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I attended a Pilgrim's meetup at the biggest fraternity of St. James in northern Germany 8 months prior my departure. I am baptized and raised in lutheranean christianity. Never been really serious about my religion and my believes.I wouldn't have interpreted @Rebekah Scott's remarks this way. However, her call to consider that a pilgrimage should have a spiritual purpose might challenge both those who consider themselves religious as well as those who don't. This doesn't preclude anyone walking the Camino routes, but it does go to whether they might be entitled to the support offered to pilgrims along the way, and to receive the Compostala when they complete their journey.
Of course, anyone can walk the camino, and there are lots of anyones these days. For more than 99% of the history of this camino, it was a camino walked for the following reasons: religious, spiritual, emotional. You can break that down to those walking as matter of a) faith, b) religious blessings (plenary indulgence), c) finding themselves, d) atonement, e) seeking guidance, and f) petitions (of which there were a zillion), g) thanksgiving. The Camino was The Way to seek these very human objectives that go back in the history of pilgrimages to sacred sites to pre-history, long before Christianity.I wouldn't have interpreted @Rebekah Scott's remarks this way. However, her call to consider that a pilgrimage should have a spiritual purpose might challenge both those who consider themselves religious as well as those who don't. This doesn't preclude anyone walking the Camino routes, but it does go to whether they might be entitled to the support offered to pilgrims along the way, and to receive the Compostala when they complete their journey.
Does this make the camino less of a camino? No. But it does radically change what it means. For only a small number, it remains The Way.
I've come across a number of people whose lives have been changed by walks from Sarria and who have had deeply spiritual experiences. I would certainly argue against such a generalization.Ivar and others continue to report that those who walk from Sarria and Tui say they felt nothing spiritual or moving. It was just another walk. That's sad.
Like SabineP, I've had valuable conversations with people who started at Sarria. This is like saying that people who started in Le Puy can't have valuable conversations with people who started in SJPP, or people who started in Geneva can talk to practically no one.Watch one of Ivar's recent videos. He was interviewing the guy behind wise pilgrim, as I recall. Not my words...theirs. I don't want shorter caminos, so I wouldn't know. But I recall being warned that when I reached Sarria and joined the crowds, there would be an element of us (the long walkers) vs them, especially when would be chatting in the albergue. I didn't find that true because there was no point in me talking about what happened before. They couldn't relate and it really wouldn't matter to them.
In the past 10-15 years, this has changed...dramatically. I'm not aware that anyone has drilled deep into the reasons why people walk the camino,
but I would expect that the 7 reasons noted above have fallen to less than 10 percent, especially in most recent years, including this year.
Of course, anyone can walk the camino, and there are lots of anyones these days. For more than 99% of the history of this camino, it was a camino walked for the following reasons: religious, spiritual, emotional. You can break that down to those walking as matter of a) faith, b) religious blessings (plenary indulgence), c) finding themselves, d) atonement, e) seeking guidance, and f) petitions (of which there were a zillion), g) thanksgiving.
I assume you were referring to the specific holidays in Canada and the U.S. Not sure why other countries don't have such a special day, which for North Americans is a cherished time. But...we have encountered many, many pilgrims from all over the world who were walking to give thanks for blessings received, whether specific or general. At least three peregrinos I can recall were walking to give thanks for being cured of cancer. Giving thanks is indeed a universal human emotion.Not sure why you assume this. There is a huge amount of academic research about the modern revival of pilgrimage and the motivations of people walking the camino. A lot of it is available on the internet.
Read some of this research, it may change your assumptions.
Thanksgiving being one of the main reasons for walking the camino throughout history ? I am sorry but it seems your vision is a bit blurred by a north american perspective - thanksgiving does not mean much (and has never meant much) outside the USA and Canada.
I wrote in haste. My grandmother, if she were alive, would be scolding me. Italy has the Festa del Ringraziamento. Somewhat like our Thanksgiving, it is a feast day of thanks for the harvest. I assume many other countries have harvest festivals to give thanks. We have always timed our caminos to enjoy the Feast of San Matteo, a harvest festival that is so delightful in larger towns like Logrono and Oviedo, to the smallest of villages. It is indeed one of the treasures of the camino.I assume you were referring to the specific holidays in Canada and the U.S. Not sure why other countries don't have such a special day, which for North Americans is a cherished time. But...we have encountered many, many pilgrims from all over the world who were walking to give thanks for blessings received, whether specific or general. At least three peregrinos I can recall were walking to give thanks for being cured of cancer. Giving thanks is indeed a universal human emotion.
I am trying to stay out of this discussion but really ... 99% of the history of this camino? How long is "history" in this context: The last 12 years? The last 20 years?For more than 99% of the history of this camino, it was a camino walked for the following reasons: religious, spiritual, emotional. You can break that down to those walking as matter of a) faith, b) religious blessings (plenary indulgence), c) finding themselves, d) atonement, e) seeking guidance, and f) petitions (of which there were a zillion), g) thanksgiving.
He wrote thanksgiving with a lowercase t, meaning giving thanks, not as the holiday in North America with an uppercase T.Thanksgiving being one of the main reasons for walking the camino throughout history ? I am sorry but it seems your vision is a bit blurred by a north american perspective - thanksgiving does not mean much (and has never meant much) outside the USA and Canada.
He wrote thanksgiving with a lowercase T, meaning giving thanks, not as the holiday in North America with an uppercase
I assume you were referring to the specific holidays in Canada and the U.S. Not sure why other countries don't have such a special day, which for North Americans is a cherished time.
True. However, walking on foot for 30 days to give thanks? Isn't that a truly modern concept? And, let's get back to the essential question, would not 20 days of giving thanks on foot do, or does it have to be 35 days on foot from SJPP?Doing an act to give thanks seems to be pretty universal
How important was it to you to do what might be called the "full" CF from SJPP to Santiago in one go?
The "big hill" was big to me and I'm sure it is to many people.The ‘big hill’ isn’t particularly big and any start-point other than your doorstep or parish church is someone else’s definition of a Camino, as you clearly already appreciate.
How can others’ experience inform or validate your decision?
How important was it to you to do what might be called the "full" CF from SJPP to Santiago in one go?
I know a lot of people split it up into stages for various reasons (health, time, money), while some prefer the one long journey, and perhaps some people would only do the whole thing in one go.
(the background to this question is that due to a discussion with my buddy about CF, I realize I have a very strong desire about doing CF SJPP-SDC in one go, yet perhaps strangely I would have no problem splitting up any of the other routes if necessary. For instance, I would easily agree to split up Le Puy to SJPP if needed.
My friend also prefers to do the CF in one trip but may end up only being able to split up the CF into a couple trips. So I am just reassessing my own thoughts about it all before we have to make a decision. Right now it looks like we will be doing it all at once but I want to be prepared)
What was your experience? Either doing it in stages or in one long go, were you happy with your decision? Would you do it differently?
If you are still in the planning stages, what are your thoughts about this?
And also to escape punishment for crimes, to take on a lover in a foreign land, to make money ... the medieval accounts contain plenty of stories of "bad" pilgrims!Of course, anyone can walk the camino, and there are lots of anyones these days. For more than 99% of the history of this camino, it was a camino walked for the following reasons: religious, spiritual, emotional. You can break that down to those walking as matter of a) faith, b) religious blessings (plenary indulgence), c) finding themselves, d) atonement, e) seeking guidance, and f) petitions (of which there were a zillion), g) thanksgiving. The Camino was The Way to seek these very human objectives that go back in the history of pilgrimages to sacred sites to pre-history, long before Christianity.
I think he means lierally giving thanks rather than marking a celebration that did not exist for the first 8 (?) centuries of the camino's existence.Not sure why you assume this. There is a huge amount of academic research about the modern revival of pilgrimage and the motivations of people walking the camino. A lot of it is available on the internet.
Read some of this research, it may change your assumptions.
Thanksgiving being one of the main reasons for walking the camino throughout history ? I am sorry but it seems your vision is a bit blurred by a north american perspective - thanksgiving does not mean much (and has never meant much) outside the USA and Canada.
I had thought I would never be able to get 6 weeks off work to do the French Camino from stjdp so was planning on doing it in 2 week chunks over a few years. Then my husbands employer gave him the chance of a 6 week break which he jumped at. I used his 60th burthday as an excuse and told my employer he really wanted us to walk the full Camino together! I was granted the leave too so we set off in September 2016. We actually walked it in 29 days ( loved walking so much we didn't want to take a day off or lose the Camino family we had gathered). So we had time to do other walks like Coruña to Santiago, Muxia to Finisterre, the Cees islands from Vigo and also spend time in Santiago. Although originally unplanned, I was so grateful that we had that time together, so much so that long distance walking is now our holiday "thing". Also after 6 weeks you learn what is most important for everyone ie. Food, a shower, a bed and of course family and friends. Possessions are unimportant.How important was it to you to do what might be called the "full" CF from SJPP to Santiago in one go?
I know a lot of people split it up into stages for various reasons (health, time, money), while some prefer the one long journey, and perhaps some people would only do the whole thing in one go.
(the background to this question is that due to a discussion with my buddy about CF, I realize I have a very strong desire about doing CF SJPP-SDC in one go, yet perhaps strangely I would have no problem splitting up any of the other routes if necessary. For instance, I would easily agree to split up Le Puy to SJPP if needed.
My friend also prefers to do the CF in one trip but may end up only being able to split up the CF into a couple trips. So I am just reassessing my own thoughts about it all before we have to make a decision. Right now it looks like we will be doing it all at once but I want to be prepared)
What was your experience? Either doing it in stages or in one long go, were you happy with your decision? Would you do it differently?
If you are still in the planning stages, what are your thoughts about this?
After walking from Roncesvalles to Santiago in 2002 I decided that I wanted to do the most used, historical route from Paris to the Pyrenees but there were no guidebooks from Paris itself, only from Orleans. So in 2004 a friend and I walked a Paris Pilgrim trail in Paris, got a train to outside Orleans and walked grom there to there Roncesvalles. It was a shock walking into St Jean! After weeks of no pilgrims the Rue de la Citadelle had wall to wall pilgrims and all the beds were taken. A French speaking Pilgrim grumbled about the "short-haul' pilgrims taking all the beds, leaving nowhere for us 'real' pilgrims to sleep! Whenever I walk through Sarria and hear pilgrims who've started in St Jean complaining about the crowds of new pilgrims I just smile! There will always be someone whose walked further and for longer than me.I attended a Pilgrim's meetup at the biggest fraternity of St. James in northern Germany 8 months prior my departure. I am baptized and raised in lutheranean christianity. Never been really serious about my religion and my believes.
But an older Pilgrim at this meetup told me: you may start as a walker, but you will be a pilgrim somehow on arrival. That's exactly what happened.
When I had walked about 1200km of the way from Canterbury to Rome I met a man walking the opposite direction. Philippe had started in Santiago, walked to Rome, then Assisi, and was now walking to Strasbourg to see family there. Made my walk feel like an afternoon stroll by comparison!There will always be someone whose walked further and for longer than me.
I loved doing it in stages when I look back at my first Camino from SJPDP to Santiago in 2012. Stage one ended in Burgos. Stage 2 ended in Ponferrada and stage 3 in Muxia. I would get the excitement of planning the next stage and it prolonged the adventure. I did the French Way again in 2016 in just 2 stages and maybe one day I’ll have time to do it in one. Whichever way you do it, it will be wonderful. I met pilgrims each time, some of whom I’m still in contact with, though two have since passed away. Of course it rather depends on whether you have the luxury of being in Europe like me, rather than the far flung. Enjoy the planning!How important was it to you to do what might be called the "full" CF from SJPP to Santiago in one go?
I know a lot of people split it up into stages for various reasons (health, time, money), while some prefer the one long journey, and perhaps some people would only do the whole thing in one go.
(the background to this question is that due to a discussion with my buddy about CF, I realize I have a very strong desire about doing CF SJPP-SDC in one go, yet perhaps strangely I would have no problem splitting up any of the other routes if necessary. For instance, I would easily agree to split up Le Puy to SJPP if needed.
My friend also prefers to do the CF in one trip but may end up only being able to split up the CF into a couple trips. So I am just reassessing my own thoughts about it all before we have to make a decision. Right now it looks like we will be doing it all at once but I want to be prepared)
What was your experience? Either doing it in stages or in one long go, were you happy with your decision? Would you do it differently?
If you are still in the planning stages, what are your thoughts about this?
I like your putting pilgrim/walker in question marks. It reminds me of a recent conversation.I am not wanting a disagreement but does the comment about "anything goes tourist vacationland" mean non-religious people shouldn't walk the/a Camino route? Because I am not religious I guess I am on vacation undertaking a long walk. I respect that for others it is a religious experience although in all my discussions with fellow pilgrims (??walkers??) I have never met anyone who didn't think that it was an enjoyable experience with fellow people no matter their own beliefs. It also has the benefit of putting some funds into the much-needed villages along "The Way".
I had a similar reaction one very, very early morning in Puente de Reina when I chatted with a young man as we ate a quick breakfast. He started in Brussels. Another time in Hostana, we had a communal meal with 4 French who had started in Arle. They looked so fresh, so radiant. I was humbled, as the camino can do, but also felt so proud of their accomplishment and their attitude.When I had walked about 1200km of the way from Canterbury to Rome I met a man walking the opposite direction. Philippe had started in Santiago, walked to Rome, then Assisi, and was now walking to Strasbourg to see family there. Made my walk feel like an afternoon stroll by comparison!
To me the Camino is to be enjoyed and not rushed. It's more important to take time than be dictated to by time - ideally! Personally I found the changes I experienced only started after walking alone for about 15 days. It was winter and I started in Pamplona at the end of January (too much snow to start before Pamplona).How important was it to you to do what might be called the "full" CF from SJPP to Santiago in one go?
I know a lot of people split it up into stages for various reasons (health, time, money), while some prefer the one long journey, and perhaps some people would only do the whole thing in one go.
(the background to this question is that due to a discussion with my buddy about CF, I realize I have a very strong desire about doing CF SJPP-SDC in one go, yet perhaps strangely I would have no problem splitting up any of the other routes if necessary. For instance, I would easily agree to split up Le Puy to SJPP if needed.
My friend also prefers to do the CF in one trip but may end up only being able to split up the CF into a couple trips. So I am just reassessing my own thoughts about it all before we have to make a decision. Right now it looks like we will be doing it all at once but I want to be prepared)
What was your experience? Either doing it in stages or in one long go, were you happy with your decision? Would you do it differently?
If you are still in the planning stages, what are your thoughts about this?
My way is clearly not the only way. But the Camino de Santiago is a Thing. It is not whatever you want it to be. It is first and foremost and historically a pilgrimage. IMHO it ought to be respected as such, and not watered-down into a short-hop anything-goes tourist vacationland.
But that's just me.
For myself to do the CdS from SJPDP to Santiago was the dream and it was realized. One reason was because I never conceived of doing it in stages and for a lesser reason the fact that I live on an Island in British Columbia, Canada the cost of the tickets to Europe start to add up as well as the time off work it just made sense to do it in one go. I am so thankful that I did do it in one goHow important was it to you to do what might be called the "full" CF from SJPP to Santiago in one go?
I know a lot of people split it up into stages for various reasons (health, time, money), while some prefer the one long journey, and perhaps some people would only do the whole thing in one go.
(the background to this question is that due to a discussion with my buddy about CF, I realize I have a very strong desire about doing CF SJPP-SDC in one go, yet perhaps strangely I would have no problem splitting up any of the other routes if necessary. For instance, I would easily agree to split up Le Puy to SJPP if needed.
My friend also prefers to do the CF in one trip but may end up only being able to split up the CF into a couple trips. So I am just reassessing my own thoughts about it all before we have to make a decision. Right now it looks like we will be doing it all at once but I want to be prepared)
What was your experience? Either doing it in stages or in one long go, were you happy with your decision? Would you do it differently?
If you are still in the planning stages, what are your thoughts about this?
It was very important to me. In 2019, I started in SJPP and as I neared Santiago, I got a bronchial infection. I kept walking, but finally had to taxi the last two stages into Santiago (turned out I had pneumonia). I returned in 2021, again started in SJPP and walked on to Finisterre. I was thrilled to walk a second time. Now I plan a modified walk for 2023 starting in Pamplona to Burgos, then Astorga to Santiago. The rhythm of walking day after day after day. Becoming one with the path. The ebb and flow over many weeks of the people one meets. The distance from daily concerns that becomes greater day by day. I only got my "Camino body" after a couple of weeks.. and probably didn't get my "Camino mind and spirit" after that.How important was it to you to do what might be called the "full" CF from SJPP to Santiago in one go?
I know a lot of people split it up into stages for various reasons (health, time, money), while some prefer the one long journey, and perhaps some people would only do the whole thing in one go.
(the background to this question is that due to a discussion with my buddy about CF, I realize I have a very strong desire about doing CF SJPP-SDC in one go, yet perhaps strangely I would have no problem splitting up any of the other routes if necessary. For instance, I would easily agree to split up Le Puy to SJPP if needed.
My friend also prefers to do the CF in one trip but may end up only being able to split up the CF into a couple trips. So I am just reassessing my own thoughts about it all before we have to make a decision. Right now it looks like we will be doing it all at once but I want to be prepared)
What was your experience? Either doing it in stages or in one long go, were you happy with your decision? Would you do it differently?
If you are still in the planning stages, what are your thoughts about this?
For me, The starting point wasn't important as such other than walking the 3500 km from my home wasn't an option. I knew I wanted to walk across the mountains and since I hadn't done a spanish camino before, I guess SJdPP felt the most comfortable option.
Next time I will start anywhere else than SJdPP!
What turned out to be important to me however, was carrying my backpack all the way to the ocean!
This Idea wasn't something I had before starting, quite the opposite, before starting I thought that sending the backpack ahead could come in handy if I was struggling for some reason.
Once on the camino that somehow changed as I did actually struggle with my shoulders some days, but no, I just couldn't get myself to send the backpack ahead..
Not even the day walking to Leon where I was struggling with fever and my body ached so badly I caught myself thinking: "If I faint now, at least someone will find me in a few minutes". (Turns out I had caught covid, so my one planned rest day in Leon became 5 days in a hotel)
Strange how things that are completely insignificant can become important.
You're right about starting in Porto. We researched the camino from Lisbon and every time we thought we would start at a certain place after Lisbon, we said no. In Porto, we met a number of walkers who started in Lisbon and none had good things to say about it.. They had done it and were proud of that, but they all said it ranked at the bottom of caminos they had walked.I've been pondering this question more as I plan future caminos, and I'm finding that what is very important to me is often arbitrary & makes no sense.
For the CF, I'd say that starting in Saint Jean or Roncesvalles is very important. I don't think walking in stages, or doing a shorter section, would've had the same impact.
But I'm planning on walking different stages along the Via Francigena in the future, and I don't care at all that the stages won't be contiguous, or that I won't walk the full VF. And yet next Spring it will be very important that I start in Lucca, and not somewhere else in Tuscany. Why? I don't know. Because Sandy Brown's guidebook starts there? Because it's a larger town? Because it just sounds cooler to say "Lucca to Rome" rather than "Altopascio to Rome?" I don't have a good answer ... there's nothing historically special about starting in Lucca ... and yet that's where my gut tells me I need to start.
And in 2024 a friend wants to "do" the Caminho Português* from Porto. I don't have any desire to either walk the full CP from Lisbon, or to only walk the last 100 km from Tui. Starting in Porto feels just fine to me.
* The friend wants to join a seven-day bike tour for €2500 euro. That is not going to happen. I've agreed to time it so I meet him at the end, in Santiago.
I had never heard of a Camino until I needed something to read on vacation and bought the book 'Spanish Steps' at a thrift shop many years ago. I was taken by the idea of religious pilgrims walking for a purpose, others for spiritual reasons, some trying to find themselves or clear their heads and still others purely for an adventure. The idea of divesting oneself of material possessions, schedules, everyday routines and simply making the journey is very appealing. I was married, my wife had no desire to make the journey and wasn't willing to let me go alone. She couldn't understand why I felt I needed rather than wanted to do it. Now I'm divorced, I'm going in May 2023 and am excited by the prospect of going on my own terms, at my own pace and with few preconceptions. The forum helps me with things like planning and packing. Like you, I don't want to pre-live the journey through the eyes of others. Everyday will be a new adventure, a new discovery. I am so excited that my dream will soon be a reality.I walked my first Camino after reading just one account of the journey - Laurie Dennett's 1987 "A Hug for the Apostle". And I spoke at some length with my mother-in-law about her own Camino walk in 1985. No chat on internet forums. No watching Youtube videos. So I arrived in France on my first solo journey abroad with very little advance knowledge of the Caminos and with only very vague preconceptions of what it would be like. I am sure that the gradual revelations and frequent discoveries as I walked those 800km would have been a far less powerful and positive experience if I had already walked every step virtually through the eyes of a dozen authors and a hundred vloggers.
I do understand the reservation about going with a friend....very much so.For me - I would only do the longer routes. First week is breaking in physically, second week is maybe finding your physical groove. After that - you might start really getting into the "personal spirituality" or "reflection"... but that takes a couple weeks to go through. I personally don't feel like you get to those deep levels unless you have been on the trail for several weeks. And those I talk to who have done the longer hikes always say the same. Not sure most people can get into the deep levels of thought on Camino's that last a week or two. Maybe some do - but what you go through week after week changes... and the more time you are out on the trail, the more it seems to affect us. And if you are one who has lots of aches and pains the first week or two... you will never experience the joy that follows those days of aches and pains if you don't keep walking. Ok - some people never get past the aches and pains - but most of us do and we love it. That is why we keep going back.
I personally, however, would never go with a friend. A family member, maybe. But not with a friend. The Camino is such a personal experience and I am not sure I could do it with having to worry about whomever is walking with me day after day. Even family members I would think seriously about which ones I would consider taking with me.
There are several members of my local American Pilgrims group that are hesitant to start the Camino on their own, so I'm hoping to organize what I'm calling a "push start" Camino. I will walk with them from SJPdP to Pamplona, then I will take a bus and walk my Camino on the Norte. I'm planning to have training sessions with the group, and teach them how to do things like book accommodations, use Camino apps, use pack transport etc. so that they will be ready to fly from the nest (yes, I know that I'm mixing metaphorsA situation may arise for you wherein you get a "call" to be a "guide" for a friend or family member. Give it some thought, perhaps even some meditation. Ask yourself, "Why not?"
What a great idea, @trecile and you are a perfect one to implement it.There are several members of my local American Pilgrims group that are hesitant to start the Camino on their own, so I'm hoping to organize what I'm calling a "push start" Camino. I will walk with them from SJPdP to Pamplona, then I will take a bus and walk my Camino on the Norte. I'm planning to have training sessions with the group, and teach them how to do things like book accommodations, use Camino apps, use pack transport etc. so that they will be ready to fly from the nest (yes, I know that I'm mixing metaphors) by the time that we get to Pamplona.
There are several members of my local American Pilgrims group that are hesitant to start the Camino on their own, so I'm hoping to organize what I'm calling a "push start" Camino. I will walk with them from SJPdP to Pamplona, then I will take a bus and walk my Camino on the Norte. I'm planning to have training sessions with the group, and teach them how to do things like book accommodations, use Camino apps, use pack transport etc. so that they will be ready to fly from the nest (yes, I know that I'm mixing metaphors) by the time that we get to Pamplona.
Sounds like a great idea.....
Maybe once they fly from the nest........turn your phone off!
She nearly covers them both already with all the helpful advise she offers here on the forum, especially to newbies who have questions.You might end up being a remote tour guide and travel agent.
Yep - for some - they might be "called" to be a guide. I am sure it can be an amazing experience for some. Just not for me. Personally, I love the ability to be solo and weave in and out of group situations without worrying about a companion. I get great therapeutic benefits during my alone time and more importantly - not having to worry about anything or anyone while I am on the Camino. And I have also seen and experienced too many times that traveling with Companions adds unintended stress - not something I want for my pilgrimage. Life is stressful enough - I want to remove all stress from my pilgrimage. But it is great that others want to share the experience with a friend. Maybe someday my view of that will change - and I am open to it - but I doubt it!I do understand the reservation about going with a friend....very much so.
However, if an experienced pilgrim reads this and nods... a bit of counsel (from a complete idiot, yes) - -
A situation may arise for you wherein you get a "call" to be a "guide" for a friend or family member. Give it some thought, perhaps even some meditation. Ask yourself, "Why not?"
In the midst of the many days of walking, some may not be fun, but the long-term rewards can be amazing. One of which is a deeper appreciation of the Camino itself.
B
I do understand the reservation about going with a friend....very much so.
However, if an experienced pilgrim reads this and nods... a bit of counsel (from a complete idiot, yes) - -
A situation may arise for you wherein you get a "call" to be a "guide" for a friend or family member. Give it some thought, perhaps even some meditation. Ask yourself, "Why not?"
In the midst of the many days of walking, some may not be fun, but the long-term rewards can be amazing. One of which is a deeper appreciation of the Camino itself.
B
There are several members of my local American Pilgrims group that are hesitant to start the Camino on their own, so I'm hoping to organize what I'm calling a "push start" Camino. Ina.
I was planning to walk in 2020 and was in a similar situation (recently bereaved) but actually found that my experience during the pandemic was life-changing in a similar way, so don't necessarily feel the need to walk right now, though I do intend to in future.Since ths thread has strayed slightly into bringing others with on Camino, I'll ad this...
I had invited 3 in-laws to join me in 2020 although they had not asked to come. They all said "yes"(I then planned every detail) as each of them had their spouse pass away the previous year or two. I knew they were lonely and struggling emotionally. I have no idea how it would have all played out because the pandemic kept it from happening and everything jad to be cancelled. Since then, none of them have hinted/suggested they would like to still join me, and now they all have moved on and are happy in new relationships...which is a relief for me.
I intermix my Caminos with other travels; no need to have camino tunnel vision if funds are not an issue.
Throughout history, making a pilgrimage to give thanks has been widely practised. The most recent is Lionel Messi, one of the greatest footballers of all time. He promised to make a pilgrimage from his native village in Argentina to the shrine of Our Lady in Rosario. That's only a one day walk, but there are those who walked a thousand miles or more to give thanks in previous times. These days, you hop on a plane to Lourdes or Fatima or another shrine.True. However, walking on foot for 30 days to give thanks? Isn't that a truly modern concept? And, let's get back to the essential question, would not 20 days of giving thanks on foot do, or does it have to be 35 days on foot from SJPP?
And in order to prevent another weird excursion into history: In those days long ago, most people did not travel somewhere by transport means available to them to a location far away and then embarked on a 500 mile journey on foot from there to Santiago. They walked on foot all the way from home because they had no other means of travel and they wanted to give their thanks to the saint in a location where he or she was more present than elsewhere (in their view of things).
I fear, as so many times before, that I must again have failed to make my point clear.Throughout history, making a pilgrimage to give thanks has been widely practised
Since you are being picky, I hope to end this with more clarification. You are confusing vows with petitions. Vows are unconditional, as those entering religious life or those entering marriage make. Whether one fulfills them or not is up to the persons making them. Petitions can be requests with nothing promised by the petitioner or can carry a promise if the petition is fulfilled. These reflect thanks for the petition being granted. These are conditional petitions. One assumes that Messi's was a prayer of petition with a pledge to do a pilgrimage as a gesture of thanks. Unlike Don Corleone, I never considered that Our Lady or God expect thanks. Messi clearly felt that his team needed this extra boost. And they got it. I bet there are plenty of Argentines saw the hand of Our Lady blocking some of the kicks by the French in the shoot out!I fear, as so many times before, that I must again have failed to make my point clear.
But, whatever, and despite the fact that Lionel Messi is not exactly an incarnation of Medieval Man and His Mindset for me, this made me curious enough to google for Messi pilgrimage. The first thing that came up was an item by Catholic World News that says:
CWN Editor's Note: Lionel Messi, the star of the Argentine soccer team, had vowed to make a pilgrimage to a Marian shrine if the team won the World Cup—as it did last Sunday. In 2018 Messi, who is a practicing Catholic, told an interviewer that if he won the World Cup, he would walk from his home to the shrine of Our Lady of the Rosary at San Nicolas, a distance of about 25 miles.So this is more about fulfilling a previously made vow than about the giving of thanks as such and also not a full month‘s worth of walking but more a day walk. At least I assume that Lionel Messi can walk 25 miles in a day or two. Q.e.d.
That's why I'm just going to give my group the "push start" before going on my Camino.Yep - for some - they might be "called" to be a guide. I am sure it can be an amazing experience for some. Just not for me.
Actually, I did mean "calling" as from some mystical impulse, @David Tallan ! Sorry for the lack of clarity on my part.Since we've added the topic of walking with others to the topic of the importance of doing a "full" Camino, I'll talk a bit about my 2016 Camino. Leading up to 2016, I was feeling the call to do a Camino, although I was thinking it wouldn't be for another 8 or 10 years, until I retired. It was important to me that it be a "full" Camino, which for me at t he time was from Roncesvalles. My previous Camino (1989) had been from Roncesvalles and I wanted to do the same thing, but get it "right" this time.
Meanwhile, I had promised my son a trip for his 16th birthday in 2016, a trip for the two of us. He suggested that we do the Camino together. So I did what was needed to make it happen and in 2016 we walked from Roncesvalles to Finisterre. As Simply B suggests, the rewards from walking with someone can be amazing. At least, that was my experience.
BTW, when Simply B mentioned getting a "call" to be a "guide", I wasn't reading it as a "calling", like the "calling" to do the Camino (which seems to be how jeanineonthecamino read it, but rather a more literal call, as CWBuff describes friends and acquaintances saying they would love to go with, next time.
I think that is a great idea! Hope you can make it happen.That's why I'm just going to give my group the "push start" before going on my Camino.
In a weird way - that is not any different than any other type of vacation\trip et al as one would take with someone else. My brother and s-i-l actually did go on a cruise with a couple of their friends whom they knew at the time for close to 25 years. After the fact they said 'never again!'Maybe a cruise - I would do a cruise with friends. A weekend getaway? Sure! But not walk across a country with them.
LOL... I would not do a cruise around the world with a friend... that would be WAY too much time with someone! A 1 week or less cruise or vacation is what is tolerable to me... at most! But yes - with expectations and boundaries set.In a weird way - that is not any different than any other type of vacation\trip et al as one would take with someone else. My brother and s-i-l actually did go on a cruise with a couple of their friends whom they knew at the time for close to 25 years. After the fact they said 'never again!'
its all in the expectations and boundaries one has to set.
...Honestly I faster will walk Camino Frances with someone than go on (much pined after) Cruise around the World....
I was not too sure how I felt about doing any 'repeats' once I completed my Frances. On one hand - yes I would not mind doing Frances again or venture onto other Ways to try something new. On the other - the wife quipped that 'there is so much world out there' ... and in her own way she is right... plus she is not a hiker per se (although she did enjoy the short SdC-->Finisterre stint)....
But then I started get pummeled by friends and aquantences stating that they would LOVE to go with me "next time". Its like - in their mind - there were no questions whether or not I will go, just 'take them with me'
And so... who knows but 1/2 jokingly 1/2 serious I told 2 people to consider 2027 as a possibility. Hopefully that will be the year I retire and that will allow me to be more flexible with the time. The mentioned 2 people should have no problems with say 60-day overall trip.
...Perhaps it will be fun to play a guide and of course to catch up on some stuff I missed myself 1st time around....
...and perhaps if I do take my wife on one of her Viking European Castles River Cruise before that, she'll be more....er... understanding!
I had never heard of a Camino until I needed something to read on vacation and bought the book 'Spanish Steps' at a thrift shop many years ago.
..it becomes memorably apparent that for the multinational band of eccentrics who keep the Santiagan flame alive, the pilgrimage has evolved from a purely devotional undertaking into a mobile therapist's couch.
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