Lisbon to Santiago

[Jose Luis Perdomo]

I would like to walk from Lisbon to Santiago. this fall However, the descriptions and information I have found about the Lisbon to Spain border segment are discouraging both in terms of beauty of the Camino and available resources such as places to stay and eat.

Has anyone walked this segment recently and could you offer some fresh perspectives?

Thanks,

 

[Coleen Clark]

Yeah. What he said.

 

[Magwood]

I walked in 2014. I think there are a few more albergues now. I posted to my blog every day from the camino with descriptions of the landscape and accommodation and lots of photos. You are welcome to take a look...
https://magwood.me/my-caminos/camino-portuguese/

 

[Jose Luis Perdomo]

I walked in 2014. I think there are a few more albergues now. I posted to my blog every day from the camino with descriptions of the landscape and accommodation and lots of photos. You are welcome to take a look...
https://magwood.me/my-caminos/camino-portuguese/

Thank you very much. I will take a look.

 

[frida1]

I walked this in 2016. I started in Santarem, 2 days walk both of Lisbon. There are more albergues all the time. If you want to walk the entire way-taxis, bus or train are an option-you should be prepared for an occasional 20 mile day. It's not wall to wall with cafes but I had no problems finding food and accommodation. It's very different from the Frances, but enjoyed it very much.

 

[Former member 35551]

Sept 2016 - Started in Lisbon - Central Route. My comments are for the Lisbon to Porto section only.

• Very, very hot
• Practically all of it is on roads - asphalt or stone, which made it feel even hotter. Many sections without any shoulders.
• Drivers. I found Portuguese to be lovely, caring, hospitable people. Except when driving. I was hit twice. Luckily, in those instances they weren't going fast and once it was really my trekking poles getting hit, which I happened to be holding rather than using. Neither stopped.
• Dogs. There are loose dogs on the Le Puy and Frances but not to the same extent and these were much more aggressive. I had several encounters with packs of 4-6 dogs. I think the issue with drivers and dogs is due to a lack of familiarity with pilgrims trudging thru their territory.
• A lot of walking thru industrial sections.
• Very few pilgrims. Running into 2 or 3 was a big day. I met several people who had started in Lisbon but because of the heat, roads, industrial had decided to skip ahead, taking a taxi/train to Coimbra or Porto.
• I did not think there was any issue with finding accommodations or places to eat. I've been on trails (non-camino) where this was an issue. And this wasn't bad at all. As long as you are not limiting yourself to albergues. Plenty of hotels. I was more vigilant in checking my options for the next day, which I didn't do on the Frances and did on limited sections on Le Puy.
• Food is much cheaper. Cheaper than even Spain. Hotels I think are about the same but wide disparity in quality at the same price. Many give pilgrim discounts.

Not my favorite but, overall, I'm glad I did it because it was so different from Frances and Le Puy. If interested, here's the obligatory blog.

 

[HeidiL]

I've been walking Lisbon - Porto piecemeal over the last couple of years and agree about the dogs. They do seem more agressive than the dogs on the Francés.

But the people are lovely and helpful, more willing to try to understand me when I try to speak Portuñol (I speak Spanish and try to change the words I remember in Porguguese plus reduce my speed) or English, and the landscapes are lovely. And mostly flat, a big plus for my wonky knee.

 

[frida1]

Re O Peracha's comments. It just goes to show how different individual experiences can be.

I started on Sept. 10 from Santarem. Yes, it was warm, but not enough that I thought about or would think to mention it. I was sweaty by the end of the day, but hiking is effortful!
My recollection is that a substantial amount is on a paved surface. After the Frances, I was ready for that with good arch support and cushy shoes. Often it is on a very local road with little or no traffic. Some short sections are on busy roads for a few kilometers. Not my favorite parts, but I didn't experience it as a danger. As a road cyclist, I'm on a lot of busy roads. It's probably a perception based on experience.
There are a lot of barking dogs, but every one I saw was fenced.
There are fewer pilgrims, but I saw some every day. Dinner was sometimes a lone affair and sometimes with others, they same with walking.
I don't remember industrial sections at all (but I hear that the first 2 days out of Lisbon are through industrial areas).
Food is cheaper than on the Frances, and I think more varied and better.
Portuguese people are exceptionally nice and friendly!

 

[Texas Walker]

The Portuguese drivers are scary. They weren't so much reckless as forced to share a road with no shoulders with us. And they were fast. Almost missed the albergue in Grijo because the step is right on the street and vehicles were passing.

(snip)
There are a lot of barking dogs, but every one I saw was fenced.
There were some unfenced dogs. One pack, in a tiny village, that was kind of following us in an unfriendly way so we pulled my hiking poles out and used them to persuade the dogs to stay back.

(snip)
I don't remember industrial sections at all (but I hear that the first 2 days out of Lisbon are through industrial areas).
The outskirts of Lisbon go on for quite a ways. We took an extra day when we arrived to recover from the overnight flight and see the city a little. We walked almost all the way to the end of the city while trying to find the Tile Museum. (City metro took us much of the way to museum, but there was a mile or three to walk. Lady at metro station was flabbergasted that we were going to walk from the station to the museum.) The following day, bright and early, we caught the bus to about where we'd walked the previous day (accidentally got off one stop to early for edge-of-town) and walked thru the lovely park and across country. There was mostly levee walking through the bottomlands, and the route seemed to me like it actively avoided villages. (Opposite, really, from our experience of the Frances.) I suspect that had I been more alert I could have found food places more easily.

Food is cheaper than on the Frances, and I think more varied and better.

Maybe not cheaper--depends really on where you end up eating. Food was good, though.

Portuguese people are exceptionally nice and friendly!

Hear, hear!

 

[frida1]

Texas Walker: Yes, I remember that Grijo albergue! It was oddly close to the road. It was a really nice, austere albergue and close to an interesting monastery though.

 

[LesBrass]

Gosh and Darn it!

I can usually only walk an autumn camino due to work commitments, but last year I managed to get 4 weeks in the diary from mid April to Mid May 2018. I dream of seeing all the spring flowers and fields of poppies or cornflowers or daisies.

I adore portugal and Lisbon and felt that walking from Lisbon to Santiago would be the right walk for me but I keep reading accounts of the roads and it worries me.

I have mild scoliosis (but it's getting more noticable as I get older) and I find road walking difficult. It's not the hard surface, but the cadence of the road that plays havoc... smaller country roads can often be worse. After just a kilometre or two my feet, leg and back start to complain and I know I have to get off the road.

Would CP folks agree that the accounts a fair assessment? Would I be walking on more roads than say the CF or the VdlP? Is it predominatlely the early days that are roads or generally along the entire route?

 

[Kiwi rambler]

I would like to walk from Lisbon to Santiago. this fall However, the descriptions and information I have found about the Lisbon to Spain border segment are discouraging both in terms of beauty of the Camino and available resources such as places to stay and eat.

Has anyone walked this segment recently and could you offer some fresh perspectives?

Thanks,

I walked from Porto to Santiago three years ago. It was lovely and the albergues were really good. On the occasions you have to walk alongside a road it can feel quite dangerous but most of the time it's off-road.

 

[Former member 35551]

I'd just reiterate what I said earlier that practically all of Lisbon to Porto (central route) is on roads. The two sections Lisbon to Porto and Porto to Santiago are very different. The latter is very similar to CF. You're only in Portugal for 3 or 4 days before you're in Spain. Lisbon to Porto has even fewer pilgrims and a unique flavor all it's own.

 

[LesBrass]

I'd just reiterate what I said earlier that practically all of Lisbon to Porto (central route) is on roads. The two sections Lisbon to Porto and Porto to Santiago are very different. The latter is very similar to CF. You're only in Portugal for 3 or 4 days before you're in Spain. Lisbon to Porto has even fewer pilgrims and a unique flavor all it's own.

@O Peracha many thanks for this. It does back up what I keep reading and it's a worry. My husband would really like to walk from Porto with me one day so maybe I'll just put this on the back-burner for now? I have a year to decide and I do love Portugal but the road walking is an issue for me

 

[peregrina2000]

I know this debate has been going on for a long time, and I am hoping to get some official input from the people who mark the way to give more specific information. There is a lot of asphalt on the Caminho before Porto, no doubt about it. But I think to say that it is "practically all" asphalt is an overstatement. I haven't walked from Lisbon since 2008 and I know there is less asphalt now than there was then. I have also been able to help out with the Via Lusitana with marking arrows on occasions over the years since then and I have been nailing arrows onto eucalyptus trees, which are definitely not growing on pavement.

There is a lot of asphalt, true enough. Via Lusitana and others are working to find more off-road options. In fact, once you get past Azambuja, I would bet there is less than a majority of the kms on a hard surface. I'm thinking about the long walk into Santarem, the path into Azinhaga, the two different eucalyptus forests, the long off road stretch after Alvorge, the route from Rabacal up along the ridge, etc. I am not trying to change anyone's decision to walk or not to walk, but just to point out that people's impressions on this issue vary and are no doubt influenced by rain, heat, physical condition, etc.

Take a look at Kimmo's recent comment, now on day 6.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/day-1-lisbon-and-onwards.47028/#post-502376

Bom caminho to all!

 

[Former member 35551]

I'm also not trying to convince someone to either do a certain camino or not but giving you my impression from about 7 months ago. I found the route I did to be unique and was glad that I did it. But mostly all of it on roads. I used the online CSG guide from 2009. There was very little change. The few changes were along the lines of moving the trail from a major highway to a smaller road. Less traffic but still a road. The comment that I read and heard was that Via Lusitania does not have the resources and/or there aren't viable alternatives to move the path off the roads. Finally, I'll point out that . . .

• As time passes by, impressions and memories of a pilgrimage get fonder and rosier.
• Based on people I have spoken with and based on comments here, it does seem like people who initially say they did a certain camino, didn't actually walk the whole way. That they took a taxi, bus, etc. to skip the "bad" parts. Well, naturally if you skip the roads, your impression on the road walking is going to be very different.

 

[JLuis]

I will not start an argument here.
Via Lusitana has all the resources to move the path to wherever it would be better. I don't know where do you read or who told you different. The 'no viable alternatives' is correct, though.
As for the roads...
I didn't (yet) measure km by km the different ground covers on the CP. But I am sure there is less paved road on the CP than on the Camino del Norte.
From Lisboa to Coimbra (around 200km) there is as much roads as there are gravel paths, maybe a bit more on the path side. From Coimbra to Porto (100km) there is a lot of paved roas, I would say about two thirds paved, one third on dirt paths.
I read a lot about the 'industrial outskirts of Lisbon'. Well, you start at the Cathedral and walk about 9km in town. Old churches, convents, palaces. Old and new houses. Very very few industries still running. Then you reach Parque das Nações, you walk on a new development, along the river, a place where the Lisboetas come to the park to walk and run etc. Some of it paved, yes, but no industries in sight. Then there is about a 2 kms on wood planks and a gravel path. Then 2km along a paved road, large shoulder. You cross the river Trancão and start walking along it for about 8km. Nothing paved on sight. Too much mud with rain, too much dust in summer. You will probably see horses, cows, a few sheep maybe. Lucky pilgrims spot the big turtle sometimes. No industries here. Then there you have the 1,5 last kms on paved road, a couple of big wharehouses, a country road with grass by it's side, and you are at Alpriate, 20km from the Cathedral. How many industries have you seen?
If you start a Camino thinking about "Paved Road Everywhere", you walk 5km on paved road and think "yuks, all paved road on this Caminho", you walk 10kms on a gravel path and don't even notice it.

 

[LesBrass]

Many many thanks for these insights... I really appreciate the details in the replies. I can relate to things changing... Some of the blogs I've read are 5+ years old now, so it is entirely possible that things are changing as the route becomes more popular?

I really dont mind walking on sidewalks/pavements and hard surfaces don't bother my feet like it does others... It is just the cadence that causes me problems.

And @JLuis I 100% agree about the walk out of Lisbon to Parque des
Nações... Its a lovely lovely place to walk. Again i dont mind the changing landscapes, industrial or bucolic... Its all part of the experience no matter which camino you're walking.

I starting thinking about this route after reading @Magwood 's blog... She talked of poppy fields as red as a poppy field could be... And that has stayed with me. (@peregrina2000 your Levante blog has had the same effect). Added to this the route starts in Lisbon which has to be one of the greatest cities in the world... And its in Portugal which has some of the friendliest folks around... The CP seems like a perfect walk for me... Except for these niggles about roads (and cadences).

I'm heartened by the number of folks posting their accounts from Lisbon at the moment... I have a year so I guess i should just watch and learn... I was really nervous about the VdlP and those fears were unfounded.

I really do appreciate all the advice... I'll keep watching. Many thanks again.

 

[frida1]

I walked and enjoyed the Portuguese camino from Santarem to Santiago. I used the central route except for one day leaving Porto, where I took the coastal route to Vila do Conde and was on boardwalk.

I think much of the coastal way from Porto is on boardwalk, so might be an alternative.

After looking at these new posts, I went to the Brierley guide for 2016. He is not infallible, but I think pretty accurate in his designation of percentage of road types. From Santarem, accordingly to Brierley, on the 556 kilometer central route, there is:
173 kilometer natural path or gravel (31%)
326 kilometer of secondary or rural road, asphalt (59%)
56 kilometer of main road (10%)

If the concern is traffic, most of the secondary road is very quiet, without much or any road traffic. On the other hand, if the concern is hard surface, about 70% is on some sort of hard surface. If that's a big problem, then another walk might be better. In 3 weeks I'm leaving for the Arles Way, I'll let you know how that compares!

 

[LesBrass]

If the concern is traffic, most of the secondary road is very quiet, without much or any road traffic. On the other hand, if the concern is hard surface, about 70% is on some sort of hard surface. If that's a big problem, then another walk might be better. In 3 weeks I'm leaving for the Arles Way, I'll let you know how that compares!

Many thanks for this... that's an interesting breakdown. I don't mind the hard surfaces... but I do dislike the cadence of the road. I'm ok if I can walk on the 'wrong' side with my right leg on the down slope of the cadence... but not the other way around... or I'm happy a little away from the edge.

The Arles is another walk on my wish list... which is a very long list now!

 

[Jose Luis Perdomo]

Sept 2016 - Started in Lisbon - Central Route. My comments are for the Lisbon to Porto section only.

• Very, very hot
• Practically all of it is on roads - asphalt or stone, which made it feel even hotter. Many sections without any shoulders.
• Drivers. I found Portuguese to be lovely, caring, hospitable people. Except when driving. I was hit twice. Luckily, in those instances they weren't going fast and once it was really my trekking poles getting hit, which I happened to be holding rather than using. Neither stopped.
• Dogs. There are loose dogs on the Le Puy and Frances but not to the same extent and these were much more aggressive. I had several encounters with packs of 4-6 dogs. I think the issue with drivers and dogs is due to a lack of familiarity with pilgrims trudging thru their territory.
• A lot of walking thru industrial sections.
• Very few pilgrims. Running into 2 or 3 was a big day. I met several people who had started in Lisbon but because of the heat, roads, industrial had decided to skip ahead, taking a taxi/train to Coimbra or Porto.
• I did not think there was any issue with finding accommodations or places to eat. I've been on trails (non-camino) where this was an issue. And this wasn't bad at all. As long as you are not limiting yourself to albergues. Plenty of hotels. I was more vigilant in checking my options for the next day, which I didn't do on the Frances and did on limited sections on Le Puy.
• Food is much cheaper. Cheaper than even Spain. Hotels I think are about the same but wide disparity in quality at the same price. Many give pilgrim discounts.

Not my favorite but, overall, I'm glad I did it because it was so different from Frances and Le Puy. If interested, here's the obligatory blog.

thank you very much

 

[Jose Luis Perdomo]

Many thanks for this... that's an interesting breakdown. I don't mind the hard surfaces... but I do dislike the cadence of the road. I'm ok if I can walk on the 'wrong' side with my right leg on the down slope of the cadence... but not the other way around... or I'm happy a little away from the edge.

The Arles is another walk on my wish list... which is a very long list now!

thanks

 

[Levi]

I've been walking from Lisbon over the past week or so. Particularly before Santerem I thought there was a lot of road walking - some of it, frankly, on such narrow busy roads that I felt like crying when I saw the yellow arrows pointing that way! After Tomar the walk is beautiful....but by the time I reached Coimbra I was pretty shattered....

So today I've taken the train to Porto and I'm having a 'holiday' here until Wednesday when I'll start walking again...

 

[Mike Savage]

I've been walking from Lisbon over the past week or so. Particularly before Santerem I thought there was a lot of road walking - some of it, frankly, on such narrow busy roads that I felt like crying when I saw the yellow arrows pointing that way! After Tomar the walk is beautiful....but by the time I reached Coimbra I was pretty shattered....

So today I've taken the train to Porto and I'm having a 'holiday' here until Wednesday when I'll start walking again...

Levi, enjoy Porto it is a beautiful city!

Bom Caminho!

 

[LesBrass]

I've been walking from Lisbon over the past week or so. Particularly before Santerem I thought there was a lot of road walking - some of it, frankly, on such narrow busy roads that I felt like crying when I saw the yellow arrows pointing that way! After Tomar the walk is beautiful....but by the time I reached Coimbra I was pretty shattered....

So today I've taken the train to Porto and I'm having a 'holiday' here until Wednesday when I'll start walking again...

Levi - I'm so sorry to hear of your expereinces... I know that you're a hardy traveller! I hope that the walk from Porto brings you more joy! I'm following your progress and willing you on from the wings.

 

[Levi]

Thanks guys! Maybe this just isn't the Camino for me. But I'm optimistic about Porto to Santiago...
Best wishes all!!

 

[Jose Luis Perdomo]

I've been walking from Lisbon over the past week or so. Particularly before Santerem I thought there was a lot of road walking - some of it, frankly, on such narrow busy roads that I felt like crying when I saw the yellow arrows pointing that way! After Tomar the walk is beautiful....but by the time I reached Coimbra I was pretty shattered....

So today I've taken the train to Porto and I'm having a 'holiday' here until Wednesday when I'll start walking again...

Sorry the experience was not great. I have settled on the CAmino del Norte starting in September. Buen camino