OBSOLETE COVID THREAD Covid digital vaccine passport being prepared (for EU citizens)

[alexwalker]

EU announced today plans for a European vaccine passport. It will be valid for all persons within the EU economic zone. They did not say from when, but the intention is to ease travel within the EU before this summer.

This will be extremely important for tourist destinations especially in Spain, Italy, Greece, France, etc.

The situation for other continents was not mentioned, so it seems that this is a strictly European arrangement. Hopefully, it may extend to allow other continents as well, but as said, was not mentioned today.

European Commission proposes Green Pass for freedom of travel

What does the pass allow you to do? What does it tell border control about you? And why is 'reciprocity' the new buzzword? Find out here. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

 

[trecile]

I think that the idea of a vaccine passport may be a good idea, but is fraught with problems. The first of which is fairness while the vaccine is still in short supply.

 

[Deleted member 86813]

EU announced today plans for a European vaccine passport. It will be valid for all persons within the EU economic zone. They did not say from when, but the intention is to ease travel within the EU before this summer.

This will be extremely important for tourist destinations especially in Spain, Italy, Greece, France, etc.

The situation for other continents was not mentioned, so it seems that this is a strictly European arrangement. Hopefully, it may extend to allow other continents as well, but as said, was not mentioned today.

European Commission proposes Green Pass for freedom of travel

What does the pass allow you to do? What does it tell border control about you? And why is 'reciprocity' the new buzzword? Find out here. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

There will be similar bilateral arrangements between individual EU countries (Spain being one), and certain other nations - notably the UK. This is primarily driven by the UK's preponderance of tourists, and assisted by the speed of vaccine rollout there.

 

[wjohnk]

With a bit of International cooperation, (don't laugh) we could get a commonsense solution that could be worldwide!

 

[trecile]

With a bit of International cooperation, (don't laugh) we could get a commonsense solution that could be worldwide!

By the time that happens Covid will probably be past the pandemic stage, and be endemic.

 

[Former member 91017]

I think that the idea of a vaccine passport may be a good idea, but is fraught with problems. The first of which is fairness while the vaccine is still in short supply.

I agree BUT also think that it's wildly unfair to prevent tourism dependent locations from being able to admit low risk travellers until the various countries all/collectivley get their vaccine act together.

One way or another, fairness is compromised, but one mode allows tourist economies to resume some kind of operations. It's great that people from Galicia can walk in Galicia but there's no net gain to the region from the money spent; it is merely changing hands inside the same bubble.

 

[Tincatinker]

There will be similar bilateral arrangements between individual EU countries (Spain being one), and certain other nations - notably the UK. This is primarily driven by the UK's preponderance of tourists, and assisted by the speed of vaccine rollout there.

There is no mention of the UK in any of the current proposals. The UK is not a member of the EU. Any passport, such as proposed, will not be available to UK citizens. Any similar device developed by the UK, or any other non-EU country, would only be useable in the EU with community agreement. (Distant sound of a horse laughing)

 

[alexwalker]

There is no mention of the UK in any of the current proposals. The UK is not a member of the EU. Any passport, such as proposed, will not be available to UK citizens. Any similar device developed by the UK, or any other non-EU country, would only be useable in the EU with community agreement. (Distant sound of a horse laughing)

Below is a mention of UK and many other countries outside of EU planning to make agreement with Greece, independently of the EU green pass in an article from the same source as in my original post.

There has been quite a few articles about this green pass this afternoon. It is completely understandable as the economies of Greece, as well as Spain, and also Italy, are heavilydependent on visitors from abroad. Another spring/summer/autumn without tourists may be cathastrophical. Things/access possibilities may change very fast now.

So I strongly believe that the green pass will be available from mid-May, if not sooner. Good news for my autumn Camino...

https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/16...ments-with-ten-countries-on-vaccine-passports

 

[Tincatinker]

Alex, I’d really like to hope you are right. I’d like to see some government(s) participation in these discussions and pronouncements. What I am seeing is the travel and media industries cooking up their own storm. Much of what is being suggested might well suit the packaged travel industry: parcel of punters, plane, coach, resort and all you can eat buffet. Independent travel across national and regional boundaries will remain a challenge for a while. That said, I’ll be looking to an autumn / winter Camino. I’ll just not be booking any trains, boats or planes just yet.
Buen Camino amigo

 

[Deleted member 86813]

Alex, I’d really like to hope you are right. I’d like to see some government(s) participation in these discussions and pronouncements. What I am seeing is the travel and media industries cooking up their own storm. Much of what is being suggested might well suit the packaged travel industry: parcel of punters, plane, coach, resort and all you can eat buffet. Independent travel across national and regional boundaries will remain a challenge for a while. That said, I’ll be looking to an autumn / winter Camino. I’ll just not be booking any trains, boats or planes just yet.
Buen Camino amigo

There is much going on behind the scenes @Tincatinker . @alexwalker optimism is well founded. Anyway, it is futile to have this debate now as I can appreciate your need for concrete information - and I don't have that to give.

 

[alexwalker]

Alex, I’d really like to hope you are right. I’d like to see some government(s) participation in these discussions and pronouncements. What I am seeing is the travel and media industries cooking up their own storm. Much of what is being suggested might well suit the packaged travel industry: parcel of punters, plane, coach, resort and all you can eat buffet. Independent travel across national and regional boundaries will remain a challenge for a while. That said, I’ll be looking to an autumn / winter Camino. I’ll just not be booking any trains, boats or planes just yet.
Buen Camino amigo

Me too!

But today's announcement is not from the travel agencies (whom we do not need, being pilgrims), but from the EU Commission. That is a pretty governmental body.

I am sure that the southern European countries I mentioned earlier, and for us pilgrims, Spain especially, are pretty desperate to go back to business, if not as usual, atleast open up for safe (vaccinated) people. Greece is probably the most desperate entity: I have several friends there, and it is really bad there, so something has to happen. I believe this is what will happen quite soon; they are talking mid-May there. Tourist industry workers are being put in front of the vaccine que now. I predict it will happen in Spain too: Not neccessarily on the Caminos, but nevertheless.

"I’ll just not be booking any trains, boats or planes just yet."

Egualmente! Sitting still in the boat...

Buen Camino amigo! May our ways cross.

Edit: there was a 1hour press conference by the chairwoman of the EU Commission on the subject today. That seemed pretty serious, and hopeful, for us.

 

[Pilgrim9]

"Today [Wednesday 2021-March-17] the European Commission is proposing to create a Digital Green Certificate to facilitate safe free movement inside the EU during the COVID-19 pandemic."

Coronavirus: Commission proposes a Digital Green Certificate

Today the European Commission is proposing to create a Digital Green Certificate to facilitate safe free movement inside the EU during the COVID-19 pandemic.

ec.europa.eu

 

[Camineiro]

I guess there will be no problem for pilgrims if he/she/divers shows the “oldfashioned“ yellow papermade International Certificate Of Vaccination, issued by the WHO, on request.

 

[Tincatinker]

This from the EU https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_1181 and worth careful reading before non-EU citizens start booking flights.

"The Digital Green Certificate will be valid in all EU Member States and open for Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway as well as Switzerland. The Digital Green Certificate should be issued to EU citizens and their family members, regardless of their nationality. It should also be issued to non-EU nationals who reside in the EU and to visitors who have the right to travel to other Member States."

Lykke til @alexwalker

 

[jpflavin1]

This addresses EU citizens but what about non EU tourists. I have had my shots and have a card provided by local government stating dates and which vaccine. Will that be adequate in EU? I think this would be a good idea as it relates to all mass travel.

That said, I realize many have not been able to access vaccines. Therefore, an inclusive process needs to be offered for those folks and also for those who choose not to vaccinate. ie: test before mass travel.

 

[alexwalker]

This from the EU https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_1181 and worth careful reading before non-EU citizens start booking flights.

"The Digital Green Certificate will be valid in all EU Member States and open for Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway as well as Switzerland. The Digital Green Certificate should be issued to EU citizens and their family members, regardless of their nationality. It should also be issued to non-EU nationals who reside in the EU and to visitors who have the right to travel to other Member States."

Lykke til @alexwalker

THANK YOU!!

Yes, I'm in for vaccine within a month's time (I am +65 (67)). After that, it wiill be 6 weeks on Kreta (Crete, Greece), followed by some cottage time home, before setting out for 2 slow months on CF starting early Sept. Thank you, EU!

 

[Colette Z]

EU announced today plans for a European vaccine passport. It will be valid for all persons within the EU economic zone. They did not say from when, but the intention is to ease travel within the EU before this summer.

This will be extremely important for tourist destinations especially in Spain, Italy, Greece, France, etc.

The situation for other continents was not mentioned, so it seems that this is a strictly European arrangement. Hopefully, it may extend to allow other continents as well, but as said, was not mentioned today.

European Commission proposes Green Pass for freedom of travel

What does the pass allow you to do? What does it tell border control about you? And why is 'reciprocity' the new buzzword? Find out here. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

I’m very disappointed that Canada is questioning the “privacy” issue of such passports . Not sure how we will prove our vaccination is complete when we travel to Europe. I received my first AstraZeneca dose yesterday due to a glitch by the Canadian “experts” who can’t seem to decide if it’s safe or not. For only 5 days in Ontario this week, 60-64 year olds qualified for the AZ vaccine. Then the experts backtracked and said AZ is safe for 65+ hence the 60-64 year old group now must wait until maybe early June for first dose. I’m so grateful to get vaccinated 2 months before others in my age group. And I had only a mildly sore arm this morning and a mild headache ......went for a 10 km walk. So grateful and happy!

 

[lt56ny]

So much speculation it makes me small brain swim and my old heart sink. When are these governments going to get their S*&t together?????

 

[trecile]

A thread on the same topic was started yesterday

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/covid-digital-vaccine-passport-being-prepared-for-eu-citizens.69595/#post-908388

 

[wayfarer]

Threads merged.

 

[Marbe2]

Today, Iceland is allowing Americans who have had vaccinations to enter the country without quarantining. One needs a certificate of vaccination! I am not exactly clear if there is some standard form they are requiring,though my record of vaccination card has the information that is being required. It is a start! O happy days....

https://www.icelandair.com/blog/iceland-is-open-faq/

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Today, Iceland is allowing Americans who have had vaccinations to enter the country without quarantining. One needs a certificate of vaccination! I am not exactly clear if there is some standard form they are requiring,though my record of vaccination card has the information that is being required. It is a start! O happy days....

https://www.icelandair.com/blog/iceland-is-open-faq/

But Iceland has a other problem at the moment.
There where about 20000 earthquakes started at Febr. 24th. , and there is no end in side.

 

[Marbe2]

But Iceland has a other problem at the moment.
There where about 20000 earthquakes started at Febr. 24th. , and there is no end in side.

Not planning to go to Iceland...but the movement is encouraging.

 

[jpflavin1]

Unfortunately, the chances of getting 218 countries to agree on a process is Utopic in thought and remote in reality.

 

[Marbe2]

Unfortunately, the chances of getting 218 countries to agree on a process is Utopic in thought and remote in reality.

I think the economic impact on EU countries will influence the opening up of their countries to vaccinated individuals with or without EU blessings this coming summer...

 

[Tincatinker]

Not planning to go to Iceland...but the movement is encouraging.

But Iceland has a other problem at the moment.
There where about 20000 earthquakes started at Febr. 24th. , and there is no end in side.

You two are 'aving a giraffe ain't ya? ( I have assumed that references to Iceland, Earthquakes, Movements etc can be taken as light-hearted in intent )

 

[Bala]

That said, I realize many have not been able to access vaccines. Therefore, an inclusive process needs to be offered for those folks and also for those who choose not to vaccinate. ie: test before mass travel.

Point 2 in the link @Tincatinker provided above allows a negative test result or certification of already having antibodies from a bout with the virus. Nothing about non-EU tourists so far, though, other than a few specifically named countries.

 

[Marbe2]

Point 2 in the link @Tincatinker provided above allows a negative test result or certification of already having antibodies from a bout with the virus. Nothing about non-EU tourists so far, though, other than a few specifically named countries.

The posted article (#21), as i understand , does not exempt non vaccinated from quarantining? Many folks who walk a camino don't have an extra 5-14 days to quarantine when coming from overseas....so practically speaking, only vaccinated get a get out of jail card if this standard was applied. And IMO it should be...

 

[David61]

You two are 'aving a giraffe ain't ya? ( I have assumed that references to Iceland, Earthquakes, Movements etc can be taken as light-hearted in intent )

Apparently not. I thought it was a typo but Google reveals as many as 40,000 now

 

[maruska89]

I’m very disappointed that Canada is questioning the “privacy” issue of such passports . Not sure how we will prove our vaccination is complete when we travel to Europe. I received my first AstraZeneca dose yesterday due to a glitch by the Canadian “experts” who can’t seem to decide if it’s safe or not. For only 5 days in Ontario this week, 60-64 year olds qualified for the AZ vaccine. Then the experts backtracked and said AZ is safe for 65+ hence the 60-64 year old group now must wait until maybe early June for first dose. I’m so grateful to get vaccinated 2 months before others in my age group. And I had only a mildly sore arm this morning and a mild headache ......went for a 10 km walk. So grateful and happy!

I for one am nervous about a vaccine passport or anything else that contains ones medical information... just not there yet... besides being unfair to poorer countries that may not get enough vaccines for all their citizens, there are just too many variables.... then, in the future will we need a passport showing we are in good health and will not be a burden to the countries we visit?...

 

[Marbe2]

Good news about Travel passports!
All ready being tested in trial flights.

Covid: Airline industry travel pass ready 'within weeks'

Industry body IATA says it sees its pass as essential for reopening quarantine-free travel.

www.bbc.com

 

[JabbaPapa]

I think that the idea of a vaccine passport may be a good idea, but is fraught with problems. The first of which is fairness while the vaccine is still in short supply.

And those who, for whatever reason, cannot be vaccinated.

It should be noted that such a passport remains unnecessary for land travel over the EU's internal land borders.

The posted article (#21), as i understand , does not exempt non vaccinated from quarantining? Many folks who walk a camino don't have an extra 5-14 days to quarantine when coming from overseas....so practically speaking, only vaccinated get a get out of jail card if this standard was applied. And IMO it should be...

Quarantine requirements concern incoming travel from certain particular countries, not your vaccination status. If a "vaccine passport" lets you get 'round that, then it's a plus, not a minus.

 

[JabbaPapa]

The Council of Europe has also formally demanded of all of its 47 Member States (including all Members of the EU) to :

* ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves;

* ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated;

This is a very important determination regarding these vaccine passports, as the European Court of Human Rights is a body of the Council of Europe, and it has jurisdiction over any decisions rendered by EU Council, the European Court of Justice, and any Member States of the EU and outside.

Which doesn't mean that the passports couldn't permit individuals to be exempted from quarantine requirements.

 

[Harland2019]

Hopefully travel between the UK and the EU will be sorted. However because of what is perceived as an anti-Uk stance by the EU politicians, I am hearing that more and more people are intending to stay in the UK for their vacation. That will be a shame as the tourist "hot spots" will continue to suffer although the UK ones will benefit. However, I don't expect any pilgrims will be put off. My intended date remains April/May next year when "all will be well"!!!!!!

 

[JabbaPapa]

Hopefully travel between the UK and the EU will be sorted.

Much it it will remain difficult for at least four weeks, as the French Départements closest to the UK have gone back into lockdown.

 

[wjohnk]

Many years ago one needed a Smallpox certificate to enter the USA!

 

[Marbe2]

<i>Hopefully travel between the UK and the EU will be sorted</i>

Much it it will remain difficult for at least four weeks, as the French Départements closest to the UK have gone back into lockdown.

Right now, residents in The United states can also fly between states without a Vaccination. However, practically speaking, we will not be able to monitor visitors from other countries quarantining upon arrival in the USA. I can’t fathom our current government, will allow anyone to enter without an approved vaccine....

@JabbaPapa until there is herd immunity, and with variances around, I doubt many countries will allow any international passengers in or out without a vaccine,or a period of strict quarantine. Vaccination requirements are nothing new. Countries have required vaccines for other diseases.

https://www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdf

 

[Marbe2]

The IATA is developing a platform which will be able to incorporate the data from other systems to make the process smoother. I believe that Amercan, Delta and United are already on board and preparing for passengers to use this system.

 

[Kathor1]

The envisaged EU "Digital Green Certificate" will not be an entry requirement. It's supposed to encourage and support the revival of tourism this summer within the EU. It's not a "vaccination passport".

It's supposed to carry information about whether the holder had received a Covid-19 vaccination and/or had a recent negative test result and/or had recovered from Covid-19 within the last 6 months, see short 1-minute info video here. Nobody knows what kind of data it will contain in the end and when it will be available. The data will be stored in a scannable QR code in digital form or on paper. It's not for tomorrow.

And there's not much in the proposal that clarifies how the certificate can be used and by whom.

In 2019, Spain counted over 80 million foreign tourists (including Camino pilgrims).
More than 40 million came from other EU countries and the Nordic countries.
Nearly 20 million from the UK.
Makes together 60 million or 75% of the total.

It's obvious where their priorities lie.

 

[Marbe2]

​

Part of an Article today from WPO: Vaccine Passports

International air travel has collapsed during the pandemic, as countries impose restrictions such as quarantines or outright bans to curb the spread of the virus. Airlines are counting on vaccine passports to convince governments to drop some of those restrictions that discourage visitors.
“The significance of this to re-starting international aviation cannot be overstated,” said Alexandre de Juniac, the CEO of the airline trade
Operators of hotels that depend on international visitors are also eager to see the passes adopted.

The airline trade group tested its app Wednesday on a Singapore Airlines flight to London. A passenger put a digital version of his passport, coronavirus test results, and travel restrictions at his destination on a mobile device.

WHERE WOULD THESE PASSES BE REQUIRED?
Vaccine passports will be most common on international flights. Some countries already require proof of vaccination for diseases such as yellow fever, and the United States now requires a negative test for COVID-19 to enter the country, so a digital health passport isn’t much of a leap.

WHAT ARE THE RISKS?

The available vaccines are most effective at preventing serious illness, but that doesn’t rule out the possibility that vaccinated travelers could still spread the virus.
“I think we have enough evidence right now to say that these vaccines cut transmission, that vaccinated people are much less likely to transmit the disease,” says Ashish Jha, dean of the public health school at Brown University. “How. much? We don’t know.” He guesses it’s around 80%.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention still recommends against travel even as the agency has relaxed other guidelines for people who have been vaccinated.

WHAT ABOUT FAIRNESS?

Other critics say the certificates will primarily benefit people in wealthier countries and relatively affluent people within each country — those who are mostly likely to be vaccinated quickly, and most likely to have smartphones.
“It’s going to be the wealthy, the privileged, who are going to get to fly around, and other people won’t have access to that,” says Lisa Eckenwiler, who teaches health ethics at George Mason University. She sees a particular potential for unfairness if health passes expand to work places and schools.

WHAT ABOUT PRIVACY?

Consumers will be nervous about sharing health information that might get hacked or exposed in a breach, says Stephen Beck of management consultancy cg42.
“When it comes down to it, people are going to ask themselves, is sharing sensitive information worth the trade-off for a leisure trip?” he says, “and for many, the answer will be no.” IATA and IBM say their passes use blockchain technology and the information won’t be stored in a central place.

WHAT ROLE WILL THE U.S. GOVERNMENT PLAY?

Airline and business groups are lobbying the White House to take the lead in setting standards for health passes. They believe that would avoid a hodge-podge of regional credentials that could cause confusion among travelers and prevent any single health certificate from being widely accepted.
But the Biden administration says it is up to the private sector and nonprofits to figure out how Americans can demonstrate that they have been vaccinated or tested. “It’s not the role of the government to hold that data and to do that,” Andy Slavitt, a White House virus-response adviser, said this week. “It needs to be private, the data should be secure, the access to it should be free, it should be available both digitally and in paper and in multiple languages.”
Other governments, like those in Israel and Denmark, are taking a more active role.

 

[thetimman]

EU announced today plans for a European vaccine passport. It will be valid for all persons within the EU economic zone. They did not say from when, but the intention is to ease travel within the EU before this summer.

This will be extremely important for tourist destinations especially in Spain, Italy, Greece, France, etc.

The situation for other continents was not mentioned, so it seems that this is a strictly European arrangement. Hopefully, it may extend to allow other continents as well, but as said, was not mentioned today.

European Commission proposes Green Pass for freedom of travel

What does the pass allow you to do? What does it tell border control about you? And why is 'reciprocity' the new buzzword? Find out here. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

Why do you say “hopefully, it may extend...” to an Orwellian restriction on freedom of movement?

 

[Kathor1]

Orwellian restriction on freedom of movement?

Not sure what you are referring to. The future "Digital Green Certificate" for EU citizens or the Schengen entry stamp in the passport of US citizens?

The Digital Green Certificate is optional, no EU citizen is obliged to get it, it will just make travelling to Spain and other EU countries less of a hassle but it won't restrict our rights to freedom of movement within the EU in any way.

The Schengen entry stamp on the other hand is obligatory, you won't get into Spain from outside the EU without it and it severely restricts your freedom of movement because you can exercise it only for maximum 90 days at a time. Refuse it and they won't let you in.

 

[lunna]

I'm puzzled why this card wouldn't be limited just to those who have been vaccinated. A negative test doesn't mean that the person won't get the virus afterwards nor does having had COVID before ensure that the person is immune from reinfection. While I understand it will take time to vaccinate all persons, if we are to believe the experts, the vaccination is the safest and most reliable indicator that one will not catch the virus (at least most variants of it) - though for how long is a completely different question.

 

[Kathor1]

I'm puzzled why this card wouldn't be limited just to those who have been vaccinated. A negative test doesn't mean that the person won't get the virus afterwards nor does having had COVID before ensure that the person is immune from reinfection.

The Digital Green Certificate (it's a QR code in digital form on a smartphone or printed on paper) serves to make travel within the EU easier, smoother, for both the countries and the travellers within the EU. If you are required to present or be in possession of a negative result of a recent PCR test or antigen test, as is currently the case, you need to present it somehow or you need to be in possession of it somehow. So in future you could have it stored in this Certificate - the same format for everyone travelling to and from everywhere within the EU, instead of a myriad of 27 or more different national systems. As to having had the Covid-19 illness, the proposal suggests that only information of an illness within the last 6 months can be stored on the Certificate.

In any case, nothing has been decided yet. The exact details will be discussed by the relevant actors in the coming weeks.

 

[Former member 91017]

I find it peculiar that people think current travel restrictions related to health status are not already in play.
Those of us with “known conditions” have to carry medical documentation saying that it is safe for us to travel, to explain any medications we might have to carry that are “unusual”, and to have privately paid-for health insurance to cover evacuating us out of whatever accidents/injuries/illnesses might befall us while travelling.

To fail to so so can incur a wide variety of penalties that can include the refusal of treatment in the country one is visiting, ejection from the country (let’s say you test positive for TB for example, or HIV —- back you go to your country of origin).

There is *already* a class-system in play.

That some people travel without being able to afford the consequences of a health crisis is, I suppose, fine from some ”personal choice” advocacy perspectives, but it is inadvisable, might be against the law, might violate the travel insurance you do buy if you don’t get that medical clearance to go with it.... and so on and so on.

The legal nuances are many, and varied the world over.... but it is an absolute delusion to think that borders are not now, and have not been for hundreds of years, very VERY much concerned with protecting local health resources, and local citizens from the arrival of massively contagious infections.

There are laws to prevent anyone who has lived in the UK or Ireland from donating blood in the US or Canada because of fears about BSE.

Canada requires that all immigrants test for TB and HIV and HEP-C and be put into mandatory treatment that can include confinement.

NZ recently rejected the application of a Canadian professor to acquire residency in NZ because his child has Down Syndrome.

In the history of the world, there is nothing unusual about these proposed vaccine passports, and travel...

Even with its “democratized” pricing, travel post WWII has been the *privilege* of people from wealthier nations, and of wealthier groups within those nations. Travel is for those with “time wealth” as much as “monetary wealth”.

To suddenly crow about it being unfair smacks of feelings of entitlement that fail to understand that travel brings health threats to the nations visited. COVID presents a possibility for many EU countries to be ploughed under for decades and decades to come if people are allowed to enter with their silent COVID infections into a largely unvaccinated population.

The vaccine documents offer states the knowledge of solid points at which their own residents cease being vulnerable. They are like licenses to return to some semblance of ”life as usual”. To refuse to allow local populations in the EU this security is galling, frankly.

<edited this afternoon for readability and typos>

 

[An Tincéir]

EU announced today plans for a European vaccine passport. It will be valid for all persons within the EU economic zone. They did not say from when, but the intention is to ease travel within the EU before this summer.

This will be extremely important for tourist destinations especially in Spain, Italy, Greece, France, etc.

The situation for other continents was not mentioned, so it seems that this is a strictly European arrangement. Hopefully, it may extend to allow other continents as well, but as said, was not mentioned today.

European Commission proposes Green Pass for freedom of travel

What does the pass allow you to do? What does it tell border control about you? And why is 'reciprocity' the new buzzword? Find out here. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

The idea of vaccine pass ports is being treated as something controversial and new. They are new only in name and not at all controversial. Proof of inoculation (vaccination) against various diseases has been a standard requirement when travelling to/from many countries for decades. With a disease as fatal and infectious as Covid -19 it’s amazing that anyone would object to it being included in the list.

 

[C clearly]

it is an absolute delusion to think that borders are not now, and have not been for hundreds of years, very VERY much concerned with protecting local health resources, and local citizens from the arrival of massively contagious infections.

there is nothing unusual about these proposed vaccine passports, and travel... even with its “democratized” pricing post WWII has been the *privilege* of people from wealthier nations, and of wealthier groups within those nations. Travel is for those with “time wealth” as much as “monetary wealth”.

Excellent post, Faye!

 

[alexwalker]

Why do you say “hopefully, it may extend...” to an Orwellian restriction on freedom of movement?

FYI:

You have misunderstood the "freedom of movement".

Before I embarked on a sailing circumnavigation of this world, I was required to have many different vaccines, recorded in a yellow "vaccine pass" in order to simply getting access to many countries, as well as to protect myself from serious diseases. This was in 2008, so it is not a new concept.

The concept of "quarantine" (Which I wrote a separate post on in this forum) has been used for centuries to separate risky people from the healthy...

 

[Kathor1]

People are not happy with public health policies, mainly in their own countries. Hence the talk about "freedom".

Freedom of movement doesn't mean that you can travel to anywhere at any time the way you like it best. Freedom of movement means that you can move freely in your own country, or within the EU in this case, subject to some restrictions, in particular restrictions necessary to protect public health or public order, and that you have the right to leave the area and the right to return to the area.

If you are not an EU citizen or an EU resident, you don't have freedom of movement in the EU. It's as simple as that.

 

[An Tincéir]

"Today [Wednesday 2021-March-17] the European Commission is proposing to create a Digital Green Certificate to facilitate safe free movement inside the EU during the COVID-19 pandemic."

Coronavirus: Commission proposes a Digital Green Certificate

Today the European Commission is proposing to create a Digital Green Certificate to facilitate safe free movement inside the EU during the COVID-19 pandemic.

ec.europa.eu

Why not just add it to the existing yellow booklet

 

[An Tincéir]

I for one am nervous about a vaccine passport or anything else that contains ones medical information... just not there yet... besides being unfair to poorer countries that may not get enough vaccines for all their citizens, there are just too many variables.... then, in the future will we need a passport showing we are in good health and will not be a burden to the countries we visit?...

The US effectively already has this

 

[Tincatinker]

Why not just add it to the existing yellow booklet

You’re an EU member. When was the most recent time you were asked to produce your Yellow Fever vaccination certificate to enter continental EU?

 

[Former member 91017]

FYI:

You have misunderstood the "freedom of movement".

Before I embarked on a sailing circumnavigation of this world, I was required to have many different vaccines, recorded in a yellow "vaccine pass" in order to simply getting access to many countries, as well as to protect myself from serious diseases. This was in 2008, so it is not a new concept.

The concept of "quarantine" (Which I wrote a separate post on in this forum) has been used for centuries to separate risky people from the healthy...

Indeed... quarantine appears in the Hippocratic Corpus (roughly 4th C BCE) as a period of 40 days in which to distinguish what form of disease (contagious or not, resolving or not) a person was suffering from.

 

[An Tincéir]

You’re an EU member. When was the most recent time you were asked to produce your Yellow Fever vaccination certificate to enter continental EU?

I have not been asked, but I have been required to present it entering other countries. Circumstances have changed dramatically in the past 15 months world wide. The extension of the yellow record to include Covid seems to be an obvious and necessary interim solution to the current problem. Bear in mind that vaccination does not mean one cannot be a carrier even if one is protected from infection, hence interim.

 

[alexwalker]

Indeed... quarantine appears in the Hippocratic Corpus (roughly 4th C BCE) as a period of 40 days in which to distinguish what form of disease (contagious or not, resolving or not) a person was suffering from.

Quarantine: quarenta dias: 40 days of isolation.

All in all, we have a global situation. We must accept it, and do our best of coming back to life. The EU iniative is a welcome start of that, IMHO.

 

[C clearly]

Why not just add it to the existing yellow booklet

Well, that would require every country to to start reprinting millions of those little books or folders and having the nurses write in the dose, date, and location with pen and ink for the millions of people who want to travel. Then all the border agents in all countries will need to be familiarized with the book and how to determine that it isn't a fake. There could be quite an easy black market in little yellow books!

In the past, the proof of vaccination was needed mainly for travel to/from certain countries where those diseases were endemic. Most travelers in the rest of the world did not need them. Now, in 2021 and beyond, all travelers to/from all countries will need them.

In this day of electronic information, some things are easier and possible but there are additional issues of privacy and security of information that need to be dealt with. But let's face it - the existing yellow booklet is not the solution for mass travel today. The only relevance to this discussion is to point out that the requirement for vaccine certification for travel has existed for a long time.

 

[An Tincéir]

Well, that would require every country to to start reprinting millions of those little books or folders and having the nurses write in the dose, date, and location with pen and ink for the millions of people who want to travel. Then all the border agents in all countries will need to be familiarized with the book and how to determine that it isn't a fake. There could be quite an easy black market in little yellow books!

In the past, the proof of vaccination was needed mainly for travel to/from certain countries where those diseases were endemic. Most travelers in the rest of the world did not need them. Now, in 2021 and beyond, all travelers to/from all countries will need them.

In this day of electronic information, some things are easier and possible but there are additional issues of privacy and security of information that need to be dealt with. But let's face it - the existing yellow booklet is not the solution for mass travel today. The only relevance to this discussion is to point out that the requirement for vaccine certification for travel has existed for a long time.

True. I should have seen that.

 

[henrythedog]

You’re an EU member. When was the most recent time you were asked to produce your Yellow Fever vaccination certificate to enter continental EU?

I've only got one because I didn't read the entry requirements to India and Borneo sufficiently carefully. It's only required if travelling from a country in which YF is endemic.

 

[Kathor1]

You’re an EU member. When was the most recent time you were asked to produce your Yellow Fever vaccination certificate to enter continental EU?

I can't even remember the last time I had to show my passport when travelling from one EU country to another. Neither can I remember when I last held a boarding card in my hands when travelling from one EU country to another; it's either a QR code in digital form on my iPhone or I've printed the code on a sheet of paper. Nowadays, they have these small scanning machines in airports, you know.

 

[alexwalker]

I can't even remember the last time I had to show my passport when travelling from one EU country to another. Neither can I remember when I last held a boarding card in my hands when travelling from one EU country to another; it's either a QR code in digital form on my iPhone or I've printed the code on a sheet of paper. Nowadays, they have these small scanning machines in airports, you know.

He, he, I have a VERY impressive yellow vaccination card after I prepared for a 5-year long sailing around the world. I have never had any use for it. But this upcoming EU green card may allow me to travel to other EU countries this year, and I very much appreciate it.

 

[trecile]

Well, that would require every country to to start reprinting millions of those little books or folders and having the nurses write in the dose, date, and location with pen and ink for the millions of people who want to travel. Then all the border agents in all countries will need to be familiarized with the book and how to determine that it isn't a fake. There could be quite an easy black market in little yellow books!

In the past, the proof of vaccination was needed mainly for travel to/from certain countries where those diseases were endemic. Most travelers in the rest of the world did not need them. Now, in 2021 and beyond, all travelers to/from all countries will need them.

In this day of electronic information, some things are easier and possible but there are additional issues of privacy and security of information that need to be dealt with. But let's face it - the existing yellow booklet is not the solution for mass travel today. The only relevance to this discussion is to point out that the requirement for vaccine certification for travel has existed for a long time.

Plus the high probability of counterfeit yellow cards/booklets being made and sold.

 

[peregrina2000]

I am sorry for my bungling of an issue that was reported on this thread by multiple members. At first, we left the inappropriate comment up, followed by stern disagreements and criticisms posted in rebuttal by other forum members. But in light of subsequent PMs I have gotten, on reflection, it is the case that we have never left something like this remain in print here, so I have gone back and deleted everything.

 

[Bob from L.A. !]

I think the economic impact on EU countries will influence the opening up of their countries to vaccinated individuals with or without EU blessings this coming summer...

I fully agree with this point...

 

[mikebet]

I think that the idea of a vaccine passport may be a good idea, but is fraught with problems. The first of which is fairness while the vaccine is still in short supply.

I'll bet that if you were a hotel or restaurant owner dependent on the tourist trade you'd think it was pretty unfair to see your business go under while waiting for everyone to get vaccinated. The sooner this economic damage can be undone the better for everyone, traveler or not.

 

[Kathor1]

with or without EU blessings

It is actually Spain and the other southern EU countries who have been pushing for this kind of EU wide certificate. Some of the other EU countries feel rather lukewarm about this project.

Several ministers of the Spanish government have already announced that they are working on this type of digital certificate and are planning pilot projects on Mallorca and the Balearic Islands, possibly also on the Canary Islands and in one not yet specified area on the Spanish mainland.

 

[Albertagirl]

As some posts have pointed out, it is currently impossible to know whether someone who is fully vaccinated can get COVID-19, or pass it on to others. Rightly or wrongly, there have been doubts about some vaccines, but that does not mean that all the others are perfectly safe and effective, as we would have them be. So travel remains dangerous, both to the traveller and to those whose countries are visited. Vaccinated travellers may be more dangerous to those in the places to which they journey. If we pick up the SARS-CoV-2 virus after being vaccinated, no documentation will protect those in the countries to which we travel. And few or no symptoms may make us dangerous carriers, especially those of us who stay in communal living facilities. Only time and further research can clarify the ongoing situation.

 

[jpflavin1]

We can not keep living with all this uncertainty. The world has to get together and set some parameters under which we can get back to some level of normality. We are NEVER going to be 100% certain.

That said, let's lay down some ground rules (vaccination or current test or antibody test etc.) and you can travel. You could add caveats that maybe someone needs a test before trip and upon arrival or set some nominal quarantine with a test. The time has come to move forward, imo.

There should also Key lessons, hopefully learned, developed and in place for the next pandemic ie;
1. Agreed upon mitigation plans,
2. Vaccination development processes, (though that seemed to work well),
3. Enhanced ability to mass produce vaccines world wide
4. Logistics to distribute world wide
5. Processes to vaccinate all from major cities to the most remote locations.

 

[Kathor1]

Fwiw, the website Schengenvisainfo.com published today photos of prototypes of the Digital Green Certificates. I find that this website often has up to date and accurate information about travelling & the EU/Schengen zone. The photos show the prototypes for the digital form and the paper form. Roll-out is planned for June 2021.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

There is going to be a day in the future when you won't even think about Covid-19 for days at a time.

 

[edandjoan]

There is going to be a day in the future when you won't even think about Covid-19 for days at a time.

I look forward to that day!

 

[Marbe2]

Since

I am afraid that US citizens will have to wait for a long time before being able to return to Europe: The EU is worried about how to allow its own citizens become tourists within its borders first and foremost, as I understand it. Many countries are depending heavily on internal European tourism, much more than on pilgrims coming from outside the EU. Pilgrim "tourism" is just a tiny fraction of the visitors to EU, and mostly in Spain. Most pilgrims are from the EU (Spanish people mostly; the people from outside EU on the Caminos are just a fraction of a tiny fraction).

And the (now inevitably, it seems) EU vaccine passport is now well underway ,it seems, making tourism dependable countries like Spain, Greece, Italy very happy. It has to come, IMHO.

So yes, a US thread may be proper.

As you know, GB, is now a non EU country which visits Spain more than any other nation. i believe USA was 6th, with 4 only four nations from the EU with more visitors, those were from Germany, France , Italy, and Netherlands having more visitors/ tourists (not pilgrims) to its country. Do not underestimate the number of visitors from the USA from those top 6 countries... turns out to be be about 13 percent of the top 6 countries visiting Spain.

Also take a look atthe countries spendingthe most money abroad!

World's Biggest Spenders on Tourism

Locals from these countries shell out the most to travel the world.

www.farandwide.com

The private sector will solve the problem of Global passports. I will sign up with IATA soon as available.

 

[Marc S.]

As you know, GB, is now a non EU country which visits Spain more than any other nation. i believe USA was 6th, with 4 only four nations from the EU with more visitors, those were from Germany, France , Italy, and Netherlands having more visitors/ tourists (not pilgrims) to its country. Do not underestimate the number of visitors from the USA from those top 6 countries... turns out to be be about 13 percent of the top 6 countries visiting Spain.

I am not sure what you are trying to say by providing these figures. USA may be 6th on the list, but that is not really the point.

More importantly. Only app 3 % of tourists visiting Spain is from the USA.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Spain#Arrivals_by_country)

Current priority within Europe is to increase tourism from EU countries and non-EU European countries. Welcoming back American tourists is just not top European priority at the moment, and understandably so.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Some quotes from a New York times article about European tourism.

"Spain, which relies heavily on tourism for its economy, said it would reopen to international visitors in the spring, once between 30 and 40 percent of its adult population is vaccinated.
Portugal is also hoping to reopen its borders by May, but it is not yet clear whether Americans will be allowed in." (They did not cite a source for this information)

Also:
Finally, we have a tangible solution to coordinating and harmonizing travel measures,” said Eduardo Santander, chief executive of the European Travel Commission, an association of national tourism organizations based in Brussels. “I think other countries like the U.S. will also come up with their own technological solutions that will be compatible and after a period of trials this summer, a global standard will be established.”

 

[Deleted member 86813]

Talking his own book

Ryanair boss predicts easing of restrictions on flights to Europe

O'Leary said that whilst it is 'foolhardy' to book for a getaway in April or May, he believes 'Europe will catch up' in June, July and August - making way for holidays 'to places like Corfu, Santorini, Ibiza'.

mol.im

 

[Former member 95219]

Since

As you know, GB, is now a non EU country which visits Spain more than any other nation. i believe USA was 6th, with 4 only four nations from the EU with more visitors, those were from Germany, France , Italy, and Netherlands having more visitors/ tourists (not pilgrims) to its country. Do not underestimate the number of visitors from the USA from those top 6 countries... turns out to be be about 13 percent of the top 6 countries visiting Spain.

Also take a look atthe countries spendingthe most money abroad!

World's Biggest Spenders on Tourism

Locals from these countries shell out the most to travel the world.

www.farandwide.com

The private sector will solve the problem of Global passports. I will sign up with IATA soon as available.

Good article and thank you for posting. I knew that China was number 1 and good to see it verified here! Pleased to see UK so high too which will hopefully give our government some leverage moving forward!

 

[gayeh]

Point 2 in the link @Tincatinker provided above allows a negative test result or certification of already having antibodies from a bout with the virus. Nothing about non-EU tourists so far, though, other than a few specifically named countries.

Just joined the forum after it was recommended by other experienced (Canadian) pilgrims. i am planning 1st camino September or earlier depending on pandemic. i will be full vaccinated April 29. I have EU (Irish) citizenship and CAD. Does anyone know if I will simply need to bring my CAD certificate of vaccination OR If this might make me eligible to receive the EU digital proof? I’m wondering who I might write to for confirmation and all other update(s).

 

[C clearly]

Welcome to the forum @gayeh. As you browse through this forum, you'll find many threads discussing the travel restrictions, lockdowns, and everything else related to Covid. We have members expressing their views from perspectives that reflect a huge range of knowledge and opinions.

Does anyone know if I will simply need to bring my CAD certificate of vaccination OR If this might make me eligible to receive the EU digital proof?

No, no one knows. The authorities are still trying to work out the logistics of documentation, and they are making decisions about travel restrictions in response to the day-to-day status of the pandemic.

Any travel decisions you decide to make now are at your own risk. Maybe by mid-May (when your antibodies are fully developed), there will be a clear process in place. But maybe on the other hand, we will be in more severe lockdown that ever and the authorities will still be struggling with the certification logistics!

 

[gayeh]

Welcome to the forum @gayeh. As you browse through this forum, you'll find many threads discussing the travel restrictions, lockdowns, and everything else related to Covid. We have members expressing their views from perspectives that reflect a huge range of knowledge and opinions.

No, no one knows. The authorities are still trying to work out the logistics of documentation, and they are making decisions about travel restrictions in response to the day-to-day status of the pandemic.

Any travel decisions you decide to make now are at your own risk. Maybe by mid-May (when your antibodies are fully developed), there will be a clear process in place. But maybe on the other hand, we will be in more severe lockdown that ever and the authorities will still be struggling with the certification logistics!

Thanks. Yes, we are in a fluid state still but hope springs eternal!

 

[Francis K]

EU announced today plans for a European vaccine passport. It will be valid for all persons within the EU economic zone. They did not say from when, but the intention is to ease travel within the EU before this summer.

This will be extremely important for tourist destinations especially in Spain, Italy, Greece, France, etc.

The situation for other continents was not mentioned, so it seems that this is a strictly European arrangement. Hopefully, it may extend to allow other continents as well, but as said, was not mentioned today.

European Commission proposes Green Pass for freedom of travel

What does the pass allow you to do? What does it tell border control about you? And why is 'reciprocity' the new buzzword? Find out here. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

I am an EU citizen and have had the second jab, but I live in London. Any idea if I will be able to access (and use)

EU announced today plans for a European vaccine passport. It will be valid for all persons within the EU economic zone. They did not say from when, but the intention is to ease travel within the EU before this summer.

This will be extremely important for tourist destinations especially in Spain, Italy, Greece, France, etc.

The situation for other continents was not mentioned, so it seems that this is a strictly European arrangement. Hopefully, it may extend to allow other continents as well, but as said, was not mentioned today.

European Commission proposes Green Pass for freedom of travel

What does the pass allow you to do? What does it tell border control about you? And why is 'reciprocity' the new buzzword? Find out here. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

EU announced today plans for a European vaccine passport. It will be valid for all persons within the EU economic zone. They did not say from when, but the intention is to ease travel within the EU before this summer.

This will be extremely important for tourist destinations especially in Spain, Italy, Greece, France, etc.

The situation for other continents was not mentioned, so it seems that this is a strictly European arrangement. Hopefully, it may extend to allow other continents as well, but as said, was not mentioned today.

European Commission proposes Green Pass for freedom of travel

What does the pass allow you to do? What does it tell border control about you? And why is 'reciprocity' the new buzzword? Find out here. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

I am an EU citizen and have had two AZ jabs, but I live in London. Any idea if I will be able to access (and use) an EU Covid Passport this year?

 

[alexwalker]

I don't know, @Francis K .

 

[Francis K]

I don't know, @Francis K .

Thank you. Anyone else?

 

[Marc S.]

Thank you. Anyone else?

Nobody knows what will exactly happen during this year.
I can only quote what was posted before by @C clearly

No, no one knows. The authorities are still trying to work out the logistics of documentation, and they are making decisions about travel restrictions in response to the day-to-day status of the pandemic.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I am an EU citizen and have had the second jab, but I live in London. Any idea if I will be able to access (and use)


I am an EU citizen and have had two AZ jabs, but I live in London. Any idea if I will be able to access (and use) an EU Covid Passport this year?

@gayeh

I’m also an EU citizen, living over the pond, but I guess London and North America are kind of the same thing now, at least as far as the EU is concerned.

From what I understand, one can “return home,“ and then you can enter the EU. But as long as you’re a resident of a non-EU country, you’re subject to whatever restrictions are for the non EU international community (or England) as far as tourism is concerned.

Another words, from my understanding, pandemic restrictions are based on residency, not passports at this time.

I’m guessing that nonresident travel information will be well publicized as soon as it becomes available. It’ll be big news, and won’t remain hidden in a bureaucratic document.

I would expect that your consulate would be among the first to know.

 

[Marbe2]

The IATA is developing a platform which will be able to incorporate the data from other systems to make the process smoother. I believe that Amercan, Delta and United are already on board and preparing for passengers to use this system.

As previously mentioned, private sector will drive international
travel. From BloombergNews

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Kathor1]

I may be a minority of one in this thread but I trust private companies even less when it comes to sharing my private health data or in fact any of my private data than I trust EU-lead initiatives where I know that there are some EU governments/countries involved, and having a say, where the protection of private data is a very high priority. Which is also a reason why this European Digital Green Certificate thing will take so long to be developed and implemented. Prime target is travel within the EU/Schengen area for those who live there. It's not about travelling into this area from countries not belonging to the club.

 

[Marc S.]

As previously mentioned, private sector will drive international
travel.

Maybe it a good idea to keep this thread focused on factual information about the EU vaccination passport ? And it's consequently better to post your link in a separate thread about a USA vaccination passport (I know this has been attempted before, but maybe it is worth another try and our American forum friends can make an effort to keep that thread civilized )

Whether the private sector should be the driving force in this matter is a political opinion and up for political discussion. No room for that on this forum, but I am happy that in my part of the world decision making about vaccination passports is done by the EU and goverments. Anyway the White House (or the American private sector) has nothing to say about how this matter is dealt with in Europe, so your link is of no relevance for this thread.

 

[Kathor1]

I think that there may be some ambiguity about what in particular Spanish ministers or government spokespeople mean when they speak to their domestic press about opening Spain for "international" travel. I don't think that it refers currently to global worldwide travel for tourism. I think it refers to travel from other EU+ countries and from the UK which is one of their major markets for incoming tourism during the summer in particular. That's their priority for the time being.

 

[Marbe2]

I may be a minority of one in this thread but I trust private companies even less when it comes to sharing my private health data or in fact any of my private data than I trust EU-lead initiatives where I know that there are some EU governments/countries involved, and having a say, where the protection of private data is a very high priority. Which is also a reason why this European Digital Green Certificate thing will take so long to be developed and implemented. Prime target is travel within the EU/Schengen area for those who live there and not travel into this area.

Katharina, I am not thrilled either about sharing health information on the internet.
However, it is my understanding that the IATA is using Blockchain Technology.

Blockchain technology​

The deployment of new and emerging technologies, such as digital health passports, however, brings with it a number of challenges, and protecting customer’s data is one of them. What is important to note about the Travel Pass solution is that it uses decentralised blockchain technology, ensuring there is no central database that could be hacked to access personal information. “This is the beauty of the technology we’re using; it puts the passenger in complete control of their data. There’s no central database and nobody can hack it. The passenger owns their data and they share it with the airline. It’s so powerful and it’s probably one of the first ever examples of blockchain technology being implemented in a way that benefits people,” Hayden says.

How IATA Travel Pass is using blockchain technology to keep passengers in control of their data

FTE speaks to IATA's Alan Murray Hayden to find out more about the technology behind the new IATA Travel Pass and how it can help restart global aviation.

www.futuretravelexperience.com

 

[Tincatinker]

Members might wish to note that various “passport” schemes advocated by IATA and others are aimed at reducing their problems, not yours.

 

[Kathor1]

technology

Some of the EU countries have already been through this whole discussion about how to set up the whole thing without private data being stored centrally when they developed their Covid-19 warning apps last year. Spain was among them, I think. These apps were developed for their relevant national frameworks but they were supposed to be able to work in the other EU countries eventually. However, as far as I can tell that never happened, ie the gateways were never built. I installed one such app for my region, after careful consideration, and I have family and friends who did the same in other EU countries.

The EU's Green Digital Certificates will follow the same principle, as far as I can tell, except that this time they want to build something that will work everywhere in EU+ from the start.

 

[Marbe2]

Members might wish to note that various “passport” schemes advocated by IATA and others are aimed at reducing their problems, not yours.

It is clear @Tincatinker what IATA’s motivation is ....just like most businesses.

Do we not provide personal info -such as passport numbers, home addresses, telephone numbers, Global security numbers before flying already?

It is not possible that it could be a mutually helpful solution? We do owe the pfizer and moderna vaccines to private enterprise with subsidization from governments. After quality control by various governments and CDC most of us are grateful, as I am sure you are, for private enterprise providing a solution.

Yes, an IATA solution will help their bottom line, but I believe many nations will also examine the system carefully. Certainly the EU will.

 

[Kathor1]

In any case, don't get your knickers in a twist about all this. Two days ago, in a radio interview, Spain's Foreign Minister, Arancha González Laya, explained it yet again, saying that the European vaccination certificate will be ready 'at the latest in June'. "Whoever is not vaccinated will not be banned from mobility, but will have more limitations," explained the minister in an interview on Onda Cero. People who do not have the certificate, Laya has detailed, will be able to travel, but will be subject to more controls/restrictions than those who have the green pass.

And: Firstly, the minister highlighted the work of the Spanish government in making the European certificate a reality, which will guarantee "a safe and orderly return to mobility".

Source: Ondacero.es or any major Spanish newspaper.

 

[Kathor1]

However, as far as I can tell that never happened, ie the gateways were never built.

I have to correct this as it is not true. The gateways were built and numerous EU countries joined it for their nationally developed Covid-19 warning and contact tracing apps, with Spain among these countries.

And I read today about a confirmation by the EU saying that the same companies, namely T-Systems and SAP, have now also been awarded the contract to build similar software for interoperability of the new EU digital green certificates (“vaccination and test passports”).

 

[Kathor1]

Today, Iceland is allowing Americans who have had vaccinations to enter the country without quarantining. One needs a certificate of vaccination!

This comment dates from the 18th of March and I've picked it up just to remind us what a huge difference there can be between reality and what we read in a first excited news article or a blog. The following text was published today, three weeks later, on the schengenvisa website, who, while not an official primary source, are usually better researched and more up to date than many others:

COVID-19 Vaccinated Third-Country Citizens Can Now Enter Iceland​

​

April 8, 2021​

​

The decision was planned to take effect on March 26. Still, it was postponed until April 6, as according to the country’s authorities, more time is needed to permit scope for careful review of the procedures for estimating and accepting documentation. But Iceland will not be a transit point for foreign travellers, the country’s authorities have announced.​

​

Iceland’s flag carrier airline Icelandair has warned all travellers from the United States that they will not be permitted to fly with the airline to other European countries from Iceland, even though the latter is a member of the borderless area of Schengen.​

Nothing is as it was before ...

 

[Marbe2]

This comment dates from the 18th of March and I've picked it up just to remind us what a huge difference there can be between reality and what we read in a first excited news article or a blog. The following text was published today, three weeks later, on the schengenvisa website, who, while not an official primary source, are usually better researched and more up to date than many others:

COVID-19 Vaccinated Third-Country Citizens Can Now Enter Iceland​

​

April 8, 2021​

​

The decision was planned to take effect on March 26. Still, it was postponed until April 6, as according to the country’s authorities, more time is needed to permit scope for careful review of the procedures for estimating and accepting documentation. But Iceland will not be a transit point for foreign travellers, the country’s authorities have announced.​

​

Iceland’s flag carrier airline Icelandair has warned all travellers from the United States that they will not be permitted to fly with the airline to other European countries from Iceland, even though the latter is a member of the borderless area of Schengen.​

Nothing is as it was before ...

The articles I read had no expectation that American Citizens flying to Iceland, could then fly to Europe. So nothing has changed since Iceland opened to vaccinated Americans. But it is good to clarify the situation for those who may not have been following EU restrictions!

Unfortunately the permission for Americans to visit IS shortly preceded an announcement of the eruption of volcanoes. Currently there are tourists being evacuated from parts of Iceland...

New Fissure in Iceland Volcano Prompts Evacuation of Tourists

Scientists re-evaluated the safety of the eruption site after a new fissure began spewing steam and lava a half-mile from the original craters

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[pepi]

I guess there will be no problem for pilgrims if he/she/divers shows the “oldfashioned“ yellow papermade International Certificate Of Vaccination, issued by the WHO, on request.

While the electronic EC vaccination passport will be convenient (for EC residents), Brits, and pilgrims from all other non-EC countries can resort to the long-existing WHO certificate, as @Camineiro pointed out. This certificate is recognized worldwide, it is generally available and issued by the party providing vaccination. Simple as that, no panic necessary.

Buen Camino

 

[Deleted member 86813]

Brits will be legally on a Camino in Spain this summer should they choose to go and meet the reasonable requirements. There will be the usual naysayers on this forum and elsewhere, who believe they should have the casting vote - but...

 

[Kathor1]

This certificate is recognized worldwide, it is generally available and issued by the party providing vaccination. Simple as that,

I think that the WHO yellow passport will be worthless for travelling to Spain. I won't even take mine with me when I get my Covid-19 jab. Plus, there've been news reports recently that faked WHO yellow passports are illegally available for € 125. The digital certificates would be much harder to fake, I guess. This, and the fact that they can be scanned and read automatically are in their favour.

El Pais had yet another article (in English) about the "Digital Green Certificate" that will become available in June at the earliest. The advantage for travellers, according to the Spanish Minister for Health, will be twofold: it will allow citizens of Europe to enter Spain without having to quarantine or take a coronavirus test. IOW, a digital green certificate will save you hassle, time and money when travelling to Spain.

 

[gayeh]

I'm not anticipating anyone to have answer but I'm wondering how I will be able to connect with the Digital Green program certificate after being vaccinated in Canada? I am an Irish/EU citizen but in Canada presently and will have the paper proof. from here I wrote to the EU but have not received response.

 

[Kathor1]

I'm wondering how I will be able to connect with the Digital Green program certificate after being vaccinated in Canada? I am an Irish/EU citizen but in Canada presently and will have the paper proof. from here I wrote to the EU but have not received response.

This Digital Green Certificate project is ambitious and still very vague. The legislation has not yet been finalised. A very recent press release says that a new amendment has been proposed to include a new article on the international dimension of the Digital Green Certificate, clarifying the treatment to be given to certificates issued to Union citizens and their family members [...] vaccinated in [non-EU] countries.

There may well be one day some kind of separate agreements for the mutual recognition of vaccination proof with other countries, between the UK and Spain for example.

In any case, the EU's Digital Green Certificates will never be a precondition for travelling, they've made this abundantly clear, i.e. travelling between countries without these certificates will be allowed.