Carbon neutral Camino?

[Tincatinker]

I got called a “Climate Change Denyer” on here a few months ago but hey, we all need to be someone’s boogaboo.
Anyone wanting to calculate an anything like accurate carbon cost for any given journey by any given means should take into account the carbon cost of the super-computer required to process the calculations.

One common conflation is the Ccost of a flight London to Madrid against a rail journey. Trouble is most of the available calculators will use the same Crow-flies distance for both journeys. Another is that most if not all the publically available calculators apply expended carbon based energy ie consumed fuel as the entire cost base. There is no consideration of for instance Road, Rail or Airport construction and maintenance. No consideration of local energy sourcing and no consideration of individual journey makers consumption of resources other than fuel.

The reason? It’s too bloody difficult.

That’s why I plant trees. And walk to the shops and the pub and for pleasure.

 

[Former member 102963]

I love trains. I got as far as Tsipaw in Myanmar, from Poitiers via Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Mongolia, China, Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand. Some river boats and a couple of buses were also involved, many youth hostels, and some small hotels and a lot of street food at strange hours of the day. I discovered the joys of free entry to some otherwise expensive cultural venues simply by being over sixty, as well as some very cheap train fares . 21 days including several side trips and stop overs before visiting the grand babies in Thailand. That was in 2017. For some reason China gave me a two year multiple entry visa so I went back in 2018 to travel on some more trains. Some of them averaging over 300kph. Others stopping every hour for ten hours to go not very far. Happy days.
Getting back to Spain, if you aren't in a hurry there is a narrow gauge train all the way along the coast from A Coruña to the French border. Two days and a few changes. Revisit the Norte on your way home. Take your bike on it, no need to put it in a box. Don't forget to buy your over 60 card in Spain if you qualify. Makes fast trains a lot cheaper. Book in advance on your phone to save more money, no need to print the ticket, it's in the app. Unlike Myanmar, where they write them out by hand.

Hopefully of interest!

Slow train through Spain: a narrow-gauge ride through España Verde | Spain holidays | The Guardian

The Feve network is a long way off high-speed … which is perfect for taking in the coast, mountain views and charming towns of Cantabria, Asturias and Galicia

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Very true, and a real pity.
So people from the States are stuck needing to take short flights to get to hub airports.

Not everyone and not me. I drive my car 15 miles to the bus for a 1.25 hour ride that commutes to the Chicago airport...it is what it is whether I like it or not.

 

[J Willhaus]

Yes of course! It’s really tough for North Americans… I guess a bit easier in the coastal cities, Chicago, etc but when I have visited states like Texas and Florida I wonder how folks manage!!

Driving is the norm for us in the Wyoming, but also in many other places. I am able to walk or ride the bus to the gym, work, and some stores, but only because I work for the only University in the State and students/faculty/staff often need transport. I do think about how some of my favorite goods are produced with lots of water and lots of transportation to get to me. I do like a more simple existence which may be why I am drawn to the Camino...
Still if I want to get to some of my favorite mountain places here in Wyoming, I almost certainly have to drive at least to the trailhead.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Yes of course! It’s really tough for North Americans… I guess a bit easier in the coastal cities, Chicago, etc but when I have visited states like Texas and Florida I wonder how folks manage!!

The desire has to be greater than the inconvenience.

 

[Bristle Boy]

I got called a “Climate Change Denyer” on here a few months ago but hey, we all need to be someone’s boogaboo.
Anyone wanting to calculate an anything like accurate carbon cost for any given journey by any given means should take into account the carbon cost of the super-computer required to process the calculations.

One common conflation is the Ccost of a flight London to Madrid against a rail journey. Trouble is most of the available calculators will use the same Crow-flies distance for both journeys. Another is that most if not all the publically available calculators apply expended carbon based energy ie consumed fuel as the entire cost base. There is no consideration of for instance Road, Rail or Airport construction and maintenance. No consideration of local energy sourcing and no consideration of individual journey makers consumption of resources other than fuel.

The reason? It’s too bloody difficult.

That’s why I plant trees. And walk to the shops and the pub and for pleasure.

My view entirely.
It is so complicated and also makes no consideration if the mode of transport you are travelling on is full of passengers or relatively empty.
I do my best and is all I can do. I do what I feel is right allowing that my choices at times are limited and might have to compromise.

 

[peregrina2000]

ough for North Americans… I guess a bit easier in the coastal cities, Chicago, etc

I live about 150 miles south of Chicago. It is impossible to get up to Chicago in time for a meeting or to spend the day and be back home in the evening by either train or bus. If you don’t drive, you can’t do it. I remember when a Spanish friend and his family spent a year in my town. They had assumed they would be able to hop on a train to go to Chicago for the day with no problem — HA.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

My view entirely.
It is so complicated and also makes no consideration if the mode of transport you are travelling on is full of passengers or relatively empty.
I do my best and is all I can do. I do what I feel is right allowing that my choices at times are limited and i might have to compromise.

I totally agree and even the word "complicated" is putting it mildly. A difficult task for each individual to try to figure out how much we are actually able to, and willing to be inconvenienced for the good of our earth.

 

[Former member 102963]

I totally agree and even the word "complicated" is putting it mildly. A difficult task for each individual to try to figure out how much we are actually able to, and willing to be inconvenienced for the good of our earth.

You have my sympathy! We moan in Europe if a train is only every hour, or doesn’t start until 0800 on a Sunday or doesn’t run all night!

 

[oursonpolaire]

We have been considering a repositioning cruise from the US in the future to get to Spain. Don't know if there is really any reduction in fuel use there? We also try to take the train or bus in Spain rather than a taxi or rental. I usually don't use pack transportation either although have for my husband last year at least one day.

Yes, I do think about things like waste, but mainly because I am stingy if the truth be told.

I've always assumed that sea travel would be more carbon-efficient than flying and for this reason have spent happy hours looking at repositioning cruises, useful results being limited by the fact that no trans-atlantic liners stop in Canada (although Cunard leaves out of Vigo or Barcelona from time to time, landing in NYC or, even more uselessly for me, Miami). The days of CP's Empress of Canada sailing out of Montréal are long gone.

However, unless one is travelling by sail or à la Greta, the answer is not that positive. This site (https://www.treehugger.com/what-is-greener-boat-vs-plane-emissions-5185547) suggests that the mathematics are really not at all simple, and the conclusion might weigh in favour of aeroplanes andthat we should research which aircraft you might be using, as some are more planet-friendly than others.

One possibility, if you don't mind abandoning the social life of a passenger boat, is to find a freighter-- they are less inclined to take passengers these days and are more frequently found plying routes between container ports (this could be very helpful for Texas and Gulf pilgrims). It seems that much carbon expenditure by liners is on account of their hotel-related carbon costs-- this would not be the case for a freighter. One restriction is that freighters do not like elderly passengers on account of potential health issues, and there different restrictions for different ships.

A very remote possibility, unless a pilgrim has serious contacts or can masquerade successfully as a hearty tar, is the Juan Sebastián de Elcano, a Spanish navy training schooner which sometimes makes transatlantic crossings. When one is accustomed to albergue life, the shift would not be that difficult.

Nevertheless, I will still continue to look at repositioning cruises.... when one is insomniac at times....

 

[natcire]

This is exactly something I have been tossing about in my mind and heart for a year or more now. I have so many Caminos in my bucket list when I retire and the number of flights I need to take has me re-think how I can reduce the number of flights. One thought is to 'live' in Europe and use the train. Definitely, not able to take a train across the Atlantic.

How opportune that a new thread "Relocate to Spain after 65" last evening. The Camino provides what is needed, eh? https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/relocate-to-spain-after-65.77926/

 

[Bob P]

Just researched a variety of carbon calculators on "footprint" per 1000 miles of travel

Worst is travel by ship
Then air travel
Then automobile
Then train

So, a flight from US to Spain has less impact than a ship. Trains and cars don't make that trip and swimming is out of thr question. By accident, I chose the lowest impact transportation, by flying

 

[J Willhaus]

Just researched a variety of carbon calculators on "footprint" per 1000 miles of travel

Worst is travel by ship
Then air travel
Then automobile
Then train

So, a flight from US to Spain has less impact than a ship. Trains and cars don't make that trip and swimming is out of thr question. By accident, I chose the lowest impact transportation, by flying

Ok, I will keep that in mind. I did read a book about a pilgrim who took a freighter and also checked that route.

 

[JustJack]

I can confidently say that until I saw this thread the carbon impact of my planned camino has never entered my mind. And to be honest, after posting this comment it will leave my mind and not re-enter it.

This isn't a critical or judgmental statement - just being honest. I will find other occasions to contribute to the health of the environment, and I will fly across the ocean to Spain completely guilt-free.

 

[Tincatinker]

Here's a side-ways for those who would like to endeavour to reduce the carbon impact of their Camino journey: [Using] three percent of the global electricity supply and accounting for about two percent of total greenhouse gas emissions, data centres have the same carbon footprint as the aviation industry.

Source: https://www.computerworld.com/artic...tier-in-the-fight-against-climate-change.html

It occurs to me that pilgrims could off-set their trip by NOT Blogging; Vlogging; up-loading all those hundreds of photographs of that nice tree outside Villafranca and by, perhaps, avoiding poasting (pun intended) on this forum

 

[Barbara]

Just researched a variety of carbon calculators on "footprint" per 1000 miles of travel

Worst is travel by ship
Then air travel
Then automobile
Then train

So, a flight from US to Spain has less impact than a ship. Trains and cars don't make that trip and swimming is out of thr question. By accident, I chose the lowest impact transportation, by flying

It takes about thirty days at sea to sail from la Rochelle in France to Salvador de Bahia in Brazil. Probably a bit less from New York to A Coruña. Not much carbon impact there as you would in any case be breathing.

 

[Roland49]

I will fly from Hamburg to Porto in March and back from Porto to Hannover in April.
I booked the flights with Carbon-compensation (~20€), knowing that it is not sure, that the carriers will plant trees or supporting environmental groups.

But I started picking up trash from Hospital de Orbigo until SdC (in the small yellow bag) on my CF in 2019 and try to minimize my footprint by buying local food and not travelling unnecessarily.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

ooooops politics

Not really

 

[Roland49]

data centres have the same carbon footprint as the aviation industry.

As far as I read lately: with the waste heat of the datacenters in Frankfurt/Germany (bank capital of continental europe, biggest single node on this planet) you could heat all private property in town. They are loosing big money by climatizing the datacenters instead of selling the waste heat to use in district heating.

 

[MaryStella]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

I have no other way to get to my starting point.
I figured am lessening my carbon footprint to compensate as I am not at home driving my car every day, not using my washing machine, not useing my furnace or A/c at home, or burning thru hot water. I also am making less garbage.
I am walking.

 

[Ian Salsbury]

I think the answer to this is a matter for an individuals personal beliefs.
There was once a channel 4 science based documentary years ago titled 'The Big Swindle'. It was on YouTube but is not now. It basically looked at the way our earth has followed a sine wave going back many millions of years in respect of its temperatures and the fact that it still is, perfectly following this sine wave and the little affect our species, humans, have actually had and also the benefits to our governments of taxation for global warming on petrol etc, etc.
My beliefs are my beliefs but who knows the truth in all this ?.
By the mere fact that we all take our vacation whether it be a few days or months hiking on foot the camino instead of a different type of vacation, are we not all doing our bit towards the carbon footprint - by walking such a huge distance, no matter how we get to the start of our hike. I've just returned home to the UK by plane train and bus but I did walk over 600 miles when I could have spent 6 weeks doing something else not quite as 'green' as walking.
Did I consider my carbon footprint before planning my trip, or before my caminos next year ? No, not at all.

 

[Paladina]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

Good question. I don’t drive, and would now only fly in an emergency, and the Camino is not an emergency. If I can’t afford the costlier alternatives I’ll follow the pilgrim paths closer to home.

 

[naplesdon]

Do what many expats like me have done. Immigrate to a place that allows you to walk out your front to walk the Camino. It’s that simple. Charge a CO2 fee to walk the Camino for everyone else.

 

[Curly Cath]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

Hi Barbara

I think it's a really good question.

It forms part of my decision making, and as I've become more educated and aware I make better choices now than I did a few years ago. I've attached a handy graphic, printed by BBC news.

Ferries and cargo ships are much better than flying (hence why the carbon footprint of bananas is so low - they are shipped to the uk).

I used to fly to Spain a few years back. I don't now that I know short haul flights are the worst culprits in terms of carbon emissions.

I now don't fly in Europe or more than once every few years

The graphic clearly shows how short haul flights are worst. Coaches (any long distance bus) are surprisingly good.

We are all part of a filthy system and i think it's hard to know what to choose sometimes. We can feel overwhelmed.

Not flying to the camino is part of other choices to try and live lightly on the earth. I don't have a car, at home I don't buy meat and I am reducing my energy consumption

There are other things I am learning about and need to make more changes! I am studying environmental sustainability in Wales. I love it.

This post is intended for info, not shaming or virtue signalling.


Buen caminos xxx

 

[Former member 88968]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?

I fly to my starting point or as close to it as I can. I have to - i live in Australia I have no feelings about my implication in global warming because I don't believe I am impacting on global warming.

Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem?

as above - I consider that there isn't a problem.

Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations?

not sure what you mean here. Are you still talking about global warming? If so, then yes.

Have you thought about other options?

There are no other options. But I will basically always travel the cheapest way, though I do balance that against the time it takes eg sometimes a $250 cheaper flight can take an extra 12 hours, so it's not worth it.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree

Global warming is not part of any decision tree I have for anything, ever.

 

[Former member 88968]

It's quite possible that a walk on the Camino for a month or even a few weeks more than offsets any carbon footprint involved in getting to Spain by air.

How?

Hypothetically, if you cause damage by flying, how are you undoing that damage by walking, surely walking just means you aren't adding to the damage ie making it worse? Once the damage is done, the damage is done. Even paying a tax for it doesn't repair it.

 

[Ian Salsbury]

How?

Hypothetically, if you cause damage by flying, how are you undoing that damage by walking, surely walking just means you aren't adding to the damage ie making it worse? Once the damage is done, the damage is done. Even paying a tax for it doesn't repair it.

I would agree that you are absolutely correct, but I would suggest taking a holiday hiking you are being 'greener' than say spending that week, or month or whatever on holiday doing something different ie cruising etc.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Can we do better for our planet absolutely, but we tend to focus on the wrong things and it just falls into a cesspool of virtue signaling madness.

Amen. Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?

 

[VNwalking]

Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?

Yes.

 

[SabsP]

Amen. Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?

A big impact. So yes! And already trying to give a good example myself.

 

[WGroleau]

It is not politics unless we make it politics… it is almost a yes or no question. Is this something you are thinking of? Yes or no.

Almost borders on an argument to post all these warnings about behavior we expect from folks that haven't misbehaved yet.

Anyway, my reason for making waling and bicycling my primary transportation had nothing to do with global warming. I just one day suspected that operating and maintaining and insuring a motor vehicle was an unnecessary expense, and standing at bus stops in the rain was an unnecessary inconvenience. And once the car was out of my life, I found that suspicion was correct. Once in a while, time makes walking or bicycling inconvenient, but not often.

Oceans, unfortunately, aren't bike-friendly, though. Shortly before I retired, an article appeared about a company that wanted to build a bridge from Alaska to Siberia. I thought "Great, no more need for flying!" But alas, more than a dozen years later, there is no sign of it even being thought about.

 

[Ian Salsbury]

Amen. Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?

Nope.

 

[WGroleau]

Now, of course, most non-Spanish Peregrinos simply have no choice but to fly,

Or spend a ridiculous amount of money for a week of mediocre food and obsequiousness that borders on harassment from a cruise line. Yeah, I made that mistake, but I won't repeat it. (Plus it probably burned more fossil fuel than a dozen flights.)

As for the ones protesting that this is political, why not ignore them? When I was a teacher, one of my mentors said, "Any fool can argue—it takes two to make it a conversation."

 

[WGroleau]

As a whole it's impossible to be carbon zero or even carbon low on any trip anywhere no matter what one does. Our mere daily existence on earth causes fuel of some kind to be burned, emissions to be released and living creatures to die.

True. I may have exhaled a ton of CO₂ in the thousands of kilometers I bicycled or walked since I got rid of the car. But it would have been half a ton if I had stayed home.

Anyway, despite being a realist and knowing our planet is in all probability doomed, I still loathe buying bottled water and see it as an unnecessary waste.

On that point, I have better news. There are many purveyors of portable solutions for avoiding unhealthy water. My favorite is the "Grayl"—refilled three times between Los Arcos and Arróniz from streams and ditches with no ill effect.

 

[WGroleau]

I haven't read most of these longer posts because they will not apply to me. Unfortunately we have very few trains in the US and the same with our bus system. Both are extremely limited on where you can travel and how often they run, thus absolutely nowhere near the options available in Europe. If not living in a larger city a car is definitely necessary.

If you have a job, I suppose the calendar and clock make the bicycle impractical. I was fortunate to find a house three blocks from work and four from the hospital. Joked that I could get to the E.R. faster than the ambulance could make the round-trip to pick me up. Boss said, with all your biking, you won't need to go.
But I never wished I had a car in the twelve years since I got rid of it.

Bragging? Maybe. But how else can I make the point? If one can do a Camino, then one can push or drag a cart to a grocery store. (I pull a trailer behind my bike.)

 

[Kasee]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

I’m going to answer the question. Our carbon footprint did concern us. We made a big carbon offset donation to a nonprofit that pays farmers a living wage to care for the rainforest in Indonesia rather than cutting trees down to plan crops. We also took the train as often as possible. It’s not a perfect solution, but it helps a bit.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

If one can do a Camino, then one can push or drag a cart to a grocery store. (I pull a trailer behind my bike.)

Since you have quoted me...
I live in a small town and I chose to pay more for shopping at my local grocery store for its covenience to where I live, and to shop locally when I can. It is on the other side of town nearly two miles away so I take my car and go once every week or so.
I need my car to drive the 15 miles to the city to go to my dentist, doctors as needed, and to visit siblings and help a disabled brother. There are NO buses or trains to the city. Clearly we all live in different regions, and modes of travel can never be "one size fits all".
BTW, I am retired, but if I were still working I would need my car, although I did carpool with a friend I worked with for several years and we took urns driving.

 

[natcire]

A big impact. So yes! And already trying to give a good example myself.

I hope we can have an impact. I have a 16 yo so I worry about the condition I leave this world for him and his generation, and generations after. It takes little effort on my part to think before I act like booking direct routes to EU and then take a train, walk or bicycle for short distances. I have planted 11 trees on my lot in the past 20 years. We will move to Europe so I can continue to walk more Caminos.

 

[Trekker One]

I hope we can have an impact. I have a 16 yo so I worry about the condition I leave this world for him and his generation, and generations after. It takes little effort on my part to think before I act like booking direct routes to EU and then take a train, walk or bicycle for short distances. I have planted 11 trees on my lot in the past 20 years. We will move to Europe so I can continue to walk more Caminos.

Planting trees is one of the few things mentioned in this entire thread that make an actual difference in the planets health, so good for you, you are doing something worthwhile. We are losing Amazon rain forest at a horrific rate.
We are blessed in Canada with an abundance of forests that act as a great absorber of carbon and CO2 emissions.

 

[Thornley]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

As you live in that beautiful country , can I say that the most beautiful sound you can hear when in the fog and mist on the GR 65 from Le Puy are those cow bells .
Now those poor buggers are getting taxed like us .
If i was a Hereford, Friesian or Jersey I would go on strike and set that latte set back a few days [ lol ]

It's pretty hard to sail to Europe from our little Island down here so unfortunately we pay for the carbon being used.

My husband and I had a conversation this week about what people used before plastics. Makes you think more about reusing things. So many things we discard without much thought, but my grandmother kept every glass jar and plastic container because we "might need it". One thing about the Camino is that you start to think about how many things can have multiple uses and you get by with much less when you must carry it!

Not so long ago , let's say 50 yrs when we got married we stayed in a beautiful old ladies home to save for our own.
She was NOT charged rubbish removal costs by the local council.
Everything was out of her garden or from the butcher & baker and was wrapped in paper ....which she burnt ....and those ashes went into her vegie patch.
The Fridays Fish and Chips came in the old newspaper and the Chinese take away was in " your " pot taken and filled.

Common sense will maybe make a come back on "minor matters" which the Camino shows us daily so beautifully.
Simplicity in life
Happy and Joyous Christmas to all

 

[dick bird]

Amen. Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?

If nobody does nothing, nothing will happen. Obviously, if only the 2 -3 hundred thousand people who walk the camino every year change their lifestyle, the total effect will be pretty small. I think the suggestion being made is that everybody should change their lifestyle, including the 2 - 3 hundred thousand who walk the camino every year. That would make a difference.

 

[wayfarer]

I think that this deceased equine quadruped has been well and truly flagellated at this stage.

 

[Thornley]

Amen. Does anyone seriously think that if all the pilgrims for the next century adopted the practices suggested in many posts of this thread, it would actually have the slightest impact on the problem?

If nobody does nothing, nothing will happen. Obviously, if only the 2 -3 hundred thousand people who walk the camino every year change their lifestyle, the total effect will be pretty small. I think the suggestion being made is that everybody should change their lifestyle, including the 2 - 3 hundred thousand who walk the camino every year. That would make a difference.

Before the grand kids arrive and rip my figures to pieces I don't think our mob have any say in the footprint whatsoever.
2.8 BILLION people in 2 very wealthy countries , who will not change their ways , and more than likely can't.
So the 25 million poor Aussies have no hope .
We are under 1% [.89%]
We cannot alter the world or influence it when we have less than 1% of China and Indias population

There are 10,000 stars , according to the science shows , for every grain of sand on earth.
Knowing how much beach we have >>>>>>
I think we might be selling the poor old Earth a bit short .
The floods in The Riverina will not reach in a few days the peak [ record ] of 50 years ago .

We poor old Pilgrims [ 1 : 11, 200 ratio to the above countries only ] should on this joyous day Thank God we are alive and just look after each other and if possible query statements and figures about the coming disaster.

No more , the troubles have arrived and the weight increase will soon commence .
And these same rugrats who worry about the future of mother earth demand we keep digging to upgrade their G5 / 6 or 7 phones [lol]

 

[peregrina2000]

Ok, we did a pretty good job of streamlining the thread to limit responses to the question asked, which was — What, if anything, do you do to reduce your carbon footprint? The urge to stray from the topic and to get into the political debate seems to be irrepressible, though. I think we’ve given our collective wisdom in the form of suggestions of things to do if you are so inclined. So, I think it’s time to close. Especially since the mods are not likely to be out in force on the forum over the next few days.

 

[dick bird]

Before the grand kids arrive and rip my figures to pieces I don't think our mob have any say in the footprint whatsoever.
2.8 BILLION people in 2 very wealthy countries , who will not change their ways , and more than likely can't.
So the 25 million poor Aussies have no hope .
We are under 1% [.89%]
We cannot alter the world or influence it when we have less than 1% of China and Indias population

There are 10,000 stars , according to the science shows , for every grain of sand on earth.
Knowing how much beach we have >>>>>>
I think we might be selling the poor old Earth a bit short .
The floods in The Riverina will not reach in a few days the peak [ record ] of 50 years ago .

We poor old Pilgrims [ 1 : 11, 200 ratio to the above countries only ] should on this joyous day Thank God we are alive and just look after each other and if possible query statements and figures about the coming disaster.

No more , the troubles have arrived and the weight increase will soon commence .
And these same rugrats who worry about the future of mother earth demand we keep digging to upgrade their G5 / 6 or 7 phones [lol]

We can always find excuses for doing nothing. I do know that if I reduce my own carbon footprint by, say, 10%, as an Australian that has a lot more impact than an Indian rural peasant or a Chinese factory worker doing the same thing. If we all take individual action that is absolutely no guarantee of success but if we all do nothing, that is an absolute guarantee of failure, as is blaming somebody else for the problems.