Cell phone manners at night

[Deleted member 59555]

I am interested to know your thoughts on using a cell phone in a dorm at night and how late is late.

 

[LGLG]

If in doubt, don't.

 

[Dorpie]

Even a cell phone with the brightness turned way down can be a distraction. My rule of thumb would be no calls or anything else that makes noise in the dorm room and screen off at lights out.

 

[SabsP]

Be considerate.Set it on quiet funtion.
Imho always leave the dormroom and go to hall , kitchen or outside.
After 10 pm ( most albergues have this as a curfew) certainly put it on silent.
I also noticed that the different apps can have different notification sounds.
It drives me mental.

 

[ShaunKevin]

Even a cell phone with the brightness turned way down can be a distraction. My rule of thumb would be no calls or anything else that makes noise in the dorm room and screen off at lights out.

Absolutely ! It’s the height of rudeness. And don’t start me on plastic bags. They should be banned full stop. Single use plastics are choking the planet and the amount of single use plastic waste on the CF is disgusting.

 

[Mettchen]

To be honest - I dont mind people having quiet conversations with other pilgrims or on their phone (but I am not a light sleeper) or who text in bed or play a game or browse the internet to unwind ...but please dont play music (without headphones) when people are sleeping.

 

[LGLG]

To be honest - I dont mind people having quiet conversations with other pilgrims or on their phone (but I am not a light sleeper) or who text in bed or play a game or browse the internet to unwind ...but please dont play music (without headphones) when people are sleeping.[/Q

A light sleeper, however, despite earplugs and mask, unfortunately will still get woken up and find it difficult to get back to sleep - I know that for a fact.

 

[Anamya]

I think it is EXTREMELLY rude anyone thinking it is ok to make any noise/light where there are other people around trying to sleep. Be it phone, plastic bag, lamp, chatting... It's such lack of empathy!

 

[SabsP]

I think it is EXTREMELLY rude anyone thinking it is ok to make any noise/light where there are other people around trying to sleep. Be it phone, plastic bag, lamp, chatting... It's such lack of empathy!

Indeed it all comes down to empathy.Seems to be a rare emotion/ charactertrait these days.
Yesterday , when at a restaurant serving wonderful food, I observed two people constantly tapping their phones.Do not think they tasted the food at all or talked more than ten minutes during those two hours.
And yes it was rude towards the chef and other customers ( open bar ).
Same behaviour on the Camino.
Seems that for some people a day without blogging,Instagram and all the likes is a day not fully lived.
And do not get me started about those selfiesticks...Two years ago someone in Santiago almost poked my eye out with such a thing....

 

[ShaunKevin]

Indeed it all comes down to empathy.Seems to be a rare emotion/ charactertrait these days.
Yesterday , when at a restaurant serving wonderful food, I observed two people constantly tapping their phones.Do not think they tasted the food at all or talked more than ten minutes during those two hours.
And yes it was rude towards the chef and other customers ( open bar ).
Same behaviour on the Camino.
Seems that for some people a day without blogging,Instagram and all the likes is a day not fully lived.
And do not get me started about those selfiesticks...Two years ago someone in Santiago almost poked my eye out with such a thing....

If it’s not on Instagram it didn’t happen!

I had no cell phone coverage at all on the Camino. Was heaven.

 

[SabsP]

If it’s not on Instagram it didn’t happen!

I had no cell phone coverage at all on the Camino. Was heaven.

Don't get me wrong.I do use some apps too but will post after the activity.
Especially FB is nice for friends and workmates who are interested in where you are walking.

 

[Antonius Vaessen]

I never will call in a dormroom or in the company of other people not only because it is distraction for myself but most of the time it annoys me when people make phone calls within hearing distances. If a cell phone is used for other purposes I don't mind that if the sound and the light does not disturb others.

 

[jungleboy]

I think it is EXTREMELLY rude anyone thinking it is ok to make any noise/light where there are other people around trying to sleep. Be it phone, plastic bag, lamp, chatting... It's such lack of empathy!

I certainly try to be as respectful as possible in albergues (e.g. I always use headphones, never make phone calls, put my phone on a low-light setting at night etc), but the above seems quite over the top to me. What if you're in a 20-person dorm and one pilgrim is trying to sleep at 8pm? Does that mean the other 19 people have to switch the lights off, not use their phones and not talk for the rest of the night?

 

[ShaunKevin]

Yes it does

 

[Anamya]

Does that mean the other 19 people have to switch the lights off, not use their phones and not talk for the rest of the night?

I think so. They can do all those things in the common area. I always think "what if the person trying to sleep at 8pm was my mother, exhauted from the walk?".

Of course there is a limit to how silent/dark it can be (it's great when people make the effort to use devices respectfully, as you well pointed), but everyone should try to collaborate as much as they can. We are all on the camino.

 

[Stroller]

Yes it is rude, I don't wan't to hear the trivia of a strangers day nor here their family drivel. One of the banes of modern life is constant noise and the sad need to be constantly in contact. A form of paranoia?

 

[ShaunKevin]

Yes it is rude, I don't wan't to hear the trivia of a strangers day nor here their family drivel. One of the banes of modern life is constant noise and the sad need to be constantly in contact. A form of paranoia?

Goodness you’re my hero.

 

[SYates]

... What if you're in a 20-person dorm and one pilgrim is trying to sleep at 8pm? Does that mean the other 19 people have to switch the lights off, not use their phones and not talk for the rest of the night?

That is what the common area is for ;-) Dormitory comes from the Latin word dormire=to sleep ;-)

Buen Camino, SY

 

[ShaunKevin]

They certainly did not get my point......

 

[Glamgrrl]

Sometimes, depending on time zone differences and wi-if availability, it’s the only chance for people to connect with loved ones. That said, turning texting keystroke to silence is common courtesy. The light is no different than opening and closing he door to go to the toilet. I never found it bothersome and most people were amazingly polite about packing outside the room. Tolerance and understanding go a long way on both sides. There was on evening when a lady was laying a game on her phone and the Ken pad was click click clicking. I put my earplugs in. We talked the next day about something else and she said, I did t hear anything, I had my earplugs I ...this explaining why she didn’t hear the clicking”. The only moment when there could have been a mindfulness, but she was so nice and helpful about another manner, I’m glad I just tolerated and put earplugs in.

 

[ShaunKevin]

She should not have been on her phone. Period.

 

[Wendy Werneth]

I'm confused by all these "beds are for sleeping and sex" comments. Would you really prefer someone having sex in the dorm over someone sending a text message??

Surely not. There are varying beliefs/habits regarding when and where technology use is appropriate, and that's fine. But the truth is that a mobile phone with the sound turned off and the screen dimmed is very unobtrusive.

I'm quite surprised by the comments saying that everyone else in the dorm should switch the lights off, not use their phones and not talk for the rest of the night if just one person is trying to sleep, even outside normal sleeping hours.

I often take a nap in the afternoon when I finish my walk. And yes, it's because I'm exhausted, but even so, I certainly don't expect everyone else to tiptoe around me because I decided to sleep at 3pm.

 

[lt56ny]

It’s so simple when the lights go off so does your phone. I also think as soon as you get in the Albergue It should go on silent there are programs to want to rest. And others like myself who just don’t need to hear electronics.

 

[Carol Larson]

I am interested to know your thoughts on using a cell phone in a dorm at night and how late is late.

After a long day of walking, the last thing I wanted to hear was a conversation going on when most pilgrims have settled for the night. One night I had to tell the offender to end the d@*n call.

 

[KJFSophie]

I am interested to know your thoughts on using a cell phone in a dorm at night and how late is late.

Sorry any 'late' is 'too late' . Dorms are for sleeping, if you choose not to sleep, leave the room. There is little that is more annoying than someone talking, or bells, whistles, tweets going off at night. Please keep in mind too, that some may have had an extremely difficult day or aren't feeling well and choose/need to turn in early or nap. Be considerate. Most alburgues have someplace to sit outside of the sleeping area. I thank you for raising the issue...it's important to review camino etiquette.

 

[Rosemaryk1]

I certainly try to be as respectful as possible in albergues (e.g. I always use headphones, never make phone calls, put my phone on a low-light setting at night etc), but the above seems quite over the top to me. What if you're in a 20-person dorm and one pilgrim is trying to sleep at 8pm? Does that mean the other 19 people have to switch the lights off, not use their phones and not talk for the rest of the night?

Absolutely! Enjoy the common area or go outside. But, if outside respect the people out there as well. Be reasonable in your tone of voice.

 

[natefaith]

A number of comments have been deleted as the rabbit trail ran away and became inappropriate. Please remember we have a wide variety of readers and sensibilities on this Forum and keep your comments clean.

 

[SabsP]

A number of comments have been deleted as the rabbit trail became inappropriate. Please remember we have a wide variety of readers and sensibilities on this Forum and keep your comments clean.

So sorry if I got carried away.Apologies.

 

[natefaith]

No worries @SabineP! It was the whole package and not any individual post .

 

[fraluchi]

[...] Tolerance and understanding go a long way on both sides.[..].

One side you, the other side x pilgrims. One way or the other, you'll be out of tolerance balance.

 

[WanderingBrian]

in 1000 AD I wonder if the bulletin scrolls were full of the same questions?

1. is it rude to read your scrolls by candlelight when others are sleeping?

2. is it rude to not dim your candles all the way to the lowest wick level?

3. is it rude to crumple palm leaf bags in the evening?

 

[Deleted member 59555]

I'm confused by all these "beds are for sleeping and sex" comments. Would you really prefer someone having sex in the dorm over someone sending a text message??

Surely not. There are varying beliefs/habits regarding when and where technology use is appropriate, and that's fine. But the truth is that a mobile phone with the sound turned off and the screen dimmed is very unobtrusive.

I'm quite surprised by the comments saying that everyone else in the dorm should switch the lights off, not use their phones and not talk for the rest of the night if just one person is trying to sleep, even outside normal sleeping hours.

I often take a nap in the afternoon when I finish my walk. And yes, it's because I'm exhausted, but even so, I certainly don't expect everyone else to tiptoe around me because I decided to sleep at 3pm.

Do you really mean that first sentence literally .ha ha ha ..

 

[Deleted member 59555]

Thank you for all your comments.
I posted this thread based on an actual experience. While I can,t give all the details I will say that we were a group and when I raised the matter the next day with the group I was made to look like a grumpy old man. Before I drop the subject I will give you one more fact .The time the call was made. It was 2.15 AM.

 

[tomnorth]

Thank you for all your comments.
I posted this thread based on an actual experience. While I can,t give all the details I will say that we were a group and when I raised the matter the next day with the group I was made to look like a grumpy old man. Before I drop the subject I will give you one more fact .The time the call was made. It was 2.15 AM.

That is ridiculous! 2:15 in the morning! Phone conversations should be taken to the common area and conducted quietly. For god’s sake don’t use the speakerphone.

 

[David Tallan]

Personally, I try and avoid making inflexible, absolute rules where people are involved. I prefer and judge each situation on its own merits looking for the kindest possible tack to take.

One of the lessons I learned on the Camino was not to be so judgemental. This is just one of the ways I try and apply it. But to those of you who like to make rules and stick to them - I'm not judging you!

 

[Deleted member 59555]

Personally, I try and avoid making inflexible, absolute rules where people are involved. I prefer and judge each situation on its own merits looking for the kindest possible tack to take.

One of the lessons I learned on the Camino was not to be so judgemental. This is just one of the ways I try and apply it. But to those of you who like to make rules and stick to them - I'm not judging you!

That is fine David have you read my latest post on this matter. you will find that the call was made at 2.15 AM one meter away from me. for me it was had under those circumstances to find the kindest possible tack..

 

[C clearly]

That is fine David have you read my latest post on this matter. you will find that the call was made at 2.15 AM one meter away from me. for me it was had under those circumstances to find the kindest possible tack.

It seems to me that you had a valid complaint. I would have been annoyed too. It also seems to me that @David Tallan makes a valid point about the difficulty of inflexible rules. We can probably agree on that phone calls at 2:15 a.m. within 1.01 m of other people are not generally acceptable. However we would need a lot of rules to cover every possible situation, unless we make extremely restrictive ones.

 

[Diane Kinney]

I find it a little disheartening reading these comments. I remember my Camino being more understanding and compassionate. I have gone twice without my husband (not his thing). And we have a six hour time difference. So I spoke with him daily to let him know I was OK, that I missed him and to share a wonderful experience. I did use common rooms not the dorm, but in reading some of the comments above, apparently that’s disturbing for some.
I do not rattle plastic bags, leave at the crack of dawn, come home loudly after a little bit too much vino, use my cell screen at night unless I am using my lamp (on low) to make my way to the toilet.
Just wish we could all be more understanding.

 

[VNwalking]

the above seems quite over the top to me. What if you're in a 20-person dorm and one pilgrim is trying to sleep at 8pm? Does that mean the other 19 people have to switch the lights off, not use their phones and not talk for the rest of the night?

That is what the common area is for ;-) Dormitory comes from the Latin word dormire=to sleep ;-)

Exactly, on both counts.

. I did use common rooms not the dorm, but in reading some of the comments above, apparently that’s disturbing for some.

Maybe you misunderstand, Diane? Your way is the thoughtful way.

 

[Deleted member 59555]

I find it a little disheartening reading these comments. I remember my Camino being more understanding and compassionate. I have gone twice without my husband (not his thing). And we have a six hour time difference. So I spoke with him daily to let him know I was OK, that I missed him and to share a wonderful experience. I did use common rooms not the dorm, but in reading some of the comments above, apparently that’s disturbing for some.
I do not rattle plastic bags, leave at the crack of dawn, come home loudly after a little bit too much vino, use my cell screen at night unless I am using my lamp (on low) to make my way to the toilet.
Just wish we could all be more understanding.

You have been totaly understanding. Like you my partner was on the other side of the world at 8pm in spain it was 6am at home so I had to wait till 8pm to ring her and always like you I used the common room to make the call.
I did not want to stir up a hornets nest in placing my first post but I think it has been good to air this issue.

 

[Northern Laurie]

Some of the albergues I stayed in did not have common rooms, and sometimes I was in the top bunk of an extremely wobbly bunk bed.

There was a 9 hour time difference between home and Spain, and I desperately wanted to check in with my spouse, so we would have text conversations in the evenings. I had read about people’s complaints before leaving, so turned off the sound, turned down the lights and did everything I could to keep it dim. And never when side by side another person.

I struggled sometimes with other pilgrims foibles. One couple insisted on maintaining a Spanish eating and sleeping schedule as loudly as possible. They were laughing and talking loudly until 11pm, for 3 nights in a row. Another group If early risers did the headlamp dance and plastic bag cancan 2 hours before sunrise. One night I volunteered to take the snorers bed because I am afraid I might be loud... only to realize that sleeping right beside the washroom is not a good place. Another time someone got some sort of gastrointestinal thing- disruptive for the rest of us but I was SO thankful I didn’t have that problem. None of these were funny at the time, and I was awfully grumpy those days, but I am not unhappy about it now.

I appreciate it when people gently let me know if something I am doing disturbs them. It is usually not intentional.

Manners are culturally relative . There are some funny threads about going barefoot inside an albergue! Not something I would have ever have thought of before

 

[ShaunKevin]

Personally, I try and avoid making inflexible, absolute rules where people are involved. I prefer and judge each situation on its own merits looking for the kindest possible tack to take.

One of the lessons I learned on the Camino was not to be so judgemental. This is just one of the ways I try and apply it. But to those of you who like to make rules and stick to them - I'm not judging you!

Rules ensure order. We don’t want Gilead, sure. But rules are required to ensure some sense of civility. No phones in dorms is one such rule worth consideration.

 

[Dorpie]

I think this thread illustrates that almost every one of us, apart from the 2.15 am caller, are well meaning but sometimes run up against others who have different ideas about where the boundaries of reasonable behaviour lie. Living communally is for most of us a change from the norm and it's hard to break with the idea that the way we do things are the way they should be done. It makes you wonder how people living on submarines for weeks at a time at close quarters don't all kill eachother.

The solution? Albergue managers could set down a list of rules but then that gives them one more job in an already busy day of enforcing them. We could, like @David Tallan be more tolerant, a lesson I could certainly do better with. Or we could respectfully and quietly bring up our issue and hope that this changes our fellow pilgrim's behaviour. If none of these work, be happy that you're not a submariner and it's only for one night.

 

[LGLG]

The rule is ... Be considerate of others, at all times. Simple.

 

[Glamgrrl]

Rules ensure order. We don’t want Gilead, sure. But rules are required to ensure some sense of civility. No phones in dorms is one such rule worth consideration.

I think this is so unrealistic. I sat on my bunk at 4pm making a photo of my route the next day, researching albergues because Of wifi availability, texting my daughter in the states to make sure things were OK, looking at pictures I had taken etc. no one was bothered, and I find technology handy and enjoyable. A phone call at 2:15 am would be disturbing for sure, but without knowing that person’a situation, I wouldn’t judge. Maybe they had an ill parent or family crisis happening. Life doesn’t stop for people just because of “your” Camino. In any situation, the call ended up being a social chat or emergency, the person should have gotten up and left to a common area to finish the call.

 

[JabbaPapa]

erm, don't use one in the dorm, I'd say. Actually, switch it off completely is best.

 

[JabbaPapa]

no one was bothered

That's just guesswork.

 

[LGLG]

I think this is so unrealistic. I sat on my bunk at 4pm making a photo of my route the next day, researching albergues because Of wifi availability, texting my daughter in the states to make sure things were OK, looking at pictures I had taken etc. no one was bothered, and I find technology handy and enjoyable. A phone call at 2:15 am would be disturbing for sure, but without knowing that person’a situation, I wouldn’t judge. Maybe they had an ill parent or family crisis happening. Life doesn’t stop for people just because of “your” Camino. In any situation, the call ended up being a social chat or emergency, the person should have gotten up and left to a common area to finish the call.

Actually, if I got woken up by the call at 2am, and even if the person then took it outside, I wouldnt be able to get back to sleep for the rest of the night! It’s really interesting to me how people now think the phone is essential at all times and everywhere in case of some, generally imagined, emergency, Are there so many more ‘justified’ needs than let’s say about ten years ago, when mobile phones were more the exception than the rule on the Camino?

 

[Deleted member 39850]

Actually, if I got woken up by the call at 2am, and even if the person then took it outside, I wouldnt be able to get back to sleep for the rest of the night! It’s really interesting to me how people now think the phone is essential at all times and everywhere in case of some, generally imagined, emergency, Are there so many more ‘justified’ needs than let’s say about ten years ago, when mobile phones were more the exception than the rule on the Camino?

In short: yes. Because the cell phone connection allows people who would otherwise be imprisoned in tiny little lives at home, bound to vulnerable others with a relentless grip because of the need to be in contact, finally to enjoy the freedom of movement that others with less dependent loved ones take for granted.

I cannot imagine what it would be like to be so unhinged from people to be able to abandon them for 6 weeks as the purists suggest we ought to do.

 

[Deleted member 59555]

I think this is so unrealistic. I sat on my bunk at 4pm making a photo of my route the next day, researching albergues because Of wifi availability, texting my daughter in the states to make sure things were OK, looking at pictures I had taken etc. no one was bothered, and I find technology handy and enjoyable. A phone call at 2:15 am would be disturbing for sure, but without knowing that person’a situation, I wouldn’t judge. Maybe they had an ill parent or family crisis happening. Life doesn’t stop for people just because of “your” Camino. In any situation, the call ended up being a social chat or emergency, the person should have gotten up and left to a common area to finish the call.

There was no good reason for the call. I know I heard it from one meter away. the person could have taken the phone out to the common room to continue the call. I can only hope that you dont get subjected to the same situation on "YOUR" next Camino. This will be my last comment on the subject.

 

[SabsP]

Actually, if I got woken up by the call at 2am, and even if the person then took it outside, I wouldnt be able to get back to sleep for the rest of the night! It’s really interesting to me how people now think the phone is essential at all times and everywhere in case of some, generally imagined, emergency, Are there so many more ‘justified’ needs than let’s say about ten years ago, when mobile phones were more the exception than the rule on the Camino?

There are certainly no more justified needs than ten years ago.
A cellphone is for me a practical tool.During the walk I put it off aside from taking pictures.
Then around 7.30 pm I put it on to textmessage the OH or call my mother.
Ten years ago I would have bought a phonecard or would have some small change and wait in line at the most convenient phonebooth.
Actually would prefer it that way still...was an excellent occasion to talk with others who were also waiting.

 

[Viva Terlingua]

There are certainly no more justified needs than ten years ago.
A cellphone is for me a practical tool.During the walk I put it off aside from taking pictures.
Then around 7.30 pm I put it on to textmessage the OH or call my mother.
Ten years ago I would have bought a phonecard or would have some small change and wait in line at the most convenient phonebooth.
Actually would prefer it that way still...was an excellent occasion to talk with others who were also waiting.

Maybe more people can do the Camino now than could have before because of someone or something they could not leave unattended for 5 weeks.

 

[Viva Terlingua]

Yesterday , when at a restaurant serving wonderful food, I observed two people constantly tapping their phones.Do not think they tasted the food at all or talked more than ten minutes during those two hours.
And yes it was rude towards the chef and other customers ( open bar ).

I disagree. Often when I'm travelling I'd like to have a beer rather than sitting alone in my room and I'll sit at a bar by myself and use that time to catch up on email or process pictures. I fail to see how that could be rude. I'm not bothering anybody and am in no way interfering with their ability to enjoy themselves.

 

[SabsP]

I disagree. Often when I'm travelling I'd like to have a beer rather than sitting alone in my room and I'll sit at a bar by myself and use that time to catch up on email or process pictures. I fail to see how that could be rude. I'm not bothering anybody and am in no way interfering with their ability to enjoy themselves.

Those were two friends dining together.
But constantly on their cellphone.
Frankly that is rude in my books and I would be shocked if one of my friends would prefer tapping his phone while we agreed in having a meal.
I was not referring to a solo person!!

 

[Viva Terlingua]

Those were two friends dining together.
But constantly on their cellphone.
Frankly that is rude in my books and I would be shocked if one of my friends would prefer tapping his phone while we agreed in having a meal.
I was not referring to a solo person!!

I'm not disagreeing that may be rude to each other, but I fail to see how it's rude to the other customers or the chef.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

A word from the other end of the phoneline. When I started walking from SJPdP in 2015 I left my daughter taking care of animals, greenhouses nurturing seedlings for summer vegetables. Our home is a good distance off the road - we like it that way. But I was concerned that it was a heavy load for her to bear so called several times (from outside when walking) to check that all was well. In the end she had had enough, and said Mum, you are walking the Camino, concentrate on that, adding that if there was any emergency she would get in touch and that I should stop worrying, stop phoning and focus on why I was where I was and let everything else go.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

she had had enough, and said Mum

You have a daughter wise beyond her years!

 

[VNwalking]

I cannot imagine what it would be like to be so unhinged from people to be able to abandon them for 6 weeks as the purists suggest we ought to do.

I'm not a purist, but I'll bite anyway. Abandoning? Unhinged from reality? Really?
Being able to be silent doesn't mean cold or unfeeling. Healthy boundaries between people allow space, even for long-ish periods. So long as there is no urgent reason to be in touch, walking with minimal internet connectivity deepens what the camino can do.

stop worrying, stop phoning and focus on why I was where I was and let everything else go.

Exactly. Your daughter is so right, @SEB!

 

[Deleted member 39850]

These inflexible and judgemental views about how we live our own camino’s really boggles my mind.
I actually had a full blown emergency on my last camino and was on my phone dealing with medical care providers, emergency travel alterations, family members who were speaking to me on behalf of the injured person who could not... And yes, I did that in my bunk so that I could sob into my pillow between calls.
I was so devastated that I pretty much had to be carried into Santiago by my Camino family. It took me more than 3 years to get over it. I have not had a break since that trip
I am finally trying 3 weeks away, and will be leaving a whole different set of supports at home, but YES I will be in contact with those supports whenever possible. And I hope for pilgrims around me to understand that this is what new tech has made possible. Without it, I would stay home, doing not only the work of my profession but also the work of care-giving, without support (because support only arrives when I am not here).
Please, please, try to be more generous of spirit.
You have no idea if my idle chatter to someone back home is keeping them “OK” for another day. Maybe the conversation sounds frivolous or stupid to you, but it’s not your loved one on the other end. You don’t know.
There are people with panic disorders, depression, anxiety associated with all kinds of primary health concerns. You don’t know why they have to call us at 7, or 2, or whenever. I will keep a vibrating alarm on my watch, and if I get a text in the night, I will know and I will go to a common room to reply.
But someone, predictably, will come to the forum to complain that cell phones are ruining life.

I'm not a purist, but I'll bite anyway. Abandoning? Unhinged from reality? Really?
Being able to be silent doesn't mean cold or unfeeling. Healthy boundaries between people allow space, even for long-ish periods. So long as there is no urgent reason to be in touch, walking with minimal internet connectivity deepens what the camino can do.
Exactly. Your daughter is so right, @SEB!

I said “unhinged from people” not from reality. And I said it because I’m sick of supposedly kind and gentle people using the excuse of the occasional ill mannered person to pop off about how cell phones and shallow, insecure, overly dramatic people are ruining Camino.
I grew up Catholic. Pilgrimages are not retreats. We have retreats where silence and disconnecting are the requirements.
I’m asking for my fellow *travellers* not to diminish the very real reasons that some of us could not travel the road (or anywhere) without being in contact.
We have people in early stage dementia, or parents with end stage COPD, or kids who are autistic but also independent if they have enough support.
And I do think it is churlishly unhinged from human need to assert (as so frequently happens in these discussions) that a proper Camino requires no contact with home.

 

[LGLG]

One side you, the other side x pilgrims. One way or the other, you'll be out of tolerance balance.

If you get angry, yes, I agree. But if you simply communicate to others that certain behaviours hurt you and/or others, then that has nothing to do with tolerance balance, but everything with encouraging more awareness of each others' needs.

 

[VNwalking]

I actually had a full blown emergency on my last camino and was on my phone dealing with medical care providers, emergency travel alterations, family members who were speaking to me on behalf of the injured person who could not...

I don't think anyone is talking about this kind of situation, @Morgan Holmes . At least I'm not. So I'm very sorry if it sounded that way. Urgent needs to be in touch are legitimate and important and need to be honored.

Speaking for myself, what's annoying is not the phones per se but the selfish disregard some people have about when and where they use them. It's pretty obvious when that happens, and like other pet peeves, is something we all have to deal with when staying in albergues.

Please, please, try to be more generous of spirit.

Mea culpa. Definitely.

It took me more than 3 years to get over it. I have not had a break since that trip

It sounds like what you went through was terrible, and it's so wonderful you have found a way to walk again.
Wishing you a buen camino, and some space and time to simply breathe and walk.

 

[C clearly]

I’m sick of supposedly kind and gentle people using the excuse of the occasional ill mannered person to pop off about how cell phones and shallow, insecure, overly dramatic people are ruining Camino

I have to agree with this.

Those were two friends dining together.
But constantly on their cellphone. Frankly that is rude in my books and I would be shocked if one of my friends would prefer tapping his phone while we agreed in having a meal.

I am, frankly, shocked at the suggestion that two consenting adults cannot sit companionably in a restaurant, and be able to talk/not talk, read/not read, smile/frown, whatever, as long as they are content with each other and not disturbing others. It dismays me that a stranger in the restaurant would be offended and judge me to be a rude person and judge our relationship to be inferior.

I have no compelling reason to justify my phone usage. I simply like what it does for me. It is not anyone else's business. Do you judge other friendships, relationships, marriages on such trivial criteria? Do you judge them for not chattering and interacting while walking? Do you have criteria for how they should keep company on the path and different criteria for how they should interact over dinner?

I walked a while with a person who decided one evening that it was appropriate to criticize me for a number of things - I spent too much time on my phone (but my time was always silent), I didn't have a happy expression on my face, I didn't interact enough, I was being too analytical, etc., etc. I was being told this "for my own good". I was amazed, as I am a confident, successful 69 year old with wonderful family, interesting work, and good health, and this person was telling me what I was apparently doing wrong with my life. I chose to react as little as possible, as I don't like drama and it would not help anyone. I took a rest day instead. I would rather stay home from the camino than spend another day subjecting myself to this. It was truly bizarre.

I regret that some of you will apparently think so poorly of me, but I can live with it, as long as I can avoid your open judgement on the Camino.

 

[peregrina2000]

I admit I have not read all of these posts carefully, but I get the drift and have read many similar threads. But my opinion is if you walk a camino and are going to stay in albergues, you have to be prepared for the lowest common denominator. In 2000, when I first walked, the lowest common denominator was plastic bag rustling at hours when many wanted to sleep or making noise in the albergue in the afternoon when people wanted to sleep. Today, it means much more than that, but my response is still the same: if you are not prepared for what the lowest common denominator will bring, you have three choices. One is to stay in private accommmodations. Two is to put up with it. Three is to stay home.

 

[Shades of Narnia]

I too was part of an emergency at 1:30am, in June. Daughter gone into labor in Canada and things not going well. My pillow vibrated quietly off and on right up to 4am. Being on top bunk I couldn't help but impack the pilgrim below with my movements no matter how hard I tried to be quiet unfortunately..........I apologised in the morning and she & I ended up walking together for several days

 

[Deleted member 39850]

I too was part of an emergency at 1:30am, in June. Daughter gone into labor in Canada and things not going well. My pillow vibrated quietly off and on right up to 4am. Being on top bunk I couldn't help but impack the pilgrim below with my movements no matter how hard I tried to be quiet unfortunately..........I apologised in the morning and she & I ended up walking together for several days

Just sending a virtual embrace to you and your family.

 

[JabbaPapa]

These inflexible and judgemental views about how we live our own camino’s really boggles my mind.

To suggest that a good way to try and have a better Camino might be to disconnect and "return" to a more "primitive" manner of life is not to be either inflexible nor judgmental, and one wonders how to characterise accusations like these.

Nor is it judgmental to suggest that using one's cellphone in a common dormitory during sleeping hours will disturb some people's sleep. It's just a direct mechanical consequence of such phone use, so that asking people to avoid doing it is not to "judge" anyone, but just to expect this simple act of courtesy from everyone in that particular community life situation, oneself included.

It's no different in purpose to expecting that people will clean up after using a shared toilet, do the dishes after using shared kitchen tools, to not try and engage in queue-jumping at cinemas, to not behave indecently in public, and so on ... and generally to expect that other people and oneself too will be respectful of others and their needs in all community living situations.

Please, please, try to be more generous of spirit.

That goes both ways.

I grew up Catholic. Pilgrimages are not retreats.

Then I think, respectfully, that there's something about foot pilgrimages generally and the Way of Saint James more specifically that you have yet to discover.

And I do think it is churlishly unhinged from human need to assert (as so frequently happens in these discussions) that a proper Camino requires no contact with home.

You seem to be conflating reasonable requests that cell-phone-owners should seek to refrain from disturbing the sleep of other people in communal dormitories with some silly notion that all "proper pilgrims" must cut off all contact with home ; as to where your exaggerated notion of "churlishly unhinged" comes from, I prefer not to speculate.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

...
I walked a while with a person who decided one evening that it was appropriate to criticize me for a number of things - I spent too much time on my phone (but my time was always silent), I didn't have a happy expression on my face, I didn't interact enough, I was being too analytical, etc., etc. I was being told this "for my own good". I was amazed, as I am a confident, successful 69 year old with wonderful family, interesting work, and good health, and this person was telling me what I was apparently doing wrong with my life. I chose to react as little as possible, as I don't like drama and it would not help anyone. I took a rest day instead. I would rather stay home from the camino than spend another day subjecting myself to this. It was truly bizarre.

I regret that some of you will apparently think so poorly of me, but I can live with it, as long as I can avoid your open judgement on the Camino.

@C clearly I am saddened that you felt that members of the forum would ever think poorly of you - on the contrary. I (and I am sure many others) have the greatest respect for your integrity. Your posts are always honest, generously sharing experience with members. Sometimes I disagree with what you say, frequently learn something useful or insightful and never ever think poorly of you. Your experience of meeting with a Camino bully, who shared your companionship before arrogantly standing in judgement of you, is a reminder that walking the Camino doesn't open all minds and hearts. Some folks arrive in SJPdP or wherever they start from with a particular mindset and leave with that mindset intact. Just as there are Camino Angels, so there are also Camino manipulators, Camino predators and Camino bullies and, sadly you me walked with one. The pilgrimage - religious or otherwise - offers a time for reflection but perhaps your companion became frightened by what that opportunity for introspection started to reveal about themselves, and instead of accepting the need for humility, inverted it into aggression. and projected this on to you.

On the use of mobile phones in albergues, well …

 

[katie@camino]

Those were two friends dining together.
But constantly on their cellphone.
Frankly that is rude in my books and I would be shocked if one of my friends would prefer tapping his phone while we agreed in having a meal.
I was not referring to a solo person!!

Perhaps they had spent the entire day walking and talking together. Perhaps that time in the bar was the only opportunity they had to contact others at home, reflect on their photos or just have some time out. Let's not judge.

 

[katie@camino]

I have to agree with this.



I am, frankly, shocked at the suggestion that two consenting adults cannot sit companionably in a restaurant, and be able to talk/not talk, read/not read, smile/frown, whatever, as long as they are content with each other and not disturbing others. It dismays me that a stranger in the restaurant would be offended and judge me to be a rude person and judge our relationship to be inferior.

I have no compelling reason to justify my phone usage. I simply like what it does for me. It is not anyone else's business. Do you judge other friendships, relationships, marriages on such trivial criteria? Do you judge them for not chattering and interacting while walking? Do you have criteria for how they should keep company on the path and different criteria for how they should interact over dinner?

I walked a while with a person who decided one evening that it was appropriate to criticize me for a number of things - I spent too much time on my phone (but my time was always silent), I didn't have a happy expression on my face, I didn't interact enough, I was being too analytical, etc., etc. I was being told this "for my own good". I was amazed, as I am a confident, successful 69 year old with wonderful family, interesting work, and good health, and this person was telling me what I was apparently doing wrong with my life. I chose to react as little as possible, as I don't like drama and it would not help anyone. I took a rest day instead. I would rather stay home from the camino than spend another day subjecting myself to this. It was truly bizarre.

I regret that some of you will apparently think so poorly of me, but I can live with it, as long as I can avoid your open judgement on the Camino.

Wholeheartedly agree with all of this.

 

[Lance Chambers]

I lost my cool completely with a bunch of boys who were, I believe, a party from a school with two youngish male teachers(?) going along with them. It was around 11 - 12 at night, they were in a separate section of the hostel but the noise was awful. I stood it for as long as possible and there were other people grumbling all around me as well. I got out of the bunk, grabbed my small torch, walked up to their dorm door and bashed on it very hard and yelled at them to be quiet. Dead silence descended on the hostel. Bliss!

Sometimes you just need to let people know they are being rude and inconsiderate.

I'm back again starting late August and I'll do it again if I feel I need to. No apologies, no qualms, and no regrets.

 

[VNwalking]

Perhaps they had spent the entire day walking and talking together. Perhaps that time in the bar was the only opportunity they had to contact others at home, reflect on their photos or just have some time out. Let's not judge.

A small correction: The people Sabine was referring to were in Belgium, not on the camino.

We will never completely agree one way or another about cell phones.
Bottom line is if we need to use them for whatever reason, we should be considerate of others. I am guessing that people here are and that I'm preaching to the choir.
And when someone is being inconsiderate (when, not if, because it will happen), it's up to each of us to deal with our own minds and whatever's arising there. People will be people and suffering on account of that is optional. That's a huge lesson to he had from living together, whether on the Camino or at home.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

I'm not disagreeing that may be rude to each other, but I fail to see how it's rude to the other customers or the chef.

When you go to a restaurant for dining you do yust that, you don't use a cell phone ever.

And when you don't get it , I would suggest that you follow a class how to behave in public .
Peter.

 

[Deleted member 39850]

I think, Jaba Papa, that I was very clear in stating that people use the occasional problem of perceived rudeness to make proclamations about what pilgrims in general should or should not be allowed to do with their phones, even to the point of asserting quite frequently that if we can’t disconnect then we have no right to be on the Camino. That is not advice; that is judgement.

To suggest that a good way to try and have a better Camino might be to disconnect and "return" to a more "primitive" manner of life is not to be either inflexible nor judgmental, and one wonders how to characterise accusations like these.

..........



Then I think, respectfully, that there's something about foot pilgrimages generally and the Way of Saint James more specifically that you have yet to discover.

---------

I think, respectfully, that there is no respect granted at all in determining from your vantage point whether any other person on the trail has discovered "the truth" of pilgrimage. I shall allow myself to be amused by the irony.

You seem to be conflating reasonable requests that cell-phone-owners should seek to refrain from disturbing the sleep of other people in communal dormitories with some silly notion that all "proper pilgrims" must cut off all contact with home ; as to where your exaggerated notion of "churlishly unhinged" comes from, I prefer not to speculate.

No. I am not. I am saying that too often (every thread it seems!) people use the excuse of one rude person's behaviour to make sweeping judgements about how people use their tech. And to make assertions about who should or should not be walking, who has discovered the true meaning and spirit of Camino, and so on, ad nauseam.

I've concluded that my coming CF will be my last one, when I hope to walk into Santiago as a whole person without a catastrophe on my hands. And then I will go places where there are fewer people who seem to be wishing that all the other people were doing things in only one way.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

It may be the weather but does anybody else feel there are some right drama queens about today (of both sexes)?

 

[JabbaPapa]

I think, respectfully, that there is no respect granted at all in determining from your vantage point whether any other person on the trail has discovered "the truth" of pilgrimage. I shall allow myself to be amused by the irony.

Thank you for this expression of your disrespect then, I suppose.

I think, Jaba Papa, that I was very clear in stating that people use the occasional problem of perceived rudeness to make proclamations about what pilgrims in general should or should not be allowed to do with their phones, even to the point of asserting quite frequently that if we can’t disconnect then we have no right to be on the Camino.

I can find not one example in the thread of anybody suggesting any such thing.

That is not advice; that is judgement.

That too goes both ways.

No. I am not. I am saying that too often (every thread it seems!) people use the excuse of one rude person's behaviour to make sweeping judgements about how people use their tech.

To suggest that using a cellphone in a common dormitory during sleeping hours might be a tad antisocial does not constitute "making sweeping judgements".

And to make assertions about who should or should not be walking, who has discovered the true meaning and spirit of Camino, and so on, ad nauseam.

I can find not one example in the thread of anybody suggesting any such thing.

people who seem to be wishing that all the other people were doing things in only one way.

I can find not one example in the thread of anybody suggesting any such thing, beyond some suggestions that common courtesies should be afforded to all and by all.

 

[trecile]

Thank you for all your comments.
I posted this thread based on an actual experience. While I can,t give all the details I will say that we were a group and when I raised the matter the next day with the group I was made to look like a grumpy old man. Before I drop the subject I will give you one more fact .The time the call was made. It was 2.15 AM.

I wish that this information had been included in the initial post! Then maybe we wouldn't have gone down this rabbit hole of judging how people use their phones when it has absolutely no impact on you.

When you go to a restaurant for dining you do yust that, you don't use a cell phone ever.

And when you don't get it , I would suggest that you follow a class how to behave in public .
Peter.

Often, when I'm dining alone I'll catch up on email, post to my blog or check out upcoming stages on an ebook on my phone.

And many times with other pilgrims we will consult our various apps and compare notes. I'm pretty sure that this behavior doesn't negatively affect those around us - unless they choose to let it.

And for the record, I am against audible phones in the dorms. And that includes alarms!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Hi Peter!

How is our favourite Dutchman today?

 

[Shades of Narnia]

Just sending a virtual embrace to you and your family.

Thank you. Morgan. 9 pound 2 ounce healthy baby boy - 'Finn Alexander', born June 4th. Today (July 26th) we can finally say that our daughter is well on the road to recovery from the birthing trauma. All is well. fondly sandi

 

[Deleted member 36903]

It may be the weather but does anybody else feel there are some right drama queens about today (of both sexes)?

It's the heat. @Jeff Crawley.
Also @trecile the earlier post about using phones in restaurants - and both posters did use the word restaurants not cafes/bars/fast food outlets - it's worth knowing that in some European countries there are quite extablished rules of etiquette for when dining out. There may be some cross-cultural stuff going on here where one person is referring to the good manners expected in their country when dining in a restaurant and other people are transferring the etiquette rules to amore informal setting. Just saying ...

 

[Deleted member 39850]

Thank you. Morgan. 9 pound 2 ounce healthy baby boy - 'Finn Alexander', born June 4th. Today (July 26th) we can finally say that our daughter is well on the road to recovery from the birthing trauma. All is well. fondly sandi

I am delighted to hear it! Congratulations to your family. (I was a 12-week early 2 pounder in 1967... most of my kind didn’t make it then... so difficult birth stories really hit me as I worry most for the families’ potentially broken hearts). May all of you enjoy what lies ahead with abundant blessings.

 

[peregrina2000]

This thread took one wrong turn into sex in albergues, resulting in lots of deleted posts, and has now taken another one into generalizations about real pilgrims, which is another topic that never goes anywhere good. Deep breath and time to close the thread.

Let’s leave it with the point we can all surely agree on — that 2:15 am is not a time at which a considerate or polite person talks on the phone in the sleeping room of an albergue. And that was the point the OP was trying to make.