standard of living/quality of life in Spain

[SabsP]

I don’t know anyone in Europe who owns a house, except one retired married teacher in Switzerland, and even he has to take a whole day trip if he wants to visit somewhere else because he is in the countryside.

Lots of Europeans own their house!
I know this because of the situation in my country.

Homeownership rate in countries in Europe 2023 | Statista

In the presented European countries, the homeownership rate extended from 42 percent in Switzerland to as much as 96 percent in Albania.

www.statista.com

Home ownership Spain ( numbers 2022 ) : 76 %.

List of countries by home ownership rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sunrise5am]

To be honest, I thought the GNP data would be a decent indicator of the country. Even within the US, I notice the difference in infrastructure between high-income states and low-income states. Since the GNP per capita of the US is about twice that of Spain, I thought Spain would be somewhat less prosperous than the US, which I found to be completely not the case. Public system is much better. Cities are safer. The costs of living, as far as I can tell as a tourist, are lower. Don't have first-hand experience with health-care in Spain, but I heard it is affordable unlike the US. So needless to say, my impression of Spain is quite good except for food (but that's a different issue).

A lot of the infrastructure and economic advancement has been, and continues to be, paid for by taxpayers in Northern Europe via transfers from the EU. For example under the Recovery Plan Spain's received over €30bn, and will get €10bn more. Under the Autonomous Community Fund they'll shortly get €20bn.

In the past the transfers have been truly spectacular, especially once the near-default on Spain's loans back in the 2000s had been resolved to Brussel's satisfaction.

 

[nathanael]

I visited Spain for the first time and came back to the US few weeks ago. My overall impression of the country, after visiting major cities to small towns, is that Spain seems to have higher standard of living/quality of life than the US. Streets are clean, no blighted and dangerous areas, didn't have to use it but I heard that they have excellent yet affordable health care, restaurants are not crazy expensive like in the US so people can go out and enjoy, even small cities have good walking/biking trails and recreation facilities, public transportation system is well-developed, etc. Nominal GNP per capita in the US (~$76000) is more than twice that of Spain (~$32,000). Even GNP per capita at purchasing power parity, which might be a better indicator of real income, shows that the US (~$78,000) is much higher than Spain (~$46,000). On paper, the US should have twice the living standard of Spain (or Spain 2 times poorer than the US), but it certainly does not feel that way. What am I missing here? Can anyone enlighten me on this?

I agree with you and I am from Canada, I can live for a month and a half cheaper than in Canada.

 

[Bob008]

Friends who visit tell about driving from the house to the parking space and it reminds me of how disassociated from others I felt when I lived in the US.

I don't own a car and hop on a train to go to events

It seems that what is missing in the US is walkability/good public transportation system as opposed to everybody owning a car and having to drive everywhere. Conviviality, sense of community or gathering in the square/cafe enjoying the company are all facilitated, to a great extent, by walkability/public transport system. Someone mentioned that there are plenty of places in Spain where the town square is, routinely, filled with people until the very late evening. I doubt that would be feasible if you have to drive your car in congested traffic and then spend more time trying to find a parking space instead of just walking or hopping onto a bus/metro to get to the square.

 

[DonnaS18]

Having lived in Spain for 8 months last year, I think it's much more than just income. What I see in a lot of Spain is an inclusive culture, not dominated by income and expenditure, but by family and community. So, in the small town where I lived, if the weather was good everyone was out in the square, some at cafes, but many more just sitting on benches enjoying the company. No-one was excluded because they couldn't afford, or didn't want, to buy anything.
While the overall average income is lower than the US, I think the gap between rich and poor is smaller, which generally makes for a happier, more equal society.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head . Quality of life is not so much measured by what you have but by who you are as a society.
Happy life means you live longer too generally.

The US recently sent 100 billion in military aid between Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan rather than spending it on there own infrastructure at home or it's own citizens. They do this quite often.
Most US cities look old, tired and stuffed with homeless people.
Priorities.

socialism

 

[Pelegrin]

When I visited Morroco and saw men in terrazas drinking tea ( no alcohol). I thought: here the only purpose of men to meet is pure sociability.

 

[TravellingMan22]

It seems that what is missing in the US is walkability/good public transportation system as opposed to everybody owning a car and having to drive everywhere. Conviviality, sense of community or gathering in the square/cafe enjoying the company are all facilitated, to a great extent, by walkability/public transport system. Someone mentioned that there are plenty of places in Spain where the town square is, routinely, filled with people until the very late evening. I doubt that would be feasible if you have to drive your car in congested traffic and then spend more time trying to find a parking space instead of just walking or hopping onto a bus/metro to get to the square.

As a European who visits the US alot, the lack of public transport is the biggest issue by far. It makes life virtually impossible, as a non driver.

I guess for folks who live there, the lack of transport means you have to drive everywhere, which obviously means folks are isolated, it means there are no random street meets up, and adhoc gatherings just don’t happen. Drives obesity too. Public transport often just seems to be used by poor people outside the major cities, and even the LA subway is quite the experience!

Recently stayed in Miami Gates for two weeks in a very nice neighbourhood. I was there for a sporting event and had to walk 45 mins each way each day. On no occasion did I meet anyone walking. Not one. It was a nice walk and safe. In fact one day a chap picked me up and told me I was crazy walking all that way (he guessed I wasn’t from the USA). Every house seemed to have 3 or 4 vehicles outside it. There was a nice park nearby and again no one was there at all. Came back via Atlanta and downtown on a Saturday was very quiet!

For Spain read many parts of Europe. Even in the poorer areas such as Romania and Bulgaria where I have been the last few days, the transport, from country to country, city to city, and to the suburbs is great. Squares frequented by loads of folks with old men playing cards, young families in squares and so on!

The irony is, and the reason I love visiting the USA, is that I find Americans one of the most friendly, welcoming group of people on earth. I travel alone mainly and as soon as I walk into a bar, the chat starts. Can’t really think of anywhere in the the world where people are as friendly and hospitable, and will engage in conversation with such keenness. Always engaging, always upbeat. They would be for the ‘live outside’ culture!

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Squares frequented by loads of folks with old men playing cards, young families in squares and so on!

I have even seen homeless people playing backgammon on the street in Athens.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I have always felt that the infrastructure of Spain makes the United States look like a Third World country! Today on our Taxi ride from Burgos to Leon I was astonished at how clean the highways were. Everything is in good repair, clean and bright . I saw no homeless camps , no needles in the park, no trash laying around. They put us to shame in my opinion.

 

[Bob P]

I posted nice constructive comments earlier on this string to try to generate thoughts about the cultural differences. Then you just had to start attacking America.

Since the moderators seem to have either quit paying attention to this string,,, or they agree with the American attacks.
Lets find out.
I volunteer at an animal shelter back home in the US. Daily, we feed the animals in their small cages and pens. After feeding, we let them all out into a large play area for a couple of hours. It'sojust so heart-warming to see their great enjoyment of life.

 

[trecile]

I posted nice constructive comments earlier on this string to try to generate thoughts about the cultural differences. Then you just had to start attacking America.

Since the moderators seem to have either quit paying attention to this string,,, or they agree with the American attacks.
Lets find out.
I volunteer at an animal shelter back home in the US. Daily, we feed the animals in their small cages and pens. After feeding, we let them all out into a large play area for a couple of hours. It'sojust so heart-warming to see their great enjoyment of life.

I think that I've read every post on this thread, and I haven't seen any real "attack" on the US, but many posts pointing out some of the deficiencies, mostly in the area if public transportation.

Anyone that has an issue with a post can use the "report" button at the bottom of the post. We moderators don't have time to read every post on every thread, so we rely on members to report posts they find offensive.

 

[trecile]

To add to my post above - there have been posts on this thread that are dangerously close to violating the no politics rule, so please be mindful of the forum rules when posting.
Thank you.

Forum rules

 

[trecile]

I have always felt that the infrastructure of Spain makes the United States look like a Third World country! Today on our Taxi ride from Burgos to Leon I was astonished at how clean the highways were. Everything is in good repair, clean and bright . I saw no homeless camps , no needles in the park, no trash laying around. They put us to shame in my opinion.

Remember, the United States is a huge country, and the conditions are different depending on which state, county, or city you are in, so we shouldn't be making generalizations about it.

 

[TravellingMan22]

Indeed. From a UK standpoint, the three starter trips to USA are Florida, New York and Las Vegas. All great trips of course but convey a certain set of images. Largely positive I might add. Of course replace those three with Seattle, Salt Lake City, and Charleston and you have a very different set of experiences and perceptions.

And what is an American anyway. Such a diverse country. Where I was staying in Miami recently Spanish was spoken was much as English.

 

[Purky]

There's been quite a bit of research done on so called "third places". Whenever I visit Spain (or most other Mediterranean countries I'm familiar with) there's always one thing that stands out to me: greater availability and accessibility of third places. The quality of life OP perceives might have something to do with this.

 

[Liltravlr]

Lots of Europeans own their house!
I know this because of the situation in my country.

Homeownership rate in countries in Europe 2023 | Statista

In the presented European countries, the homeownership rate extended from 42 percent in Switzerland to as much as 96 percent in Albania.

www.statista.com

Home ownership Spain ( numbers 2022 ) : 76 %.

List of countries by home ownership rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hi, to clarify, I meant “house” not “home”. According to the European Commission website, 35% of Europeans in May 2021 lived in detached houses. I just don’t know any except 1. Wikipedia says 33.3% (2015).

 

[dick bird]

I posted nice constructive comments earlier on this string to try to generate thoughts about the cultural differences. Then you just had to start attacking America.

Since the moderators seem to have either quit paying attention to this string,,, or they agree with the American attacks.
Lets find out.
I volunteer at an animal shelter back home in the US. Daily, we feed the animals in their small cages and pens. After feeding, we let them all out into a large play area for a couple of hours. It'sojust so heart-warming to see their great enjoyment of life.

We don’t delete posts that we disagree with. You, and fellow forum members are free to express your opinion so long as you stay within the rules i.e. no sports, politics or religion.

 

[dick bird]

And while we are on the subject, pointing out or claiming that a country does not have very good public transport or health system hardly constitutes an attack.

 

[henrythedog]

At a rough count I’d say at over half the posts drawing a contrast with the US are from US posters. That’s hardly surprising given the provenance of the Camino Forum community.

Anyway - Spain was the topic wasn’t it?

 

[TravellingMan22]

I understand Bobs point - I felt the thread just about stayed ok but of course this forum is frequented by folks that are very pro Spain so a certain direction of thought is likely. Also most folks see the best side of Spain, and in a way just race thru Spain for a month and go home, not really ‘seeing’ Spain. It’s not overly objective and neutral, but it doesn’t need to be be…it’s just a forum chat I guess!

Worth pointing out that a few weeks ago I googled ‘how happy are Americans living in USA with living in their country’ and they overwhelming are according to many surveys.

 

[Kathor1]

Hi, to clarify, I meant “house” not “home”. According to the European Commission website, 35% of Europeans in May 2021 lived in detached houses. I just don’t know any except 1. Wikipedia says 33.3% (2015).

That must be based on a 2019 Eurostat survey (see here).

It does not only tell us that 35% of the population in the EU lives in detached houses but also that:

• The percentage of Spaniards who live in detached houses is lower than 35% of the population. It is even lower than 20%.
• The percentage of Spaniards who live in flats is higher than 60% of the population (and higher than the EU average).
• There is actually not that much difference between Spain and Switzerland as to the type of homes where people live in. Comparison with the USA is not available in this survey.

When you walk on the Camino Francés, you don't notice the flats and their occupation rate. You may walk without even noticing la España vacia, the rural depopulation of Spain, the empty or rather emptied Spain - let alone being aware of the reasons for this development and this fact. I remember a thread from some time ago where a pilgrim from Australia (I think) was shocked by what she saw as poverty in Extremadura (if I remember correctly). And can anybody not notice the difference in apparent prosperity between Navarra/La Rioja and Galicia by just looking at or taking photos of the houses along the trail?

I doubt that some of the generalisations and comparisons made in this thread would hold up under scrutiny.

 

[Marc S.]

Worth pointing out that a few weeks ago I googled ‘how happy are Americans living in USA with living in their country’ and they overwhelming are according to many surveys.

but of course this forum is frequented by folks that are very pro Spain so a certain direction of thought is likely. Also most folks see the best side of Spain, and in a way just race thru Spain for a month and go home, not really ‘seeing’ Spain. It’s not overly objective and neutral, but it doesn’t need to be be…it’s just a forum chat I guess!

Good points. In fact, I always like to compare forum chat with actual research. Fwiw. According to the 2024 World Happiness Report 2024, the USA is nr 23 on the ranking of world happiest countries (6.7 on average) and Spain as nr 36 (6.4).

The world happiest country, of course, remains Finland.

 

[TravellingMan22]

Good points. In fact, I always like to compare forum chat with actual research. Fwiw. According to the 2024 World Happiness Report 2024, the USA ranks as nr 23 on the world happiest countries (6.7 on average) and Spain as nr 36 (6.4).

The world happiest country, of course, remains Finland.

Thank you. Yes I googled this the other day when I saw this thread! Finland followed by a number of its neighbours!

 

[Marc S.]

I doubt that some of the generalisations and comparisons made in this thread would hold up under scrutiny.

I don't doubt this. I am quite sure they would not hold up under scrutiny

 

[C clearly]

I think it is time to call a "time out" on this thread, so I will close it.