New long-term French visa possibility for some UK citizens

[JabbaPapa]

This may be good news for only a small number & proportion of UK pilgrims, and I'll steer right clear of the politics involved, but the new French immigration law has the following feature :

https://projetarcadie.com/content/decryptage-du-projet-loi-immigration

Les Britanniques propriétaires d’une résidence secondaire en France obtiennent automatiquement un visa long séjour en France.

That is to say, if you are a Briton residing in the UK but you also own a secondary or holiday home in France (or you're a direct family member), then you will be entitled by right to a long-term visa, meaning that you will not be subjected to the 90/180 Schengen Area rules (and with reference to earlier discussions in this place of long-term visas, this would be throughout the EU plus the non-EU Schengen countries).

 

[Marus99]

This may be good news for only a small number & proportion of UK pilgrims, and I'll steer right clear of the politics involved, but the new French immigration law has the following feature :

https://projetarcadie.com/content/decryptage-du-projet-loi-immigration

Les Britanniques propriétaires d’une résidence secondaire en France obtiennent automatiquement un visa long séjour en France.

That is to say, if you are a Briton residing in the UK but you also own a secondary or holiday home in France (or you're a direct family member), then you will be entitled by right to a long-term visa, meaning that you will not be subjected to the 90/180 Schengen Area rules (and with reference to earlier discussions in this place of long-term visas, this would be throughout the EU plus the non-EU Schengen countries).

As a home owner in Spain I can also get a long-term visa which does away with the 90/180 issue. However it still restricts me to 180 days a year. If I go over 180 I am deemed a tax resident with all the complications that introduces. Also the property value has to be over a particular threshold. France may well be the same.

 

[Kitsambler]

you also own a secondary or holiday home in France

Even when I was first walking the Le Puy route in 2010-2011, it seemed there were a great many of those small towns that were managing to survive only because of the large number of British holiday properties. So I hope this is beneficial for the economies of the small, otherwise withering towns that are so beautiful to visit.

 

[oursonpolaire]

I remember passing through a village north of Nantes and the church's concierge told me that only about 10 parishioners regularly attended mass, and that the majority were English. While this was before Brexit, an officer in a Breton mairie described to me the special school programme they had set up for integrating anglophone children into classes. I suspect that the past few years have provided difficulties in western France, and this measure will help somewhat.

 

[JabbaPapa]

As a home owner in Spain I can also get a long-term visa which does away with the 90/180 issue. However it still restricts me to 180 days a year. If I go over 180 I am deemed a tax resident with all the complications that introduces. Also the property value has to be over a particular threshold. France may well be the same.

French Law is different in several respects, including this one -- though as to the 180-day rule you refer to, it's the old pre-Schengen arrangement, and a reason why EU nationals can now stay up to 180 days in the UK.

As to taxation, all home owners in France are subjected to the local & housing taxes regardless of any circumstances of actually living there, but there's no primary double taxation, so if you're paying your primary taxes in the UK you won't get taxed in France. The property value is relevant only as to how much tax you'll be paying on it as the owner.

If habitually staying more than 180 days as a UK national, you'd be expected to become a French resident, but this long-term visa scheme is a way for French local, regional, and national Authorities to "officially look the other way" in typical Gallic fashion, similar to how the Spanish Guardia Civil exercises more tolerance than usual towards pilgrims while they're on their Caminos -- it's still a very bad idea to exceed 180 consecutive days in France under a 180-day provision (unless you're planning to live there and apply for residency on day 181 or something), but the French Police have bigger fish to fry than micromanage people with long-term visas spending more than 180 days in France annually if they never stay more than 180 days consecutively -- unless they're people living and working de facto permanently in France but "long-distance commuting" from the UK for tax avoidance purposes.

They're very unlikely to bother Brits with a retirement or holiday home or villa in the South of France, provided they never spend 180+ days consecutively in the country and they are not working there.

There are French long-term visas allowing a stay longer than 180 days, such as those given to students, but this seems to be a 180-day scheme.

 

[David61]

"then you will be entitled by right to a long-term visa,"
Not quite right, you will be then entitled by right to apply for a long-term visa. As in all such things the French reserve the right to refuse

 

[JabbaPapa]

"then you will be entitled by right to a long-term visa,"
Not quite right, you will be then entitled by right to apply for a long-term visa. As in all such things the French reserve the right to refuse

No I'm afraid that's not ... er ... right.

I got my current "permanent" 10-year residency card by right, in that it was automatically granted to me upon request, from provisions in the Brexit Treaty.

Yes of course I had to apply, provide details and so, and within a certain time frame, but that's not the same as a normal "right to apply" for residency which every foreigner has in France, including those from other EU Member States (I did that once too, and it was a much more involved process), and which could be refused.

To acquire that visa for British home owners will be a simple formality from that right to it, with no possibility of a refusal by the French Authorities (unless the person were under extraordinary administrative measures and whatnot, but that would be the exception that proved the rule).

Despite your impressions, foreigners in France do have certain individual rights, and British homeowners in France have gained this new one.

 

[David61]

No I'm afraid that's not ... er ... right.

I got my current "permanent" 10-year residency card by right, in that it was automatically granted to me upon request, from provisions in the Brexit Treaty.

Yes of course I had to apply, provide details and so, and within a certain time frame, but that's not the same as a normal "right to apply" for residency which every foreigner has in France, including those from other EU Member States (I did that once too, and it was a much more involved process), and which could be refused.

To acquire that visa for British home owners will be a simple formality from that right to it, with no possibility of a refusal by the French Authorities (unless the person were under extraordinary administrative measures and whatnot, but that would be the exception that proved the rule).

Despite your impressions, foreigners in France do have certain individual rights, and British homeowners in France have gained this new one.

"I got my current "permanent" 10-year residency card by right, in that it was automatically granted to me upon request, from provisions in the Brexit Treaty."
So. You applied for it then lol!! Upon request!

 

[JabbaPapa]

"I got my current "permanent" 10-year residency card by right, in that it was automatically granted to me upon request, from provisions in the Brexit Treaty."
So. You applied for it then lol!! Upon request!

Is that supposed to be some sort of "gotcha" ?

Doesn't really work -- and I'm unsure what you're so worked up about.

French adults have a right to their French carte d'identité, but it's obviously not going to spontaneously appear in their wallet by magic.

 

[Kathor1]

@David61, I don’t understand why you are commenting on the new article in section 2 du chapitre II du titre Ier du livre III du code de l’entrée et du séjour des étrangers et du droit d’asile which says: Le visa de long séjour est délivré de plein droit aux ressortissants britanniques propriétaires d’une résidence secondaire en France. Ceux-ci sont à ce titre exemptés de souscrire une demande de visa de long séjour.

Care to explain whether you are discussing the concept of “de plein droit” or whether are you trying to make fun of the law and administrative procedure of a foreign country, in this case France, simply because it is a foreign country and/or because it is France?

I am just curious because I don’t get the meaning and intention of your comments,

 

[Kathor1]

@David61, the last line in Article 1er K of the new law says: Les conditions d’application du présent article sont précisées par décret en Conseil d’État. So the very details are actually not known yet but that’s normal anywhere - the great lines are supplemented by the details.

The big news for Bristish home owners is the fact that they no longer have to souscrire une demande de visa de long séjour. They are now exemptés. In future it will be simpler, faster and they have more legal security. That’s what the British second home owners in France and their organisations had been lobbying for. A number of French parliamentarians took up their case and defended their interests and it’s a big win for them. But I’m sure you know this anyway.

Are you a British owner of a second home in France yourself perhaps?

 

[JabbaPapa]

Oh well, this has been shot down by the French Constitutional Council.

 

[David61]

Oh well, this has been shot down by the French Constitutional Council.

According to the news there can be no appeal either,The Constitutional Council's decisions are final, because it would be, erm, unconstitutional to argue with them!

 

[JabbaPapa]

According to the news there can be no appeal either,The Constitutional Council's decisions are final, because it would be, erm, unconstitutional to argue with them!

Not quite true, the Government could have withdrawn the text for more revision, but they didn't.

I looked at the decision itself, and it's part of a group of amendments that were struck down for procedural reasons, so that the content of the proposed amendment was not declared unconstitutional per se, and so it could be put forward at a later date -- I will of course completely avoid any and all political commentary ; though it is interesting Camino-wise that both Spain and France are testing the waters of trying to get the 90/180 day rules modified towards UK nationals and possibly some others.

 

[dick bird]

I will of course completely avoid any and all political commentary ; though it is interesting Camino-wise that both Spain and France are testing the waters of trying to get the 90/180 day rules modified towards UK nationals and possibly some others

Not necessarily political. There must be a lot of people (and businesses) all over the Schengen area that find the system, at least the 90/180 day part of it, doesn´t really work for them. And I´m not talking about expats here.

 

[David61]

Not quite true, the Government could have withdrawn the text for more revision, but they didn't.

I looked at the decision itself, and it's part of a group of amendments that were struck down for procedural reasons, so that the content of the proposed amendment was not declared unconstitutional per se, and so it could be put forward at a later date -- I will of course completely avoid any and all political commentary ; though it is interesting Camino-wise that both Spain and France are testing the waters of trying to get the 90/180 day rules modified towards UK nationals and possibly some others.

100% true. As you point out it could have been revised, it was not and now the decision is made it cannot be appealed. Your "what ifs" so not apply