Carbon neutral Camino?

[Barbara]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

 

[JabbaPapa]

ooooops politics

 

[Barbara]

ooooops politics

No. A question that deserves answers, whatever they might be.

 

[Kathor1]

ooooops politics

Not politics.

@Barbara merely asks what individual forum members are doing and/or whether they have changed their personal behaviour and attitude.

I have, however, next to no doubt that some posters will soon post their personal opinions about CO2 reduction actions, whether individually taken by others than the poster himself or attempted on a wider level, and that will count as political discussion and the thread will get closed thanks to them.

 

[Kathor1]

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

As to Camino in Spain, I've not been to Spain since 2019 or so. If and when I go again, I am likely to travel from a more northern part of Europe directly to Santiago. I have been looking at options to go by train ... it will be a first for this distance and a long journey. Much longer than a flight, whether direct or via Madrid, and in all likelihood more expensive, too.

 

[ivar]

Good question. We will watch the thread, if it gets political we will close it.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Honestly, it's political from the outset.

And there is no way that I would contribute to discussion, principally because not only are other forums more suitable for this sort of discussion, but also because it is hard to see how this might in any way be useful to the Pilgrims of the Way of Saint James for the preparation of their pilgrimages to the tomb of the Apostle.

What has such business as a carbon footprint to do with my foot pilgrimage from home and back along these ancient Ways ?

Each pilgrim of course has his own thoughts on these questions, and they are exactly the sort of matter that can be fruitful to discuss on these pilgrim ways, but I cannot see any benefit to the forum nor to pilgrims in discussing these politics in here.

 

[dougfitz]

Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?

@Barbara, I have watched your forum contributions for some time. If I hadn't had that background, this would have seemed like virtue signalling. I know it isn't but, unfortunately, I fear there will be some who use the opportunity you have created here for exactly that.

 

[J Willhaus]

We have been considering a repositioning cruise from the US in the future to get to Spain. Don't know if there is really any reduction in fuel use there? We also try to take the train or bus in Spain rather than a taxi or rental. I usually don't use pack transportation either although have for my husband last year at least one day.

Yes, I do think about things like waste, but mainly because I am stingy if the truth be told.

 

[ivar]

It is not politics unless we make it politics… it is almost a yes or no question. Is this something you are thinking of? Yes or no.

 

[Barbara]

As to Camino in Spain, I've not been to Spain since 2019 or so. If and when I go again, I am likely to travel from a more northern part of Europe directly to Santiago. I have been looking at options to go by train ... it will be a first for this distance and a long journey. Much longer than a flight, whether direct or via Madrid, and in all likelihood more expensive, too.

It would be an interesting journey. It's a pity there are so few sleeper trains. Would you take time to visit elsewhere on the way?

 

[martin1ws]

In 2018 I went by bus to my starting point in Spain. It was no fun, especially the night in the bus.

So afterwards I always flew to and from Spain. So I do CO2 compensation for the flights... and a little bit more than the share for the flights... with a company that is tested and should have a good compensation strategy...
And the co2 compensation for a flight from and to Germany does not cost that much (about 25 Euro one-way as I looked the last time; there are websites where you could calculate the per-person co2 per flight, airplane, start point, end point and so on ). Hopefully the compensation does what it should do.

And it is much easier to argue for the flight with co2 compensation with my daughters... one of them is a little bit radical in her environmental attitude (from my point of view).

 

[VNwalking]

What has such business as a carbon footprint to do with my foot pilgrimage from home and back along these ancient Ways ?

It obviously doesn't because you're walking, not flying or driving as some others need to do.

Here was the question, and a very good one that is in no way political: do we consider our carbon footprint in getting to the camino, and if so, how?:

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?

Or, as @ivar says very well, are you thinking of this - yes or no? So in answer to that question, @ivar, yes - absolutely.
In the past several Spanish caminos I've flown from places in Europe into Madrid or Santiago and out of Santiago, taking train to my starting point. In one case it was about convenience and a tight schedule, in three cases it was because I needed to be in Ireland and was coming from there. Now I'm retinking options for next year so that I just go down by train. Every little bit counts.

 

[ivar]

The new fast speed train from Santiago to Madrid us an option for those thinking if this…

 

[Barbara]

Honestly, it's political from the outset.

And there is no way that I would contribute to discussion, principally because not only are other forums more suitable for this sort of discussion, but also because it is hard to see how this might in any way be useful to the Pilgrims of the Way of Saint James for the preparation of their pilgrimages to the tomb of the Apostle.

What has such business as a carbon footprint to do with my foot pilgrimage from home and back along these ancient Ways ?

Each pilgrim of course has his own thoughts on these questions, and they are exactly the sort of matter that can be fruitful to discuss on these pilgrim ways, but I cannot see any benefit to the forum nor to pilgrims in discussing these politics in here.

Well, I did address the question to those who fly or drive. Because if you don't do either, or use other motorised transport then you are by definition already being carbon neutral. I don't consider my question political, rather a reflection on pilgrimage and how we travel on pilgrimage in this century. Not everyone can travel to Santiago and back without some other means of travel that their feet, after all.

 

[VNwalking]

The new fast speed train from Santiago to Madrid us an option for those thinking if this…

And there is a Paris-Bayonne TGV.

 

[Tickbush]

I intend to buy carbon offsets to lessen my impact. There are several reputable organizations online.

 

[JabbaPapa]

It is not politics unless we make it politics… it is almost a yes or no question. Is this something you are thinking of? Yes or no.

It is intrinsically political, Ivar, in that behavioural modification in response to some party political allegations about individual activities versus collective consequences is political by nature.

And I am deliberately avoiding discussion of any specifics, as being irrelevant to the Way of Saint James.

Let's just take your question. And my answer.

No.

See how that works ?

 

[JabbaPapa]

It would be an interesting journey. It's a pity there are so few sleeper trains. Would you take time to visit elsewhere on the way?

OTOH sleeper trains are absolutely brilliant !!

 

[JabbaPapa]

Well, I did address the question to those who fly or drive. Because if you don't do either, or use other motorised transport then you are by definition already being carbon neutral. I don't consider my question political, rather a reflection on pilgrimage and how we travel on pilgrimage in this century. Not everyone can travel to Santiago and back without some other means of travel that their feet, after all.

So what is the "carbon footprint" of the glass of white wine that my table neighbour is taking right now in Viana ?

It is obviously political, in that it seeks to effectuate changes in public behaviour.

Nothing wrong with such discussions between pilgrims on the Camino, but I find it to be very inappropriate in here.

We are here to help pilgrims and prospective pilgrims along their way.

This stuff does not.

 

[Tincatinker]

I’ve used trains from the uk to Spain a few times (can’t find the Virtuous One emoji). A pleasant, slow journey with the options of lunch in Paris, Bordeaux or Hendaye depending on timings and route. Shudderingly expensive compared to a short haul flight and, with the demise of sleeper trains not restful. Yet it’s often felt like a “true” adventure rather than the magic ping of international air travel. Places that are far away should take time to get to. I fully appreciate that if you’re traveling from the Southern Hemisphere or the far side of the pond it’s likely to feel like a long time anyway
I plant trees, often and wherever I can. This has nothing to do with carbon offsetting my travel. It’s what, IMO, we all who can should do.

 

[Marc S.]

Nothing wrong with such discussions between pilgrims on the Camino, but I find it to be very inappropriate in here.

I think this is the third time you claim this thread is inappropriate. Point taken. But maybe from now on you can just ignore this thread ? (so others who think it is an interesting issue can continue). Thanks.

 

[Gadflyparexcellence]

It's quite possible that a walk on the Camino for a month or even a few weeks more than offsets any carbon footprint involved in getting to Spain by air.

 

[David and Theresa]

No

 

[VNwalking]

It's quite possible that a walk on the Camino for a month or even a few weeks more than offsets any carbon footprint involved in getting to Spain by air.

Good point. Quite possible depending on how we live at home.

No.
See how that works ?

Yup. Perfect. Enough said, thank you.
Many of us care about this and want to continue discussing it. You clearly do not. We got it @JabbaPapa. So. You needn't continue to hammer us with your disapproval and disagreement. It won't change our minds, and gums up the discussion.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I think this is the third time you claim this thread is inappropriate. Point taken. But maybe from now on you can just ignore this thread ? (so others who think it is an interesting issue can continue). Thanks.

That just illustrates the divisive political nature of it.

I certainly do not shy away from political discussions generally, but this is one of the places where I wish to see them never.

 

[VNwalking]

That just illustrates the divisive political nature of it.

Just because we disagree doesn't make something political. You can try to make it so, but the rest of us would like to continue to share about this.

 

[wayfarer]

The choice is simple IMO, if you want to walk a Camino you have to travel to get to the start no matter where you live, unless you live on the Camino. If you are going to worry about your carbon footprint, stay at home or do as Tincatinker says and plant some trees.

 

[JabbaPapa]

It is not really possible to explain why this is political without making political discussion.

I don't want that.

Personal agreement or disagreement is something to helpfully and fruitfully explore on the Camino IMO. Amongst pilgrims.

 

[VNwalking]

And there is a Paris-Bayonne TGV.

It takes 3:57.
Investigating further, considering a journey from Brussels, there are lots of Thalys connections to Paris Nord. 1:22 gets you there.
All told, 5:19. Even with added time to get from one station to the other in Paris, that's probably less time than it'd take to get to the airport, check in, go through security, wait at the gate, fly, and get to from Bayonne from Biarritz.

The lower carbon footprint makes the option that much better.

 

[VNwalking]

I don't want that.

Then why continue to disagree? Please, just enjoy Viana. The rest of us would love to be there too.

 

[JabbaPapa]

There's a Paris to Lourdes train as well, or you can stop at Pau IIRC.

I think there are plans to reinstate the Paris to Hendaye night train via Bordeaux and Bayonne as a regular line.

 

[Tincatinker]

So what is the "carbon footprint" of the glass of white wine that my table neighbour is taking right now in Viana ?

Calculable though complex. The wine itself will depend on the cultivation, harvesting methods and processing. The carbon cost of the bottle it came in will almost certainly be higher than that of the wine itself but potentially reduced if the bottle is washed and refilled rather than recycled. The transport cost of getting that bottle to the consumer is potentially the highest of all the aggregates. If it’s locally produced and distributed then the carbon cost is minimized. If you’re drinking Australian wine in Tromso, start planting trees

 

[JabbaPapa]

Calculable though complex. The wine itself will depend on the cultivation, harvesting methods and processing. The carbon cost of the bottle it came in will almost certainly be higher than that of the wine itself but potentially reduced if the bottle is washed and refilled rather than recycled. The transport cost of getting that bottle to the consumer is potentially the highest of all the aggregates. If it’s locally produced and distributed then the carbon cost is minimized. If you’re drinking Australian wine in Tromso, start planting trees

See, this is what I mean. It's ideological. I really wish nobody had taken that rhetorical question seriously.

 

[VNwalking]

I think there are plans to reinstate the Paris to Hendaye night train via Bordeaux and Bayonne as a regular line

This would be wonderful news!

If you’re drinking Australian wine in Tromso, start planting trees

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

I have done a lot of driving in Europe in the last few years, more because once you have a car you can't just abandon it, than because I especially want to drive. I have driven from England (where I bought the car) to Ireland to collect all my worldly goods thence to Greece. Then I drove to Latvia where I was studying, then back to Greece and on the ferry to Crete, then in October from Crete to Spain via Athens for the visa!

I like travelling by train, but sometimes it's difficult to find the right connections and driving is the quickest and easiest. I will be flying home to Crete, via a few days in Sofia, for Christmas, because there if I drove I would spend most of the holidays driving.

I don't do carbon offsetting as such, but wherever I am I try to buy local and reduce my impact in other ways, eg rarely buying new things.

 

[peregrina2000]

Let's just take your question. And my answer.

No.

You’ve given your answer, @JabbaPapa.

For the life of me, I can’t understand why you want to derail this thread. You don’t do anything to reduce your carbon footprint. Fine. End of discussion. End of your involvement with the thread.

Others would like to hear from forum members about any actions they take to reduce their carbon footprint. That’s all — no one is asking about whether climate change is real, about whether our actions are causing climate change. YOU are the one making it political, so please stop.

 

[rappahannock_rev]

This thread is going nowhere good, Please shut it down.

 

[Marc S.]

This thread is going nowhere good, Please shut it down.

I think it is going quite well, with the occasional hickup, so I hope the thread stays alive.
Is it really so hard to just ignore a thread when you are not interested in the subject ?

 

[ivar]

I think it is going well as well. I don’t think it is an issue if zero carbon footprint, more thinking of ways to lower it… if you have two ways of going to Madrid… why not take the train. It is not zero carbon footprint, but less than the plane.

 

[henrythedog]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

It’s never really crossed my mind. I suppose in defence of my air travel I’d offer that my car’s off the road for a month.

 

[Jodean]

Living in Frankfurt, there is a flight or train option. My last Camino, flew to Barcelona at 07:30, sat at the train station for a long time, then took a train to Pamplona, arriving at 19:20. All in all, 12 hours travel time. In 2018, took a train from Frankfurt to Paris at 06:00, which is almost 4 hours. 2 hour wait and trained to Bayonne for another 4 hours. Train to SJPDP, came in an hour and that took another hour. About 12 hours total. Will be doing this again in April.

Sitting in a train is so much more enjoyable than flying. Has larger comfortable seats, a dining car, a WC that you can turn around in, and cool scenery whizzing past you. The time saved by flying is negligible. Trains go to city centers and there is no 1.5-3 hour wait before a flight. Add in another hour at the destination to deplane, plus the flight time and then training or bus from the airport to the city, and that quick flight becomes hours of travel.

I also avoid buying plastic water bottles, even though it is common to use them the whole Camino. If all 400,000 pilgrims that walked into Santiago only bought 1 bottle, that is still 400,000 plastic bottles. A pretty big mountain, yes? The cheap, disposable ponchos are a problem too, as well as all those plastic bags used to carry out TP each day. If women would use an FUD and some sort of washable material, this would cut down on a lot of wasted plastic.

Not sure what politics has to do with conserving our natural resources and being kind to the earth.

 

[Barbara]

I'm seeing a lot of sensible and relatively easy solutions to implement, so thank you. Those of you paying for carbon offset, what are the practicalities of doing it, and how do you calculate the amount, please?

 

[Bob P]

No,,, because if we all stayed home to not make any "carbon footprint" only a much smaller number of people will even have access to the Camino.

Get rid of all travel and all the dang people and the planet will do just fine!
I live on 20+ acres, grow most of my food and there are thousands of trees on my property. All you people living in the "little boxes" are the problem.

Seriously, it's political.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Quite interesting to me! I used to fly a lot as I was sent by work to about 7-10 locations per year. I grew sick of it (and I've been enamoured of flight travel since I was a wee child flying between divorced parents in 2 countries half a world apart).
I've reduced my work to half time... and will be out entirely in an another 3 years. My work that used to require flight can now be handled in virtual meetings, and so I do that.
I've cut out about 50 flights per time-period in which I manage to make a Camino trip, so there's that... I also do not know how to drive, and the frivolity of driving (at least where I live and people take the car to get a litre of milk less than a KM from home) seems to be the more crucial quotidian problem.
So... yes, I think about it, and no, I don't try to find boat passage as an alternative. I have neither sea-legs nor time. Alas.
But if I am very lucky.... my next flight to Europe will be my last one and I will be settling there.

 

[VNwalking]

This thread is going nowhere good, Please shut it down.

No please don't.
Because I want to know the answer to Barbara's good question.

Those of you paying for carbon offset, what are the practicalities of doing it, and how do you calculate the amount, please?

In understandable English, not pages of math.

 

[pepi]

Honestly, it's political from the outset.

And there is no way that I would contribute to discussion, principally because not only are other forums more suitable for this sort of discussion, but also because it is hard to see how this might in any way be useful to the Pilgrims of the Way of Saint James for the preparation of their pilgrimages to the tomb of the Apostle.

What has such business as a carbon footprint to do with my foot pilgrimage from home and back along these ancient Ways ?

Each pilgrim of course has his own thoughts on these questions, and they are exactly the sort of matter that can be fruitful to discuss on these pilgrim ways, but I cannot see any benefit to the forum nor to pilgrims in discussing these politics in here.

I beg to differ. The OP's perhaps is a bit of a clickbait question, but as hard-core walkers, the eco-footprint issue surely has crossed all our minds one time or another, latest when marching along a highway with the cars passing. Having taken the train from Barcelona to Pamplona last time certainly has not affected my enormous eco-footprint – since I flew from home to Barcelona first – but you know what? Riding that train made me somewhat feel good. (And for sure, I would never do the backward yo-yo-ing from Pamplona to SJPdP, ever). Once the planned new night TGV connection from Zurich to Barcelona is in service, I will use it.
Now, of course, most non-Spanish Peregrinos simply have no choice but to fly, but if we all keep up our awareness, we may start the first tiny baby step toward a better environment. You, @JabbaPapa, are setting an example with your home-door-to-door Caminos, so I don't understand why you regard the issue as being political. I certainly see a connection between Peregrinos and ecology.

 

[Albertagirl]

I consider this question every time I buy my plane ticket to Spain and see that the airline is offering an additional charge as carbon offset. I do not trust the airline, but I do not buy the carbon offset largely to save money. It costs enough to buy an air ticket to Spain from western Canada. An option I have considered: taking a boat from Europe to Texas on an end of season transfer, then flying on to Calgary (the boat is transferring between the Mediterranean and the Caribbean). I could not see how this would serve as a carbon offset, but I didn't look into it too seriously because the boats which I found were travelling at times which would cut short my possibility of walking long caminos in Spain. I never considered taking the train across Canada then flying a shorter distance to Europe; Canadian rail travel is prohibitively expensive.
I do not own and have never owned a car, nor do I drive. I do not consider this to be an adequate excuse for ignoring the carbon offset when I fly. However, my local transport at home is largely by the Calgary Ctrain, rail transit powered by wind energy. I have no idea whether I am doing more than my share to damage the world environment. If I took it very seriously I could walk from home for about five minutes to join the Great Trail, which would take me on foot or canoe via historical routes from one side of Canada to the other. But it would not be a camino and I am now too old to attempt such a journey.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I beg to differ. The OP's perhaps is a bit of a clickbait question, but as hard-core walkers, the eco-footprint issue surely has crossed all our minds one time or another, latest when matching along a highway with the cars passing. Having taken the train from Barcelona to Pamplona last time certainly has not affected my enormous eco-footprint – since I flew from home to Barcelona first – but you known what? Riding that train made me somewhat feel good. (And for sure, I would never do the backward yo-yoing from Pamplona to SJPdP, ever). Once the planned new high-speed night train connection from Zurich to Barcelona is in service, I will use it.
Now, of course, most non-Spanish Peregrinos simply have no choice than to fly, but if we all keep up our awareness, we may start the first tiny baby step toward a better environment. You, @JabbaPapa, are setting an example with your home-door to door Caminos, so I don't understand why you regard the issue as being political. I certainly see a connection between Peregrinos and eccology.

That is an interesting response, so thank you.

But I would view environmental issues to be about pollution, not hypotheticals.

 

[VNwalking]

Climate change is hardly hypothetical. And it affects us all, even people who think it's fake or exaggerated.

most non-Spanish Peregrinos simply have no choice than to fly,

Well, people in Europe could be taking the train, right?

flew to Barcelona at 07:30, sat at the train station for a long time, then took a train to Pamplona, arriving at 19:20. All in all, 12 hours travel time. In 2018, took a train from Frankfurt to Paris at 06:00, which is almost 4 hours. 2 hour wait and trained to Bayonne for another 4 hours. Train to SJPDP, came in an hour and that took another hour. About 12 hours total

QED. Great to know that the time-saving aspect of flying short distances is non-existant.

People who fly long distances can't avoid it. So I'd love it if someone who knows could point me to a website with information about carbon offsets. How they're calculated, and how to spot the scammy ones.

plastic

Oy. This. It's not something we tend to consider in this context. But clearly we should.

Not sure what politics has to do with conserving our natural resources and being kind to the earth.

I don't understand either. But, whatever.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

It is not politics unless we make it politics… it is almost a yes or no question. Is this something you are thinking of? Yes or no.

In my own life, "yes", I think I can make small differences. If I plan to walk another Camino and have the ability to walk, then my answer is "no". The Europeans will be the only "camino winners" here if flying is eventually banned for a majority. Buses, trains, and cruiseships all use "some" fossil fuels, too.

 

[Tandem Graham]

As some posters have observed, it is difficult to travel at all with a zero carbon impact. But it is perfectly possible to be conscious of our carbon impact, and make practical decisions to reduce it, or offset parts of it.
I don't like flying - that's partly due to claustrophobia, which for me isn't triggered by trains or boats. But I also feel a certain amount of carbon guilt when I do fly.
My third motivation relates to the nature of Camino - a slow, mindful journey. Train or boat travel is faster than walking or cycling but still seems like 'real' analogue travel, compared to teleportation-like hops between identikit airports! A better preparation and postscript for the Camino itself.
I appreciate that some journeys are impractical without flying, so I hold my nose and suppress my fears and fly, while seeking to ration those occasions and take counterbalancing measures, small though they may be.

As to the very question being politically controversial? In UK and Europe, climate change, and reducing our contribution to it, seems much less controversial amongst the under 30's (who will live with what's left of our planet) than the over 60's, and much less controversial now than it was 20 years ago.
30 years ago, the effect of passive smoking was considered a political subject and even twenty years ago this forum might have legitimately addressed questions about where to find camino restaurants where one didn't eat while inhaling secondhand smoke. So it's good that those who share climate concerns may discuss ways of alleviating them, while still walking Caminos, on this forum without being shutdown by those who don't share the same concerns.

Happy for some or all of this post to be ruled out of bounds by the moderators, in the furtherance of peace and harmony!

 

[Former member 59618]

I'm pretty sure we can have a discussion about the implications and affects of world travel without the knee-jerk "divisive politics" comments, which to me is actually is sort of mind-blowing that that would be someone's first thought/reaction when reading the OP's post.

The OP didn't ask anyone to dive headfirst into political party affiliation or ask for a debate on current policies, just for reflection on one's personal choice and role.

 

[VNwalking]

Train or boat travel is faster than walking or cycling but still seems like 'real' analogue travel, compared to teleportation-like hops between identikit airports! A better preparation and postscript for the Camino itself.

This is a wonderful point, that has nothing to do with climate, but which supports the kind of slow travel that's more climate neutral.
There is a particularly nasty kind of 'whiplash' that happens if you get on a plane after moving at a walking pace for a month. Even a train feels dizzyingly fast.

 

[Bradypus]

Places that are far away should take time to get to.

My wife travelled overland from the UK to visit family in Thailand and China. And then back home again. Twice. It did take a bit longer than flying (and was much more expensive!).

 

[C clearly]

if we all keep up our awareness, we may start the first tiny baby step toward a better environment.

This is my approach. I do think about the topic, and try to make changes in my daily life. I am not ready yet to give up long-distance travel, so I just have to feel guilty about that. I am suspicious of the carbon offset schemes, but haven't really looked into them.

 

[martin1ws]

I'm seeing a lot of sensible and relatively easy solutions to implement, so thank you. Those of you paying for carbon offset, what are the practicalities of doing it, and how do you calculate the amount, please?

Calculate amount: Search for "CO2 flight calculator" with your favourite search engine, e. g.:

flightemissionscalculator.com - Domain Name For Sale | Dan.com

I found a great domain name for sale on Dan.com. Check it out!

flightemissionscalculator.com

Practicalities of doing it: I would not do it with the airline, I think there is not the best cost-effect-ratio.
Here is for example a link to a general guide and projects ("Carbon offsetting directly"):

The beginner's guide to carbon offsetting your flights

A beginner’s guide to carbon offsetting flights for air travellers, including what carbon offsets are, how they work, how to choose the best offset scheme and ways to reduce your environmental impact.

www.ontheluce.com

I use atmosfair... but this a German project.

 

[Former member 102963]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

I fly at least 50-60 times a year and am relatively relaxed about it, but I guess I internally trade it off with the fact that I don’t eat a lot of meat and don’t drive a car! No idea how that nets out but I am very proud of not driving! I wish I could give up meet as I know how bad that is but that’s tough!!

 

[C clearly]

This thread might be the one that very quickly pushes us over 1 million posts!

 

[geraldkelly]

It's an interesting question and one I think about whenever I travel.

I travel Spain to Ireland twice a year. Last time I flew and paid €35. If I was to take the train it would cost about 10 times that. If it wasn't such a big difference I'd prefer an overland route. Years ago I took the Paris - Madrid sleeper several times, that route no longer exists, but hopefully it'll come back, in central Europe some overnight trains have returned.

The new ferry routes from northern Spain to Ireland may also change the equation.

But realistically, if they want us to choose low emissions options they have to do something about this price disparity. (eg. tax aviation fuel and spend the money raised developing overland alternatives - sorry for the bit of politics!)

 

[Former member 102963]

I

My wife travelled overland from the UK to visit family in Thailand and China. And then back home again. Twice. It did take a bit longer than flying (and was much more expensive!).

It can be fairly cheap! London to Beijing can take approx 9 days and cost £800.

 

[Bradypus]

It can be fairly cheap! London to Beijing can take approx 9 days and cost £800.

Does that include the cost of visas for Belarus, Russia and China each way? Or travel from Beijing to Kunming and then on through Laos into Thailand? And the accommodation costs for the days en route between trains or buses? And food for all the travel days? I think you may find the total cost of long-distance overland travel is much greater than the headline ticket cost!

 

[Former member 102963]

Does that include the cost of visas for Belarus, Russia and China each way? Or travel from Beijing to Kunming and then on through Laos into Thailand? And the accommodation costs for the days en route between trains or buses? And food for all the travel days? I think you may find the total cost of long-distance overland travel is much greater than the headline ticket cost!

Can’t exactly remember what I paid. Think it was circa £600 on direct train to Beijing! Didn’t go Thailand. Food was very cheap on train but yes forgot about visa not forgetting Mongolia) so I guess pushes it up to £1k ish!

 

[Anamiri]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

One of the disadvantages of living so far away from Europe is the long flight there, incurring fossil fuel consumption and pollution. So I tend to make my trip longer as frequent flights are not desirable affordable or tolerable. (I cant afford first class). Air travel is really the only practical option from here.
At home, I'm self sufficient with my garden produce, drive a hybrid car (full electric isn't practical where I live), buy local as much as possible, plant trees at home and in the community (the section at home is 2 acres so I have a lot of scope there). I am a knitting designer, using local fibre as much as possible, and have a 'mend' capability - a dying art I think. We live almost off the grid, it will take us a few more years to be completely off grid.
My desire to travel to Europe is such a contradiction to my normal life, but I know I need to travel while I can, have my health, and can afford it.
But I am aware of the impact such long flights have and carry guilt about that, I guess that at least when I get there I'm walking for a month.

 

[Kathor1]

It would be an interesting journey. It's a pity there are so few sleeper trains. Would you take time to visit elsewhere on the way?

It would be a +/- 1800 km train journey. Nothing fixed yet but I would probably break up the trip and stay overnight somewhere, most likely in Spain. I've flown Paris (Orly airport) to Biarritz and/or to Bordeaux in the past but I have also taken the train in the past for connections from Paris to the South West. I am unlikely to fly such short distances in future. Same goes for say Madrid<-->Santiago.

As far as I am concerned, forum members and threads have been really useful in providing information about the development of the high speed train network in Spain - I would probably not have been aware of it otherwise. Knowing what other people do and what I had not been aware of or had not considered is helpful in broadening the range of options that I can make use of.

Same goes for buses. I had never been very keen on long-distance bus trips but hearing about the experience of others on the forum made me consider an ALSA bus trip from Madrid to Burgos and I was so pleased with it that I/we made several similar trips afterwards.

 

[Former member 102963]

We all know that travelling across the world to
walk a Camino is wrong for the environment, doesn’t help with things like Covid, etc, and many consider it very selfish. So you can either take that on board or press ahead!

 

[Barbara]

My wife travelled overland from the UK to visit family in Thailand and China. And then back home again. Twice. It did take a bit longer than flying (and was much more expensive!).

I've done that. The visas cost as much as the fare. But it was fun.

 

[Former member 102963]

I've done that. The visas cost as much as the fare. But it was fun.

Yes agree! I love train travel. 10 days or so
London to Beijing and 10 hours to fly home Chengdu to London!

 

[VNwalking]

As to Camino in Spain, I've not been to Spain since 2019 or so. If and when I go again, I am likely to travel from a more northern part of Europe directly to Santiago. I have been looking at options to go by train ... it will be a first for this distance and a long journey. Much longer than a flight, whether direct or via Madrid, and in all likelihood more expensive, too.

Brussels to Bayonne on TGV and Thalys trains, Bayonne to Hendaye/Irun on a local train, Hendaye/Irun to Santiago via San Sebastian/Tolosa/Vitoria/Burgos/Leon/Ponferrada/Monforte de Lemos/Ourense. I've done the latter bit in reverse and it's a fabulous journey.

 

[Barbara]

I love trains. I got as far as Tsipaw in Myanmar, from Poitiers via Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Mongolia, China, Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand. Some river boats and a couple of buses were also involved, many youth hostels, and some small hotels and a lot of street food at strange hours of the day. I discovered the joys of free entry to some otherwise expensive cultural venues simply by being over sixty, as well as some very cheap train fares . 21 days including several side trips and stop overs before visiting the grand babies in Thailand. That was in 2017. For some reason China gave me a two year multiple entry visa so I went back in 2018 to travel on some more trains. Some of them averaging over 300kph. Others stopping every hour for ten hours to go not very far. Happy days.
Getting back to Spain, if you aren't in a hurry there is a narrow gauge train all the way along the coast from A Coruña to the French border. Two days and a few changes. Revisit the Norte on your way home. Take your bike on it, no need to put it in a box. Don't forget to buy your over 60 card in Spain if you qualify. Makes fast trains a lot cheaper. Book in advance on your phone to save more money, no need to print the ticket, it's in the app. Unlike Myanmar, where they write them out by hand.

 

[dick bird]

There is a difference between the fact that climate is variable and some hypotheticals about why this is so.

And a discussion on that issue is a scientific one, not political.

 

[dick bird]

This thread is going nowhere good, Please shut it down.

We are keeping an eye on it, but if you look at the posts that follow yours I think you will find they are civilised, to the point and constructive.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?

My “implication” is one in eight billion. I’m not impressed by those odds, so, no.

 

[jwcurry]

I suspect that some pilgrims feel that minimizing their carbon impact with respect to travel is as internally important as the desire to feel closer to God as a primary reason to embark on a pilgrimage.

So, it's a good question.

-Jerry

 

[Peregrinopaul]

And I’m reflecting that my simplistic post may invite exactly the sort of reaction that @JabbaPapa is talking about.

 

[RJM]

As a whole it's impossible to be carbon zero or even carbon low on any trip anywhere no matter what one does. Our mere daily existence on earth causes fuel of some kind to be burned, emissions to be released and living creatures to die.
I don't fool myself by thinking by using one less plastic bottle or utensils I'm saving the environment. I've come to the conclusion we humans are an unstoppable juggernaut when it comes to destroying the environment. Right now my being on this forum on a device uses fossil fuel to run a plant to provide electric power. Anyone reading this is doing the same. I go to a cafe on the Camino and buy a cup of coffee more fuel is used to prepare it and to provide utilities to the cafe I'm in. Not to mention what it took to get that coffee to Spain.
Anyway, despite being a realist and knowing our planet is in all probability doomed, I still loathe buying bottled water and see it as an unnecessary waste.

 

[natcire]

This is exactly something I have been tossing about in my mind and heart for a year or more now. I have so many Caminos in my bucket list when I retire and the number of flights I need to take has me re-think how I can reduce the number of flights. One thought is to 'live' in Europe and use the train. Definitely, not able to take a train across the Atlantic.

 

[Robo]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

An interesting question.
We do what we do at work.
We 'offset' our travel.
Generally by planting trees through a recognised charity.

It goes roughly like this........the short version. We double offset.

“One tree can absorb as much as 21 kg of carbon dioxide per year and can sequester 1 tonne of carbon dioxide by the time it reaches 44 years old.”

Assuming it only gets to 10 years old before somebody cuts it down, and assuming that a tree absorbs 80% less in its first 10 years of growth (from sapling to tree) than it would when it was fully mature. We calculated that we need to plant 18 trees to absorb 1 tonne of CO2 emissions.

Online research seems to indicate that each passengers share of emissions for a return flight from Sydney to Melbourne (3 hours flight time) is between 200 and 300 kgs. So we’ll pick 300 kgs. That makes 100 kgs for each 1 hour we fly. And if we are to double offset, that makes 200 kgs of emissions we need to offset per hour of flight.

OK, back to the trees. So to offset each hour of flight, we need to plant 3.6 trees. Rounded up to 4.

[the rest of the detail I have deleted for fear of being accused of virtue signalling, but you get the idea]

 

[Kanga]

Yes, I do think about it. My flights from Sydney release large amounts of carbon, but other means of travel from Australia are not feasible for me - much as I'd love to travel overland or by sea. I've looked at carbon offsets. The Australian Consumers Association website (which I think is generally reliable) says that offsets that avoid emissions through energy efficiency, or replace fossil fuel based energy with renewable energy are the most effective, with forestry projects (the usual carbon offset choice) ranked last.

I always travel economy and take comfort in reading that a World Bank study found that a Business Class seat has a footprint three times that of those of us up the back - and First Class can be nine times as carbon intensive. So being poor is definitely a virtue.

It also helps to travel by direct flights, with as few take offs and landings as possible, and to travel light, as every extra gram of weight costs in terms of fuel. For a peregrina travelling light is no problem.

Airbus has an electrification program and now has a test facility dedicated to alternative propulsion systems. Boeing has invested millions into Wisk Aero, a flying air taxi. The race is on. Probably not relevant to me, but there is hope for the future.

 

[Sharonih]

Those of you who fly or drive to and from your starting point and back, how do you feel about your implication in global warming?
Do you do anything to balance this, or do you consider that there isn't a problem? Would you consider that the spiritual benefits outweigh all other considerations? Have you thought about other options?
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, just wondering if this is a part of your decision tree. Before you ask, yes, I do fly but not where other options are available.

No, as where I live you have to travel to get anywhere, I know you are able to buy carbon offsets if you wish though I never had. Though this wasn’t the reason I own 25 acres of raw land if which I leave most of it alone and guess what, trees grow extremely well and quickly there so I guess you could call that my carbon offset. I would like to say you did bring up a valid point and for some that may be the reason they choose not to the Camino.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I'm sorry, I was in a really foul mood last night, and I apologise.

 

[pepi]

I'm sorry, I was in a really foul mood last night, and I apologise.

Hey, you've contributed some spice to a potentially dull thread

 

[Former member 104756]

Good on you @JabbaPapa I often think it's easy to stay stuck in our view - the harder thing to do is to shift position, especially in a public forum. Good for you for your honesty ... hope today is a brighter day.

 

[Harland2019]

My short answer is "no". I do walk to the shops rather than drive c. 4 miles round trip and I grow fruit & veg on my allotment. However, my reasoning has nothing to do with reducing my carbon footprint or cost as I like walking and the exercise and comradeship at the allotment.

 

[dick bird]

I'm sorry, I was in a really foul mood last night, and I apologise.

Apology accepted. You are not a bad person, far from it. Having read your other posts I can understand why you might not have been in the greatest of spirits. But can I suggest that next time you are 'in a foul mood', you write down what you think, store it somewhere and then look at it next morning in the cold light of day and decide if you still want to send the proverbial letter to the Times? Keep strong and buen camino.

 

[Barbara]

I'm sorry, I was in a really foul mood last night, and I apologise.

Thank you. I'm glad you said that. I didn't mean to upset you.

 

[Bristle Boy]

A thoughtful thread and thinking out loud,
I was lucky...most "baby boomers" are.
I had a mother way before her time. She taught me a lot about the environment and the need to protect. Her musings and things she used to impart to me seemed laughable at the time and were simplistic to a young and simplistic boy.
I remember the "rag and bone" man who used to come round on his horse and cart collecting all the things he could recycle and make a living from.
I remember all the drinks bottles that had deposits that we, as little children, used to collect and get our three old pence for returning. Four bottles would get you a new one to slake your thirst and reward your endeavours.
I am a consumer..we all are.
I just think that how we go forward lessons can be learnt from the past and are easily forgotten.
I think that this thread is great....thank you.

 

[Sirage]

Has anyone done the calculations of the carbon footprint of their lives at home, and then the difference of a doing a Camino? What is the carbon footprint during the Camino vs the footprint at home?

For Australians like me the obvious factor is the air flight which would not apply to Europeans. For Europeans train travel is inferred from the above comments to be smaller, but how much? Through France the TGV are electrically powered largely by nuclear power stations - not marginally carbon producing but is that a good idea? Other countries vary - perhaps some renewables. It is messy.

I suspect few have any idea although some might. I lead a fairly virtuous "carbon life" (calculated by instinct) at home and if I do a Camino next year I will give no thought at all to its carbon footprint - None. Sailing boats stopped their services to Australia some time ago

I expect to have a good time and contribute to the Spanish economy in poorer regions that may benefit. But I have no idea if they will use the money I give them for food and lodging in a carbon-friendly way.

Does Spain care about the carbon footprint of all the tourism it actively promotes? Where does this question lead? Avoid all long distance tourism and just live locally?

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Has anyone done the calculations of the carbon footprint of their lives at home, and then the difference of a doing a Camino? What is the carbon footprint during the Camino vs the footprint at home?

For Australians like me the obvious factor is the air flight which would not apply to Europeans. For Europeans train travel is inferred from the above comments to be smaller, but how much? Through France the TGV are electrically powered largely by nuclear power stations - not marginally carbon producing but is that a good idea? Other countries vary - perhaps some renewables. It is messy.

I suspect few have any idea although some might. I lead a fairly virtuous "carbon life" (calculated by instinct) at home and if I do a Camino next year I will give no thought at all to its carbon footprint - None. Sailing boats stopped their services to Australia some time ago

I expect to have a good time and contribute to the Spanish economy in poorer regions that may benefit. But I have no idea if they will use the money I give them for food and lodging in a carbon-friendly way.

Does Spain care about the carbon footprint of all the tourism it actively promotes? Where does this question lead? Avoid all long distance tourism and just live locally?

I did a carbon calculator and it said that the thing that had the highest impact in my lifestyle was "Education", however I have no idea how that was calculated, since they simply asked how much I spend on it.

 

[Kathor1]

Does Spain care about the carbon footprint of all the tourism it actively promotes? Where does this question lead? Avoid all long distance tourism and just live locally?

Like many others, I have my ways of justifying how and what I consume in the way of resources in general and energy resources in particular and why I do it the way I do. However, I refrained from including any of these considerations in my earlier comments for the simple reason that the question asked is about “what do you do personally in relation to flights to Spain (and perhaps also within Spain), if anything, as related to CO2 output.

And, btw and more generally, that a thing like CO2 output exists is presumably undisputed? The topic of this thread is not about whether CO2 output is globally too high or too low, who causes it, whether it is harmful and if so for whom and so on and so. Despite some attempts to lead the thread into this direction it has not happened and we are already approaching post #100. I am truly amazed about this degree of poster&thread discipline.

 

[Former member 102963]

I think most of us can only go an instinct and make ‘trade offs’ where we can. I fly a hell of a lot but balance that off by not driving and not eating too much meat. No idea where that ‘nets off’ That said living in Europe, and not driving in Europe is for many far easier than other continents. I have no knowledge of my footprint.

I think that the whole issue has ‘finally’ gone mainstream and companies willl now look at business travel for their staff, not just from an financial cost standpoint but from an environmental one too.

Assuming that staying is dorms is far better than private rooms?

Has anyone done the calculations of the carbon footprint of their lives at home, and then the difference of a doing a Camino? What is the carbon footprint during the Camino vs the footprint at home?

For Australians like me the obvious factor is the air flight which would not apply to Europeans. For Europeans train travel is inferred from the above comments to be smaller, but how much? Through France the TGV are electrically powered largely by nuclear power stations - not marginally carbon producing but is that a good idea? Other countries vary - perhaps some renewables. It is messy.

I suspect few have any idea although some might. I lead a fairly virtuous "carbon life" (calculated by instinct) at home and if I do a Camino next year I will give no thought at all to its carbon footprint - None. Sailing boats stopped their services to Australia some time ago

I expect to have a good time and contribute to the Spanish economy in poorer regions that may benefit. But I have no idea if they will use the money I give them for food and lodging in a carbon-friendly way.

Does Spain care about the carbon footprint of all the tourism it actively promotes? Where does this question lead? Avoid all long distance tourism and just live locally?

 

[timr]

A thoughtful thread and thinking out loud,
I was lucky...most "baby boomers" are.
I had a mother way before her time. She taught me a lot about the environment and the need to protect. Her musings and things she used to impart to me seemed laughable at the time and were simplistic to a young and simplistic boy.
I remember the "rag and bone" man who used to come round on his horse and cart collecting all the things he could recycle and make a living from.
I remember all the drinks bottles that had deposits that we, as little children, used to collect and get our three old pence for returning. Four bottles would get you a new one to slake your thirst and reward your endeavours.
I am a consumer..we all are.
I just think that how we go forward lessons can be learnt from the past and are easily forgotten.
I think that this thread is great....thank you.

We must be of similar age!
Same basic assumptions in suburban Liverpool in the fifties. And I too remember horse and cart connecting "recyclables" before we had heard that word.
But also the City Council bin lorry was horse drawn. We used to go out with a carrot. We didn't know then it should have been an organic carrot....but maybe they all were then?

 

[Harland2019]

We must be of similar age!
Same basic assumptions in suburban Liverpool in the fifties. And I too remember horse and cart connecting "recyclables" before we had heard that word.
But also the City Council bin lorry was horse drawn. We used to go out with a carrot. We didn't know then it should have been an organic carrot....but maybe they all were then?

Yes, we were encouraged to give old "stuff" to the rag and bone man as we got a goldfish!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I haven't read most of these longer posts because they will not apply to me. Unfortunately we have very few trains in the US and the same with our bus system. Both are extremely limited on where you can travel and how often they run, thus absolutely nowhere near the options available in Europe. If not living in a larger city a car is definitely necessary.

 

[J Willhaus]

Has anyone done the calculations of the carbon footprint of their lives at home, and then the difference of a doing a Camino? What is the carbon footprint during the Camino vs the footprint at home?

For Australians like me the obvious factor is the air flight which would not apply to Europeans. For Europeans train travel is inferred from the above comments to be smaller, but how much? Through France the TGV are electrically powered largely by nuclear power stations - not marginally carbon producing but is that a good idea? Other countries vary - perhaps some renewables. It is messy.

I suspect few have any idea although some might. I lead a fairly virtuous "carbon life" (calculated by instinct) at home and if I do a Camino next year I will give no thought at all to its carbon footprint - None. Sailing boats stopped their services to Australia some time ago

I expect to have a good time and contribute to the Spanish economy in poorer regions that may benefit. But I have no idea if they will use the money I give them for food and lodging in a carbon-friendly way.

Does Spain care about the carbon footprint of all the tourism it actively promotes? Where does this question lead? Avoid all long distance tourism and just live locally?

We have a new young teacher from Spain on a Fulbright Scholarship at my university. She says Spain has the most renewable energy projects in Europe and could have more, but the political environment is not always supportive.

 

[J Willhaus]

My husband and I had a conversation this week about what people used before plastics. Makes you think more about reusing things. So many things we discard without much thought, but my grandmother kept every glass jar and plastic container because we "might need it". One thing about the Camino is that you start to think about how many things can have multiple uses and you get by with much less when you must carry it!

 

[VNwalking]

Unfortunately we have very few trains in the US and the same with our bus system.

Very true, and a real pity.
So people from the States are stuck needing to take short flights to get to hub airports.

I just dug around a bit and found this chart, which surprised me. Short- and medium-haul flights are not the huge carbon culprits they're made to be, each accounting for a third of emissions.


That said, if all of us (who could do so) chose to take trains over those distances, there would be less of a market for aviation and more demand for trains, which are significantly less impactful across the board.

 

[Harland2019]

Walking the CF this year I saw some really good grapes in the supermarket. Keen to get locally grown grapes and make my wife envious I bought enough to last me a few days, on the second day I spotted that they were imported from Chile!

 

[Former member 102963]

I haven't read most of these longer posts because they will not apply to me. Unfortunately we have very few trains in the US and the same with our bus system. Both are extremely limited on where you can travel and how often they run, thus absolutely nowhere near the options available in Europe. If not living in a larger city a car is definitely necessary.

Yes of course! It’s really tough for North Americans… I guess a bit easier in the coastal cities, Chicago, etc but when I have visited states like Texas and Florida I wonder how folks manage!!

 

[Bristle Boy]

Walking the CF this year I saw some really good grapes in the supermarket. Keen to get locally grown grapes and make my wife envious I bought enough to last me a few days, on the second day I spotted that they were imported from Chile!

This does make any effort to make a Camino carbon neutral that much more difficult.