Camino Planning with Chat GPT - Hmmmm

[Robo]

NOTICE. I think as you will see in the following thread, AI is NOT the best Camino Planning Tool!


I've been playing around with AI at work (ChatGPT and CoPilot) and use it sometimes for research.

I thought I would try it for planning a short Sanabres.

I'll include all the prompting here, in case you have never used AI tools. I often find I have to rephrase the question if the answer looks a bit suspect. It did find a place to stay where I thought none existed though! https://www.casabubeladozon.com/

Whilst this looks a long process, it all took about 1-2 minutes. The answers are almost instant.

I wouldn't trust it 100%, maybe 90%. (or on reflection 60-70% - or less) But it comes up with ideas I might not have considered and are worthy of further research. The key is structuring the right question or 'prompt. i.e. I say I've walked a few times so it doesn't reply with very basic stuff.

I see a few errors in the distances too. So I would ask it to double check again, and point out which ones look wrong.

Prompt. The topic is the Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage walk that I have undertaken a few times already. Please help me plan a new route on the Camino Sanabres. Here are the constraints. I want to start at Ourense and finish at Santiago de Compostela. The whole distance must be walked. No transport of any kind. I want to keep the distance walked per day, between 15 and 22 kms. What would be the logical places to stop overnight along the way and how many days will the walk take?
Answer

The Camino Sanabrés is a beautiful and less crowded route, offering a unique experience on the Camino de Santiago. Starting from Ourense and walking to Santiago de Compostela, the total distance is approximately 110 kilometers. To fit your constraints of walking between 15 and 22 kilometers per day, here's a suggested itinerary with logical overnight stops:

### Day 1: Ourense to Cea (21 km)
- **Description**: This is a challenging start due to the initial steep climb, but the beautiful scenery makes it worthwhile. Cea is known for its traditional bread, "Pan de Cea," which you can enjoy after a day's walk.

### Day 2: Cea to Castro Dozón (17 km)
- **Description**: A pleasant walk through rural landscapes with gentle hills. Castro Dozón is a quiet village ideal for a restful evening.

### Day 3: Castro Dozón to Silleda (20 km)
- **Description**: This stage offers a mix of woodland paths and open countryside. Silleda is a larger town with more amenities, perfect for a comfortable overnight stay.

### Day 4: Silleda to Ponte Ulla (21 km)
- **Description**: The route features more forest trails and picturesque villages. Ponte Ulla is located by the river Ulla, providing a tranquil setting to rest.

### Day 5: Ponte Ulla to Santiago de Compostela (20 km)
- **Description**: The final stretch takes you through rural areas before reaching the city. Arriving at the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela will be a rewarding end to your journey.

### Summary of the Plan
- **Total Days**: 5 days of walking
- **Average Distance per Day**: 19.8 km
- **Total Distance**: 99 km

This plan covers the entire route from Ourense to Santiago, adhering to your daily distance preference and providing logical stops for overnight stays. Enjoy your pilgrimage!

Prompt. Please review as I think the distance is more than that
Answer.
You're right; let's review the distances more accurately. The total distance from Ourense to Santiago de Compostela is closer to 110-120 kilometers. Here’s a revised itinerary with more accurate distances and logical overnight stops:

### Day 1: Ourense to Cea (21 km)
- **Description**: A steep start with scenic views. The town of Cea is known for its bread and provides a good resting point.

### Day 2: Cea to A Laxe (22 km)
- **Description**: This stage involves walking through forested areas and small villages. A Laxe is a small hamlet with basic amenities for pilgrims.

### Day 3: A Laxe to Silleda (15 km)
- **Description**: A shorter day, allowing you to rest and enjoy the peaceful rural environment. Silleda offers more services and accommodation options.

### Day 4: Silleda to Bandeira (16 km)
- **Description**: Another relatively short day through lush landscapes and agricultural areas. Bandeira is a small town ideal for a restful evening.

### Day 5: Bandeira to Ponte Ulla (16 km)
- **Description**: A pleasant walk through countryside scenery, ending in Ponte Ulla, which is situated by the river and has various amenities.

### Day 6: Ponte Ulla to Santiago de Compostela (21 km)
- **Description**: The final stretch through rural paths and small villages. Reaching Santiago de Compostela marks the culmination of your pilgrimage.

### Summary of the Plan
- **Total Days**: 6 days of walking
- **Average Distance per Day**: 18.5 km
- **Total Distance**: 111 km

This revised plan should fit your daily distance preferences more accurately. Let me know if you'd like any further adjustments!

Prompt. OK, now try again, but use the more traditional route passing through Tamallancos, and also ensure that I am able to stop overnight at Oseira and Lestado. You need to make sure there is Pilgrim accommodation in all overnight locations.

Answer. Here’s a revised itinerary that incorporates the traditional route through Tamallancos and includes overnight stops in Oseira and Lestedo, ensuring that all locations have pilgrim accommodation available.

### Day 1: Ourense to Tamallancos (15 km)
- **Description**: This is a relatively short and manageable start, passing through scenic countryside. Tamallancos has pilgrim accommodation available and is a good place to begin the journey.

### Day 2: Tamallancos to Oseira (20 km)
- **Description**: This day’s walk leads to the historic Monastery of Oseira, one of the highlights of this route. The monastery offers pilgrim accommodation, providing a unique experience.

### Day 3: Oseira to Castro Dozón (16 km)
- **Description**: A scenic walk through rural Galicia with gentle hills. Castro Dozón has a few options for pilgrim accommodation, making it a suitable resting point.

### Day 4: Castro Dozón to Lestedo (18 km)
- **Description**: The route continues through beautiful rural landscapes. Lestedo has a pilgrim albergue available, making it a convenient stop for the night.

### Day 5: Lestedo to Silleda (16 km)
- **Description**: A relatively short day, allowing for a more relaxed pace. Silleda offers several accommodation options for pilgrims.

### Day 6: Silleda to Ponte Ulla (20 km)
- **Description**: This stage includes walking through forests and small villages. Ponte Ulla is a charming town with available pilgrim accommodations.

### Day 7: Ponte Ulla to Santiago de Compostela (21 km)
- **Description**: The final stage of the journey, leading through rural paths and small hamlets before arriving at Santiago de Compostela. Reaching the cathedral is a rewarding conclusion to the pilgrimage.

### Summary of the Plan
- **Total Days**: 7 days of walking
- **Average Distance per Day**: 18 km
- **Total Distance**: 126 km

This itinerary ensures that all overnight stops have pilgrim accommodations, adhering to your preference for distances between 15 and 22 km per day. Let me know if you'd like any further modifications!

Prompt. What accomodation options did you find in Castro Dozón?

Answer.

In Castro Dozón, there are two primary accommodation options for pilgrims:

1. **Hostel Dozón**: This albergue offers a total of 50 places, with a mix of berths and rooms on the floor. It has basic amenities such as heating, hot water showers, a kitchen, dining room, and laundry facilities. It's a budget-friendly option at around 6€ per night and is accessible to those with mobility issues. This hostel is open year-round, and you can book in advance, which is helpful during peak seasons【12†source】.

2. **Casa Bubela**: This is a restored historic stone house offering a more comfortable stay. It has three bedrooms, including one en suite, and a shared full bathroom for the other rooms. Casa Bubela provides additional amenities like free Wi-Fi, laundry facilities, and a small breakfast included in the price (25-30€ per night). It is a good choice for those looking for a cozier and more private stay compared to the hostel【14†source】.

Both options cater well to pilgrims on the Camino Sanabrés and are conveniently located between stages. Let me know if you need more details or further assistance with planning!

Prompt. I thought Hostel Dozón was closed?

Answer.

It appears that Hostel Dozón in Castro Dozón is currently closed, which could cause issues for pilgrims planning to stay there. This closure has been confirmed by recent discussions among Camino pilgrims, who have been exploring alternative routes and accommodations around this area【23†source】.

However, there are still a couple of options available:

1. **Casa Bubela**: This is a private guesthouse in Castro Dozón that offers comfortable accommodations for pilgrims, including a few rooms with shared bathrooms, Wi-Fi, laundry facilities, and a small breakfast included in the price. It's a good alternative if you're looking for a more private and cozy stay【14†source】.

2. **Alternative Stop in Lalín**: Some pilgrims have suggested detouring to Lalín, which is accessible via a 3.4 km diversion from the main Camino route. Lalín offers more accommodation options, including private albergues and hostels, making it a viable alternative if you need more facilities or if Casa Bubela is fully booked【23†source】.

If you're set on staying in Castro Dozón, it would be best to book Casa Bubela in advance due to the limited accommodation options. Otherwise, consider planning your route to include a stop in Lalín.

 

[wisepilgrim]

It was already wrong with the first line it gave you, and got more wrong as it went.

Anybody that dares to use this as a planner is going to be severely disappointed to realize that it well written rubbish.

 

[jungleboy]

More related to staging than AI, and I know you have walked some of this at the end of your Invierno, but I wouldn't stay in Silleda or Bandeira as to me they are uninteresting, modern towns with no appeal beyond practicalities. I like off-stage, rural options in the last 100km of virtually every camino. To that end, Casa Leiras in Dornelas is a great albergue with a communal dinner, Reina Lupa has been praised but I haven't stayed there personally, and I like the muni in Outeiro as an alternative to Ponte Ulla, though you have to bring your own food.

 

[Robo]

It was already wrong with the first line it gave you, and got more wrong as it went.

Anybody that dares to use this as a planner is going to be severely disappointed to realize that it well written rubbish.

Yes, it's not that accurate is it?

 

[Robo]

More related to staging than AI, and I know you have walked some of this at the end of your Winter, but I wouldn't stay in Silleda or Bandeira as to me they are uninteresting, modern towns with no appeal beyond practicalities. I like off-stage, rural options in the last 100km of virtually every path. To that end, Casa Leiras in Dornelas is a great hostel with a communal dinner, Reina Lupa has been praised but I haven't stayed there personally, and I like the muni in Outeiro as an alternative to Ponte Ulla, although you have to bring your own food.

I tend to agree.
When I passed through, Ponte Ulla was closed.
The whole place.

I stopped at the Hostel in Outeiro to get water, as I was booked a bit further on.
It looked really nice!

I must check out those others you mention!

 

[Robo]

It was already wrong with the first line it gave you, and got more wrong as it went.

Anybody that dares to use this as a planner is going to be severely disappointed to realize that it well written rubbish.

I think that is the status of AI to a degree at this stage.
As I said, I wouldn't trust it.
I didn't go through the whole thing checking for errors.
It was more about 'playing with it' to see what kind of results it came up with.

As a professional guidebook / app writer I'm sure the errors stood out way more to your eyes!

But I'm sure the day will not be far off, that AI can do quite well with a task like that.

We are already seeing aspects of our consulting business become redundant due to AI.

 

[Sirage]

Why not just rely on the collective wisdom (and miscellaneous banter) from this forum. At a minimum there should be much less hallucination than on the current statistical text generators masquerading as Intelligence.

 

[JabbaPapa]

well written

I have my doubts about that ...

 

[Robo]

I have my doubts about that ...

It's kinda funny isn't it?
There is so much AI produced content online now, particularly those rubbish posts on Social Media.
They stand out as AI.

But I wonder at what stage it becomes hard to tell?

 

[JabbaPapa]

But I wonder at what stage it becomes hard to tell?

Don't think I'm the one to answer that really, as I have a background combining advanced literary studies with professional IT ... so this stuff just looks blatantly artificial to my eyes.

 

[Robo]

It was already wrong with the first line it gave you, and got more wrong as it went.

Anybody that dares to use this as a planner is going to be severely disappointed to realize that it well written rubbish.

The more I read it, the more errors I see!
Maybe we should have a competition to see who can find the most 'factual' errors?

 

[Anhalter]

I only use ChatGPT from time to time, but your post made me experiment with it a bit. It seems to not be a reliable tool for camino planning right now. I gave it several tries (and clarifications) but it could not come up with the rather easy task of planning a CF within 30d including 2 rest days at certain cities.
(but i gave up after 4 attempts since i don't need it)

edit: First attempt got me a plan reaching Villafranca d.B on day 30, second had me walking the "40km" from Sarria to Santiago on day 30, third just said something like "on day 30 do this 4 day trip from Sarria to SdC"... no idea what the 4th attempt did, but it was equally useless.

 

[Sirage]

Just as frame of reference:

The new Camino walker is best served by a guidebook or "just follow the arrows" with a basic map, and stop at places you know about or find along the way.

For those exploring the lesser walked Caminos I can't see how an AI at the moment can help much unless it trawls this forum with some "skill".

To have AI do something approaching reasonable, but no doubt still with errors, I am wondering that the useful prompt into AI is going to be close to the output, sort of.

My next Camino could only have taken its draft shape with a few nuggets of gold from here. And then I find the accommodation and kml tracks as required.

And then after I start there is always a few adjustments along the way.

 

[trecile]

This thread starts with a pretty hilarious suggested itinerary:
Google's AI created itinerary

 

[trecile]

And here are some examples from this thread

I just asked ChatGPT to create a walking itinerary for the Camino de Santiago with different criteria, such as a 40 day walk, a walk with stages of 22 km or less, and a walk with stages of 20 km or less, and also an itinerary of 25 days.

All of the itineraries were identical. For the 40 day itinerary it suggested rest days and more days in Santiago to fill out the 40 days.
The suggested itineraries for the shorter stage days suggested taking taxis.
The only one that wasn't identical was the 25 day itinerary, which had a whopper of a final day - Ponferrada to Santiago, which said:

Day 25: Ponferrada to Santiago de Compostela​

• Distance: 25 km (You can choose to split this into a shorter day to Santiago if needed, by stopping in a nearby town.)

Ponferrada to Santiago is in fact 205 km.

Another suggested stage was Logroño to Nájera, but it said

Distance: 30 km (Consider splitting this stage if needed, with a stop in a town like Cirueña.)

Unfortunately, Cirueña is almost 15 km after Nájera.

 

[t2andreo]

The more I read it, the more errors I see!
Maybe we should have a competition to see who can find the most 'factual' errors?

THAT is why Michael is called "The WisePilgrim."

 

[Casserole]

This was a fun exercise. I have a plan written out because I'll be hiking with my young daughter and need to keep the days short and keep it relatively easy for her.

I gave a simple prompt with our ages and where we will be starting with a maximum km for the day and how many days we will be walking. It came up with the exact plan I had! Some of the km were off slightly (up to 2km) but you can find those discrepancies in any of the books and apps too. It also gave me some highlights of each town.

I think it is a fun tool to have and can help hone things in or just play around with. It's not written in stone and you can choose to use it or not.

 

[GaTeach]

Thank you for sharing this! I am giving a short (25 minute!!!) presentation to our local Lion's club tomorrow evening. Used the prompt: I need an outline for a 25 minute presentation on Camino Frances using physical/mental/spiritual phases.

The outline it spilled out in literally SECONDS was brilliant.

I realize there are a lot of naysayers, but I love using it.

 

[JanosB]

More related to staging than AI, and I know you have walked some of this at the end of your Invierno, but I wouldn't stay in Silleda or Bandeira as to me they are uninteresting, modern towns with no appeal beyond practicalities. I like off-stage, rural options in the last 100km of virtually every camino. To that end, Casa Leiras in Dornelas is a great albergue with a communal dinner, Reina Lupa has been praised but I haven't stayed there personally, and I like the muni in Outeiro as an alternative to Ponte Ulla, though you have to bring your own food.

Be careful with private albergues. Call them before you go.
Two weeks ago I had to turn back from Dornelas to Bandeira because Dornelas was full (party), and Ponte Ulla also... Dornelas' hospi was so kind and called "downstream" albergues without success.
It was a lesson. I have been sleeping alone in several albergues earlier along Sanabrés, but on the 11th of September 2024 I had to turn back.

 

[David Tallan]

Generative AI, like ChatGPT, is not designed to create factual answers. It is designed to create answers that look like the answers people like to see. That's why it invents citations when writing papers for students.

It is designed "truthiness", something that looks right without any interest in being right. That makes it not only unreliable, but more challenging to fact check, because if you don't already have the answer (in which case, you don't need it for research), the errors won't stand out and you will have to do all the research anyways in order to be sure you don't miss any of them.

I can see using it in a non-research way. "Here is my resume. Re-write it to apply to this job ad." In that case, any errors or inventions will immediately leap out to you. But I certainly wouldn't use it for factual research. It doesn't really save any time.

 

[ShoshTrvls]

I can see using it in a non-research way. "Here is my resume. Re-write it to apply to this job ad." In that case, any errors or inventions will immediately leap out to you. But I certainly wouldn't use it for factual research. It doesn't really save any time.

My kid is a teacher and designs curriculums (curricula?) and they use it to generate the curriculum they have written, usually for 7/8th grade, at younger grade/age levels. It is really interesting to see how sophisticated it sometimes is -- it doesn't just take out the longer/more advances words or shorten the sentences. It will split up lessons, suggesting that, say, a 4th grader would not have the attention span for the longer lesson. It will also suggest removing material that might be considered inappropriate for younger children, and/or offer other ways to teach the same concept to a younger age group.

 

[Sirage]

is not designed to create factual answers

Notwithstanding my previous comments earlier in this thread I do now as a matter of habit use Perplexity AI as a search website for factual answers with success, rather than google that often does not get close.

A, or THE, key feature is that it summarises the contents of its sources and provides links to (all ?) its sources, which I then read those sources when I want to properly understand something, and recursively continue as required.
_______
PS: As discussed in another thread, the only place where I could get knowledge on the route from Benavente to Marta de Tera was in this Forum where there is intelligence, knowledge or experience, sometimes deeply hidden in some conversations. Perplexity AI in due course might find it but perhaps only tell me if I create a prompt that is close to the answer.

 

[chinacat]

It appears that Hostel Dozón in Castro Dozón is currently closed, which could cause issues for pilgrims planning to stay there.

It’s not very bright, is it?

I wonder how many of its ‘insights’ are gleaned from this site

But I wonder at what stage it becomes hard to tell?

I have a problem differentiating between AI faces and some faces of interview subjects, with flawless make-up, that appear on broadcasts on BBC News during the night (from the US).
There seems to be a certain ‘look’ that resembles an AI ‘appearance’ … it’s bizarre ..

 

[peregrina2000]

We (the mod squad) have seen some new “forum members” whose posts seem canned and a bit too delicately written to our eyes. Generic comments, always very polite. As we watch, we sometimes conclude that these members, for whatever reason, are posting nothing other than AI-generated responses. We could be wrong, but we have closed a few accounts after careful monitoring. Anyone who gets banned can of course contact Ivar to protest, but that hasn’t happened to my knowledge.

What I can’t figure out is what the incentive is — is it just messing with us, trolling us, or is there some purpose or reward to be had by the person orchestrating these interactions?