• Remove ads on the forum by becoming a donating member. More here.
This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Pilgrim shame

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 36903
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I understand there are some with clear limitations, just as I could not physically walk 35 km a day unless I planned on arriving at 8pm,p night after night, hence why I did not walk the Norte when I first wanted to, back in 2007. It was simply not possible, at least in my mind, so I walked the CF.

But it feels as if now that I know there ways to shorten days, walk less, the temptation is there when it wasn't there when I had not learned about all these ways. So who am I cheating now by trying to wiggle out from what I can do?
 
More 2024 Camino Guides available
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.

The only shame is the use of such a judgemental term.
 
0
Jacobus said:
The only shame is the use of such a judgemental term.
Click to expand...
The original post used the term to describe the embarrassment of the pilgrim himself, not making fun of the pilgrim or shaming the pilgrim, or judging the pilgrim. The thread seemed to evolve from there. A true pilgrim would certainly feel disappointment, and maybe unnecessary shame if not able to complete the walk by foot. I personally took the original post as a light-hearted post with a bit of humor in coining the the term for that feeling that one might have himself. The question was proposed to ask if anyone here had felt "pilgrim shame". Sadly, the experiences shared seem to be of those who actually experienced "pilgrim shame" from others in a judgmental way... which is not humorous at all. But it is good know what to expect; some people are just heartless.
 
Altus BALI Sleeping bag liner
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
Jacobus said:
The only shame is the use of such a judgemental term.
Click to expand...

Jacobus, this is why in the text of my OP the phrase was placed within inverted commas. My subsequent posts have made perfectly clear that it was not about judging others, rather how unforgiving of themselves pilgrims can be when circumstances prevent them from walking in the way they had hoped to be able to do. One of the aims of many of the contributions to this and many other threads is surely to feel free to talk about how sometime we feel that we haven't quite measured up to what we expected of ourselves and our bodies, and then to learn that it was the same for others and that we should stop feeling bad about it because, as two earlier posts made clear, it is all about what is in our hearts. We can make a good start by feeling compassion for ourselves in difficult situations. Being non-judgemental about others then surely follows from this.
 
Thank you for your explanation. I didn't mean to suggest you or your fellow posters were judging others. This was not your intent. I simply think the term used is harsh and judgemental. Other posters have softened the meaning as have you and SusieQ2 when you clarified your meaning in later posts.
 

Many of pilgrims (I`m one of those) think that this "little paper sheet" means nothing. One old pilgrim can walk from the other side of the world for, said, four months, but when leaving Monte del Gozo albergue fall to the floor and break an ankle. This pilgrim have not rigth to get the Compostela.
A group of students start the Camino at Sarria, sending theirs packs by taxi, taking a whole week to arriving to Santiago, because they are partyng each nigth. When they get their Compostela, they go to a bar to continue the celebration.
Who deserve the Compostela?
But, of course, this old pilgrim, whom is coming out the Hospital, is much more a pilgrim than the students.
Dont give importance to that "little paper sheet" mates. It´s OK to get it, but its only a souvenir.
Treasure the memories, the feelings, the frienship, the laughs and tears of pain and joy. THIS is the "Real Compostela", I think. And nobody can deny your rigth to have it, if you feel you deserve it.
My apologies if the "speech" seems scholastic. or arrogant, it is not my intention, but my english is a little bit limitated; sometimes it is difficult for me to express the full sense of what I want to say.
Buen Camino.
 
Last edited:
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.

I think this "old pilgrim" you describe would have the right to get a Compostela. He/She would have all of the proper stamps. Just head over to the Pilgrim Office after getting out of the hospital.
 
DurhamParish said:
I think this "old pilgrim" you describe would have the right to get a Compostela. He/She would have all of the proper stamps. Just head over to the Pilgrim Office after getting out of the hospital.
Click to expand...
Of course, he would have the Compostela if he wanted. But, he didnt have the RIGTH. He didnt WALKED the entire 100 last kilometers. He went by ambulance the last 5km. This is the rule. The hard and sharp true is that he would be a cheater if asked for the compostela. This is the reason wy I dont give importance at that "paper sheet". Its only a pretty souvenir to me. Buen Camino.
 

I disagree. But then we can agree to disagree.

There is often discussion on who is "worthy" of a Compostela and who is not "worthy". For me I have a saying that sums it up. The Camino is not a competition; and the Compostela is not a trophy.
 
More 2024 Camino Guides available
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
Haha, one day somewhere fairly close to Santiago, we walked into a bar and saw the girl from our nightmares for the past couple of nights and just (inwardly) groaned. She was pretty high maintenance and constantly asked her boyfriend to get this or do that for her, making us squirm. And she was challenging to share space with...anyhow, we greeted her cautiously and asked how she was doing as she'd had some difficulties earlier in the day. She let us know that she and her boyfriend were catching a taxi to go further along. We were very happy to hear that as we had already booked into the albuerge and showered etc. Whew! and yes, we felt a bit guilty for being so judgey but, well, we're not perfect either!
 
I got food poisoning in Leon, and it hit me the following day. About 15km into the day it became really bad and the projectile vomiting started.
I had to take a taxi a few km later for the last 4km but didn't feel much shame. Let's just say that the old saying "through the eye of a needle at 20 paces" was particularly accurate for the next three days but, strangely enough, it tended to hit in the evening so no further taxi shame was needed.
Good weight loss program.
 
I'm walking the Via de la Plata and was shocked by how many pilgrims took a taxi from Castilblanco to the start of the natural park. If you are ill or injured, or if there is an urgent time-need, take a bus or taxi. If, though, you just can't be bothered - like my fellow taxigrinos - to walk a full stage, I would bear in mind that pain and suffering is important for physical and mental breakthroughs.
 
Get a Spanish mobil number + data while on the Camino
Get a spanish phone number with Airalo. eSim, so no physical SIM card. Easy to use app to add more funds if needed.
Pain and suffering are necessary bollocks. That’s a long stage with no resources, not even a water point. People are entitled to make their own decisions. Just as you have chosen to exercise your outrage in your first post on this forum.

One of the great learnings of Camino is acceptance. Especially acceptance of alternative approaches to Camino than your own
 
While it's an interesting topic for many, this is a really old thread. I wonder if any of the original posters are still around to comment on whether their opinions have changed since 2016?
As to pain and suffering being necessary, there is enough of that around without going out to look for it. I've never done a penitential pilgrimage, and I'm not planning on doing one in the future. Though I expect I could sew you quite a nice hair shirt if you asked nicely. You would have to wear it under the high tech clothes and not tell us about it, though.
 
Train on the 4-day Catalina Camino
Train for your next Camino on California's Santa Catalina Island March 30 to April 2
C clearly said:
True - We need to suffer through sanctimonious statements occasionally, as we seek information and community on the forum.
Click to expand...
I had heard that this forum is regularly frequented by fragile egos that find solace by bullying anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview. Sorry, but it is my opinion that you should walk the whole way unless you become injured or are ill.
 
Camino Preparation Guide
Fail to prepare? reduce your risk by buying this book full of practical info.
2nd ed.
Walkervine said:
I had heard that this forum is regularly frequented by fragile egos that find solace by bullying anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview. Sorry, but it is my opinion that you should walk the whole way unless you become injured or are ill.
Click to expand...
Why am I putting my head on the chopping block? Ah, never mind. You are walking a camino. Ignore other people, except the one who has offered to sew you a hairshirt.
Come on, never mind about what you heard, or what you see. If you are on a pilgrimage, keep custody of the eyes. And be sure to offer some helpful reports for others who might be looking for them, following in your footsteps.
 
Sure. Don't take the taxi from Castilblanco to the nature park on the third day of walking the VdlP
 
Altus BALI Sleeping bag liner
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
As far as I am concerned, I don't believe in redemption through suffering.
But I am not sure this kind of assertion is allowed on this forum.
 
Too bad you apparently didn't read the entire (8+ year old) thread before posting. You may have seen this:

Jacobus said:
The only shame is the use of such a judgemental term.
Click to expand...
 
Walkervine said:
I had heard that this forum is regularly frequented by fragile egos that find solace by bullying anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview. Sorry, but it is my opinion that you should walk the whole way unless you become injured or are ill.
Click to expand...
That is your opinion and one you are certainly entitled to. In this case, it is an opinion and a judgement. Since you are so intent on judging others, it surprises me that you would consider it "bullying" when others judge you. You have demonstrated, through your opening words here that you consider judging others a worthy activity.

I won't participate in the same. If you want to say that it is best to wall the whole way, I won't disagree with you. If you want to assert that one  should walk the whole way, health permitting. I wont say you are a bad person for doing so. I will, however, ask "on what authority" do you make this assertion about what people ought to do? If you say people are doing it "wrong", what is your source for the "right" way to do it? It is one thing to say something is right or wrong for you. Surely you can see that when it comes to applying your opinions to others, people may be nterested in what backs up those opinions.

It isn't the Church and the folks handing out Compostelas. They dont care how many rides one takes or buses or planes or trains until one is wothin that magic 100 km radius of Santiago de Compostela.

it isn't historical practice. I would bet any amount you wish that when Alfonso II undertook "the first pilgrimage", he didn't walk every step of the way. Centuries later, when Aymeric Picaud wrote the Codex Calixtinus, his descriptions make it very clear that medieval pilgrims were not expected to walk every step of the way and that horses were often used for at least part of the journey. Even now, most of our polgrimages, for all but the most diehard or local of pilgrims, start with motorized transit. I bet you didn't walk from your front door and didn't walk to where you started your Camino.

What could it be?

I guess, if you consider a Camino exclusively an athletic ability, defined only by walking a particular route from a defined starting point to a defined end point, then you could say that anyone doing a Camino differently is not really doing a Camino. That seems an incredibly limited view of what a Camino is, to me, but it is a view you are entitled to hold. I don't think you will find many here (or in any pilgrim community, frankly) who share it, though. Most of us who have walked Caminos have discovered how much more there is to them.

For myself, the walking aspect of my Camino has been more important to me in some of my Caminos, and less important in others. I would say, over time, it is becoming more important to me. Given a choice, and just considering myself, I will now always walk all the way if possible. But I know other people who have gone the other direction with their Camino experience, with walking every step of the way being less important. There are other things they are looking for from their Caminos.

I don't judge them for that. You are welcome to. But if you don't have a demonstrated basis for your judgements, people aren't going to give them much weight.
 
Camino Preparation Guide
Fail to prepare? reduce your risk by buying this book full of practical info.
2nd ed.
Yes, I have walked from my front door before. But not back as well - that would be pointless, IMO
As I wrote, it is my opinion and I thought this was a forum where everyone could express their opinion without the barrage of bully responses that I have received from the mods and "veteran" members.
It is my opinion that a walking camino should be just that - no taxis and no busses.
If it isn't your opinion then that is just that.
It's funny how so sensitive you are about what I think and feel
 
Walkervine said:
As I wrote, it is my opinion and I thought this was a forum where everyone could express their opinion without the barrage of bully responses that I have received from the mods and "veteran" members.
Click to expand...

Please keep the forum rules in mind, in this case Rule #3:

3) No arguments about who is a tourist and who is a “real" pilgrim. The forum is intended for all who are interested in the Camino. Please do not challenge the sincerity, intentions, or authenticity of another person’s Camino.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that anyone has challenged your sincerity, intentions, or authenticity.

It's best if you focus on what is right for you, and let others worry about themselves. Unless, of course their behaviour is affecting others around them negatively.
 
Join the Camino Cleanup in 2025
Give back to the Camino. Join us from Logroño to Burgos May 30 to June 8.
Walkervine said:
As I wrote, it is my opinion and I thought this was a forum where everyone could express their opinion without the barrage of bully responses that I have received from the mods and "veteran" members.
Click to expand...
Of course, anybody can express its opinion, but the others have the right to not agree.
Each of us has his own idea of what should be the Camino, but these ideas of course differ.
You think that all the way should be walked. I share this opinion, even if I consider that taking a bus in order to cross a huge town is not a true problem.
But we should consider that it is always possible to find a pilgrim who walk a more difficult way than us:
- You walk all the way ? Great ! But others start from there front door !
- You have started from your front door ? Kudos ! But others carry their own tent !
- You are carrying your tent ? Nice ! But some start without a single euro in their pocket !
- and so on and so on...
Thus the wise attitude IMHO is to be happy with our own camino and if some pilgrims behaviours seem to be not very interesting, simply do not consider them.
 
Don’t judge people. I took a taxi somewhere on the VdlP because the pilgrim I was walking with was unwell, she was in cancer remission… And I knew I had to help her.
 
And others have just stated their opinions. You are entitled to your opinion. I already said that and am not changing my mind. But I notice when you share an opinion, it's just that. "If it isn't your opinion then that is just that". But when others share their opinion about your opinion, all of a sudden the rules change. Now it is bullying. If their opinion isn't your opinion, that is just that.

This is a forum where everyone can express their opinion (consistent with the rules). But people can discuss those opinions. They can disagree. They can ask questions.

It's funny how sensitive you are about everyone who disagrees with you, or even just asks questions to understand where you are coming from.
 
Camino Ready, Backpacks, Boots etc
3rd Edition. Vital content training & pack guides avoid common mistakes, bed bugs etc
I wasn't arguing about who is a real pilgrim.
My argument was that IMO I believe that if you are going to walk a camino then you should walk it - not take a taxi or bus.
I mean, I read through all of the sympathetic posts and wanted to give my two cents.
I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!
 
Say @Walkervine, when I read your post this morning (#112 above) I did read it as rather judgemental but after reading these subsequent posts I went back and re-read it. Reading with the view that it isn't judging the post absolutely comes across that way. It does seem to lack tact though. Anyway, I changed my opinion.
 
Last edited:
NEW pocket guide just released
Before the Camino: Your Pocket Guide to Prepare Your Body and Mind for the Camino
Walkervine said:
I had heard that this forum is regularly frequented by fragile egos that find solace by bullying anyone that doesn't conform to their worldview.
Click to expand...
Well at least we can agree on something.

If you believe one should walk every step of the way if physically possible, fine, that´s your opinion and I agree with you. What I don´t agree with is disparaging others publicly with terms like ´taxigrino´ just because they do things differently.

I also disagree very strongly with the idea that pain and suffering are necessary. They may be unavoidable in some situations, but the idea that they are necessary I regard as pernicious and potentially dangerous
 
Last edited:
Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!
 
Camino Ready, Backpacks, Boots etc
3rd Edition. Vital content training & pack guides avoid common mistakes, bed bugs etc
domigee said:
Don’t judge people. I took a taxi somewhere on the VdlP because the pilgrim I was walking with was unwell, she was in cancer remission… And I knew I had to help her.
Click to expand...
But, I'm not judging people.
I wrote that pilgrims should, of course, take a bus or taxi if they are ill or injured.
If they are not, I don't think pilgrims should cherry pick where they walk and where they take public transport.
 
I don't necessarily agree that pain and suffering are necessary. But, when it is experienced, pain and suffering can lead to mental and physical breakthroughs. I must write that a lot of the posters here seem very much like the kind of people that would defend Raygun at the Olympics because "she was just trying."
 
Walkervine said:
But, I'm not judging people.
I wrote that pilgrims should, of course, take a bus or taxi if they are ill or injured.
If they are not, I don't think pilgrims should cherry pick where they walk and where they take public transport.
Click to expand...
And one more point: taxigrinos and busgrinos have affected my camino more than once so far because by taking public transport (for no other reason than they couldn't be bothered to walk the whole way) I arrived to an albergue and had to make do with a not-so-great bed because the best spots were taken by these transport-pilgrims arriving early at the albergue ahead of me. Also, it seems to me that the pilgrims with lots of camino badges sown on their rucksacks are often the ones that take public transport. Again, though, if you are ill or injured - you should take public transport. If you just would rather take transport because you want to cherry pick your camino - I have no respect for you.
 
More 2024 Camino Guides available
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
Walkervine said:
and had to make do with a not-so-great bed because the best spots were taken by these transport-pilgrims arriving early at the albergue ahead of me.
Click to expand...

Ah! Now we are getting to the point. Would you have felt any better if the best spots were taken not by ´transport-pilgrims' but by pilgrims just walking faster than you or starting earlier?
 
Walkervine said:
And one more point: taxigrinos and busgrinos have affected my camino more than once so far
Click to expand...
I´m not sure from your profile whether or not this is your first camino, but if it is you are going to have to accept the fact that skipping sections of the camino is quite common practice, e.g. the entire Meseta, the outskirts of various cities either on the way in or the way out etc because they are supposedly ugly or boring and there are frequent posts and threads on this forum about how to do it. You may not approve of it, many of your fellow members do not approve of it, but we just have to get used to it and get on with our own camino. And please avoid disparaging terms such as taxigrinos and busigrinos: they contravene rules 1 and 3.

Finally, buen camino. I walked the Via de la Plata as my first camino in 2012 (and no, I didn´t take the taxi from Castilblanco), the best is yet to come.
 

I will take the bait though most probably your are trolling.
Gosh your short post is a good example of a bunch of clichés.

Some solutions for you: walk in early spring or late autumn or winter and even popular Caminos will be empty. Or think about lesser walked Caminos like the Camino del Ebro or the Levante.

Aha , the subjective concept of the " whole way ". There is no whole way. You start somewhere and that is it. With luck you end in Santiago where you may or may not collect your Compostela and go to Confession for confessing the possible sin of Pride.
Should my neighbour from next village in Belgium who walked from home to Santiago feel more proud he walked a longer Camino than you? Or than someone with limited time and resources who only was able to walk from Sarria on?

I will not even discuss your idea about the correlation between lots of badges and taking public transport.

Edit 1 : one more thing. In my worldview, respect for others and nature is my main value. Do I feel sympathy for everyone or even empathy? No. But respect, yes!

Edit 2 : Sorry to others who replied in the same fashion. Did not read all replies till now.
 
Last edited:
Camino Jewellery
A selection of Camino Jewellery
Thanks! Yes, I'm enjoying this camino a lot.
I was trying to express that there are a lot of people these days who view the camino as a holiday.
I started out from Sevilla with a large group of pilgrims and most of them were only walking to Merida and basically on a walking holiday in Andalucia and Extremadura.
For these types of pilgrim, the experience of the camino is very different to someone who is walking to Santiago.
As a result, the atmosphere in some of the albergues lacks that camino magic because there is less of a communal sense of shared camaraderie.
I've walked many other caminos, and, yes, I have walked from my front door on a camino that stretched for over 3,000 km.
I try not to be that pilgrim who is conceited about their walking experience because I remember back when I first walked 20km for the first time and I understand that, for many people, walking these long distances is difficult.
I know that many people will be reading this and silently agreeing with me that they consider a camino accomplished when every step has been walked.
And, I know that many people will agree with me that the people coming on the camino for pretty much holiday purposes affects the mood of the camino and the logistics of finding accommodation, etc.
Anyway, I wanted to add my comments because I thought the discussion could do with another side of the argument.
Buen Camino!
 
You won't change the way I feel about walking every step and I won't change the way you feel abut not having to walk every step. As I wrote, I felt this discussion course do with another side of the argument because I don't agree that the camino can be cherry picked. You may. That's your stance. Anyway, Buen Camino!
 
What makes you think people treating the Camino as a holiday is A) Wrong or B) New ? More than one person has started on a walk and found it became a pilgrimage. I would worry about the mood in any pilgrim accommodation if I found myself within earshot of anyone as dogmatic as you appear.

As homework I suggest you read the Prologue to the Canterbury Tales. You might note that the pilgrims in question rode horses.

You could possibly try a little harder to not be conceited about your walking experience, maybe even try not to be patronising about others.
Then maybe we could share some wine and become a little more tolerant of each other. I would hate for all the tolerance to have to be on my side, though.
Oh, one further suggestion. When in a hole and it's getting too deep, it's probably time to stop digging.
 
Camino Ready, Backpacks, Boots etc
3rd Edition. Vital content training & pack guides avoid common mistakes, bed bugs etc
Walkervine said:
More racist responses. And, of course, Barbara is among them.
Click to expand...
I hesitate to engage with you, given previous experience, but I cannot see how you can label anyone racist merely for reacting to your post. Especially because we know nothing about you. Not your name, your race, your ethnicity (except in that you have claimed someone can magically perceive that you are half-Jewish), your place of national origin.

This does seem very much like trolling.

I remind you of Rule #5. No trolling.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Camino Photo

❓How to ask a question

How to post a new question on the Camino Forum.

Most read last week in this forum

Similar threads

Abandoned elderly pilgrims
Replies
51
Views
5K
Barbara
Pilgrim in trouble. NO FOOD w/2 Dogs btw Camponaraya and Cacabelos
Replies
5
Views
2K
Kathy F.
Random Acts of Kindness
Replies
27
Views
3K
Scoutbuff
Tales of Being the Only Pilgrim in the Albergue
Replies
47
Views
3K
JabbaPapa
Alert A flasher on the Camino del Norte
Replies
13
Views
3K
JCLima
Menu
Log in
Register