Still needed urgently: Little Fox Sitter...

[Priscillian]

It´s a bit like a babysitter but has added advantages...
For reasons I still cannot fathom (and which have cause me great personal hurt) my post asking for someone or a couple or three of someones who might either be in this area at Christmas or who might like to be to house and catsit over Christmas - so that I can spend the holidays with my family - has been removed. It has been deemed "advertising for business" by certain members who have complained ... not, I am sorry to say for the first time. It seems that offering accommodation, food and wine and even a Christmas tree for free is somehow being interpreted in certain quarters as an attempt at commercial enterprise.
Ordinarily, as you might already know, I offer my personal and only home as a refuge "post Camino" near Muxia for those of you who have completed your pilgrimage and who need a bit more time to contemplate it before getting ready for the journey home. It is and always has been donativo and this includes not just beds with duvets but food, wine and a lot of TLC.... It is my way of giving back to the Camino. But I am not allowed to write of this.....
I am a writer of novels which take a non-conventional view of the historical assumptions of the camino and the myth of St. James. It is not always appreciated. I hope that this has not influenced those who decide whether or not a post by me should be accepted or deleted.
Be that as it may, I have been an active member of this Forum for almost 6 years and I have written on a host of subjecvts, some of them considered controversial but, I hope, most of them appreciated by the majority of Forum members.
I STILL only want to go home for Christmas.....I love pilgrims but I iss my daughter and my granddaughter. I need to be reassured that my hime and three cats will be loved while I am away.
Anyone up for my offer? (You have to like cats as my little Halloween stray Siamese seems to be pregnant...pilgrims around here seem to come in all shapes and sizes and number of legs!)
Why me.....?
686 315 328 or 981 730 842 See The Little Fox House FB page

 

[Priscillian]

PS: Ivar asks for your donation. It follows my post. I made mine the first day it was asked for. Won't you do the same...?

 

[markss]

Tracy,

I was in the process of responding to this post but got distracted. Essentially the response was to suggest that maybe you were taking things too personally. After all the operation of this forum itself takes a commitment of money and time. At some level a decision between whether to require paid advertising or allow free promotion of goods or services has to be made, regardless of whether that promotion is itself for a charitable cause or that these decisions do not always appear to be consistently applied.

However when I got back onto this thread I found that two other people who responded with some support for your post (without in any way being critical of the forum in general) had their responses deleted. That was disappointing. All I can say is I don’t get it either.

Don’t be discouraged, sometimes even in charitable giving there are obstacles. I wish you much happiness and personal fulfillment with the Little Fox, and more immediately success in finding the person or persons who will be lucky enough to have an opportunity to house sit for you over the holidays so that you can enjoy time with your family.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Tracy...

I love Little Fox House.
I sent several of my walkers to you after the Spring and Fall walk and they loved it too.
I feel that there is a great need for a place like yours where people can decompress and make their way slowly back into the "real" world. I also feel a person who is willing to take in pilgrims "donativo" and feed them, carry them to and from the airport, and give them tours in her car for the price of gas is a valuable asset to the Camino and to this forum. There are other people on here who run albergues who advertise in subtle ways. People are also allowed to sell equipment. So I feel a plea for help from a person as supportive of the Camino as you are should be encouraged. If I had the cash, I'd fly over and house sit for you tomorrow.


If not, I hope Ivar will contact me personally and explain to me what I am saying that is wrong.

 

[fortview]

I was looking for your post to show my friend, who was working as an " amigo" in October. It had gone ! He would have loved to come, but has family commitments. I would also have leapt at the opportunity, were it not for family as well.
Had we known of your existence, we would have come to stay when we finished the camino. I was not ready to come home, and desperate for some space to debrief with my husband. We went to finisterre in the end which was fine, but your home would have been better I'm sure.
Am fairly new to this forum, but it seems to me a great place to find out about everything. We could not have had such a fantastic camino without all the wonderful advice and wisdom.
This includes advice about which albergues are better than others, which ones you should not miss etc. I have posted about some myself.is that advertising?
So as far as I'm concerned its great to find out about your house, and we will visit one day I'm sure.

Al the best, I hope you find your sitter.
Helen

 

[renegadepilgrim]

It's quite clear someone on the moderator team has it in for Tracy. Anyone who has met her knows she's upended her life to provide for pilgrims after their walk. The Little Fox House was a highlight from my most recent walk in October.

 

[ivar]

Hi all,

This is complicated... and part of a long conversation that I have had with Tracy of the last few months. I will try to explain my thinking.

My idea for this forum was for it to be a place were pilgrims could share their experiences, give advice and ask questions. As the camino has grown, people that provide a product/service has grown, each year there are more of these services. It is good to learn about these new services, because they could be useful and helpful for pilgrims... but there need to some sort of limit on how many times they can promote their product, otherwise we would drown in "promotional" posts for x y and z.

So, my idea is (and what I have tried to implement):

For anyone that offer a service/product/... on the camino and would like to talk about this in the forum, the rule is:
- You write one post explaining the service/product/... . Introducing it so that other pilgrims/members know about it. Feel free to add photos links, phone numbers,...
- Then once you have introduced it to the forum members, add a link in the signature of your forum posts to this post/or an external website that talks about your service/product/.. You can do so here:
ucp.php?i=profile&mode=signature

I think this way, the rule would be the same for everyone... either you have a book to promote, Hotel, pension, albergue, a house where you let pilgrims stay for a donativo or a charity to promote. If the same rule applies to all these variations of products/services/charities.. , there are no "borderline" cases. Same rule for everyone.

I have explaining this to Tracy for many months. She has posted about her house in various posts, again and again... she had been warned, but it just kept coming.

I admit to one mistake. Deleting the thread about the "House Sitting for Christmast". The other night, I went through the many posts that was made by Tracy about the Fox House and deleted some, including the House Sitting Thread. I was upset because she did not listen.. and I over reacted. I am sorry for this. My mistake.

I will add the "one post to introduce your product/service" and then link in the signature to the forum rules.

The challenge for use moderators is to apply this rule equally for all. Since some days we have a lot of posts, and we might not have time to read them all, I hope that users of the forum will help and "Report a post" that they think break any of the forum rules (by clicking he small icon with an exclamation mark on it). We will look at it and do our best to decide what is right.

We are human and make mistakes. I just made one, and for that I am sorry.

Please feel free comment or come with new ideas on how we can do this in a different/better way. I am open for new suggestions... the ones listed above is what I think is the best way of sorting this out, but you might have a better idea.

Saludos,
Ivar

 

[renegadepilgrim]

No offense Ivar, but Tracy's place is somewhere pilgrims SHOULD know about. It is NOT a commercial enterprise, she has to work a "real" job just to stay afloat. I can't tell you how many people I've told about it via other sites (mostly on FB) who loved the idea and are going to try to fit it into their itinerary.

Instead of limiting the posts, why don't you create some "Stickies" so this information doesn't get lost? Or create a resource page for "After Your Camino" or for "Services Offered"? You could have information for things to see/do in Santiago, plus places to go in Finisterre, Muxia and other parts of Galicia.

And again, no offense, but this WHOLE site is one big advertisement. It's too busy and the look is not clean with all of the ads and other extraneous information. It's difficult to find anything on here and the layout makes no sense. And you say no to commercial stuff, but you have a link to "The Way" movie which then takes you to the "store" for this website....ever since you updated from just the forum to an actual "site" it's been more confusing and difficult to find information.

I appreciate all you do Ivar, but I think you need to figure out a better way of dealing with this kind of stuff. One of the forums I am a part of has a way to post a different colored block in a thread to let people know it's been locked and why...then if they decide to reopen the locked thread, they also explain why. It is a TEAM effort, so not just one moderator is making the decisions.

So, if I start making posts about the Little Fox House because I had such a great experience, am I going to be censored for promoting a commercial enterprise? If so, I think I will go somewhere else.

 

[ivar]

Thanks for your feedback.

No offense Ivar, but Tracy's place is somewhere pilgrims SHOULD know about. It is NOT a commercial enterprise, she has to work a "real" job just to stay afloat.

I understand... this is the same for the forum. I have a real job so that I can fund the running of the forum. For about 5-6 years I was paying for working on the forum.

Instead of limiting the posts, why don't you create some "Stickies" so this information doesn't get lost? Or create a resource page for "After Your Camino" or for "Services Offered"? You could have information for things to see/do in Santiago, plus places to go in Finisterre, Muxia and other parts of Galicia.

Good idea. If someone puts this tougher I will publish it.

And again, no offense, but this WHOLE site is one big advertisement. It's too busy and the look is not clean with all of the ads and other extraneous information. It's difficult to find anything on here and the layout makes no sense. And you say no to commercial stuff, but you have a link to "The Way" movie which then takes you to the "store" for this website....ever since you updated from just the forum to an actual "site" it's been more confusing and difficult to find information.

As I said, if it was not for the advertisement/donations I would have closed the forum a long time ago.

I appreciate all you do Ivar

Thanks

...but I think you need to figure out a better way of dealing with this kind of stuff. One of the forums I am a part of has a way to post a different colored block in a thread to let people know it's been locked and why...then if they decide to reopen the locked thread, they also explain why. It is a TEAM effort, so not just one moderator is making the decisions.

The moderators have a separate section of this forum and we are in constant contact and discuss various topics. This forum is only visible to moderators. So it is a team effort. That said, we can get better and I will make some suggestions so that we act more like one group and not individuals.

So, if I start making posts about the Little Fox House because I had such a great experience, am I going to be censored for promoting a commercial enterprise?

No. But if you do it once every week for 3-4 months, maybe yes.

Thanks for your feedback! Would love to hear from more people...
Ivar

 

[William Marques]

I think you are wilfully misunderstanding Ivar's post renegadepilgrim. Although this is a subject I have not moderated on (at least in my short term memory) I know that moderators and Ivar have discussed how to deal with it for some time.

Of course if you say that such and such a place is wonderful you will not be censored, there is even a thread "What is the one albergue you would say not to miss" dedicated to such posts. What Ivar is trying to do is to keep the posts in this forum non commercial. I hope you understand that the forum as a whole costs Ivar money to keep it going and without a sugar daddy or lottery win to fund it some fund raising is necessary be that by donations or advertising in the periphery.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Is it possible that some members are using the Forum for commercial gain? :?:

 

[Priscillian]

The only thing I am going to say about this is to point out that - both in a PM and here, I have been accused of "posting nothing but 'advertising' for The Little Fox House". Please check your own records, Ivar. I have posted over 600 entries on everything from blisters to mental health issues. This amounts to countless hours doing something that I am accustomed to being paid for. Some of my posts have been controversial. My views on the veracity of the St James´ story are published in both of my novels about the Camino and are well known, especially in the Spanish community, and you will get no argument from the history department of the Univ. of Santiago de C. I make no apologies for this. Had I toed the Catholic line, perhaps I would not have censored in the way I clearly have been, in particular by some members with perhaps their own personal ax to grind.
For the time being, I would very much like to thank the many people who have supported me here and elsewhere, and I am sure the Mods will be happy to know that I shall not be posting in the near future, ON ANY SUBJECT. I have a new book to promote, and another one to research. I don't have time to put pearls before swine any longer.
A professor once said to me: "Tracy, in a university, the politics are so fierce because the stakes are so low." Sounds familiar.....

 

[lovingkindness]

Tracy, please don't go.

 

[renegadepilgrim]

I think you are wilfully misunderstanding Ivar's post renegadepilgrim. Although this is a subject I have not moderated on (at least in my short term memory) I know that moderators and Ivar have discussed how to deal with it for some time.

Of course if you say that such and such a place is wonderful you will not be censored, there is even a thread "What is the one albergue you would say not to miss" dedicated to such posts. What Ivar is trying to do is to keep the posts in this forum non commercial. I hope you understand that the forum as a whole costs Ivar money to keep it going and without a sugar daddy or lottery win to fund it some fund raising is necessary be that by donations or advertising in the periphery.

I am not willfully misunderstanding anything...I understand more than you think I do.

 

[renegadepilgrim]

Oh, and another thought...again, from another forum I am on...contributing members get access to the entire forum, while others who do not contribute only get access to the "basics".

This isn't rocket science. Spend enough time on different forums and you'll find all kinds of great ideas out there.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Falcon posts:
"Is it possible that some members are using the Forum for commercial gain?"

Which specific members are you talking about, Falcon?
What specific commercial gain are you speaking of?
Your post is very suggestive and even titillating.
Can you mention names?
Or will you just leave it to our imagination?

Do you think that your (and my) constant posting about New Balance shoes is our effort by the New Balance company to use the forum for commercial gain?

If you are talking about Tracy, what does she gain by offering a bed, a hot meal, and transportation to weary pilgrims for a donation?

Are you talking about the people who have listed items for sale?
That is financial gain.

Are you talking about Reb, when she mentions The Peaceable Kingdom in Moratinos?
Because I knew of it from her posts on the forum, I was able to contact her one year when I became ill on the Camino, and arrange a place to recover.

Are you talking about the occasion mention of a new albergue popping up?
I think that is GREAT to know about new places to stay.

Are you talking about Sil's walks and book or other people's books?
So far, I know of nobody who has signed up for Sil's walks or my walks because they learned of it on this forum. But even if they did, so what? It was a service that was apparently needed.

Or are you talking about Ivar asking for donations to run this forum?

According to most pilgrims I've spoken with, the Camino is not the spiritual experience they expected. It is a long highway lined with people trying to make some cash, whether they be the little lady selling pancakes or cherries, the lady offering massage, the private albergue, or the restaurant, or the shop selling Chinese knick-knacks to the walkers. Nothing new here... the Camino is ABOUT making money for many, and some of those little ghost towns I walked through the first Camino are now coming to life, partly because of the money spent by pilgrims.

So why not provide a special place for posting such information so it doesn't get lost?
I agree with Renegade...
This forum is the PERFECT place to advertise an albergue such as Tracy's.
It would be a shame to see such a wonderful place go down in flames because the BEST place for getting the word out to pilgrims is censoring the posts.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

If you have never made a nickel from the Forum or the Camino, I would say that is non-commercial.

Several albergue owners/operators have made a single post about their offering. That is commercial, but also informational. Ivar has made it a permissible activity because it describes a resource useful to pilgrims. Ditto books, equipment for sale, and tour operators.

Posts that inform about commercial offerings by others, but do not benefit the poster, are information resources (Mundicamino, Eroski, Pacer Poles, boots, current sales, bus schedules, etc.).

Everyone else? Not so non-commercial! :wink:

 

[Anniesantiago]

Speaking of which, I have some Pacer Poles for sale... better go list them.

 

[LTfit]

...and now back to the OP. Tracy: many of us are behind you and hope that you succeed. It is a wonderful service that you offer and I hope that I will one day be able to meet you and see your piece of paradise.

I took Tracy's original post requesting help as a person-to-person request - without "commercial" intent. Guys, she just wants to spend Christmas with her family! Wish I could help out but would also like to do the same.

After consideration, I hope that you choose to stay.

Happy Thanksgiving,
LT
p.s. on the other hand I think that it is a good idea to have a separate page/sub-forum for those offering services. And if your not interested, don't look!

 

[obinjatoo]

I did not see the original thread but what dates do you need a sitter for? I am considering it...
Robin

 

[markss]

It was good of you Ivar to explain your point of view. Wow after all of this one has to wonder if you ever question yourself as to whether it is worthwhile to keep this forum going.

Today is America's Thankgiving Day. A day that we recognize those things that others do to make this world a better place. Ivar that you do. Thanks!

 

[ivar]

Oh, and another thought...again, from another forum I am on...contributing members get access to the entire forum, while others who do not contribute only get access to the "basics".

This isn't rocket science. Spend enough time on different forums and you'll find all kinds of great ideas out there.

A bit like this forum.. Only registered and logged in members get access to:
pilgrim-introductions/

But I am sure we can be more creative... I guess I should "get out more" and join other forums and see how they are set up.

Good idea!
Ivar

 

[ivar]

p.s. on the other hand I think that it is a good idea to have a separate page/sub-forum for those offering services. And if your not interested, don't look!

We have that here:
gear-for-sale-gear-needed-f106/

Saludos,
Ivar

 

[ivar]

It was good of you Ivar to explain your point of view. Wow after all of this one has to wonder if you ever question yourself as to whether it is worthwhile to keep this forum going.

Today is America's Thankgiving Day. A day that we recognize those things that others do to make this world a better place. Ivar that you do. Thanks!

Thank you!

Happy Thanks giving!
Ivar

 

[tyrrek]

Today is America's Thankgiving Day. A day that we recognize those things that others do to make this world a better place. Ivar that you do. Thanks!

Yes! Thanks to Ivar for all his work, thanks to Tracy for offering the hospitality of her home, thanks to all forum members for their insights, thanks to all those we meet and pass along The Way encouraging each other along one way or the other.... Buen Camino!