Negative experience in Lorca

[Stephanie Martin]

It's been more than a week on the Camino for me so far, and while I've met amazingly kind-hearted pilgrims, amidst all the aches, pains and joys of the Camino, I had a negative experience at the cafe run by Albergue Lorca 2 days ago and am hoping I will not continue to be affected (emotionally).

I was unwell and chose to stay an extra day in Lorca. There are only 2 albergues in Lorca and they happen to be right opposite each other (on a narrow street). I had booked into La Bodega Albergue (lovely rooms and very friendly staff) just opposite Albergue Lorca. Both albergues run cafes but the cafe at the Albergue I stayed at was closed, and not yet open the next morning. So I walked over to the cafe opposite (run by the owner of Albergue Lorca : Jose Ramon). There were lots of passing pilgrims eating at this Albergue that morning, it was the only possible eating place in Lorca, which is a small town.

I tried to order an orange juice from him (Jose Ramon of Albergue Lorca), but he refused to serve me when he knew I was staying in the Albergue opposite. He kept telling me to go outside and leave his cafe. This was even after I had bumped into a friend, another pilgrim whom I saw eating at his cafe (she had stopped there for a break en route to Estella). He refused to let her order for me as well and she insisted and ordered anyway (saying it was for herself).

I later found out that there used to be a rivalry between the previous management of the Albergue opposite and Albergue Lorca. But I don't understand why the owner has to take it out on innocent pilgrims. It really ruins the otherwise kind and loving atmosphere on the Camino.

There were lots of other pilgrims stopping by to eat at Jose's cafe at Albergue Lorca because it was the only eating place opened in Lorca at that time. He didn't stop them as long as they were either pilgrims on their way passing by, or pilgrims staying at his hostel. I was refused simply because I had chosen to stay at the Albergue opposite, unaware of any rivalries.

I wondered also if his treatment of me had anything to do with me being a coloured person. I'm trying not to let this experience taint my journey on the Camino so far, or my impression of Spaniards. I'm also trying to let go and not let this affect me too much, nor to internalize someone else's poor behaviour.

I did speak to the management at the Albergue I had chosen to stay at and they too disagree with his behavior. They felt sorry for me and offered me complimentary juice when they had opened their cafe later in the day. I hope no one else experiences this discriminatory and backward behaviour from Albergue Lorca.

 

[Marbe2]

I don’t know anything about the dynamics between albergues but I am so sorry you had such an experience. We traveled on one camino with two African-american sisters who had a great time and had very positive experiences with accommodation hosts and restaurants. I hope one bad experience will be outweighed by many wonderful interactions!

 

[trecile]

. I'm also trying to let go and not let this affect me too much, nor to internalize someone else's poor behaviour

I hope that you can let this go because you did nothing wrong!
This is all down to the poor behaviour of the albergue owner.

And I hope that you are feeling better soon and back on the Camino.

 

[Mikel Olivares]

He can't to refuse to serve you.
You should to have called to Guardia Civil.

 

[trecile]

He can't to refuse to serve you.
You should to have called to Guardia Civil.

Not too late to report him.

 

[Flog]

He can't to refuse to serve you.
You should to have called to Guardia Civil.

Really? Call the police, the bad man wouldn't serve me?

You really shouldn't be wasting all this energy complaining about someone's petty behaviour, or taking such a petty incident personally.
Move on, put it behind and enjoy all the positive experiences your camino brings.

 

[trecile]

Really? Call the police, the bad man wouldn't serve me?

You really shouldn't be wasting all this energy complaining about someone's petty behaviour, or taking such a petty incident personally.
Move on, put it behind and enjoy all the positive experiences your camino brings.

I agree that she should move on, but if it's illegal for the proprietor to refuse to serve a paying customer I believe that he should be reported.

All establishments must have hojas de reclamación - complaint forms available to consumers.

What is the Hoja de Reclamacion?

The hoja de reclamacion in Spain is a consumer complaint form, which you can request for any reason and gets marked on the establishment's official record.

www.caserexpatinsurance.com

The division of the Guardia Civil that looks over the Camino should be interested in the mistreatment of pilgrims on the Camino.

 

[Theatregal]

He can't to refuse to serve you.
You should to have called to Guardia Civil.

Not too late to report him.

The division of the Guardia Civil that looks over the Camino should be interested in the mistreatment of pilgrims on the Camino.

Seriously? For refusing to serve an orange juice? These comments seem a bit over the top.

I have stayed at Albergue Lorca twice and found Jose Ramon to be a very kind, fair person who went out of his way to help me and other pilgrims staying there. People I know who have stayed there in subsequent years have had similar experiences. When I stayed, the albergue across the street was not open in the morning. Pilgrims were welcomed into Albergue Lorca for breakfast.

Refusal of service as a mistreatment of pilgrims? A Guardia Civil matter? Really? I do not in any way intend to diminish the experience or doubt the feelings that the OP reports but I find the rabble rousing comments a bit much.

 

[C clearly]

I later found out that there used to be a rivalry between the previous management of the Albergue opposite and Albergue Lorca. But I don't understand why the owner has to take it out on innocent pilgrims. It really ruins the otherwise kind and loving atmosphere on the Camino.

I have heard of such cases, but not specifically in this location. As I read your account, I was thinking that this was definitely unpleasant and humiliating behaviour on his part - something that we encounter from time to time, and the Camino is no exception. It is a situation that I would try to put behind me as soon as possible, by taking a long brisk walk.

Then I got to the following statement, which complicates things...

I wondered also if his treatment of me had anything to do with me being a coloured person.

His rudeness was known by others, so perhaps it is just that you were easier for him to recognize and remember. However, I would not presume to say what it is like to live as a person of a visible minority.

I hope you are feeling better soon!

 

[VNwalking]

Not a place for the GC. But definitely ask for this:

All establishments must have hojas de reclamación - complaint forms available to consumers.

https://www.spainexpat.com/information/hojas-de-reclamaciones-official-consumer-complaint-forms/

 

[henrythedog]

I agree.

But I genuinely don’t know at what point in the proceedings one becomes a ‘consumer’.

Not a place for the GC. But definitely ask for this:

https://www.spainexpat.com/information/hojas-de-reclamaciones-official-consumer-complaint-forms/

 

[MinaKamina]

Allow for the possibility that since you were sick, you did indeed look sick, and given that we are still in the middle of a pandemic (ongoing), the owner of the establishment did not want you there for that reason.

 

[Kathor1]

Among the few negative comments on Gronze.com about this albergue in Lorca one can find these two comments: (translated from Spanish)

13 July 2021

I slept in the albergue across the street, and I wanted to have dinner [in the other albergue] and the owner told me, if you sleep there, have dinner there. He did not let me in, neither me nor all those who were staying in the other albergue. ​

​

08 September 2019

He did not want to give us to eat because we were housed in the other albergue in the village: I'm not talking about the communal dinner but about everything that is loudly advertised on the outside boards for all pilgrims - for everybody except for those who are staying in the albergue across the street it seems.​

Call it sad, call it against the pilgrimage spirit, call it childish. Illegal it isn't. Bar and shop owners are not obliged to serve everybody. They must not discriminate on religious, ethnic or similar grounds but this policy does not qualify on such grounds.

 

[nathanael]

It's been more than a week on the Camino for me so far, and while I've met amazingly kind-hearted pilgrims, amidst all the aches, pains and joys of the Camino, I had a negative experience at the cafe run by Albergue Lorca 2 days ago and am hoping I will not continue to be affected (emotionally).

I was unwell and chose to stay an extra day in Lorca. There are only 2 albergues in Lorca and they happen to be right opposite each other (on a narrow street). I had booked into La Bodega Albergue (lovely rooms and very friendly staff) just opposite Albergue Lorca. Both albergues run cafes but the cafe at the Albergue I stayed at was closed, and not yet open the next morning. So I walked over to the cafe opposite (run by the owner of Albergue Lorca : Jose Ramon). There were lots of passing pilgrims eating at this Albergue that morning, it was the only possible eating place in Lorca, which is a small town.

I tried to order an orange juice from him (Jose Ramon of Albergue Lorca), but he refused to serve me when he knew I was staying in the Albergue opposite. He kept telling me to go outside and leave his cafe. This was even after I had bumped into a friend, another pilgrim whom I saw eating at his cafe (she had stopped there for a break en route to Estella). He refused to let her order for me as well and she insisted and ordered anyway (saying it was for herself).

I later found out that there used to be a rivalry between the previous management of the Albergue opposite and Albergue Lorca. But I don't understand why the owner has to take it out on innocent pilgrims. It really ruins the otherwise kind and loving atmosphere on the Camino.

There were lots of other pilgrims stopping by to eat at Jose's cafe at Albergue Lorca because it was the only eating place opened in Lorca at that time. He didn't stop them as long as they were either pilgrims on their way passing by, or pilgrims staying at his hostel. I was refused simply because I had chosen to stay at the Albergue opposite, unaware of any rivalries.

I wondered also if his treatment of me had anything to do with me being a coloured person. I'm trying not to let this experience taint my journey on the Camino so far, or my impression of Spaniards. I'm also trying to let go and not let this affect me too much, nor to internalize someone else's poor behaviour.

I did speak to the management at the Albergue I had chosen to stay at and they too disagree with his behavior. They felt sorry for me and offered me complimentary juice when they had opened their cafe later in the day. I hope no one else experiences this discriminatory and backward behaviour from Albergue Lorca.

sad to hear that don't let get you down just take a deep breath and say so be it and continue on your journey.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Castilians have a little saying: "pueblo pequeno, odio grande." Small town, big hate.
I don't think this is a case of racism, I think it's a case of a sad person with a character deficit taking out his disdain for his neighbor on a stranger he'll never have to see again. Pathetic. But not a police matter.

Also, every business owner reserves the right to serve whomever he chooses. Just because you show up and want to buy something, does NOT obligate him to serve you. Pilgrims need to take this on board.
Nobody owes you anything.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Castilians have a little saying: "pueblo pequeno, odio grande." Small town, big hate.
I don't think this is a case of racism, I think it's a case of a sad person with a character deficit taking out his disdain for his neighbor on a stranger he'll never have to see again. Pathetic. But not a police matter.

Also, every business owner reserves the right to serve whomever he chooses. Just because you show up and want to buy something, does NOT obligate him to serve you. Pilgrims need to take this on board.
Nobody owes you anything.

I agree, but the owner's behavior seems rude and still leaves a "bad taste" in the mouth of the one who is being refused service.

 

[oursonpolaire]

I was once in a restaurant where the treatment caused me to call for the libro de reclamaciones--- people who know me are aware that I have a very long fuse--- and the matter was rectified immediately. They are examined regularly by inspectors (I'm not sure for which agency they work) and proprietors must provide a satisfactory response-- I gather that they are nervous of not doing so.

 

[VNwalking]

Nobody owes you anything.

Amen. This simple truth is being forgotten.

the owner's behavior still leaves a "bad taste" in the mouth of the one who is being refused service.

If someone walks off with a bad taste that is theirs to deal with. Perhaps the bad taste is justifiable (as in this case), perhaps not - people will say and do all sorts of things to us, good and bad. Whether or not we drag the reaction to all that around is actually a choice. Some people are lifetime victims of nothing, while others transcend the worst possible abuse. It's up to us.

If you feel badly or unfairly treated, file a hoja then and there - and if it's egregious you can also make a point to let them know you'll give them an awful review on TA or GoogleMap - then walk on.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Amen. This simple truth is being forgotten.

It's not forgotten by me.

Some people are lifetime victims of nothing, while others transcend the worst possible abuse. It's up to us.

There is certainly some middle ground here. You speak only of one extreme or the other.

 

[WalkinRon]

Stephanie, I am sorry that you were subjected to this. If a proprietor is unkind to some of my fellow pilgrims, then it's irrelevant that he's "kind, fair..." to many pilgrims. (Sounds more like greed than genuine kindness.) Coming here for support was the right thing to do! I understand that an unkind person can ruin your day, but don't let it ruin your Camino. You're the lucky one because you'll continue on your way and forget about it. Apparently, that person is, sadly, stuck (in more ways than one).