Credit Card Nightmare

[Former member 102963]

View attachment 135111

Look up https://www.sc.com/my/promotions/pin-pay/

PS: I googled around and found, that indeed, a card owner can choose 4-6 pins-codes, I, therefore, concede that I was wrong about not being able to use 4-digits in many countries.
Otoh, in my country, 6-digits are widely used, don't know anyone using on 4 digits. That makes me wonder how come my 6-digits work in Spain.

Thanks you! Yes I had no idea Spanish ATMs took 6 digits!

 

[trecile]

As front runners in many aspects of technology I’m frequently amazed by the analogue financial systems in the states. Could you not use apple pay, or the android version thereof, to effectively create a ‘contactless’ card via some device?

Back in 2018 I didn't yet have a contactless card of any kind, so I started using Google Pay in Spain the first time that a flummoxed clerk in a hotel didn't know what to do with my American CC.

Must admit I am shocked too given how tech advanced US is!

It's also very rare here for waitstaff at restaurants to have handheld devices to accept payments by card. Most of the time we have to hand over our card, which they take to the central terminal in the restaurant to run it through, and return it with a slip for us to sign.

 

[Former member 102963]

Back in 2018 I didn't yet have a contactless card of any kind, so I started using Google Pay in Spain the first time that a flummoxed clerk in a hotel didn't know what to do with my American CC.

It's also very rare here for waitstaff at restaurants to have handheld devices to accept payments by card. Most of the time we have to hand over our card, which they take to the central terminal in the restaurant to run it through, and return it with a slip for us to sign.

Amazing really. In Europe I find myself apologising if I go ‘old school’ and insert my card and type in pin rather than just use contactless. Been in London Singapore and now Sydney in last 48 hours and pretty much everything contactless.

 

[Kathor1]

I googled around and found, that indeed, a card owner can choose 4-6 pins-codes, I, therefore, concede that I was wrong about not being able to use 4-digits in many countries. Otoh, in my country, 6-digits are widely used, don't know anyone using on 4 digits. That makes me wonder how come my 6-digits work in Spain.

My credit cards and debits cards are issued by banks in 4 digit PIN code countries. Or rather, in "traditional" 4 digit PIN code countries because 4 digits used to be the standard in numerous European countries. This is no longer the case: the standard allows now 4, 5 or 6 digits for the PIN code of a credit or debit card. ATMs and POS terminals in EU countries can handle this variety.

It was already many years ago that my bank told me that I can now have a 6 digit PIN code if I wanted one instead of my 4 digit code. I never bothered to change it. So, 6 digit PIN cards and 4 digit PIN cards can happily co-exist.

BTW, standard advice from banks when you encounter an ATM or POS that expects or allows 6 digits and you have only a 4 digit PIN code: Simply enter your PIN and press 'OK' or 'Confirm' or 'Continue' or similar.

 

[qpqp]

Prior to leaving Canada, I loaded 4 credit cards, Visa and MasterCard with $ to cover camino charges, I checked and double checked that the four digit codes for each worked. On getting to Spain none if the cards worked, the four digit pin not accepted. I didn’t 59€ I phone calls on supposed toll free numbers for both Visa Mastercard ( from appropriate banks) who confirmed my cards were valid and that the numbers were valid and working. They did NOT work. I had brought a lot of cash and that’s what I live on now. From my two bank cards Royal Bank and ScotiaBank I was able to withdraw cash.
Lesson: don’t count on your credit cards to work in Spain.

Can't help with the credit card issue because I only use my credit card when absolutely forced to do so. However, you mentioned that you have a ScotiaBank card, debit I presume, and that caught my eye because I too have a ScotiaBank debit card and I am incredibly cheap and I will do anything to avoid paying transaction fees and it turns out that ScotiaBank is a founding member of something called the Global ATM Alliance and in Spain you can avoid transaction fees if you withdraw money from a Deutsche Bank ATM, and only a Deutsche Bank ATM by the way. Furthermore, Royal Bank is not a member of the Global ATM Alliance so you can use that card wherever you like because there is no way to avoid the transaction fee.

 

[Former member 102963]

Can't help with the credit card issue because I only use my credit card when absolutely forced to do so. However, you mentioned that you have a ScotiaBank card, debit I presume, and that caught my eye because I too have a ScotiaBank debit card and I am incredibly cheap and I will do anything to avoid paying transaction fees and it turns out that ScotiaBank is a founding member of something called the Global ATM Alliance and in Spain you can avoid transaction fees if you withdraw money from a Deutsche Bank ATM, and only a Deutsche Bank ATM by the way. Furthermore, Royal Bank is not a member of the Global ATM Alliance so you can use that card wherever you like because there is no way to avoid the transaction fee.

Yes I always use Deutsche Bank when in Spain and pay no fees.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I encountered a self-service petrol pump in France that would accept up to 12 digits in the PIN!

 

[NorthernLight]

ScotiaBank is a founding member of something called the Global ATM Alliance and in Spain you can avoid transaction fees if you withdraw money from a Deutsche Bank ATM, and only a Deutsche Bank ATM by the way.

If you can find them, Scotiabank’s alliance partners in Europe are: Bank of America, BNP Paribas, Barclays, Deutsche Bank, and Westpac. Deutsche Bank is the most likely of these on the camino, but others do exist elsewhere in Spain.

 

[Former member 102963]

If you can find them, Scotiabank’s alliance partners in Europe are: Bank of America, BNP Paribas, Barclays, Deutsche Bank, and Westpac. Deutsche Bank is the most likely of these on the camino, but others do exist elsewhere in Spain.

As stated I use DB. Yes their ATM coverage in terms of number of locations seems to be a lot less than the major banks (who seem to charge up to €7 per transaction) so load up before you commence walking!

Currently in Australia and ‘contactless’ is very much a way of life here (when seen through tourist eyes) to the point where I have not had to use money at all in 14 days (and been to a few events where you can’t use cash in its traditional form).

 

[Sirage]

I think the length of this conversation is testimony to the success of the banking/credit card industry in obfuscating the fees and charges, including ATM fees, and making not quite reasonable claims of the various access-to-money options so as to earn profits by less-than-honourable behaviour. The usual glitches in international electronic systems don't help.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

As stated I use DB. Yes their ATM coverage in terms of number of locations seems to be a lot less than the major banks (who seem to charge up to €7 per transaction) so load up before you commence walking!

Currently in Australia and ‘contactless’ is very much a way of life here (when seen through tourist eyes) to the point where I have not had to use money at all in 14 days (and been to a few events where you can’t use cash in its traditional form).

I used a Liber bank machine last week with no charges. Here in Spain some places still have minimum amounts for card transactions and some don't take cards at all.

 

[Former member 102963]

I used a Liber bank machine last week with no charges. Here in Spain some places still have minimum amounts for card transactions and some don't take cards at all.

Yes, that’s right. I have noted, and so have others, that some of the more regional, less global banks often don’t charge compared to the big players.

Yes coverage is not universal but growth of cashless payment running at about 25% or so!

 

[JabbaPapa]

I encountered a self-service petrol pump in France that would accept up to 12 digits in the PIN!

I think those are for some pre-paid debit cards that are available in that country.

 

[WGroleau]

I have a UK card and my 4 digit pin works pretty much everywhere. North America, South America, Asia, Australia, Europe. Never even heard of a six digit pin to be honest though not doubting they exist.

ATMs in the Beijing airport all said it must be six digits. Since my PIN was only four, I had to buy food with the card.

 

[Former member 102963]

ATMs in the Beijing airport all said it must be six digits. Since my PIN was only four, I had to buy food with the card.

Sure. I have not been China for a few years, maybe 15, so assume changed. Wonder if any difference between Chinese banks and Global banks. Anyway

ATMs in China: Credit cards and fees

While China is major destination for business-people and tourists alike, credit cards aren’t as widely accepted as you’d expect. Sure, your plastic will...

wise.com

PIN length​

Chinese banks use six-digit PINs. Some ATMs may accept a four-digit PIN, but others may not. If an ATM requires a six-digit PIN, adding two zeros to the front of your number often does the trick. However, do ask your bank to confirm this beforehand.

 

[AJS49]

I was there a couple of weeks ago and no problem with a 4-digit pin.

Likewise.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

ATMs in the Beijing airport all said it must be six digits. Since my PIN was only four, I had to buy food with the card.

That is why it is useful to check these kinds of matters (debit cards, passport, insurance, etc.) in the countries you are going to. It's not much work.

 

[Former member 102963]

That is why it is useful to check these kinds of matters (debit cards, passport, insurance, etc.) in the countries you are going to. It's not much work.

I find wise.com a good source for ATM / Credit Cards advice by country. Sure there any other good sites too!

 

[John Petersen]

Prior to leaving Canada, I loaded 4 credit cards, Visa and MasterCard with $ to cover camino charges, I checked and double checked that the four digit codes for each worked. On getting to Spain none if the cards worked, the four digit pin not accepted. I didn’t 59€ I phone calls on supposed toll free numbers for both Visa Mastercard ( from appropriate banks) who confirmed my cards were valid and that the numbers were valid and working. They did NOT work. I had brought a lot of cash and that’s what I live on now. From my two bank cards Royal Bank and ScotiaBank I was able to withdraw cash.
Lesson: don’t count on your credit cards to work in Spain.

Thank you. That has been a concern of mine.

 

[C clearly]

Thank you. That has been a concern of mine.

Before you draw any conclusions, you might want to read through the entire thread. Some concern is entirely reasonable, but I would emphasize that most people have no difficulty using their bank cards and credit cards with their 4-digit pins, in Spain. We never did determine exactly what the problem was with the OP, but there might have been some confusion about the PIN codes, which type of card was used, and the appropriate customer support numbers.

 

[sunflowers]

Hello pilgrims,

In order to avoid living the title of this thread, I am seeking assistance!
It has been many years since I have ventured over-seas.
I am now in official overwhelm researching (the pros and cons) of travel cards. Credit/Debit, Pre-paid and such.

Is there anyone, from Australia, who has recently walked the Camino? (France and Spain).
What worked for you regarding Euros with your trip?
The exchange, Australian dollar to Euro, seems rather low at the moment too.

I am currently banking with Westpac and have a regular (debit) Mastercard. (This banks also has their own pre-paid travel banking card). I am indeed suspicious of hidden fees and I am rather dyslexic when it comes to all things numbers!

Thank you kindly for any assistance or recommendations no matter where you hail..

 

[Former member 102963]

Hello pilgrims,

In order to avoid living the title of this thread, I am seeking assistance!
It has been many years since I have ventured over-seas.
I am now in official overwhelm researching (the pros and cons) of travel cards. Credit/Debit, Pre-paid and such.

Is there anyone, from Australia, who has recently walked the Camino? (France and Spain).
What worked for you regarding Euros with your trip?
The exchange, Australian dollar to Euro, seems rather low at the moment too.

I am currently banking with Westpac and have a regular (debit) Mastercard. (This banks also has their own pre-paid travel banking card). I am indeed suspicious of hidden fees and I am rather dyslexic when it comes to all things numbers!

Thank you kindly for any assistance or recommendations no matter where you hail..

Hi. Yes there are several Australian folks on here so will let them advise and if they don’t others can advise as the basics do not vary too much! Or vary much by country but there will the odd geo based tip! I remember one poster from Australia talking about a credit/debit card hybrid product that I have not seen in UK and the North American folks seems unaware of it too!

Don’t worry it’s easier than it sounds it you do a few basic things and avoid a few things too!. Be careful for the bad advice too of which there is plenty!

Also think about your own attitude to money. So for example pre paid cards tends to come with lots of fees, are relatively more costly, but if you are not good at budgeting, or likely to lose cards, they can be ok (as you are limited to the value on the card) they can be useful. Similarly some folks load up their credit card in advance which is not the best use of money, but does help with budgeting and means you don’t arrive home to a big bill, so it’s the tangible vs the intangible in some respects!

 

[camino07]

Hello pilgrims,

In order to avoid living the title of this thread, I am seeking assistance!
It has been many years since I have ventured over-seas.
I am now in official overwhelm researching (the pros and cons) of travel cards. Credit/Debit, Pre-paid and such.

Is there anyone, from Australia, who has recently walked the Camino? (France and Spain).
What worked for you regarding Euros with your trip?
The exchange, Australian dollar to Euro, seems rather low at the moment too.

I am currently banking with Westpac and have a regular (debit) Mastercard. (This banks also has their own pre-paid travel banking card). I am indeed suspicious of hidden fees and I am rather dyslexic when it comes to all things numbers!

Thank you kindly for any assistance or recommendations no matter where you hail..

Hi, I'm from WA . I always preload my Bankwest Mastercard for emergencies .I don't use it as a credit card but could if required.
In the past I have taken a travelcard loaded with a couple of thousand euros but this year got a recommendation for a Wise visa card , it was ideal and will use this in future. Google it and there's lots of info. I also take about 500 euros in cash. Hope this helps.

 

[sunflowers]

Yes, thanks for your comments Camino 07-- The "Wise" card recommendation has come up in my research. When you preload your Bankwest Mastercard, do you mean that you have extra Australian dollars in your account? Would there be a conversion fee if you used it in Spain/France?
Yes, I suppose every bank is different. And I need to ask. It is tricky when I do ask bank tellers at my bank as they do not seem so sure; they push numbers, websites, and "literature" in my direction "to research". I have tried, but I will press on...

The pre-paid travel card is free with Westpac, Travelling Man-- there do not seem to be any hidden fees...but perhaps I am deluding myself. Thanks again for giving your perspective.
Buen Camino

 

[dougfitz]

I am currently banking with Westpac and have a regular (debit) Mastercard. (This banks also has their own pre-paid travel banking card). I am indeed suspicious of hidden fees and I am rather dyslexic when it comes to all things numbers!

My approach has been to carry cards from both Visa and Mastercard. I normally withdraw a small amount of Euro when I am in the last transit airport or at the arrival airport from a bank ATM, although if there is a fixed transaction fee I think is too high, I may try another ATM or rely on using a card for transit fees or taxi fares.

I avoid carrying a lot of cash, normally enough to pay for meals and accommodation until I get to the next town with an ATM; and a cash reserve. That has gone wrong just once in over a decade of walking in Spain, Norway, Sweden and England, when I had to wait while a bank refilled its ATM after it had run out of notes over an Easter long weekend. I don't like to let my cash reserves get below 100 Euro, and don't like carrying more than 500 Euro.

 

[Pafayac]

I am indeed suspicious of hidden fees and I am rather dyslexic when it comes to all things numbers!

From my point of view, you should avoid prepaid. Credit card should also be handled with precautions because they could lead to spending too much money.
Offline-capable debit cards are the best choice: these cards prefers online behaviour (when you try to pay with them, the Point Of Sale will ask your bank your account balance), but they can work offline if there is no connection with your bank (for instance in train, plane...).
As a french man, my choice for foreign expenses is the Ultim card of Boursorama (a subsidiary of Société Générale), but I guess there are equivalent cards in Australia.

 

[camino07]

Yes, thanks for your comments Camino 07-- The "Wise" card recommendation has come up in my research. When you preload your Bankwest Mastercard, do you mean that you have extra Australian dollars in your account? Would there be a conversion fee if you used it in Spain/France?
Yes, I suppose every bank is different. And I need to ask. It is tricky when I do ask bank tellers at my bank as they do not seem so sure; they push numbers, websites, and "literature" in my direction "to research". I have tried, but I will press on...

The pre-paid travel card is free with Westpac, Travelling Man-- there do not seem to be any hidden fees...but perhaps I am deluding myself. Thanks again for giving your perspective.
Buen Camino

I put an extra amount of dollars in so I'm using my own money. I don't use it at ATMs but in Hotels etc.
Don't know about hidden fees.