- Time of past OR future Camino
- CF (X3), VDLP, Madrid ‘12-‘22
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I just declined the "opportunity" to run a field course... for exactly these reasons -- 15 people... responsible for their well-being *and* their learning outcomes?? the anxiety it induced... and I already have health things of my own to deal with.I think I may be more of a loner, too. A few weeks ago I walked with a ready-made Camino Family of University students. I was the leader and although I am glad I had the experience, I think I'd just rather walk with Phil or by myself. I was all those things you list for 10 other people. It can be a bit much...
This is not something everyone experiences. The phyisical challenge is universal, but neediness in response to that is not.The difficulty of the first week (regardless of your starting point) finds you needy for physical, emotional and all other areas of susupport.
It was a good experience for me to do it. I am a good teacher and a good planner, but dealing with the day to day drama of 20 something aged women was what surprised me and what I did not enjoy as much. Perhaps my Army experiences and the experience of having only sons did not prepare me well for hurt feelings among friends and outbursts of tears.I just declined the "opportunity" to run a field course... for exactly these reasons -- 15 people... responsible for their well-being *and* their learning outcomes?? the anxiety it induced... and I already have health things of my own to deal with.
That's exactly what I was dreading... the emotional stuff... Also, I think... I just don't want to mix up my casinos with my campus life.It was a good experience for me to do it. I am a good teacher and a good planner, but dealing with the day to day drama of 20 something aged women was what surprised me and what I did not enjoy as much. Perhaps my Army experiences and the experience of having only sons did not prepare me well for hurt feelings among friends and outbursts of tears.
Honestly, no one complained much about the walking, the cold, or the rain, etc. It was the picky eaters and interpersonal dynamics that make me think it isn't for me.
Let me know if you change your mind and I will share our itinerary via pm.That's exactly what I was dreading... the emotional stuff... Also, I think... I just don't want to mix up my casinos with my campus life.
I’m sorry you had that experience of feeling like an interloper, but it is somewhat reassuring that my companions and I weren’t the only ones. It happened only in one albergue in the morning while in the common area getting ready to leave. Besides my two companions and myself, the others seemed to be all of one group. I don’t recall what the night’s sleeping arrangements were, but that morning we all picked up an unwelcoming vibe, like they were afraid we would try to horn in on their group, which could not have been further from our minds.I always enjoy hearing about those who found themselves part of tightly knit "family" groups during their Camino and valued that experience. My experience, however, was quite different.
…. — while sharing a room in an albergue, say, or walking the same stretch of road for a few hours — I always felt like an interloper. Part of that could have been self-consciousness on my part. But I'm wondering how much if it was due to the way most families tend to close ranks when they encounter someone who's not part of their group. (Edit: This post from last year perfectly expresses what I'm trying to convey here - shades of high school cliques indeed!)
On my first Camino we became part of a family, people we noticed on the first day but gelled organically after 3-4 days. a loose group of 20 or so that we kept meeting up with and a tighter group of 6, aged from 69 to 26. From NZ, Canada, USA, Denmark. We often left together in the mornings, but walked at different speeds so didn't walk together at all during the day. So we didn't eat together during the day either due to our walking alone. Met up in the evenings, and generally stayed at the same places, but not always, and not exclusively. We didn't fulfil any roles, just enjoyed their company - but also the company of others.Now that my walking is completed, I continue my Camino passion through the Forum, books and memories. The past few weeks I have been reflecting on my Camino Family experiences and I appreciate your thoughts and comments.
It seemed a natural dynamic process of building a Camino Family on the Frances. The difficulty of the first week (regardless of your starting point) finds you needy for physical, emotional and all other areas of support. What I remember is that each member of our family took on a particular role or roles. Podiatrist (blister repair), encourager (mom/dad), weather watcher, equipment guru, Camino expert, restaurant picker/ head chef, translator (families are international), foodie (always had chocolate or cookies), photographer and peacemaker.
I am curious- what was your experience?, did you have role? What roles did I miss?
Thanks
Mike the Compeed Keeper/Master Taper
Not a natural or necessary part of the Camino, but when it happens the formation of the Camino family is a natural process, at least in my experience.Never have I experienced a camino family and to be honest, I don't think it should be posed as a "natural process" of one's camino.
Not into camino families, but "casino" families! I'd like to hear more about that!That's exactly what I was dreading... the emotional stuff... Also, I think... I just don't want to mix up my casinos with my campus life.
Yes, on one Camino I found myself on the outskirts of some very nice people who acquired roles - parents, the young people, an eccentric uncle or two, etc. However, I felt like a second cousin who was welcome but not emotionally bonded. I deliberately got off stage and was much happier to be independent.each member of our family took on a particular role or roles.
I have had some interesting random encounters on my Caminos. And now and again I walk for a few hours with someone. But there have also been days when I have added 10km or more to my day to leave someone tiresome well behind me.I have to admit that every time I ended up walking together with somebody, I secretly starting planning ways to ditch them.
Not a natural or necessary part of the Camino, but when it happens the formation of the Camino family is a natural process, at least in my experience.
My problem is just that I struggle to hear, multiple conversations just become a jumble, and I have to really concentrate to pull one conversation out of the total hubbub. I find it exhausting.Probably also why I get overwhelm in larger groups with multiple simultaneous conversations going on..........
My problem is just that I struggle to hear, multiple conversations just become a jumble, and I have to really concentrate to pull one conversation out of the total hubbub. I find it exhausting.
So I hate people suggesting a noisy bar to have a chat.
Apparently I have full range of hearing. I can even hear high pitched sounds my husband, a musician, cant.
But it seems my brain doesn't like to have to unscramble it.
This got me thinking about group dynamics and teams.
The smallest effective Army group is typically....
Your musings are interesting, but for me, they do not apply to the Camino. The Camino is typically not a team effort. I certainly (admittedly selfishly) do not take on the responsibility of getting anyone else to Santiago. Even if a group of friends forms, we are not generally problem-solving together, at least not in any significant way where the success of the team depends on each of us doing our part. That is where the word "effective" was significant on your statement about Army group size - that group needs to be effective in accomplishing a group goal, which is not really the case for the Camino. where a bunch of people are really just socializing together in whatever way/degree they individually prefer.
I enjoyed your musings annd agree with response!Good points. Mere musings
But things like deciding where to wak, where to sleep, where to eat get very hard with groups who want to do everything together
Heck I've walked around in circles as 5 or 6 people try to decide!
I was just curious about what size families seem to work?
Is smaller better?
I suspect as in all things Camino, it depends.......
I guess I would add that meeting people is great but not a priority, which is ironic as I always meet loads of great people which I find is pretty much a ‘given’ in terms of a ‘backpacking’ lifestyle. Maybe this varies by your everyday life and how much you meet folks from very different background. If you live in a major city in USA and Europe you will probably be meeting people from so many different nations everyday! In fact for many the Camino may well be les diverse than everyday life.I enjoyed your musings annd agree with response!
In fact in many ways I can’t think of too many things less ‘teamy’ than a Camino. It’s quite a selfish endeavour. I don’t mean that in the negative sense of the word, but more a need to be single minded, tunnel visioned and adopt a ‘me first’ approach which for some people will be the first time they have done it. You effectively ‘ditch’ your normal role, whether that’s your job, parent, carer, partner etc and trade it in for 30 days ‘me time’.
As the old saying goes ‘there’s no ‘I’ in team’ but there is an ‘I’ in ‘Camino’.
A lady came on here recently and talked about in a long marriage she had devoted herself to her partner and never put herself first and she was determined to now do something for herself . Other people have said similar and talked about guilt. Many of course are in a situation where they can put themselves first much of the time.
I am not a fan of Camino families. I am quite outgoing and find it easy to meet people, but I also have loner tendencies and compromise isn’t my strength. Yes I am an only child! Inalways walk alone (I am very slow anyway but like to walk into the early evening). Like many I build up a loose network of people that I look forward to meeting as and when.
As the old saying goes ‘there’s no ‘I’ in team’ but there is an ‘I’ in ‘Camino’.
Thank you! I just thought of that and was quite proud of it!! Didn’t think anyone would notice!! Where do I trademark it!!Love it
Did not feel a need for support. Interaction with others for minutes or days was welcomed but not required.Now that my walking is completed, I continue my Camino passion through the Forum, books and memories. The past few weeks I have been reflecting on my Camino Family experiences and I appreciate your thoughts and comments.
It seemed a natural dynamic process of building a Camino Family on the Frances. The difficulty of the first week (regardless of your starting point) finds you needy for physical, emotional and all other areas of support. What I remember is that each member of our family took on a particular role or roles. Podiatrist (blister repair), encourager (mom/dad), weather watcher, equipment guru, Camino expert, restaurant picker/ head chef, translator (families are international), foodie (always had chocolate or cookies), photographer and peacemaker.
I am curious- what was your experience?, did you have role? What roles did I miss?
Thanks
Mike the Compeed Keeper/Master Taper
Although I don't consider myself a true introvert (I've been a hospitalera several times) I've never found myself in need of the support you mention. I actually cringe at the idea of being part of such a large group, I guess I enjoy my freedom too much. While walking I don't like to be pinned down and plan as little as possible. As Sabine mentioned maybe this also stems from my work as a physiotherapist which involved caring for others.The difficulty of the first week (regardless of your starting point) finds you needy for physical, emotional and all other areas of support.
To be honest I was completely dumbfounded by these 3 questions. You are walking for yourself, first and foremost and only for yourself and your reasons. You walk and if you are lucky the energy, awareness and joy will unfold by the power of the camino and your willingness to accept it. Even the idea of the expression that we all walk our own camino, (I have learned this and borrow this concept from one of the wisest and most wonderful people on this forum, who shall remain nameless) is anathema to me. None of us own the camino or it is ours to keep. It is a privilege to walk to Santiago and whatever camino you are on, we must respect the camino, its energy and spirit, the local people we encounter or pass, whether the experience is good or otherwise and give thanks we are on it. I think you may have missed what is your only role.I am curious- what was your experience?, did you have role? What roles did I miss?
I would hope that would be the policy for any albergue which does not routinely accept reservations in advance. First come, first served. Having someone sprint ahead to stake a claim to half an albergue for their friends would undermine the principle.The ones I encountered tended to be quite fast walkers and sometimes wanting to "save a bed" for others in their group (not allowed at places we volunteer. )
And it's a CAMino, not a CO-mino. Even though a cam really does kind of work as part of a team in an engine. And that's one of the only things about a Cam I No. Okay, sorry.As the old saying goes ‘there’s no ‘I’ in team’ but there is an ‘I’ in ‘Camino’.
Yeah, I think I mentioned this before, but once I saw a woman with a baby in a stroller struggling to get up a rocky hill on the camino. I thought about helping her. I didn't do it, but I thought about it.One family had formed around a mother and infant and her two teenaged twins (family unit from Cape Verde). Other young adults in the Camino Family group were concerned about them, helping with the infant and ensuring they would be accepted. I am certain the help was appreciated.
Just like real families, there is no ideal size, and the idea of "what works" depends on your values, objectives, idiosyncrasies, and circumstances.I was just curious about what size families seem to work?
Is smaller better?
Yes, this is absolutely true, but I think your musings go in a different direction than @Robo's thoughts about group dynamics and teams. Those thousands of people are generally not functioning like modern teams - thankfully so, for some of us. The lack of a governing structure (with organized hierarchy, teams, and responsibilities) is one of the endearing characteristics of the Camino. Somehow, this collection of 1000s of people, past and present, mostly walking as individuals or small loose groups, keeps moving towards the same destination.Hmmm. So... I just want to pipe in to muse a little as well... because I don't think that the camino is an individual effort at all. It only looks that way.
Yes, many of us go alone, or we go sometimes with a very select group from some other part of our social lives...
But there are actually thousands of people helping us to reach destination.
Even at the Xunta albergues this is not allowed so either M. Or I had to hang around the desk waiting for our students to drift in and pay one at a time.I would hope that would be the policy for any albergue which does not routinely accept reservations in advance. First come, first served. Having someone sprint ahead to stake a claim to half an albergue for their friends would undermine the principle.
Although I don't consider myself a true introvert (I've been a hospitalera several times) I've never found myself in need of the support you mention. I actually cringe at the idea of being part of such a large group, I guess I enjoy my freedom too much. While walking I don't like to be pinned down and plan as little as possible. As Sabine mentioned maybe this also stems from my work as a physiotherapist which involved caring for others.
My connections when they spontaneously occurred were with one or two people rather than a whole group.
Yes, I agree. Not family, with all its connotations good and bad but connections. The brief connections I experienced, the kindness and charity, to me, make the Camino special. I’ll never forget the warmth of many locals, the help offered when needed by fellow pilgrims and the sense of a shared journey. There’s nothing like it. Hello Geraldine, Richard, Steve and the countless unnamed people I will likely never see againIn multiple caminos the closest I've come to having a 'Camino family' was walking a short less-traveled route with 4 friends. It's certainly not the same thing.
And to be honest, I can't understand the myth that having a 'camino family' is something universal to the Camino experience, because it's not something I've ever experienced - nor would I want to. Loose flexible connections, yes, many - coming and going. This is definitely a lovely part of walking the Francés. But not a fixed group that walks stages in lockstep and stays together.
I'm not a 'loner.'
Neither am I an extrovert.
I just don’t come to the Camino for connection. Rather I seek space and simplicity.
This is not something everyone experiences. The phyisical challenge is universal, but neediness in response to that is not.
Nor is there a universal desire for fixed groups. Loose and spontaneous connections with a wide range of other pilgrims is (in my experience, anyway) much more common.
Thank you. I certainly appreciate that a lot of people contribute to the Camino a person walks. I think that goes for all things in life but yes from the shops on the routes themselves, the pilot that flies you there, the people that manage the ALSA and Renfe website and indeed the folks who manage this forum. Even (and maybe especially) the person that approves your time off work!).Hmmm. So... I just want to pipe in to muse a little as well... because I don't think that the camino is an individual effort at all. It only looks that way.
Yes, many of us go alone, or we go sometimes with a very select group from some other part of our social lives...
But there are actually thousands of people helping us to reach destination. Maybe some of us are very selfish about it and make no apologies for that because that alone space is something desperately needed. That's all good (I tend to be a bit of any oyster myself)... but I observe that if any of us thinks we are going it alone, then that person is mistaken. There is the obvious infrastructure... but there are the words of encouragement, the extra time taken by the pharmacist to help you, the villagers who seek to give you fruit from their trees, the volunteers who mark the way... Ender on the Salvador who went out last winter to *tamp* the whole route after an unexpected snow -- to make sure that any brave pilgrim would not get lost...
We are supported and moved along by the invisible efforts of thousands of people... and I have not even mentioned the *hospitaleros*.
And yes, I would slow down for a relative stranger in an emergency to see that person through to safety, and once that safety was secured, yes I would move on.
I suspect that this kind of willingness to help those in need is closer to the truth of most walkers than "There's no I in team, but there's an I in camino..."
And I prefer to interpret "It's my camino" as a recognition that experience and interpretation is up to us as our effort to show up for, be responsible for, and not to read it as "And everyone else better try to go along with the fantasy that I am the only person whose experience matters."
Pilgrimage to me cannot ever be a purely individual effort, and it must also allow the space for something uniquely our own and very personal to become evident.
I absolutely dislike the concept of a Camino family.
If I connect with someone I will walk with them and share dinner or a drink. But if we go our own ways then this is perfect too.
Once I was translating for a group of international pilgrims in a restaurant and it was a tiring affair. Too much for this introvert.
Family I have at home.
I do not need external support on a Camino. Kindness is appreciated but I do not need support.
My job implies lots of listening and talking so I do not seek this on a Camino.
Great tune with some great lyrics!!!!And here I go again on my own
Going down the only road I've ever known
Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone.
Lyrics to a Song by Whitesnake
Being human is funny. We are tribe like yet individual. When we happen upon like minded we celebrate and hope it lasts. Some hold on tight, letting go can be hard. The Camino ebbs and flows and to truly get out of it what it offers one must let it roll.
Play the role you were given and play it with gusto, share with one and all.
Love this quote, it’s so true.“The man who goes alone can start today; but he who travels with another must wait till that other is ready.”
– Henry David Thoreau,
Walden, 1854
Exactly my thoughts, too. Still in the late 90's you recognized and at some level interacted with most people who had started within a few days before or after you. Seeing them every now and then on the road and in the refugees and walking a bit with the same rythm untill someone took a rest day - and then meeting again after some days. Then in 2007 it was allready far more people walking, and people seemed to stick more with their original companions or a 'family' that had been formed in the early days of the Camino.I always enjoy hearing about those who found themselves part of tightly knit "family" groups during their Camino and valued that experience. My experience, however, was quite different.
Although I became close with some amazing people during my Camino — several of whom I still am in regular contact with two years later — I can't say I/we were part of what is generally regarded as a "Camino family", but rather individuals who (gloriously, serendipitously) happened to be in some of the same places at the same times. The few occasions I did spend time with a "Camino family" who had been walking together for days or weeks before I met them — while sharing a room in an albergue, say, or walking the same stretch of road for a few hours — I always felt like an interloper. Part of that could have been self-consciousness on my part. But I'm wondering how much if it was due to the way most families tend to close ranks when they encounter someone who's not part of their group. (Edit: This post from last year perfectly expresses what I'm trying to convey here - shades of high school cliques indeed!)
Like @SabsP above, I liked the freedom of being able to come and go as I pleased (the only child in me, no doubt) and was fortunate enough to find and provide support from and to others depending on circumstances, not because I fell into any kind of regular "role" or expected other to assume one. For me, that made for a more fulfilling and less restrictive Camino experience.
My understanding of my experience is different. For me, one of the glories of the Camino experience is how it is cooperative rather than competitive; how everyone is everyone else's cheerleader; how pilgrims seem to support each other. To me, that is the antithesis of the sentiment described above. I have vivid memories of an encounter in Santiago in 2016 when I came across a pilgrim I had seen once, a few nights before, when he was really struggling with physical issues. To be honest, I felt happier for his successful arrival in Santiago than I did for my own.In fact in many ways I can’t think of too many things less ‘teamy’ than a Camino. It’s quite a selfish endeavour. I don’t mean that in the negative sense of the word, but more a need to be single minded, tunnel visioned and adopt a ‘me first’ approach
Thanks David. I wasn’t really referring to whether people are supportive or cooperative. To me that’s just part of everyday life and for most easy to achieve despite a sharp focus on your own journey. Yes of course people will be pleased with other folks achieving their objectives. Again (thankfully) that’s just normal human behaviour. A sharp focus on your own journey and wanting the best for others can co-exist.My understanding of my experience is different. For me, one of the glories of the Camino experience is how it is cooperative rather than competitive; how everyone is everyone else's cheerleader; how pilgrims seem to support each other. To me, that is the antithesis of the sentiment described above. I have vivid memories of an encounter in Santiago in 2016 when I came across a pilgrim I had seen once, a few nights before, when he was really struggling with physical issues. To be honest, I felt happier for his successful arrival in Santiago than I did for my own.
That was a Camino where I was not part of a "Camino family". Neither was I on my 2018 Camino. This past year was the first time I experienced that. There were no Camino families on the Camino de Madrid. There couldn't be. There weren't enough pilgrims to form one. On the San Salvador, we had one that started, but it is such a short route that it was there only for a few days before we were done. There were a number of Camino families going on the Primitivo and I hung out with several of them before being invited to join one of them, "Floyd's gang". Floyd was the only one who really had a role of the type being discussed on the group. Floyd was leader and mascot. (Floyd is a dog.)
The second paragraph was less of a response to you and more of a response to the OP, who was asking for people's "camino family" experiences. That might help to explain the confusion about it. When I was invited to join their WhatsApp group, I felt that I was being invited to join the "family". One of the "family" members, was walking with a dog (a "perrogrino", Floyd). They named the WhatsApp group they used to keep in touch when not walking together, or sleeping in different places (and which is still being used to keep in touch) "Floyd's gang". So - not relevant to teams, relevant to my personal Camino family experience which I was sharing in response to the original question at the top of the thread. I hope this helps to clarify things.Thanks David. I wasn’t really referring to whether people are supportive or cooperative. To me that’s just part of everyday life and for most easy to achieve despite a sharp focus on your own journey. Yes of course people will be pleased with other folks achieving their objectives. Again (thankfully) that’s just normal human behaviour. A sharp focus on your own journey and wanting the best for others can co-exist.
It’s early here so please forgive me but I didn’t really understand the second paragraph. I don’t know much about Camino families and always saw them just a la a loose group of people who keep bumping into each other, but clearly it’s more than that as this thread has shown me. When you say you were invited to join that’s sounds a bit bizarre. Some people get invite to join and some don’t. I didn’t understand the ‘dog’ aspect and how he was leader.. and what his role might be, and the relevance to teams. I am guessing that it was just something quirky to make the group stand out against others?
Hi dear, when reading this, I wasn't sure you're describing your way of walking caminos or mine, actually.I didn't have a Camino Family either. I did have a few people that I would run into part way through the morning and walk and chat with them, I'm still in touch with two people.
To answer your question: I was the one who had what you needed. Flagging and in need of water because you didn't bring any? I've got you. The chairs and tables are wet from the rain? No problem, let me wipe that down. Strained muscle? Would you like some ibuprofen gel? Flagging and in need of sustenance? Have half my banana and a handful of nuts. It's your birthday? Hurrah! Here's a chocolate bar I just bought. Don't know where your albergue is? Let me check Google maps (in some cases I was looking up addresses for non-pilgrims lol) You've had a really hard day? Here's a tissue, sit and have a glass of wine with me. And then after my long day of walking, talking and assisting, I retired to my private room and shut the door and was blissfully alone.
Yes, that can be important even for those of us who don't want a "Camino family." On one Camino on an route with few pilgrims, when I was mostly alone and feeling a bit aimless, I was lucky to encounter 3 Spanish men (they were old friends) walking together on similar stages. We chatted, parted, met up again, etc. They, and I, were always careful not to be intrusive or have expectations of walking or eating together (although we often did).To me, the people WERE the Camino.
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