking vacation. We have already seen the decline of our Christian Christmas holiday into something completely the opposite of the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. We are having to plan to walk in either the October-November or March-April time frames to avoid the "tourists." The statistics from the Church in Santiago show the increase in the number of pilgrims who walk for "other" non-religious reasons. We know it will be a bit more difficult to walk the Camino during these times due to the weather and the closure of many alberques. We just hope the Camino experience doesn't degrade into some type of cheap atheist vacation destination. Thanks for the post!

Wow! I hope you can check some of the attitude and stereotypes before you leave. As an atheist, I had the most wonderful conversations about religion with open-minded people from all over the world. Also, you will find that most people walking the camino don't wear their religion on their sleeves. Even though I'm an atheist (but baptized ), I participated in a lot of prayer circles and masses because I know and accept the history of the Camino Francès.

 

[Olivares]

]Rebecah--

This post has been edited by Moderators to remove personal attacks.
Poster is warned to review rules of the forum posted by Ivar at top of page.

.....snip...
People seek out different experiences in different ways and the Camino is not the only answer to what could be the motive for a person to engage in it. I actually think that being over-critical could prevent a lot of people from engaging in the Camino. Obviously, not...

This way of thinking is the same path followed by those who won't engage pilgrims with "suspicious, small backpacks", or those who stayed at hotels ( ). My point is (and I do have one...) WHO CARES why/when/how/what. Let's try to enjoy the experience that is rather than the one that isn't.....

 

[wayfarer]

This is a good post and one I like being discussed. In preparing for my Camino walk with my brother later in 2013 or early 2014, we have noted many people walking as "tourists on a cheap vacation" rather than as pilgrims on a religious experience. The popularity of the movie "The Way" has brought a large number of recreational walkers and tourists to the Camino, who are changing the experience from a journey of Christian faith into some other type of tailored commercialized hiking vacation. We have already seen the decline of our Christian Christmas holiday into something completely the opposite of the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. We are having to plan to walk in either the October-November or March-April time frames to avoid the "tourists." The statistics from the Church in Santiago show the increase in the number of pilgrims who walk for "other" non-religious reasons. We know it will be a bit more difficult to walk the Camino during these times due to the weather and the closure of many alberques. We just hope the Camino experience doesn't degrade into some type of cheap atheist vacation destination. Thanks for the post!

Well you are entitled to your opinion but I for one am very happy to have met on my camino several jews, one muslim, a couple of buddists and God knows how many atheists.
There are many roads to God.
Buen camino.

 

[David]

God in us, as us :wink:

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Sigh.
No matter how many times I clarify, some people insist on missing the point and assigning judgements that are undeserved.
I think I have explained sufficiently what I meant.

Thank you, moderator, for sparing me a personal attack... I am glad I missed that!

 

[Jubilado]

Of course

 

[colinPeter]

Sigh.

Still a good subject for those prepared to discuss the very good original post.

 

[lizlane]

Reb mentioned "economic factors," and I'd like to speak to that. I'm one of those who knew nothing about the Camino prior to watching the movie "The Way" on Easter of this year. So far, personal finances have mandated me one of those for whom the Camino is not for.

At least not yet!! But I'm determined that "One day..." God willing, I will walk the Way. Until then, I am doing my part to live as a pilgrim now! Nothing gets me more steamed than reading posts from people who DID have the chance and came away miserable! It really bothers me. Yet I suppose meeting the intolerant, the complainers, and the shallow here in the forum is truly preparation because such people are sure to be there as well! So I may as well get over it now.

As for me, I started a new job today. A really well-paying one! :lol: So a Camino might just be in my future after all! And when I go, I WILL NOT EXPECT! If that's the only lesson I've learned here (and it's not) then I'm ready...I refuse to leave my dreams by the wayside but who needs expectations anyway?

 

[Jubilado]

Until t

 

[Kevin F. O*brien]

To Jubilado - thanks for your remarks! Why ? Because of course they reflect my thoughts entirely!! And this was what I assume Reb was trying to say. Several times I have assisted people in ending their Camino because either physical or emotional circumstances prevented them from continuing. Things just don't turn out the way we want them to occasionally, and anybody who has lived for a while should accept that. I also blame some of these books and films for giving people a false impression. I read many of the remarks with humility and respect and thanks to all who made a post or two.
Jubilado, I read about your being ill on the Levante and hope you will be back there soon. Let me know if there is anything you are wondering about. You will love it!!

Buen Camino para todos,
Kev

 

[Jubilado]

To Jubilado - thanks for your remarks! Why ? Because of course they reflect my thoughts entirely!! And this was what I assume Reb was trying to say. Several times I have assisted people in ending their Camino because either physical or emotional circumstances prevented them from continuing. Things just don't turn out the way we want them to occasionally, and anybody who has lived for a while should accept that. I also blame some of these books and films for giving people a false impression. I read many of the remarks with humility and respect and thanks to all who made a post or two.
Jubilado, I read about your being ill on the Levante and hope you will be back there soon. Let me know if there is anything you are wondering about. You will love it!!

Buen Camino para todos,
Kev

 

[tendigrino]

There is a quote from the Middle Ages.

Camino doors open to everyone, sick and healthy. Not only Catholics, but even to pagans, Jews, heretics, idle and vain, and more briefly good and profane "
Buen Camino to Santiago.

 

[bystander]

This is such a good thread. Thank you Rebekah.

It throws open just how we all judge/criticise each other, intentionally or not, just as we do throughout life.

Without being flippant, of course there are people for whom the Camino is not suited just as taking up sailing is not. So if they, pilgrims/sailors “chuck it in/turn back to port” use “use taxis, baggage services/drop the sails and use the engine” that is their choice and not for others to sniff snootily about.

I have done a few thousand miles of ocean sailing without using autohelms etc but have no problems with others who have – that is their cruise/trip. Good luck to them, I wouldn’t have enjoyed it but they did. That was their trip.

I have always thought that your Camino was YOUR camino and not someone else’s.

To use the sailing analogy, I know many many sailors for whom the destination is the most important thing but for others, like me, that the journey, itself, is the most enjoyable part.

As I have yet to walk the Camino (poss. May/June 2013) I apologise if my comments seem presumptuous.

 

[wayfarer]

Wise words bystander.

 

[tyrrek]

As for me, I started a new job today. A really well-paying one! :lol: So a Camino might just be in my future after all!

Glad to hear that Lizlane! Good luck with the new job! If you live for the next few months from spaghetti, lentils, bocadillos, bananas and yoghurt you will not only save enough money for the Camino but have a body that is perfectly trained for it!

Buen Camino!

 

[Al the optimist]

Lol Tyrrek!

 

[tsetsgee]

It will be my first Camino Oct 2013. I am not religious, I just like to walk. I have never been interested much in europe but walking, immersing myself in culture, meeting people, and having nothing to dictate my path except for the weather and my own body is how I like to travel and experience the world.
I look forward to seeing how far I can push myself more mentally than physically, and I am very much enjoying reading the stories of everyone who has done this before me. I know the Camino is not for everyone but good on those who try.

 

[Mackie]

Nothing gets me more steamed than reading posts from people who DID have the chance and came away miserable! It really bothers me. Yet I suppose meeting the intolerant, the complainers, and the shallow here in the forum is truly preparation because such people are sure to be there as well! So I may as well get over it now.

I walked the Camino last year (Sep 2011) for 29 days from Roncesvalles to Santiago. I don't think there are many of them (intolerant, complainers, shallow) in the Camino. I didn't meet or come across one. So don't let the posts affect you. Go and do it. I'm doing it again in 2013.

 

[Kitsambler]

Thank you, Rebekah, for starting an engaging discussion. Of course, the Camino is not for everyone. Neither do we all have the same shoe size. Nor is everyone a vegetarian. Wouldn't the world be a terribly boring place if we were all the same?

I have seen this phenomenon before, where one person has decided the Camino is for them, but is uncomfortable with the prospect of undertaking the challenge alone. So the arm-twisting begins, until some friend or acquaintance is weak enough to buckle under the persuasion and agree to go along, eventhough this type of travel is the farthest thing from their minds. This thread is for you! If you really have trouble seeing yourself making this journey, for whatever reason (or no reason), then don't.

Just as no one would dream of telling another what food to eat, shoes to choose, clothing to wear, or house of worship to frequent (unless asked for such an opinion of course), no one should be persuading you to walk the Camino. It needs to be an individual call, and an individual response.

 

[AJ]

Oh dear! Did you get drunk as well?

Yes.

 

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Alle Menschen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=GB ... e=youtu.be
We're all pilgrims to our final destinations.
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all!

 

[Jubilado]

;;;

 

[David]

Marvellous!!! Froh!!

 

[Abbeydore]

Re: Alle Menschen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=GBaHPND2QJg&feature=youtu.be
We're all pilgrims to our final destinations.
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all!

This is a wonderful video (& turn your sound up as loud as possible)
Merry Christmas
David

 

[tsetsgee]

I look forward to seeing how far I can push myself more mentally than physically,

It's a choice of course. But why would you want to do that?

Consider trying to benefit from an opportunity to escape striving and stress. It's a holiday from all that.
You say that you're not interested in Europe - fine- but if you are walking the Camino Francés it is Camino de Santiago, Camino de Europa.

Not interested in europe, I didn't mean it how it sounded... My apologies... My travel so far has only been in Asia and I have only heard that holidays in europe are expensive so I have never really explored it as a travel option. That is why the walk and the isolation that I have been reading about with the camino has brought an interest for my travel to europe. I am looking forward to escaping from the stress of daily life and travelling to a part of the world that I have never been near, and if everything that I read is true then it sounds like it might be the start of a great love affair

 

[Rae2607]

This is a good post and one I like being discussed. In preparing for my Camino walk with my brother later in 2013 or early 2014, we have noted many people walking as "tourists on a cheap vacation" rather than as pilgrims on a religious experience. The popularity of the movie "The Way" has brought a large number of recreational walkers and tourists to the Camino, who are changing the experience from a journey of Christian faith into some other type of tailored commercialized hiking vacation. We have already seen the decline of our Christian Christmas holiday into something completely the opposite of the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. We are having to plan to walk in either the October-November or March-April time frames to avoid the "tourists." The statistics from the Church in Santiago show the increase in the number of pilgrims who walk for "other" non-religious reasons. We know it will be a bit more difficult to walk the Camino during these times due to the weather and the closure of many alberques. We just hope the Camino experience doesn't degrade into some type of cheap atheist vacation destination. Thanks for the post!

Wow! I hope you can check some of the attitude and stereotypes before you leave. As an atheist, I had the most wonderful conversations about religion with open-minded people from all over the world. Also, you will find that most people walking the camino don't wear their religion on their sleeves. Even though I'm an atheist (but baptized ), I participated in a lot of prayer circles and masses because I know and accept the history of the Camino Francès.

Thank you, CaminoGen. I, too, am an atheist (baptized in the Catholic church) and very much look forward to my Camino in 2013. I hope to find people who are open-minded and accepting of everyone around them, no matter their religion (or lack thereof) or their motivations for walking the Camino. It seems it would be most unfortunate for the Camino to become a place where only a certain group were allowed to participate. The world is full of so many kinds of people, all with their own stories and struggles, even if they are *GASP* atheists!!

 

[annakappa]

Sorry Ray2607, quoting you....

. It seems it would be most unfortunate for the Camino to become a place where only a certain group were allowed to participate. .......

Could you explain this sentence better? Thanks, Anne

 

[lindseh]

This is a good post and one I like being discussed. In preparing for my Camino walk with my brother later in 2013 or early 2014, we have noted many people walking as "tourists on a cheap vacation" rather than as pilgrims on a religious experience. The popularity of the movie "The Way" has brought a large number of recreational walkers and tourists to the Camino, who are changing the experience from a journey of Christian faith into some other type of tailored commercialized hiking vacation. We have already seen the decline of our Christian Christmas holiday into something completely the opposite of the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. We are having to plan to walk in either the October-November or March-April time frames to avoid the "tourists." The statistics from the Church in Santiago show the increase in the number of pilgrims who walk for "other" non-religious reasons. We know it will be a bit more difficult to walk the Camino during these times due to the weather and the closure of many alberques. We just hope the Camino experience doesn't degrade into some type of cheap atheist vacation destination. Thanks for the post!

Honestly, this makes me quite angry. The reasons for which any individual walks the camino are in no way inferior to your own. A peregrino walking for cultural reasons, or spiritual but "non-religious" reasons is no more or less of a tourist than yourself. So I'd urge you to climb down off your soapbox and try to be a little more open-minded, hmm? Because I would say your battle is already lost - you're in the minority who only do it for very strictly religious reasons. I can only hope that you don't flaunt your inherent superiority too much on the Camino... I'm sure you'll earn yourself a humourous (well, not to you..) nickname from your fellow inferior pilgrims.

Nonetheless, I wish you a buen camino. I do hope your camino and your experiences with other pilgrims might change your mind about the value of journeys different than your own, but it won't unless you let it - and I encourage you to do so.

 

[ffp13]

The Camino was and still is a Christian pilgrimage route to the final resting place of St James, those not walking the Way for religious reasons are still 'pilgrims' and may be referred to as 'cultural pilgrims' , or more harshly as camino tourists.

 

[hieudovan]

The Camino was and still is a Christian pilgrimage route to the final resting place of St James, those not walking the Way for religious reasons are still 'pilgrims' and may be referred to as 'cultural pilgrims' , or more harshly as camino tourists.

It seems like we can have “hierarchy of sorts” in anything we do in life, IF we so choose. For me, I use the term “pilgrim” quite loosely. So, if we walk to Santiago we automatically become pilgrims because it is St. James’ resting place? BTW, I don’t think St. James was actually buried there, which does not diminish my walk in anyway. How about the walk from Le Puys to St Jean? As far as I know, there seems to be no significant remains of any saint at St. Jean. I like lindseh's invitation. Let’s open our hearts and minds to all who walk. I know for myself, my life has been enriched by my CF walk, not by the physical and concrete as much as the many wonderful souls that I had met on the way. Buen Camino! Hieu

 

[sillydoll]

The Camino was and still is a Christian pilgrimage route

I don't mean to be pedantic, but this is not exactly true!

The Camino is what it is - a pilgrimage trail built on a legend about a martyred apostle, transferred to Iberia in 44AD in a stone boat with no sails, blown across the seas by angels.

800 years later El Camino de Santiago developed into a religious pilgrimage with, specifically, Roman Catholic roots.

Even before the Reformation in 1517, there were many different types of Christians - not just Roman Catholics. There were Gnostic Christians, Coptic Christians, Arian Christians, Jacobite Christians, Donatist Christians, Pelagian Christians, Cathars, Orthodox Christians etc etc.

There has always been a very clear hierarchy, and although the la Pretiosa claimed that 'all were welcome ....." the Camino's benefits and rewards were always restricted to members of the Roman Catholic Church, not to other Christians.

Then and now, non-Catholic Christians who walked the Camino were denied the sacraments in the Catholic churches and did not qualify for indulgences. In other words, there has never been a 'get out of jail' card for non-Roman Catholics!

 

[hieudovan]

The Camino was and still is a Christian pilgrimage route

There has always been a very clear hierarchy, and although the la Pretiosa claimed that 'all were welcome ....." the Camino's benefits and rewards were always restricted to members of the Roman Catholic Church, not to other Christians.

Yes, I'm sure the Catholic pilgrims get their benefits and rewards when they walk the Camino. I am equally sure that the "other" pilgrims also get their benefits and rewards when they walk the Camino. To each his/her own benefits and rewards. Buen Camino! Hieu

 

[jastrace]

Thanks Sillydoll. Well timed post. I think you saved about a lot of people from expressing similar views. Thanks.

Also not to forget that the route the Camino Frances and others take, and their various options and re-directions, were well used trade routes pre-Christianity. Claiming the Camino exclusively for Catholicism or Christianity requires a limited view of history.

Setting aside questions of fact regarding the history of St James, I agree with those who have said it before that it would be difficult to demonstrate that St James' remains were actually interred in Santiago. For some they believe as a matter of faith. Similarly the motivations and views of others with different belief systems are equally as valid. So while I am a Catholic, I disagree with views that claim that a 'genuine' or 'legitimate' Camino is one performed for Catholic, Christian or even religious reasons.

So when I am on the Camino, I don't care why people are there. I am grateful that they are there at the same time as me and I am able to meet them. I am grateful that I get to understand others a bit better and appreciate this amazing world we live in a bit better. I am grateful to be able to spend time in such an awesome country as Spain.

Cheers,

Jason.

 

[jeffnd]

I don't feel bad for the people who walk the Camino and lament that it is not a hardcore, technical, wilderness trail. Fifteen minutes of research will tell you that it is not. And if you are going to dedicate a month of your life to doing something, you should at least red the wikipedia article on it. I've been on this forum for about half a year and I've seen more than one article written by professional hikers who get their ExOfficio's in a bunch because they learned the Camino Frances is not the Appalachian Trail and therefore "sucks." It's like declaring that a certain kind of car is bad because it's not a farris wheel.

As for other points, such as religious pilgrimage vs. secular hike through Spain, I'm biting my tongue.

 

[colinPeter]

re: The Camino Is Not For Everyone

I made that categorical statement in another thread, and a wise moderator suggested we take it elsewhere so as to not derail the subject under discussion there.

I think this "subject under discussion" has been well and truly "derailed".

 

[wayfarer]

re: The Camino Is Not For Everyone

I made that categorical statement in another thread, and a wise moderator suggested we take it elsewhere so as to not derail the subject under discussion there.

I think this "subject under discussion" has been well and truly "derailed".

I would say Rebekahs post was misunderstood by most rather than derailed and I include myself in that. She was trying to explain the reasons why people should not do the camino and why some are not suited to do it and then we got all the posts basicaly saying that only catholics or christians should do it and that it should not become a tourist destination for athiests, others including myself said everyone who wants to do it should and so it went on. It is a good thread, it shows how people think, different attitudes etc, but isnt that what makes the world an interesting place, as long as we are tolerant of others.

 

[Rae2607]

Sorry Ray2607, quoting you....

. It seems it would be most unfortunate for the Camino to become a place where only a certain group were allowed to participate. .......

Could you explain this sentence better? Thanks, Anne

I was referring to BamaHiker's comment implying that he doesn't want to walk with a bunch of "atheists". I know the camino is a pilgrimage route, but that doesn't mean that as an atheist I am any less worthy of walking it, or that I don't have my own deeply personal reasons for doing so. I suppose his remark was my first experience in the forum of being lambasted for my lack of religion. Other comments have been very accepting and open-minded. That is all I meant by saying it would be unfortunate if only a certain group (Christians) were allowed to participate in walking the Camino.
I hope that makes sense.

 

[ivar]

Some posts in this thread has been deleted since they were way off topic.

Saludos,
Ivar

 

[Chacharm]

Before it was the Camino de Santiago it was a pagan's pilgrimage between the temple of Janus and the temple of ...Aphrodite? (I've forgotten which one was represented by the concha). Pilgrims used to walk it to gain citizenship in Rome long before St. James died.
Christians do not own the Camino - what a silly post. People of no faith or of a different faith don't detract from the religious nature of one's own Camino anymore than than they detract from one's own experience of Christmas. When did American Christians become so exclusivist? Don't you WANT everyone to experience the wonder and beauty of your faith?
Saying the Camino is not for everyone is like saying roller coasters aren't for everyone. Of course they aren't - but how many adults get on one who are not clear about the nature of the ride?
I decided the Camino was not for me every other day (and always at the end of the day). By the next morning I was happy to be there and ready to go again. Just about every friend I have at home didn't think it was for me - but I did - I did it and I'll do it again.

The only aspect of the Camino I really didn't like were the folks who felt they needed to express their opinion about MY Camino - sending my pack ahead and spending many nights in hotels or hostals, etc. really bugged some folks. Happily - they were few and far between. I met lots of absolutely wonderful people who were friendly and open and warm and conversant with me regardless of my being an atheist.

My son and I helped to nurse hurting feet and share food and water and some wine and paid for a stranger's bed or two and put an arm around a few lonely peregrinos here and there and I don't remember anyone demanding to see our Christian Identity Papers...and that is just as it should be.

 

[hecate105]

I think us pagans walked the routes far earlier than Christianity was invented, mumble, grumble, wheeze....
Come on people - we are all pilgrims - when we walk the Way together - but also when we sit immobile in a wheelchair, sharing the Way by books, conversation and dreams. Lets not denigrate each other because of our differences in religion and/or belief. Gorblimey we humans are crap at being kind and tolerant ent we??!!

 

[colinPeter]

Some posts in this thread has been deleted since they were way off topic.

Saludos,
Ivar

Keep deleting Ivar, It doesn't seem any closer to getting back to "on topic".

 

[siseale94]

To quote Ernesto Cardenal, "spirituality unites mankind, religion divides it." I am from Mobile, Alabama and I promise that Bamahiker's provincial view of what defines a pilgrim is not mine or any of the people I walked with or met on the Camino. I do believe he has much to learn. The Camino is much older than christianity and welcomes all who choose to follow it.

 

[annakappa]

[quote

I think this "subject under discussion" has been well and truly "derailed".[/quote]

I totally agree, we (me included) have swerved completely away from Rebekah's original posting.
Religion or lack of, shouldn't be coming under discussion here. As far as I understand Rebekah, it was to point out that not everyone has "the call", not everyone has the physical durability, not everyone can support walking day after day for more than one month, carrying ones bare essentials on their back, not everyone can cope with blisters, tendinitis, bed bugs, daily co-habitation in Albergues once into their Camino, they simply find out that it's just not their thing. (If they ever started)! Anne

 

[Deleted member 3000]

If you find that someone's posts regularly get up your dander, make them a "Foe" and you won't see their posts, or be tempted to respond! There is something about compulsively reading things that you don't want to read that is a bit obsessive-compulsive and more than a bit masochistic!

Just sayin' ... :wink:

 

[FrancesK]

So when I am on the Camino, I don't care why people are there. I am grateful that they are there at the same time as me and I am able to meet them. I am grateful that I get to understand others a bit better and appreciate this amazing world we live in a bit better. I am grateful to be able to spend time in such an awesome country as Spain.
/quote]

Seconded

 

[colinPeter]

..... I am grateful to be able to spend time in such an awesome country as Spain.
Jason.

Yes, Spain is an absolutely wonderful place, full of wonderful people.
Rebekah mentioned that the "idea of coping with other languages, strange food ... other cultures, colors, or beliefs.", might make certain people uncomfortable.
I certainly know people like this, and I think that this would definitely deter some. Many people would possibly prefer an organized tour with guide and translator, and of course there is nothing wrong with that.
However, I think the Camino has probably been very liberating for many people, who have been "enticed by the Camino", who have stepped out for possibly the firstime and immersed themself in a new culture. If I had to pick a country to do that for the first time, it would certainly be Spain.

 

[Tia Valeria]

When Terry walked the Camino in 2009 I was unable to go with him. In 2010 we planned to walk parts of his Camino to see where he had been and for me to experience it. Due to cold weather, illness and more bad weather we turned back from the mountains to the coast. Terry expected that this would all mean that the Camino wasn't 'for me'. However the reverse is true and next year will see us on the Way again together. For me it is the Camino Francés which doesn't feel right 'for me', the Norte and Primitivo are.
However I can see that, as Reb has said some people, have an idealised idea of the Way - which then causes difficulty when it doesn't meet their expectations. Others struggle for the reasons Annakapa gives.
We are all different and for some 'the Way' (any route) just isn't 'the right way'. Nothing right or wrong in that, just a fact of life.
Remember 'Atlantic Heart' and her honest postings and the love and support this forum gave her? The Camino wasn't for her, but her posts were helpful to so many others.

 

[colinPeter]

....For me it is the Camino Francés which doesn't feel right 'for me', .....
We are all different and for some 'the Way' (any route) just isn't 'the right way'. Nothing right or wrong in that, just a fact of life.

Yes, some very good points in your post.
I know a devoted "Camino" person, who at least at this stage, is not at all interested in the Camino Frances route, but has walked the Via de la Plata a couple of times. Me, well I'm the other way round, I like the French route and will walk it again next year. I'm one way, my friend another and others may not wish to walk any route.
As you say, "Nothing right or wrong in that, just a fact of life".

 

[Victor Morgado]

How I always felt about that is perhaps a bit too subjective and even considered as "superstitious" by some...but somehow that is my feeling I would say after some 43 years linked to the Camino one way or the other..I have done it in three occasions...the first time i was not even planning to walk , just to hitch hike from Paris to Santiago respecting the etapas..but some how fate caught up with me and I ended up walking...The Camino is for everyone, as the Camino is a reflection of our own personal Camino in life..we encounter ups and downs...friends and enemies...As a matter of fact, I would dare say that what ever we dont come to term with in our own lives at home, we meet during our Camino to Compostela...one way or the other....I have had encounters that were like battles to resolve unresolved issues in relations etc...the last one was quite an experience as I became a father after that..but those pilgrims who give up and take buses etc...they dont quit the camino, they just put their experience pending on the air until their next camino in life,,,whether the camino frances or el camino at home where ever they live...

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I am back, having just picked a couple of young North Americans off the trail. One of them went home this afternoon, ending two long weeks of rain-soaked misery. He was NOT meant for the Camino, but was dedicated to his friend -- a person who is happy, rain or shine.
The happy friend is sad to see him go, but he is joyful to be on the trail. I think the happy guy will be utterly liberated when he sets out tomorrow, free of the heavy burden his friend had become.

Not everyone is cut out for the Camino. It is a fact. There is no shame in it. If you are continually miserable, ill, injured, or just not having any fun, you should go home. The camino will still be here if and when you decide to try again.

That´s the whole point of the original post. Listen to your heart and your body. Don´t judge yourself too harshly. And don´t let other people´s judgments make you miserable.

 

[Yallah]

You forgot the biggest reason some of my friends felt the camino was not for them-- it was too easy! They are into challenging wilderness hikes and love being self-contained, scaling mountains and getting to places that cars can't. No rushing for a cheap bed when you have your tent. They found the camino too "mindless" as it required no navigation, not careful planning of food and resources far from civilization, etc.

 

[sillydoll]

Yallah, if your friends thought that the Camino was going to be anything like that, they obviously didn't do any research before hand!

From the beginning, the Camino followed civilisation wherever possible, leading the pilgrim from one safe shrine to the next - not into the wilderness where they could be eaten by wolves or murdered by outlaws! The distances were walk-able - between towns and villages. Towns were fortified and pilgrims sheltered within their walls so as not to have their throats slit or be taken into slavery by marauding Saracens.

If your friends wanted a challenging wilderness trail, someone lied to them when they suggested the Camino!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

it was too easy!

With some out-of-the-box thinking, they could have done it barefoot, with fifty pound packs, and at a 50 km per day clip! That would make up for the terrain and the soft beds.

 

[Yallah]

Good point, Sillydoll. My friends decided the camino was not for them without ever setting foot on it. They opted for more challenging GR routes through France and Spain, of which there are many!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

They opted for more challenging GR routes through France and Spain, of which there are many!

Can they share those with us? I have been on several dozen GR routes, and none was difficult overall; just some stretches that require exertion, a bit like leaving Castrojeriz. Is there any chance they exaggerated the difficulty? I have a few friends whose walks are always a bit more difficult than anyone else's, usually after a beer or two.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Yallah, excellent point, but I do not see a lot of hardcore mountaineers on this forum!

People who think the Frances is too easy have lots more options to choose from here in Spain, some with Camino or pilgrimage involvement, still more with the whole pitons and come-alongs route. I love the remote mountain caminos, and have even written a couple of guides thereto, but these days I would never pretend to be a hardcore mountaineer... the heights I aspire to are spiritual, alas!

Any technical mountaineer worth his salt will know within five minutes that most of the Caminos de Santiago are not what they´re looking for. But I challenge any of them to walk the Camino Viejo, all the way to Santiago, and report back here as the same old hard-ass thrill-seeking goober that started the trip. :twisted:

I´ve done some killer trails in my time, but this Camino thing is something different.
Reb

 

[tyrrek]

Yep. The Camino is a pilgrimage done by ordinary people, in an ordinary state of fitness, who don't want to spend a month clinging to rock faces, but to enjoy the company of people from all over, the food, wine and the hospitality of our hosts in Spain. That's what I reckon. Buen Camino!

 

[sillydoll]

My friends decided the camino was not for them without ever setting foot on it.

They found the camino too "mindless"

How on earth did they come to that conclusion without having set foot on it?

The dictionary explains the word 'mindless' as "having no intelligent purpose, meaning, or direction".

So, in their opinions, millions (literally millions) of pilgrims throughout the ages (including several thousand on this forum) have embarked on a 'mindless' pilgrimage to Santiago with no intelligent purpose or meaning?

Nah!! I think the shoe is on the other foot, huh?

 

[Yallah]

After listening to my description of the camino, which I loved, some of the more adventurous friends thought it sounded too "mindless" in the sense of "requiring little or no intellectual effort." They like the challenge of navigating, carrying food, camping out, etc.

Nothing against the camino! Just pointing out one of the other reasons "the camino is not for everyone."

 

[MTtoCamino]

I thank god for everyones imput & this Forum. As for me it is simply a draw as if god is pulling me to begin. Living in the rocky mountains I look forward to meeting people of different faith & mindset. I will try to keep it simple. Walk, pray, eat, sleep. The characters along the way will just remind me of how we are all human & experience life.

I appreciate all of you sharing your experience be it good or bad.
Keith

 

[robhay60]

It seems that everyday people are doing extraordinary things , doing things they never thought possible. They surprise those around them as well as themselves! Whether its a task , a new job, a retreat, or even a "Camino" Putting ourselves into a position that will take us out of our so called "Safety Zone" Mostly its voluntary , a "Self Choice" but then other times we just find ourselves there and we have no choice but to reach for that something "More" that we never thought we had...
I have seen this time and time again, and always it not only humbles me , but inspires me...
I am sure that for those of us who walk and will walk the "Camino" it is something that we choose..
I know i chose it, and despite my good health and fitness i still had my doubts!
Whilst on my "Camino" i was constantly amazed and inspired by my fellow "Pilgrims" There seemed to be no "Regular Fit" as to how a "Pilgrim" looked or how fit and prepared they were. on the "Camino" we were all equals and there seemed to be an unconditional acceptance of each and everyone.
I guess the things i learned most during my month long journey was , tolerence, patience (with myself as much as anyone else!) and an appreciation of those i had the good fortune to be meeting.. i am grateful that i had the chance.
It is a journey like no other and for each and everyone it will be different as ever " The Camino" will have its own plan. Buen Camino :arrow:

 

[sillydoll]

The Camino is for everyone - super fit or not so fit. Walking + 800km over three mountain ranges and in all kinds of weather is a challenge for most ordinary people and for some, it is an enormous challenge.

The members of my Slow Camino (including the 89 year-old man) have to use every bit of their will, spirit and determination to walk 100 km in 17 days.

Extreme adventures are for extreme adventurers only. Most 'ordinary' hikers or walkers would not want to perch on a precipice 3 500 m above a ravine with an 80 LB backpack on their backs!

 

[Green Tortuga]

If there's one thing about this thread that surprises me, it's how many people here agree with the sentiment that the Camino is not for everyone. Which I agree with completely, so perhaps I'm biased on the matter. =) Anyone can do the Camino, but not everyone should.

However, I think if we all look down within ourselves, we'll find we all have prejudices of what types of people "shouldn't" do the Camino. When I did my Camino, I heard a lot of people gripe about the bicyclists. I heard people suggest that those who use taxis to forward their bags along aren't "real" pilgrims. Others say that anyone who prefers the use of hotels instead of alburgues aren't following in the "spirit" of the Camino. Or that those who skip ahead of "boring" parts are cheating themselves.

And I'm not throwing stones here--I'm as guilty as the next person. The thing that annoyed me the most were that so many people would stick to the "main" Camino route rather than take the (in my opinion) much quieter and nicer scenic alternatives. Well, admittedly, I had something of a love/hate relationship with that. I loved that it was quieter and nicer because not so many people crowded them, but then I'd get back into the mass of humanity and listen to people complain about how miserable that section of the trail was which irritated me to no end. "Then why did you CHOOSE it?!"

But when you get right down to it, all of those things are all about intolerance--intolerance towards people who aren't doing things like we do--intolerance towards people who are different from us. There's probably not a day on the trail I didn't hear some sort of reference to people being intolerant of others. I kind of think it's human nature to be intolerant towards anything and anyone who's different from ourselves, and the trail is packed with case studies.

I hope everyone who walks the trail tries to look out for this sort of intolerance. Identify it and avoid it. We should welcome our differences, not scorn them. This world would be a pretty boring and rotten place if everyone were just like me. I talk to myself enough already! =)

And then there's another kind of person--the kind of person who would have absolutely no interest in walking hundreds of kilometers through a foreign country with a bunch of strangers. I don't get it, but I don't have to to understand that the trail is not for these kind of people.

I love backpacking. I love walking out in the middle of nowhere and spending a night under the stars. Some of my best times were thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail and the Pacific Crest Trail--and I feel much the same way about those trails as I did the Camino. You'll even hear similar vocabulary used. Thru-hikers will describe their journey in spiritual terms. I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to do these trails, but I know it's true. I once had someone who met me on the trail ask if they would recommend that they do the trail someday, and I told them, "Probably not. It takes a certain kind of mindset to do a trail like this, and most people just don't have it."

The Camino is the same way. It takes a certain kind of mindset to do a journey like this and enjoy it. Not everyone has that mindset. Anyone can do the Camino, but that's not the same as saying that everyone should do it. Failing to recognize that the Camino isn't for everyone is just another form of intolerance--intolerance towards people who have no interest in the Camino.

There's already too much intolerance on the trail--watch out and try not to fall victim to it.

-- Ryan

 

[PhilipGPelling]

Hi Folks - A 'Newbie' here,

I am looking to do Camino Frances in May - probably on my own although there is a possibility that a friend will join me for a few days.

My original intention had been to do the walk next year as my plan for 2013 was to retrace, by bicycle, a 2500 km sponsored walk around France and Spain I did for an environmental charity in 2008. That walk was done almost entirely on my own with no backup. Carrying a full pack including tent, sleeping bag, sleeping matt etc. Unfortunately I had chosen a companion for the bike ride who told me today he cannot make it so my original plan for the Camino in 2014 has taken its place.

The weather for the 2008 walk was atrocious in the main but I still I covered the distance in 2.5 months - up hill, down dale, over mountains, alongside beaches and so on.

So, I am a pretty experience walker but I am not, I hope, an arrogant man so have been trawling the internet for tips and advice on this trek- in the main regarding what or what not to carry. I also thought it might be good to do what many seem to think is the 'easy option' - Camino Frances. This is because I felt that having the opportunity to meet so many different people of varying backgrounds etc could be inspirational rather than spending so much time in solitude as before.

Then it occurred to me that I might question my suitability as I am a non believer. Don't get me wrong - I am not particularly 'anti' either. Amongst my friends and family I have people of many ethnicities and followers of different belief systems. In fact I was discussing this very point just today with my sister who is a Jehovah's Witness.

So I came across this thread... And the entry made by:

This is a good post and one I like being discussed. In preparing for my Camino walk with my brother later in 2013 or early 2014, we have noted many people walking as "tourists on a cheap vacation" rather than as pilgrims on a religious experience. The popularity of the movie "The Way" has brought a large number of recreational walkers and tourists to the Camino, who are changing the experience from a journey of Christian faith into some other type of tailored commercialized hiking vacation. We have already seen the decline of our Christian Christmas holiday into something completely the opposite of the reason we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. We are having to plan to walk in either the October-November or March-April time frames to avoid the "tourists." The statistics from the Church in Santiago show the increase in the number of pilgrims who walk for "other" non-religious reasons. We know it will be a bit more difficult to walk the Camino during these times due to the weather and the closure of many alberques. We just hope the Camino experience doesn't degrade into some type of cheap atheist vacation destination. Thanks for the post!

All I can say is that I would find it very interesting to meet that chap but feel very confident having now read many posts that I can expect some excellent company. Hopefully combined with the odd lively, but not contentious, debate.

But I would like to say to 'Bama Hiker' that I do have a belief and that is that The World is for EVERYONE.

Thanks,
Phil

 

[hotelmedicis]

Oh man, "the camino is not for everyone." That's like saying "not everyone likes fish." The world is vast and wide and we all have different tastes and priorities. Some people eat meat, others eat vegetables. So what? Of course the Camino is not for everybody - ok, so what? A bit like Paris. Or Manchester. Or Osaka. Not for everybody.