Is this a sign?

[Telboyo]

I have just recently, (10 days ago) finished the CF, when I arrived in SDC I was underwhelmed, (the disenchantment started in Sarria) It felt like a friday. "Oh good , that month is over time to move on. "
Just a drifter!
This has been the story of my life:
Finished High School - What's Next
Joined the RAF by mistake, only went to the careers office to keep my parents off my back! - 22 years preparing, training, repairing and loading aircraft for war, despatched as a technician on helicopter fleets to humanitarian missions etc. Job done! What is next.

Last 15 years I have continued drifting between aircraft maintenance and other less skilled mundane jobs.
So when I hear people say "The Camino will Provide" I think " Life always provides, what is so special"

I have met many people who swear that the Camino changed their life, I don't have that feeling yet, but whilst in Sarria I purchased a 2nd credencial because I thought I would run out of stamp squares, I didn't need it as I had 1 square spare. In the last 10 days I have been trying to process my experience over those 26 days from SJPP to SDC. I think I walked too fast as evidenced by the need to stop for 2 full days in Burgos due to foot problems.

I walked the Camino with real intent, (intent to finish) perhaps too much, but it has not helped to stop my driftyness, is the spare credencial a sign that I should do another Camino in the same manner as my life, as a drifter with no real target?

All through my Camino I felt "odd" because I did not visit any Churches, although I went to a C of E school I am not a practising Christian like the vast majority of British people, for the last 15 years I have been a practising Druid (I have only met Druids who have completed the Camino some of them walked it 15 years ago) I lost faith with the Church back in 1999, I was on a technical course in Rome and decided to check out the tourist sites so popped into the Vatican, every time I reminisce about this trip I feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, those poor mites live in poverty compared to the Holy See.
15 years later I was visiting a friend who lives in the Pyrenees and we went on a day trip to Lourdes, beautiful church, but why do they need to have list the donors on special tiles on the entrance to the church? This is OK for a new football stadium but not for a House of God. When I walked past the grotto I was more shocked, it was possible to buy a candle to light to pray for your loved one, no problem with that, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 euro donation that is OK. But why do the people who pay more get a bigger candle? Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

[Gumba]

Telboyo, I can relate to your post in a 'same but different' kind of way.

I was hoping to find all the answers to something that had been troubling me. This would happen, I figured, once I laid my stone at Cruz de Ferro. I realised before reaching Burgos that I already had the answer and had had it for days - I had been walking with a sense of peace that I hadnt known for a long time. The Camino didnt sort the thing out for me per se, rather, I found the answers when walking on the camino. I am finding that we are seeing subtle changes still, a year after we walked. For us, walking form SJPDP to Roncesvalles nearly broke us, but it didnt and in every day life I feel - and I remind my children who also walked - that we are much stronger than we think. It wasn't some grand epiphany but we are changed in such subtle ways. It always brings a smile to my face when I realise this.

Should you walk the Camino to rid the anger? Perhaps. Only you can answer that. I am often asked why we are walking the Camino again when there is so much more to see. I say 'to get it right'. They laugh at me and think I am being frivolous. But it is true - I really do have a sense of getting it right this time around, and my family all agree. It was hard - physically, mentally and spritually. On our next walk we will be so much more prepared - and I dont mean just the long preparatory walks. - Something different.

I hope you find your peace.

 

[Deleted member 397]

If you do decide on another camino anything except the CF would be preferable..The Mozarabe and Levante are still reasonable, and maybe take it a little slower..
On the Portuguese I had a smiliar experience to yours at Lourdes when I went to Fatima. Scenes of expensive candles being through into an area that looked like an outdoor BBQ And as for listing donors that's just a variation on selling indulgences..nice and profitable

 

[RumAndChupacabras]

@Telboyo...What a post!
All I can tell you right now is the following: Apart from those four I met and took in as my Camino family, my first Camino was AWFUL! Yes, you read me right. My life changing Camino began in the years (YEARS) after, I returned.
With everything that I have, I hope that you will be open to and grow from this Camino and all other things which come your way...in the days to come.

For me Camino started, when I returned.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Telboyo, I am not clear as to what you are thinking is the source of your anger.

 

[kelleymac]

Your anger seems to be leaping out everywhere-- and yet, you seem very idealistic. As you are seem upset at the christian aspects (sites? history?) perhaps you would be happier and be able to sort things out by walking the Appalachian Trail, or the Wild Atlantic Way. Just a thought.

 

[Deleted member 397]

Just remembered the GR trails in France. These routes are not religious for the vast majority although some do run to SJPD. Of the top of my head there is the Stevenson Trail, Plantagenate trail as well as mountain, coastal and canal routes....all of which are well worth considering

 

[Mark T17]

Hi Telboyo, interesting read, its not often you see a negative post on this forum but I did relate to your story and we probably have a similar history and experience on the Camino. I spent over 10 years in a Police Force in Australia, so nothing in life really surprises me anymore. In 2017 I over planned and rushed my Camino Frances on a bike in 12 days. I too arrived in SDC and thought, well is this it?

I got home and now I cant seem to get away from this Forum, so I'm planning on going back to walk the Norte and Primitivo in 2022 after the holy year and when I am kids free. In 2022 I certainly want to take my time, smell the roses and focus on the present rather than rushing through according to a fast track timetable. Enjoying the beauty of the northern Spanish coastline and the mountains will certainly be an adventure. I think this mind set will give me more time to reflect on life and realise how lucky we are.

Good luck !

 

[David]

Interesting post that has many facets. Telboyo, the Camino can only be 'life-changing' if one needs or wants to change one's life you know - and sometimes it is working without the person realising it, until they are drawn back again to repeat but in a different internal way.

Apart from your general attitude of anger, which comes from a deep disappointment and inner loneliness, your anger at the Church - is an anger at the trappings of organised religion and it is probable that were Jesus to appear today that he would feel exactly the same - but what you miss, both with your experience of Camino and your experience of "Church" is the inner journey ...

... a real human life is always about the inner journey, not an external tourist package. The 'answer' is never 'out there' it is always 'in here' .... hhmm .. perhaps you should play to your strengths; you write about being a drifter as if that is a bad thing whereas many of the most extraordinarily compassionate and awake humans to have walked this planet have also been drifters. One famous medieval Zen Abbot and Master, Matsuo Basho, once wrote

"The moon and sun are eternal travellers. Even the years wander on. A lifetime adrift in a boat, or in old age leading a tired horse into the years, every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home. From the earliest times there have always been some who perished along the road. Still I have always been drawn by wind-blown clouds into dreams of a lifetime of wandering"

You say that you are now a Druid - I only mention this as you did - but there is no such thing in the sense of a lineage with real Druids. They had no written language so have left us nothing of their beliefs, understandings, or practises so a modern 'Druid' is just a person dressed up in a costume playing at reality.
It is possible that because of your fixation on the external that Christianity is not the right path for you at the moment. Although within it there is deep contemplation - which is the same as meditation - you seem unable to see past the external trappings to the inner - so ... have you thought of Buddhism? A simple practise that leads one to the inner, to question oneself, to see the external in a different detached way ... such practise can let anger drop away, like putting down a heavy rucksack and walking on, upright, unladen, and free - and perhaps one day you may return and have another look at Christian teachings (not the external, the teachings of Yeshua).

But! So you think the Camino doesn't provide? Isn't life changing for you? and yet ... there you are .. holding your almost virgin pilgrim passport, and here you are .... writing about Camino??

HHmmmmmm ....... I think that the Camino has not done with you yet Telboyo!! .

 

[Dorpie]

Great post @Telboyo

It's pretty frustrating when people post about their dissatisifaction with this or that without giving any background so great that you've given us some clues.

I'm also by nature a drifter who's never had a life plan and without that it's hard to feel challenged or experience the satifaction of achievement. Can I ask how difficult you found the camino? I'm curious because for me camino number one was a massive accomplishment. I'd never done a long distance walk and for the last two weeks I was in terrible blister pain, this meant that reaching Santiago was one of the biggest highs of my life. I loved camino 2 also but in the end it didn't have the same sense of satisfaction because it was too easy (relatively), I knew I'd finish and I barely had a blister. Maybe you should consider one of the tougher trails with fewer amenities to really push yourself.

As for adorned churches....as much as I think of them at all, I think about them in the context of a life which for many centuries for many people was one with little beauty or hope, for many through a tithe or other contribution this was all they had to hang onto (even if it made them financially poorer in the process) and I can accept that if not necessarily approve. I'll leave it there for fear of breaching forum rules.

 

[Mike Long]

How about using your next camino walk to be focused on helping others allow the Way. Giving, even in the smallest way, will bring joy and perhaps bring new meaning to your adventure.

 

[Pam Scott]

I have just recently, (10 days ago) finished the CF, when I arrived in SDC I was underwhelmed, (the disenchantment started in Sarria) It felt like a friday. "Oh good , that month is over time to move on. "
Just a drifter!
This has been the story of my life:
Finished High School - What's Next
Joined the RAF by mistake, only went to the careers office to keep my parents off my back! - 22 years preparing, training, repairing and loading aircraft for war, despatched as a technician on helicopter fleets to humanitarian missions etc. Job done! What is next.

Last 15 years I have continued drifting between aircraft maintenance and other less skilled mundane jobs.
So when I hear people say "The Camino will Provide" I think " Life always provides, what is so special"

I have met many people who swear that the Camino changed their life, I don't have that feeling yet, but whilst in Sarria I purchased a 2nd credencial because I thought I would run out of stamp squares, I didn't need it as I had 1 square spare. In the last 10 days I have been trying to process my experience over those 26 days from SJPP to SDC. I think I walked too fast as evidenced by the need to stop for 2 full days in Burgos due to foot problems.

I walked the Camino with real intent, (intent to finish) perhaps too much, but it has not helped to stop my driftyness, is the spare credencial a sign that I should do another Camino in the same manner as my life, as a drifter with no real target?

All through my Camino I felt "odd" because I did not visit any Churches, although I went to a C of E school I am not a practising Christian like the vast majority of British people, for the last 15 years I have been a practising Druid (I have only met Druids who have completed the Camino some of them walked it 15 years ago) I lost faith with the Church back in 1999, I was on a technical course in Rome and decided to check out the tourist sites so popped into the Vatican, every time I reminisce about this trip I feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, those poor mites live in poverty compared to the Holy See.
15 years later I was visiting a friend who lives in the Pyrenees and we went on a day trip to Lourdes, beautiful church, but why do they need to have list the donors on special tiles on the entrance to the church? This is OK for a new football stadium but not for a House of God. When I walked past the grotto I was more shocked, it was possible to buy a candle to light to pray for your loved one, no problem with that, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 euro donation that is OK. But why do the people who pay more get a bigger candle? Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

If you finish another Camino as a Druid aim to finish at Finisterre ,where before the Christians started walking to Santiago de Compostela the Pagans ended their walk. Hope you find what you are looking for

 

[caminoresearcher]

I appreciate your honest post, and I don’t think you’re alone in your Camino experience. One of the problems with walking the Camino in the age of social media is that it creates tremendous expectations. Many pilgrims do have transformative experiences along the way, but everyone’s Camino is different, and with so many tales of transformation out there, pilgrims sometimes feel that if something so dramatic doesn’t happen to them that they’ve somehow “done it wrong”. The circumstances that bring people to the Camino and the experience of walking the Camino itself vary broadly. I spoke to many pilgrims along the way who were hoping for some kind of epiphany and were disappointed that it didn’t come. You can’t force epiphanies. The Camino isn’t a magic journey, it’s just a journey, a space that allows you time to contemplate your existence. It sounds like it definitely offered that to you, as here you are, continuing to contemplate the meaning in your life. As others have said, the pilgrimage doesn’t stop in Santiago, and really, as the cliche goes “begins at the end”. You can continue the journey in whatever way feels right from here. Best of luck to you.

 

[DonnaS18]

@Telboyo Here are your clues.
"The Camino will Provide" I think " Life always provides, what is so special" ....
I have met many people who swear that the Camino changed their life, I don't have that feeling yet...
I walked the Camino with real intent, (intent to finish) perhaps too much, but it has not helped to stop my driftyness ..... or am I barking up the wrong tree?”

You were so busy getting to the destination you may inadvertently have missed the journey. Your RAF training has taught you to focus on the deadline, working with aircraft to schedule has taught you well in timeliness in meeting end goals.
I noticed many on the CF marching to the end, walking faster, determined to put in the miles k’s behind them - apparently competing to go the furthest or quickest - for what ? To get the ..best bed .. I kept wondering why? Did they know and realise what they passed by?
Ask yourself how many significant people you REALLY met? What imprints did these encounters leave on your life journey? Whose life changed by meeting you on the Camino? Which animals and buildings talked to you? What new food and customs did you try for the first time and really enjoy or integrate into your future life? Even Without being religious Churches still provide a great historical grounding and significant place for contemplating how you and your life actually fit and can influence the bigger picture.

It’s really good that you recognise you may have missed it... conditioning is probably responsible but slow down and learn to live now -because it’s never too late to become more observant, engaged, purposeful and mindful. You will no longer be adrift and suddenly you will realise how much you’ve been missing and then surprisingly you’ll want Friday and the end goal to be further away every day.
Maybe do it again, real s-l-o-w. Next time be determined to understand what learning or lesson each place and person you encounter brings to you.

 

[VNwalking]

What a good and honest post, @Telboyo .
It is the walking that is the essence of way, not the arrival.
So if (as you say) you were busy 'leaning forward' into the future, towards the experience of finishing, you might have missed seeing something along the way. And maybe you had expectations?

But the camino hasn't finished - the next phase starts now, digesting the entire thing - which it seems you are already doing.

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

If you walk the camino again, just do it walk, without an agenda. Maybe the anger will drop away, maybe not. But you will certainly learn something about it, and about yourself - if you have that intention.

The drifting? You'll learn about that too, if you look along the way.
It could just be the way you are.
It could be a defense.
It could be fear.

Who knows? You will, though, if you look.
And you don't have to walk the camino to do that, but it sure helps.

 

[Ferdinand the Bull]

I appreciate your honest post, and I don’t think you’re alone in your Camino experience. One of the problems with walking the Camino in the age of social media is that it creates tremendous expectations. Many pilgrims do have transformative experiences along the way, but everyone’s Camino is different, and with so many tales of transformation out there, pilgrims sometimes feel that if something so dramatic doesn’t happen to them that they’ve somehow “done it wrong”. The circumstances that bring people to the Camino and the experience of walking the Camino itself vary broadly. I spoke to many pilgrims along the way who were hoping for some kind of epiphany and were disappointed that it didn’t come. You can’t force epiphanies. The Camino isn’t a magic journey, it’s just a journey, a space that allows you time to contemplate your existence. It sounds like it definitely offered that to you, as here you are, continuing to contemplate the meaning in your life. As others have said, the pilgrimage doesn’t stop in Santiago, and really, as the cliche goes “begins at the end”. You can continue the journey in whatever way feels right from here. Best of luck to you.

So true. For me it was in the days and months after the first Camino when I thought about my experiences that the small and subtle changes began. And they were for the better and have been lasting. So patience and thinking may be an advice for anyone hoping for a miracle.

 

[KenProudler]

The following may seem a bit cynical but it is prompted by your story of the candles and absolutely reflects my own views: Some years sgo I was in a church in a small tourist town in the south of France. A glass display cabinet held ten or twenty letters and stories from people who had needed a miracle, prayed for it, and had been rewarded with a miraculous outcome. I read it with interest. A black-frocked cleric suddenly appeared next to me. I asked him: ‘Where is the other cabinet?’ He looked puzzled, so I continued: ‘There must be millions of people who need and pray for a miracle but don’t receive one. Where do you display all of that?’

He had no answer , of course.

 

[koilife]

I have just recently, (10 days ago) finished the CF, when I arrived in SDC I was underwhelmed, (the disenchantment started in Sarria) . . .
So when I hear people say "The Camino will Provide" I think "Life always provides, what is so special"

I am reminded of a quote from the very cheesy movie, "Seven Days, Six Nights", where a very drunk Harrison Ford (Quinn) is a local island pilot in the South Pacific, and Anne Heche (Robin) is an uptight, mission-oriented New York magazine publisher:

Quinn: They come here looking for the magic, hoping to find romance, when they can't find it anywhere else.
Robin: Maybe they will.
Quinn: It's an island, babe. If you didn't bring it here, you won't find it here.

While I typically distrust Hollywood "wisdom," I think this quote (somewhat) applies to the Camino. If you pack your cares and concerns and never unpack them along the way, they'll still be in the pack in SdC and on the plane back home. The only way way to get something along the way is to empty your pack enough to hold it, and the only way you find it is to slow down enough to look for it.

How about using your next camino walk to be focused on helping others allow the Way. Giving, even in the smallest way, will bring joy and perhaps bring new meaning to your adventure.

Absolutely!

Best wishes (and prayers if you'll accept them) for what comes next.

 

[David]

@koilife - what a great quote!! not cheesy at all!! Love it!!

Here is another, from Eat, Pray, Love - "God in us, As us" - get that and it all 'works'

 

[IngridF]

Telboyo your anger is leaping off the page and your disappointment is saddening. But, yes I agree, what an honest post. You might think you are done with the Caminio, but I think the Camino is NOT done with you. It almost feels like this was just a prep walk and you might be ready for the next. You have a lot of questions, and I wonder if the disappointment is part of not having gotten the answers and your expectations obviously were not met.
In 2012, when I walked my first and met Tomas in Majarin, with my limited spanish we had an interesting exchange. Without me saying much, he just looked at me and said,"pilgrim you have a lot of questions" how the heck did he know. Went on to talk about how pilgrims expect all their answers being met by the end of the Camino, and how angry and disappointment they could be ,when they found out there was no answer. I asked, well what do you do then? His answer was: Ask another question. What he really mend was, maybe you were asking the wrong ones.

I don't know if this might be true for you. My heart goes out to you, because you are hurting and so I wish you much Light and Love on your next journey, be it on the Camino or somewhere else. Trust the Universe. Once you believe, signs are everywhere.

 

[jdickson]

Maybe you're trying too hard. What's so wrong with drifting? You're living an interesting life it seems. Another Camino may not rid you of your anger, but lower expectations may help you find your way. Best to you.

 

[Icacos]

Go as far as you can see; when you get there you’ll be able to see further - J.P. Morgan.

That’s why I walked my camino. It sounds like you are seeing further already. Keep going, even with baby steps ... you will find what you’re looking for.

Sending positive thoughts ....

 

[Bumpa]

I have just recently, (10 days ago) finished the CF, when I arrived in SDC I was underwhelmed, (the disenchantment started in Sarria) It felt like a friday. "Oh good , that month is over time to move on. "
Just a drifter!
This has been the story of my life:
Finished High School - What's Next
Joined the RAF by mistake, only went to the careers office to keep my parents off my back! - 22 years preparing, training, repairing and loading aircraft for war, despatched as a technician on helicopter fleets to humanitarian missions etc. Job done! What is next.

Last 15 years I have continued drifting between aircraft maintenance and other less skilled mundane jobs.
So when I hear people say "The Camino will Provide" I think " Life always provides, what is so special"

I have met many people who swear that the Camino changed their life, I don't have that feeling yet, but whilst in Sarria I purchased a 2nd credencial because I thought I would run out of stamp squares, I didn't need it as I had 1 square spare. In the last 10 days I have been trying to process my experience over those 26 days from SJPP to SDC. I think I walked too fast as evidenced by the need to stop for 2 full days in Burgos due to foot problems.

I walked the Camino with real intent, (intent to finish) perhaps too much, but it has not helped to stop my driftyness, is the spare credencial a sign that I should do another Camino in the same manner as my life, as a drifter with no real target?

All through my Camino I felt "odd" because I did not visit any Churches, although I went to a C of E school I am not a practising Christian like the vast majority of British people, for the last 15 years I have been a practising Druid (I have only met Druids who have completed the Camino some of them walked it 15 years ago) I lost faith with the Church back in 1999, I was on a technical course in Rome and decided to check out the tourist sites so popped into the Vatican, every time I reminisce about this trip I feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, those poor mites live in poverty compared to the Holy See.
15 years later I was visiting a friend who lives in the Pyrenees and we went on a day trip to Lourdes, beautiful church, but why do they need to have list the donors on special tiles on the entrance to the church? This is OK for a new football stadium but not for a House of God. When I walked past the grotto I was more shocked, it was possible to buy a candle to light to pray for your loved one, no problem with that, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 euro donation that is OK. But why do the people who pay more get a bigger candle? Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

A very honest post indeed telboyo. I to have been pushed away from organized religion, although that is how I was raised, by the overt and sometimes blatant opulence and extravagance of the houses which represent them. The display intended from early times to create a sense of awe in the faithful. I remember walking out of the cathedral in Burgos still overwhelmed by the interior to almost walk into a young mother with a toddler in a stroller who was going through the church's garbage dumpster. A contrast of major proportions, separated by a wall. For me one I will always remember when seeing pictures of the cathedral.
This, however, doesn't mean that I don't walk wrapped in my own understanding of my spirituality

Please remember that the change you seek must occur within you. We, as a collective group, may look at something and understand it in a myriad of ways due to our own histories and perceptions. Perhaps you walked this camino "with intent" when you were not ready to accept the changes presented. Perhaps your anger is the onset of recognizing the change already happening in you. I hope that you come to peace. Perhaps walking again with "no intent" will help. All the best my friend.

 

[Walton]

Telboyo

Here is a different take on your post for you to mull over.

You finished your Camino - Fantastic achievement! You did it your way. Great

You finished High School - Well done.

Twenty-two years in the RAF. We thank you for your service. That's a long time and you should be proud.

Fifteen years - drifting from one job to another - What's wrong with that? Think of all the experience and knowledge you've gained. Good on you.

You seem to have lived a good life and have achieved a lot.

When you say, no real target - do you mean goals? You seem to be very target / goal oriented, absolutely nothing wrong with that, but am I sensing that you'd like to be less so and more living in the moment? Yes/No?

Yes - another Camino is a must for you.

One that is different. No point in repeating more of the same and feeling the same way. How about one where there is no strict time limit, one where you dawdle along, one where you do different things like go to a Pilgrims mass, visit a museum, sit in a field for an hour watching life and pilgrims pass you by. Take your time and visit those wonderful cafe's, try different food.

There is much wrong with the world, but there is much beauty and sometimes it is easy to ignore the beauty and let the wrongness take away or dim our light.

Unfortunately, being angry won't change the world, but it will change you and generally not in a good way unless you can do something about whatever it is that is making you feel this way.

Talking about your feelings on this forum is a good thing. There is so much wisdom and experience in reading what others on this forum have said. I am constantly astounded by the wisdom of fellow forum members and by the quotes that forum posters often allude to. It makes me feel and be very humble, so your honest post has a good purpose and you probably didn't realise this at the time.

You may find that it is nice to talk to someone remote from you who listens to and guides people on this path called life.

After I was made redundant, I spent many hours talking with a psychologist who helped me process my life a lot. I took up Wing Chun Kung Fu at age 58 for many years and this helped me find a stillness, peace and I guess a non-religious spirituality in myself that I'd never known before. I also do some volunteer work, to give a little back to society. Walking several Caminos with my dear wife has made my life tingle with excitement, planning and talking about the past ones and planning the next one. There is something magical about long distance walking and something about meeting people from all walks of life along the way.

I too, like you have real concerns about religious organisations, but I've learned not to stress with things that I cannot control. Instead, I have learned to admire the beauty of religious creation and accept that whilst there is a lot wrong, there is also a lot of good that these organisations do for people as well.

Wishing you all the best

Graham

 

[Deleted member 73526]

I think a lot of us feel as though we're drifting. I've also had an unplanned career and life. I've enjoyed moderate success in my career and I can't say that I have experienced hardships in life. But I wonder why I don't have a purpose - It amazes me to see people who appear to feel fulfilled. It's as though they are in the place where they are supposed to be. Perhaps they have a life plan or a goal that motivates them. Or perhaps they've achieved a serene detachment from worldly cares. Or perhaps ... they're also wondering what on earth is going on. I sometimes need to remind myself that "You can't compare what you feel inside to what you see of other people from the outside."

 

[sugargypsy]

I admit, I'm sort of puzzled @Telboyo.

I started reading this thread avidly, when you opened it. Especially since I'm going to start walking the CF first time in 6 days. Also walking to find answers, well, not really, more like to find new ways, because at the moment I'm not sure which questions I need to ask. But that's a different matter, not to be discussed here.

Your post is honest, not something which one reads often here.

Then I read your reply in this thread.

So you sort of already found an explanation why there was no epiphany for you on your Camino or not?
You were writing there:

"I think this is why I did not have any great revelations on the Camino, many of the stories and experiences People talk of are things that I experience all the time. I am in the very fortunate position to have the time to sit and contemplate life on a daily basis."

So, why are you really disappointed, mad, angry or surprised, that the Camino hasn't changed - so far - anything yet? Somehow this seems to be a bit contradictory for me, when reading your post here. I'm not an english native speaker, I apologize, if I understood / misinterpreted something not correctly.

 

[Icacos]

I might be missing something here (it’s been known to happen) but I’m not sure I’m comfortable seeing something a member posts on one thread being compared with something posted by that same member on another thread, and then questioning the member on it. It seems that the poster/member in question is in a quandary, and is searching for an answer. What we feel on one day might be a bit different from what we feel on another day. I am aware I don’t question and analyse each and every thing a person says and does (it’s not that important to me) but in this instance calling on a member to clarify doesn’t sit right with me. Others may feel otherwise.

 

[Anthony18]

I have just recently, (10 days ago) finished the CF, when I arrived in SDC I was underwhelmed, (the disenchantment started in Sarria) It felt like a friday. "Oh good , that month is over time to move on. "
Just a drifter!
This has been the story of my life:
Finished High School - What's Next
Joined the RAF by mistake, only went to the careers office to keep my parents off my back! - 22 years preparing, training, repairing and loading aircraft for war, despatched as a technician on helicopter fleets to humanitarian missions etc. Job done! What is next.

Last 15 years I have continued drifting between aircraft maintenance and other less skilled mundane jobs.
So when I hear people say "The Camino will Provide" I think " Life always provides, what is so special"

I have met many people who swear that the Camino changed their life, I don't have that feeling yet, but whilst in Sarria I purchased a 2nd credencial because I thought I would run out of stamp squares, I didn't need it as I had 1 square spare. In the last 10 days I have been trying to process my experience over those 26 days from SJPP to SDC. I think I walked too fast as evidenced by the need to stop for 2 full days in Burgos due to foot problems.

I walked the Camino with real intent, (intent to finish) perhaps too much, but it has not helped to stop my driftyness, is the spare credencial a sign that I should do another Camino in the same manner as my life, as a drifter with no real target?

All through my Camino I felt "odd" because I did not visit any Churches, although I went to a C of E school I am not a practising Christian like the vast majority of British people, for the last 15 years I have been a practising Druid (I have only met Druids who have completed the Camino some of them walked it 15 years ago) I lost faith with the Church back in 1999, I was on a technical course in Rome and decided to check out the tourist sites so popped into the Vatican, every time I reminisce about this trip I feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, those poor mites live in poverty compared to the Holy See.
15 years later I was visiting a friend who lives in the Pyrenees and we went on a day trip to Lourdes, beautiful church, but why do they need to have list the donors on special tiles on the entrance to the church? This is OK for a new football stadium but not for a House of God. When I walked past the grotto I was more shocked, it was possible to buy a candle to light to pray for your loved one, no problem with that, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 euro donation that is OK. But why do the people who pay more get a bigger candle? Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

For me, I find that my life, thus far, has always been a "What's next?" As much as I love down time and shooting the breeze, I eventually have to find something to chase after. A challenge...something with a purpose...whatever it may be, just something to do. I know that in the past, I've found solitary walks to be healing and insightful. Is it the direct contact with nature that brings inner peace, or maybe the time to think-absent from the typical distractions and noise from modern city life? For me, I believe it's a bit of both. I think the "What's next?" is a good thing. It gives you something to plan for. A new "purpose" filled adventure. Yes, maybe another Camino is in the works for you. Go for it, and Buen Camino!

 

[koilife]

@koilife - what a great quote!! not cheesy at all!! Love it!!

Here is another, from Eat, Pray, Love - "God in us, As us" - get that and it all 'works'

I think the Catholic version of that is "Love, Pray, Eat" . . .

I neglected to mention in my post that I always leave room in my pack to bring back as much Spanish brandy as they'll let me through customs with, reducing me to Pack, Pray, Drink . . .

 

[Icacos]

I think the Catholic version of that is "Love, Pray, Eat" . . .

I neglected to mention in my post that I always leave room in my pack to bring back as much Spanish brandy as they'll let me through customs with, reducing me to Pack, Pray, Drink . . .

Nice to see you back @koilife. I’ve missed your posts.

 

[koilife]

Nice to see you back @koilife. I’ve missed your posts.

Hard to keep good man down. Impossible with a bad one.

And, yes, nice to be back and see some of the old, familiar avatars.

 

[Kiwi-family]

Might I suggest you read “Chasing Francis” by Ian Morgan Cron?
And maybe my daughter’s rabbit has a sign for you:

 

[Ferdinand the Bull]

Telboyo

Here is a different take on your post for you to mull over.

You finished your Camino - Fantastic achievement! You did it your way. Great

You finished High School - Well done.

Twenty-two years in the RAF. We thank you for your service. That's a long time and you should be proud.

Fifteen years - drifting from one job to another - What's wrong with that? Think of all the experience and knowledge you've gained. Good on you.

You seem to have lived a good life and have achieved a lot.

When you say, no real target - do you mean goals? You seem to be very target / goal oriented, absolutely nothing wrong with that, but am I sensing that you'd like to be less so and more living in the moment? Yes/No?

Yes - another Camino is a must for you.

One that is different. No point in repeating more of the same and feeling the same way. How about one where there is no strict time limit, one where you dawdle along, one where you do different things like go to a Pilgrims mass, visit a museum, sit in a field for an hour watching life and pilgrims pass you by. Take your time and visit those wonderful cafe's, try different food.

There is much wrong with the world, but there is much beauty and sometimes it is easy to ignore the beauty and let the wrongness take away or dim our light.

Unfortunately, being angry won't change the world, but it will change you and generally not in a good way unless you can do something about whatever it is that is making you feel this way.

Talking about your feelings on this forum is a good thing. There is so much wisdom and experience in reading what others on this forum have said. I am constantly astounded by the wisdom of fellow forum members and by the quotes that forum posters often allude to. It makes me feel and be very humble, so your honest post has a good purpose and you probably didn't realise this at the time.

You may find that it is nice to talk to someone remote from you who listens to and guides people on this path called life.

After I was made redundant, I spent many hours talking with a psychologist who helped me process my life a lot. I took up Wing Chun Kung Fu at age 58 for many years and this helped me find a stillness, peace and I guess a non-religious spirituality in myself that I'd never known before. I also do some volunteer work, to give a little back to society. Walking several Caminos with my dear wife has made my life tingle with excitement, planning and talking about the past ones and planning the next one. There is something magical about long distance walking and something about meeting people from all walks of life along the way.

I too, like you have real concerns about religious organisations, but I've learned not to stress with things that I cannot control. Instead, I have learned to admire the beauty of religious creation and accept that whilst there is a lot wrong, there is also a lot of good that these organisations do for people as well.

Wishing you all the best

Graham

Wise Words. Well written.

 

[LesR]

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

My two bobs' worth - by all means walk the Camino again, but keep your expectations in check...

It may give you the space for you to come to terms with something that has troubled you - I too noted the wealth of the church then and even now, and contrasted that with what I suspect to have been the life on many of the parishioners of the day (and, like one of the characters in the filmy "The Way", my view is that the church has a lot to answer for in todays society...).

The Camino itself is unlikely to provide you with any answers but it may give you the time and space to come to terms with some rather damning injustices that you cannot change.

I found that walking some parts of the Camino became a fairly mechanical process which the legs were able to manage without a lot of input from the mind. As a consequence, my mind was free to wander where it would - in this process, I found a way forward on something that had been bugging me for 45 years.

As many of other respondents have suggested, maybe do it again but take it slowly and value the journey...

 

[Via2010]

Don't expect a miracle to happen during the camino or immediately after return, but allow things to develop.

This worked well for me on various occasions.

For example, in 2006 I was really upset that all efforts to get pregnant had failed so far. But then the Camino taught me that life can be worth living even without children and that my destiny is probably to help other people´s children (which my actual profession allows). Also, if I had become pregnant it would have been very difficult to return on the camino for the next 10-12 years.

Three years later I suffered very much under the conditions I was faced with at my work. When I abandoned the idea of changing something I was faced with a very interesting offer. Not knowing where this might lead to, I accepet and everything developped to my fullest satisfaction.

Again last year, I suffered from the ambitions of a colleague with whom I had to work together very closely. He questioned everything that I had known for sure before. I thought that I could not rely on my knowledge any longer and I was very desperate. But again, when returning things changed in an unexpected manner. Two other colleagues retired and nobody wanted to resume their job. But so did I and I feel very happy with the new tasks.

BC
Alexandra

 

[Delphinoula]

Tel,
Anger has a function. You angry about all those hypocrites?
Moneymakers ,schemers, cons fraughts. Well done.
No earth shaking world moving events? You right again. As you see it at this moment.
Ask yourself did whatever you did in your past life not leave a trace with you?

Just having finished a section of my last Camino I cannot tell you anything at this moment about what it did for me to me with me. nada niente nix.
If asked I tell them the easy answer. It was relaxing. No it was not, but I cannot tell them anything so personal, what I do not know yet.
But knowing me I will need time to see what I may see.

So in time you will too.
Drifting is just another word for flying or sailing or sliding, it implies movement.
And with some ancient Greek philosophers . All flows Panta rei.

 

[RumAndChupacabras]

@Telboyo, when the day comes that something "Camino" starts to click... I hope you'll be able to share it with all those who've shared (some really!) personal stuff with you.
Hmmm...wait, I guess you already did.
Buen (life) Camino

 

[Derrybiketours]

Amazing insight from Telboyo but worth noting that although op is looking for an insight and purpose maybe this post is the beginning of that journey. I for one have enjoyed reading all of the other contributors on this thread and despite the late night screen shots of inspirational quotes it brings back memories of my own journey and for that I would like to thank everyone. This forum is a continuation of what the Camino was and is for me, a people path of positive intention. I experienced more than I could ever hope for and there's a question mark over whether or not to return and in many ways a less eventful experience interpreted by the Op makes the decision easier for him to return and it can only get better. I would recommend the Portuguese Coastal Route, ignore way markers, keep ocean to left, create your own signs, avoid resistance and follow your flow

 

[jo webber]

Telboyo the Drifter,

Walk again. Drift without a goal. Walk as if you are homeless, no expectations, no plans, no roots.

Go slow. Walk without goals. Look around you, look back, look at your feet on the path. Take the time to see, you have time.

Anger is a very heavy stone to carry. Your anger sounds like many small stones picked up along the way of your life. I hope you are able to forgive and let go of some of the stones.

Go into the churches. Imagine the life of the man who made the statues. Think of his skill, his effort to give his best, A church is a place of art and history, a place where you might connect to a builder or maker of the past. You are a maker of the present. Forget the religion.

You are still on your Camino, because you question.

 

[Mmeggait]

Telboyo

Here is a different take on your post for you to mull over.

You finished your Camino - Fantastic achievement! You did it your way. Great

You finished High School - Well done.

Twenty-two years in the RAF. We thank you for your service. That's a long time and you should be proud.

Fifteen years - drifting from one job to another - What's wrong with that? Think of all the experience and knowledge you've gained. Good on you.

You seem to have lived a good life and have achieved a lot.

When you say, no real target - do you mean goals? You seem to be very target / goal oriented, absolutely nothing wrong with that, but am I sensing that you'd like to be less so and more living in the moment? Yes/No?

Yes - another Camino is a must for you.

One that is different. No point in repeating more of the same and feeling the same way. How about one where there is no strict time limit, one where you dawdle along, one where you do different things like go to a Pilgrims mass, visit a museum, sit in a field for an hour watching life and pilgrims pass you by. Take your time and visit those wonderful cafe's, try different food.

There is much wrong with the world, but there is much beauty and sometimes it is easy to ignore the beauty and let the wrongness take away or dim our light.

Unfortunately, being angry won't change the world, but it will change you and generally not in a good way unless you can do something about whatever it is that is making you feel this way.

Talking about your feelings on this forum is a good thing. There is so much wisdom and experience in reading what others on this forum have said. I am constantly astounded by the wisdom of fellow forum members and by the quotes that forum posters often allude to. It makes me feel and be very humble, so your honest post has a good purpose and you probably didn't realise this at the time.

You may find that it is nice to talk to someone remote from you who listens to and guides people on this path called life.

After I was made redundant, I spent many hours talking with a psychologist who helped me process my life a lot. I took up Wing Chun Kung Fu at age 58 for many years and this helped me find a stillness, peace and I guess a non-religious spirituality in myself that I'd never known before. I also do some volunteer work, to give a little back to society. Walking several Caminos with my dear wife has made my life tingle with excitement, planning and talking about the past ones and planning the next one. There is something magical about long distance walking and something about meeting people from all walks of life along the way.

I too, like you have real concerns about religious organisations, but I've learned not to stress with things that I cannot control. Instead, I have learned to admire the beauty of religious creation and accept that whilst there is a lot wrong, there is also a lot of good that these organisations do for people as well.

Wishing you all the best

Graham

Love this Graham, thank you!

 

[Louise2016]

You sound like you are a forward thinker, which isn't bad, but I have a feeling that you already know the outcome before it happens. I dont mean that you are psychic, but more a self fulfilling prophecy kind of thing. Since what you are looking for are changes inside yourself, i.e. get to Santiago and feel a certain way, I think it is inside yourself where you have to go. Buen camino.

 

[Kay.V]

Telboyo, I can relate to your post in a 'same but different' kind of way.

I was hoping to find all the answers to something that had been troubling me. This would happen, I figured, once I laid my stone at Cruz do Ferro. I realised before reaching Burgos that I already had the answer and had had it for days - I had been walking with a sense of peace that I hadnt known for a long time. The Camino didnt sort the thing out for me per se, rather, I found the answers when walking on the camino. I am finding that we are seeing subtle changes still, a year after we walked. For us, walking form SJPDP to Roncesvalles nearly broke us, but it didnt and in every day life I feel - and I remind my children who also walked - that we are much stronger than we think. It wasn't some grand epiphany but we are changed in such subtle ways. It always brings a smile to my face when I realise this.

Should you walk the Camino to rid the anger? Perhaps. Only you can answer that. I am often asked why we are walking the Camino again when there is so much more to see. I say 'to get it right'. They laugh at me and think I am being frivolous. But it is true - I really do have a sense of getting it right this time around, and my family all agree. It was hard - physically, mentally and spritually. On our next walk we will be so much more prepared - and I dont mean just the long preparatory walks. - Something different.

I hope you find your peace.

I have just recently, (10 days ago) finished the CF, when I arrived in SDC I was underwhelmed, (the disenchantment started in Sarria) It felt like a friday. "Oh good , that month is over time to move on. "
Just a drifter!
This has been the story of my life:
Finished High School - What's Next
Joined the RAF by mistake, only went to the careers office to keep my parents off my back! - 22 years preparing, training, repairing and loading aircraft for war, despatched as a technician on helicopter fleets to humanitarian missions etc. Job done! What is next.

Last 15 years I have continued drifting between aircraft maintenance and other less skilled mundane jobs.
So when I hear people say "The Camino will Provide" I think " Life always provides, what is so special"

I have met many people who swear that the Camino changed their life, I don't have that feeling yet, but whilst in Sarria I purchased a 2nd credencial because I thought I would run out of stamp squares, I didn't need it as I had 1 square spare. In the last 10 days I have been trying to process my experience over those 26 days from SJPP to SDC. I think I walked too fast as evidenced by the need to stop for 2 full days in Burgos due to foot problems.

I walked the Camino with real intent, (intent to finish) perhaps too much, but it has not helped to stop my driftyness, is the spare credencial a sign that I should do another Camino in the same manner as my life, as a drifter with no real target?

All through my Camino I felt "odd" because I did not visit any Churches, although I went to a C of E school I am not a practising Christian like the vast majority of British people, for the last 15 years I have been a practising Druid (I have only met Druids who have completed the Camino some of them walked it 15 years ago) I lost faith with the Church back in 1999, I was on a technical course in Rome and decided to check out the tourist sites so popped into the Vatican, every time I reminisce about this trip I feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, those poor mites live in poverty compared to the Holy See.
15 years later I was visiting a friend who lives in the Pyrenees and we went on a day trip to Lourdes, beautiful church, but why do they need to have list the donors on special tiles on the entrance to the church? This is OK for a new football stadium but not for a House of God. When I walked past the grotto I was more shocked, it was possible to buy a candle to light to pray for your loved one, no problem with that, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 euro donation that is OK. But why do the people who pay more get a bigger candle? Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

First I want to thank you for being so bravely honest about sharing your experience. Anger is often called a secondary emotion that stems from either fear or grief or any other significant core belief or emotion because we tend to resort to anger in order to protect ourselves from or cover up our underlying vulnerability. Know that there is no good or bad experience just as there is no right or wrong way to do it. It just "is" the way it is. It's been said many times that the camino actually is a metaphor for life and in many ways it can become a reflection of our own.
These days I find that people have such high expectations - for others, themselves, for how things should go or turn out to be. I think in this age of technology where we can literally connect with the world and be exposed to so many people with their own unique stories and experiences, this ancient tale of a "pilgrimage transforming your life" can create unreasonable expectations. While I do believe that there are pilgrims who have had what is called an "epiphany" or some kind of life-changing experience along the way, I still think that for the majority of them the changes are much more subtle and mostly even happening once they returned home. I had questions about myself, purpose and life in general and you know what?.. I returned with even more questions to ponder on. However, the camino works in mysterious ways (no pun intended ) and I have found the answers have come full circle throughout the year. But even this may not be the case for everyone...

While it certainly is imperative to know where you are going, to have the destination in mind, pilgrimage is all about the experience you live along the way. The proverbial "the juice is in the journey" may be the intention to go with here if you intend to walk again.

A quote from Paulo Coelho, who wrote "the pilgrimage" may come as a wake-up call but his words hold meaning; "Life teaches us more than the road does, but we don't have much faith in what life teaches us". In other words, the camino might not teach us more than we can learn from our own daily lives, but it will surely provide space and time to contemplate and leave us some memorable gifts (and pics ) if we choose to slow down to see and accept them. Wishing you all the best.

 

[Thornley]

In the last 10 days I have been trying to process my experience over those 26 days from SJPP to SDC. I think I walked too fast as evidenced by the need to stop for 2 full days in Burgos due to foot problems.

I walked the Camino with real intent, (intent to finish) perhaps too much, but it has not helped to stop my driftyness, is the spare credencial a sign that I should do another Camino in the same manner as my life, as a drifter with no real target?

First paragraph .......
I think you hurried Telboyo and failed to take it in , the interaction with other people from all walks of life ...the pious ,the too bobbers , the humble , the lonely , those walking for a loved one , those having their LAST walk [ illness] those on holidays etc etc etc ......they were all there mate , each day , did you have a yarn with any?
Second .......
I would love you to walk the Primitivo and when you join all those crowds @ Ponferrada turn LEFT and continue on the Invierno.
These walks require a slowness , especially in April / May.
The less commercial towns/ cities / villages have people who admire your effort .......talk to the oldies in the cafe/bar .....thats where i get my advice from . The Lawyers , Doctors and all other graduates know very little when the finish Uni .........it's learnt on their road after graduation , and i believe our lives are like that....wise words and great stories from the oldies in these villages , we just have to seek
You are a good man Telboyo and hope the following proves i'm not a lecturer;
I reclined on the floor of the Sistine Chapel , surrounded by Japanese who covered for me and took a photo. After Puenta La Reina i never paid for another candle , not when it costs a few euros to turn on the lights.
And 10 years ago on the wall in an open seat in SDC [ 8am mass] i joined a young dignified priest who i found out spoke very little english [ languages spoken was above him , i didn't look ] told him it was 20 yrs since my last and pleaded guilty to breaking all Commandments except the 4th.
He looked at me , smiled , touched his temple [ thoughts ] and pointed to his lips [ words ] and then i smiled.
He knew what i meant ... Thoughts , Words or Deeds ........i'd done most.
He was kind , i heard amongst his words "no problems", a tap on me knee and then absolution.
I had a bit of " toughen up moment " as my kids would say ...... a 60 year old sook in public.
This simple , humble Priest got me back to just believing in the good that exists in us all , even the Church.

Whenever i hear some one complaining in our family about" nothing" i ask them would they like to accompany me and have a look around the casualty department of The Children's Hospital.
So get into it Telboyo , whatever in the past stays there and enjoy this bloody very short life we have.

Buen Camino
PS
And don't boo our boys in The Ashes.

 

[Thomas Yingst]

I have just recently, (10 days ago) finished the CF, when I arrived in SDC I was underwhelmed, (the disenchantment started in Sarria) It felt like a friday. "Oh good , that month is over time to move on. "
Just a drifter!
This has been the story of my life:
Finished High School - What's Next
Joined the RAF by mistake, only went to the careers office to keep my parents off my back! - 22 years preparing, training, repairing and loading aircraft for war, despatched as a technician on helicopter fleets to humanitarian missions etc. Job done! What is next.

Last 15 years I have continued drifting between aircraft maintenance and other less skilled mundane jobs.
So when I hear people say "The Camino will Provide" I think " Life always provides, what is so special"

I have met many people who swear that the Camino changed their life, I don't have that feeling yet, but whilst in Sarria I purchased a 2nd credencial because I thought I would run out of stamp squares, I didn't need it as I had 1 square spare. In the last 10 days I have been trying to process my experience over those 26 days from SJPP to SDC. I think I walked too fast as evidenced by the need to stop for 2 full days in Burgos due to foot problems.

I walked the Camino with real intent, (intent to finish) perhaps too much, but it has not helped to stop my driftyness, is the spare credencial a sign that I should do another Camino in the same manner as my life, as a drifter with no real target?

All through my Camino I felt "odd" because I did not visit any Churches, although I went to a C of E school I am not a practising Christian like the vast majority of British people, for the last 15 years I have been a practising Druid (I have only met Druids who have completed the Camino some of them walked it 15 years ago) I lost faith with the Church back in 1999, I was on a technical course in Rome and decided to check out the tourist sites so popped into the Vatican, every time I reminisce about this trip I feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, those poor mites live in poverty compared to the Holy See.
15 years later I was visiting a friend who lives in the Pyrenees and we went on a day trip to Lourdes, beautiful church, but why do they need to have list the donors on special tiles on the entrance to the church? This is OK for a new football stadium but not for a House of God. When I walked past the grotto I was more shocked, it was possible to buy a candle to light to pray for your loved one, no problem with that, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 euro donation that is OK. But why do the people who pay more get a bigger candle? Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

The answer is blowing in the wind.

 

[Nanc]

I see some interesting answers in your own comments
“Life always provides”...so it’s not that the Camino is any different than life , but that knowing that life provides can actually be a joyous happy thought and not a cynical one
I don’t believe the Camino reveals or delivers anything the walker wasn’t ready to have revealed
So if you walk through the Camino in 26 days intending nothing but getting through it, you have accomplished your goal

Many people have several work lives of different careers or just different jobs
I personally know one young lady who did a stint in every service from army to navy to coast guard to marine, then worked in vet field for a couple of years then became an assistant coroner and last I heard was in a reality survivor show
SHE LOVED AND EMBRACED EVERY ITERATION
The “now what” was an exciting question for her

So a job can be “meh” or it can be an exciting exploration of the people, the life the experience etc even in line work or trash clean up

I wasn’t a church goer in the Camino ( in fact, I felt guilty that I was somehow being less cultured but truth told, I got burnt out on gold statues and wooden staircases) but I DID suck up every breath, every tired muscle , every strong step, every shadow every sun beam every flavor of coffee and tortilla .’being present”’ is what I gave myself on the Camino

And my take on a bigger candle for more money is a bigger candle takes more wax and costs more . Applying a bigger spiritual value to a bigger candle is a human thing. Not one I subscribe to, so nothing lost if someone buys a smaller candle. It is also a human thing to think a candle that burns out more quickly or being smaller is some how less powerful or less heard by god than a bigger one.

So you ask of the anger and only you can tell if this is about anger, or not, or even why.

But I do see you have had many choices in your life and have lived many moments and one of your choices is whether to see those moments, really jump in and embrace them, warts and all, and walk away with a Hah! But lived it awake
I would be interested to know where your next choice takes you

 

[MichaelB10398]

I have just recently, (10 days ago) finished the CF, when I arrived in SDC I was underwhelmed, (the disenchantment started in Sarria) It felt like a friday. "Oh good , that month is over time to move on. "
Just a drifter!
This has been the story of my life:
Finished High School - What's Next
Joined the RAF by mistake, only went to the careers office to keep my parents off my back! - 22 years preparing, training, repairing and loading aircraft for war, despatched as a technician on helicopter fleets to humanitarian missions etc. Job done! What is next.

Last 15 years I have continued drifting between aircraft maintenance and other less skilled mundane jobs.
So when I hear people say "The Camino will Provide" I think " Life always provides, what is so special"

I have met many people who swear that the Camino changed their life, I don't have that feeling yet, but whilst in Sarria I purchased a 2nd credencial because I thought I would run out of stamp squares, I didn't need it as I had 1 square spare. In the last 10 days I have been trying to process my experience over those 26 days from SJPP to SDC. I think I walked too fast as evidenced by the need to stop for 2 full days in Burgos due to foot problems.

I walked the Camino with real intent, (intent to finish) perhaps too much, but it has not helped to stop my driftyness, is the spare credencial a sign that I should do another Camino in the same manner as my life, as a drifter with no real target?

All through my Camino I felt "odd" because I did not visit any Churches, although I went to a C of E school I am not a practising Christian like the vast majority of British people, for the last 15 years I have been a practising Druid (I have only met Druids who have completed the Camino some of them walked it 15 years ago) I lost faith with the Church back in 1999, I was on a technical course in Rome and decided to check out the tourist sites so popped into the Vatican, every time I reminisce about this trip I feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, those poor mites live in poverty compared to the Holy See.
15 years later I was visiting a friend who lives in the Pyrenees and we went on a day trip to Lourdes, beautiful church, but why do they need to have list the donors on special tiles on the entrance to the church? This is OK for a new football stadium but not for a House of God. When I walked past the grotto I was more shocked, it was possible to buy a candle to light to pray for your loved one, no problem with that, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 euro donation that is OK. But why do the people who pay more get a bigger candle? Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Hello and greetings,
I have known angry people before, but I have known each of them for rather extended periods. It is your responsibility to know yourself and if you see something you don't like, seek to change it.
Your choice of religion is personal; do and practice what feels right for you. My thoughts are, I am first and foremost a student of truth regardless of where it is found. I am humbled by the sacred and have found the sacred in many parts of the world, each with its own religion. Yet, I only have one Master and in him resides all truth regardless of how it is practiced by humans on this mortal world.
I have stood in awe in St. Peter's Cathedral and I have stood in awe standing on the bank of a wee creek whilst looking at the wonders of nature. I do not begrudge the work of human hands to glorify God any more than I begrudge a small mouse that pilfers from my seed grain. It amazes me that some are so easily offended. I have learned that humans can be offended at almost anything. Taking offense seems to have more to do with the individual than the "thing".
I think the Camino is for everyone. I remember an old story of the Buddha teaching three of his students. He pulled a rose bush up by the roots. All three were stunned that he would do so. The first told him to beware of the thorns; the second told him to beware of getting dirty by the soil from the roots; the third, said, "Master, what a beautiful rose flower." The Buddha then responded to each of them, "You will always find what you seek - he stripped the bush of thorns and gave them to the first, the second he shook all the dirt from the roots into the student's open hands, and the last, he gave a most exquisite rose blossom."
Should you go on Camino again; or enter St. Peter's, or go to Lourdes, pay attention to what notice. Be aware of the things to which your eyes and mind are drawn. Then, redirect them to those most exquisite rose blossoms you will find all around you. In doing so, you will find that perception is everything.
May the sun always shine upon your face. Buen Camino

 

[Ferdinand the Bull]

I really like this thread. There is so much wisdom, food for thought and reflection here. Thanks to Telboyo for starting it and thanks to all contributors. You have given me so much to think about.

 

[Deleted member 73892]

This post has aroused many people in diferent ways and perspectives, and there are some interesting responses for you to consider. As a guy involved with serious technical stuff and so has to be thorough I expect you will read all posts and advice. Some people seem disappointed for you, others in agreement and offering empathy. When I read your post I just smiled and thought here's a real pilgrim, one of many, on the pilgrim way seeking answers and enlightenment (which isn't always/doesn't have to be religious).
Your responses to your achievement (don't knock it, you completed the C. Francés, not everyone does), are all expressions of someone looking for answers to many deep-rooted questions as to the expectations and experiences of life. There is something deep within you generating your frustration and search. My feeling is that you've been on Camino for a long time, and the Francés became a part of that. Life is all about questionning, searching, and I find the most interesting people are the ones who do just that - seek the meaning of spirituality, religion, how we relate to it on a personal level, our brief existance, answers to our pain, joy, anger, hope, prayers, frustrations.
The Camino Francés has affected you, has touched you, has stirred your emotions and effected you subconsciously. Its obvious from your comments. It doesn't have to be all wham-bam spiritual upliftment on the Way to or arrival at Santiago. It can be the opposite, which is a response in itself. Don't see it as a negative experience and chill, look for the less obvious and subtle things in people, the Way, yourself. I wish you well on your life's Camino, where ever it may take you. The one thing that has helped me the most is taking my time on Camino, and time to meet people, talk with them, listen, open-up about myself and life, and that way I have found many answers from strangers who cross my path perhaps once or twice, but they seem to cross it for a reason. Good luck and best wishes. Keith

 

[Moorwalker]

You say that you are now a Druid - I only mention this as you did - but there is no such thing in the sense of a lineage with real Druids. They had no written language so have left us nothing of their beliefs, understandings, or practises so a modern 'Druid' is just a person dressed up in a costume playing at reality.

I very much agree with most of your post but I would to some extent disagree with the statement I've clipped above. The same argument can be made for those who call themselves Wiccans or Pagans, yet for those people their particular philosophy can be illuminating and educational. if you really want to argue the point, modern Christianity was effectively constructed in the 3rd century by a committee of men who chose which writings, which translations and interpretations, and which parts of the records they wanted to shape their religion. The fact that it happened many hundreds of years ago doesn't change the fact that in some ways it was similar to the modern Druids and Pagans in that it is a constructed religion based on past events and thoughts, nor does it make it any less special now.

Having said that, and speaking as someone who is not religious, the Camino can bring something positive to almost anyone who is open to it. Walking in that way strips away what is trivial and give you the time and space to appreciate the things that are often hidden in normal life. And the effects can be long lasting as several people have said above. Once you've stepped outside of mundanity for a little while you never entirely lose the knowledge that there is more than just the usual routine of modern life.

 

[steve 217]

This Post resonates with lots of people because by its very nature the Camino will appeal to those who seek adventure or a meaning to something in or perceived to be lacking from their lives.
My own experience on the Camino for what its worth was very simple ,i set off too quickly in too much of a panic ,cluttered with thoughts and expectations as to what the Camino would bring.
I walked so quickly one day i literally fell over my own feet and a fellow traveler who was sat looking at the view made me realise its not the destination its not the goal its the journey . Revel in the hours of contemplation solitary or otherwise which the simple act of putting one foot in front of the other allows you.
The Camino for me allowed me to speak to the person i always wanted to be .
Whether i brought that person back with me i dont know , those around me could only answer that but i do know that whilst i agree that the Camino is becoming more commercial and is losing something i am constantly called back to it and am the worlds biggest Camino bore .
The fact that we are all discussing the post tells us how much the Camino actually means to us whatever it actually represents . Buen Camino

 

[David]

I very much agree with most of your post but I would to some extent disagree with the statement I've clipped above. The same argument can be made for those who call themselves Wiccans or Pagans, yet for those people their particular philosophy can be illuminating and educational. if you really want to argue the point, modern Christianity was effectively constructed in the 3rd century by a committee of men who chose which writings, which translations and interpretations, and which parts of the records they wanted to shape their religion. The fact that it happened many hundreds of years ago doesn't change the fact that in some ways it was similar to the modern Druids and Pagans in that it is a constructed religion based on past events and thoughts, nor does it make it any less special now.

Having said that, and speaking as someone who is not religious, the Camino can bring something positive to almost anyone who is open to it. Walking in that way strips away what is trivial and give you the time and space to appreciate the things that are often hidden in normal life. And the effects can be long lasting as several people have said above. Once you've stepped outside of mundanity for a little while you never entirely lose the knowledge that there is more than just the usual routine of modern life.

Of course, all religions are constructed, and when they move into new cultures they adopt or transform and integrate existing beliefs and practises - it is what humans do. But all religions have lineage that they use and call upon - the creation of modern 4thC Christianity, that of Rome, didn't arrive out of a vacuum. Yes, I too find all beliefs can be both illuminating and to some degree educational but my point re Druids was that there is no lineage at all, none, therefore they are a very modern hippy-era creation - post or neo Druids if you will.
Although well retired now my degree was in religions and theology and my main area of interest was (and still is really) the development of early Christianity ... fascinating first few hundred years (to me ) .. but .....

Here is a thing - the whole modern Wicca, witchcraft thing going on ... back in the 1950's the Encyclopedia Brittannica decided to include an entry for witchcraft and after scouting around and finding no one who knew anything about it they hired a woman, an amateur historian, who said that she did, which was a complete bluff, she just thought that she could research it and find information. All she found was one letter from Scotland saying that a witch's coven was 13 in number, that was all she found, so, knowing that no one else knew anything she just made up the whole entry, which they printed, and ALL witchcraft, wicca, knowledge descends and has been expanded from that false entry.

Of Druids all we have, apart from a few romantic Irish songs that are not clear, is that written by Julius Caeser who mentions that the Celt warriors were reincarnationists and would lend a war pony before a battle on the condition that were they killed they would return it in a future life, and that the Druids were barbaric, cruel, and savage, making wicker containers and burning their own people and captives alive .. the Romans, brutal enough, thought they were so cruel and savage that they hunted them down and killed them to free the Celts from their influence - that is all we know.

So - modern Wiccans, Pagans, Druids ... they are all un-thought out and their practises go back to the faintest memories of the barbaric and ancient days of sacrifices, the remnants we see in the bonfires, as well as fictional modern films ... whereas a religion with lineage has (or should have) a deep understanding of the nature of being. I have spoken with many of the new-age practitioners, attended their rituals, observed, and I have found nothing of depth ... the first level of consciousness of 'religion' or 'something beyond' is magic, which is what they think they do, but the species has progressed far beyond that level and therefore I stand as I wrote - it is merely dressing up in costumes .. beautiful, yes, fun, yes, but of no significance, don't you think?

 

[longwalker60]

I have just recently, (10 days ago) finished the CF, when I arrived in SDC I was underwhelmed, (the disenchantment started in Sarria) It felt like a friday. "Oh good , that month is over time to move on. "
Just a drifter!
This has been the story of my life:
Finished High School - What's Next
Joined the RAF by mistake, only went to the careers office to keep my parents off my back! - 22 years preparing, training, repairing and loading aircraft for war, despatched as a technician on helicopter fleets to humanitarian missions etc. Job done! What is next.

Last 15 years I have continued drifting between aircraft maintenance and other less skilled mundane jobs.
So when I hear people say "The Camino will Provide" I think " Life always provides, what is so special"

I have met many people who swear that the Camino changed their life, I don't have that feeling yet, but whilst in Sarria I purchased a 2nd credencial because I thought I would run out of stamp squares, I didn't need it as I had 1 square spare. In the last 10 days I have been trying to process my experience over those 26 days from SJPP to SDC. I think I walked too fast as evidenced by the need to stop for 2 full days in Burgos due to foot problems.

I walked the Camino with real intent, (intent to finish) perhaps too much, but it has not helped to stop my driftyness, is the spare credencial a sign that I should do another Camino in the same manner as my life, as a drifter with no real target?

All through my Camino I felt "odd" because I did not visit any Churches, although I went to a C of E school I am not a practising Christian like the vast majority of British people, for the last 15 years I have been a practising Druid (I have only met Druids who have completed the Camino some of them walked it 15 years ago) I lost faith with the Church back in 1999, I was on a technical course in Rome and decided to check out the tourist sites so popped into the Vatican, every time I reminisce about this trip I feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates, those poor mites live in poverty compared to the Holy See.
15 years later I was visiting a friend who lives in the Pyrenees and we went on a day trip to Lourdes, beautiful church, but why do they need to have list the donors on special tiles on the entrance to the church? This is OK for a new football stadium but not for a House of God. When I walked past the grotto I was more shocked, it was possible to buy a candle to light to pray for your loved one, no problem with that, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 euro donation that is OK. But why do the people who pay more get a bigger candle? Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Should I walk the camino again to rid me of my anger or am I barking up the wrong tree?

The camino is different for everyone. I believe it starts with why? Why did you walk, What were you looking for? Im a catholic, although not practicing. I do practice and try to live a spiritual life. Some of my best insights was when I was conversing with other walkers, who were atheists, Buddhists, Priest... I guess, for me, the camino is something akin to oneself,; I have completed the walk in October, and have felt a growing need and desire to do some type of walk again. I also feel so blessed to have taken the walk. The camino has never left me, yet I feel a pull towards it. I do believe nothing happens out of circumstance. There is a reason why you walked, and I pray you find it. Buen Camino

 

[lizlane]

@Telboyo I have read and reread your post. I think you should walk again if you have the means too and here is why:

You completed a five week journey in TWENTY-FOUR DAYS, not counting the two days you took off to rest. It sounds like to me you pushed yourself too hard because you were afraid that you wouldn't finish it or would lapse into "drifting". EMBRACE your inner drifter on your next Camino. Amble along and you might accidentally stumble onto your inner destiny.

To borrow a phrase from the 12-Step Movement:
"We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny. May God bless you and keep you - until then"

For me every time I hear or think on this phrase, I am reminded of the Camino. Trudge means to walk with purpose but it is a very tiring-sounding verb and almost links in my mind to tedious. But all the best things in life come with work. Marriage, children, finding our place in this sea of humanity. Take the metaphor of Jacob wrestling with an angel. According to the story he became injured because he would not stop until he had been blessed by God. You can read Wikipedia's account here:

Jacob wrestling with the angel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I learned alot reading this article but I brought it up purely to use a metaphor, not to witness to you. When we begin our search for truth and meaning, we get injured. Sometimes it is by the hypocrisy of believers (like your example with the candles and tiles), sometimes it is by our own hand (like deciding there must be something wrong with us or shame over deeds we will not forgive ourselves of). But we are called to contend with these questions, to keep fighting for the truth, insisting on being blessed with knowledge or joy or freedom, let alone any other thing we may need for our spiritual growth. We have the right to be on this journey regardless of our religious affiliation. Here on this forum and in Spain, that journey is a physical and metaphysical one.

So when I hear people say "The Camino will Provide" I think " Life always provides, what is so special"

Of all the things you wrote, this quote troubles me for you. For all your magical leanings you go on to acknowledge you are disenchanted. Which tells me that perhaps connecting with the magic of being fully alive is where you need to focus. Life is a miracle. So are the stars in the sky. So is the kindness of a stranger. I think you just walked too quickly from one place to the next without allowing yourself the time to be fully present at any one place. Your rest days in Burgos gave you time to contemplate the things you did not like but I suspect the pain of your injuries may have colored your experience too. I know when I finally get to walk I will not be comfortable in the big cities. My happy place is going to be the rural paths, the small villages, the scenic expanse of the ground I've covered and have yet to cover. I wish you well and hope you do not give up. Keep contending. Like the X Files, the truth is OUT there but it's also within!

 

[Delphinoula]

Hi Tel just an update this came to me being from a more or less windswept sort of plant to the feeling of kinship to this tree

 

[Deleted member 73526]

Here is a thing - the whole modern Wicca, witchcraft thing going on ... back in the 1950's the Encyclopedia Brittannica decided to include an entry for witchcraft and after scouting around and finding no one who knew anything about it they hired a woman, an amateur historian, who said that she did, which was a complete bluff, she just thought that she could research it and find information. All she found was one letter from Scotland saying that a witch's coven was 13 in number, that was all she found, so, knowing that no one else knew anything she just made up the whole entry, which they printed, and ALL witchcraft, wicca, knowledge descends and has been expanded from that false entry.

You’re referring to Margaret Murray, who wrote the Encyclopedia Brittanica entry on witchcraft in 1929. Her one source for the number of witches in a coven was from the record of a Scottish trial.
For sure, EB and others who regarded her as the authority on the subject should be embarrassed.
I am not an expert on the subject but I gotta guess that Wiccans would disagree with your statement that all knowledge about it stems from that one source.