- Time of past OR future Camino
- Frances 15,16,18
VdlP 23, Invierno 23, Fisterra 23
Ah. But you haven't heard my snoring!
Or singing!
I just genuinely worry about the owners not getting enough income.
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I am being amused by all the earnest attempts to calculate the value of a night in a donativo, and inspired by the spiritual and profound responses we are getting from those who serve in them. Yes, it may be worthwhile to consider whether you are taking the bed of someone who cannot afford to sleep anywhere else, if you are largely measuring your own worth in money. But when I read Robo's responses, and keeping in mind his many thoughtful contributions to this forum, I find myself thinking that it is not right that his sense of fairness should always deprive us of his presence at the donativo. You are worth much more to us than the money you might donate.
Do you know how the donativo thing started?
Twenty five or thirty years ago a drunk english man arrived at Grañon; in the cold nigth he took shelter in the main door of the church, (there was not albergue there in those years) but the priest guided him to his house, gave him some soup and a bed to sleep. Next morning when the priest coked the breakfast found the bagabond had left the house. Ripped sheeds on the bed and... 1.200 pesetas ( 7.5 euros more or less) on the pillow. The priest searched for the man in the town, for the roads, asked at hospitals and towns near Grañon, asked the Guardia Civil... successless. He thougt to himself that maybe this man would return asking for his money, and put it inside a box.
Years later a group of volunters inspired for that priest (doctors, lawyers, salesmen, employees, etc) working with theirs hands, asking for donations, crowfunding, etc, restored the old building where today is Grañon´s albergue. The first of July of this year they were commemorated that 21 years ago the first five pilgrims inagurated this place. From this very moment until today, in the box of donativos of this albergue there are 7 euros and twenty cents waiting for the man who generously paid for a bed and dinner in Grañon.
Sometimes (seldom) the hospitaleros found the box of donations empty. They immediataly deposit seven and twenty euros in that box.
Whith the "earnings" of this box along the years, they are subsidided the build of other albergues, they are helping to keep the Caminno Spirit alive.
I´m talking about not private donativo albergues, but parish, municipal etc. But usually private ones have more or less the same spirit
Donation dont mean free. Donativo Albergues never mean luxuries. A place to sleep, to rest, to have a hot shower. Maybe some food. Always a hug if we need it.
Donativo albergues usually mean trust, joy, share, love, human heat.
Usually we will never receive so much at other acomodations.
They dont recived other funding than the donations of pilgrims.
IHMO nobody knows what is the Camino joy if not passing some days in that kind of albergues.
Lets pay for it. With a smile, a thank you, a hug. If can afford it, with a bunch of euros.
Buen Camino for you all honest people.
Well, yes, that is true.I just can't help that feel the whole thing survives on hope and a fair bit of luck and a lot of stress for the Albergue owner.
Indeed. Well spoken, @Albertagirl .You are worth much more to us than the money you might donate.
Dear Robo, you are so kind.
Well, yes, that is true.
But the owner's risk and stress only belongs to him or her, not to you. So there is no need to carry them on your shoulder. A friend says it this way: "There are only three kinds of business in the world: our own business, other people's business, and God’s business. Only mind your own business."
So all you need to to is to remember to make an offering, any offering - one that you can afford and feel happy to make. And if the owner's risk and stress still weigh on you there is always well-wishing or prayer on their behalf.
Indeed. Well spoken, @Albertagirl .
I'm sure your friend meant well. But to think like that would create a very selfish World don't you think?
No, not at all, Rob. What I wrote does not mean selfishness in any way. But what Tinca says so well:Rather than hope they survive on a 'wish and a prayer' I'll make sure I leave some extra Euros too
All our 'stuff' is ours alone. And taking on - shouldering - the owner's stuff is definitely extra. That is his or hers.But none of that, none of our problems: our guilt, self-doubt or bewilderment have anything to do with Donativo.
Do you know how the donativo thing started?
Twenty five or thirty years ago a drunk english man arrived at Grañon; in the cold nigth he took shelter in the main door of the church, (there was not albergue there in those years) but the priest guided him to his house, gave him some soup and a bed to sleep. Next morning when the priest coked the breakfast found the bagabond had left the house. Ripped sheeds on the bed and... 1.200 pesetas ( 7.5 euros more or less) on the pillow. The priest searched for the man in the town, on the roads, asked at hospitals and towns near Grañon, asked the Guardia Civil... successless. He thougt to himself that maybe this man would return asking for his money, and put it inside a box.
Years later a group of volunters inspired for that priest (doctors, lawyers, salesmen, employees, etc) working with theirs hands, asking for donations, crowfunding, etc, restored the old building where today is Grañon´s albergue. The first of July of this year, they were commemorated that 21 years ago the first five pilgrims inagurated this place. From this very moment until today, in the box of donativos of this albergue there are 7 euros and twenty cents waiting for the man who generously paid for a bed and dinner in Grañon.
Sometimes (seldom) the hospitaleros find the box of donations empty. They immediataly deposit seven point twenty euros in that box.
Whith the "earnings" of this box along the years, they are subsidided the build of other albergues, they are helping to keep the Camino Spirit alive.
I´m talking about non private donativo albergues, but parish, municipal etc; usually, private ones have more or less the same spirit.
Donation dont mean free. Donativo Albergues never mean luxuries. A place to sleep, to rest, to have a hot shower. Maybe some food. Always a hug if we need it. That´s all.
Donativo albergues usually mean trust, joy, share, love, human heat. Nothing less.
We pilgrims will never receive so much at other acomodations.
They dont received other funding than the donations of pilgrims.
IHMO nobody knows what is the Camino joy if not passing some days in that kind of albergues.
Lets pay for it. With a smile, a thank you, a hug. If can afford it, with a bunch of euros.
Buen Camino to you all honest people.
[...] Trying to change the behavior of others is a fruitless task.Trying to understand the behavior of others is also a fruitless task. When deciding what to put in the box,I settled on what I thought was a fair amount and gave a bit more, What others gave,or did not give,or if the place would soon shut down,was out of my hands. I can only worry about my own actions,and more importantly-BUEN CAMINO.
It makes me a bit disappointed that many people on this forum seem to see the caminos in some kind of esoteric bubble, not as part of real life. Next time you pass a ruined or locked-up building on the camino, ask yourself where are those people? In an apartment in Madrid, most likely, because they couldn't afford to stay in their home.
I lived in Santa Fe for years, and there was a regular homeless guy who would pay a young teenager $15 an hour to stand next to him with his sign seeking the generosity of others. The kid loved it of course, $15 an hour is pretty good money, but the homeless guy drank or drugged his way through the $300 or so every day. Responsible giving is a harder concept to grasp.
Some of you know the Gronze website for great information on the various Caminos. In addition it publishes articles on Caminos news. Today it published an article by Antón Plomb, journalist, historian and author of Camino guides. The article is quite timely as it discusses the future of donativo Traditional Albergues, something he believes represent the soul of the Camino:
https://www.gronze.com/articulos/ti...c46YH2birGqqJzD3NnP1ajZA9vZKCiY5JglGj97zTDDKs
A worthwhile read.
Dear Robo, you are so kind.
Well, yes, that is true.
But the owner's risk and stress only belongs to him or her, not to you. So there is no need to carry them on your shoulder. A friend says it this way: "There are only three kinds of business in the world: our own business, other people's business, and God’s business. Only mind your own business."
So all you need to to is to remember to make an offering, any offering - one that you can afford and feel happy to make. And if the owner's risk and stress still weigh on you there is always well-wishing or prayer on their behalf.
Indeed. Well spoken, @Albertagirl .
Dear Robo, you are so kind.
Well, yes, that is true.
But the owner's risk and stress only belongs to him or her, not to you. So there is no need to carry them on your shoulder. A friend says it this way: "There are only three kinds of business in the world: our own business, other people's business, and God’s business. Only mind your own business."
So all you need to to is to remember to make an offering, any offering - one that you can afford and feel happy to make. And if the owner's risk and stress still weigh on you there is always well-wishing or prayer on their behalf.
Indeed. Well spoken, @Albertagirl .
Very detail and helpful comments. Thanks.Over the years I had many conversations, both as a hospitalera and as a pilgrim about this question:
How much should be my donativo?
The easy answer is: As much as you can afford! But things are a bit more layered, so please allow me to digress ;-)
Donativo albergues rely on many things:
Donativo albergues don't make a distinction between those who have and those who haven't - everybody is treated the same - the same food, the same welcome, the same hot shower (ok, depending on time of the day ;-)
- Somebody donated the building or sold it for a nominal price or somebody bought it from their own money without any intention ever to make a profit of it.
- Volunteers renovated it and staff it and they all not only pay their own travel to the place, they very often even pay for their own food during their stay!
- Nothing what is on offer has a price tag on it - it is priceless, the smiles, the welcome, the food, the hot water, the good-bye hug in the morning - none of it can be bought.
So, how much should you give - like the Galicians say "It depends!"
- The least what you should give is a smile, a hug and a Thank You
- There is no upper limit to how much you can leave in the Donativo box.
If you are a pilgrim on an average budget, here some pointers:
What did you pay in the last commercial albergue that offered the same - Shower, Dinner, Breakfast etc?
Put the same amount into the Donativo box!
Follow the 5er rule (taught to me by a pilgrim friend).
Leave five Euros (if you can afford it!) for each of the following: shower, bed, dinner, breakfast (or in the case of the last two, for food in the kitchen put there for you to prepare your own meals).
And if you are able to afford a night at the Parador at the end of your pilgrimage in Santiago, why not leave the same amount in a Donativo albergue that you really liked - always if you can afford it, obviously!
In short:
A smile should always be the minimum Donativo left and there is no upper limit of Euros you are allowed to put in the box!
Buen Camino!
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