Learning Spanish - Methods, resources, experiences, etc.

[Lhollo]

… I flopped on the streets...the Spaniards speak so fast and they have some dialectics that only a brilliant ear can understand ..i.e.. ( Barcelona ). This is not meant to be rude..but man do they ever speak so fast....I applaud your efforts....carry on.

Just to add my voice to those who also flop on the streets. It’s immensely frustrating!

I have trouble formulating complex constructions on the run, such as "If they were planning to leave tomorrow, would they have already packed their bags?"

Yes, this is exactly the type of sentence that makes me flop on the streets, although also at home! Subjunctive plus conditional… the only thing worse would be if you threw in an abstract ‘there’ along the way.

I did struggle with vosotros when I was in Spain, because I’ve learnt Castillian Spanish but usually only talk as one person addressing another individual person informally. Suddenly speaking on behalf of myself and my partner (nosotros) to two lovely Spanish pilgrims (vosotros) blew my little head for a while Navigating things like tripe on menus with speedy waiting staff hanging about was also an unexpected experience!

 

[Esperanza]

@Faye Walker

I can’t help it either … … professional linguist here … but “diacritic” is the term for the whole group of marks placed above and below and sometimes through letters to indicate a difference in pronunciation, of which accent marks are only one type. Other examples are the tilde, the umlaut (used in German), the háček (Slavic languages), and many more which are all called diacritics.

The technical term for the type of accent mark used in Spanish is acute accent and the ones that go the other direction, used in French for example, are grave accents. Calling them “accent marks” has always been perfectly fine in my professional research papers.

 

[VNwalking]

Oh! Here's something interesting.

This is much more intetesting and uplifting than the news in Spanish! Thanks @vjpdx !

 

[David with new Kit!]

Well, my Spanish teacher (Galicia) advised me to keep it simply and avoid the subjunctive etc until I get to grips with the basics.

Even the future, I was advised to use 'me voy a + infinitive to avoid tongue twisters. But, the future conjugation is quite easy anyway.

I'm in Spain now and I find that keeping it simple and speaking slowly to avoid using the wrong verb is much appreciated.

My Spanish teacher was right all along

 

[linkster]

FYI, I just posted a resource to add a SpanishDict menu item to the Chrome Context Menu (right click) . It just takes the selected text and opens a new tab in spanishdict.com. I find it a quick way to look up verb conjugations and pronunciations.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/resources/chrome-extension-spanishdict.806/

 

[HaveringRob]

I didn't start at the beginner level, so I'm afraid that I can't answer your questions.
I will say that speaking Spanish with a native Spanish speaker every day is very helpful, and I feel like my Spanish has improved a lot.
Yes, the teachers are based in South America, so the accent is different, and there is no vosotros, but the basics are the same.
For me the key thing was trying out several teachers before I found a couple that I "clicked" with.
In addition to my baselang lessons I like to listen to Spanish learning podcasts while I'm out walking.

which podcasts do you like?

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

We learned Spanish in grade school 6-8 grade. Our teacher taught Castilian. It’s where I learned I couldn’t roll R’s. I don’t mind vostotros, maybe it’s four years of Latin but I like declining verbs. Before I walked I did Rosetta Stone and also took some classes at a junior college—where I still couldn’t roll R’s and in addition my instructor was from South America and really didn’t want me to learn the Spanish of Spain. We had several different south and Central American speakers in lab. I have a dead ear for language accents and listening via headphones didn’t help, nor did hearing different speakers say the word differently.

. I asked her “how am I supposed to pronounce “ll”, some of them it sounds like l and y, some like l, some like y…I’m so confused how I’m supposed to say “ll”. I wanted to watch her lips.

She replied “it’s easy, just say it like the animal” (meaning llama, but without her saying it ). Still not sure if those are yamas, lyamas, or lamas but thankfully I didn’t need to use the word on the Camino.

 

[trecile]

She replied “it’s easy, just say it like the animal” (meaning llama, but without her saying it ). Still not sure if those are yamas, lyamas, or lamas but thankfully I didn’t need to use the word on the Camino.

Or in Argentina shama!

 

[trecile]

which podcasts do you like?

There are many that I like. Lately, I've been listening to StoryLearning Spanish. It's short daily episodes of a story narrated by three different characters with accents from different countries. You can get a free version, or pay a small monthly fee through Patreon to get it without an intro and outro for each episode, and the ability to download transcripts, etc. (the transcript for each episode is on the podcast app though)

Other good podcasts are Coffee Break Spanish, Notes in Spanish, and Unlimited Spanish.

Babbel also produced a story based podcast called Palabras Bravas, and they have others that are at a beginner level.

Learn a new language with Babbel podcasts

Listen along as experts reveal language secrets and give you an inside look at local culture. Hit play and start your learning journey with the Babbel podcast!

www.babbel.com

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Well, my Spanish teacher (Galicia) advised me to keep it simply and avoid the subjunctive etc until I get to grips with the basics.

Even the future, I was advised to use 'me voy a + infinitive to avoid tongue twisters. But, the future conjugation is quite easy anyway.

I'm in Spain now and I find that keeping it simple and speaking slowly to avoid using the wrong verb is much appreciated.

My Spanish teacher was right all along

I’m new to this, and hadn’t heard of that. I just looked it up and found in listed on this page as a Spanish “hack!” Wonderful!

DON'T Learn the Future Tense: Use This Spanish Hack Instead

Many useful phrases in Spanish could be formed by combining two verbs. With this lesson, you will learn how to express future events using the verb "voy a."

baselang.com

 

[jungleboy]

For those who have a reasonable grasp of Spanish already (or keen beginners!), @Wendy Werneth did an interview in Spanish this week with a popular YouTube channel, El Jardín de Martín, talking about language learning, methods etc.

 

[linkster]

+1 for Spanglish hacks. A couple of hacks for the past.

1) The present perfect indicative can simplify the conjugation a bit and accomplishes a lot. You just have to learn how to form the past participle of the verb. Ar verbs end in ado, er and ir verbs end in ido. There are a few irregular past participles worth memorizing (decir = dicho, hacer = hecho, ver = visto).

Present Perfect Indicative Formula
present indicative of haber + past participle of another verb

He comido pulpo. I have eaten octopus.

2) Acabar de + [infinitive form of a verb] ... I have just done ...

Acabo de comer pulpo. I have just eaten octopus.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Just starting to try to understand the differences between ser and estar. Oh My! How am I ever going to remember all that?

 

[trecile]

Just starting to try to understand the differences between ser and estar. Oh My! How am I ever going to remember all that?

I guess that I shouldn't mention por and para.

 

[vjpdx]

Just starting to try to understand the differences between ser and estar. Oh My! How am I ever going to remember all that?

Ser is for things that are fixed, and for professions... Soy jubilada, soy estadounidense, soy morena, soy de Detroit, era bibliotecaria.
Estar is for things that change like locations or states of being... Estoy en Portland, estoy aprendiendo el español, estoy cansada.

Here's an example that helped me understand these:
Estas borracho - you're drunk
Eres borracho - you are a drunk

you'll get there!

 

[witsendwv]

Just starting to try to understand the differences between ser and estar. Oh My! How am I ever going to remember all that?

Can we have a thread where we practice speaking (typing) Spanish (Castellano)? I'd participate!!

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Here's an example that helped me understand these:
Estas borracho - you're drunk
Eres borracho - you are a drunk

you'll get there!

That’s a really helpful example, and actually easy to remember. When I tried to research it on the Internet I got these articles that went on several pages. I’m sure they explained it thoroughly, but I don’t think that’s how you learn a language.

 

[C clearly]

Today I was surprised to find my husband watching some YouTube videos in Spanish, although with captions. (He has next to zero interest in the Camino or Spain). This YouTube channel has many ethnographic documentaries by Eugenio Monesma Moliner, which describe lost Spanish crafts or trades - ranging from olive oil production to rope making. They are very interesting and provide both insight into the traditional practices and good Spanish listening practice.

 

[trecile]

For those who have a reasonable grasp of Spanish already (or keen beginners!), @Wendy Werneth did an interview in Spanish this week with a popular YouTube channel, El Jardín de Martín, talking about language learning, methods etc.

I only watched the first 10 minutes or so of the video (I'll try to watch the rest later!) but I know exactly how Wendy felt to be in a Spanish only class after having studied the language for several years in college. I took two years of Spanish in a community college, then almost two years after I completed those courses I started in upper division university courses, with my first class on my 60th birthday! There I was, amidst these 20 year olds, some of whom were native Spanish speakers! I stuck it out, and completed several courses at the university, but ultimately decided that it wasn't worth the price that I was paying. I don't care about being able to write a paper in Spanish examining the symbolism in Oda al aire. I just want to be able to talk to people!

 

[vjpdx]

I just want to be able to talk to people!

And I bet you can - you're certainly working hard on it!

Here's something that makes me optimistic. A friend is up here (in Oregon) from Mexico. The last time I saw her, 5 years ago, we talked in Spanish - and my Spanish was really awful (it's now just awful - I'm making progress). Imagine my surprise when I get together with her and she leads with English. There was a little Spanglish too but she spoke mostly English. Her vocab is limited, she has an accent, so in those terms, she's just like me (but not, obviously)! I've had to say, can I please practice my Spanish with you, because her English is good and she wants to use it.

She has done everything she can to immerse herself - and it's really paying off. I am so proud of her. (And I can't wait to put myself into immersion situations too)

 

[Former member 49149]

When I began to learn Castellano, I used 2 books every day. i used one to read aloud for ten minutes. The other was my dictionary. I loved opening it and following threads from those words that had lots of sub sections. VNwalking's question above set me thinking about idioms. Here is one, which is the title of a book I read, one of many - that (reading) is really the basis of my store of language, vocabulary and structure in context. Of course, maintaining the reading element is key, but so is having the opportunity to speak with those whose first language it is.
Busqué este ejemplar por internet...

CVC. Refranero Multilingüe. Ficha: De perdidos, al río.

Ficha del Refranero multilingüe del Centro Virtual Cervantes, proyecto que recoge refranes y frases proverbiales en español con sus equivalentes en alemán, catalán, francés, gallego, griego antiguo, griego moderno, inglés, italiano, portugués y vasco.

cvc.cervantes.es

 

[VNwalking]

Oh! Gracias, @kirkie!
Es maravilloso.

 

[WGroleau]

I agree with that point - both grammar and exposure are needed. Too often I hear people disparaging their school language experience with the idea that somehow those grammar classes are useless. They aren't useless - they are just incomplete.

On the other hand, if you are able to communicate well, then you have all the grammar you really need. How well did you speak your native language before you want to school? There are methods that minimize grammar instruction while producing proficient communicators i a short time. Yet many teachers still deny the evidence and continue the ineffective methods.

 

[MariaSP]

Ser is for things that are fixed, and for professions... Soy jubilada, soy estadounidense, soy morena, soy de Detroit, era bibliotecaria.
Estar is for things that change like locations or states of being... Estoy en Portland, estoy aprendiendo el español, estoy cansada.

Here's an example that helped me understand these:
Estas borracho - you're drunk
Eres borracho - you are a drunk

you'll get there!

Locations don't always change, and you still use 'estar'.
Santiago está en Galicia - Santiago is in Galicia

Oh, and you missed 'un' in your second example:
Eres un borracho

 

[MariaSP]

I’m new to this, and hadn’t heard of that. I just looked it up and found in listed on this page as a Spanish “hack!” Wonderful!

DON'T Learn the Future Tense: Use This Spanish Hack Instead

Many useful phrases in Spanish could be formed by combining two verbs. With this lesson, you will learn how to express future events using the verb "voy a."

baselang.com

To be honest, that is not really a hack, but the proper way to talk about your future plans.
The future tense is not the most natural way to talk about those. Instead, the future tense is used more to make predictions or to express probability.

 

[Dark desp]

Flash memory cards - great application for iphone o learn own vocabulary from movies or podcasts

 

[henrythedog]

I can now recommend ‘lightspeed Spanish’ - Gordon and Cynthia Smith-Duran; both professional language teachers.

Many of their podcasts are free and there is additional subscription content.

Their (intermediate level) books are tremendous; the one on the Subjunctive especially - I’ve got a full shelf of Spanish grammar and vocabulary resources, but I keep going back to theirs every time.

For beginners the ‘Pasos’ series (Martin Ellis) is also excellent. I worked through the two books, grammar and CDs over two years with a tutor in support and I’m functionally fluent.

 

[rometimed]

I have been doing lessons through friends of a friend who run: https://en.u-r-us.com/

They are teachers in Mexico who teach one on one, online for about $25/hour.

Only a few months and I wish I had more time to do more but I have learned quite a lot and am happy with it pushing me to get better and better.

 

[OZAJ]

I attended a school in Granada, 4 weeks intensive before my first Camino. The following year I did another 4 weeks.

For revision I use duolingo online.

II would say my Spanish is intermediate level (3), which I find good enough for travel and for simple conversations. I don't need anything more as I don't plan to live in Spain.

 

[David with new Kit!]

I can now recommend ‘lightspeed Spanish’ - Gordon and Cynthia Smith-Duran; both professional language teachers.

Many of their podcasts are free and there is additional subscription content.

Their (intermediate level) books are tremendous; the one on the Subjunctive especially - I’ve got a full shelf of Spanish grammar and vocabulary resources, but I keep going back to theirs every time.

For beginners the ‘Pasos’ series (Martin Ellis) is also excellent. I worked through the two books, grammar and CDs over two years with a tutor in support and I’m functionally fluent.

@henrythedog I support your recommendations as I also use lightspeed Spanish, having bought por y para and ser y estar from their website.

I have also arrived at Pasos 2 and currently working through it.

 

[Former member 99816]

I want to expand my ability to communicate on the camino. It seems like every lesson plan spends a lot of time teaching the fine forms of "tu vs usted," "soy vs estoy," "una vs un," "r vs rr"... I only have so much time, so much brain!
Is it really difficult for a Spaniard to understand an American who uses the wrong form, or is it more like an American hearing a foreigner say, "I are thirsty" - not perfect, but easily overlooked. If I could get by with, "Estoy Americano" and "quiero el cervesa," I'd have more time for everything else.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

If I could get by with, "Estoy Americano" ...

A lot easier to say than "Soy estadounidense".

 

[C clearly]

Is it really difficult for a Spaniard to understand an American who uses the wrong form, or is it more like an American hearing a foreigner say, "I are thirsty" - not perfect, but easily overlooked. If I could get by with, "Estoy Americano" and "quiero el cervesa," I'd have more time for everything else.

"I am thirsty" is easy to understand, so you could spend some time learning how to say things in an easy-to-understand-but-wrong way. But then you also need to learn those hard-to-understand-and-wrong ways, such as "I are married" instead of "he be tired."

Certainly you are not going to become fluent this year, and you are guaranteed to say things like that. About the standard lessons, I think that some understanding of the general way the language works is useful, so it is worth paying attention to some of those early lessons. But don't expect to get them right after you have studied them for a few hours. Given your travel coming up soon, perhaps memorizing the phrases from a phrase book is your best bet. However, if you want to learn the language, you'll need to go through those boring parts, too.

 

[MariaSP]

I want to expand my ability to communicate on the camino. It seems like every lesson plan spends a lot of time teaching the fine forms of "tu vs usted," "soy vs estoy," "una vs un," "r vs rr"... I only have so much time, so much brain!
Is it really difficult for a Spaniard to understand an American who uses the wrong form, or is it more like an American hearing a foreigner say, "I are thirsty" - not perfect, but easily overlooked. If I could get by with, "Estoy Americano" and "quiero el cervesa," I'd have more time for everything else.

I does depend a lot on the type of mistake you make. 'Quiero el cerveza' sounds a little demanding but I'm sure it will be overlooked since you're clearly not a native speaker. 'Estoy americano' will also get the message across, even if it sounds odd.

Other mistakes might make it hard for people to understand what you're trying to say or get you into trouble (be careful who you tell 'estoy caliente'... ).

I would focus on pronouncing as clearly as possible (quite frequently, it's not grammar, but pronunciation, what makes communication difficult). Also, I don't know what lessons you're taking but I would concentrate on the language you're most likely to need for the Camino.

 

[henrythedog]

I want to expand my ability to communicate on the camino. It seems like every lesson plan spends a lot of time teaching the fine forms of "tu vs usted," "soy vs estoy," "una vs un," "r vs rr"... I only have so much time, so much brain!
Is it really difficult for a Spaniard to understand an American who uses the wrong form, or is it more like an American hearing a foreigner say, "I are thirsty" - not perfect, but easily overlooked. If I could get by with, "Estoy Americano" and "quiero el cervesa," I'd have more time for everything else.

Any effort you make will be appreciated and gramatical errors overlooked.

Many native Spanish speakers don’t understand their own grammatical rules as well as a foreign language student; they just grow up with them. The same goes in reverse - I understand English grammar much more since I started learning Spanish.

 

[Former member 99816]

(be careful who you tell 'estoy caliente'... ).

I would focus on pronouncing as clearly as possible (quite frequently, it's not grammar, but pronunciation, what makes communication difficult). Also, I don't know what lessons you're taking but I would concentrate on the language you're most likely to need for the Camino.

Ha ha I will have to remember that, estoy caliente. I'll just have to say it to the right person..
I am taking Pimsleur and they do emphasize pronunciation. The downside is they focus on Latin American spanish - for instance, usted - whereas, as I appreciate it, in Spain you need to ditch that form.

Any effort you make will be appreciated and gramatical errors overlooked.

I hope you are right, it will make my camino more fun.

 

[RJM]

I have rudimentary Spanish speaking skills, at best. On the Frances the locals you deal with in cafes, mercados, albergues, hotels etc deal with foreigners from all over with a wide range of Spanish proficiency from zero to fluent. It is nothing new to them and in my experience they were always gracious and patient with me. Many times fellow pilgrims and said locals asked if they could practice their English with me in extended conversations instead of short ones when there was an opportunity. It was all good.