In Defense of Booking Com

[peregrina2000]

I am also in the camp that tries to avoid booking.com. But at some point, the convenience factor is just too great, though this happens mainly while traveling as a tourist. Just recently, I took a two week drive around Portugal, mostly in small towns. I wanted to have reservations. I tried contacting places directly. Most of those who responded wanted a bank transfer as a deposit. That is a real problem for US travelers, because our banks haven’t gotten the memo that explains that most of the world operates this way. I get a few free transfers every year and then the charge is $35 or more. Others wanted my CC number, sent to them via email. That’s another deal breaker, because that’s not secure. So I fell back on the ease of booking with booking and was careful to explain why to the owners of the small places where I stayed once I got there.

I will say that, to a one, they told me they feel they HAVE to use booking. It is not a weighing of pros and cons, it’s the sense that there is a gun to their head and they will lose a lot of business if they are not on it.

One owner told me that he gives booking customers the “worst” rooms, but that since I had explained myself and since my husband had limited mobility he would make an exception for me. I later asked in a couple of places whether that was their practice as well, and it seemed to be the case. It is true that some (mostly large) hotels distinguish rooms on the basis of the amenities offered, but some of these small places just charge one price, and for those the booking customers got the less attractive room — the smaller room, the room without a balcony, the darker room, etc.

I think this is much less an issue for big chain hotels. I had made reservations for two nights in Porto and when we arrived, I told them we wanted to add a night. They told me just to do it via booking that it was easier for them.

Not sure this adds much to the discussion, but I do wrestle with this when I travel.

 

[Viva Terlingua]

I will say that, to a one, they told me they feel they HAVE to use booking. It is not a weighing of pros and cons, it’s the sense that there is a gun to their head and they will lose a lot of business if they are not on it.

Same thing could be said of accepting credit cards. Or having a website. Or providing wifi for your guests. As consumer expectations evolve businesses must adapt or fade away. It's that way in any industry.

 

[Former member 92300]

One owner told me that he gives booking customers the “worst” rooms, but that since I had explained myself and since my husband had limited mobility he would make an exception for me. I later asked in a couple of places whether that was their practice as well, and it seemed to be the case. It is true that some (mostly large) hotels distinguish rooms on the basis of the amenities offered, but some of these small places just charge one price, and for those the booking customers got the less attractive room — the smaller room, the room without a balcony, the darker room, etc.

My opinion - but to punish someone for using a booking service is not cool. Not everyone knows how to reach out directly to owners. Not everyone knows that it costs owners to use booking companies.

 

[Viva Terlingua]

My opinion - but to punish someone for using a booking service is not cool. Not everyone knows how to reach out directly to owners. Not everyone knows that it costs owners to use booking companies.

Not very good business either as those people will be leaving reviews on booking.com

 

[pepi]

I come back on my earlier comment in this thread:
What would it take, to set up a website with a Magento shop for payment by CC and PayPal?
A simple over the thumb calculation:
(a) 50 participating Albergues with 1000 bookings annually @ 12 Euro per bed = 600K € @ 10% commission = 60K €.
(b) 50K reservations by pilgrims, each one paying 2€ per transaction = 100K €.
Total revenue 160K €.
Ideally, someone with an existing site like Gronze, or, why not, caminodesantiago.me, should look into this. It would create a handsome side-income.
I don't know Ivar's age, but at 60, I would do it, pity I have 20 more than that.

PS: A crowdfunding with some early-bird perks surely would generate enough start-up capital...!!!

 

[Kathor1]

One owner told me that he gives booking customers the “worst” rooms [...] I later asked in a couple of places whether that was their practice as well, and it seemed to be the case. [...] Not sure this adds much to the discussion

It does add to the discussion: This may perhaps change my mind and make me opt for direct booking instead of OTA booking. On the other hand, not all rooms can be the worst rooms, and the actual worst ones may be given to other OTA bookers and not to me ...

Now I am wondering about the two rooms I had been given (at two different locations on the way to Santiago) where the window of my room allowed me only to view a solid wall a few inches away from my face. One of them was in a hotel in Astorga, and out of curiosity I had a look on their website. First thing I see: Congratulations! You are about to book at the best rate! Up to 7 € cheaper than on Booking. And indeed, a quick verification shows that online booking of a double room for one night on December 2-3 on the hotel website is 7 € cheaper than on Booking.com which amounts to a difference of 8-9%. So at least some hotels do charge at least part of the commission to their OTA guests ...

 

[C clearly]

One owner told me that he gives booking customers the “worst” rooms,

I have no problem with this. Somebody has to get the worst room, and @Kathar1na has another good point...

not all rooms can be the worst rooms, and the actual worst ones may be given to other OTA bookers and not to me

 

[Former member 92300]

I have no problem with this. Somebody has to get the worst room, and @Kathar1na has another good point...

But nothing says you have to give all the worst rooms to those who book through booking sites. Why not simply hold off giving the worst room to the last to arrive or in the order the rooms were booked instead of discriminating based on which site someone booked from. It is one thing when you advertise rooms differently and someone knowingly selects the worst room to save money. It is another to be discriminated against simply because you used a booking site instead of booking directly.

 

[Tincatinker]

I think we all lost it somewhen around the time that we started thinking that a pilgrim had entitlements beyond shelter from the storm.
I also think that we lost something else when we began to let internet based companies sell us our freedom

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I am also in the camp that tries to avoid booking.com. But at some point, the convenience factor is just too great, though this happens mainly while traveling as a tourist. Just recently, I took a two week drive around Portugal, mostly in small towns. I wanted to have reservations. I tried contacting places directly. Most of those who responded wanted a bank transfer as a deposit. That is a real problem for US travelers, because our banks haven’t gotten the memo that explains that most of the world operates this way. I get a few free transfers every year and then the charge is $35 or more. Others wanted my CC number, sent to them via email. That’s another deal breaker, because that’s not secure. So I fell back on the ease of booking with booking and was careful to explain why to the owners of the small places where I stayed once I got there.

I will say that, to a one, they told me they feel they HAVE to use booking. It is not a weighing of pros and cons, it’s the sense that there is a gun to their head and they will lose a lot of business if they are not on it.

One owner told me that he gives booking customers the “worst” rooms, but that since I had explained myself and since my husband had limited mobility he would make an exception for me. I later asked in a couple of places whether that was their practice as well, and it seemed to be the case. It is true that some (mostly large) hotels distinguish rooms on the basis of the amenities offered, but some of these small places just charge one price, and for those the booking customers got the less attractive room — the smaller room, the room without a balcony, the darker room, etc.

I think this is much less an issue for big chain hotels. I had made reservations for two nights in Porto and when we arrived, I told them we wanted to add a night. They told me just to do it via booking that it was easier for them.

Not sure this adds much to the discussion, but I do wrestle with this when I travel.

No "worsrt" rooms in my experience.
On the Via Francigena last month we used booking.com., requesting rooms with window views, balconies, or terraces as the case may be. We were always obliged for no extra charge. Here are a few of our views, often sharing a bottle of wine...wonderful.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

So I fell back on the ease of booking with booking and was careful to explain why to the owners of the small places where I stayed once I got there.

Why must you need to have a conversation to explain about your decision to use booking.com...why must you be "careful"?

 

[trecile]

It seems crazy to me to give the worst rooms to those most likely to post a review!

 

[J Willhaus]

I almost never post reviews either good or bad.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I almost never post reviews either good or bad.

I never post reviews.

 

[AnneO]

Ha, I almost always post reviews! I rely so much on them when I book that I feel like I should contribute.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Ha, I almost always post reviews! I rely so much on them when I book that I feel like I should contribute.

Although I never leave reviews, I do appreciate those of you who do take the time, because I do read some of them which often helps me make a decision.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I sometimes leave reviews but hardly ever read them. I do give a cursory glance to the rating score and I think that's a fairly accurate indicator of the sort of place it is.

 

[J Willhaus]

I look more at the amenities list than reviews. Do they have a kitchen, washer, etc.

 

[dougfitz]

There was an interesting article on the ABC's Radio National this morning on the impact of price-parity clauses. You can find it here. Reference was made to work being done by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, the Digital platform services enquiry 2020-2025, which as its name suggests, is still underway. There have been a number of interesting reports, which can be accessed from the enquiry home page link above.

In looking at all of that, I found a proposed text from earlier this year for changes to the EU Digital Markets Act, here, that looks like it will stop the practice of digital platform service providers (eBay, Amazon, Booking.com, etc, etc) from implementing price parity provisions in their business terms. Clearly that text is still in an unapproved state, so I am wondering if it has progressed since it was released in July.

 

[Kathor1]

wondering if it has progressed since it was released in July

Fwiw, both the Digital Markets Act and the Digital Services Act entered into force in November 2022. The various measures and rules will become applicable over a longer period of time. The timelines are illustrated here:

The Digital Services Act package

The Digital Services Act and Digital Markets Act aim to create a safer digital space where the fundamental rights of users are protected and to establish a level playing field for businesses.

digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu

 

[WGroleau]

To be fair, they always add "on booking.com" or "on our site."

Maybe some sites do. Some don't.

 

[WGroleau]

Yes. And it's complicated. If they're not involved, a lot of business probably goes elsewhere, where it's more convenient. So it's 'choice' rather than choice - in the same way as someone being held hostage has 'choice.' Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

We were not on any online service, and not even in some of the guidebooks. But we still had to help pilgrims find something else many nights because we were already full. So I think they do have a real choice.

 

[pepi]

I am also in the camp that tries to avoid booking.com. But at some point, the convenience factor is just too great, though this happens mainly while traveling as a tourist. Just recently, I took a two week drive around Portugal, mostly in small towns. I wanted to have reservations. I tried contacting places directly. Most of those who responded wanted a bank transfer as a deposit. That is a real problem for US travelers, because our banks haven’t gotten the memo that explains that most of the world operates this way. I get a few free transfers every year and then the charge is $35 or more. Others wanted my CC number, sent to them via email. That’s another deal breaker, because that’s not secure. So I fell back on the ease of booking with booking and was careful to explain why to the owners of the small places where I stayed once I got there.

I will say that, to a one, they told me they feel they HAVE to use booking. It is not a weighing of pros and cons, it’s the sense that there is a gun to their head and they will lose a lot of business if they are not on it.

One owner told me that he gives booking customers the “worst” rooms, but that since I had explained myself and since my husband had limited mobility he would make an exception for me. I later asked in a couple of places whether that was their practice as well, and it seemed to be the case. It is true that some (mostly large) hotels distinguish rooms on the basis of the amenities offered, but some of these small places just charge one price, and for those the booking customers got the less attractive room — the smaller room, the room without a balcony, the darker room, etc.

I think this is much less an issue for big chain hotels. I had made reservations for two nights in Porto and when we arrived, I told them we wanted to add a night. They told me just to do it via booking that it was easier for them.

Not sure this adds much to the discussion, but I do wrestle with this when I travel.

Some News in Switzerland today on the subject:

At the beginning of December, the Swiss Federal Council lifted the so-called gagging agreements between hotels and booking platforms such as Booking.com. Now, hotels and other lodging establishments are officially allowed to offer their guests lower room rates than the online platforms. Previously, they were prohibited from doing so.
The first hoteliers are already advertising lower prices on their websites to attract customers who book their rooms directly. But there are different views in the industry: One hotelier in Basel, for example, reports that he continues to cooperate closely with booking platforms and complies with their specifications. Among other things, this has the advantage that such establishments are placed more prominently on online portals and thus receive more attention.

 

[Felipe]

I am satisfaced with b.com for my occasional hostals or private chambers in albergues, when I am on the mood to rest a day from collective dorms. It has worked fine. Obviously, I prefer to make my reservations by phone or e-mail, when available.
Some places have local or "alternative" systems of online reservation, but I am not comfortable with the idea of giving my data to unknown operators.

 

[Former member 102963]

I sometimes leave reviews but hardly ever read them. I do give a cursory glance to the rating score and I think that's a fairly accurate indicator of the sort of place it is.

I find the rating score very useful especially when there are a significant number of reviews, …a few hundred plus. I always sort on the newest verbatims! They is plenty of crazy stuff such as ‘ I paid €10 for a room and there was no room service’, and I find often expectations are too high, but you can pick up quite a of of general themes, good and bad. Post my stay I find my views very closely correlate with the overall gist of the reviews I have read!

 

[Former member 102963]

I am satisfaced with b.com for my occasional hostals or private chambers in albergues, when I am on the mood to rest a day from collective dorms. It has worked fine. Obviously, I prefer to make my reservations by phone or e-mail, when available.
Some places have local or "alternative" systems of online reservation, but I am not comfortable with the idea of giving my data to unknown operators.

Why would you prefer to make a reservation by phone or email when you can do so online?

 

[VNwalking]

Why would you prefer to make a reservation by phone or email when you can do so online?

All of the below. What @Tincatinker mentions may be a generational shift - not everyone grew up with the internet available at our fingertips every moment, or at all. For some of us, a direct connection is both more familiar and preferable.

always preferred a direct booking as that gave me the opportunity to speak directly with the pilgrim in question and ask if there were any special needs or requests (I offered breakfast and dinner).

Takes some money out of the pocket of the lodging owner (15% according to comments above

Cancellation deadlines of several days or a week make it harder to be flexible on your

This is why I avoid sites like booking.com wherever possible. https://www.9news.com.au/national/d...on-rates/59171b53-4caa-41d6-9bac-4847bf00ff0a I have spoken to a motel owner in NSW who confirmed what Smith is saying, so while I may use these sites to find somewhere, I try to contact the venue directly.

since more then 4 years I am also an owner of an albergue.
For me, booking has no added value, while the costs are 15% of the income. What also happens, once on booking, it becomes very difficult for people to find your your direct website on google. Al the search results are taken by booking and likewise websites. Your potential direct guests are kind of manipulated towards booking. it takes a lot of efford for your own site to be find.

But don´t expect to find the nice pilgrimsplaces on booking, they have no reason to do so

I profoundly miss the human interaction. The slight wince in the voice as an honest local “recommended” the only hotel in town or the slight chuckle as they recommended their mum’s place. Now all I have to go on is “Kieron and Buffy thought the furniture was “cute””.

 

[Former member 102963]

Thank you very much. Yes I think a generational thing too.

All of the below. What @Tincatinker mentions may be a generational shift - not everyone grew up with the internet available at our fingertips every moment, or at all. For some of us, a direct connection is both more familiar and preferable

 

[Felipe]

I prefer personal interactions. Besides, I am aware that b.com charges the albergues a significant % for each reservation. Or. maybe, as commented above, it is just a generational thing.

Why would you prefer to make a reservation by phone or email when you can do so online?

 

[Former member 102963]

I prefer personal interactions. Besides, I am aware that b.com charges the albergues a significant % for each reservation. Or. maybe, as commented above, it is just a generational thing.

Thank you! Yes for me personally a generational thing. I’m not really concerned with the personal interaction or the commercial arrangements between the two organisations.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I think there is "room" (pun) for "both" methods of booking rooms and some folks even combine and use the benefits of each when planning; one is not better than the other; there are two sides to every coin.

 

[Harland2019]

I am just a little surprised at the number of posts on this topic. Walkers/pilgrims/holidaymakers have the option to use Booking.com or not, equally the room providers have the option to place their rooms on Booking.com or not. However I am a simple sole - well my wife tells me I am!

 

[Bristle Boy]

I am just a little surprised at the number of posts on this topic. Walkers/pilgrims/holidaymakers have the option to use Booking.com or not, equally the room providers have the option to place their rooms on Booking.com or not. However I am a simple sole - well my wife tells me I am!

There is something fishy about this post
Seriously, I could not agree more with your sentiments.

 

[Former member 102963]

There is something fishy about this post
Seriously, I could not agree more with your sentiments.

Yea agreed!

 

[Harland2019]

My wife was right! Can't spell either!

 

[Former member 102963]

I am just a little surprised at the number of posts on this topic. Walkers/pilgrims/holidaymakers have the option to use Booking.com or not, equally the room providers have the option to place their rooms on Booking.com or not. However I am a simple sole - well my wife tells me I am!

My wife was right! Can't spell either!

We tend to carp on about lots of things of this forum!

 

[Harland2019]

I must admit to using booking.com and had a whale of a time!

 

[Former member 102963]

Alw

I must admit to using booking.com and had a whale of a time!

More imporant things to talk about. This tends to be a red herring.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

My wife was right! Can't spell either!

I noticed that, too. You seem like a very kind "soul" with a good sense of humor/humour.

 

[VNwalking]

Alw

More imporant things to talk about. This tends to be a red herring.

I'm outta here. Other fish to fry.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I'm outta here. Other fish to fry.

Ok! You've already served up a whole kettle of fish on post #127 anyway...I'll follow you out, but will say these final few posts have been the funniest "off-fishe" string I've seen in awhile, including your last one.

 

[nycwalking]

Ok! You've already served up a whole kettle of fish on post #127 anyway...I'll follow you out, but will say these final few posts have been the funniest "off-fishe" string I've seen in awhile, including your last one.

Darn!

Too late to go fishing.

Sometimes you don’t catch a thing.

 

[dougfitz]

Why would you prefer to make a reservation by phone or email when you can do so online?

For a start, it is one way to see if a property is prepared to offer a better price when price parity clauses preclude them from advertising these on their own websites and associated booking engines. In Australia, at least, it is an agreed mechanism that properties can offer cheaper rates on face-to-face transactions. Whether they will or not is another matter, but one can but try.

See this recent The Conversation article on where this is moving in Australia.

Walkers/pilgrims/holidaymakers have the option to use Booking.com or not, equally the room providers have the option to place their rooms on Booking.com or not.

This is true, but also fairly simplistic. Gatekeeper sites like Booking.com, Amazon, etc massively distort the market to their advantage, which generally means that there will be some combination of buyers paying more and vendors getting less than they might otherwise. Individually, we are often prepared to accept that, but that doesn't make it right or just.

 

[Former member 102963]

For a start, it is one way to see if a property is prepared to offer a better price when price parity clauses preclude them from advertising these on their own websites and associated booking engines. In Australia, at least, it is an agreed mechanism that properties can offer cheaper rates on face-to-face transactions. Whether they will or not is another matter, but one can but try.

See this recent The Conversation article on where this is moving in Australia.


This is true, but also fairly simplistic. Gatekeeper sites like Booking.com, Amazon, etc massively distort the market to their advantage, which generally means that there will be some combination of buyers paying more and vendors getting less than they might otherwise. Individually, we are often prepared to accept that, but that doesn't make it right or just.

Thank you very much! Must admit never really considered calling hotels / hostels /albergues to negotiate! But I will in future!

 

[SabsP]

Thank you very much! Must admit never really considered calling hotels / hostels /albergues to negotiate! But I will in future!

Please do! The hotels will love this approach.
On my most recent Camino I got us a double room for 48 € by calling directly instead of the 65 € barkingdotcom asked.
And when we arrived the hotelier was ever so nice to compliment me with my broken Spanish...

 

[Flog]

I use booking.com for the occasional one night stay and I don't mind that it usually means paying a little over the odds for the convenience, it's such an easy site to navigate. But if it's more than one night I'll always try to make direct contact to negotiate.

This morning I went to book a 5 night stay in an apartment in Aviles, €460 on booking.com. I contacted the vendor by WhatsApp and we agreed on €350 cash on arrival. I asked for an email with confirmation and if he wouldn't mind taking down the listing and he was happy to do both. This gives me some peace of mind.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

This morning I went to book a 5 night stay in an apartment in Aviles, €460 on booking.com. I contacted the vendor by WhatsApp and we agreed on €350 cash on arrival. I asked for an email with confirmation and if he wouldn't mind taking down the listing and he was happy to do both. This gives me some peace of mind.

I think the owner will receive less € from you than if you had booked through the booking website "if" the standard 15% commission applies.
You were able to negotiate directly at a savings to you, but doubt it benefited him monetarily, although I'm sure he is appreciative that the room is rented.

Edit- We all prefer to save money where we can; nothing wrong with that, but I don't think the proprieter always comes out ahead unless they do not list on booking websites.

 

[Flog]

I think the owner will receive less € from you than if you had booked through the booking website "if" the standard 15% commission applies.
You were able to negotiate directly at a savings to you, but doubt it benefited him monetarily, although I'm sure he is appreciative that the room is rented.

Edit- We all prefer to save money where we can; nothing wrong with that, but I don't think the proprieter always comes out ahead unless they do not list on booking websites.

Yes possibly.. it was more of a saving than I expected, about 25% or thereabouts. Normally, for cash I would expect about 10% or so.
I'm not complaining..

 

[BombayBill]

Yes possibly.. it was more of a saving than I expected, about 25% or thereabouts. Normally, for cash I would expect about 10% or so.
I'm not complaining..

I suppose some owners may prefer the direct method as the revenue stream is less apparent to the government’s all seeing taxing eye. So it’s not so much a rejection of b. Com but rather a cash enhancement scheme.

When I started this thread I wasn’t expecting such an exhaustive examination of the subject. 148 posts!!! But now with my latest thoughts on the matter I’m trying slyly to re- animate the subject in order that I’m the cause of the blog reaching 1 million posts.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/post-number-1-million-on-the-forum.77915/

 

[Flog]

I suppose some owners may prefer the direct method as the revenue stream is less apparent to the government’s all seeing taxing eye. So it’s not so much a rejection of b. Com but rather a cash enhancement scheme.

I didn't want to make that assumption. It could also be that as a small operator he prefers the simplicity of dealing direct with the customer rather than having to deal with everything through a third party, even if it appears less profitable.

 

[peregrina2000]

€460 on booking.com. I contacted the vendor by WhatsApp and we agreed on €350 cash on arrival. I asked for an email with confirmation and if he wouldn't mind taking down the listing and he was happy to do both. This gives me some peace of mind.

The cash payment means the owner doesn’t have to pay the credit card commission, and it also allows less scrupulous owners to avoid paying taxes. I’m not saying this is a great money-maker for the owner, but a cash transaction will be more profitable.

450 minus the 15% booking fee - 397

397 minus the approx 3% credit card fee (about 12) - 385

385 minus the approximately 25% Spanish tax (about 95) - 290 in the owner’s pocket

Whether the owner prefers to deal with booking.com is one thing, but when an owner makes a cash deal it is frequently for tax avoidance purposes.

 

[Flog]

Whether the owner prefers to deal with booking.com is one thing, but when an owner makes a cash deal it is frequently for tax avoidance purposes.

As I said, I didn't want to make that assumption and it's not necessarily so.

 

[Bristle Boy]

I didn't want to make that assumption. It could also be that as a small operator he prefers the simplicity of dealing direct with the customer rather than having to deal with everything through a third party, even if it appears less profitable.

Knowing nothing of the commercial or business practices involved it might have something to do with the speed of payment through b.com

 

[peregrina2000]

Knowing nothing of the commercial or business practices involved it might have something to do with the speed of payment through b.com

I’m not talking about using booking vs. not using booking, I am talking about owners who offer better prices when you pay them in cash rather than with a credit card. Anything more than a few percentage points of difference suggests it’s about more than avoiding the credit card charges. I have walked with a Spanish law professor who always insists on getting a receipt when he pays his bills. Every time we were dealing with an owner who wanted cash, the owner balked at giving us a receipt. I am certainly not saying that all owners who prefer cash are doing it to avoid taxes, but the odds are high. If you are involved in a cash transaction, see if the establishment gives you an official printout with business name, etc. Or if they just put the money in the cash register or in their pocket.

In fact, Spain has passed a law prohibiting all commercial cash transactions over 1,000 €. Tax avoidance is a huge problem in Spain. And cash transactions are a very big part of that.

 

[dougfitz]

When I started this thread I wasn’t expecting such an exhaustive examination of the subject. 148 posts!!! But now with my latest thoughts on the matter I’m trying slyly to re- animate the subject in order that I’m the cause of the blog reaching 1 million posts.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/post-number-1-million-on-the-forum.77915/

Good luck with that.

 

[Kathor1]

Now, hotels and other lodging establishments are officially allowed to offer their guests lower room rates than the online platforms. Previously, they were prohibited from doing so.

And to confirm this and settle the question once and for all , at least for some EU+ countries: I made a booking for a hotel room today. The hotel is on Booking.com and it has a separate booking facility on their website. The price on their own website included a 10% discount compared to the price on Booking.com (same room) and this discount is listed as such on my invoice as "Own website discount". Also, their price includes breakfast while on Booking.com it would have been extra (and it's a hefty price).

So, yes, hotels are allowed to offer their rooms online at a lower rate than they do on Booking.com and there is no secrecy about it.

 

[trecile]

I saw this post on the Camigas FB group yesterday. It seems that some albergues that accept reservations are thinking of using booking.com because if the high number of pilgrims who reserve and never show up.

 

[Former member 104756]

I saw this post on the Camigas FB group yesterday. It seems that some albergues that accept reservations are thinking of using booking.com because if the high number of pilgrims who reserve and never show up.

View attachment 146321

and who could blame her. Shameful behaviour - if they can use the phone to reserve, they can use the phone to cancel.

 

[J Willhaus]

I saw this post on the Camigas FB group yesterday. It seems that some albergues that accept reservations are thinking of using booking.com because if the high number of pilgrims who reserve and never show up.

View attachment 146321

I think that albergue is owned by the man who also owns the hotel in town. Which is on booking.com already. Two years ago, Phil reserved at the albergue, but they did not have a plug in outlet for his CPAP so they called over to the hotel and got him a private room with a plug at a significant discount.

 

[Former member 107885]

I saw this post on the Camigas FB group yesterday. It seems that some albergues that accept reservations are thinking of using booking.com because if the high number of pilgrims who reserve and never show up.

View attachment 146321

Out of interest why is a charge not made at time of booking, deposit or full money. Is it just lack of technology. To me it’s unthinkable not to do this? I would guess that folks walking a Camino are much less likely to show up, versus non Camino travellers, given changeable nature of the activity?

 

[KFH]

No "worsrt" rooms in my experience.
On the Via Francigena last month we used booking.com., requesting rooms with window views, balconies, or terraces as the case may be. We were always obliged for no extra charge. Here are a few of our views, often sharing a bottle of wine...wonderful.
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Nice

 

[C clearly]

Out of interest why is a charge not made at time of booking, deposit or full money. Is it just lack of technology.

Are you asking why the lodging does not set up their Booking account to have different cancellation policy?

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Are you asking why the lodging does not set up their Booking account to have different cancellation policy?

I think he was asking why they don't take deposit payment from direct booking customers, rather than resorting to booking.com.

 

[Former member 107885]

Are you asking why the lodging does not set up their Booking account to have different cancellation policy?

Well I guess a cancellation policy for all direct sales assuming they only sell via phone, email and WhatsApp. So currently you can book, not show up, and there are no financial consequences! So it’s hardly surprising folks don’t show up in big numbers!

 

[VNwalking]

currently you can book, not show up, and there are no financial consequences! So it’s hardly surprising folks don’t show up in big numbers!

It surprises me, but then I grew up learning that being considerate was its own reward, and mostly people were. Likewise on the camino. Selfish entitlement seems ascendent everywhere, sadly - people need a fiscal penalty to force them to think of others?

 

[Former member 107885]

It surprises me, but then I grew up learning that being considerate was its own reward, and mostly people were. Likewise on the camino. Selfish entitlement seems ascendent everywhere, sadly - people need a fiscal penalty to force them to think of others?

Yes agreed! Demographic changing too it seems and ‘old achool’ behaviours will change along with them too! Sadly a fiscal penalty is required.33% of people not turning up is huge and assume running an Albergue is pretty much all fixed cost so shocking really.

 

[J Willhaus]

I will say that when I make a reservation for anything in the US (campsite, hotel, national park lodge, etc.) My credit card info is taken and I am charged at some point. Hotels often have a way to cancel before a certain date without penalty, but state and national parks often charge you at the time of reservation (often 6 months out from the actual date) and charge you again if you make any changes to the dates, etc. There is often an additional charge to actually do the online reservation as well. We have all been spoiled by the trust that has been common on the Camino.

 

[trecile]

Out of interest why is a charge not made at time of booking, deposit or full money. Is it just lack of technology. To me it’s unthinkable not to do this? I would guess that folks walking a Camino are much less likely to show up, versus non Camino travellers, given changeable nature of the activity?

Most of these places have only accepted cash and taken reservations by the honor system. It's a lot of work for them to change their system and accept credit cards in advance, then they would also have to be prepared to make refunds for those who cancel ahead of time. So it makes sense to turn that part of the operation over to booking.com.

 

[Former member 107885]

Most of these places have only accepted cash and taken reservations by the honor system. It's a lot of work for them to change their system and accept credit cards in advance, then they would also have to be prepared to make refunds for those who cancel ahead of time. So it makes sense to turn that part of the operation over to booking.com.

Ok I will push back. In Spain for example I was at a football match last night. Stalls (very basic) selling packets of sweets for €1 and taking credit cards. Super basic. I have seen street entertainers take cards too. If refunds are difficult then maybe take a non refundable payment or charge a deposit. Given demand don’t think it would be commercially a disaster? Just an open thought!

 

[J Willhaus]

1. Yes, you can take credit cards in person rather easily, but to set up a booking system is something different. We've all read the panicked messages here about "why hasn't Orrison responded to my request for a reservation" Systems are not always automated and someone may actually have to check the system and generate a reply of yes or no. (I don't believe they issue refunds either, but I can't be certain.)

2. Also there is a %charge to take a credit card. Essentially with cash, you keep that %. When a pilgrim pays with a card the owner gets less than someone who pays with cash. The 8 euro per bunk albergue is less likely to take a card for that reason. Your 1 euro sweet may take less effort to provide than the utilities, cleaning, and care of an albergue and every little bit makes a difference.

 

[Viva Terlingua]

As mentioned earlier, booking.com does have benefits for the operator, but also adds cost. It’s up to the operator to decide whether it’s worth it to them. It does not make booking.com evil for charging for their services. The operator is free to use them or not use them.

Although it is not mandatory that albergues provide online booking, I think more people are coming to expect it. At one time Wi-Fi was considered a luxury, now it is expected. I would suspect that at some time in the past very few albergues had hot showers, now they are standard. Times change and expectations change.

 

[J Willhaus]

As mentioned earlier, booking.com does have benefits for the operator, but also adds cost. It’s up to the operator to decide whether it’s worth it to them. It does not make booking.com evil for charging for their services. The operator is free to use them or not use them.

Although it is not mandatory that albergues provide online booking, I think more people are coming to expect it. At one time Wi-Fi was considered a luxury, now it is expected. I would suspect that at some time in the past very few albergues had hot showers, now they are standard. Times change and expectations change.

A cold shower is more off-putting to me than no wifi. One of the most successful donativos at Grañón does have hot water, but no phone, no wifi, no sello, no booking, no beds (only mats) and yet it is still popular with pilgrims. It is not necessary for all albergues to be reservable in my opinion.

 

[auburnfive]

I have pre- booked accommodation for our group of 4, in very popular September. Only one booking per night. About half of the time directly with the owner, the other half with booking.com,( especially if it is an apartment, as Airbnb adds another layer of complexity.). With the direct bookings I will confirm by email a week or so ahead and then again possibly the night before depending on our anticipated time of arrival. With booking.com that extra step is saved, although it ends up you pay more.

 

[Viva Terlingua]

A cold shower is more off-putting to me than no wifi. One of the most successful donativos at Grañón does have hot water, but no phone, no wifi, no sello, no booking, no beds (only mats) and yet it is still popular with pilgrims. It is not necessary for all albergues to be reservable in my opinion.

I have pre- booked accommodation for our group of 4, in very popular September. Only one booking per night. About half of the time directly with the owner, the other half with booking.com,( especially if it is an apartment, as Airbnb adds another layer of complexity.). With the direct bookings I will confirm by email a week or so ahead and then again possibly the night before depending on our anticipated time of arrival. With booking.com that extra step is saved, although it ends up you pay more.

Exactly. Do you want to worry about that extra step or just enjoy your wine and padron pimientos?

 

[Former member 107885]

1. Yes, you can take credit cards in person rather easily, but to set up a booking system is something different. We've all read the panicked messages here about "why hasn't Orrison responded to my request for a reservation" Systems are not always automated and someone may actually have to check the system and generate a reply of yes or no. (I don't believe they issue refunds either, but I can't be certain.)

2. Also there is a %charge to take a credit card. Essentially with cash, you keep that %. When a pilgrim pays with a card the owner gets less than someone who pays with cash. The 8 euro per bunk albergue is less likely to take a card for that reason. Your 1 euro sweet may take less effort to provide than the utilities, cleaning, and care of an albergue and every little bit makes a difference.

Thank you! Yes . I guess if was that straightforward they would have done it already.

 

[Former member 107885]

As mentioned earlier, booking.com does have benefits for the operator, but also adds cost. It’s up to the operator to decide whether it’s worth it to them. It does not make booking.com evil for charging for their services. The operator is free to use them or not use them.

Although it is not mandatory that albergues provide online booking, I think more people are coming to expect it. At one time Wi-Fi was considered a luxury, now it is expected. I would suspect that at some time in the past very few albergues had hot showers, now they are standard. Times change and expectations change.

Yes… i only book anything online nowadays, it wouldn’t even occur to me to do anything by phone! And I’m 57! Young folks will even more online focused. Younger walkers will have only known the internet age.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

There are ways to accept payments in advance without an actual booking system but it takes time for someone to actually do it and there are still fees.

For instance, if you have a business paypal account you can issue invoices that can be paid by any payment method paypal accepts, but someone has to send the invoices and check whether they've been paid and update the bookings so that beds are only kept for those who pay etc.

Booking.com is an easy way to get someone else to deal with all this stuff.

 

[klimmo]

As mentioned earlier, booking.com does have benefits for the operator, but also adds cost. It’s up to the operator to decide whether it’s worth it to them. It does not make booking.com evil for charging for their services. The operator is free to use them or not use them.

Exactly, and every operator may have their own reasons for doing so. I have friends here in the alps that happily use Booking for some of their rooms (they decide how many and when), even though you can book them directly too. On the CP I weeded out options online on booking and then contacting the accomodations directly. To my surprise some prefered I booked directly on Booking, some prefered I booked through them.
As with the camino and so many things in life, it's not black and white, not or/or but and/or; and there are many, many different ways to Rome (or Santiago) and most of them are just as good.

 

[Former member 107885]

Exactly, and every operator may have their own reasons for doing so. I have friends here in the alps that happily use Booking for some of their rooms (they decide how many and when), even though you can book them directly too. On the CP I weeded out options online on booking and then contacting the accomodations directly. To my surprise some prefered I booked directly on Booking, some prefered I booked through them.
As with the camino and so many things in life, it's not black and white, not or/or but and/or; and there are many, many different ways to Rome (or Santiago) and most of them are just as good.

Indeed! I am a big fan of booking.com as I use them all the time and they haven’t let me down and the booking procedure, transparency of the T and C’s, etc is to my mind miles better than any of the competition. You can always improve of course but the app is so intuitive to me, albeit I am an excessive user!

 

[MARSKA]

I use booking too at times, but not on the camino. Most places, especially the (for me) nice pilgrimaccomodatins, are not on booking. In the normal commercial world booking might be a right thing, but for many owners of an albergue the camino is not just a commercial thing.

Besides this, since more then 4 years I am also an owner of an albergue.
For me, booking has no added value, while the costs are 15% of the income. What also happens, once on booking, it becomes very difficult for people to find your your direct website on google. Al the search results are taken by booking and likewise websites. Your potential direct guests are kind of manipulated towards booking. it takes a lot of efford for your own site to be find.

Maybe the average pilgrim on this forum is different from the average pilgrim on the camino, but really by far most pilgrims use any kind of direct booking.
There are guides, sites and apps who offer information for free about every albergue, hotel or other accommodation on the camino, not just a selection who need booking. This information is reliable, not written by the albergue owner but by the writer of the app-guide websites. And these websites and apps also offer feedback comments from pilgrims.
Maybe we are lucky, maybe we have a good name, but we get more then enough pilgrims who reserve directly. And we are thankful for that. Having to use booking would take by far a too big part of the very small profit we have over the year.

So as a pilgrim, it can be comfortable to use booking sometimes. Especially if you are looking for private rooms. But don´t expect to find the nice pilgrimsplaces on booking, they have no reason to do so.
When the language is a problem, use google translate on your phone. Once you are used to it, it is a matter of a copy/page and a swipe. Or ask hospitalero´s or Spanis speaking pilgrims to make a phonecall for you.

For the coming future: a Galician association of albergue owners is busy making an own booking app for albergues. I hope this will be working soon. It will be an app without commission. I sincerely hope it will be a succes.

Hi Thomas! I know this is an older thread...but- I just want to say that you have provided an explanation for what I have been experiencing. I have trouble finding the direct websites for some of the nice "pilgrimplaces". And I appreciate knowing that for many albergue owners it is not a commercial thing.

 

[trecile]

I have trouble finding the direct websites for some of the nice "pilgrimplaces".

Not all albergues have websites, but they usually have an email address or phone number that you can contact them on. You will find this information on Gronze.com.

Camino Francés | Gronze.com

El Camino Francés es el Camino de Santiago en el que confluyen la mayoría de las vías medievales de peregrinación europeas, siendo por tanto el camino de mayor relevancia histórica y el más seguido por los peregrinos. Su punto de inicio, hoy en día, tanto puede considerarse Roncesvalles como...

www.gronze.com

 

[J Willhaus]

Not all albergues have websites, but they usually have an email address or phone number that you can contact them on. You will find this information on Gronze.com.

Camino Francés | Gronze.com

El Camino Francés es el Camino de Santiago en el que confluyen la mayoría de las vías medievales de peregrinación europeas, siendo por tanto el camino de mayor relevancia histórica y el más seguido por los peregrinos. Su punto de inicio, hoy en día, tanto puede considerarse Roncesvalles como...

www.gronze.com

Some pilgrim albergues run by the city may only have a phone at the city offices. Some albergues have no phone. These are generally ones that don't take a reservation though.

 

[dougfitz]

Yes… i only book anything online nowadays, it wouldn’t even occur to me to do anything by phone! And I’m 57! Young folks will even more online focused. Younger walkers will have only known the internet age.

That's interesting. I did about 25% of my bookings on my most recent camino directly with the albergue by phone. One place I found on the day I was walking to that town, took a photo of the advertising, and rang them from the next bar when I took a break.

Your assessment that younger (whatever that might mean) walkers might rely more on the internet might explain some of the issues people seem to be having finding accommodation in places. I have nearly 20 Portuguese and Spanish contact numbers in my WhatsApp directory for albergues and other accommodation that I contacted last year. Of course, there might have been several calls to find somewhere for a particular night, but that still could be 25% or more of the time accommodation was arranged over the phone in one way or another. Noting that I would normally check first on booking.com, these were places that wouldn't have appeared to have any accommodation if I had relied only on that service.

My view is that if you are unwilling to use the phone to contact albergues, etc to check the availability of a bed or room, you are ignoring a substantial number of places providing pilgrim accommodation. That seems odd to me.

 

[KFH]

That's interesting. I did about 25% of my bookings on my most recent camino directly with the albergue by phone. One place I found on the day I was walking to that town, took a photo of the advertising, and rang them from the next bar when I took a break.

Your assessment that younger (whatever that might mean) walkers might rely more on the internet might explain some of the issues people seem to be having finding accommodation in places. I have nearly 20 Portuguese and Spanish contact numbers in my WhatsApp directory for albergues and other accommodation that I contacted last year. Of course, there might have been several calls to find somewhere for a particular night, but that still could be 25% or more of the time accommodation was arranged over the phone in one way or another. Noting that I would normally check first on booking.com, these were places that wouldn't have appeared to have any accommodation if I had relied only on that service.

My view is that if you are unwilling to use the phone to contact albergues, etc to check the availability of a bed or room, you are ignoring a substantial number of places providing pilgrim accommodation. That seems odd to me.

Excellent post and useful advice!
(edit-- Meaning I find the 'roadside adverts/phone calls/storing info on phone' a great idea. I wasn't commenting on tM22 choices.)

 

[Former member 107885]

That's interesting. I did about 25% of my bookings on my most recent camino directly with the albergue by phone. One place I found on the day I was walking to that town, took a photo of the advertising, and rang them from the next bar when I took a break.

Your assessment that younger (whatever that might mean) walkers might rely more on the internet might explain some of the issues people seem to be having finding accommodation in places. I have nearly 20 Portuguese and Spanish contact numbers in my WhatsApp directory for albergues and other accommodation that I contacted last year. Of course, there might have been several calls to find somewhere for a particular night, but that still could be 25% or more of the time accommodation was arranged over the phone in one way or another. Noting that I would normally check first on booking.com, these were places that wouldn't have appeared to have any accommodation if I had relied only on that service.

My view is that if you are unwilling to use the phone to contact albergues, etc to check the availability of a bed or room, you are ignoring a substantial number of places providing pilgrim accommodation. That seems odd to me.

Thank you! I guess I am just carrying on my normal travel practices in my behaviour when I walk a Camino. It’s not a case of being unwilling, it’s a case of it not occurring to me. I guess I am a full time traveller at moment and phoning, wapping, or emailing hotels or hostels does not figure. Speaking to 30 year olds before I retired the idea of phoning a hotel would have intrigued them! I don’t feel it detracts in any way from my experience as I sense alot of other walkers act in same way, and I meet and interact with a huge amount of people, with no desire to seek out ‘pilgrim only, offline bookable’ hotac. No right way, of course, and I am sorry you see it as odd and it may well be in the context of this forum which obviously contains a lot of purists but out on the trail it feels fine. This is a great forum but I sense very little correlation with the views of the mass ‘camino’ers’ and the demographics on here don’t really correlate to the Camino as a whole and the viewpoints and behaviours, in my view, don’t either. Not that it matters, this is a forum for the purists, and that’s great, but I think it’s worth acknowledging. I guess in my 3 caminos, supply has always met demand, so have not had to consider any other way. I guess if I had to phone I may well have as a last resort.

Sorry that a long winded set of thoughts and I have offloaded a bit, that strays from your succinct point in final para but hope that’s ok. Mods can delete if viewpoint not acceptable.

 

[dougfitz]

No right way, of course, and I am sorry you see it as odd and it may well be in the context of this forum which obviously contains a lot of purists but out on the trail it feels fine.

My comment about it being odd was not an observation on your approach, but having re-read it I can see how you might have gotten that interpretation.

I was reflecting on the observation you made about younger walkers not using the phone, or rather, relying on the internet. I thought that if pilgrims are not using phones to contact albergues, etc, that might provide some explanation for why people have been finding it difficult - they are not engaging with a section of the accommodation marketplace that might well have rooms and beds available. That was what I felt would have been odd.

 

[Former member 107885]

My comment about it being odd was not an observation on your approach, but having re-read it I can see how you might have given that interpretation.

I was reflecting on the observation you made about younger walkers not using the phone, or rather, relying on the internet. I thought that if pilgrims are not using phones to contact albergues, etc, that might provide some explanation for why people have been finding it difficult - they are not engaging with a section of the accommodation marketplace that might well have rooms and beds available. That was what I felt would have been odd.

Thank you. Sorry I misunderstood!! Thank you for responding so quickly!

 

[BillW]

My view is that if you are unwilling to use the phone to contact albergues, etc to check the availability of a bed or room, you are ignoring a substantial number of places providing pilgrim accommodation.

I agree, if you are comfortable calling, that's your best bet. As someone that doesn't speak Spanish, I felt much better using email than calling. Translate apps work pretty well, and having the communication in writing is a bonus.

 

[alexwalker]

That's interesting. I did about 25% of my bookings on my most recent camino directly with the albergue by phone. One place I found on the day I was walking to that town, took a photo of the advertising, and rang them from the next bar when I took a break.

Your assessment that younger (whatever that might mean) walkers might rely more on the internet might explain some of the issues people seem to be having finding accommodation in places. I have nearly 20 Portuguese and Spanish contact numbers in my WhatsApp directory for albergues and other accommodation that I contacted last year. Of course, there might have been several calls to find somewhere for a particular night, but that still could be 25% or more of the time accommodation was arranged over the phone in one way or another. Noting that I would normally check first on booking.com, these were places that wouldn't have appeared to have any accommodation if I had relied only on that service.

My view is that if you are unwilling to use the phone to contact albergues, etc to check the availability of a bed or room, you are ignoring a substantial number of places providing pilgrim accommodation. That seems odd to me.

Completely agree. I call and book directly. Of course, it will require some Spanish skills, which I fortunately possess.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Thank you. Sorry I misunderstood!! Thank you for responding so quickly!

I am sorry to see that "Traveling man" has left the forum. I always enjoy his input as he is a seasoned traveler with good and interesting opinions and advice.