How to address other Spanish speakers, Formal or Informal?

[Sheesh]

The following except is from the blog site Deliberate Spanish under a page entitled "How to Sound Natural When Ordering Food in Spanish" (A subject near and dear to my heart )

"In Spain, we use tú-vosotros for the informal and usted-ustedes for the formal. Makes sense, right? Why would you pick one from each category? Well, this is what one region of Spain did: most people in the Canary Islands use tú-ustedes for the informal and usted-ustedes for the formal.

This would have just been a linguistic oddity if it weren't for the fact that almost every Spanish ship that went on to "discover" the Americas had its last pre-Atlantic pit stop in the Canary Islands. This meant that many people in favor of using tú-ustedes boarded those ships, which meant that they had a first-mover advantage in deciding how Spanish would be spoken in the entire American Continent.

So, now you know who to blame for the tú-ustedes madness."

How to Sound Natural When Ordering Food in Spanish

If you've ever felt self-conscious ordering food in Spain, this article will change your life. You'll never sound rude again if you follow these guidelines.

www.deliberatespanish.com

 

[Tincatinker]

"Oye, tío!" might be too informal.

The younger members of my tribe seem to think that might be a bit too formal

 

[Bradypus]

The younger members of my tribe seem to think that might be a bit too formal

You could try it. If your soup ends up in your lap rather than on the table then perhaps you were a little out in your guess....

 

[Rmarkob]

"Oye, tío!" might be too informal.

I was chastised by my Argentinian Professor for calling "Oiga, profesora" after a university class in the '70s. She explained that "Disculpe" would be the more polite way of attracting her attention. I thought I was doing well using the 3rd person singular!

In my defense, "Oye" was commonly used by my latinamerican classmates to attract someone's attention in informal settings (e.g. a fellow student, not bus/taxi drivers, waiters, etc.).

 

[henrythedog]

While we're "off" the subject - any views on the use of Chico/a to attract the attention of wait staff and bar tenders? I here it frequently in the sorts of bars where the staff are generally on the youngish side (should probably still be in school ). It would seem totally inappropriate when the camarero is dressed in black trousers, white shirt and waistcoat and is probably my contemporary. "Atención" kind of works but I'm never sure whether there's a better alternative to the traditional "Oi!"

In decreasing order of civility - I tend to frequent the latter end.

Señor, perdone, discúlpame, amigo, porfa, hola, oiga, holding empty glass upside down above your head .. and so on.

 

[Ivan_Prada]

IMHO, you should treat the other person the same way you would like to be treated.

The way I was raised was to address my elders, persons with authority (teachers, priest, nuns, members of government, police officers, etc.) and persons met for first time with “Usted”. As the relation progresses, then by mutual accord the “Tu” came in use.

As natural Spanish language speaker, the use of the pronouns “Vos and Vosotros” is a little confusing because the correct verb conjugation must accompany the pronoun.

This is the reason of the decadence in their use. The confusion arises because there are two singular tense persons (Tu and Vos) and two plural tense persons (Ustedes and Vosotros).

I do not want to go into deep with Spanish grammar as this is not the theme of the thread. My recommendations is follow your instincts. My Camino experience was the following: we reach the hostel that had our reservation, the owner received us and did the registration and introduced herself by name; from there on we (my wife and I) proceed to address her as: Doña María. Where we are from, we use such titles (Don and Doña) as respect, she being the owner of the place.

Hope this helps.

 

[trecile]

The confusion arises because there are two singular tense persons (Tu and Vos) and two plural tense persons (Ustedes and Vosotros).

I thought that vos wasn't used in Spain.

 

[HBS60]

My perspective as a native Spanish speaker from Latin America, I would say not to stress too much about it, If it’s obvious that Spanish is not your first language, just the fact that you are trying to learn is usually appreciated. It can be hard to figure out because in different regions/countries the customs can be different. I’m Puerto Rican, and I once dated a Costa Rican woman that kept addressing me as “Usted”, much to my bafflement, because it felt so formal, but I know of countries that even children would address their parents as “usted” which to me sounds way too formal. Conversely, I’m in my 60s, and I have a piano teacher that is maybe 10 years younger than me. He is Venezuelan but lived in Spain for many years and still has the Spain accent. When I signed up for lessons, I addressed him as “Usted” because he was my professor, after all, but he made it a point (rather forcefully) to address him as “tu”. It was awkward because on the one side, I’m older so I can simply stick with “tu”, but because he was my professor, I would feel obliged to say “usted”.

One more story, but this is with an English speaker, I had this client that kept calling me “sir”, and I remarked that there was no need for this, (I felt like a drill seargeant), but he explained to me that because he was from the South, they were taught early on to say “Sir” and “”Ma’am” as a way of respect.
…so, it can be hard to tell, but if you have an Anglo accent, I think most people will give you leeway and eventually you’ll be able to play it by ear.

Chico/Chica sounds to informal to me. “Oye Tío” definitely too informal, and in my part of the world, we only use “tío” to mean “uncle”, not “dude”. “Disculpe” (pardon me) sounds fine to me, but having said all of that, it all depends on which country/region you are at. Once I complete my Camino, my perspectives on this topic might change…

Edited to add: I was never, ever able to grasp the “vosotros” use, because it’s simply not used in my island, it sounds to me antiquated, like the English “thou”, which can be understood when reading literary works but not commonly used. I imagine I’ll be schooled in peninsular Spanish when I get there! So much to learn…

 

[Ivan_Prada]

I thought that vos wasn't used in Spain.

That I don’t know, but when I was in school, it was taught when studying the verb conjugations. It may be in certain areas, as it used also in areas (small) of Central and South America. In the Caribbean for certain is not used ( my area); but it is studied as part of the Spanish grammar.

 

[Kathor1]

The confusion arises because there are two singular tense persons (Tu and Vos) and two plural tense persons (Ustedes and Vosotros).

I think that you meant to say (tu and usted) and (ustedes and vosotros) for Spanish usage in Spain?

I understand that this can be confusing for native English speakers because there is only “you” in English but this is not the issue for speakers of German and French for example. For them it is mainly a cultural issue, and I for example have not heard enough Spanish as it is used in Spain in a variety of situations to be familiar with current usage and comfortable with how I use personal pronouns in Spanish in Spain.

Of course there is a level of tolerance and goodwill towards non-native speakers of Spanish, especially when they are not fluent but that doesn’t stop some of us from wanting to know …

 

[peregrina2000]

any views on the use of Chico/a to attract the attention of wait staff and bar tenders?

I’ll bet you remember the days when the most common way to get a waiter’s attention in Spain was to kind of hiss - put your tongue behind your top teeth and blow out air. I don’t think I’ve heard that in years. I think the easiest thing to do is to make eye contact and then a small wave or raise your finger. I don’t think I’d use chico or chica.

 

[trecile]

That I don’t know, but when I was in school, it was taught when studying the verb conjugations. It may be in certain areas, as it used also in areas (small) of Central and South America. In the Caribbean for certain is not used ( my area); but it is studied as part of the Spanish grammar.

I found this

 

[Ivan_Prada]

I think that you meant to say (tu and usted) and (ustedes and vosotros) for Spanish usage in Spain?

I understand that this can be confusing for native English speakers because there is only “you” in English but this is not the issue for speakers of German and French for example. For them it is mainly a cultural issue, and I for example have not heard enough Spanish as it is used in Spain in a variety of situations to be familiar with current usage and comfortable with how I use personal pronouns in Spanish in Spain.

Of course there is a level of tolerance and goodwill towards non-native speakers of Spanish, especially when they are not fluent but that doesn’t stop some of us from wanting to know …

Yes, you are right!

As my reply to @tresile, I studied the vos/vosotros; this because the Spanish literature classics were part of the curriculum. And of course, the modern usted/ustedes, which is of common usage. The later I used in Spain without problems to be understood.

 

[Ivan_Prada]

I found this

View attachment 163514

Yes, what I said, but no too specific as your finding.

 

[Kathor1]

remember the days when the most common way to get a waiter’s attention in Spain was to kind of hiss - put your tongue behind your top teeth and blow out air. I don’t think I’ve heard that in years.

How fascinating, I didn't know about this at all and have never heard or observed it! But then, when we started to go on holiday in Spain many decades ago it was in areas with sun, sea, sand and servers / waiting staff who spoke German and English and our Spanish did not go much further than teaching our kid to say "un helado por favor".

I had to google this. The word for making this sound is apparently chistar and there are videos where you can hear it. The first one that I found was this one (just to hear the sound). Fascinating piece of history ...

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

There are a lot (plethora ) of YouTube videos explaining the different usages of ustedes and vosotros but in this Linguriosa video Elena talks about the various forms of you in Spanish and how they came about. The Spanish is not terribly difficult but you can turn on English subtitles if you click the title below instead of the arrow. That will invoke the YouTube app instead of getting an embedded video.

 

[MariaSP]

Now that this thread has come alive again: @MariaSP and any other Spanish speakers living in Spain, what would you use or advise a foreign pilgrim with only a smattering of Spanish to use in these situations as personal address: tu or usted?

bus driver in local bus; or taxi driver​

cashier at small supermarket; or salesperson in El Corte Inglés​

staff at reception desk of small hotel; or casa rural​

Let's say everybody involved is younger than 70 - or feels like this - but not younger than 30.

FWIW, my policy is to avoid tu and usted verb forms as a matter of principle when I am not certain; to wait and see what the other person uses; to stick to my usual habits as to tutoyer and Siezen and Duzen in French and German but things are changing there, too, and are becoming more informal.

To be honest, if it's obvious your Spanish is very limited but you're still making the effort, nobody is going to get offended because you're using tú or usted.
Some of those people you mention will probably address you as "usted", because you're a customer (although your age would be another important factor). I wouldn't stress about how to address them. As I said, it's obvious you're not a native speaker and your efforts will be appreciated anyway. Personally, I tend to decide on the spot based on the age of the other person and the general vibe... I know it's not very scientific and may not be of much help but that's just the way it is...

 

[MariaSP]

"chico/a" does not sound respectful.

Yes, I would avoid "Chico/a".

 

[witsendwv]

In Spain on the way I was instructed to buenos días until around lunch and buenas tardes usage starts around lunch time, 2:00 or so.

When we walked our first camino out of Sarria we met a farmer in his garden. I said buenas tardes and asked what vegetable was growing there. Before he told me the name of the plant he told me in no uncertain terms that buenas tardes was not to be used before 6PM!! I generally use tu, but once while lost in Madrid looking for a concert venue I approached a lady that looked like my Nana- I definitely used Ud. I am trying to learn vosotros because it was never taught to me, but I find that my ears are hearing it more and more when we are in Spain.

 

[Pelegrin]

When I visited Mexico forty years ago I realized that people of my age or younger didn't like to be treated of " tu" when for example asking for a street. At that time that treatment of " tu" in that case was the normal in Spain. If I visited again Latin America I would use always " usted" just in case.

 

[HBS60]

It seems the You Tube algorithms knows what I’ve been reading, because this just showed up in my feed. This is an Andalusian Spanish teacher that I think explains it very well.This is oriented towards Spain, it’s different in Latin American countries. Close captions in Spanish but there is an auto translate option.

 

[NorthernLight]

While we're "off" the subject - any views on the use of Chico/a to attract the attention of wait staff and bar tenders? I here it frequently in the sorts of bars where the staff are generally on the youngish side (should probably still be in school ). It would seem totally inappropriate when the camarero is dressed in black trousers, white shirt and waistcoat and is probably my contemporary. "Atención" kind of works but I'm never sure whether there's a better alternative to the traditional "Oi!"

I’d use Señor or Señora. They are working and likely would appreciate the respect.

Perhaps that’s the reason the waitress at a certain restaurant served me before a pile of pilgrims who had gotten there before me….

 

[David Tallan]

Before he told me the name of the plant he told me in no uncertain terms that buenas tardes was not to be used before 6PM!!

I've always heard from Spanish people that buenas tardes was to be used after comida. I guess he eats his main meal later than most.