Modern Spain

[Dannyhiker]

Friends:
I'm planning my third Camino. I've seen posts on gear, albergues, spiritual quests, almost all the possible Camino routes....

But I've never seen anyone talk about the cultural and political status of Spain.
This is not a test - honest.

But are pilgrims interested (or know) who the Prime minister is (Pedro Sanchez), the king (Felipe VI) - yep, they still have a king.

I'm interested if pilgrims prepare by learning something about modern Spain.

Thanks
Danny

 

[Turga]

I think there is actually quite a lot on this forum about Spanish culture, about food, drinks, literature, architecture (specifically churches) and spirituality. It may be spread across different threads and posts but it certainly is there.

Politics is another matter which, for good reasons, is not a subject to be discussed on this forum (refer to the forum rules ).

 

[William Marques]

I do not believe most pilgrims are interested in the constitution or politics of modern Spain. A few will be and they will also be interested in the history of the country.

I find the Camino a great time to get away from politics and the chatter of 24 hour news. Walk - Eat - Sleep. Doing this for a month really clears all the day to day buzz of current affairs from ones mind.

 

[SabsP]

Friends:
I'm planning my third Camino. I've seen posts on gear, albergues, spiritual quests, almost all the possible Camino routes....

But I've never seen anyone talk about the cultural and political status of Spain.
This is not a test - honest.

But are pilgrims interested (or know) who the Prime minister is (Pedro Sanchez), the king (Felipe VI) - yep, they still have a king.

I'm interested if pilgrims prepare by learning something about modern Spain.

Thanks
Danny

Of course I am interested .Very much. But I keep these discussions to the pm function here.
And on the Camino I will read whatever daily newspaper that is available in the bar.

 

[Turga]

I do not believe most pilgrims are interested in the constitution or politics of modern Spain. A few will be and they will also be interested in the history of the country.

Allow me to disagree. I have travelled in many countries around the globe and I would not like to go anywhere without knowing, apart from cultural aspects, important political realities, which, among other matters, could be crucial to not accidentally showing disrespect. But that is one thing –another thing is the sensible rule to not discuss it on this forum.

 

[SabsP]

Allow me to disagree. I have travelled in many countries around the globe and I would not like to go anywhere without knowing, apart from cultural aspects, important political realities, which, among other matters, could be crucial to not accidentally showing disrespect. But that is one thing –another thing is the sensible rule to not discuss it on this forum.

Triple like. As always you explained it better than I could.

 

[Deleted member 43780]

I can tell you all you want to know of such things.

Grew up in Seville and Ferrol in the late 40’s .... early 50’s. Live in Seville

Witnessed the change of Spain from Franco’s days to present.

Politics are not a good topic to discuss/debate on the open forum.

Few talk about how it was “then.”

Suggest you read book The Ghosts Of Spain.

Send me a message and I can tell you some things for you to think about Spain when walking your Camino.

 

[StephenChad]

I walked in October/November last year during the constitutional crisis; the exiles, the imprisonment, the support for Catalan independence in Navarra and Galicia but not in Castile, the fellow pilgrim, a Catalan speaker, who would struggle to read signs in Gallego in preference to the ones in Castilian ...

 

[bobdemer]

interesting,why are older Spaniards different physically ?

 

[SabsP]

interesting,why are older Spaniards different physically ?

I guess the experts will answer this better but a Spaniard told me that it has to do with better food and overall higher standards of living throughout the years.
Makes sense.
Google for Luis Buñuel and " Tierra sin pan ".

 

[Dorpie]

I can tell you all you want to know of such things.

Grew up in Seville and Ferrol in the late 40’s .... early 50’s. Live in Seville

Witnessed the change of Spain from Franco’s days to present.

Politics are not a good topic to discuss/debate on the open forum.

Few talk about how it was “then.”

Suggest you read book Ghosts Of Spain.

Send me a message and I can tell you some things for you to think about Spain when walking your Camino.

Thanks for the book tip Marty.

 

[Dorpie]

Friends:
I'm planning my third Camino. I've seen posts on gear, albergues, spiritual quests, almost all the possible Camino routes....

But I've never seen anyone talk about the cultural and political status of Spain.
This is not a test - honest.

But are pilgrims interested (or know) who the Prime minister is (Pedro Sanchez), the king (Felipe VI) - yep, they still have a king.

I'm interested if pilgrims prepare by learning something about modern Spain.

Thanks
Danny

Good question. Especially as one walks the Frances it's easy to be immersed in Caminoland and not even realise you're in Spain, let alone three very distinct areas within Spain. I'd like to say I was better informed than the average Brit about Spain (though perhaps that says more about our ignorance than my knowledge) but not sure I'd feel confident enough to get into an overly deep discussion about it even if this were the appropriate forum.

 

[Turga]

I understand very well the interest in the Spanish Civil War, which was a dramatic turning point with many nations involved. But Spain has a history that goes many centuries further back and which is not less interesting.

 

[William Garza]

Politics
Religion
Women

Avoid idle talk of these and people wont walk away thinking the worse.

 

[Turga]

I appreciate your sarcasm

 

[William Garza]

Ime with you about knowing political and social do and dont!
Example? I hug everyone after a period of getting to know them..some cultures i found out that -that is considered a PDA..a big whoops...so now i hold my squeezing tendencys to close friends only..sadly

Sometimes a friendly shoulder hug helps those who need to know they are valued and that they are not alone in the world.

 

[Canuck]

Here's a teaser. Tongue in cheek...

https://www.thelocal.es/20150127/the-five-strangest-things-about-spaniards

https://www.thelocal.es/20180301/things-foreigners-do-that-make-spaniards-feel-awkward

 

[SabsP]

Here's a teaser. Tongue in cheek...

https://www.thelocal.es/20150127/the-five-strangest-things-about-spaniards

https://www.thelocal.es/20180301/things-foreigners-do-that-make-spaniards-feel-awkward

True about not dining alone!!
Therefore my preference for pintxos bars where you feel more at ease when alone.

 

[MinaKamina]

Here is a thread about walking the Camino Francés in the seventies. Spain has come a long way from deep poverty and still has a way to go.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/walking-the-caminos-in-the-70s-or-80s.51565/

 

[Stivandrer]

I have avoided any Qs and references to the civil war, it is simply not prudent.
There has been no healing yet, they are still discussing whether or not to open graves and id victims.

https://www.thelocal.es/20180712/spain-plans-truth-commission-on-civil-war-and-francos-dictatorship

- so, be respectful, I would advise...
I did not come here in my youth, due to politics. Still Spain need some more time.....

 

[Pelegrin]

Don't forget the 17 regional governments (autonomias) The Xunta de Galicia rules on the Caminos in Galicia.

 

[William Garza]

Oooh Lort..
I will have broken pretty much every thing in that article.
Can Spain kick you out?

Except for
dress code
Drinking
Siestas
And working 25,500 hrs this year

I eat when i can
Shake hands..but dos kisses?..kidding,no prob there similar acculturation
Bare feet..not since i was a kid.


But yeah..the culture police will get me for SURE!

 

[Deleted member 39850]

I am very interested in current and ancient history -- I skipped Burgos Cathedral to go instead to the Museum of Human Evolution -- but I don't discuss my interests here (Victor Turner on Pilgrimage as a liminal state.... food culture, mono cropping and land use in Spain, the fact that the Frances lies on a Roman road that -- in spots -- precedes the Saint by at least 400 years..., architectures, hybrid cultures, language groups... ). I love all those things and they are my primary loves of "Spain" but I stick to forum rules here.
I teach about all the other stuff in my anth of medicine, anth of food, and community engagement courses. Loads of fun.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Here's a teaser. Tongue in cheek...

https://www.thelocal.es/20150127/the-five-strangest-things-about-spaniards

https://www.thelocal.es/20180301/things-foreigners-do-that-make-spaniards-feel-awkward

Thanks. That's the sort of things that could be discussed I think.

Maybe this isn't on topic but for some reason I thought about a big sign I encountered on the Camino Frances pointing the way of the CF in several languages (but NOT French.)

 

[Devereaux]

True about not dining alone!!
Therefore my preference for pintxos bars where you feel more at ease when alone.

I'm a newbie. What's a "pintxos bar"?

 

[Devereaux]

Spain has an absolutely incredible history. Just think, every major European (& other) culture came to a stop here (the end of the earth) and left some of itself behind: Cro-Magnon, Neanderthals, Homo Erectus, Homo sapien, Carthaginians, Phonecians, Celts, Romans, Visigoths...and the Moors. Then came a succession of kings, queens, republicans, nationals....it's an amazing amalgam of culture when you think of it.
Johan Von Goethe thought the Camino created "European Culture" because so many traversed the continent that became the major commercial/cultural link.
Absolutely fascinating to think of over 800,000 years of development.
Where else can you enjoy the fruits of such an amazing history?

 

[SabsP]

I'm a newbie. What's a "pintxos bar"?

A pintxo is the Basque version of a tapa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincho
With a stick or on a skewer.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

Spain has an absolutely incredible history. Just think, every major European (& other) culture came to a stop here (the end of the earth) and left some of itself behind: Cro-Magnon, Neanderthals, Homo Erectus, Homo sapien, Carthaginians, Phonecians, Celts, Romans, Visigoths...and the Moors. Then came a succession of kings, queens, republicans, nationals....it's an amazing amalgam of culture when you think of it.
Johan Von Goethe thought the Camino created "European Culture" because so many traversed the continent that became the major commercial/cultural link.
Absolutely fascinating to think of over 800,000 years of development.
Where else can you enjoy the fruits of such an amazing history?

Thank you @DevereUx, if we are broadening the historical parameters of what can be included perhaps we can add to the list the Borgias, who, contrary to common understanding originated in Valencia, Spain. Alongside the family members with murky reputations is St Francis Borgia.

 

[VNwalking]

Paying attention and trying to learn about current social or political issues and events isn't the same to me as "discussing politics", i.e. expressing or defending one's opinion and relating it mainly to the situation in one's own country but this is often what seems to happen - people don't seem to be able to make this distinction.

Hear hear...

 

[Margaret Butterworth]

Just a suggestion: the newspaper El Pais is available online in an English version.

 

[John Crawford Howell]

For Danny, this book: The New Spaniards, by John Hooper (second edition). I recommend reading this in conjunction with The Ghosts of Spain, mentioned by Marty Seville (above). My own history and experience in Spain (as reported elsewhere in the Ivar Forum) began in 1970 at a time when Franco was firmly in control of the country. In the ensuing almost 50 years of frequent travel to this amazing country I have witnessed many changes many of which are revealed in The New Spaniards. I hope this helps.

 

[VNwalking]

For Danny, this book: The New Spaniards, by John Hooper (second edition). I recommend reading this in conjunction with The Ghosts of Spain, mentioned by Marty Seville (above). My own history and experience in Spain (as reported elsewhere in the Ivar Forum) began in 1970 at a time when Franco was firmly in control of the country. In the ensuing almost 50 years of frequent travel to this amazing country I have witnessed many changes many of which are revealed in The New Spaniards.

There is a recent thread about the recent events in this realm here.

 

[Dannyhiker]

Just a suggestion: the newspaper El Pais is available online in an English version.

Thank you. Now this was a good, practical suggestion.

 

[Dannyhiker]

I can tell you all you want to know of such things.

Grew up in Seville and Ferrol in the late 40’s .... early 50’s. Live in Seville

Witnessed the change of Spain from Franco’s days to present.

Politics are not a good topic to discuss/debate on the open forum.

Few talk about how it was “then.”

Suggest you read book Ghosts Of Spain.

Send me a message and I can tell you some things for you to think about Spain when walking your Camino.

Thanks... I was more interested in what pilgrims were doing now. I can read a newspaper to get the gist of the current political situation.

 

[Sandra Riordan]

I can tell you all you want to know of such things.

Grew up in Seville and Ferrol in the late 40’s .... early 50’s. Live in Seville

Witnessed the change of Spain from Franco’s days to present.

Politics are not a good topic to discuss/debate on the open forum.

Few talk about how it was “then.”

Suggest you read book Ghosts Of Spain.

Send me a message and I can tell you some things for you to think about Spain when walking your Camino.

Thank you will get the book

 

[Walking Lover]

Friends:
I'm planning my third Camino. I've seen posts on gear, albergues, spiritual quests, almost all the possible Camino routes....

But I've never seen anyone talk about the cultural and political status of Spain.
This is not a test - honest.

But are pilgrims interested (or know) who the Prime minister is (Pedro Sanchez), the king (Felipe VI) - yep, they still have a king.

I'm interested if pilgrims prepare by learning something about modern Spain.

Thanks
Danny

I don't. I am completely focused on the walk. I love the escape from it all.

 

[Pelegrin]

Spain has an absolutely incredible history. Just think, every major European (& other) culture came to a stop here (the end of the earth) and left some of itself behind: Cro-Magnon, Neanderthals, Homo Erectus, Homo sapien, Carthaginians, Phonecians, Celts, Romans, Visigoths...and the Moors. Then came a succession of kings, queens, republicans, nationals....it's an amazing amalgam of culture when you think of it.
Johan Von Goethe thought the Camino created "European Culture" because so many traversed the continent that became the major commercial/cultural link.
Absolutely fascinating to think of over 800,000 years of development.
Where else can you enjoy the fruits of such an amazing history?

The Visigoths … and the always forgotten Suabians in Galicia (a Kingdom that lasted 180 years with capital in Braga)
I sent my salliva for a DNA analysis and to my surprise the result was Germanic origin in the mother line (mitocondrial).
My mother is from a village that is located 10 kms from Guitiriz, near C. Norte, that was founded by the Suabians in VI century for its medicin Waters.
If that is true ( I mean my Germanic matrilineal origin) I also know that my ancestors have been living in that area at leats since VI century.

 

[Turga]

Paying attention and trying to learn about current social or political issues and events isn't the same to me as "discussing politics", i.e. expressing or defending one's opinion and relating it mainly to the situation in one's own country but this is often what seems to happen - people don't seem to be able to make this distinction.

I totally agree -but then it sometimes is a difficult distinction to make and you are easily carried away which is why I think the general rule makes sense.

 

[Turga]

Spain has an absolutely incredible history. Just think, every major European (& other) culture came to a stop here (the end of the earth) and left some of itself behind: Cro-Magnon, Neanderthals, Homo Erectus, Homo sapien, Carthaginians, Phonecians, Celts, Romans, Visigoths...and the Moors. Then came a succession of kings, queens, republicans, nationals....it's an amazing amalgam of culture when you think of it.
Johan Von Goethe thought the Camino created "European Culture" because so many traversed the continent that became the major commercial/cultural link.
Absolutely fascinating to think of over 800,000 years of development.
Where else can you enjoy the fruits of such an amazing history?

Yes, it is indeed fascinating. But Spain has another kind of history as well. It is no coincidence that Spanish is spoken in many countries around the world. And if I'm pointing a finger here it is one that is also pointing back on most of ourselves.

 

[november_moon]

Yes, in the Americas, we have a very complicated history with Spain.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

As a descendant of Alfonso II, "The Chaste," and Alfonso VI, "The Valiant," I try to stay abreast of modern Spanish history...

 

[Devereaux]

The Visigoths … and the always forgotten Suabians in Galicia (a Kingdom that lasted 180 years with capital in Braga)
I sent my salliva for a DNA analysis and to my surprise the result was Germanic origin in the mother line (mitocondrial).
My mother is from a village that is located 10 kms from Guitiriz, near C. Norte, that was founded by the Suabians in VI century for its medicin Waters.
If that is true ( I mean my Germanic matrilineal origin) I also know that my ancestors have been living in that area at leats since VI century.

Ahh...the Subanians! Sorry, I had grouped them in with the various incarnations of Celts, since the "Celts", "Germanic Tribes" and "Balts" were somewhat indistinguishable (all then present in modern day Germany) until approximately the first half of the first millennium B.C. by which time at least some appear to already be in Iberia. The beauty of all the "waves of culture" coming to a stop on the Iberian Penninsula is that the best bits of each seem to have remained, creating what we now experience as a vibrant, deep and rich "Spanish" culture. BUT...where did all that great red wine come from?

 

[Pelegrin]

I think that the right name in English is Swabians a Germanic tribe. There is a region in SW Germany called Swaben. They let a group of Britons that escaped from the AngloSaxons in Britain settle in North Galicia where they helped them to control the territory. They founded the Briton Church in what is now Mondoñedo. A Briton bishop called Maeloc went to a Council in Braga where was declared heresy the Priscilian dogma.
A very unknown but interesting episode.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Council in Braga where was declared heresy the Priscilian dogma.

Free Kindle!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004MDLPMS/?tag=casaivar02-20

 

[Liz Drew]

Friends:
I'm planning my third Camino. I've seen posts on gear, albergues, spiritual quests, almost all the possible Camino routes....

But I've never seen anyone talk about the cultural and political status of Spain.
This is not a test - honest.

But are pilgrims interested (or know) who the Prime minister is (Pedro Sanchez), the king (Felipe VI) - yep, they still have a king.

I'm interested if pilgrims prepare by learning something about modern Spain.

Thanks
Danny

Of course Danny, though I can only speak for myself. I am just back from my 2nd Came no and planning my 3rd, I had a wonderful Spaniard sh teacher for a year before I left and she delved onto Spanish culture and the current political climate. I am very thankful for that. Having just walked the Via de la Plata I have read a brief history and f the Roman Empire and have a hunger for more

 

[Former member 2537]

Concerning more recent Spanish history and the Camino I offer this for consideration:
https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/e/9781317485025

Chapter 2 especially - abstract available.

 

[Liz Drew]

Many thanks.

 

[yaying]

PDA

and this will end you up in jail doing it here in Qatar.