EU/Schengen: How Sticky is it Really?

[TorontoGMan]

Greeting Peregrinos!
The good news: I've created "bookends" for my next trip to Spain....in SJPP, working for the Reception office in May, and then in SdC in July, with a planned departure following St. James' Day...likely heading to Porto on the weekend.
The issue is, apparently I'm pretty bad with math, as I've exceeded my 90 day window!
I've never had the impression that the 90 day thing was, well, a THING, as I crossed to Porto and flew out without any issues...BUT was never close to the 90 day window before.

This amazing forum has really helped with my newbie questions in the past, and with my planned focus on service this coming year (with any help pointing me to some albergues that could use a trained hospitelero) I'm looking for anyone's knowledgeable feedback about this issue?

Kind regards,
gary

 

[JCLima]

Is it possible that you will have no problems? Yes.

Should you make changes to your plans to make sure you respect the rules/law? Also yes.

 

[CTLawGal]

I personally wouldn't want to risk exiting after 90 days, I've done some preliminary research to figure out how I could walk for up to 100 or 110 days for a longer Camino, and if there is some kind of visa that you can apply for, it doesn't look easy and might be expensive... Still working through this as it is more for future planning purposes, but interested to learn if others have any experience doing it officially.

 

[Tincatinker]

If you’ve no plans to revisit the countries of the Schengen zone after that trip you’ll be fine. Otherwise the “overstayed” stamp in your passport might cause problems on your next visit.

 

[roving_rufus]

How close to the 90 days are you? How tight is your schedule?
Could a few days in UK using a cheap flight get you out of Schegan/EU ?- it doesn't reset the clock to zero but simply doesn't count in the 90 days

 

[Kathor1]

working for the Reception office in May, and then in SdC in July

Nobody knows how sticky it is really. However, in the summer of 2025, there is a greater chance than ever before that you might end up in an EU-wide database of overstayers so don't rely on old anectodes. And if you want to visit again later, they will know about what you did last time in 2025 ...

 

[CTLawGal]

I found this article about applying for a visa to stay longer - apparently Spain has a few options for long-term visas, there's a link to the consulate page that has the application. You'll have to check to see if you qualify, I see that you're in Canada - price is about 500 euros for Canadians, 125 euros for Americans - go figure.

Your Guide to (Legally) Staying in Europe for More Than 90 Days

Many people want to stay in the Schengen Zone longer than 90 days. This is a guide to show you how to legally do just that!

www.nomadicmatt.com

Here are the basic requirements, doesn't look easy (leaving Schengen and returning might be easier, if that really works?):

• Demonstrate more than 26,000 euros in savings
• Proof of private health insurance (from an authorized company in Spain not travel insurance)
• A doctor’s note certifying that you’re healthy
• A criminal background check translated into Spanish

 

[donalomahony]

Previous discussion:

Thread 'Overstayed 90 days? From UK?'

Mar 11, 2023

I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole

• SushiNinja
• travel-documents/insurance
• Replies: 99
• Camino de Santiago Forum: 🧳 Traveling & Transport to/from/along the camino

• 
• 
• 

 

[C clearly]

When you pass the 90 day limit, you will be illegally in the country. Never a good plan.

 

[MickMac]

How close to the 90 days are you? How tight is your schedule?
Could a few days in UK using a cheap flight get you out of Schegan/EU ?- it doesn't reset the clock to zero but simply doesn't count in the 90 days

You could go to Ireland 26 counties and remain in EU but not in Schengen.

 

[J Willhaus]

Why risk it, especially if you want to return again?

 

[CWBuff]

Pretty much same sentiment as all above
Respect the law it's there for a reason.
Once we start breaking it no telling where another person will take it

 

[Flog]

Pretty much same sentiment as all above
Respect the law it's there for a reason.

I wouldn't be one for respecting laws, necessarily. But complying, certainly.. if you have plans to return in the future..

 

[henrythedog]

If you break it up by getting out of Schengen for a day or two; so as to get an exit stamp and a new entry stamp, you’ll very likely get away with it. There is still no electronic system recording your compliance - it relies on checking the physical stamps.

Exit with your last entry 90+ days ago and there’s a high probability of being caught. Exit with an entry clearly <90 days ago and it’s remarkably unlikely that anyone’s going to do the maths, especially if they’ve not bought some ink for the stamps recently. Many of mine were illegible when stamped.

Of course, the right thing to do is obey the law.

If the worst happens and you get sent on your way with an ‘overstayed’ stamp, just renew your passport when you get home as there’s no electronic record of that either.

The Schengen (and UK) systems may be saying goodbye to the 19th century in the next few years, but not yet.

 

[naplesdon]

I don't think Henry is correct. You can not just exit Schengen for a days or so to Moscow and come back and still continue another 90 days.

 

[henrythedog]

I don't think Henry is correct. You can not just exit Schengen for a days or so to Moscow and come back and still continue another 90 days.

Legally, no you can’t - you are correct. It’s 90 out of the last 180 days you can stay, so a weekend in Moscow only extends your elapsed time in Schengen by 2-3 days.

I was commenting on the very low probability of getting caught as the system is totally manual and relies on often illegible physical stamps applied in no logical sequence.

Once the long-advertised electronic systems are installed it’ll be a different matter.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

@TorontoGMan, I have no personal experience however a quick search found this:

Overstayed your 90 day limit in Spain? | SGM Abogados

Visitors to Spain from non-EU countries are subject to the 90-day rule, which states that they can only stay for 90 days out of 180. But how strictly is this rule enforced - and what happens if you...

sgmlegalspain.com

 

[dougfitz]

Really a rhetorical question, but assuming the start and end dates are relatively fixed, how much time can you make by re-arranging your commitments to make a side trip outside the Schengen zone? Get down to Morocco for a few days, or anywhere else outside the Schengen zone. My experience is that border control officers will check all entries in the last 180 days and are quick to work out whether you are still legal. Stamp legibility didn't seem to be an obstacle last time they scrutinized my passport where there were multiple entries and departures in the previous months.

ps I am not sure whether it would be possible to go to Gibraltar. It seems that after Brexit, there are now special arrangements for it to be included in the Schengen Zone even though the remainder of the UK has moved out of the EU.

 

[CTLawGal]

I'm thinking we should not be advising people to do things that are not legal, based on the probability of getting caught. This is a retired lawyer talking, but it's just my two cents

 

[dougfitz]

I'm thinking we should not be advising people to do things that are not legal, based on the probability of getting caught. This is a retired lawyer talking, but it's just my two cents

. This forum is full of bush lawyers and outright scoff laws. Just look at the discussion on taking trekking poles as cabin baggage.

 

[henrythedog]

I'm thinking we should not be advising people to do things that are not legal, based on the probability of getting caught. This is a retired lawyer talking, but it's just my two cents

You may have missed - or chosen to ignore - the:

Of course, the right thing to do is obey the law.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The good news: I've created "bookends" for my next trip to Spain....in SJPP, working for the Reception office in May, and then in SdC in July, with a planned departure following St. James' Day...likely heading to Porto on the weekend.

All of May 1 to July 31 is 92 days so I don't see the problem; it looks like if you leave SdC after July 25 you are okay. Skip Porto and head for home immediately (or out of Schengen anyway). Don't wait for the last day; things may come up that could delay your flight.

Edit: If you finish your SJPdP to SdC camino early you could go to Porto before your pilgrim office stint or take a flight to the UK, Ireland or Morocco for a short visit to pause the Schengen clock and have enough time for your Porto visit.

 

[CTLawGal]

This forum is full of bush lawyers and outright scoff laws. Just look at the discussion on taking trekking poles as cabin baggage

To all the bush lawyers and scoff laws out there, it's one thing to advise someone where the risk is losing some trekking poles, another thing where the risk to future entry is possible... just sayin...

 

[Tincatinker]

Not yet. UK and EU (Spain) are still negotiating about the Gibraltar agreement.

The idea that the UK and Spain could ever come to agreement over Gibraltar has been a source of amusement and bewilderment for the natives either side of La Linea for decades. Confused often by the fact that Gib is not part of the UK. Which is why you’ll need your passport to get in or out. The days when a flight from London to Gib was regarded as an “internal” flight are long gone

There are those that might argue that title to Jabal Ṭāriq vests somewhere south of the Strait

 

[alexwalker]

Legally, no you can’t - you are correct. It’s 90 out of the last 180 days you can stay, so a weekend in Moscow only extends your elapsed time in Schengen by 2-3 days.

I was commenting on the very low probability of getting caught as the system is totally manual and relies on often illegible physical stamps applied in no logical sequence.

Once the long-advertised electronic systems are installed it’ll be a different matter.

Stay with the rules; do not try to bend them. It may only hurt you in the future.

 

[Elena peregrina]

with any help pointing me to some albergues that could use a trained hospitelero

To answer this part of your question…. If you have completed the HosVol training and this is your first time and you would like to volunteer at a HosVol run donativo albergue, you put in your application via the organisation that trained you in your home country. They will then forward this to HosVol. If you prefer to volunteer through another organisation (eg CSJ) you apply to that organisation directly. If you weren’t given the application forms at your training, you can usually find them on the organisation’s website. Most Hospitalero placements are for 14-16 so you will need to factor this into your 90 days. Hope this is helpful.

 

[naplesdon]

My suggestion is not to test the system. You might be the first of many expats who can not come back to the Schengen Zone

 

[Kathor1]

that the UK and Spain could ever come to agreement over Gibraltar

You saw my post saying that “the UK and EU (Spain) are still negotiating about the Gibraltar agreement”. I deleted it because I initially wasn’t sure about the current de facto situation. The status of flights between the UK and Gibraltar doesn’t interest the EU. What matters is how the EU/Spain regard the land border at La Linea for a Canadian passport holder: They regard it as an external Schengen border and they have Schengen entry stamps and Schengen exit stamps:

 

[trecile]

This isn't like taking a chance with an oversized carry-on bag where the consequence is having to pay to check it in. Flouting the Schengen rules could result in not being able to return to the 29 Schengen countries.

 

[PiesIrlandeses]

Remember that it is 90 days out of any consecutive 180 days.

A short trip outside the Schengen zone does not reset the 90 days or the 180 days to zero.

 

[dougfitz]

Remember that it is 90 days out of any consecutive 180 days.

A short trip outside the Schengen zone does not reset the 90 days or the 180 days to zero.

That is true, as others have said, but it is the opportunity to reduce that number of days that one has been in the Schengen zone by a few, which might make enough difference to the OP when it comes to the end of their trip still being legal.

 

[Vacajoe]

You are a guest in the Schengen countries zone and representing the pilgrim community as a whole. In no way, shape, or form should you be considering breaking the law. Period.

If you want to be in the SZ for events more than 90 days apart, then leave in the middle of that time period to “pause” the 90 day clock. Leaving the SZ for 10 days mid-trip gives you an additional 10 days at the end of your trip when you return. Follow the law.

 

[dick bird]

. There is still no electronic system recording your compliance - it relies on checking the physical stamps.

I am not sure I would want to bank on that being the case for much longer.

 

[dick bird]

The good news: I've created "bookends" for my next trip to Spain....in SJPP, working for the Reception office in May, and then in SdC in July, with a planned departure following St. James' Day...likely heading to Porto on the weekend.

Doing the maths: 14 days in SJPdP, 14 days in SdC, 40 days walking from one to the other = 68 days. That leaves 22 days to get to Porto, have a look round and get out before your 90 days is up. You should be OK.

 

[henrythedog]

I am not sure I would want to bank on that being the case for much longer.

Once the long-advertised electronic systems are installed it’ll be a different matter.

The machines are physically in place; but implementation date has recently been postponed

 

[dick bird]

The machines are physically in place; but implementation date has recently been postponed

Why does this not surprise me?

Edit: Another point to remember is that most immigration officials can count way beyond 90.

 

[CTLawGal]

This isn't like taking a chance with an oversized carry-on bag where the consequence is having to pay to check it in. Flouting the Schengen rules could result in not being able to return to the 29 Schengen countries.

Exactly this! That was the point I was trying to make, but much more clearly articulated.

My rule of thumb: Never put yourself in a position to risk being a "test case" for an unenforced (or lightly enforced) law. Especially when you are a guest in another country.

The corollary to that rule might be: Also don't put Ivar in a position where this forum is blamed for advising people to break the law.

 

[Dov of the Galilee]

How would anybody know?
If you entered a country in Europe not part of this visa pact, traveled by land to Spain in this instance and left by air is anyone in authority paying any attention? I ask this half informed because I've heard tales from acquaintances who spend years in Spain and travel by air now and again and they some how get around this. In their cases they are illegally working which is a serious infraction but not addressed.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

How would anybody know?
If you entered a country in Europe not part of this visa pact, traveled by land to Spain in this instance and left by air is anyone in authority paying any attention? I ask this half informed because I've heard tales from acquaintances who spend years in Spain and travel by air now and again and they some how get around this. In their cases they are illegally working which is a serious infraction but not addressed.

Yes, there are border controls at land borders between Schengen and non-Schengen countries.

 

[Glenshiro]

Crossing the border from a non-Schengen country into a country in Schengen will automatically attract a stamp in your passport which will be examined when you leave to travel to a non-Schengen country.

 

[John Sikora]

It's not rocket science. Can you overstay, yes. Can you be caught, yes. Are there penalties which are painful to a traveler, yes. Will nothing happen, maybe. But, the real question is why even take the risk. Governments tend to be capricious and rules are enforced or not enforced depending on the day, mood of the checker, and attitutde of the offender. But again, why risk having any negative notch in your international travel credientials. Just ain't worth it.

 

[lungwei]

The EU have installed a electronic Enter/Exit System. It has started the 10 th novembre 2024.
I think overstaying is a bad idea.
Some information

Europe strengthens border control with new entry/exit system from November 10

From November 10, 2024, the EU will introduce the Entry/Exit System (EES), an IT system that modernizes border controls at the EU's external borders.

schengenvisum.info

 

[Liica]

Greeting Peregrinos!
The good news: I've created "bookends" for my next trip to Spain....in SJPP, working for the Reception office in May, and then in SdC in July, with a planned departure following St. James' Day...likely heading to Porto on the weekend.
The issue is, apparently I'm pretty bad with math, as I've exceeded my 90 day window!
I've never had the impression that the 90 day thing was, well, a THING, as I crossed to Porto and flew out without any issues...BUT was never close to the 90 day window before.

This amazing forum has really helped with my newbie questions in the past, and with my planned focus on service this coming year (with any help pointing me to some albergues that could use a trained hospitelero) I'm looking for anyone's knowledgeable feedback about this issue?

Kind regards,
gary

Possibly a fine and your name on the black list.

 

[wisepilgrim]

Legally, no you can’t - you are correct. It’s 90 out of the last 180 days you can stay, so a weekend in Moscow only extends your elapsed time in Schengen by 2-3 days.

I was commenting on the very low probability of getting caught as the system is totally manual and relies on often illegible physical stamps applied in no logical sequence.

Once the long-advertised electronic systems are installed it’ll be a different matter.

I can assure you that nobody is paying attention to the stamps in your passport for the purpose of calculating your length of stay. All of that data is stored in the computer. Already, and for many years.

It’s also a good time to remind everyone that questions about whether or not a law could/should be broken are best asked in a forum qualified to answer. This is not one of them.

 

[naplesdon]

I can assure you that nobody is paying attention to the stamps in your passport for the purpose of calculating your length of stay. All of that data is stored in the computer. Already, and for many years.

It’s also a good time to remind everyone that questions about whether or not a law could/should be broken are best asked in a forum qualified to answer. This is not one of them.

Thank you Michael. Case closed.

 

[CWBuff]

I don't think Henry is correct. You can not just exit Schengen for a days or so to Moscow and come back and still continue another 90 days.

Hmmm... I may not want to come back... whats between Mules and Girls that make me sing and shout

 

[Stephan the Painter]

There is still no electronic system recording your compliance - it relies on checking the physical stamps.

I find this difficult to believe. Do you have any links or information that verify this?

What else are those border control guards doing when they swipe your passport and look at a screen? There must be some information on there.

I am entering Spain with an Italian passport, and they're still checking my passport electronically.

Do the authorities rely on those stamps? I think it is naive to suggest that they do. The border control officer will have already swiped your passport through a scanner that has extracted the stored information from it as part of their routine. I presume this will result in their computer system monitor displaying your travel record, including any 'red stamping' on previous passports.

Exactly

 

[Dov of the Galilee]

First I'll pose a question, let's presume for some reason a local law enforcement officer who asks to see your passport. If you don't have a stamp or an illegible stamp the officer is faced with letting you go or trying to contact someone who can verify your status. Good luck with that.

Before I retired from the DOJ every five years or less I would have to give full account of every country I was in, duration, purpose. With this scanned pages of every passport page. I realize what I'm saying is off target from the original post but I offer it only to say 'th system's not iron clad on the authorities end and for the individual you may very well need that stamp to prove your legal status and won't be able to for reasons already mentioned :

 

[AlanSykes]

Numerous times I have seen officials standing on the bridge over the Bidasoa, stopping buses to check ID's and several time there were people asked to stay on one side or the other and driven off in an official's car.

You surprise me. I don’t know how many Schengen borders I’ve crossed since the treaty was signed, probably nearing 100 - on foot, in a car, on a bus, on a train, on skis, on a boat - and I’ve never once had to show my passport.

 

[peregrina2000]

Time to close. I don’t see that there is any new information being given and several posts have been deleted for off-topic and political remarks.