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HI,hello fellow peregino/as,
I did Leon to Santiago in 2012 and I will be doing Pamplona to Burgos next month. B/f my last trip, I sprayed my clothes and equipment with _either_ pyrethrin OR permethrin [SP?] to avoid bedbugs, and it worked great. I slept in a lightly-infested albergue one night, and I was unaffected. My problem is that I can't recall which of these two substances I used! Can someone give me some guidance (and give me the correct spelling)?
Buen Camino a todo/as!
Cris Nelson
Boston MA
Not available in Canada, Anemone, what did you use instead of the permethrine?It's "perm" as in permafreezing the little buggers! That's how I remember which is which.
Available at Canadian tire. Also amazon.ca and your local pest control company will carry it. They are not supposed to sell it to you to spray on clothes but still will. But it comes in largish quantities, much more than you'll need to spray your sleeping bag, backpack amd contour sheet.Not available in Canada, Anemone, what did you use instead of the permethrine?
I live in Calgary and I used a "crawling insect destroyer" called Blaze Pro, containing both Pyrethrin and Permethrin, available at my local Home Depot. I took my sleeping bag and my backpack outside and thoroughly sprayed the outsides of both then hung them to dry before bringing them in. By the next day, the smell was gone. I used the sleeping bag on the camino frances last fall, but I was very careful and as far as I know I never came across a bed bug, nor did I bring any home with me.Not available in Canada, Anemone, what did you use instead of the permethrine?
Not available in Canada, Anemone, what did you use instead of the permethrine?
Chris, I used Permetherin last year all around me people got bed bugs and I was free. I sprayed my backpack sleeping bag and also my boots and shoes I would use at night.hello fellow peregino/as,
I did Leon to Santiago in 2012 and I will be doing Pamplona to Burgos next month. B/f my last trip, I sprayed my clothes and equipment with _either_ pyrethrin OR permethrin [SP?] to avoid bedbugs, and it worked great. I slept in a lightly-infested albergue one night, and I was unaffected. My problem is that I can't recall which of these two substances I used! Can someone give me some guidance (and give me the correct spelling)?
Buen Camino a todo/as!
Cris Nelson
Boston MA
I am not sure about this explanation. The issue that I have heard about is that the IDA kit is not used properly, the application is uneven or inconsistent, and does not provide the anticipated level of protection. My understanding is that permethrin is not permanently bonded in any case, and will be removed from the clothing by repeated laundry cycles.As an aside, there is one way to screw up the permethrin Individual Dynamic Absorption (IDA). One of the concepts is that the permethrin will bind to the back of the clothing fabric. Although it binds well to many fabrics, it will not bind to all clothing types correctly, which can cause problems.
As such there would be a risk if someone applied it incorrectly and/or the clothing item did not manage the chemical well. In these cases, the petroleum solvent would evaporate and the permethrin may not be totally fixed to the clothing item because of the fabric absorption qualities of the item. As such, you then put on your clothing and absorb the un-bonded permethrin. For this reason, it’s advised not to be used on next to skin items.
A quick follow-up to explain further, as many use this product.
There is no risk of absorption into the skin once the product initially dries and binds to the clothing fabric.
If used/applied correctly, permethrin has been shown to remain fixed to the clothing for approximately 50 washings and then becomes ineffective due to natural break down of the chemicals.
The risk exists in the initial application. Once the petroleum distillates evaporate (and the garment is dry) then the permethrin is fixed to the clothes. That chemical smell you smell when you treat your clothing is the petroleum solvents (like the stuff used in dry cleaning). The risk is from absorption through your skin / eyes / inhalation, or ingestion.
As an aside, there is one way to screw up the permethrin Individual Dynamic Absorption (IDA). One of the concepts is that the permethrin will bind to the back of the clothing fabric. Although it binds well to many fabrics, it will not bind to all clothing types correctly, which can cause problems.
As such there would be a risk if someone applied it incorrectly and/or the clothing item did not manage the chemical well. In these cases, the petroleum solvent would evaporate and the permethrin may not be totally fixed to the clothing item because of the fabric absorption qualities of the item. As such, you then put on your clothing and absorb the un-bonded permethrin. For this reason, it’s advised not to be used on next to skin items.
HTHs
@Saint Mike II , only a couple of days in the freezer? I thought I had heard it was 3 weeks.I gave my sleeping bag, the liner and my backpacks/panniers a really good spraying (with the Permethrin); then left them to air dry for about 24-48 hours. Also I was extra careful when staying at any "donativo" albergues. The results - no bed bugs.
Note of caution - when you get home either leave your sleeping bag and liner in a large black garbage bag in the hot sun for a few days or into the freezer again for a day or two this ensure the little blighters are not permitted to go in living or breeding. Good luck.
Is there any evidence that this recipe works as either a repellent or an insecticide? Is it possible that there were no bed-bugs to repel or kill, and your camino would have been bed-bug free without this?Here is an earth friendly option to permethrin (chemicals you plan to sleep with):
A homemade Bedbug Spray Recipe using Essential Oils
Ingredients:
· Choose from Citronella, Clove, Lemongrass, Rosemary, Tea Tree, Cajeput, Eucalyptus, Cinnamon, Cedar, Catnip, Lavender and Mint
· Natural Witch Hazel
· Distilled or boiled Water
Instructions:
· Fill an 8-ounce spray bottle half full with distilled or boiled water
· Add witch hazel to fill almost to the top
· Add 30-50 drops of essential oils to desired scent. The more oils you use, the stronger the spray will be.
A common mix is Rosemary, Clove, Cajeput, Lavender, Cinnamon and Eucalyptus. Play around with the oils to find a scent you like. Then treat your sleeping bag and backpack with the spray.
Buen (bug-free) Camino
Anything is possible Doug. It's possible I just set the right intention and God was on my side. However, I've used these natural and commercially available concoctions for years now, in many a bug invested local, always with good results. I judge by results--and don't sleep with chemicals. Now I make my own blend (my wife and daughter are heavily into essential oils, which is all the natural mixes were that I was purchasing in the past). Same results, though with less trials thus far.Is there any evidence that this recipe works as either a repellent or an insecticide? Is it possible that there were no bed-bugs to repel or kill, and your camino would have been bed-bug free without this?
Follow the money.I realise that many studies say otherwise, but to me scientific studies tend to go in the direction of who’s paying for them and their interest; one only needs to look at the pharmaceutical companies in this regard.
Well, I would take the view that you do sleep with chemicals, and you are prepared to sleep with chemicals that have not undergone the same level of testing for their effectiveness and safety as other products that have proven to be more effective, such as pyrethrum and permethrin.I ... don't sleep with chemicals.
I suppose it's a matter of perspective. But, I don't think oil squeezed out of a lavender plant to be a chemical. That's like saying extra virgin olive oil is a chemical.Well, I would take the view that you do sleep with chemicals, and you are prepared to sleep with chemicals that have not undergone the same level of testing for their effectiveness and safety as other products that have proven to be more effective, such as pyrethrim and permethrin.
Which, of course, it is!I suppose it's a matter of perspective. But, I don't think oil squeezed out of a lavender plant to be a chemical. That's like saying extra virgin olive oil is a chemical.
Cheers.Which, of course, it is!
I guess it depends on the concentration, as both permethrin and pyrethrin are used for head lice treatment.As a precaution, permethrin should not be applied on Next to skin items. We use it in the military prior to deployments, but only on outerwear and not T-shirts, underwear or Hats.
I guess it depends on the concentration, as both permethrin and pyrethrin are used for head lice treatment.
Many of the things @DavidsRetired points to are perfectly correct, but I think it is important to understand that they are true in the context of occupational use of permethrin as a pesticide. This is a quite different circumstance to using treated equipment or clothing. In another thread, I noted that to achieve the LD50 of the Sawyers spray you needed to consume five kg of it. I said then:So with that, my end of this discussion is closed.
It seems to me that regular exposure to permethrin and other insecticides in an agricultural setting is likely to be quite different to the sorts of exposure to consumer permethrin based products on the camino. I am not suggesting that one should ignore taking precautions when applying this product. Follow the directions, take care disposing of any waste and clean up properly. But the evidence that I have seen does not suggest to me that one should stop using it as part of other arrangements to prevent bed-bug bites.
Treating outerwear is generally not a problem, but I would ask why if your concern is bedbugs. Unless you plan to wear your outerwear while sleeping, treatment won't protect you from them.
Saint Mike, I too live in Australia and can't find a local product with Permethrin as the active ingredient. As bed bugs is a concern for this firt-timer on the Camino Frances, where did you obtain your product? Thanks for the advice. Garry.I gave my sleeping bag, the liner and my backpacks/panniers a really good spraying (with the Permethrin); then left them to air dry for about 24-48 hours. Also I was extra careful when staying at any "donativo" albergues. The results - no bed bugs.
Note of caution - when you get home either leave your sleeping bag and liner in a large black garbage bag in the hot sun for a few days or into the freezer again for a day or two this ensure the little blighters are not permitted to go in living or breeding. Good luck.
Thanks Kanga. Just love this Forum. Garry.The common one in Australia is Equip Debugger. Its available from hiking stores - here are a few stores that stock it:
http://www.paddypallin.com.au/equip-debugger-anti-insect-permethrin.html?q=permethrin
https://www.trekandtravel.com.au/product_detail.asp?id=1525&cat=1&subcat=26
http://www.camphikeclimb.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=13_78&products_id=564
I will have to ask Jenny where she bought it! Will get back to you. Cheers!Saint Mike, I too live in Australia and can't find a local product with Permethrin as the active ingredient. As bed bugs is a concern for this firt-timer on the Camino Frances, where did you obtain your product? Thanks for the advice. Garry.
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