Fake charity scam back yet again

[Bradypus]

A Spanish news site is reporting that a long-running scam is back on the Frances. People accosting pilgrims asking for donations for a charity which will never receive them. Sadly a very old familiar story.

Alertan de que vuelven al Camino personas que abordan a peregrinos para pedirles dinero

Las fuerzas de seguridad fueron alertadas este sábado de que cuatro personas solicitaban dinero para supuestas causas benéficas en la zona de la Ponte da Áspera

www.elprogreso.es

 

[J Willhaus]

Yes, saw the two women just past Sarria snatch 20 Euros from a young Philippines boy traveling with a school group a few years ago and stuff it in her bra. Guardia Civil gave them the choice to come to the station and make a complaint while she was searched. Then saw the same two women working the crowd in Santiago a few days later. It was the "deaf" person charity scam.

 

[Esperanza]

Yes, we passed through that area last Sunday and were approached by people collecting signatures, and again today in front of the cathedral in Santiago. I will admit that neither time I even broke stride to see what they wanted, but shortly after the first incident, as we proceeded down the trail, we saw several Guardia Civil guys jogging towards them, so I figured it was something not allowed.

 

[David with new Kit!]

Yup, got acosted on the CF last year (can't remember where) I was aware of it, so didnt break my stride, just pleaded "no hablo español" and kept walking.

If I needed to sign up for a charity, I reckon there are enough deserving charities in my own country that I could (should) sign up to

 

[Scott Sweeney]

Yes, we passed through that area last Sunday and were approached by people collecting signatures, and again today in front of the cathedral in Santiago. I will admit that neither time I even broke stride to see what they wanted, but shortly after the first incident, as we proceeded down the trail, we saw several Guardia Civil guys jogging towards them, so I figured it was something not allowed.

We ran into some young people collecting signatures at Sacré-Cœur Basilica

Sacré-Cœur Basilica, we passed through that area last Sunday and were approached by people collecting signatures, and again today in front of the cathedral in Santiago. I will admit that neither time I even broke stride to see what they wanted, but shortly after the first incident, as we proceeded down the trail, we saw several Guardia Civil guys jogging towards them, so I figured it was something not allowed

 

[CarolamS]

This must be well worth their while; I was accosted by 2 women on the CP in 2018, something to do with deafness. They both could hear and they became quite unpleasant and insistent when I was genuinely confused. I can't quite remember but I don't think I gave them any money. It's tough because when you are in Pilgrim mode you are much more geared towards being helpful and generous. I wasn't staying in Albergues so I don't know if there were any warning notices. I didn't see anything in my accommodations. No doubt they circulate between favourite scam-spots!

 

[bullingtonce]

We ran into some young people collecting signatures at Sacré-Cœur Basilica

I have an odd observation in that I find this charity scam to be natural, helpful, and even healing as it mirrors what one often finds in life overall as in the cases of large, mainstream, organized, and well-known charities raking in millions upon millions of dollars and keeping most of the money while a small percentage goes to so-called beneficiaries. In addition, these people are scraping by in life as best they can. Not excusing their behavior, but it does mirror-reflect overall human nature. But what do I know? I have enough challenges as it is figuring out life and also trying to 'scrape' by. They are God's creatures, in any case. God bless them.

 

[NM99]

I figured it was a scam and that they’d likely be pocketing the money but gave 5€ anyway. I feel it’s my duty as a privileged pilgrim to leave a bit of money here and there and everywhere along the way. I tip servers too, and hotel staff as well if ever I use alternate accommodation. It doesn’t need to be much. They’re always grateful to receive more than nothing.

 

[Albertagirl]

I have an odd observation in that I find this charity scam to be natural, helpful, and even healing as it mirrors what one often finds in life overall as in the cases of large, mainstream, organized, and well-known charities raking in millions upon millions of dollars and keeping most of the money while a small percentage goes to so-called beneficiaries. In addition, these people are scraping by in life as best they can. Not excusing their behavior, but it does mirror-reflect overall human nature. But what do I know? I have enough challenges as it is figuring out life and also trying to 'scrape' by. They are God's creatures, in any case. God bless them.

From what I understand, these women are not working for themselves, but their takings are kept by those who control them, and provide them with enough to survive. I wish that there were some way that they could get some personal benefit out of doing something more rewarding, but I doubt that what they are doing now will bring them more than mere survival, if they succeed in getting/taking money from others.

 

[Pauline21Again]

Yes, saw the two women just past Sarria snatch 20 Euros from a young Philippines boy traveling with a school group a few years ago and stuff it in her bra. Guardia Civil gave them the choice to come to the station and make a complaint while she was searched. Then saw the same two women working the crowd in Santiago a few days later. It was the "deaf" person charity scam.

They were very forceful in your face. The first kind of anything apart from beggars on the street that I've seen on all on the way to date.

 

[Tincatinker]

If they’re being aggressive it suggests they’re getting desperate. They’ll be well aware of the likely action of the Guardia Civil if they’re reported.
The choice of whether to offer a blunt rebuff or a few €’s is entirely our own. But we should always be aware that any cash we surrender feeds a beast, not the girl

 

[Zordmot]

A Spanish news site is reporting that a long-running scam is back on the Frances. People accosting pilgrims asking for donations for a charity which will never receive them. Sadly a very old familiar story.

Alertan de que vuelven al Camino personas que abordan a peregrinos para pedirles dinero

Las fuerzas de seguridad fueron alertadas este sábado de que cuatro personas solicitaban dinero para supuestas causas benéficas en la zona de la Ponte da Áspera

www.elprogreso.es

Is there a non-emergency number to phone the police in Spain? I’m just wondering if when approached like this on the Camino one could pull out the phone and make such a call on the spot?

 

[C clearly]

Is there a non-emergency number to phone the police in Spain?

Use the Alert Cops app.

 

[dougfitz]

it mirrors what one often finds in life overall as in the cases of large, mainstream, organized, and well-known charities raking in millions upon millions of dollars and keeping most of the money while a small percentage goes to so-called beneficiaries.

I do understand the concern that the cost of operating charities can sometime appear quite large compared to the amounts they are able to distribute. However, I have never seen any where the operating costs exceed 50% of their revenue, as you have suggested here. If this isn't just hyperbole, are you prepared to name what you suggest are 'well-known charities' that have that level of operating expenses.

 

[Flog]

It's been said already but it's worth mentioning again that these women and others like them are generally victims themselves, forcefully put to work in busy, touristy places such as along the camino Frances and in the cities, controlled by.. well, pimps for want of a better word. And it's all too easy to judge: Their aggressive approach might not only be borne out of desperation to meet their targets, but there might be a cultural element too. I rarely give to beggars, but will happily throw a couple of coins to an artist/musician etc that I feel is 'earning' their keep so I guess that makes me judgemental too.
Guilty, your honour.

 

[J Willhaus]

We had seen warnings posted about this on the Camino in various town message boards. Just press on and wave them off. The Guardia Civil notices we saw referred to them as people of Romanian descent. Usually they will have a clipboard they want you to sign and pretend to be deaf. We met a man a few km later who was looking for them. Told us they were his sister and cousin presumably to 'give them a ride'.

 

[Kathy F.]

I remember this scam from years ago. I was approached by the deaf collectors with clipboards.
I guess things really are getting back to normal on the Camino and around the world. All we are missing is the discussion of what to do about bed bugs and about whether one is a "real" pilgrim if one gets one's bags transported!
JKJK! Buen Camino, everyone!!

 

[Sho]

Except none of this money goes to a charity, so it's more like theft.

I have an odd observation in that I find this charity scam to be natural, helpful, and even healing as it mirrors what one often finds in life overall as in the cases of large, mainstream, organized, and well-known charities raking in millions upon millions of dollars and keeping most of the money while a small percentage goes to so-called beneficiaries. In addition, these people are scraping by in life as best they can. Not excusing their behavior, but it does mirror-reflect overall human nature. But what do I know? I have enough challenges as it is figuring out life and also trying to 'scrape' by. They are God's creatures, in any case. God bless them.

 

[Kathar1na]

In addition, these people are scraping by in life as best they can

How do you know this? Did you speak to them and do you have reliable information about their backgrounds? I'd be curious to learn more.

Several years ago, I encountered two people with clipboards working the pilgrim crowd somewhere before or after Sarria, in the middle of the Camino Francés trail, just when you had left a small wooded area and several hundred meters before a small village. Luckily, I had been made aware of these scammers thanks to this forum. They were busy with getting money out of two pilgrims who had been walking ahead of me so I quickly bypassed the group. I am a coward: I did not interfere.

In my case, it was a man and a woman who were not dressed in the familiar clothes that members of criminal gangs from predominantly Romania wear when they operate in many EU countries during the summer months. So I guess that there are several different groups of operators at work on the Camino Francés in Galicia; some of them have been reported on this forum to have been physically aggressive towards unwilling pilgrims.

I strongly believe that nobody in Spain must get money from others by begging and stealing, either directly or through scams like this, to "scrape by in life". Material and financial support is available. I'd rather see nobody supporting this criminal business that searches out Camino pilgrims. There are other ways for pilgrims to practice a bit of charity, either while in Spain or at home.

In any case, these people are not begging. They are lying and collecting money under false pretense for Spanish charities for deaf people that either do not exist or will never see any of these 'donations'.

 

[Richard Smith]

We heard about them in 2016, on the CF before we met them, so I just brushed them aside.
I think there were three women then, with clipboards collecting signatures and then asking for donations, not sure but deaf people rings a bell for the charity.

 

[Tony Lenton]

I have an odd observation in that I find this charity scam to be natural, helpful, and even healing as it mirrors what one often finds in life overall as in the cases of large, mainstream, organized, and well-known charities raking in millions upon millions of dollars and keeping most of the money while a small percentage goes to so-called beneficiaries. In addition, these people are scraping by in life as best they can. Not excusing their behavior, but it does mirror-reflect overall human nature. But what do I know? I have enough challenges as it is figuring out life and also trying to 'scrape' by. They are God's creatures, in any case. God bless them.

God bless the burglars, drug dealers, pickpockets, tax avoiders and con artists, all of whom are seeking to scrape by, as are we all. Yes, we live in a cruel and unjust world but cheating, lying and tricking one another is no answer. Some people are less cynical than others and may be more easily duped. Indeed, they may be the more generous amongst us. The people perpetrating this scam are no better than people who steal charity boxes. Unless someone is starving and, let’s face it some are, a resort to crime is an unpleasant choice.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I was approached by the "clipboard gals" on my first Camino. I did not speak to them, did not give them eye contact, but looked away instead and walked on. They left me alone and did not try to follow me.
The scammers I came across in Paris were much more persistent. Thankfully I had read about the scams ahead of time; the string scam(by two young men), and the gold ring scam (where a persistent, "kind" little old lady tried her hardest to get me to take the ring).

 

[Jeff Crawley]

I have an odd observation in that I find this charity scam to be natural, helpful, and even healing as it mirrors what one often finds in life overall as in the cases of large, mainstream, organized, and well-known charities raking in millions upon millions of dollars and keeping most of the money while a small percentage goes to so-called beneficiaries. In addition, these people are scraping by in life as best they can. Not excusing their behavior, but it does mirror-reflect overall human nature. But what do I know? I have enough challenges as it is figuring out life and also trying to 'scrape' by. They are God's creatures, in any case. God bless them.

The fact that what they are doing is both illegal and immoral leads me to doubt that God would look kindly on them - but hey, what do I know either? She might be feeling well disposed to criminal activity this month.

 

[Richard Smith]

I was approached by the "clipboard gals" on my first Camino. I did not speak to them, did not give them eye contact, but looked away instead and walked on. They left me alone and did not try to follow me.
The scammers I came across in Paris were much more persistent. Thankfully I had read about the scams ahead of time; the string scam(by two young men), and the gold ring scam (where a persistent, "kind" little old lady tried her hardest to get me to take the ring).

Scams can be fun to watch.
I was waiting in a market in Rome and there was a card scam going, something with two cards and a rubber band, with the main person and three people in the audience involved, one won money and one simple/old guy who showed how to win, etc. This was a gambling game so the victims hoped to make money, they were not donating to a worthy cause.
Anyway my wife was shopping in the market and I was waiting so I saw several iterations. At one point some others came behind us possibly to pickpocket (not sure) and the main scam actors chased them away with harsh words.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

You could always spend a few minutes learning the Lengua de Signos Espanola (LSE) finger alphabet (it's a bit different to ASL or even ISL) and spell out ¿Eres realmente sorda? and I'm sure you'll find out if they are really deaf!


(One of my nieces is a speech therapist and I now have BSL, ASL, ISL, LSE and LSF off pat - mostly similar except for the two hand British alphabet - you never know, you might make new friends!)

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Scams can be fun to watch.
I was waiting in a market in Rome and there was a card scam going, something with two cards and a rubber band, with the main person and three people in the audience involved, one won money and one simple/old guy who showed how to win, etc. This was a gambling game so the victims hoped to make money, they were not donating to a worthy cause.
Anyway my wife was shopping in the market and I was waiting so I saw several iterations. At one point some others came behind us possibly to pickpocket (not sure) and the main scam actors chased them away with harsh words.

Westminster bridge in London used to be a favoured spot for "find the lady" card games - as you say, stand back and look for their lookouts, their confederates but, most of all, keep your hand on your money!

 

[peregrino_tom]

what one often finds in life overall as in the cases of large, mainstream, organized, and well-known charities raking in millions upon millions of dollars and keeping most of the money while a small percentage goes to so-called beneficiaries

The primary purpose of a charity is very rarely to give money or grants to people with needs: it is more likely to be about improving the quality of those people's lives. Sometimes that may mean making grants or payments to individuals. But if you are a big charity you've probably worked out that continually making small payments to people in need actually changes nothing - you just keep having to find the money year after year to continue putting a plaster over people's misery.
Charities spend a lot of time employing some very capable people to try and work out where they can have the most impact. And often it's by influencing policy makers or public opinion, to change perceptions (of the population and elected officials) and thence laws, taxes, regulations, housing conditions etc.
Looking at the proportion of income that goes out as grants is really a superficial and misleading way of trying to understand whether a charity has good impact in line with achieving its mission.
Having said that, there are national organisations that do spend a lot of their time and resources maintaining their status as a leading organisation in their sector. And it is often very hard to judge whether that is fully justified or not!

 

[Tony Lenton]

I do understand the concern that the cost of operating charities can sometime appear quite large compared to the amounts they are able to distribute. However, I have never seen any where the operating costs exceed 50% of their revenue, as you have suggested here. If this isn't just hyperbole, are you prepared to name what you suggest are 'well-known charities' that have that level of operating expenses.

A report in 2015 by the True and Fair Foundation suggested that 1,020 voluntary organisations (not necessarily charities - my words) spent less than half their income on good causes. These included a number of charities, of which the best known were British Heart Foundation (46%), Sue Ryder (46%) and Age UK (48%). The Dogs Trust was 63%, Cancer Research Uk 64% with Guide Dogs for the Blind and RNLI on the same figure. Incidentally, I support the RNLI and The Dogs’ Trust.

 

[Albertagirl]

In the early days of vaccines for Covid, I received a begging letter from UNICEF, requesting that I make a donation for supplying vaccines for adults in developing countries. I had never donated to UNICEF and do not know know they got my contact information. However, I sent them enough money to vaccinate a certain number of adults, although their work has always been to benefit children. I hoped that these vaccinations would be carried out and I wanted to pay, somehow, for my vaccinations that I had not been required to pay for, and to help families in developing countries survive the pandemic. However, I could not guarantee if anyone was vaccinated as a result of my donation. I was willing to trust that someone was. This is clearly not the same situation as the young women trying to persuade/bully pilgrims on the camino to give them money for what seems to be a non-existent charity, which money goes to their handlers. It is a responsible action to try to see that charities which we support are being enabled to carry on their work through our donations. But, for me, I could not justify keeping my cash for my next camino because I am not qualified to judge the financial statements of the charities to which I donate.

 

[Marc S.]

A report in 2015 by the True and Fair Foundation suggested that 1,020 voluntary organisations (not necessarily charities - my words) spent less than half their income on good causes. These included a number of charities, of which the best known were British Heart Foundation (46%), Sue Ryder (46%) and Age UK (48%). The Dogs Trust was 63%, Cancer Research Uk 64% with Guide Dogs for the Blind and RNLI on the same figure. Incidentally, I support the RNLI and The Dogs’ Trust.

Getting off topic, I know, but there was some debate whether the report of the true and fair foundation is actually true and fair. In fact the Daily Telegraph that wrote an article about this report, later published a correction on their original article. I won't post any further links (just google true and fair foundation), as the forum is probably not meant for discussing the financial policies of charities

 

[Scott Sweeney]

This must be well worth their while; I was accosted by 2 women on the CP in 2018, something to do with deafness. They both could hear and they became quite unpleasant and insistent when I was genuinely confused. I can't quite remember but I don't think I gave them any money. It's tough because when you are in Pilgrim mode you are much more geared towards being helpful and generous. I wasn't staying in Albergues so I don't know if there were any warning notices. I didn't see anything in my accommodations. No doubt they circulate between favourite scam-spots!

And they know people are in a helpful way, that's why the scams work so well.

 

[JZA]

A Spanish news site is reporting that a long-running scam is back on the Frances. People accosting pilgrims asking for donations for a charity which will never receive them. Sadly a very old familiar story.

Alertan de que vuelven al Camino personas que abordan a peregrinos para pedirles dinero

Las fuerzas de seguridad fueron alertadas este sábado de que cuatro personas solicitaban dinero para supuestas causas benéficas en la zona de la Ponte da Áspera

www.elprogreso.es

I was accosted a couple of times in SdC by a younger woman with a clipboard with signatures on the paper. I didn’t engage because it looked 100% dodgy. Even the genuine street collectors are questionable. The get paid a substantial percentage of the money they collect, at least in the UK. I have a couple of charities I give a bit of money to but never engage on the street. Seems to be the safest way.

 

[dougfitz]

A report in 2015 by the True and Fair Foundation suggested that 1,020 voluntary organisations (not necessarily charities - my words) spent less than half their income on good causes. These included a number of charities, of which the best known were British Heart Foundation (46%), Sue Ryder (46%) and Age UK (48%). The Dogs Trust was 63%, Cancer Research Uk 64% with Guide Dogs for the Blind and RNLI on the same figure. Incidentally, I support the RNLI and The Dogs’ Trust.

Is this the report that the Charity Commissioner described as flawed?

Edit: I have tried to find additional information about the True and Fair Foundation on the web. It appears to have been shut down. The general tone of the content that I could find was that the True and Fair Foundation, or at least its spokesperson, was anything but completely true and fair. The particular report being quoted here attracted widespread condemnation for misrepresenting what percentage of donations make their way to the intended recipients.

 

[gerardcarey]

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/shapeshifting-and-haymaking.55727/

 

[Tony Lenton]

Is this the report that the Charity Commissioner described as flawed?

Edit: I have tried to find additional information about the True and Fair Foundation on the web. It appears to have been shut down. The general tone of the content that I could find was that the True and Fair Foundation, or at least its spokesperson, was anything but completely true and fair. The particular report being quoted here attracted widespread condemnation for misrepresenting what percentage of donations make their way to the intended recipients.

Thanks, Doug. As a cynic their name may perhaps give them away. In quoting them I had no means of knowing the accuracy or otherwise of their figures and I suspect it’s bordering on impossible to distinguish between direct provision, infrastucture and administration. I was accosted by two young women from the “Deaf Charity” in Melide in 2019 but didn’t stump up any money. Incidentally I noticed that a spokesperson for True and Fair was Gina Miller, who I assume was the same Gina Miller who took the UK government to court over the Brexit process. It’s a shallow pond out there.

 

[Bradypus]

Another report today of four people being arrested for false charity collection scams on the Camino Frances.

Detenidos cuatro vecinos de Lugo por estafas en el Camino de Santiago en nombre de Cruz Roja o Cáritas

Quedaron en libertad tras negarse a declarar ante la jueza de Sarria. Podrían estar ingresando unos 5.000 euros mensuales que les quitaban a los peregrinos

www.lavozdegalicia.es

 

[Tincatinker]

Doesn't read as if they've got the gang-masters. There will be a new team out in a week or so.

I'm surprised by the projected "earn" €5000 doesn't go far between 4 people, a mess of kids and a Don who'll want his diezmo

 

[Bradypus]

I'm surprised by the projected "earn" €5000 doesn't go far between 4 people, a mess of kids and a Don who'll want his diezmo

It would be nice to think that people are more aware of the scam these days and so are reluctant to hand over their cash. But probably not that simple.

 

[David Tallan]

It would be nice to think that people are more aware of the scam these days and so are reluctant to hand over their cash. But probably not that simple.

When I was on Camino, it was my practice, insofar as was possible, to give something to every mendicant who asked. I considered it appropriate behaviour for a pilgrimage, in keeping with the values I wanted to express and the spiritual nature of the journey. On the one hand, it did carry the risk of handing over my cash to those who were unworthy (as I may have done, according to reports, outside the cathedral in Santiago). But the reluctance carries the risk of not handing over my cash to those who are in real need.

 

[Annette london]

Another report today of four people being arrested for false charity collection scams on the Camino Frances.

Detenidos cuatro vecinos de Lugo por estafas en el Camino de Santiago en nombre de Cruz Roja o Cáritas

Quedaron en libertad tras negarse a declarar ante la jueza de Sarria. Podrían estar ingresando unos 5.000 euros mensuales que les quitaban a los peregrinos

www.lavozdegalicia.es

Well the “charity collectors” were alive and kicking when we passed two weeks ago just outside Barbadelo
A pilgrim in front of us was rummaging in her bag ..li presumed for money and I shouted out “scammers, they are scamming you”
Too late, she had passed over some euros
As we passed, the ladies were busy counting their “donations”
The ares around Sarria has always been a popular collection point

 

[Tincatinker]

That beggar crying in the rain in the plaza obradoiro? You have three choices: give her money, give her your umbrella, walk on by…
Of course you could spend some time and effort speculating whether she’s been trafficked; fits the modern slavery model; offer to buy her a coffee or a burger, or even just find the nearest member of the Policia Nacional. But realistically you have those three choices. Same applies on every street in every town in every country on this poor benighted planet. And if you ever think it’s a hard choice try imagining having absolutely no choice at all

 

[Kanga]

What I don't like about this particular scam is that they were imitating real charity workers - Red Cross and Caritas collectors. Still, it seems like small potatoes when compared to the millions that are scammed each day through electronic fraud.
I expect the "deaf" ladies to whip out a credit card reader next time I pass them.