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I wonder if Cruise companies as regular customers, get a discountLOL. Before you get too deep into the discussion, if I remember correctly, the last figure I have seen is actually €500 per swing. Again if memory does not deceive me this was posted by a forum member who had made an arrangement for the Botafumeiro to swing last year and shared details of the process.
And also that there is no official fee and that it can depend on who makes the contribution, for example when it is group from a local parish perhaps or from a senior school. When you watch the pilgrim mass online you sometimes notice that a representative of such a group steps forward to the altar and gives an address to the Apostle.
I am confident in saying that we will never really know a definite answer to the topics that we wonder about.
I never wonder about this. I file these threads away under "Money and the Catholic Church" which is apparently a long-running topic of interest.I wonder if Cruise companies as regular customers, get a discount
You give me an idea.I could imagine the Cathedral gets multiple requests some days for the Botafumeiro, so I wonder if
- the first to ask, pays, and the rest get told its swing anyway.
- the €300 gets split between all the applicants, bit like splitting a restaurant bill.
- The Cathedral considers it a donation, not a payment, and takes €300 from everyone.
Perhaps the cathedral should attach a streaming message banner from the sponsor whenever the botafumeiro is being paid for privately....I think you go get reserved seats as a ‘sponsors’ of the event. It might give the game away if there were multiple.
A friend in Santiago has just checked with the sacristy directly. The current standard fee is indeed 500 euros.LOL. Before you get too deep into the discussion, if I remember correctly, the last figure I have seen is actually €500 per swing.
I don't know, some posts on here have suggested that large areas of pews are, in fact, reserved by tour companies, but I have no personal knowledge of that.I think you do get reserved seats as ‘sponsors’ of the event. It might give the game away if there were multiple.
The eight people who swing the Botafumeiro are called tiraboleiros. They are lay people and most already work on the cathedral staff in some capacity. They are paid a small additional fee each time the botafumeiro is used. I am told that fee is now 15 euros.I am not sure how much the church “makes” on the donation but the people that are required to swing it (can’t remember their titles) are not monks who work for the diocese.
That may be hearsay. Forum members who actually made arrangements for the Botafumeiro to swing reported a rather limited number of seats reserved for them.some posts on here have suggested that large areas of pews are, in fact, reserved by tour companies, but I have no personal knowledge of that
In these forum threads it often transpires that some people view this as a money-making business, or they question the actual cost for maintenance and operation and see a huge discrepancy between presumed actual cost and the financial contribution of currently €500. Others see the contribution as a donation or sponsorship money.The eight people who swing the Botafumeiro are called tiraboleiros. They are lay people and most already work on the cathedral staff in some capacity. They are paid a small additional fee each time the botafumeiro is used. I am told that fee is now 15 euros.
Botafumeiro requires 8 tiraboleiros: I am not sure it is that profitable...a huge discrepancy between presumed actual cost and the financial contribution of currently €500.
I was in Santiago a week ago and the pews in front of me (facing Santiago) and to the right were reserved for volunteers. I do not know about the other front pews.I don't know, some posts on here have suggested that large areas of pews are, in fact, reserved by tour companies, but I have no personal knowledge of that.
I have been told today that each tiraboleiro is paid 15 euros for each occasion when the botafumeiro is used. If the current fee charged by the cathedral is 500 euros per event that suggests that 380 euros can then go towards maintenance, charcoal, incense and so on. I have no idea what the actual costs of maintaining the Botafumeiro and its support system may be. Clearly not all the 500 euros can be considered "profit" but I think it is unlikely that in the long term frequent use of the Botafumeiro is a drain on the cathedral resources.Botafumeiro requires 8 tiraboleiros: I am not sure it is that profitable...
Ah, perhaps that is it.I was in Santiago a week ago and the pews in front of me (facing Santiago) and to the right were reserved for volunteers. I do not know about the other front pews.
Well, is it even current information that the tiraboleiros get paid for each swinging of the Botafumeiro? Or is that some leftover from past stories?Botafumeiro requires 8 tiraboleiros: I am not sure it is that profitable...
My friend and I actually paid for it when we finished the Frances in Oct 2022. First, the nuns on the phone spoke very little English, so being fluent in Spanish is a plus (my friend speaks fluently). You have to send a digital payment - it wasn't in cash - this was a bit of a hassle as we're both Americans and trying to arrange that payment, from your phone in Spain, isn't straightforward necessarily. Second, as another pilgrim said, you get two rows of pews (seats) reserved for you in the front, right in the path of it - really priceless seating. That said, don't be late (in fact be early). Once they start no one can get in. We had a couple friends that came late, and despite the reserved, open seats, they had to stand way in the back. It was really an amazing memory, and we got to share it with some of our other friends (the ones that made it on timeI noticed the other thread about arranging for the Botafumeiro to swing and it suggests the cost is circa €300. Now if I was flying half way around the world and I wanted to see the Botafumeiro swing and it only cost €300, it would be swinging. But this got me thinking, dangerous I know, but bear with me.
I could imagine the Cathedral gets multiple requests some days for the Botafumeiro, so I wonder if
- the first to ask, pays, and the rest get told its swing anyway.
- the €300 gets split between all the applicants, bit like splitting a restaurant bill.
- The Cathedral considers it a donation, not a payment, and takes €300 from everyone.
Rather more than the cathedral thought they were I suspect given that the apparatus was out of action for quite a while recently. The cost of repairs and the associated lost revenue would be considerable.the actual costs of maintaining the Botafumeiro and its support system may be.
Option 1 is the correct choice. The party that pays gets reserved seating - up front. There is no cost-sharing provision for multiple groups.I noticed the other thread about arranging for the Botafumeiro to swing and it suggests the cost is circa €300. Now if I was flying half way around the world and I wanted to see the Botafumeiro swing and it only cost €300, it would be swinging. But this got me thinking, dangerous I know, but bear with me.
I could imagine the Cathedral gets multiple requests some days for the Botafumeiro, so I wonder if
- the first to ask, pays, and the rest get told its swing anyway.
- the €300 gets split between all the applicants, bit like splitting a restaurant bill.
- The Cathedral considers it a donation, not a payment, and takes €300 from everyone.
After my 2018 Camino I was there early for a mass where the botafumeiro was swung and informed by cathedral staff that those seats were being saved that those seats were being reserved for those who had sponsored the botafumeiro.That may be hearsay. Forum members who actually made arrangements for the Botafumeiro to swing reported a rather limited number of seats reserved for them.
I used to think that the reserved seats were in the main nave but for the poster in the previous comment it was in the south transept. That's the front rows in the part of the Cathedral where you enter these days, i.e. when you walk through the large portal of the Praza das Praterias:
View attachment 174933
Thank you. I did wonder why they swung it after, and what you say makes perfect sense.Option 1 is the correct choice. The party that pays gets reserved seating - up front. There is no cost-sharing provision for multiple groups.
In my experience, there ARE instances of multiple groups collaborating and making a request under the auspices of one of the groups. The payment sharing would be an optional and private thing. The Cathedral does not participate in selling shares of the Botafumeiro ceremony.
If the date / Mass you are seeking is not available, then you will be able to see the Botafumeiro used for free - albeit without the preferred seating.
The schedule for when the Botafumeiro will be used is a VERY tightly held secret. I know the personnel involved. They are tighter lipped than a priest hearing confessions.
I think the only way you could accurately, but indirectly infer the Botafumeiro will be used in future, is if you make a request to pay for it, and they tell you that date is not available. I would infer that to mean that someone else has already booked the Botafumeiro for that Mass.
This information is NEVER made available in advance. Consider that the object if for worshippers to attend and participate in the Holy Mass - NOT to come to see the historical spectacle of the Botafumeiro ceremony. That is why the Botafumeiro ceremony was moved from before the Mass, to after the celebrant's final blessing upon the congregants.
When the Botafumeiro was used, as an incenser, before the Mass as is historically customary, there was simply too much disruption. This detracted from the solemnity and seriousness of the Holy Mass. So, years ago, the decision was taken to move the Botafumeiro ceremony to the end of the Mass.
Hope this helps,
Tom
Correct. As a volunteer who did the announcements in English prior to each mass, we were seated in reserved seats in the first row on each side of the aisle facing the altar.I was in Santiago a week ago and the pews in front of me (facing Santiago) and to the right were reserved for volunteers. I do not know about the other front pews.
I saw the Botafumeiro swing in more than one mass on one day last fall.There is more than one Mass everyday!
One trick to know when it will swing is to find a tour group sometime the last few days of walking (easy to spot with their matching day-glow colored day packs). Chat them up and ask which mass they are going to. Since tour groups usually pay to make sure their clients see the Bota swing, you can just piggyback on that.After my 2018 Camino I was there early for a mass where the botafumeiro was swung and informed by cathedral staff that those seats were being saved that those seats were being reserved for those who had sponsored the botafumeiro.
After my 2023 Camino I thought I had figured it out. If I could see that those seats were reserved, I would know that the botafumeiro had been sponsored and I could count on it being swung. I guess that the people who merited the reservation that mass had sone something else to earn it, because there was no swinging of the botafumeiro.
You are very welcome. Happy to help.Thank you. I did wonder why they swung it after, and what you say makes perfect sense.
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