Can you get a compostela if you didn't walk the last leg?

[caminocrazy81]

Hi All,

We are planning on walking the camino later this year with our 3 year old. My question is as he won't have technically walked the entirety of the last leg on his own, he will have been pushed a portion of it in a push chair, can he still get a compostela? Are there any exceptions made for situations like this? Not that it would stop us at all - I'm merely curious. I think it would be a wonderful thing for him to have for the future and hopefully it would inspire his sense of adventure

Thanks,
Brooke

 

[dougfitz]

You might wish to consult the Pilgrim's Office website. They have a section on the awarding of a compostella to children who travel with their parents.

 

[caminocrazy81]

You might wish to consult the Pilgrim's Office website. They have a section on the awarding of a compostella to children who travel with their parents.

That's really helpful. Thanks.

 

[AJ]

I seem to recall that when I did the Amigo gig in 2013 a child was refused a compostela because they were too young, below age for confirmation I think. I may be mistaken.

 

[grayland]

Maybe JohnnieWalker can weigh in and advise the Pilgrim Office rules regarding small children.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Pilgrim Office rules regarding small children.

Children walking the Camino: Children who have made the pilgrimage with parents, or in a group, and who have an understanding of the religious and spiritual nature of the Camino may also receive a Compostela. However if they are not yet old enough a certificate can be provided which bears the child’s name. In the case of very young children their names can be inscribed on the Compostela of the accompanying adult. If you have any questions about this please ask in the Pilgrims’ Office.

 

[dougfitz]

It seems the issue will be whether whoever is dealing with this does or doesn't believe that a three year old can 'have an understanding of the religious and spiritual nature of the Camino''. It appears that a younger child would still be issued a certificate of completion.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Well, parental pressure on the soccer coach can result in more playing time, so why wouldn't that also work with the Pilgrim Office?

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Children walking the Camino: Children who have made the pilgrimage with parents, or in a group, and who have an understanding of the religious and spiritual nature of the Camino may also receive a Compostela. However if they are not yet old enough a certificate can be provided which bears the child’s name. In the case of very young children their names can be inscribed on the Compostela of the accompanying adult. If you have any questions about this please ask in the Pilgrims’ Office.

Falcon correctly quotes the policy of the Cathedral which is published on the Pilgrims' Office website. The guidance given to staff is to enquire if the child has reached the age for "first communion" - the age the church takes as when a child has an understanding of spiritual concepts. For this reason Compostelas are refused to children even when all others in the family receive one. That is one of the reasons why the new style certificate was introduced which IMHO is indistinguishable from the Compostela. Before shooting the messenger may I say I personally disagree with this divisive policy and I think that far too much is made of the "rules " for obtaining a Compostela.

 

[colinPeter]

..... Before shooting the messenger may I say I personally disagree with this divisive policy and I think that far too much is made of the "rules " for obtaining a Compostela.

With respect, I find it hard to believe that "far too much" can be made of the 3 "rules ".

• You need to have made the pilgrimage for religious reasons or for a similar motivation such as a vow.
• You need to have walked or travelled on horseback at least the last 100kms, or cycled the last 200kms, to arrive at the tomb of the Apostle in the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela.
• You should collect at least two sellos (stamps) each day on your credencial. This will usually be where you sleep and one other place such as a Church, ayuntamiento, café etc. You must ensure that you do this at least in the last 100 kms from the Cathedral of Santiago if you are walking or on horseback and 200 kms if you are travelling by bicycle

Seems fairly straight foward and uncomplicated to my way of thinking.

Buen Camino
Colin

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Yes these are the current rules introduced by the Cathedral some 20 years ago following centuries of pilgrims who arrived in Santiago by whatever means from whatever distance receiving the Compostela. The context of my comment was the prospect of a child not receiving a Compostela because they had not reached "the age of reason" in the Church's definition (which differs from country to country) when other members of the family who also walked with them had received it.

 

[colinPeter]

Well, I would think that someone has to make the decision, is to be issued to 12 yrs olds, or to 6yrs olds, or to 1 yr olds?
Afterall, seeing that it is the "Church's" Compostela, I would think it reasonable that they be allowed to make some sought of adjudication.

 

[AJ]

Yes these are the current rules introduced by the Cathedral some 20 years ago following centuries of pilgrims who arrived in Santiago by whatever means from whatever distance receiving the Compostela.

John: any idea why the rule was introduced?

 

[JohnnieWalker]

John: any idea why the rule was introduced?

There are a number of studies of the history of the Camino which make reference to this controversial rule. For example Nancy Frey makes mention of it in her PhD thesis published as a book Pilgrim Stories On and Off the Road to Santiago: Journeys along an ancient way in modern Spain. Historically the Compostela was issued to those who made the journey to venerate the tomb of Saint James in "pietatis causa" - for a pious cause. There was never any question of it having to be a physical journey of any prescribed kind or any length. Eduardo Chemin in his PhD thesis Pilgrimage in a Secular Age traces the growth in the popularity of the pilgrimage. Over the 1980's a trickle of pilgrims receiving the Compostela grew slightly each year. By 1992 just under 10,000 compostelas were issued in the entire year. However in preparation for the Holy Year of 1993 both the Church and Local Authorities realised the potential of the Camino as an economic (and hopefully spiritual!) force. For the first time there was planned investment in preparation and marketing. The result was that in the Holy Year 1993 numbers rose by a factor of 10 to almost 100,000 pilgrims. The annual growth has been exponential every since.

Before 1993 there was no dedicated Pilgrims' Office. For some time Compostelas were issued by the Office of the Archicofradia of Santiago in the Plaza Quintana. Before that pilgrims went into the sacristy, were asked no questions and got their Compostela. Walter Starkie's book published in 1957 The Road to Santiago Pilgrims of St James narrates his journey, walking, by bus, by train.

The Chapter of Canons of the Cathedral appointed one of their number as Director of Pilgrimage. Don Jaime Rodriguez Garcia held the post for more than 15 years. He moved the office to the Casa Del Dean in Rua do Vilar number 1 where it remained for 20 years. He engaged a number of staff as donations started to flow into the Cathedral. To control the numbers they could cope and in the face of a growing number of pilgrims using car and buses, he introduced some rules: the 100 kms rule, the rule about children below the age of consent, the requirement for the 100 kms rule to end at the tomb of the apostle, the requirement that the last 100 kms is completed on the same route etc.

The commentators note that this of course has led to a huge growth in numbers from Sarria - some would say to the point where that route is at saturation point in terms of beds. Many pilgrim associations want the Cathedral to abandon the 100 kms rule because this would be more historically authentic and would help relieve the pressure and stop the race for beds from Sarria. However the pundits also point out that Sarria is within Galicia and the government of Galicia wants to encourage more tourism and is also a major funder of the Cathedral therefore change may prove difficult.

Regards

John

 

[AJ]

Many pilgrim associations want the Cathedral to abandon the 100 kms rule because this would be more historically authentic...

Thanks John.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Comsidering this is about having completed a pilgrimage, I cannot see how a person who has not reached the age of reason, and cannot possibly understand the meaning of this walk, let alone have made an effort to walk towards Santiago, would be deserving of a compostela.

Ironically, I once heard someone mention you would be better off saying you did not walk with "good" intentions so you would get the "prettier" certificate. Make the distance one ugly and watch the numbers dwindel on the Camino

 

[wawpdx]

Comsidering this is about having complrted a pilgrimage, I cannot see how a person who has not reached the age of reason, and cannot possibly understand the meanibg os this walk, let alone have made an effort to walk towards Santiago, would be deserving of a compostela.

Maybe it should just be a set minimum age. I'm pretty old and I certainly don't feel I fully understand the meaning of this walk -- in my own life or anyone else's. That complexity is part of the beauty of it.

 

[colinPeter]

Maybe it should just be a set minimum age. I'm pretty old and I certainly don't feel I fully understand the meaning of this walk -- in my own life or anyone else's. That complexity is part of the beauty of it.

Yes, I certainly don't "fully understand" the meaning of the Camino.

Fortunately, we all just need to meet the simple basic requirements, inscribed on the Compostela, to rightly recieve it.

The text of the Compostela is written in Latin. The translated text is as follows:

“The Chapter of this Holy Apostolic Metropolitan Cathedral of Saint James, custodian of the seal of Saint James’ Altar, to all faithful and pilgrims who come from everywhere over the world as an act of devotion, under vow or promise to the Apostle’s Tomb, our Patron and Protector of Spain, witnesses in the sight of all who read this document, that: Mr/Mrs/Ms…………………has visited devoutly this Sacred Church in a religious sense (pietatis causa).

Witness whereof I hand this document over to him, authenticated by the seal of this Sacred Church.

Given in Saint James of Compostela on the (day) …… (month) …… A.D. ……”

Regarding a set minimum age, as mentioned earlier, if they're old enough to understand spiritual things, they can recieve the compostela. The Church's view of this would be based on determining if "sufficient knowledge" was evidenced.

The administration of the Most Holy Eucharist to children requires that they have sufficient knowledge and careful preparation so that they understand the mystery of Christ according to their capacity and are able to receive the body of Christ with faith and devotion. (CIC 913 §1)

That age would vary from person to person, as it probably does with adults, so it's not a simple issue, but one which is probably intended to preserve the integrity of the Compostela.
However, having worked with children, I think it would be easier to evaluate their understanding of their motivation, I think it would be much harder to determine the true motivation of many adults who declare their "act of devotion" (vow or promise) in visiting the Apostle's tomb.

Buen Camino
Colin

 

[Melensdad]

Strikes me that, at its roots, this is a Catholic religious journey.

That said, its the Church that sets the rules on issuing the Comostela.

Many now walk for many different reasons, and there is nothing wrong with that. But for non-religious walkers to suggest that the Catholic church change its rules to suit them strikes me as being somewhat a farce.

 

[PANO]

Strikes me that, at its roots, this is a Catholic religious journey.
That said, its the Church that sets the rules on issuing the Compostela.
Many now walk for many different reasons, and there is nothing wrong with that. But for non-religious walkers to suggest that the Catholic church change its rules to suit them strikes me as being somewhat a farce.

Fully agree. In my observation (-and my own case-), a large number of people walk the camino for non-religious reasons and would much prefer to have just a simple nice and "neutral" confirmation of their accomplishment, not being forced to ask a church-institution for it.
What about Ivar to to provide such a document at his office? To make it more desirable, the Rules should be much tougher than the Compostela.
This suggestion being somewhat off-topic, would the forum consider it worth of a separate thread?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

The text of the Compostela is written in Latin. The translated text is as follows:

... to all faithful and pilgrims who come from everywhere over the world as an act of devotion, under vow or promise to the Apostle’s Tomb, our Patron and Protector of Spain, witnesses in the sight of all who read this document, that: Mr/Mrs/Ms…………………has visited devoutly this Sacred Church in a religious sense (pietatis causa).

Colin

I think the Church starting down a slippery slope when it confused the text above with "spiritual reasons". Is it faith, or spirituality? Is it Catholic faith, or is it finding one's self? Ah, the can of worms.

 

[Melensdad]

Fully agree. In my observation (-and my own case-), a large number of people walk the camino for non-religious reasons and would much prefer to have just a simple nice and "neutral" confirmation of their accomplishment, not being forced to ask a church-institution for it.
What about Ivar to to provide such a document at his office? To make it more desirable, the Rules should be much tougher than the Compostela.
This suggestion being somewhat off-topic, would the forum consider it worth of a separate thread?

For non-religious I would suggest that you make up your own version. It would be just as legitimate as any other version for a non-Catholic. Really the Compestela is a Catholic document of faith, so for the non-Catholic then what good is a Compestela? And if you are not a Catholic then there is no real need for the Compestela at all, any sort of certificate of completion would be just as valid in your own eyes.

I think the Church starting down a slippery slope when it confused the text above with "spiritual reasons". Is it faith, or spirituality? Is it Catholic faith, or is it finding one's self? Ah, the can of worms.

It says 'faithful' and 'under a devotion ... to the Apostle's tomb' and I believe the Catholic Church is pretty clear about faith/devotion versus spirituality. No slippery slope.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

It says 'faith' and I believe the Catholic Church is pretty clear about faith versus spirituality. No slippery slope.

But when you up at the issuing office they do combine both faith and spirituality as a reason to offer you the Compostela. You sometimes have to work quite hard to get the 'secular version'.

 

[Melensdad]

But when you up at the issuing office they do combine both faith and spirituality as a reason to offer you the Compostela. You sometimes have to work quite hard to get the 'secular version'.

Then don't go to them for the document.

I see no reason for a non-believer to go to the Catholic church to ask for a piece of paper that carries no Catholic meaning.

Honestly why would it matter to a non-believer/non-Catholic if the document came from a tourist office or some private enterprise? It is not a document of faith, penance or of devotion to the Saint, but rather a certificate of completion. So why both to go to the Catholic Church at all?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Then don't go to them for the document.

I see no reason for a non-believer to go to the Catholic church to ask for a piece of paper that carries no Catholic meaning.

Honestly why would it matter to a non-believer/non-Catholic if the document came from a tourist office or some private enterprise? It is not a document of faith, penance or of devotion to the Saint, but rather a certificate of completion. So why both to go to the Catholic Church at all?

I'm not saying they are asking for the Compostela, but that even when they say they did not do it for religious reasons the office staff asks questions to try to make their journey as 'spiritual' as possible, as if they really prefer giving the Compostela out instead of the certificate of completion.

 

[Angelo]

Thanks for the clarification, Johnnie Walker. Much appreciated.

 

[Angelo]

It would be good for those who do not want to receive a Compostela to specify to the Pilgrim's office volunteers that he/she only wants to get the certificate of completion. I, on the other hand, did my first Camino and the second one next week to get a Compostela. Peace!

 

[Tia Valeria]

Is the certificate of distance still available. So long as the last 100kms has been fulfilled and the credencial stamped then maybe that is the way to go, without either Compostella or secular 'completion'. What is the problem? To return to the OP's question:- maybe the litle one can have that, if deemed too young to understand for the compostela, on a similar basis to someone in a wheelchair as not actually able to walk the distance. On the other hand if you go slow he might just surprise you.....

 

[JohnnieWalker]

The certificate of distance is still available.

Nowadays there is very little difference in the design of the Compostela and the Welcome Certificate - they are both written in Latin and the pilgrims name inscribed in Latin. The text of the Compostela has been reworded.

I have attached copies of the Compostela and the Welcome Certificate. I am no Latin scholar - perhaps someone would care to translate both and highlight the differences between them

 

[Anemone del Camino]

View attachment 18058

JohnnieWalker, are you sure there's a Compostela in the two photos you have uploaded?

 

[PANO]

For non-religious I would suggest that you make up your own version. It would be just as legitimate as any other version for a non-Catholic. Really the Compestela is a Catholic document of faith, so for the non-Catholic then what good is a Compestela? And if you are not a Catholic then there is no real need for the Compestela at all, any sort of certificate of completion would be just as valid in your own eyes.
It says 'faithful' and 'under a devotion ... to the Apostle's tomb' and I believe the Catholic Church is pretty clear about faith/devotion versus spirituality. No slippery slope.
I see no reason for a non-believer to go to the Catholic church to ask for a piece of paper that carries no Catholic meaning.
Honestly why would it matter to a non-believer/non-Catholic if the document came from a tourist office or some private enterprise? It is not a document of faith, penance or of devotion to the Saint, but rather a certificate of completion. So why bother to go to the Catholic Church at all?

I don't understand why you are so zealously insisting in your responses; if you read my post, you'll find that we are in perfect agreement: I and many others really don't want to bother the religious community and don't care about a Compostela such as worded and handed out by the church; it is clearly not for me/us, mercifully it is written in Latin. Please be aware that the Camino has pre-christian roots and that you should not try to monopolize for your own personal beliefs.
@Johnny Walker: Regretfully, I was not (made-) aware of this alternative and why should the church care to advertise for it? At the office, I was merely given a choice of «religious» and «spiritual» reasons, the second was OK for me; never read/understood the Compostela text...

Really, what we would instead very much like to have (and pay for) is a nicely crafted, «worldly» memorial documentation (in Spanish) of our walk, issued at a different location by a «secular authority», which could very well be Ivar/caminodesantiago.me.
@ivar: Seriously, why don't you consider to set this up, nothing wrong to do it commercially; perhaps incorporated within an «Association of the Camino» lead by staff members?
I think that The Camino could become even more popular with an added non-religious element.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

JohnnieWalker, are you sure there's a Compostela in the two photos you have uploaded?

Yes - the first is the Compostela and the second the Certificate. Spot the difference!

 

[dougfitz]

At the risk of Ivar giving me some bad boy points for breaking Rule 2, and @David heaping scorn on me for my theological naivety, here is my take. As an agnostic lapsed Catholic I believe that there are some things that are and will continue to be unexplained by science. If for no other reason, we have a spiritual dimension in our lives. I walk for a number of reasons, and while I have not had a road to Damascus moment, I find out something more about myself and others each time I walk. I believe that the current arrangement which allows the Pilgrim Office to acknowledge with the Compostella that I have undertaken my pilgrimage for spiritual but not religious reasons is a perfectly sensible balance.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Yes - the first is the Compostela and the second the Certificate. Spot the difference!

Apart from the wording one is 'portrait' the other 'landscape' - is there a prize??

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Apart from the wording one is 'portrait' the other 'landscape' - is there a prize??

Of course! A bottle of Johnniewalker will be awarded for the best translation of both the Compostela and the Certificate AND a coherent explanation of the difference in meaning between the two.

 

[miguel_gp]

 

[Angelo]

NICE! Very nice, Miguel.

 

[colinPeter]

.... we have a spiritual dimension in our lives. I walk for a number of reasons, and while I have not had a road to Damascus moment, I find out something more about myself and others each time I walk. I believe that the current arrangement which allows the Pilgrim Office to acknowledge with the Compostella that I have undertaken my pilgrimage for spiritual but not religious reasons is a perfectly sensible balance.

+1

 

[Melensdad]

I don't understand why you are so zealously insisting in your responses...

Not insistent, just blunt. I've said in other posts my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

It just baffles me that people who are not religious even bother to get the Compestela. And I am unclear why people don't just make up their own if they don't want the religious document, or form an association to do so.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[William Marques]

Please can we stay on topic which is about a 3 year old and the compostela not the wider question. If you wish to continue that discussion please take it elsewhere.

 

[caminocrazy81]

Comsidering this is about having completed a pilgrimage, I cannot see how a person who has not reached the age of reason, and cannot possibly understand the meaning of this walk, let alone have made an effort to walk towards Santiago, would be deserving of a compostela.

Ironically, I once heard someone mention you would be better off saying you did not walk with "good" intentions so you would get the "prettier" certificate. Make the distance one ugly and watch the numbers dwindel on the Camino

I'm afraid I have to disagree. I think he will certainly be deserving of a Compostella perhaps I'm biased because I'm his mother. He will still have the same experience as us he just won't have walked the entirely of the trip. And he will certainly have made an effort that's for sure!

 

[caminocrazy81]

Thank you everyone for you helpful comments. It would be wonderful if Alistair was able to take home a Compostella but we will, no doubt, have a wonderful journey.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

He will still have the same experience as us he just won't have walked the entirely of the trip. And he will certainly have made an effort that's for sure!

That is commendable! It is an experience of a lifetime.

Of course, that is not what the Compostela is about.

 

[caminocrazy81]

That is commendable! It is an experience of a lifetime.

Of course, that is not what the Compostela is about.

Perhaps, but if he asks for the non-religious certificate, do you think he would be deserving of that? Isn't that merley a certificate of completion?

 

[SYates]

I'm afraid I have to disagree. I think he will certainly be deserving of a Compostella perhaps I'm biased because I'm his mother. He will still have the same experience as us he just won't have walked the entirely of the trip. And he will certainly have made an effort that's for sure!

Actually the Compostela is about "visiting devoutly this Sacred Church in a religious sense (pietatis causa)." see http://peregrinossantiago.es/eng/pilgrimage/the-compostela/ I doubt that a three year old can understand this concept. Buen Camino! SY

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Perhaps, but if he asks for the non-religious certificate, do you think he would be deserving of that? Isn't that merely a certificate of completion?

I honestly don't know. I have been told that the completion certificate is given to anyone who asks; those who did not walk the last 100km, those who restarted in a discontinuous manner, and those who had no spiritual or religious motivation. I don't know if there is an age requirement. I cannot think of any reason why age should be a factor. Of course, they never ask me!

I have no dog in this hunt. I just point out that the Compostela has become a symbol of a physical achievement. It is actually an acknowledgement of a religious Catholic pilgrimage to the tomb of St. James. The Pilgrim Office is responsible for what it has become. They are the proper ones to answer for what it has become.