OBSOLETE COVID THREAD It had to happen — peregrina with covid

[peregrina2000]

My main camino friend in Madrid has sent me a link to this story.

Ocho peregrinos están confinados en un albergue de Palas por un positivo

Una de las integrantes del grupo fue ingresada en el Chus de Santiago âºSanidade desplazará personal al establecimiento para hacer las PCR

www.diariodepontevedra.es

Of a group of 9, one tested positive and is in the hospital. The other 8 are quarantining in Palas de Rei in a private albergue.

Stay safe peregrinos!

 

[MinaKamina]

I'm surprised to read that a PCR test was not available at the centro de salud and that the affected peregrina would have to travel to Lugo for this test the next day. All while sick already.

So her family came, picked her up and took her to the hospital of Santiago de Compostela. Just as well she had family nearby.

Not every pilgrim is that lucky under complicated circumstances.

 

[trecile]

My main camino friend in Madrid has sent me a link to this story.

Ocho peregrinos están confinados en un albergue de Palas por un positivo

Una de las integrantes del grupo fue ingresada en el Chus de Santiago âºSanidade desplazará personal al establecimiento para hacer las PCR

www.diariodepontevedra.es

Of a group of 9, one tested positive and is in the hospital. The other 8 are quarantining in Palas de Rei in a private albergue.

Stay safe peregrinos!

It's concerning that such a young person has symptoms bad enough that require hospitalization.

 

[Marbe2]

It's concerning that such a young person has symptoms bad enough that require hospitalization.

There are many young people in the USA as well as Spain being hospitalized from the Delta Variance. It is the Epidemic of the unvaccinated!

 

[amancio]

I am surprised it took so long to happen... there will be more outbreaks, and there may have been other outbreaks, but with such a mobile population, it is hard to track. Imagine these 8 pilgrims leave Palas de Rei and stay in 5 different albergues the next day together with other 20 pilgrims who in turn go to 10 different albergues the following day... the lockdowns would be massive. Cross my fingers for the health of these young pilgrims. Bummer!

 

[Kathor1]

There is no mention of any track and tracing in the news reports.

It appears that all of them have tested positive by now; apparently, the one who got ill and was tested first travelled by plane from Mallorca, took a bus to Sarria, and the group of 9 friends from uni then stayed in a place (polideportivo???) with either 50 other pilgrims or with beds for 50 pilgrims, occupied by other groups of pilgrims. Luckily, the one tested and reported to have been admitted to a hospital in Santiago is reported as having only light symptoms.

Alfonso Rueda, vicepresident of the regional government insists that the Camino in Galicia is a safe route. The hotels and hostels are complying with the established protocols and, in addition, while incidents do occur, they are isolated cases. That's what he said.

https://www.crtvg.es/informativos/o...n-palas-por-un-posible-gromo-de-covid-5220509 (video has some unrelated footage of current, mainly young, pilgrims in Galicia - fantastic weather apparently) and other news from Galicia

 

[MinaKamina]

There is no mention of any track and tracing in the news reports.

It appears that all of them have tested positive by now; apparently, the one who got ill and was tested first travelled by plane from Mallorca, took a bus to Sarria, and the group of 9 friends from uni then stayed in a place (polideportivo???) with either 50 other pilgrims or with beds for 50 pilgrims, occupied by other groups of pilgrims.

Luckily, the one tested and reported to have been admitted to a hospital in Santiago is reported as having only light symptoms.

Alfonso Rueda, vicepresident of the regional government insists that the Camino in Galicia is a safe route. The hotels and hostels are complying with the established protocols and, in addition, incidents do occur, they are isolated cases.

https://www.crtvg.es/informativos/o...n-palas-por-un-posible-gromo-de-covid-5220509 (video has some unrelated footage of current, mainly young, pilgrims in Galicia - fantastic weather apparently) and other news from Galicia

Apparently, the group considered themselves a 'safe bubble' even if they came together recently from different corners of the country.

It doesn't work that way.....

 

[Kathor1]

Alfonso Rueda, vicepresident of the regional government insists that the Camino in Galicia is a safe route. The hotels and hostels are complying with the established protocols and, in addition, while incidents do occur, they are isolated cases. That's what he said.

He also said - correctly - that last week around 7,000 pilgrims arrived in Santiago (to claim their Compostela).

 

[linkster]

No mention of vaccines in the article. I wonder how many or if any had been vaccinated?

 

[MinaKamina]

No mention of vaccines in the article. I wonder how many or if any had been vaccinated?

In Spain, about 10% of the age group 20-29 has been fully vaccinated.
Below age 20: hardly anyone

Even when vaccinated, someone can catch and pass on COVID, especially the delta variant.

https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/ZROcE/1/

 

[Kathor1]

No mention of vaccines in the article. I wonder how many or if any had been vaccinated?

Does it matter (whether we know or don't know)? Fact is that there is a significant proportion of unvaccinated persons and that fully vaccinated persons can get infected. In the UK, the health minister, 51, double vaccinated, second dose received in May, felt a bit groggy last Friday, had a rapid test on Saturday that said he is infected, confirmed by a PCR test on Sunday.

And in addition to what @MinaKamina already mentioned, here are the percentages for the age group typical for university students in Spain:



Edited for clarification (text in red).

 

[LesBrass]

My son lives in Spain near Gibraltar... He tested positive last Friday... He says 5 people from the office where he works also tested positive. He and his girlfriend are not vaccinated yet ( they want the vaccine) but have both been careful...however they both have to work and they are in offices. So far he is well but of course we worry.

I guess I just wanted to say some young people can't avoid being exposed... I guess the same is true to everyone using public transport to get to school or work too.

Oh I wish it would end soon but I have a feeling we have more to come.

 

[Quicci]

Does it matter?

YES.
If your health condition allows, get vaccinated.

Vaccination does NOT prevent you from getting sick.
It is not a covid-germ-repellent.

It teaches your immunity system to face the real thing, so that with high probability, when you eventually get sick [which does require stronger infection than for unvaccinated people], you most likely won't end up in hospital, but "just" in bed with a fever and a headache.

Exceptions are possible. To compare vaccination to something most people can relate: you won't stop wearing seat belts in a car just because someone survived a crash without it, and the other guy did not with the belt on.

 

[VNwalking]

From another thread, describing the situation in Hornillos:

They had a communal dinner and I’m in a room where 8 of the 10 beds are filled. Some masks here but it’s rather relaxed, even at the bar where I went for an Estrella Galicia : ) Maybe smaller towns are like that?

Eeek.
Given this, there will certainly be more cases to come.

I hope your son recovers quickly, @LesBrass !

 

[KYPolloFrito]

Apparently, the group considered themselves a 'safe bubble' even if they came together recently from different corners of the country.

It doesn't work that way.....

All being fully vaccinated could make a big difference.

 

[Kathor1]

Does it matter?

YES. If your health condition allows, get vaccinated.

I should have been clearer. I meant to say: "Do we need to know whether these nine young pilgrims were vaccinated or not."

The fact is that young people in the EU, including in Spain, are mostly not yet vaccinated because it has not yet been their turn to get a jab let alone two.

 

[Lexicos]

Brace yourselves folks. Pilgrim walks aside……. logic tells you that when you have tens of thousands going to football matches in many countries across the globe, in the middle of a pandemic, you’re simply inviting the virus to come in and make itself at home.
Make yourself a cup of tea.
We’re in for a long ride.

 

[frida1]

It seems crazy that unvaccinated people are traveling around. The result of the Delta variant spreading like wildfire is inevitable. There are certainly risks for spread among the vaccinated, but it’s far less likely one will become very sick. At the least , proof of vaccination needs to be required.

 

[MarLa1]

YES.
If your health condition allows, get vaccinated.

Vaccination does NOT prevent you from getting sick.
It is not a covid-germ-repellent.

It teaches your immunity system to face the real thing, so that with high probability, when you eventually get sick [which does require stronger infection than for unvaccinated people], you most likely won't end up in hospital, but "just" in bed with a fever and a headache.

Exceptions are possible. To compare vaccination to something most people can relate: you won't stop wearing seat belts in a car just because someone survived a crash without it, and the other guy did not with the belt on.

This is not accurate information. Do your own research.

 

[slmb]

There are many young people in the USA as well as Spain being hospitalized from the Delta Variance. It is the Epidemic of the unvaccinated!

Apparently you haven't read how many people that are vaccinated are getting Covid? And passing it around?

 

[Former member 91017]

In general, we try to avoid having different classes of people when it comes to the extension of basic human rights. Marriage, education, freedom of movement.

Clinically the young have been the last group to receive vaccinations because they are least at risk of complications.

When there is a live virus, it *will* accumulate in unvaccinated groups, just like liquid being poured down a funnel.

When a group is denied a scarce resource, like vaccines, because they are held out by some systematized category, we still try not to remove their other basic rights unless those rights — to things IIke movement — have been suspended for everyone.

This is how laws aim to remain as rational and consistent as possible.

Also there is the fact that we force our youth into the worst working conditions, make more demands on them in service oriented work, shove them to do the travel and overtime that senior staff are too tired to accomplish. Our countries are very clear on the human resource extraction to be maximised from the youth.

Adds up to: there will be more COV variations in youth populations from now until at least mid-winter (Northerm hemisphere/ mid-summer in the southern). And our social policies have told them to go back to communal living in university, to return to their crappy jobs….

Moralizing about how they get COV is both pointless and unnecessarily hostile.

 

[Kathor1]

It seems crazy that unvaccinated people are traveling around. The result of the Delta variant spreading like wildfire is inevitable. There are certainly risks for spread among the vaccinated, but it’s far less likely one will become very sick. At the least , proof of vaccination needs to be required.

Young unvaccinated people travel in Spain and elsewhere in Europe right now and will continue to do so during the rest of July and August. I am not sure what you mean by "proof of vaccination needs to be required". My EU DC vaccination certificate is not an amulet . It may be necessary to stimulate individual demand for vaccination a bit more but on the whole it is still high in EU countries and cannot be pushed into higher gears because of the supply/logistics side.

What could be done is more testing to take those who get infected out of the pool as soon as possible. This is obviously not happening on the Camino/in Camino albergues in Spain while Portugal has taken steps to do so.

One option: Stay away yourself and don't travel far and wide even when you are double vaccinated until a higher degree of vaccination in a given population is achieved.

 

[Former member 91017]

Apparently you haven't read how many people that are vaccinated are getting Covid? And passing it around?

This is not surprising and is not distressing to the epidemiologists or the infectious diseases experts. It was expected. Passing an asymptomatic infection to other vaccinated people is not expected to result in the expression of disease in a significant number of cases. Some people will still get sick; some will still die. But the hospital systems won’t be shoved into such a high crisis that they can’t provide care for everyone (Cov+ or not).

The point of vaccines is not principally to suppress transmission of an infection; it is to prevent the expression of disease. These are two entirely different things. And with viruses that mutate very quickly transmission will remain possible; what we are shooting for is the development of antibodies that are able enough to recognize features of the variants *not to express disease*.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

My main camino friend in Madrid has sent me a link to this story.

Ocho peregrinos están confinados en un albergue de Palas por un positivo

Una de las integrantes del grupo fue ingresada en el Chus de Santiago âºSanidade desplazará personal al establecimiento para hacer las PCR

www.diariodepontevedra.es

Of a group of 9, one tested positive and is in the hospital. The other 8 are quarantining in Palas de Rei in a private albergue.

Stay safe peregrinos!

Sadly, this virus is not over, not by any stretch. It is not a safe world, yet, and may take a few years to get there. It will have to be over before everyone will believe. And likely not even then.

 

[S.Duffenais]

YES.
If your health condition allows, get vaccinated.

Vaccination does NOT prevent you from getting sick.
It is not a covid-germ-repellent.

It teaches your immunity system to face the real thing, so that with high probability, when you eventually get sick [which does require stronger infection than for unvaccinated people], you most likely won't end up in hospital, but "just" in bed with a fever and a headache.

Exceptions are possible. To compare vaccination to something most people can relate: you won't stop wearing seat belts in a car just because someone survived a crash without it, and the other guy did not with the belt on.

Great analogy

 

[trecile]

I guess I just wanted to say some young people can't avoid being exposed... I guess the same is true to everyone using public transport to get to school or work too.

Of course you are right. What people of all ages can do is avoid leisure activities which can spread it to others.

This is not accurate information. Do your own research.

Not being an epidemiologist, virologist, or public health expert I will trust what the overwhelming majority of experts in those fields who have years of study and work experience recommend.

 

[peregrina2000]

Just to remind everyone to steer clear of anything that does not fall into the category of factual. And no vaccine debates please. This thread should focus on what is going on in albergues in Spain. Please post that information without judgments or opinions attached. I know it’s hard, but the other course always ends in strong disagreements and thread closures.

 

[zzotte]

There are many young people in the USA as well as Spain being hospitalized from the Delta Variance. It is the Epidemic of the unvaccinated!

please Note this just a comment about what you said, it’s not my intention to “start anything”

before you comment about the unvaccinated being responsible for the new epidemic, please consider the fact that the vaccinated, don’t were mask, gather in large groups, takes more risks, less caution about taking appropriate measure and can carry the virus without knowing and spreading like wild fire, I think the vaccinated is the issue not the other way around. Just my two cents. Please don’t reply. Thanks

 

[trecile]

please Note this just a comment about what you said, it’s not my intention to “start anything”

before you comment about the unvaccinated being responsible for the new epidemic, please consider the fact that the vaccinated, don’t were mask, gather in large groups, takes more risks, less caution about taking appropriate measure and can carry the virus without knowing and spreading like wild fire, I think the vaccinated is the issue not the other way around. Just my two cents. Please don’t reply. Thanks

In my area just around 46% are vaccinated, but when I go to the store only about 1-5% are wearing masks. Simple math tells me that most of the unmasked are also unvaccinated. Although I am vaccinated I wear a mask in most indoor public places.

 

[dailycamino]

please Note this just a comment about what you said, it’s not my intention to “start anything”

before you comment about the unvaccinated being responsible for the new epidemic, please consider the fact that the vaccinated, don’t were mask, gather in large groups, takes more risks, less caution about taking appropriate measure and can carry the virus without knowing and spreading like wild fire, I think the vaccinated is the issue not the other way around. Just my two cents. Please don’t reply. Thanks

I’m fully vaccinated and continue to wear my mask as many others do. I’m a licensed healthcare professional who works in close contact with people in small closed rooms. I’m not permitted to ask others about their status and I can’t accurately guess if they are or aren’t vaccinated. Vaccination isn’t a guarantee that you don’t get the virus.

 

[lt56ny]

Does it matter? In the UK, the health minister, 51, double vaccinated, second dose received in May, felt a bit groggy last Friday, had a rapid test on Saturday that said he is infected, confirmed by a PCR test on Sunday.

And in addition to what @MinaKamina already mentioned, here are the percentages for the age group typical for university students in Spain:

View attachment 105188

It really does matter regarding whether or not a person is vaccinated or not. Young people are getting the Delta Variant as it is much more contagious and as you have noted many younger people are not vaccinated. Having the vaccine is not a guarantee that you are 100% safe and there will always be people who are fully vaccinated who will contract Covid especially in this more virulent strain. What the vaccine does help to insure that in the event a person does get Covid after vaccination they will very, very likely have symptoms that will not require hospitalization. There will always be outliers that a practitioner may see clinically. That may actually be significant in that individuals practice. But the statistical evidence is overwhelming that being fully vaccinated shows that a person is far safer not to contract the Covid and if they do it is far more likely they will not suffer serious effects.

 

[peregrina2000]

My finger is getting closer to the “close thread” button.

Please — no more debates about vaccines, no more trying to get in the last word. The sides are clear, the opinions strong, and this debate has nothing to do with the factual reporting of how the infected peregrina/s is/are doing, the response of authorities, and how albergues are handling this.

 

[Kathor1]

It really does matter regarding whether or not a person is vaccinated or not.

I tried to clarify what I meant to say in a later post. I have now also edited my earlier post. It now says: Does it matter (whether we know or don't know)? Fact is that there is a significant proportion of unvaccinated persons and that fully vaccinated persons can get infected.

 

[lt56ny]

I tried to clarify what I meant to say in a later post. I have now also edited my earlier post. It now says: Does it matter (whether we know or don't know)? Fact is that there is a significant proportion of unvaccinated persons and that fully vaccinated persons can get infected.

Just before I saw this post I thought about editing mine to just say that I am not sure but it sounds like you are saying that it does not matter at all if you have a vaccine. Not to assume that you felt that way but that is how it sounded. It is all good and have a really good day.

 

[NorthernLight]

I’d hazard a guess that there have been other covid+ pilgrims, but they went home (or were back home) when they got sick enough to get tested ... or the news folks were busy those days.

Let’s hope these pilgrims get well and the spread is contained.

 

[frida1]

I love to travel and really hoped to do so this fall. Vaccinated or not, it seems very likely that contracting and passing the Delta variant will be a big risk. For myself, it seems irresponsible to do that, so will be cancelling my much anticipated trip. Just on a personal level, testing positive and needing to quarantining or not be allowed to return home and needing to quarantine seems very unappealing.

 

[Bob from L.A. !]

Even when vaccinated, someone can catch and pass on COVID, especially the delta variant.

I can't emphasis the truthfulness of this statement enough !
My 75 year old brother in law, fully vaccinated in April 2021, is currently in the Intensive Care Unit (ICU) of a local hospital fighting for his life. He is/was very "mask conscious" prior to getting Covid.
Yes, you can become infected even if you HAVE been vaccinated.

 

[VNwalking]

May he recover quickly, @Bob from L.A. !

 

[DankeL]

The occurrence of a Covid-19 infection has made real (concretized) the risks of a Camino at this current point in time.

Every individual's risk/reward calculation has to be re-evaluated:
1. The likelihood of contracting it, given the low rates of vaccination; the crowded living quarters, communal meals, etc.
2. The medical infrastructure nearest the point of contraction/confirmation of Covid. Should infection rates increase, one can anticipate the demand will exceed the health care facilities. Clearly, there's a financial cost to this, as evidenced in article about flights required to other cities. There's also the question of whether the treatment/medication available in some of these locations are the best possible/available
3. Impact to one's long term health. There's insufficient information yet why some are long-haul victims, struggling for a normalcy.
4. Finally, the anxiety and worry that loved ones will face, more so, if they are far away in another country.

For those already on the Camino, prayers for a safe journey. Take extra care vis a vis 'crowded situations.'

 

[Albertagirl]

We shall all see the progress of the Delta variant in our own countries and in Spain, or wherever we walk as pilgrims. In the meantime, this news about a pilgrim in an albergue sick with covid is very sad, but also a warning to all, to consider whether our safety depends on keeping a physical distance from strangers. In planning my fall pilgrim walk, I am trying to avoid albergues and to book private accommodation wherever possible. As vaccination rates rise, this may eventually be less necessary.

 

[peregrina2000]

The moderator consensus is that it is time to close. Here is some guidance that will hopefully guide future threads and future discussions.

We will delete:

1. Statements bordering on misinformation according to public health guidance.
2. Opinion/comments for/against/about vaccines and variant transmissibility.
3. Covid-focused opinion and rationalization of going or not going on the camino
4. Other covid-related debates that have been thoroughly exhausted on the forum

We do think it’s important, for prospective and current walkers, to hear about what’s actually happening on the camino. But that kind of information seems like an opening for the spiral into the four topics noted above.

We know covid is going to be with us and the camino for a long time to come, but we simply cannot keep having these debates. PLEASE limit your posts to factual and pertinent information.

Thanks and buen camino.