Checked the “toe issues” threads... this one is not addressed (so far)

[taigirl]

Check out gel toe sleeves. Scholl make them but cheaper from eBay.

 

[taigirl]

Check out gel toe sleeves. Scholl make them but cheaper from eBay.

 

[Former member 91017]

Also check out gel toe sleeves which slip over each toe. Scholl make them but I bought mine cheaply off eBay. Just cut to length.

Thanks for others who might be joining late, I have already cautioned that those sleeves do not work for me (and might not work for others) because they roll and bunch up in the shoe when we are getting anywhere north of a few KMs of walking...

My camino days are usually 25-30k steps per day and the endurance treks run double that. So the gel things -- not so much.

But the wax gauze, bound with a strip of ordinary gauze... I think that (and softer more flexible socks that are not too tight_ may get me through a 30k steps routine. I will know soon: when the weather stops being blustery and raining.
Second half of April will see me in a remote region that requires an 18K round-trip hike for groceries...
Will report back at the end of the 2 weeks.
I'm likely to make the 18K (plus doddering distance in town) 2-3 times in the 12 days, and to have a number of other shorter hikes of 12-16 K.
Should give me an indication.
I will start with the whole package of gauze and socks and my nice wide Altras. And toward the end of the stay I will drop down to just the socks.
If the socks alone work... I will put the gauze in my blister and burn/scrape kit.

 

[Theresa Brandon]

I wonder if the wax gauze helps to eliminate motion induced flex and the subsequent micro trauma around the nail bed. Please keep us posted on how it works out for you.

 

[kelleymac]

I recommend seeing a sports doctor over a podiatrist. There maybe some exercises that will help. -- Also, make sure the shoe doesn't have a seam or ridge hitting those toes repeatedly. Even little taps can damage the nail bed over time. -- I lost my two big toe nails on my first camino (shoes were too small), and those nail beds are now a bit fragile and sensitive. I usually wrap them with leuko tape or a bandaid before walking just to give support.

 

[amyshmn]

Hi there! I’m so glad you posted this issue. I have the same problem after any long walk. Like you my 2nd toes aren’t any longer than the others, yet they are incredibly bruised and painful after hikes. Strangely it’s the tops of the nails down to the nail bed which are painful- even the thought of sliding my feet under a sheet in bed is enough to make me cringe. The skin under the nail gets inflamed and dusky purple and the nail lifts off the toe. The under the nail a blister develops. Because it’s the tops of my toes (and not the tips) I know it’s not from the toes hitting the front of the shoe. I was convinced it was my toe somehow rubbing the fabric of the shoe on top of my toes.

After years of dealing with the issue (moleskin wrap, time off, buying 1/2 size bigger shoe) and no relief, I finally went to a podiatrist. She said IT IS the shoe fabric rubbing my toe. It’s caused by the fabric creasing when I step off the foot, which pulls the shoe fabric down onto the toe. She blamed trail runner with their flexible sole. She recommended shoes which have a “rocker” sole to prevent the flexing.

I haven’t changed to those types of shoes yet because they look so orthodic (yes I am vain). Instead I’ve been trying silicone toe sleeves which mixed results.

It is incredibly frustrating and painful. The last time this happens was in November and five months later the last bit of blister is finally growing out.

 

[Stivandrer]

...came home yesterday after a longish stretch with kinesiotape compressing both my 2nd and 3rd toe on both feet.
This time not even the throbbing feeling of stressed toenails.
After this fruitful discussion, I too now suspect that the stretching of the toe as well and comressed tube of the tape is a contributing factor

(Boots are Ecco Biom Hike Hydromax with square toebox w lots of space. These are now discontinued - I bought the last four pairs of 10½ !
Earlier I had issues with Hanwags that had the liner come down and chafe the upside of my toes)

 

[Deleted member 67338]

So... I generally wear Keen boots, Keen hiking sandals, and Altra Lone Peak trail runners. I never, ever have an issue with the sandals, even with the hard toe-cap.

I do not have an anatomically challenging foot. My toes are all of the usual orientation; the second is not longer than the rest.

My toe-spread is wider than it was before I took up long distance walking... hence Keens and Altras.

But dang it.

After about 10K on any walk, I can feel that I have bruised the nail bed of each second toe, both left and right. I wear my Altras on my treadmill and had no troubles all winter, though I don’t think I went 10K in a single go on the treadmill.

I do not feel the toe hitting the shoes when I am walking, but at the end of the walk... man... feels like I”ve been stuck on each of my second toes with a hammer to the nail bed. I expect that by tomorrow I might see the bruising.

I lock-lace my shoes. I wear excellent socks. I have only endured blisters on the toe on my left foot that suffered a bad break and healed with a 90 deg. inward turn, so now I wrap that one with hiker’s wool.

But the bruising of the nail beds? How can I prevent that if lock-lacing is not helping? Can I wrap that toe? Or will it still end up bruised anyway? (I ask before trying to wrap that in my precious/expensive wool).

Anyone else conquered this issue? I’m tired of having nails pop off.

Wear runners, who needs boots or sandals and that’s coming from a 30 year army infantry veteran. Adidas also have a nice one with rubber strip down the big toe area too.

 

[Deleted member 67338]

Wear runners, who needs boots or sandals and that’s coming from a 30 year army infantry veteran. Adidas also have a nice one with rubber strip down the big toe area too.

 

[Former member 91017]

You saw the part in which I indicated that I wear trail runners?
I can't wear Adidas. They are too narrow at the ball of the foot and too wide at the heel.
I need boots for SJPdP to the Alto de Perdón, and again from Molinaseca to Barabdelo. I needed boots from Albergaria de Venhola to Santiago in 2019 (for muddy and hilly and rocky terrain).
I found that sandals were the best answer to blister prevention and heat when walking the meseta in the height of summer 2018 (heat wave) and in the very hot autumn of Sept 2014. Mine are able to do double duty at hiking sandals and evening footwear (Keen Rose hiking sandals for women if any of the women on the forum are wondering). Capped toe, open instep, they are actually *almost* cute, but also sturdy, with the same hiking sole that Keen boots have.

 

[Former member 91017]

Hi there! I’m so glad you posted this issue. I have the same problem after any long walk. Like you my 2nd toes aren’t any longer than the others, yet they are incredibly bruised and painful after hikes. Strangely it’s the tops of the nails down to the nail bed which are painful- even the thought of sliding my feet under a sheet in bed is enough to make me cringe. The skin under the nail gets inflamed and dusky purple and the nail lifts off the toe. The under the nail a blister develops. Because it’s the tops of my toes (and not the tips) I know it’s not from the toes hitting the front of the shoe. I was convinced it was my toe somehow rubbing the fabric of the shoe on top of my toes.

After years of dealing with the issue (moleskin wrap, time off, buying 1/2 size bigger shoe) and no relief, I finally went to a podiatrist. She said IT IS the shoe fabric rubbing my toe. It’s caused by the fabric creasing when I step off the foot, which pulls the shoe fabric down onto the toe. She blamed trail runner with their flexible sole. She recommended shoes which have a “rocker” sole to prevent the flexing.

I haven’t changed to those types of shoes yet because they look so orthodic (yes I am vain). Instead I’ve been trying silicone toe sleeves which mixed results.

It is incredibly frustrating and painful. The last time this happens was in November and five months later the last bit of blister is finally growing out.

Interesting. I don't get any blistering, just bruising... but yes to the absolute torture of bedsheets!!! In medical circles that level of pain is described as "exquisite" and that about captures it. Fascinatingly, it has never hurt when the nail has finally popped off.

 

[Former member 91017]

100% points for @davebugg! It was the socks!
Today, with a pack that was loaded with 9 cans of cat food and a 2KG bag of cat food for 7.5km of a 15km walk I wore looser socks, same shoes.
No problems! I did forget to wrap my broken baby toes that points in toward my third at 90 degrees and got the usual hotspot as punishment for my forgetfulness, but it's just a warm spot -- won't become a blister.
Am thrilled to have figured this out as I leave on Tuesday for 14 days in the remote bush where getting milk requires a 9km walk to town.

 

[davebugg]

100% points for @davebugg! It was the socks!
Today, with a pack that was loaded with 9 cans of cat food and a 2KG bag of cat food for 7.5km of a 15km walk I wore looser socks, same shoes.
No problems! I did forget to wrap my broken baby toes that points in toward my third at 90 degrees and got the usual hotspot as punishment for my forgetfulness, but it's just a warm spot -- won't become a blister.
Am thrilled to have figured this out as I leave on Tuesday for 14 days in the remote bush where getting milk requires a 9km walk to town.

Faye, I am so happy to hear that a solution was found to your issue. Keep those baby toes in line

 

[Camino Chrissy]

113 posts later, and finally all seems going well for Faye's toes!

 

[Former member 91017]

113 posts later, and finally all seems going well for Faye's toes!

My first opportunity (weather/time etc) to test Dave's advice... with a weighted pack even!

 

[JabbaPapa]

It was the socks!

Told you ...

Glad that the change in socks didn't require larger shoe size.

I'm so glad you've worked it out though

 

[Former member 91017]

Told you ...

Glad that the change in socks didn't require larger shoe size.

I'm so glad you've worked it out though

Yeah... it was something about the Darn Toughs I was wearing without thinking that maybe one model ws different from another in any way that mattered in particular. But these winter socks feel rather alike boiled shetland wool and were very difficult to get on...
For my walk yesterday I was wearing the same brand but a much more relaxed weave...
I have what seem to be quite small feet for an adult: I can always get my shoes and boots on sale because everyone else buys 7-8-9 and I'm a 6.5; sometimes I am even lucky enough to get shoes that are a 6 in the children's department (and then I pay no tax on them).
On my first camino I was wearing size 7 Keen Durand boots (IIRC) and I ended up with a lot of problems related to them being just that much too big (even in extreme heat when I'd been told my feet would swell).
I dunno what to say about the swelling issue. Like my grandmother I do not retain salt very well; I cannot hydrate on just water (have to have sugars and fats and electrolytes so I generally drink milk); I don't sweat much at all (and can overheat)... but my base body temperature is about a degree lower than average...
Funny stuff.
Anyway, the feets are happy today and hoping for another jaunt outside after I have finished uploading 24 Zoom lectures to my department server.... bleh.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Runners toenails are usually helped by all the info above: triple check shoes are neither too lose or too tight, sometimes silicone toe sleeves, gradual distance increase. Some find more cushioned socks help but that could lead to needing increased shoe size. I only had problems with runners toenails during marathons from the seam in my sock—it hit right over the areas bruising. I switched to seamless socks and the problem disappeared. Good luck!

 

[JabbaPapa]

For my walk yesterday I was wearing the same brand but a much more relaxed weave...
I have what seem to be quite small feet for an adult: I can always get my shoes and boots on sale because everyone else buys 7-8-9 and I'm a 6.5; sometimes I am even lucky enough to get shoes that are a 6 in the children's department (and then I pay no tax on them).
On my first camino I was wearing size 7 Keen Durand boots (IIRC) and I ended up with a lot of problems related to them being just that much too big (even in extreme heat when I'd been told my feet would swell).
I dunno what to say about the swelling issue. Like my grandmother I do not retain salt very well; I cannot hydrate on just water (have to have sugars and fats and electrolytes so I generally drink milk); I don't sweat much at all (and can overheat)... but my base body temperature is about a degree lower than average...
Funny stuff.

Oh !! feet that small are unlikely to swell that much, particularly with your lower body temp.

(for comparison to your own shoes, I'm in UK size 14½ French Army boots, US size 15 or 15½/16)

So this is definitely a socks matter, not shoes. And the typical advice to get shoes larger than your normal size, you should probably just forget about moving forward. Just get those that work on your prep/training hikes, and stick with them.

Milk is a good idea if you can do it, for multiple reasons

You might still be able to manage Darn Toughs -- but larger ones than your normal socks size.

But I still think -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Stick with those soft and flexible.

 

[Former member 91017]

Milk is a good idea if you can do it, for multiple reasons

I'm about a litre per day in normal circumstances. I have incredible bone health (and teeth).

I tried to set that aside for camino, and was very very surprised out on the first camino to find that 3.5 litres of water between Pamplona and Puenta La Reina did not keep me hydrated! I had a swollen tongue and my whole esophagus felt like sandpaper when we arrived at the hotel at the outskirts of town. I was over-heated and clammy... and all my walking companions were fine; most had consumed far less water than I in the same journey.

I forget who suggested that maybe I needed electrolytes in my water, but I wasn't keen on the aspartame in those (I do carry a packet of tabs just in case I can't find milk now), so I hit a shop in Puenta and bought 2 litres of the UHT shelf-stable stuff for the next day's walk.

Fellow walkers generally thought I was *bonkers* but it worked a charm. Full fat if I can get it...

And now that we have the same milk available at home, it's generally what I take on a hike (I also fill my water bladder, but it's always a mix of a wee bit of citrus juice and water).

Dunno if this information could help other walkers, but it might.

 

[chinacat]

I'm about a litre per day in normal circumstances. I have incredible bone health (and teeth).

I tried to set that aside for camino, and was very very surprised out on the first camino to find that 3.5 litres of water between Pamplona and Puenta La Reina did not keep me hydrated! I had a swollen tongue and my whole esophagus felt like sandpaper when we arrived at the hotel at the outskirts of town. I was over-heated and clammy... and all my walking companions were fine; most had consumed far less water than I in the same journey.

I forget who suggested that maybe I needed electrolytes in my water, but I wasn't keen on the aspartame in those (I do carry a packet of tabs just in case I can't find milk now), so I hit a shop in Puenta and bought 2 litres of the UHT shelf-stable stuff for the next day's walk.

Fellow walkers generally thought I was *bonkers* but it worked a charm. Full fat if I can get it...

And now that we have the same milk available at home, it's generally what I take on a hike (I also fill my water bladder, but it's always a mix of a wee bit of citrus juice and water).

Dunno if this information could help other walkers, but it might.

In the UK, a Michael Mosley programme, on the BBC, proved that dairy milk was a more effective rehydrator than water.

 

[Former member 91017]

In the UK, a Michael Mosley programme, on the BBC, proved that dairy milk was a more effective rehydrator than water.

Oh... yeah... I recall having heard something about that.

 

[CarolineMathieson]

Never had much trouble with my feet until the last three years when I started walking the Portuguese and Ingles caminos. Now I always get problems with the right little toe. I looks like an abscess after a day or two's walking but isn't. I went to a podiatrist recently and she commented that my right big toe does not have enough flexibility and so what is happening is that I am walking on the inside of the foot and the little toe is hitting the roof of my footwear and that is what is causing causing the blister. I even get it when wearing sandals which never happened before. I do have arthritis in my toes but that doesn't seem to cause any problems. I thought it was my new boots that were the problem but apparently not.

 

[barnettstakeagiantstep]

So... I generally wear Keen boots, Keen hiking sandals, and Altra Lone Peak trail runners. I never, ever have an issue with the sandals, even with the hard toe-cap.

I do not have an anatomically challenging foot. My toes are all of the usual orientation; the second is not longer than the rest.

My toe-spread is wider than it was before I took up long distance walking... hence Keens and Altras.

But dang it.

After about 10K on any walk, I can feel that I have bruised the nail bed of each second toe, both left and right. I wear my Altras on my treadmill and had no troubles all winter, though I don’t think I went 10K in a single go on the treadmill.

I do not feel the toe hitting the shoes when I am walking, but at the end of the walk... man... feels like I”ve been stuck on each of my second toes with a hammer to the nail bed. I expect that by tomorrow I might see the bruising.

I lock-lace my shoes. I wear excellent socks. I have only endured blisters on the toe on my left foot that suffered a bad break and healed with a 90 deg. inward turn, so now I wrap that one with hiker’s wool.

But the bruising of the nail beds? How can I prevent that if lock-lacing is not helping? Can I wrap that toe? Or will it still end up bruised anyway? (I ask before trying to wrap that in my precious/expensive wool).

Anyone else conquered this issue? I’m tired of having nails pop off.

As I have not read every reply, so sorry to repeat. I use those sponge toe tubes, they do wear-out or flatten, but I love them. They come in sizes and you can cut the length to suit.. my friend uses a variety that has gel inside.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

As I have not read every reply, so sorry to repeat. I use those sponge toe tubes, they do wear-out or flatten, but I love them. They come in sizes and you can cut the length to suit.. my friend uses a variety that has gel inside.

Someone earlier on the thread called them toe condoms...I thought it quite cute.

 

[David Tallan]

Someone earlier on the thread called them toe condoms...I thought it quite cute.

They are only called toe condoms if they come from the town of Condom in France (on the Le Puy route). Otherwise, they are toe prophylactics.

 

[Former member 91017]

Final meaningful update from OP here.

I’ve been sheltering in the remote woods while my city home has had contractors gutting and rebuilding the staircase. I have a very simple, unfinished cabin that is 9km from the nearest town, and I don’t know how to drive. So I walk with my empty Osprey Lumina 40 into town and fill it with groceries... and walk back with a full pack. Sometimes I go for recreational walks that range from 8-16k on/near the lake that is behind my property. On the glorious day we had Saturday, I did a 27K round-trip hike for the sake of a “meat ground on site” burger on another nearby lake.

Shoes: size 6.5 Altra Lone Peak 4.5
Socks: Smartwool, small (I ditched the Darn Toughs for this experiment) — that small size in my model goes up to size 7 women’s.

Wool wrap on my deformed baby toe that healed wrong after being broken.
Compeed stick applied to heels to prevent blisters (Just in case on the longest walks and the full pack walks).

Results: even with a full pack that at its heaviest was about 50% over optimal, and even with fairly significant elevation gains and losses, those second toes have given me absolutely *zero grief*.

So my advice... recapping the less than obvious from @JabbaPapa and @davebugg is: do not underestimate the socks. Make sure they are roomy enough to have comfy give (but not to slouch or wrinkle in the shoe or boot, of course). Your shoes and pack and all that might well be perfectly suited, as mine appear to be. The socks really can be the weakest link!

Total km over last week: 22; 22; 29; 8; 6; 12 = 99.
Pack weight ranged from 2.5 pounds (water, first aid/allergy crap and the pack itself) to 24 pounds (groceries + base).

Buen Camino everyone!!

 

[Stivandrer]

Final meaningful update from OP here.

I’ve been sheltering in the remote woods while my city home has had contractors gutting and rebuilding the staircase. I have a very simple, unfinished cabin that is 9km from the nearest town, and I don’t know how to drive. So I walk with my empty Osprey Lumina 40 into town and fill it with groceries... and walk back with a full pack. Sometimes I go for recreational walks that range from 8-16k on/near the lake that is behind my property. On the glorious day we had Saturday, I did a 27K round-trip hike for the sake of a “meat ground on site” burger on another nearby lake.

Shoes: size 6.5 Altra Lone Peak 4.5
Socks: Smartwool, small (I ditched the Darn Toughs for this experiment) — that small size in my model goes up to size 7 women’s.

Wool wrap on my deformed baby toe that healed wrong after being broken.
Compeed stick applied to heels to prevent blisters (Just in case on the longest walks and the full pack walks).

Results: even with a full pack that at its heaviest was about 50% over optimal, and even with fairly significant elevation gains and losses, those second toes have given me absolutely *zero grief*.

So my advice... recapping the less than obvious from @JabbaPapa and @davebugg is: do not underestimate the socks. Make sure they are roomy enough to have comfy give (but not to slouch or wrinkle in the shoe or boot, of course). Your shoes and pack and all that might well be perfectly suited, as mine appear to be. The socks really can be the weakest link!

Total km over last week: 22; 22; 29; 8; 6; 12 = 99.
Pack weight ranged from 2.5 pounds (water, first aid/allergy crap and the pack itself) to 24 pounds (groceries + base).

Buen Camino everyone!!

..there you go !!
Happy Trails...

 

[Moorwalker]

So... I generally wear Keen boots, Keen hiking sandals, and Altra Lone Peak trail runners. I never, ever have an issue with the sandals, even with the hard toe-cap.

I do not have an anatomically challenging foot. My toes are all of the usual orientation; the second is not longer than the rest.

My toe-spread is wider than it was before I took up long distance walking... hence Keens and Altras.

But dang it.

After about 10K on any walk, I can feel that I have bruised the nail bed of each second toe, both left and right. I wear my Altras on my treadmill and had no troubles all winter, though I don’t think I went 10K in a single go on the treadmill.

I do not feel the toe hitting the shoes when I am walking, but at the end of the walk... man... feels like I”ve been stuck on each of my second toes with a hammer to the nail bed. I expect that by tomorrow I might see the bruising.

I lock-lace my shoes. I wear excellent socks. I have only endured blisters on the toe on my left foot that suffered a bad break and healed with a 90 deg. inward turn, so now I wrap that one with hiker’s wool.

But the bruising of the nail beds? How can I prevent that if lock-lacing is not helping? Can I wrap that toe? Or will it still end up bruised anyway? (I ask before trying to wrap that in my precious/expensive wool).

Anyone else conquered this issue? I’m tired of having nails pop off.

Walking on a treadmill is a very different movement than walking on the ground.

Is your second toe slightly longer than the big toe by any chance? Toenail bruising is nearly always due to the toe hitting the front of the shoe. Another common one is that the toe box is shallow and the top of your toe contacts the shoe.

 

[Former member 91017]

Walking on a treadmill is a very different movement than walking on the ground.

Is your second toe slightly longer than the big toe by any chance? Toenail bruising is nearly always due to the toe hitting the front of the shoe. Another common one is that the toe box is shallow and the top of your toe contacts the shoe.

I’m confused. You actually quoted the section of the original post in which I indicate that I do not have a longer second toe.

I’m aware that walking on a treadmill is different from walking on ground. My

At any rate if you skip to the end you will see that *socks* were my foe! I too-rigid weave in a slightly too-small sock...

The problem has been resolved, thanks to 2 attentive members who directed me to what was the least obvious (to me) link in the chain.

And now, because I no longer suffer, I am heading out on a quick 13K jaunt to meet my spouse for a burger.

 

[Moorwalker]

I’m confused. You actually quoted the section of the original post in which I indicate that I do not have a longer second toe.

I’m aware that walking on a treadmill is different from walking on ground. My

At any rate if you skip to the end you will see that *socks* were my foe! I too-rigid weave in a slightly too-small sock...

The problem has been resolved, thanks to 2 attentive members who directed me to what was the least obvious (to me) link in the chain.

And now, because I no longer suffer, I am heading out on a quick 13K jaunt to meet my spouse for a burger.

Sorry, I didn't edit the quote.

It's amazing how a little thing can have such a dramatic effect isn't it?

 

[debbijstevenson]

So... I generally wear Keen boots, Keen hiking sandals, and Altra Lone Peak trail runners. I never, ever have an issue with the sandals, even with the hard toe-cap.

I do not have an anatomically challenging foot. My toes are all of the usual orientation; the second is not longer than the rest.

My toe-spread is wider than it was before I took up long distance walking... hence Keens and Altras.

But dang it.

After about 10K on any walk, I can feel that I have bruised the nail bed of each second toe, both left and right. I wear my Altras on my treadmill and had no troubles all winter, though I don’t think I went 10K in a single go on the treadmill.

I do not feel the toe hitting the shoes when I am walking, but at the end of the walk... man... feels like I”ve been stuck on each of my second toes with a hammer to the nail bed. I expect that by tomorrow I might see the bruising.

I lock-lace my shoes. I wear excellent socks. I have only endured blisters on the toe on my left foot that suffered a bad break and healed with a 90 deg. inward turn, so now I wrap that one with hiker’s wool.

But the bruising of the nail beds? How can I prevent that if lock-lacing is not helping? Can I wrap that toe? Or will it still end up bruised anyway? (I ask before trying to wrap that in my precious/expensive wool).

Anyone else conquered this issue? I’m tired of having nails pop off.

I have had the same problem for ages. In the end (after spending more on socks than my tent) what worked for me was Darn Tough socks 2 continental sizes bigger than my normal size and buying trail runners 2 continental sizes bigger than normal. I know everything about buying 1 size bigger shoes, feet spreading but immediately i went another size bigger, no problems, i do them up firmly they don't slip or feel weird. It is however psychologically damaging as a lady, buying enormous shoes and having to have men's ones good luck

 

[Camino Chrissy]

It is however psychologically damaging as a lady, buying enormous shoes and having to have men's ones good luck