Sarria pilgrims

[domigee]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

 

[NorthernLight]

I hope she has a fantastic experience!

 

[MichaelC]

I never heard talk like that on the Camino. People were supportive across the board, regardless of where a pilgrim started. The only times I've come across it is on Facebook and Reddit forums.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments

Sometimes life requires a thick skin. She shouldn't worry.

 

[Bradypus]

There is a lot of unpleasant and unjustified criticism of those who "only" walk from Sarria or the other 100km-ish starting points. A deplorable situation. But I also think that sometimes people are a little too quick to take personal offence when someone complains of the overcrowding and frantic atmosphere of that final 100km. I think it is possible for a pilgrim to express frustration and disappointment and even anger at the overall situation without disparaging the motivations of the individual pilgrims involved or holding them personally culpable.

 

[Dani7]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

A wonderful and heartfelt reminder that we should focus our energies on our own Camino and make a concerted effort not to judge others on theirs. Thank you for this post

 

[domigee]

But I also think that sometimes people are a little too quick to take personal offence when someone complains of the overcrowding and frantic atmosphere of that final 100km.

I’ve been one of them, @Bradypus. I mean, the ones complaining ....

 

[Bradypus]

I’ve been one of them, @Bradypus. I mean, the ones complaining ....

Me too. On my last Camino Frances I passed through Sarria in a rage at what the place has now become. But I would not put the blame for that on the individual pilgrims I met that day.

 

[C clearly]

I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments

Maybe it is better if she is aware of the fact that these discussions do take place. As in any interesting endeavour, there will be naive newbies, semi-professional purists, elite veterans, and simple oddballs - most of whom have opinions! I would encourage her to put these things in perspective of 300,000 people per year enjoying the Camino.

That is part of the whole experience - the Camino is not Lalaland.

 

[Roland49]

Oh, depends on the other pilgrims,
I walked in July and never argued or get worried about the pilgrims starting in Sarria.
Ok, is was much more crowded after Sarria, but who cares?

We just have one life, let's not judge each other on the things we (only when it is obvioulsy unlawful) do or believe.
If it's 100k to get a Compostela, than it is OK to start in Sarria and claim one.

 

[t2andreo]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

Regardless of our sometimes jaded opinions about various Camino routes, the fact remains that Camino Rule One applies... To wit... “each pilgrim walks his or her own Camino. “

None of us has the standing or right to judge the worthiness of anyone’s choice of pilgrimage, long or short. We may agree or not with any other Pilgrim’s choice of route, but we must respect the effort and intention of that pilgrim.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dani7]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

Reread your post again. This lady may be stronger than you or she thinks (I may be wrong since I don’t know either of you). She raised a family, is raising funds for cancer research and believes in turning the other cheek. She is as worthy as anyone walking any km on any route. She sounds solid. All we need to stay strong in any adventure is to remember why we are doing it. Everything else is a sidebar. I have a gut feeling she’ll be fine.

 

[RemysMimi]

There is a lot of unpleasant and unjustified criticism of those who "only" walk from Sarria or the other 100km-ish starting points. A deplorable situation. But I also think that sometimes people are a little too quick to take personal offence when someone complains of the overcrowding and frantic atmosphere of that final 100km. I think it is possible for a pilgrim to express frustration and disappointment and even anger at the overall situation without disparaging the motivations of the individual pilgrims involved or holding them personally culpable.

I must admit that I may have been one of those people who was a tad annoyed at some of the pilgrims after Sarria. My annoyance was not that they were starting from there or that the way was more crowded. That did not bother me at all. What bothered me was that some of them were downright rude (pushing and shoving in the establishments to get the stamps) without so much as an "excuse me" or "sorry". I did not, however, voice nor display my annoyance outwardly (tried to exhibit the patience I was praying for along the way). I politely picked up my belongings and went on my way. I think the consideration that those starting in Sarria are asking for goes both ways. I actually got a chuckle out of all of the busses with the tourists hopping on and off.

 

[GettingThere]

On my first Camino in 2015, the crowds after Sarria came as quite a shock even though we had been expecting them - after weeks of relative quiet, the excited chatter, the singing, and the sheer numbers were a bit overwhelming and I felt myself starting to feel grumpy and resentful. Then as more came up behind us I heard a rather loud male voice pontificating about this and that, telling someone about the best way to do this and wear that, and I thought "what a know-it-all", and "oh do be quiet!" Then I looked over my shoulder, and there was this very tall young man, fresh-faced and bright-eyed, striding along in the clean new-looking clothes of a new pilgrim. And flanking him were I think probably his grandparents, and elderly couple (both much shorter than him!), looking up at him with such pride and love. My eyes just filled with tears. And just like that all my grumpy resentment of all those loud Sarria-starters just melted away, and from then on I just enjoyed all the joyfulness and newness and busyness. I still get a lump in my throat when I remember it.

Walking the Camino from Sarria to Santiago is no little achievement, and for some is either a lifelong dream or perhaps a toe-in-the-water to be followed by more as confidence grows. Anyone who looks down on those who "only" walk from Sarria (or Tui, or Ourense, or wherever) is not worth arguing with - they may have walked a longer Camino, but they have totally missed the point.

 

[Deleted member 73526]

for a cancer charity

As a person walking for charity (and - reading between the lines - with a religious motivation), I would expect her to get nothing but respect from everyone she meets on the camino. Distance Schmistance.

 

[Saint Mike II]

I will own up to having made similar comments - but only where I have actually experienced the "bucket list" tick pilgrims, running along with nothing but a water bottle and a walking stick. Not sure why with this extreme load she needed the sticks.
In the case of the lady you mention I have nothing but respect. Hopefully she has a great camino experience and receives the joy of walking into Santiago.

 

[simeon]

From experience walking in a group like this is very different from walking solo. I found that most of my interactions were with fellow group members which insulated me somewhat from some of the negativity that could be encountered from fellow solo pilgrims. That said I didn't encounter negativity on the contrary, when people heard that it was for a charity I was walking they were either intrigued or impressed. My first Camino adventure was a charity group one which gave me the Camino bug and confidence to do many more solo over the years

 

[Bradypus]

My annoyance was not that they were starting from there or that the way was more crowded. That did not bother me at all. What bothered me was that some of them were downright rude (pushing and shoving in the establishments to get the stamps) without so much as an "excuse me" or "sorry".

Bad behaviour is unacceptable anywhere. And it may well be that with so many more people in that final section we see and hear more of it there. But it is not exclusive to the final 100km. I have personally witnessed some very obnoxious behaviour on the Caminos over the years - some of it while several hundred km short of Santiago. I have even added 10 or 15km to my day on occasion to leave a particularly vile specimen of it well behind me. It would be a nonsense to try to divide the Camino world into "Saint Jean saints" and "Sarria sinners".

 

[Turga]

Some of these ’tour pilgrims’ (if you’ll pardon the expression) may exhibit unpleasant behavior because they have been given unrealistic expectations. I passed some road junction after Sarria just as a bus full of people was unloaded. It took me some time to walk past the group and all the while, I heard one particular woman in a very loud nasal voice constantly complaining. One of the things she said was ‘They told us this would be a spiritual experience; I don’t feel anything spiritual about it – it’s just hot!’ and I thought to myself ‘Surprise, surprise!’ I got ahead of them and stopped at a bar with a lot of tables outside. Shortly after the whole group from the bus came pouring into the bar and filled all the tables and yes, you guessed it, a loud nasal voice asked me ‘Is it all right that we sit here at your table?’ Long story short, we got to talk and she turned out to be a very nice and sweet lady that was just disappointed and frustrated because the ‘Camino Adventure’ didn’t meet all the expectations that she had been fed with. Another little Camino lesson learned.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

Thank you
The Compostela does not state distance for a reason
God bless

 

[Bradypus]

The Compostela does not state distance for a reason

The current version does however include a statement about the minimum distance by foot or bike. A relatively recent addition that the pilgrim office has not bothered to include in its translation of the Compostela text on its website. No mention of that rule in the version I received after my first two Caminos.

I feel very strongly that the decision made back in 1993 to introduce a 100km minimum distance for receiving a Compostela was badly misjudged. It has distorted peoples' perceptions of what "pilgrimage" actually means. And ultimately leads to the sort of narcissistic competitive oneupmanship which sees someone who walks a shorter distance than oneself as a less worthy being. Or that those who choose to visit a shrine by car or bus or airplane are not pilgrims at all. The most recent addition to the cathedral's rules for receiving a Compostela - that you must now walk/ride the final 100km of your journey on one of a limited number of approved routes - simply reinforces this perception that it is the amount of physical effort and adherence to some specific but apparently arbitrary rules which define an individual as a pilgrim rather than their religious or spiritual intent which is what the Compostela actually claims to be testifying to. In the not-so-distant past there was no minimum distance specified for receiving a Compostela. But pilgrims who wanted to receive one were expected to give some personal account of their reasons for walking and their experience along the way. For me it is the mental and spiritual attitude of a person which defines them as a pilgrim. Something that bears little or no relation to the number of stamps in their credencial.

 

[steve 217]

Ive done the whole of the. French way followed by the Portuguese, in june i took my 81 year old Mother back to the Camino to walk “just from Sarria” it was the most wonderful experience and for her a real test of endurance .
Whoever walks the Camino whether it be from Le Puy St Jean or from Sarria is a pilgrim and deserves our respect .
The call to the Camino needs to be fulfilled whatever our personal circumstances allow ,whether that be a week or a month at a time . The smile on my Mothers face as she walked into Santiago after doing a final 30km day will live with me forever .

 

[Deleted member 3000]

On my first Camino in 2015, the crowds after Sarria came as quite a shock even though we had been expecting them

Relative. Walk the Camino Aragones and turn the corner at Eunate!! The shock is worse than Sarria.

 

[cathn]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

i am in total agreement with you.
We are not here to judge.
I have also heard these negative comments.How about we all embraced them and made them feel welcome.

 

[easygoing]

Thanks for your post. It's a good reminder for all to keep trail mutterings to yourself. I get a little grumpy when several perfectly groomed women walk by me with a day pack or less as I trudge up the hill. I am not sure why this bothers me but I think it's a personal problem (as most judgement is).
My best self thinks it's behavior that matters more than distance walked. I have met excited Sarria high schoolers with the joy of the Camino in their eyes and St. Jean pilgrims that just are anxious to finish as fast as possible.
And although one woman I saw wasn't even carrying a day pack later I saw her treating big blisters and I realized that sacrifice is not always visible. It's making the effort to walk every day despite wanting to quit or hurting is what makes a true pilgrim.
Plus, of course, arriving at the tomb of Santiago to give thanks.
I am also a cancer survivor

 

[Craig Kiwi]

I’m presently on the Camino. This is my third time on the Camino Frances.
I have to say that I’ve been very angry and equally very humiliated by my judgement.
Firstly the angry:
In Puente la Reina we were waiting to check into an Albergue. When a well dressed- sweat free man in his 60’s pushed to the front of the queue and pulled 2 Compostela a from his pocket. Our host simply stamped and signed them. The man shook his hand and walked away. While standing in line I quizzed him as to whether he was a genuine pilgrim? He just shrugged his shoulders, smiled and quickly left. Clearly someone who was trying to win some sort of satisfaction by cheating his way through the Camino.
Humiliated: in 2017 my friend and I came across a father and daughter couple on the first day leaving SJPDP.
We crossed paths at least every 2-3 days. Then we realised that the daughter was catching the bus or taxis more than walking. We worked out that she may have just done 100kms of the 800!
So how did we feel when we saw her lining up for a Compostela certificate in Santiago???
Her father asked us to join them for breakfast after we got our certificate.
He then explained how his daughter had spent her High school years suffering depression and anxiety and getting to Santiago via feet, bus or taxi was something he’d never expected of her. What a sobering moment for me. We all do our own Camino and who am I to resent her this achievement and Compostela. So 2 lessons for me!

 

[Former member 69452]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

AMEN!!! It's quite hurtful to think that so-called pilgrims can be so discriminatory! To each his/her own Camino!

 

[gersevink]

Thanks for your post. It's a good reminder for all to keep trail mutterings to yourself. I get a little grumpy when several perfectly groomed women walk by me with a day pack or less as I trudge up the hill. I am not sure why this bothers me but I think it's a personal problem (as most judgement is).
My best self thinks it's behavior that matters more than distance walked. I have met excited Sarria high schoolers with the joy of the Camino in their eyes and St. Jean pilgrims that just are anxious to finish as fast as possible.
And although one woman I saw wasn't even carrying a day pack later I saw her treating big blisters and I realized that sacrifice is not always visible. It's making the effort to walk every day despite wanting to quit or hurting is what makes a true pilgrim.
Plus, of course, arriving at the tomb of Santiago to give thanks.
I am also a cancer survivor

Ik ben ook een overlevende van kanker en heb me enorm geërgerd aan de lawaai papagaaien op de camino zeker de laatste 100 km en dan heb ik het nog niet over de graffiti gehad en het toiletpapier. Maar verder was het een mooie camino frances!

 

[RemysMimi]

Bad behaviour is unacceptable anywhere. And it may well be that with so many more people in that final section we see and hear more of it there. But it is not exclusive to the final 100km. I have personally witnessed some very obnoxious behaviour on the Caminos over the years - some of it while several hundred km short of Santiago. I have even added 10 or 15km to my day on occasion to leave a particularly vile specimen of it well behind me. It would be a nonsense to try to divide the Camino world into "Saint Jean saints" and "Sarria sinners".

It was not my intent to "divide" anything or anyone. My experience on the Camino was mostly positive. As I mentioned, I POLITELY picked up my things and moved on with comment or untoward gesture. I was merely recounting my experience on that part of the Camino as many were doing on this thread. I did not experience it earlier on nor would I condone it had it happened. That is not to say that it did not happen nor was I trying to imply that it didn't. I just didn't experience it.

 

[alhartman]

Note that this Forum, as much as we love it, is a bubble. And a bubble from which it is very dangerous to extrapolate to the Camino as a whole. Only about 14% of the Compostela go to English speakers, and Forum users are but a small part of that. Cannot say for Facebook, as I rarely use, as I have concluded that it is the modern equivalent of writing on outhouse walls.
Reality is that it will get busy from Sarria on (but I suspect that in this shoulder season it will be tolerable); you can tell her that she need not take any judgments from others as important (including perceived Forum grumbling). She is doing a wonderful act for a charitable purpose as well as personally gaining from a camino experience-as we all have.
buen camino

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

The current version does however include a statement about the minimum distance by foot or bike. A relatively recent addition that the pilgrim office has not bothered to include in its translation of the Compostela text on its website. No mention of that rule in the version I received after my first two Caminos.

I feel very strongly that the decision made back in 1993 to introduce a 100km minimum distance for receiving a Compostela was badly misjudged. It has distorted peoples' perceptions of what "pilgrimage" actually means. And ultimately leads to the sort of narcissistic competitive oneupmanship which sees someone who walks a shorter distance than oneself as a less worthy being. Or that those who choose to visit a shrine by car or bus or airplane are not pilgrims at all. The most recent addition to the cathedral's rules for receiving a Compostela - that you must now walk/ride the final 100km of your journey on one of a limited number of approved routes - simply reinforces this perception that it is the amount of physical effort and adherence to some specific but apparently arbitrary rules which define an individual as a pilgrim rather than their religious or spiritual intent which is what the Compostela actually claims to be testifying to. In the not-so-distant past there was no minimum distance specified for receiving a Compostela. But pilgrims who wanted to receive one were expected to give some personal account of their reasons for walking and their experience along the way. For me it is the mental and spiritual attitude of a person which defines them as a pilgrim. Something that bears little or no relation to the number of stamps in their credencial.

without wanting to get into a pointless debate... I am pretty sure the Compostela does not state any refrence to distances. The credential does, as well as (obviously) the Distance Certificate. Buen Camino

 

[Bradypus]

without wanting to get into a pointless debate... I am pretty sure the Compostela does not state any refrence to distances. The credential does, as well as (obviously) the Distance Certificate. Buen Camino

Have you read the second paragraph of the current version of the Compostela?: "perfecto itinere sive pedibus sive equitando post postrema centum milia metrorum, birota vero post ducenta". My Latin is extremely rusty but I think that means something like 'completed the last 100,000 metres (ie 100km) by foot or on horse, or by bike the last 200km.'

 

[Kathor1]

without wanting to get into a pointless debate... I am pretty sure the Compostela does not state any refrence to distances.

Have a closer look. The distances for pilgrims on foot, horse or bicycle have been on the Compostela for several years already. The first three words underlined in purple say 100 km and the last underlined word says 200. The words for feet, riding and bicycle are underlined in green.

 

[t2andreo]

Some of these ’tour pilgrims’ (if you’ll pardon the expression) may exhibit unpleasant behavior because they have been given unrealistic expectations. I passed some road junction after Sarria just as a bus full of people was unloaded. It took me some time to walk past the group and all the while, I heard one particular woman in a very loud nasal voice constantly complaining. One of the things she said was ‘They told us this would be a spiritual experience; I don’t feel anything spiritual about it – it’s just hot!’ and I thought to myself ‘Surprise, surprise!’ I got ahead of them and stopped at a bar with a lot of tables outside. Shortly after the whole group from the bus came pouring into the bar and filled all the tables and yes, you guessed it, a loud nasal voice asked me ‘Is it all right that we sit here at your table?’ Long story short, we got to talk and she turned out to be a very nice and sweet lady that was just disappointed and frustrated because the ‘Camino Adventure’ didn’t meet all the expectations that she had been fed with. Another little Camino lesson learned.

You can have your Camino... “good, fast or cheap...pick two....” Walking only from Sarria is, in general evidence of choosing the fast and cheap selections.

Rarely, IMHO, is it good. Good, per se, usually requires more time and distance, again in my experience and opinion.

When I do this, it takes me the better part of seven days walking just to get in the Camino groove. Doing the very short stretch from Sarria or Tui only, may qualify a pilgrim for a Compostela, but I suggest it will not provide enough “contact time” to get the really complete experience.

I am NOT passing judgment on those who choose to do only this much. Everyone is entitled to their Camino. I suppose my observation is that you can only expect a spiritual or experiential result, commensurate with effort and time invested.

hope this helps.

 

[Robo]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.
Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.
It is a BIG adventure.

Your friend will have a great experience.
As I walk quite slowly I get a chance to chat with many people on these 'group caminos' from Sarria.
They have all been very nice, very genuine and have some truly amazing stories about their motivation for the journey.
I really enjoy that final section from Sarria for this reason.
It provides yet another, really good perspective of the Camino.

There may be a 1 or 2 who judge negatively, but that attitude is a reflection of 'them' (the one making the judgement) , not your friend........

 

[domigee]

As usual, you’ve all been so nice in your answers, thank you. I was only letting off steam (sorry) after reading comments which upset me. I shouldn’t have let it get to me.

The friend I was talking about is indeed very strong, she’ll cope with everything
She’s fitter than me at the moment, that’s for sure

It’s just that it got to me that some people (and I include myself in this) don’t realise how much time and effort it takes.... to ‘just ‘ do 100km ... because of our different circumstances....
And I suppose it humbled me, seeing how much had gone into it.
Anyway, thank you all very much

 

[Kanga]

And here are some of those Sarria pilgrims!

 

[VNwalking]

You can have your Camino... “good, fast or cheap...pick two....” Walking only from Sarria is, in general evidence of choosing the fast and cheap selections.

Rarely, IMHO, is it good. Good, per se, usually requires more time and distance, again in my experience and opinion.

It's not a matter of time, but a matter of attitude
So for someone whose inner world is in sync with the camino, being in the groove is just a matter of walking out the door. Whereas others of us may never get it, even after weeks.
I suspect @domigee's friend is more in sync than not.

And 'fast and cheap' is totally relative. There are folks for whom 100K is an unimaginable distance. It's actually no small accomplishment:

Ive done the whole of the. French way followed by the Portuguese, in june i took my 81 year old Mother back to the Camino to walk “just from Sarria”

I hope when I'm 81 I can 'just' walk from Sarria, and finish with a 30km day, too.
Wonderful.

Heartfelt buen camino to your friend, @domigee! May she have a wonderful and fulfilling walk

 

[MarkyD]

AMEN!!! It's quite hurtful to think that so-called pilgrims can be so discriminatory! To each his/her own Camino!

Perhaps there should be a penalty for such discriminatory remarks. I suggest the person responsible walk another Camino, or two........

 

[SeattleJen]

I've been thinking about this the last week or so. I was very lucky in that my job situation allowed me to take off for 8 weeks to walk from SJPDP to Santiago (plus screw off time). I wasn't annoyed by the "Sarria pilgrims" at all, especially since I had been asked for a month why there were not very many Americans my age on the path (my theory: in the States in general, only the young or those reaching retirement can afford the luxury of taking the time off from work -- a theory somewhat supported by suddenly meeting dozens and dozens of fellow Americans after Sarria). I became irritated a bit by the fact that restroom lines suddenly became monstrous, and irritated by a few of the fresh-faced pilgrims asking me if I was going to be ok because I was walking more slowly or stopping to rest a lot or just looked weary (answer: my body was pretty broken down by then). But I also found it funny/refreshing that all of those new pilgrims were so interested in ME, my stories, and my tips/advice at the bars. The first day out of Sarria, new pilgrims had gathered around my table making me feel like an old abuela sharing my ancient wisdom picked up on the previous 650 kms. "Let me tell you about the flooding in Navarra... Let me tell you about losing my boots on the meseta... Let me tell you about the doctor in Burgos..."

Now I find myself itching to do it again with my 20-something son who is eager to go... but guess what? MY work situation has changed and I now rejoin the ranks of middle aged Americans with only two weeks of vacation time per year. To walk the camino again in the next 4-6 years, I too will need to start somewhere just behind the 100 km mark.

God bless the Sarria pilgrims.

 

[Montana Jayne]

Ive done the whole of the. French way followed by the Portuguese, in june i took my 81 year old Mother back to the Camino to walk “just from Sarria” it was the most wonderful experience and for her a real test of endurance .
Whoever walks the Camino whether it be from Le Puy St Jean or from Sarria is a pilgrim and deserves our respect .
The call to the Camino needs to be fulfilled whatever our personal circumstances allow ,whether that be a week or a month at a time . The smile on my Mothers face as she walked into Santiago after doing a final 30km day will live with me forever .

Ive done the whole of the. French way followed by the Portuguese, in june i took my 81 year old Mother back to the Camino to walk “just from Sarria” it was the most wonderful experience and for her a real test of endurance .
Whoever walks the Camino whether it be from Le Puy St Jean or from Sarria is a pilgrim and deserves our respect .
The call to the Camino needs to be fulfilled whatever our personal circumstances allow ,whether that be a week or a month at a time . The smile on my Mothers face as she walked into Santiago after doing a final 30km day will live with me forever .

Ah, Steve, you are just awesome to take your mother on the camino. What memories you have given her!

Ive done the whole of the. French way followed by the Portuguese, in june i took my 81 year old Mother back to the Camino to walk “just from Sarria” it was the most wonderful experience and for her a real test of endurance .
Whoever walks the Camino whether it be from Le Puy St Jean or from Sarria is a pilgrim and deserves our respect .
The call to the Camino needs to be fulfilled whatever our personal circumstances allow ,whether that be a week or a month at a time . The smile on my Mothers face as she walked into Santiago after doing a final 30km day will live with me forever .

Ah, Steve, you are awesome for taking your 81 year old mom on the camino. What memories you've given her!

 

[Turga]

I suppose my observation is that you can only expect a spiritual or experiential result, commensurate with effort and time invested.

That’s fine, as long as by ’you’ you mean yourself. Don’t impose the results of your personal experiences on everybody else.

 

[MarkyD]

That’s fine, as long as by ’you’ you mean yourself. Don’t impose the results of your personal experiences on everybody else.

Hi Turga, I think both you and t2andreo make valid points, well to my understanding at least. It seems to me that sometimes posts somehow cause a chain reaction of comments (of which I am also adding to here) that don't directly respond to the person posting the original post. Maybe it's the nature of these "anonymous communications" via the forum, in the sense we don't actually know or see the person making the comments (except those who have met face-to-face at some point), that it reminds me of email culture in the workplace. Depending on our interpretations of meaning, a trigger to respond defensively or critically can come about all too often. Without seeing or knowing the person who writes the email, there can be a tendency to judge intent and read meaning into words, phrases etc. where perhaps the originator didn't intend such meaning.
It's just an observation from reading and writing on this forum for almost a year now. I don't know if it's something that others may also have detected, to a greater or lesser degree others might have noticed this aspect of forum communication. It's our human nature to be different, but just like all those beautiful flowers along the Camino none are the same - yet all are so beautiful and special.

 

[t2andreo]

Have a closer look. The distances for pilgrims on foot, horse or bicycle have been on the Compostela for several years already. The first three words underlined in purple say 100 km and the last underlined word says 200. The words for feet, riding and bicycle are underlined in green.

View attachment 65455

OOOOH! I learned something new today. This is information I can USE when volunteering.

Thank you!

 

[t2andreo]

That’s fine, as long as by ’you’ you mean yourself. Don’t impose the results of your personal experiences on everybody else.

Actially, I used the word “you” in the “one” sense. It ought to have read “...one should not expect...”

Now, I quite understand that you may disagree with this. That is okay. We can agree to disagree, and hopefully still remain friendly.

I just believe, that in a global sense the benefits derived from any action or activity are proportional to the effort one puts into the action or activity. That’s it!

I am not seeking to denigrate anyone who does as much as THEY feel appropriate or sufficient. Rule One is the backstop to any opinion on this matter.

At the end of it all, each pilgrim does their own Camino. My opinion was just that... my humble opinion.

Hope this clarifies.

 

[Former member 49149]

The current version does however include a statement about the minimum distance by foot or bike. A relatively recent addition that the pilgrim office has not bothered to include in its translation of the Compostela text on its website. No mention of that rule in the version I received after my first two Caminos.

I feel very strongly that the decision made back in 1993 to introduce a 100km minimum distance for receiving a Compostela was badly misjudged. It has distorted peoples' perceptions of what "pilgrimage" actually means. And ultimately leads to the sort of narcissistic competitive oneupmanship which sees someone who walks a shorter distance than oneself as a less worthy being. Or that those who choose to visit a shrine by car or bus or airplane are not pilgrims at all. The most recent addition to the cathedral's rules for receiving a Compostela - that you must now walk/ride the final 100km of your journey on one of a limited number of approved routes - simply reinforces this perception that it is the amount of physical effort and adherence to some specific but apparently arbitrary rules which define an individual as a pilgrim rather than their religious or spiritual intent which is what the Compostela actually claims to be testifying to. In the not-so-distant past there was no minimum distance specified for receiving a Compostela. But pilgrims who wanted to receive one were expected to give some personal account of their reasons for walking and their experience along the way. For me it is the mental and spiritual attitude of a person which defines them as a pilgrim. Something that bears little or no relation to the number of stamps in their credencial.

I have just tuned in to this thread, and reading your post I have to agree strongly with : " I feel very strongly that the decision made back in 1993 to introduce a 100km minimum distance for receiving a Compostela was badly misjudged. It has distorted peoples' perceptions of what "pilgrimage" actually means. "
Now, I will have a think about it! I have no argument at all about anyone who wants to walk the distance that they can manage, and try to get the appropriate document to witness to their achievement. You have brought up a key point, and I am glad to be reminded of it. We may all dream, some of us may walk, but the pilgrimage we make is interior, the walk is whatever we want to say it is. Pilgrimage can happen right at home. let those who live with you tell you what they see!
Off my soap box now, thanks for the words, @Bradyypus.

 

[craiger1511]

I’m completely overwhelmed with nods and smiles to your post; and, by the responses of Forum members ... this a unique group of people who are brought together by a common love of the Caminos and who remember to always love and respect others with whom we share our appreciation the Caminos. Abrazos a todos.

 

[Turga]

We can agree to disagree, and hopefully still remain friendly.

I hope ....

 

[Jen&Mike]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

It is an interesting phenomenon that happens in Sarria that clearly separates pilgrims into distinct groups, those who started before Sarria and those who did not. I contemplated this quite often during that last 100 kilometers of my Camino earlier this year. For me, and for many others we walked with, it was very difficult to come to terms with the changes and added difficulties we faced after Sarria because of the huge increase in the number of pilgrims on the trail. I wrote about it in a blog post (https://newadventuresofjenandmike.home.blog/2019/05/02/camino-update-day-32-the-struggle-is-real/) and was able to come to terms with what I saw. Whatever adversities or negativity your friend might face, she will walk her own Camino and, hopefully, find a positive outcome in the end.

 

[ChrisT]

Hi Domigee,

Tell you friend not to worry as she wont find any negativity on the Camino from Sarria.

My 73 year old father and I did the Camino from Sarria Nov 2017 and everyone we met were really friendly and no one resented the people starting in Sarria. It was quite on the Camino in November so perhaps that's why we didn't encounter any.

We started from Sarria for 2 reasons, my working and not being able to take more time off work and my fathers fitness, it was quite an achievement for him to walk the last 100km or so.

We certainly wouldn't have appreciated the pity @Jen&Mike talks of in his blog.

Hope she enjoys it as much as we did.

 

[alhartman]

In a fit of nostalgia, I am re-reading Hoinacki (one of my favorite reads before my first camino.
He walked in 1993 and I got the idea somewhere in his book, that the cathedral had dropped the requirement from 150km to 100km for that holy year..
Inquiring minds want to know:
Anybody know if this is true?
And if so, what were the earlier requirements-before the 150km and 100km.

 

[Bradypus]

In a fit of nostalgia, I am re-reading Hoinacki (one of my favorite reads before my first camino.
He walked in 1993 and I got the idea somewhere in his book, that the cathedral had dropped the requirement from 150km to 100km for that holy year..
Inquiring minds want to know:
Anybody know if this is true?
And if so, what were the earlier requirements-before the 150km and 100km.

I walked in 1990 and I never heard of a 150km minimum distance or any other fixed minimum distance prior to the 1993 100km rule. That does not mean that it didn't exist but it was not mentioned in my guidebooks or by anyone I met. The Camino Frances was effectively the only Camino in use then and that would have made a point a little beyond O Cebreiro the last acceptable starting point for the Compostela. I have never heard of that being the case. @David Tallan walked a year before I did and might know more about it.

 

[Burro]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Have a closer look. The distances for pilgrims on foot, horse or bicycle have been on the Compostela for several years already. The first three words underlined in purple say 100 km and the last underlined word says 200. The words for feet, riding and bicycle are underlined in green.

View attachment 65455

awesome, i stand corrected

 

[Bradypus]

In a fit of nostalgia, I am re-reading Hoinacki (one of my favorite reads before my first camino.
He walked in 1993 and I got the idea somewhere in his book, that the cathedral had dropped the requirement from 150km to 100km for that holy year..

I have just had a quick look at Hoinacki's book again and found a mention of the 150km requirement at the point where he receives his Compostela. Still rings no bells for me though. Interestingly even back then you can read an author sourly expressing some unhappiness at the idea that a Compostela can be received for as little as walking 150km.

 

[Former member 83942]

“I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.”

You don’t have to worry. We felt ourselves privileged to be able to hike from Sarria to SdC. It was no small task for us. We have limited vacation, I have back and leg issues, and my wife has leg issues and asthma. I watched my wife struggle along quietly, with the muscles of her legs visibly cramping, continuously day after day. Yes we were pilgrims, and no less than folks who made the hike from SJPdP or somewhere farther.

That said, none of “long haul” pilgrims made any comments about us being only Sarria pilgrims. Our issues were not visible to others so it was not out of pity. They were encouraging, friendly, and joyful, and only offering advice in a friendly and helpful way. They were also an inspiration, pulling us along in their joyful wake!

Just walk your Camino and you will be fine. There may be a jerk here or there...but they would be the same folks complaining in the line behind you in the grocery store line back home. You can’t escape them all of the time. Just hike and let it take you where the roads take you!

 

[Kathor1]

100km rule

Fernando Lalanda wrote a booklet about the history of the credencial. According to this, the 100 km rule was introduced in the middle of a Holy Year, namely in July 1999. He even includes a copy of the letter that the Oficina de Peregrinaciones S.A.M.I Catedral sent out to a number of institutions, among them the parishes of the Caminos de Santiago, those responsible for the albergues and the Amigos del Camino. The author of this official letter starts by saying that to obtain a Compostela, the pilgrimage has to be made in principle from the front door to the tomb of the Apostle Saint James. As this place can be very different in distance (from Holland, France, Roncesvalles ...), the pilgrimage may be shortened to a minimum of 100 km on foot or horseback and 200 km on bicycle. Then there's a bit that I don't quite understand about those who do parts of the Camino because of a lack of time or other reasons but I think it means they'll get a Compostela only for the last 100 km and not for every 100 km section. He asks that this is explained to people because a lack of proper information can lead to tensions. ☺

By the sound of it, it also appears to me that a lot of parishes organised very short pilgrimages, for example only from Monte do Gozo, which is a distance of just over 4 km, to the tomb, and that was the reason for introducing a minimum distance for obtaining a Compostela, and basically from one day to the next, but my Spanish is not good enough to be sure that I understand this correctly. I've found no mention of an earlier 150 km minimum distance.

 

[Jim]

Yes, it would be a big adventure for many, many pilgrims. I have female relatives who have walked only from Sarria or Tui and the comments they got from others were on the order of "gee, you're brave!" And this is because they are very fearful themselves of doing anything with the undertaking required for doing a camino, particularly those who are close to retirement or actually retired. People come from different upbringings and experiences. For example, if one never had the opportunity to leave their town for most of their lives, they would approach such a trip with greater trepidation than someone who had say, served in our armed forces, or been in a young program with practical outdoor training. And there are personality differences as well. This lady's camino could be no less significant than someone else who walked in from, say, one of the Baltic states or wherever. Buen camino to her and the group! And thank you for sharing your feelings. They are points well taken!

 

[Bradypus]

Fernando Lalando wrote a booklet about the history of the credencial. According to this, the 100 km rule was introduced in the middle of a Holy Year, namely in July 1999.

Interesting. Sometime ago @Rebekah Scott posted a statement from FICS written by Anton Pombo in which he presented their case for increasing the minimum distance to 300km. That statement links the introduction of the 100km rule to the 1993 Holy Year. As my first Camino was in 1990 and my second in 2002 all I can personally say is that it happened sometime between those two dates

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/fics-forum-why-change-the-100-km-rule-to-300-km.39220/#post-391375

 

[alhartman]

@Bradypus --I am not sure how much of an accurate source Hoinacki is. I like his diary and insights much more than Coehlo (1986 walk) or MacLaine (1994 walk) which I read in preparation for my first camino.
But Hoinacki really is a grumpy, judgmental pilgrim. He did have an interesting life and I would have loved to share a pilgrim menu with him http://www.conversations.org/story.php?sid=5

But it does seem clear that from 1993 the minimum distance was 100km (a winning advocacy of Galicia after reading Rebekah's articulate statement)

 

[Bradypus]

I am not sure how much of an accurate source Hoinacki is. I like his diary and insights much more than Coehlo (1986 walk) or MacLaine (1994 walk) which I read in preparation for my first camino.

He would not have to be very accurate to be a more reliable source than those two

 

[Kathor1]

Interesting. Sometime ago @Rebekah Scott posted a statement from FICS written by Anton Pombo in which he presented their case for increasing the minimum distance to 300km. That statement links the introduction of the 100km rule to the 1993 Holy Year.

Who would dare to doubt the words of such eminence? An article in La Voz de Galicia does indeed say that it all dates back to 1992 when the Oficina had only one person as staff and the dean proposed the 100 km requirement to the Xunta who agreed. The carta I posted earlier was perhaps a cry for help in 1999 to remind everyone of the already established rule?

But no matter how one wants to look at it, there is something that separates the (continuous) long distance pilgrims from the shorter distance pilgrims. And that's a neutral statement, it doesn't mean that one group is better or more deserving than the other. And the 100 km rule does cut the Camino Frances into two distinct parts.

BTW, in the article, a distance of 150 km is proposed as a possible new rule, with the start in O Cebreiro, ie from the border of Galicia. I guess this has always been a special kind of frontier and an "obvious" distance, at least as "obvious" as a proposal of 300 km that was made later. I have a report from a 17th century pilgrim who travels from Austria by a changing mixture of boat, coach, horseback and on foot, but when he reaches Galicia he states that from now on he will walk on foot all the way to Santiago. I, too, remember thinking: "Finally, at least I've now reached Galicia."

 

[alhartman]

@Kathar1na: Yes, there is a huge separation between we long-distance walkers and those that chose (or are only able) to walk only the last 100km as designated by the junta (about half the compostela).
And I for one have learned (after about the 2nd camino) to enjoy and deeply respect those short distance pilgrims--different to be sure, but definitely our fellows.

 

[alhartman]

And after reading Rebekah's 2016 post, I finally realize that the big kahuna among the various stakeholders is the Junta, not the church. (Quote below but bold are mine)

1993 Xacobeo. "The "All the Way" and 100 km idea, despite Galicia’s good-faith construction of a public network of free shelters, immediately created tensions with the plan developed by Valiña and the worldwide Jacobean associations. The minimum distance, which fit perfectly into the plans of the Xunta de Galicia to “begin and end the Camino in Galicia,” ended up creating a distorted image of what and where the Camino de Santiago is, a distortion that appears now to be unstoppable, and threatens to undermine and trivialize the traditional sense of the Compostela pilgrimage. For many, the pilgrimage is understood only as a four- or five-day stroll through Galicia – a reductionist view antagonistic to the historical sense of the great European pilgrimage tradition. "

 

[Bradypus]

1993 Xacobeo. "The "All the Way" and 100 km idea, despite Galicia’s good-faith construction of a public network of free shelters, immediately created tensions with the plan developed by Valiña and the worldwide Jacobean associations.

The effect of the Xunta's decision to use the 1993 Holy Year as a major promotional exercise was profound. Prior to that there were very few albergues in the current style. Instead there were much smaller and more basic refugios mostly provided by churches, Amigos groups, confraternities and town councils. Very little official involvement in the promotion of the caminos at any higher level of government than the local ayuntamiento. Very much a small-scale, local and ad-hoc volunteer-led infrastructure. The first systematic network of albergues - including the Monte do Gozo gulag - stems from that very deliberate decision to coopt the Camino as a promotional tool. And it was an astonishing success: in 1992 9,764 Compostelas were issued but for the 1993 Holy Year that figure multiplied more than 10x to 99,436. I doubt that the 2021 Holy Year will see a spike on that scale!

 

[Krissten]

"You can have your Camino... “good, fast or cheap...pick two....” Walking only from Sarria is, in general evidence of choosing the fast and cheap selections."


"fast, cheap, effort," These words are relative. For non Europeans (and for Europeans who are traveling on a budget and taking trains and buses), it is a days worth of travel just to get to a starting point on the Camino- and to return home. Airfare is over $1000 if you are coming from North America and I assume those from other continents are paying similar prices. Cost on the Camino definitely increases once you pass Sarria. Many people save for years and need to do a lot of planning at work to be able to do even this portion of the Camino. That 100 km may require A LOT of effort for someone who is new to distance walking, has back/knee issues or is still building up their fitness, and/or has time constraints and has to really push their body more than they should.

I don't think it is fair to say the Sarria portion is fast and cheap. Is it fastER and cheapER than an earlier starting point? Of course. But to say it doesn't require a lot of effort, or may have less significance for the pilgrim is not accurate.

 

[ess1113]

Anytime I am inclined to criticize pilgrims for their shorter distances and the same Compostela I am reminded of Matthew 20:1-16 and I am reminded that I am not walking for anyone but myself and that I am being paid the wage I agreed upon despite differences in distance.
Buen Camino y Salud

 

[Mudcrone]

A friend of mine is walking part of the Camino starting this Sunday.

Now, it’s an organised trip, for a cancer charity, they’re having their luggage transported and all accommodation booked.

It is a BIG adventure.

This lady has raised a large family, never been away on her own like this and has been training all this year walking with our Ramblers group. She’s also a practising Catholic.

The reason I am writing this you may ask?
I am sooooo worried she will be made aware of negative comments, such as I have just today - again - read on FB forums. ‘Sarria pilgrims’? Pfuitt!
Unfair, hurtful etc... It really upset me. No-one deserves this.

I am one of the privileged ones who can take more than a week off to walk more than 100 km. I am also one of the privileged ones who can afford longer pilgrimages.

Really, this was just to remind us all (including me) that we all have different circumstances.
I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry But thank you for listening

When I judge others it hurts me more than them. I know this, because I have judged. It is unkind. It doesn't make me better than someone. It reduces me.

 

[Kathor1]

The first systematic network of albergues - including the Monte do Gozo gulag - stems from that very deliberate decision to coopt the Camino as a promotional tool. And it was an astonishing success: in 1992 9,764 Compostelas were issued but for the 1993 Holy Year that figure multiplied more than 10x to 99,436.

Yet none of these 99,000+ are here to tell us whether or not they walked the 4,4 km from Monte do Gozo and got a Compostela that year or not ☺. I love reading in old camino newsletters but it’s really difficult to find something about an official 100 km rule in those issued before the year 2000. It seems, however, that this distance was always popular, rule or no rule: 1 day to travel there, 1 day to travel home, 1 day in Santiago and 4 days walking - makes 1 week.

 

[Kathor1]

And after reading Rebekah's 2016 post, I finally realize that the big kahuna among the various stakeholders is the Junta, not the church.

Depending on which one of the Spanish "Camino figures" you read who were there at the time, it's either the Xunta, the Cathedral, or Commerce (which is always a greedy Commerce), or all three of them who are to blame. In an old forum thread from 2013, another well known figure is quoted and he puts the blame squarely on the Canon (priest) responsible for the Peregrination Office at the time and on the aims the Cathedral is supposedly pursuing with their statistics.

I have much sympathy for those who know long-distance pilgrimage to Santiago from earlier years and who deplore the current state of affairs. I'm just not sure how to redress it. Claiming that the pilgrimage to Saint James in Santiago was never a regional or local pilgrimage, as A. Pombo does, and that this is a reason for a change to a 300 km rule seems just pointless to me. People didn't walk for charity in those days either, and they do now (see the start of this thread), and the Camino de Santiago wasn't part of the curriculum of primary and secondary schools in say Castilla y Leon but it is now and school classes walk it now.

 

[Bradypus]

I have much sympathy for those who know long-distance pilgrimage to Santiago from earlier years and who deplore the current state of affairs. I'm just not sure how to redress it.

Nor me. I doubt that there is any effective "redress" for the current situation in any case. And trying to pin the blame for the way the Camino has evolved on a single institution or especially a named individual seems very simplistic. Many factors have been involved - not the least of which is that most of those who walk now want the sort of experience which they find: affordable, straightforward, physically undemanding and without any overt specific religious or spiritual prerequisites. So they continue overwhelmingly to choose the busiest and most "commercial" of routes - often multiple times. Those aspects of the modern Camino which draw most scorn from some old-timers and more recent purists such as luggage transport services and commercial tour groups did not appear spontaneously. They have been a response to changing demands and expectations and interpretations of "pilgrimage". Trying to stuff toothpaste like that back in the tube seems a task doomed to failure.

Those who want an experience closer to the Camino of the 1980s or 1990s will find it more profitable to look at other routes less-travelled rather than simply mourn the loss of the Camino Frances of the past. But as one who probably counts as an "old-timer" I would make a plea for some sympathy or at least a modicum of understanding. I have occasionally been told that I should welcome the ever-increasing numbers on the Caminos without complaint: the more people who experience them the merrier. Most often from people whose only Camino experience has been in the past two or three years when numbers have been around 300,000 per year. I would ask them to try this little exercise in imagination. Think back to your first Camino. Try to remember scenes with fellow pilgrims in a bar or albergue or just walking together along a road. Now imagine that each and every one of those you met on that first journey had been accompanied by 65 friends. Would you honestly welcome change on that scale wholeheartedly and with no regrets?

 

[Kathor1]

Oooh, some of you might like this , I just found it again. No need to walk from Sarria to get a Compostela from the Cathedral. They offered their very own webCompostela at one point in time and you can still get it, provided your browser allows it. Chrome on MacOS worked.

Go to https://archive.org/web/​

Enter http://www.catedraldesantiago.es/ and browse history​

Click on 2006​

Scroll to the month of November in the calendar​

Click on 15​

Click on the Spanish flag​

When the drawing is finished, click on Entrar​

Click on e-compostela​

Enter your name and click on Latín​

Click on Imprimir but don't forget to put some parchment into your printer tray first.​

​

Notice the computer mouse next to the shell, the staff and the pumpkin gourd.

 

[Bradypus]

Thank you @Kathar1na ! Marvellous! Amazing web design too. Very classy. I have made my own copy before someone at the cathedral spots this and has the site wiped from history I wonder how many strange rabbit holes in the interwebs you had to dive into before you found that little gem

 

[Paul_Garland]

Oooh, some of you might like this , I just found it again. No need to walk from Sarria to get a Compostela from the Cathedral. They offered their very own webCompostela at one point in time and you can still get it, provided your browser allows it. Chrome on MacOS worked.

Go to https://archive.org/web/​

Enter http://www.catedraldesantiago.es/ and browse history​

Click on 2006​

Scroll to the month of November in the calendar​

Click on 15​

Click on the Spanish flag​

When the drawing is finished, click on Entrar​

Click on e-compostela​

Enter your name and click on Latín​

Click on Imprimir but don't forget to put some parchment into your printer tray first.​

​

Notice the computer mouse next to the shell, the staff and the pumpkin gourd.

View attachment 65553

Love the instruction to ensure there's parchment in the printer

 

[Former member 91017]

I think this gets to a lot of the issue, Bradypus -- it's not only a personal concern, right? It's the sustainability of this pursuit that has survived nearly 1000 years, and is mutating into what could easily be a collapse within the next 10 years with these kinds of numbers.

I was fortunate on my first walk in 2014 to get away from other walkers entry for about 1/3 of the time, simply because I went "off stage" and had things I wanted to see that were not of interest to many others (the university in Pamplona, the evolution museum in Burgos... for example).

My second walk in 2018 was, by contrast, extremely crowded from Sarria onward, ad we were not prepared for that (I was with my husband on the 2nd go) as I'd not experienced it on the previous go (but the trips were in different seasons and the 2nd was still at the height of things in early September when we hit Sarria).

If ever I pursue a CF again, I will duck out at Ponferrada and use the Invierno.

I am not concerned with *how* people do their walks in particular, but the easy/fast/predictable impacts everything: uptick in litter, reduction in good food supplanted by those "menus" of microwaved pizza and "paella", a terrible bed-race as people start pre-booking not one but two accommodations for each day, and general entitlements that have not characterized the first 700 km....

And I haven't even gone near the different sorts of empty platitudes that saturated the air from Sarria (mostly new-age/yoga/wellness kinds of stuff that seemed to forget that the camino's purpose is not to provide fodder for an instagram vision of success).

And so this next one I am doing is "off-season" from Coimbra on the CP and I hope to be guided by the caminho rather than to be trying to dampen the sound of demands forced upon it by a clamourous insistence from the fast/easy/predictable dynamic.

Those who want an experience closer to the Camino of the 1980s or 1990s will find it more profitable to look at other routes less-travelled rather than simply mourn the loss of the Camino Frances of the past. But as one who probably counts as an "old-timer" I would make a plea for some sympathy or at least a modicum of understanding. I have occasionally been told that I should welcome the ever-increasing numbers on the Caminos without complaint: the more people who experience them the merrier. Most often from people whose only Camino experience has been in the past two or three years when numbers have been around 300,000 per year. I would ask them to try this little exercise in imagination. Think back to your first Camino. Try to remember scenes with fellow pilgrims in a bar or albergue or just walking together along a road. Now imagine that each and every one of those you met on that first journey had been accompanied by 65 friends. Would you honestly welcome change on that scale wholeheartedly and with no regrets?

 

[David Tallan]

You can have your Camino... “good, fast or cheap...pick two....” Walking only from Sarria is, in general evidence of choosing the fast and cheap selections.

Rarely, IMHO, is it good. Good, per se, usually requires more time and distance, again in my experience and opinion.

When I do this, it takes me the better part of seven days walking just to get in the Camino groove. Doing the very short stretch from Sarria or Tui only, may qualify a pilgrim for a Compostela, but I suggest it will not provide enough “contact time” to get the really complete experience.

I am NOT passing judgment on those who choose to do only this much. Everyone is entitled to their Camino. I suppose my observation is that you can only expect a spiritual or experiential result, commensurate with effort and time invested.

hope this helps.

On the other hand, I have met people who found the 100 km pilgrimage to be life changing and people who seemed much less changed by the 800 km trek. It is hard to say what is needed for the "complete experience". I don't think it is necessarily commensurate with effort and time. Elements of readiness and openness also enter into the equation.

For people who walk from Le Puy, or Switzerland, or Poland, the short walk from SJPP may not provide enough time to get the complete experience. And others might say that if you are not walking home with all of that return walking time to process your pilgrimage, you are hardly getting the complete experience.

Just as there is no single "starting point" for the Camino, I believe there is no single "correct amount" to reap Camino benefits. It will depend on each person and their situation and experience.

As always, YMMV.

 

[Former member 91017]

Completely agree that there is no "starting point" for the camino. It is also a historical truth that those who lived-in Santiago were considered already to live in the lee of the blessings of the saint -- and had no need to go on pilgrimage (and nobody would accuse them of anything, rather only marvel at their good fortune).

I also agree about the problem of not walking back home. Very, very few are able to do that now, and it was obviously a requirement for may hundreds of years.

I found that in the months following my first camino I had to do a tremendous amount of walking to process a load of things.

Now walking is just how I live my life... walk to work, walk to do most things... and it feels better that way. Socially, physically, environmentally...

But I do wish I could walk on water to make my way home across the pond.

 

[Barbara]

Try Lourdes. You can go in a bus. Just don't try telling anyone there that they aren't a pilgrim or they might try to drown you in holy water. It's not been going on as long as the Santiago pilgrimage but I bet more people have heard about it. Can we please stop this nonsense about how far you did or didn't walk? The rich people went on a horse or in a coach and stayed in nice places. The poor people walked. Nobody flew in either direction. Everyone started at home. I don't think anyone came from the USA or Australia until rather recently. Boats were involved in some cases. You know what? I went on a pilgrimage to St. Martin of Tours. It's an older pilgrimage than Santiago's. Not many people know about it. I didn't have to do a minimum distance and I didn't get another piece of paper to put on the wall. I did get the train home.
Pilgrim is as pilgrim does. Enjoy the walk/taxi/bus ride/ cycling/flight. Pray at the tomb of Saint James. You are now a pilgrim.

 

[VNwalking]

The first systematic network of albergues - including the Monte do Gozo gulag - stems from that very deliberate decision to coopt the Camino as a promotional tool.

Which they intend to do next year for the Camino Invierno (the promotion, I mean) Uh-oh.

Oooh, some of you might like this ,

OMG, @Kathar1na - you may have found an easter egg!

 

[gerip]

where I have actually experienced the "bucket list" tick pilgrims, running along with nothing but a water bottle and a walking stick.

Sometimes not even the water bottle! But plenty of makeup, though.

 

[gerip]

Oooh, some of you might like this , I just found it again. No need to walk from Sarria to get a Compostela from the Cathedral. They offered their very own webCompostela at one point in time and you can still get it, provided your browser allows it. Chrome on MacOS worked.

Go to https://archive.org/web/​

Enter http://www.catedraldesantiago.es/ and browse history​

Click on 2006​

Scroll to the month of November in the calendar​

Click on 15​

Click on the Spanish flag​

When the drawing is finished, click on Entrar​

Click on e-compostela​

Enter your name and click on Latín​

Click on Imprimir but don't forget to put some parchment into your printer tray first.​

​

Notice the computer mouse next to the shell, the staff and the pumpkin gourd.

View attachment 65553

Now I’ll just try to superimpose this on the one I got on Saturday with Friday’s date, I’ll be very happy indeed!

 

[gerip]

Clearly someone who was trying to win some sort of satisfaction by cheating his way through the Camino.

Maybe he had an experience of humility somewhere down the road?

He then explained how his daughter had spent her High school years suffering depression and anxiety and getting to Santiago via feet, bus or taxi was something he’d never expected of her.

Sometimes disabilities are invisible. Another reason why we can’t judge.

 

[Wren]

You can have your Camino... “good, fast or cheap...pick two....” Walking only from Sarria is, in general evidence of choosing the fast and cheap selections.

Rarely, IMHO, is it good. Good, per se, usually requires more time and distance, again in my experience and opinion.

When I do this, it takes me the better part of seven days walking just to get in the Camino groove. Doing the very short stretch from Sarria or Tui only, may qualify a pilgrim for a Compostela, but I suggest it will not provide enough “contact time” to get the really complete experience.

I am NOT passing judgment on those who choose to do only this much. Everyone is entitled to their Camino. I suppose my observation is that you can only expect a spiritual or experiential result, commensurate with effort and time invested.

hope this helps.

HMMM I'm pleased you stated 'IMHO' as that makes things clearer, but, I'd just like to say this. Due to time constraints, I could only spend a short time to walk my Camino, and chose to do so from Sarria. I had an amazing time! I have made lifelong friends, I certainly did feel somethng spiritual, which meant a huge amount to me, and I won't go into further details on that. Suffice to say I came home ever so slightly different to the person who left! I did'nt find it to be fast either, it was just right, with time for stops and coffee, chats, taking off of shoes and socks etc, and then continuing. Plenty of time at the end of a walking day to get to know others where we stayed, and to explore the towns we stayed in, Contact time? Well, my contact with others along the route was awesome, met some wonderful interesting and joyful people, made friends with plenty, had to ignore a few, that is true. The forests were just amazing and the connection with nature was something that really really made my Camino for me, I wouldn't have missed it for the world. The whole experience was absolutely wonderful, and I am walking again September 2020, and yes, again a shorter timescale, some of us do not have the luxury of being able to take several weeks. I do feel I had a complete experience, but maybe you define complete in a different way after all, we ARE all different, and we all walk our own Camino don't we?

 

[t2andreo]

I also said that I was not criticizing pilgrims who, for whatever reason, are not able to invest more time, etc. The only folks I reserve my ire for are those who COULD walk longer, but opt to put in the absolute minimum effort to qualify for a Compostela.

But again, every pilgrim does their own Camino. I just have my opinion, based on six longer Caminos, and seven volunteer stints at the Pilgrim Office over six years, and that is my perspective.

We do not have to agree on everything all the time. Debate, and even disagreement, is healthy in most any discourse.

Hope this helps.

 

[Wren]

OH I could see you weren't criticizing, I just wanted to say, that it certainly can be a great connection, I think a lot also depends on mindset. You get out of a Camino what you need, and that may not be what you want or indeed, expect

 

[gerip]

And here are some of those Sarria pilgrims!

Met Tony yesterday. Amazing.

 

[David Tallan]

But I do wish I could walk on water to make my way home across the pond.

The trick is waiting for it to get very cold. It works quite well for ponds around here. Not as well for rivers.

 

[David Tallan]

Oooh, some of you might like this , I just found it again. No need to walk from Sarria to get a Compostela from the Cathedral. They offered their very own webCompostela at one point in time and you can still get it, provided your browser allows it. Chrome on MacOS worked.

Go to https://archive.org/web/​

Enter http://www.catedraldesantiago.es/ and browse history​

Click on 2006​

Scroll to the month of November in the calendar​

Click on 15​

Click on the Spanish flag​

When the drawing is finished, click on Entrar​

Click on e-compostela​

Enter your name and click on Latín​

Click on Imprimir but don't forget to put some parchment into your printer tray first.​

​

Notice the computer mouse next to the shell, the staff and the pumpkin gourd.

View attachment 65553

I think you still need to walk (or bicycle, or ride a horse, etc.) to Santiago de Compostela to get a Compostela. Pretty as it is, an e-Compostela isn't quite the same thing, as the wording indicates. You get a Compostela for visiting the Cathedral (more or less) and an e-Compostela for visiting the Cathedral's web page. That makes complete sense. All you need is an Internet connection and a computer/browser that can deal with Flash. At least you no longer need to listen to the modem squeal.

 

[Bradypus]

All you need is an Internet connection and a computer/browser that can deal with Flash. At least you no longer need to listen to the modem squeal.

I had to turn on Flash specially in Google Chrome to view the site. And Chrome then warned me that they will be ending support for Flash in 2020 Almost as obsolete as I am..... And I can still remember installing and setting up a 2.4k modem in my first PC. A competent Morse operator could probably have sent and received data faster

 

[Former member 91017]

The trick is waiting for it to get very cold. It works quite well for ponds around here. Not as well for rivers.

OH ... "the pond" = the Atlantic ocean.

 

[eddwillwee]

Hi domigee,
an assurance at the end of the Camino: I was a volunteer at the PO over summer; I never once treated a 'Sarria 115km pilgrim' any different from someone who walked 1515km from Le Puy or 997km from SJPdP.

Each and every pilgrim who came to my desk received the same welcome and courtesy. In fact, I rather liked the pilgrims who started from Sarria as their credencials were so much easier to check; I think I can recognise every 'major' sello between Sarria and Santiago as well as the order and date apart they should appear on the credencial. It made the whole process a lot faster on my part and I then had a minute or so to chat with them as they would almost always be on their first pilgrimage. They would be the most excited to receive their Compostela.

Other people may beg to differ, but for me, the Camino is a Christian pilgrimage, the Compostela is a religious document issued by the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela, a Catholic body. I, as a volunteer in the PO, on behalf of the Cathedral, offered a Christian welcome. I based my ethos on the parable of the workers in the vineyard (Matt 20:1-16).

 

[JabbaPapa]

From my point of view, no matter where people start, Sarria, Ponferrada, Burgos, SJPP, Le Puy, or anywhere -- they are Pilgrims.

To look down on those who walk "only" 100K is to look down on one's own first 100K, most likely no "better" than those last.

Christ's own Way from Bethlehem to Calvary in Jerusalem is about 100K ...

 

[JabbaPapa]

Me too. On my last Camino Frances I passed through Sarria in a rage at what the place has now become. But I would not put the blame for that on the individual pilgrims I met that day.

I'll never understand this -- I love the place !!!

 

[JabbaPapa]

In Puente la Reina we were waiting to check into an Albergue. When a well dressed- sweat free man in his 60’s pushed to the front of the queue and pulled 2 Compostela a from his pocket. Our host simply stamped and signed them. The man shook his hand and walked away. While standing in line I quizzed him as to whether he was a genuine pilgrim? He just shrugged his shoulders, smiled and quickly left. Clearly someone who was trying to win some sort of satisfaction by cheating his way through the Camino.

OK

I am one of those pesky "True Pilgrims", so that maybe this might be the sort of perspective you're fishing for ...

First -- religiously speaking, doing the Camino by whatever means is "genuinely" a Pilgrimage, including all of those doing it by motor transport.

The Way of Saint James is OTOH almost unique, with the Way of Jerusalem, as a Pilgrim Way, where to be a foot pilgrim provides more than to be any other manner of pilgrim ; but that is because the non-religious foot Pilgrims on those Ways are considered to be as genuine as the honestly religious Pilgrims that define basically every other pilgrimage.

The point is that the Camino has both possibilities.

But to put the foot part of it before the rest is, ironically I realise, to put the cart before the horse.

The "false pilgrims" are those using pilgrim resources under false pretences -- those driving along the Camino and collecting stamps along their own non-foot pilgrimages in an honest manner are pilgrims too, just not foot pilgrims.

The "fake pilgrims" are those like the thieves and the con artists or worse pretending to be pilgrims in order to prey on others.

 

[David Tallan]

OH ... "the pond" = the Atlantic ocean.

In that case, even if you could walk on water it would be a very very long walk. Sure, there are no mountain ranges to cross, but there aren't bars and albergues every few km either.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

In drilling down through my thoughts about the Sarria to SdC section of the Frances, and what was objectionable to me, it had nothing to do with feelings about who is or is not a pilgrim.

I have no issue or bias about those who start at Sarria, or if carrying or not carrying whatever they wish, having baggage transport or no, whether walking alone or in a gaggle of others. It simply is of no real concern, nor do I give it any real thought.

I just do not like walking among chattering crowds of people during a Camino. I also do not like walking a Camino surrounded by cars or bicycles. Fortunately, all of those instances are a small, small percentage of the entire Camino Frances. Even from Sarria onward.

 

[gerip]

I just do not like walking among chattering crowds of people during a Camino.

And for that I hold the tour companies responsible. The truth of the matter is for them to organise a junket for more than 100 k would be a logistical nightmare, so most follow the path of least resistance and focus on starting from Sarria, with the promise of a Compostela at the end.

 

[domigee]

Just to tell you the end of the story: my friend made it to Santiago today!
And from the smiley faces on the pics, I don’t think they came across too many negative comments! I worried about nothing

 

[nycwalking]

The trick is waiting for it to get very cold. It works quite well for ponds around here. Not as well for rivers.

If only!

In that case, even if you could walk on water it would be a very very long walk. Sure, there are no mountain ranges to cross, but there aren't bars and albergues every few km either.

Ah!

But, wouldn’t that be glorious.

 

[Bilbo]

if im been honest i was very judgemental on my recent Camino ,i wasnt the only one who saw 2 groups i,e ,pilgrims and tourists . there was a large group of guys half my age in the last 100km who stood early morning in the alburgue doing some sort of pep talk/chant ,they then threw all there bags in the corner to be collected ,lazy and a bigger carbon footprint ,ideal
suddenly the sound of hairdryers became more prevalent ,why not ,just send it all on ,was their veiw.(big bags with camino stickers on)
totaly understand how old or disabled or very unfit may do this but my personal feeling is that the camino is been devalued ,but who am i to say where the camino starts anyway
as for people on time constraints i think they are missing out on so much from the earlier sections ,pyranees and the messata roman road way where we saw literally no one for instance,