Neophyte question: GPS, Tracks, Smartphone etc

[pilgr]

I have just downloaded a free version of OruxMaps. I tried downloading a map of Spain file (with apparently all the caminos) through the App called "Freizeitkarte". The file takes several hours to download. I have done it twice over the last 24 hours. I keep getting an error when I try to use the file through the App.

So then I tried downloading all the caminos kmz files: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...racks-of-all-spanish-caminos-in-one-file.341/

The files show up on the OruxMaps but only on the default map of the world.

Does anyone have a simple solution to all of this?

Thanks!

 

[dougfitz]

I had similar problems with OruxMaps, and the issue appears to be the file format of the maps. The default appears to be that it downloads what are known as raster maps, and this results in enormously large files, some even over a gigabyte. and there are several of these to cover all of Spain. Somehow, it wants to load these maps at every scale available, from the equivalent of 1:25,000 with the fantastic detail that contains, through to 1:1,000,000 or thereabouts. These are wonderful maps, but certainly overkill for most people on the camino.

What I couldn't find was a way of getting the app to use a much smaller vector format product, such as the map data from OpenStreetMaps, and in the end I continued to use the OSM mapping downloaded onto my regular Garmin GPS.

You might find that there are other Camino-specific apps that provide reasonable enough mapping that (a) don't require raster mapping data, and (b) allow you to download the information so that you are not relying on having an internet connection every time you want to use the app.

 

[Doogman]

Hi: After obtaining some advice from other Forum members, I downloaded Maps.Me (free) on my phone. It divides each country into quite a large number of small sections, so you just need to download the parts of the country that you will be travelling in. You can then add an overlay from Google Earth of the track you want to follow. I have not used this app for navigation in the field yet, but will be doing so this summer. It appears that it should work well.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

If you want GPS as an interesting toy, play away! Otherwise, you do not need it to find your way. Pilgrims take Kindles, heating coils, tents, extensive map, etc., all of which are interesting as diversions. If yours is a GPS and tracks, you will have plenty of time to use them. Chacun a son gout, the French might say...

 

[pilgr]

i downloaded map.me and the specific Spanish regions for the Camino de Levante. How do I get the actual track of the Levante on the map?

Hi: After obtaining some advice from other Forum members, I downloaded Maps.Me (free) on my phone. It divides each country into quite a large number of small sections, so you just need to download the parts of the country that you will be travelling in. You can then add an overlay from Google Earth of the track you want to follow. I have not used this app for navigation in the field yet, but will be doing so this summer. It appears that it should work well.

 

[Doogman]

You need to find a kmz file of the route. There is likely one on the Resources section of the Forum. Save the file somewhere, and then e-mail the file to yourself. When you go to open the file on your phone, it should ask you what you want to open the file with. If you choose Maps.Me it should overlay the route on top of the maps that you have downloaded. It has worked for me. Good luck!

 

[Doogman]

Looking at the Resources section, it seems like the only applicable file is the one that shows all Spanish Camino routes. In addition to a bunch of other routes, it shows the camino beginning in Valencia, which I believe is what you want. If you surf around on the internet you may be able to find a dedicated file that shows the Levante route.

 

[C clearly]

i downloaded map.me and the specific Spanish regions for the Camino de Levante. How do I get the actual track of the Levante on the map?

Thanks to some recent help from @peregrina2000 and@dougfitz, I have downloaded some tracks from this site. You need to pick your camino and then download each day's track separately.

 

[peregrina2000]

Thanks to some recent help from @peregrina2000 and@dougfitz, I have downloaded some tracks from this site. You need to pick your camino and then download each day's track separately.

Ok, C clearly you are now way ahead of me. The tracks I see there are all .kml and I only know how to download .gpx tracks. I know that @dougfitz can do the conversion but I can't. Doesn't your GPS need .gpx tracks?

And I would also say that I still like the wikiloc.com site better because I can look at the routes and compare various users' tracks and see which ones seem most up to date and most consistent with what I know about the route. That is time consuming, but if you are going on a remote camino it is probably worth it.

And to the OP -- I walked the Levante without a GPS and was fine. The marking is generally quite good. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that I would only use a GPS on remote routes like the Castellano-Aragones, the San Olav, or the Olvidado. And even on those caminos, my preference is to keep the GPS out of sight until I lose the arrows. There is no bigger "camino killer" than walking with your head pointed downward following the trail on your phone/GPS. The camino glory is all around you, in every direction but down.

 

[pilgr]

You all are a big help! I was able to use Map.me, download specific Spanish areas, then (per C Clearly) download the individual tracks. Plus it is good to know that I don't need the GPS, as I am not a big map guy to begin with. But I have read several places the GPS/coordinates tracks are helpful especially navigating through towns.

 

[C clearly]

Ok, C clearly you are now way ahead of me. The tracks I see there are all .kml and I only know how to download .gpx tracks. I know that @dougfitz can do the conversion but I can't. Doesn't your GPS need .gpx tracks?

I have no idea what conversion he was talking about! And I don't know what gpx files are for. I was downloading to my Android phone.

I have the tracks now on maps.me on my phone, but also downloaded the Wikiloc app and am playing with that, trying to figure it out.

 

[peregrina2000]

I have no idea what conversion he was talking about! And I don't know what gpx files are for. I was downloading to my Android phone.

I have the tracks now on maps.me on my phone, but also downloaded the Wikiloc app and am playing with that, trying to figure it out.

That's great, but I don't understand a word of it.

 

[peregrina2000]

I have no idea what conversion he was talking about! And I don't know what gpx files are for. I was downloading to my Android phone.

I have the tracks now on maps.me on my phone, but also downloaded the Wikiloc app and am playing with that, trying to figure it out.

C Clearly, we CLEARLY have to meet up on the Camino somewhere someplace sometime.

 

[C clearly]

C Clearly, we CLEARLY have to meet up on the Camino somewhere someplace sometime.

That would be great, but we'd have to successfully navigate to the same place at the same time!

 

[peregrina2000]

You all are a big help! I was able to use Map.me, download specific Spanish areas, then (per C Clearly) download the individual tracks. Plus it is good to know that I don't need the GPS, as I am not a big map guy to begin with. But I have read several places the GPS/coordinates tracks are helpful especially navigating through towns.

For me, the hardest part of the Levante was going through towns. The marking is less than excellent. But the guidebook published by the Amigos was more than enough. It always described the in-town route, telling you, for example, that the camino passed by the local library. I found that no one knew where the camino was, but everyone knew where the library was. So I made it just fine without a GPS.

 

[pilgr]

I have no idea what conversion he was talking about! And I don't know what gpx files are for. I was downloading to my Android phone.

I have the tracks now on maps.me on my phone, but also downloaded the Wikiloc app and am playing with that, trying to figure it out.

Instead of using Map.me, is it possible to use the Tracks on Google Maps or Google Earth instead?

 

[C clearly]

Instead of using Map.me, is it possible to use the Tracks on Google Maps or Google Earth instead?

Yes, it is, but I am not very skilled with them. There is the issue of having to download all the maps for offline use, too.

 

[Juanajoanna]

I used C Clearly method for VDLP. It worked perfectly. At first I did. It understand the part about emailing it to myself but when opening on my iPhone the maps.me option works very well.
It can be KML or KMZ

 

[DkPond]

Instead of using Map.me, is it possible to use the Tracks on Google Maps or Google Earth instead?

Instead of using Map.me, is it possible to use the Tracks on Google Maps or Google Earth instead?

Yes. It's fairly straightforward, though it takes a little figuring out.
(This assumes a desktop or laptop.)

(1) Download all your KML files and have them in one place.
(2) Bring up Google Maps and go to the main menu (the 3 horizontal lines in the upper left hand corner).
(3) Go to "Your Places"
(4) Go to "Maps"
(5) "Create Map" is at the bottom. Click it.
(6) Name your map, something like Levante (1 - 10) or whatever you want.
(7) Import your first KML file, then the next KML, etc. You are limited to ten imports per map so for the Levante, for example, with its 42 KML files, you will end up having 5 maps.

That's all there is to it. When you use Google Maps, you can just go to Your Places > My Maps > > then select one of these as an overlay.
DkP

 

[pilgr]

Thanks! Once you create 4 or 5 maps, do those same maps show up on your Android phone and are usable on Google Maps?

Yes. It's fairly straightforward, though it takes a little figuring out.
(This assumes a desktop or laptop.)

(1) Download all your KML files and have them in one place.
(2) Bring up Google Maps and go to the main menu (the 3 horizontal lines in the upper left hand corner).
(3) Go to "Your Places"
(4) Go to "Maps"
(5) "Create Map" is at the bottom. Click it.
(6) Name your map, something like Levante (1 - 10) or whatever you want.
(7) Import your first KML file, then the next KML, etc. You are limited to ten imports per map so for the Levante, for example, with its 42 KML files, you will end up having 5 maps.

That's all there is to it. When you use Google Maps, you can just go to Your Places > My Maps > > then select one of these as an overlay.
DkP

 

[DkPond]

Thanks! Once you create 4 or 5 maps, do those same maps show up on your Android phone and are usable on Google Maps?

I can't speak to Android phones, but I would assume that if it works on an iPhone, which it does, it would work in Android as well.

I'm looking at my iPhone now and seeing the five maps I created this afternoon on my desktop for the Levante. (The blinking dot representing me doesn't appear on any these maps, but that's because I'm on a different continent. Have to scroll way over for that.)

DkPond

 

[dougfitz]

Yes. It's fairly straightforward, though it takes a little figuring out.
(This assumes a desktop or laptop.)

(1) Download all your KML files and have them in one place.
(2) Bring up Google Maps and go to the main menu (the 3 horizontal lines in the upper left hand corner).
(3) Go to "Your Places"
(4) Go to "Maps"
(5) "Create Map" is at the bottom. Click it.
(6) Name your map, something like Levante (1 - 10) or whatever you want.
(7) Import your first KML file, then the next KML, etc. You are limited to ten imports per map so for the Levante, for example, with its 42 KML files, you will end up having 5 maps.

That's all there is to it. When you use Google Maps, you can just go to Your Places > My Maps > > then select one of these as an overlay.
DkP

Thank you for this process.

The requirement to use a single layer for each individual .kml file seemed rather cumbersome, so I tried importing the stage data in .gpx files instead. One .gpx file can contain all the stages for a particular route, subject to some file size limitations. I tried using data for the Via de la Plata and Sanabres. If you want to see the results, they are here. This only used two layers, but I think it would also have been possible to amalgamate the files for these two camino routes into one large file, and still stay within the overall file size limitations for Google Maps.

It would also pay to have a pattern of downloading the map data for the next few days as an offline area when you have a wifi connection.

 

[wayfarer]

Thank you DkP, this does work for Android.

 

[dougfitz]

Thanks! Once you create 4 or 5 maps, do those same maps show up on your Android phone and are usable on Google Maps?

Yes. Open Google Maps, go to Your Places and then Maps, and any maps you have created on a desktop/laptop should be listed.

 

[DkPond]

Thank you for this process.

The requirement to use a single layer for each individual .kml file seemed rather cumbersome, so I tried importing the stage data in .gpx files instead. One .gpx file can contain all the stages for a particular route, subject to some file size limitations. I tried using data for the Via de la Plata and Sanabres. If you want to see the results, they are here. This only used two layers, but I think it would also have been possible to amalgamate the files for these two camino routes into one large file, and still stay within the overall file size limitations for Google Maps.

It would also pay to have a pattern of downloading the map data for the next few days as an offline area when you have a wifi connection.

Dougfitz,

Thanks for this information. It is extremely interesting and helpful.

I wasn't aware of benefits of using .gpx files (versus the KML files), so I searched for them for the Camino de Levante, which I will hopefully begin this April. There appears to be one at Traildino (https://www.traildino.com/trace/continents-Europe/countries-Spain/trails-Camino_de_Levante). At first glance, it appears to be a combination of the Levante/Sureste and, as you point out, has the advantage of only having to import one file into a single map that covers all the stages from Valencia to Zamora. (This is much less tedious than download 42 separate stage maps and loading them one at a time. It also eliminates the need to have five separate maps because of the 10-file per map KML limitation.)

Can you tell me where the best source for the .gpx file(s) is for the Sanabres?

Dkpond

 

[pilgr]

I used the gpx file approach and it works fine on Google Maps (for Android too)!

Of course, the "Traildino" version for the Levante is different than @CClearly's kml site version. But no big deal.

 

[dougfitz]

Can you tell me where the best source for the .gpx file(s) is for the Sanabres?

I am cautious about any one source being 'best'. In the resources section (here) I have put up the Centro de Deschargas provided tracks translated from separate .kml stages into a single .gpx file. There is an explanation of the source at the link. I am sure you will find other sources.

There are pluses and minuses to using the .gpx format. It is convenient for those of us using handheld GPS units like the Garmin, where it is not only the defacto standard for sharing information, but often the only format the handheld device recognizes. However, there are traps, including the comparatively large file sizes that result. Part of this is because the number of track points often far exceeds what is required for navigation purposes, and partly because it is a less efficient format than some of the newer formats like .kml.

The Centro de Deschargas track information seems to strike a reasonable balance about the number of track points between having too few and too many track points listed. I have compared the information they provide for a leg of the Camino Ingles, where my recorded track had over 1500 points. When that was thinned out without losing the form of the track, it came down to about 450 track points, and to retain good navigation detail I was able to reduce it by more than 50%, down to 210 track points. This is about the same as the Centro de Deschargas provided information.

I have checked two other levels of trimming, one of 100 track points, and the other at just 50 track points. Both were usable for navigation, but the lower numbers starts to miss out on important details that might be important for someone walking the route for the first time. For example, features like a series of switchbacks in the road just became the start and end points.

For otherwise identical data sets, the .gpx format file size seems to be about twice as large as individual .kml format files. I haven't tested what formats like GeoJSON can achieve, but they claim even more efficiency. This may not be that important for any individual user, but for large archives of geospatial information, I suspect storage efficiency is still a major issue, and techniques to reduce files sizes are still important.

Which is all rather geeky! I will leave it at that and hope you have fun exploring what Google Maps can do for you.

ps many smartphone GPS apps seem to be able to use several different file formats, and are not restricted to using the .gpx format.

 

[C clearly]

This thread is very helpful as I learn about GPS, etc. Please keep the questions and answers coming.

 

[Thomas1962]

As far as I know, for googlemaps you still need data, or need to upload each individual part of the camino, isn't it?
I use maps.me (offline) and downloaded the kmz file with all spanish tracks. Worked perfect for me. I walked with if from Amsterdam to SdC, didn't any routeguide. .
Soon the Dutch camino association will start a working group to update the kmz tracks

 

[pilgr]

Does anyone know about where to find the KML files for the Camino de Sanabres? I don't think I saw it in the Centro de Deschargas.

 

[pilgr]

Does anyone know about where to find the KML files for the Camino de Sanabres? I don't think I saw it in the Centro de Deschargas.

Please disregard. I found it in that file. Thanks Dogfitz for posting it!

 

[peregrina2000]

So, if you will indulge another neophyte question, what is the difference between gpx files and kml? I think my GPS (A Garmin Dakota) requires gpx, but I have no idea what the differences are.

 

[dougfitz]

So, if you will indulge another neophyte question, what is the difference between gpx files and kml? I think my GPS (A Garmin Dakota) requires gpx, but I have no idea what the differences are.

KML stands for Keyhole Markup Language, a file format developed by a firm named Keyhole before it was taken over by Google. My best understanding is that it is largely about the presentation features needed to display geospatial information. So the information it contains is about points, polygons, text descriptions, etc.
GPX is the GPs eXchange format, and is used to store waypoint, route and track data. Not only can it contain just the basic information about a specific point (lat/long) but can be extended to include the time the information was collected, elevation, number of visible satellites, etc. For example, Garmin (and I suspect most other makers of fitness watches) include heart rate and cadence information in their GPX extensions.
Typically dedicated GPS units like the Garmin use the GPX file formats for data storage and exchange, and will not be able to use KML file formats. However, Garmin's latest desktop application (Basecamp) can import KML file formats. I expect other dedicated GPS makers will have desktop applications with this functionality, and there are many other desktop mapping applications that can do this, as well as format translators like GPSBabel.

 

[pilgr]

After just returning from a successful walk from Valencia to Santiago, the KML files were key to this thanks to you all!

Now I am interested in walking from Geneva to SJPP. Does anyone know where I may find the KML files for Geneva to Le Puy??? DogFitz posted the link above for main routes such as Le Puy to SJPP.

Thanks!

 

[notion900]

On my most recent walk, the people I observed taking the most wrong turns, were the ones most reliant on electronic maps. One guy who was wedded to his GPS told me he had got properly lost 3 times on a day I had not even needed to look at my guidebook. I later went shopping with him, and he was genuinely surprised when I was able to bring us back to the town square, having walked a 15 minute circuit of the streets. I even had to point out boot prints and bike tyre tracks to another guy, who was insistent we turn back.

Over reliance on these maps seems to me to deaden intellectual and instinctive modes of navigation, such as looking at the sun, the path, the topography, and even the way markers.

My favourite navigation tip of my last trip came from a Spanish guy. We couldn't find the well hidden bar in a village. Suddenly he pointed "Over there: badly parked vans."

 

[pilgr]

On my most recent walk, the people I observed taking the most wrong turns, were the ones most reliant on electronic maps. One guy who was wedded to his GPS told me he had got properly lost 3 times on a day I had not even needed to look at my guidebook. I later went shopping with him, and he was genuinely surprised when I was able to bring us back to the town square, having walked a 15 minute circuit of the streets. I even had to point out boot prints and bike tyre tracks to another guy, who was insistent we turn back.

Over reliance on these maps seems to me to deaden intellectual and instinctive modes of navigation, such as looking at the sun, the path, the topography, and even the way markers.

My favourite navigation tip of my last trip came from a Spanish guy. We couldn't find the well hidden bar in a village. Suddenly he pointed "Over there: badly parked vans."

Thanks for your suggestion.

My most recent trip was the first time I used KML files and Allejuah! Thank god! I would still be on the camino de levante with the buzzards picking over my bones if it wasn't for those files.

 

[newfydog]

I'm late to this thread, but I'll add a bit:

Maps.me has become a favorite of mine. I have used it in remote parts of Argentina and this last week in Cyprus, and it has great maps, off line which are a flash to download.

I'll say this one more time: You DO NOT need cellular service to use GPS. Google requires it for maps, but if you download a map you are all set anywhere.

My old favorite MotionX is a better gps program but the maps take forever to download and won't zoom up the way a maps.me map will.

For those who feel you don't need gps because the routes are often well marked, you are missing out on having great maps for side exploration and the opportunity to record a digital diary of the trip. For recording a daily track I still use MotionX. It is also very good for converting a .gpx file to .kmz. Use the share function in MotionX......it emails you a track in both .gpx and.kmz formats.

 

[notion900]

I would still be on the camino de levante with the buzzards picking over my bones if it wasn't for those files.

Nothing wrong with using them, but I think mixed methods of navigation are always most reliable.