"Buff" question for native English speakers

[ivar]

Hola all,

I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.

If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Ivar

 

[nidarosa]

It's a bit like saying Biro (ballpoint pen) about a pen that isn't made by Biro, or Sellotape when it's another brand of sticky tape ... seems silly to me, but there it is. Other words you could use are snood, neck warmer, headband, probably lots more. Why have they reacted though, do they keep an eye on even a small forum shop?

 

[ivar]

Why have they reacted though, do they keep an eye on even a small forum shop?

I guess they do... ok, those are good substitute words... thanks!

 

[nycwalking]

“Buff” has become a “common” noun.

A common noun is an item that’s also a trademark but used by many to describe something.

For instance a Jeep. Jeep is a car company. However, when I use the word jeep I am describing a certain type of car.

I am fairly certain you can use the word to sell the item without trademark infringement.

 

[ivar]

Check to see if “buff” has become a “common” noun. A common noun is a trademark that has become a way to describe something. For instance Jeep. Jeep is a car company. But, when I use Jeep to describe a car, a certain type of vehicle comes to mind.

If so you can use the word in your description trademark or no.

Thanks.... I guess since I do not live in an English speaking country I am not sure if it is "a common noun" or not. For me personally it is, but for the general population? Not sure..

 

[Ivan_Prada]

Hola all,

I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.

If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Ivar

Hi Ivar:

It may be multi purpose head/neck protector.
Hope it helps.

Iván

 

[nidarosa]

Does anyone subscribe to the Oxford English Dictionary or similar, and can look up 'buff' to see if it's gone generic?

 

[alhartman]

Welcome to the world of trademarks, patents, and other intellectual property.
IMO buff is English, but not American.
Also color like a lite yellow!!
Also to polish (my car)

 

[malingerer]

Welcome to the world of trademarks, patents, and other intellectual property.
IMO buff is English, but not American.
Also color like a lite yellow!!
Also to polish (my car)

It also used to mean naked as in "nekkid as a jaybird" or in "the buff"

The malingerer.

 

[Davey Boyd]

Here in the UK we call all vacuum cleaners 'hoovers', even when not built by that company. I call all them neck warmer thingies buffs too.

Very surprised the company picked up on your forum shop, maybe they employ somebody to google 'buff' and see what comes up.

I just googled 'what is a buff' and got this:

"BUFF originally refers to the B-52 Stratofortress long-range strategic bomber. The enormous aircraft was extensively used for carpet bombing missions in Vietnam and as a first-strike or retaliatory strike nuclear weapon delivery vehicle during the cold war. The crews rarely referred to the aircraft with its real name, instead they used the acronym BUFF, for Big Ugly Fat F*******"

Crikey, you learn something new everyday!

Davey

 

[rappahannock_rev]

The use of the word "buff" for an item of clothing startled me when I first encountered it. In my American corner of the English-speaking world, "buff" -- as "in the buff" -- is a euphemism for going without clothing altogether.

 

[alhartman]

I do note that www.buff.com is registered so, if the same people, they are working hard to protect their Trademark.

 

[David Tallan]

Words can be trademarked. Trademarks are one of the three main kinds of intellectual property (the other two being copyright and patents). Once a word is trademarked, it can't be used for a similar product so as not to cause confusion for the consumer. It is what prevents me from opening up a fast food restaurant and calling it McDonalds with golden arches and making people think that they will be getting the "real" McDonalds.

That said, there is a long history in English of trademarked product names being used for the whole class of products. Many people say "kleenex" for any facial tissue or "lego" for any modular plastic building block toy. This can change over time or by region. I'm told that in some parts of the United States, "coke" is used for any carbonated non-alcoholic beverage and at one time "xerox" was common as a noun for photocopier and a verb for photocopying. Companies can lose trademarks. Lego lost the trademark on its building blocks and managed to keep it on its minifigures. One of the things that can help companies keep trademarks is to defend them so that they are (a) only used with permission and (b) only used for their products so that they don't become ubiquitous terms for the category. I suspect that this is what the "Original Buff" company is trying to do.

Some things to consider are whether they have trademarked "Original Buff" or "Buff" or both. If they haven't trademarked "buff" by itself, you are probably safe. Going by "Original Buff" sort of implies there are other similar things that are called "buffs", after all. If they have, you might want to ask them what you should be calling this class of products. When Lego was aggressively (if unsuccessfully) defending its trademark on the building blocks it was telling people to call them "Lego building blocks" rather than legos. That let people know that the class of items was "building block" and the brand was Lego, much as the class of item for Kleenex is facial tissues.

 

[ivar]

I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..

 

[Deleted member 43985]

“Buff” has become a “common” noun.

A common noun is an item that’s also a trademark but used by many to describe something.

For instance a Jeep. Jeep is a car company. However, when I use the word jeep I am describing a certain type of car.

I am fairly certain you can use the word to sell the item without trademark infringement.

Respectfully, I would disagree. Although it may be common, everyday use to say the word in association with a like product, selling another similar product using the same name has a legal distinction. For example, in North America it is very common to call any facial tissue a Kleenex, however Kleenex is a registered brand with patents so anyone else selling facial tisues could not call their facial tissue a Kleenex but rather would have to come up with their own unique name which in turn they would patent and register.

In this case I suppose one could look at patents/registered names of similar products to ensure you don't walk out of one fire directly into another. A quick google search shows patents held for similar products such as Neck Gaiter, Neck Warmer and more making this a more challenging task than first appears.

 

[ivar]

Respectfully, I would disagree. Although it may be common, everyday use to say the word in association with a like product, selling another similar product using the same name has a legal distinction. For example, in North America it is very common to call any facial tissue a Kleenex, however Kleenex is a registered brand with patents so anyone else selling facial tisues could not call their facial tissue a Kleenex but rather would have to come up with their own unique name which in turn they would patent and register.

In this case I suppose one could look at patents/registered names of similar products to ensure you don't walk out of one fire directly into another. A quick google search shows patents held for similar products such as Neck Gaiter, Neck Warmer and more making this a more challenging task than first appears.

View attachment 62213

Ohh... so someone has "Neck Warmers" trademarked? So that will not work then...

 

[alhartman]

Smart and easy way out, Ivar. Doubt that anyone wants to defend rights to 'neck warmer'. And you are Camino Neck Warmer.

You can always wait until you get a 'Cease and Desist" order!!

Dontcha love the concept of intellectual property!!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

The item in question has been around for over 100 years - The German Army called them "Toques", the British "Headovers".
The Spanish company "re-invented" them a long time ago - I've got one that's at least 20 years old (and a veteran of my first Camino) and registered the trade name Buff. I can see their point - there are a lot of copycat version around and it must be galling for Buff to see not only the garment copied but to have their "how to wear" illustrations stolen.
I don't think anybody would approve if Ford started selling cars called "Mercedes" (which is a popular girl's name)!
My vote is for "Headover"

 

[Davey Boyd]

"A neck gaiter, also known as a neck warmer or a buff, is an article of clothing worn about the neck for warmth. It is a closed tube of fabric, often thick fleece, merino wool, synthetic wicking, or knit material, which is slipped on and off over the head". Wikipedia

Neck Gaitor? Multi-functional Headwear? But I think neck warmer should be ok though.

 

[nycwalking]

Respectfully, I would disagree. Although it may be common, everyday use to say the word in association with a like product, selling another similar product using the same name has a legal distinction. For example, in North America it is very common to call any facial tissue a Kleenex, however Kleenex is a registered brand with patents so anyone else selling facial tisues could not call their facial tissue a Kleenex but rather would have to come up with their own unique name which in turn they would patent and register.

In this case I suppose one could look at patents/registered names of similar products to ensure you don't walk out of one fire directly into another. A quick google search shows patents held for similar products such as Neck Gaiter, Neck Warmer and more making this a more challenging task than first appears.

View attachment 62213

Ooh.

Did not take that last step in thought.

Excellent point.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Smart and easy way out, Ivar. Doubt that anyone wants to defend rights to 'neck warmer'. And you are Camino Neck Warmer.

You can always wait until you get a 'Cease and Desist" order!!

Dontcha love the concept of intellectual property!!

Dontcha hate the idea of coming up with a good idea and a dozen or so companies ripping you off

 

[TatiLie]

There's a brand in Facebook advertising an identical product and they don't use the name Buff (where are they when you need it? I can't find the ad anymore!)
Icebreaker has also their tube scarf and call it 'chute' (Apex Chute and Flexi Chute)
Other names I've heard for this type of accessory are
• tube scarf
• snood (big warm knitted ones)
• infinity scarf (the very long ones)
• multi-use sport scarf (very descriptive!)

 

[nycwalking]

Ear, nose, and throat warmer.

 

[Sho]

A vote for "neck gaiter."

 

[Kathor1]

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.
If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?)

For the European Union, it's https://euipo.europa.eu . Original Buff S.A. is a Spanish company with headquarters in Barcelona. They have several registered trademarks on name and logo. The trademark number for the word is 009201856.

 

[David Tallan]

I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..

That does it except that they are just as often worn on the head as on the neck.

Personally, I like tube scarf, if the Buff people haven't provided an alternative.

 

[Deleted member 73892]

“Can I see you in the buff wearing just your buff whilst you buff-up the silverware and may I say you are such a buff when it comes to your particular expertise, but why do you look such a buff colour? You exercise so much your body is really buff!”
You shouldn't have to research the ownwership - ask for the company's name and trade register and if he's just 'bluffing' then they won't get back to you. If you just check their website it should be clear on their product lists if there is a copyright on the product - but 'snood' was suggested which sounds kool. How about asking for suggestions from members as to a good 'Camino' name then you can own and use that?
May I suggest 'Snock' - between 'sock' and 'neck' - I don't want royalties, but perhaps our fellow members have a suggestion? -BUT get the one you chose Trademarked - copyrighteded.
Alles gutte und Buen Camino. K

 

[Jeff Crawley]

That does it except that they are just as often worn on the head as on the neck.

Personally, I like tube scarf, if the Buff people haven't provided an alternative.

Yep, Tube Scarf is a good name

 

[miguel_gp]

Can you just call it an "Ivar"?

 

[ivar]

For the European Union, it's https://euipo.europa.eu . As I said already, Original Buff S.A. is a Spanish company with headquarters in Barcelona. They have several registered trademarks on name and logo. The trademark number for the word is 009201856.

Thats it.. they have it trademarked. Will have a think about what to call them then...

 

[Deleted member 73892]

Thats it.. they have it trademarked. Will have a think about what to call them then...

Snock!

 

[amancio]

Tube scarf sounds quite descriptive. This is a common issue, even for every day things like "velcro". From a linguist forum I often visit, I get

braga de cuello

Hola, Alguien sabría cómo se dice en inglés una braga de cuello? esa que se pone la gente cuando hace mucho frío. Gracias

forum.wordreference.com

neck gaiter
neck gator
I do not think you can trademark things like "neck warmer" in two words, it should be safe enough, maybe somebody registered "NeckWarmer" or something like that, but there is a limit to what you can register.

I would definitely go "neck gaiter" or "neck warmer",

Neck gaiter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[amancio]

just go for neck warmner or neck gaiter, the worst case scenario is, they might ask you to change it again, no problem!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Can you just call it an "Ivar"?

Ooh! Think of the advertising campaign: "Ivar headwarmer . . . . do you?"

 

[Betterisgood]

I like Tube Scarf, I only use my 'buff' on my head never my neck.
MaryEllen

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Which image is from an Original Buff® packaging and which is the copycat?



or

 

[Texas Walker]

Hola all,

I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.

If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Ivar

You could try neck gaiter too. (I see this has lready been suggested.) Remembering to Capitalize the official brand name stuff might also help...where did they register it as a trademark? 'Cause "representatives" may be going off of a different nations rules, and it sounds like you should see if there is a lawyer in your family that can and will answer some questions for you.

 

[dougfitz]

The term is protected here in Australia for Class 25 items - Ready-made clothing for external and internal use; handkerchiefs (not included in other classes), caps, footwear (except orthopedic footwear) and headgear; all the aforesaid excluding products made from buffalo leather. The term also appears in a number of other listings on the IP Australia search engine.

 

[Kathor1]

The use of the word "buff" for an item of clothing startled me when I first encountered it. In my American corner of the English-speaking world, "buff" -- as "in the buff" -- is a euphemism for going without clothing altogether.

The guy from Catalonia who created the brandname Buff, is quoted as saying that he made up the name and it's derived from bufanda which means scarf in English.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

It seems the Spanish Scouting Association calls them a "bandana tubular"

 

[Juspassinthru]

Curious if everyone selling them on Amazon got a letter

I’d go with Neck Gaiter as previously suggested.

 

[Derrybiketours]

It's a Camino buff so why not call it a Cabuff

 

[dougfitz]

Ohh... so someone has "Neck Warmers" trademarked? So that will not work then...

I could not find a listing for this term on an IP Australia search, which would indicate that there might be patent protection for a particular product, but not trademark protection for the term. There are a number of protected terms containing the word 'warmer' but not 'Neck Warmer' or 'Neck Warmers'.

 

[oursonpolaire]

“Buff” has become a “common” noun.

A common noun is an item that’s also a trademark but used by many to describe something.

For instance a Jeep. Jeep is a car company. However, when I use the word jeep I am describing a certain type of car.

I am fairly certain you can use the word to sell the item without trademark infringement.

Common sense would say so, but there is an entire community of intellectual property lawyers, enough to populate the Francese from Sarria, who would say otherwise, and there are many many cases on this. My quick reading of Canadian law would substantiate Ivar's position, but Ivar is in Spain! European Community law and domestic Spanish law would rule here. Best to change the name!

 

[freeflyer123]

English speaker here and I was intrigued with the question because, until now, I hadn't even heard of a Buff. When I read some of the suggestions of what you could call it, I then realised that it was indeed a Snood, or Neck Warmer or Head Scarf - all words I am familiar with .

 

[nickpellatt]

Native speaker and occasional language teacher here.

Buff is, I'm pretty sure, the trade name for a snood. Just as Coke is a trade name for a cola.

Snood is the name UK English speakers are most likely to know I think.

 

[AlexanderAZ]

I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..

First, I completely understand Buff's position. That said, I think your replacement choice, particularly the word "warmers", communicates the item is for cooler weather and may limit your sales. I've used Buff's (yes, the original) since the company first started and for thousands of miles on my feet and two wheels in every imaginable weather condition as well as for a plethora of other purposes (for example during my Camino I ripped mine in half to make a tourniquet for a pilgrim in a medical emergency). Ivar, perhaps "Multi-Functional Head/Neck wear" would be a more encompassing description? By the way, thanks for all you do for the pilgrim community.

 

[VNwalking]

More descriptive would be 'multipurpose neck warmer.'
Adding the 'multipurpose' makes it clear what you're talking about.
Snood, et all are words only some people will be familiar with.

 

[Nana6]

I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..

I would say Camino neck / head protectors.
A quick search on Amazon showed the Buff brand but many said scarf, headwear.
If I go into a store in the US and asked for a buff, I will be shown different brands.

 

[trecile]

I wouldn't call it a neck warmer, as many people wear them dampened in water in the summer as a neck cooler. I have seen similar products advertised as "neck gaiters". I think that multi-purpose tubular head and neck scarf would be a good description.

 

[Paul McAmino]

Hola all,

I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.

If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Ivar

Hi Ivar,

I’ve heard it referred to as a “neck gaiter” when futbol players wear them on chilly evenings.
In some parts of the world, the word “buff” is indeed a trademark when referring to a certain brand of neck gaiter.

I hope this helps.

All the best,
Paul

 

[TSchulen]

Multi-Purpose Head/Neck cover

 

[JohnMcM]

Camivarap.

 

[Tincatinker]

looks like it is a generic and in much to general use and with variable meanings to be trade-marked to me: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/buff

Urban Dictionary: buff

A person that has big/huge muscles and good looks

www.urbandictionary.com

Definition of BUFF

a garment (such as a uniform) made of buff leather; the state of being nude; a moderate orange yellow… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of buff | Dictionary.com

Buff definition, a soft, thick, light-yellow leather with a napped surface, originally made from buffalo skin but later also from other skins, used for making belts, pouches, etc. See more.

www.dictionary.com

Buff Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary

Buff definition: A soft, thick, undyed leather made chiefly from the skins of buffalo, elk, or oxen.

www.yourdictionary.com

I guess there was no one around with sufficient interest to challenge the original trade-mark application though it probably should have been rejected. Otherwise some bugger will eventually TM shoes, boots and underpants.

Take the Capitalisation out or transliterate to "boeuf"

 

[Deleted member 43985]

As a suggestion, how about "The Santiago S'Necker" - Protecting Peregrinos from the elements since 2004.

 

[blueskywa]

I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..

And that they are....love my 3 "Camino Neck Warmers"!

 

[FSP]

How about not using an english word for them, maybe cabeza de cocodrilo. I find it kind of catchy and as a North American I would definatley want to be seen in a cabeza de cocodrilo.

 

[MinaKamina]

Hola all,

I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.

If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Ivar

Buff is a Spanish / Catalan company.

The item is called neck warmer or - cooler.

 

[Bert45]

I would not say that "buff" is a common noun. I have never heard of an item of clothing described as a "buff" in all my 70+ years. Although many people call any vacuum cleaner a "hoover", they would be put right by Hoover if they ever described a vacuum cleaner other than a Hoover as a hoover. You can see why if there was a headline such as "Toddler killed by hoover", or "House destroyed in fire started by hoover". It is my belief (correct me if I'm wrong) that you cannot trademark everyday common words. So I could not trademark "Spade" or "Fork", but I could trademark "Spayd" or "4k". Although "buff" is an everyday common word in English, it is not so in Spanish, which is presumably why "Original Buff" could trademark it in Spain.

 

[trecile]

You won't find tissues that are not Kleenex advertised as Kleenex, vacuum cleaners that are not Hoovers advertised as Hoovers, or hook and look tape that is not Velcro advertised as Velcro, despite the fact that these words have passed into common usage. Buff is a trademarked name, so you cannot advertise something that is not made by Buff as a Buff.

 

[dougfitz]

Otherwise some bugger will eventually TM shoes, boots and underpants.

I think that the horse has bolted on this. In the US there are 214 live trademarks containing the word 'buff', and in Australia 163 instances where a term containing 'buff' is currently protected. The EU IPO site isn't responding right now, so I would be guessing on how many trademarks containing the work have trademark protection there.

 

[Darby67]

Neck cozy!

 

[C clearly]

I had never heard the word "buff" used to describe neck clothing until that Spanish company came along. If it is true that they created this unique usage, maybe they can protect it. If they tried to copyright the name "Buff" for a polishing cloth, (to "buff" shoes, for example) it could be different.

I favour the term "neckwear."

 

[forwardwego]

Hola all,

I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.

If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Ivar

...Buff is the official name. I bought several of the Camino Buffs/love 'em. Could you call it "Buffy". A bit tongue and cheek I liked the other suggestion Neck Warmer also.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

There is a patent for the buff neck wear and a trademark as well.

 

[K Turner]

I knew them as "neck gaiters" before coming here. If I didn't know what they were called I would probably try to search for them with the term "tube scarf," or something similar.

Maybe "multifunctional tube scarf" etc?

 

[Jbirk]

They are sold as “tube bandanna” in a number of places.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Does anyone subscribe to the Oxford English Dictionary or similar, and can look up 'buff' to see if it's gone generic?

Not in OED 2nd Edition 2009 it hasn't ...

 

[JabbaPapa]

Frankly I'd just go with "head scarf".

 

[DirtAmy]

Whatever you settle on (I know them as tubular scarfs), you have original buffs alongside that'll keep your SEO happy.

 

[Kathor1]

I'm not a native English speaker so I won't express an opinion on the chosen "neck warmer", let alone on the proposed "snood". I just note that both of the Spanish suppliers to the forum shop use braga cuello which apparently would translate as neck warmer but they also opted for an English description for their products, and one of them uses neck gaiter and the other went for bandana-headwear.

I've been using my original buff from the Original Buff company for nearly two decades - it's sadly approaching the end of its life now - and I rarely hike without it. I agree with others that "neck warmer" isn't ideal since in particular in Spain I rarely use it to warm my neck. It's a bandana / head scarf to keep hair in place and sweat away from my eyes, fully covers my head and neck when it's windy or cold, covers my mouth and nose when the environment stinks, and stays around my wrist when I don't need it. In short, it's a buff.

Apparently, the innovative Catalan company tried to get a patent (and even held a patent for Spain for a while) but it was not possible. They obviously also produce buffs with Camino designs.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

I had never heard the word "buff" used to describe neck clothing until that Spanish company came along. If it is true that they created this unique usage, maybe they can copyright it. If they tried to copyright the name "Buff" for a polishing cloth, (to "buff" shoes, for example) it could be different.

I favour the term "neckwear."

But you can wear them as a hat!

 

[David]

They wrote to me with the same a year or so ago. In my Ebay shop I invented a new name "the Neckie" and changed my title to "Neck tube - the Neckie - not by Buff" so I say it isn't by Buff but it still appears in search engines and they have left me alone now.
Hope this helps.

 

[Kathor1]

maybe they can copyright it. If they tried to copyright the name "Buff" for a polishing cloth, (to "buff" shoes, for example) it could be different.

They coined the name Buff in Spanish for Spain and perhaps didn't expect to operate worldwide eventually so they didn't take the potential meaning of the word in the languages of future markets into consideration . They trademarked the name only after they expanded beyond Spain and imitators appeared on their markets.

I see that someone proposed Cabuff. This would be absolutely hilarious in Germany (an important market for buff like products) because they have the word Kabuff which sounds exactly the same.

 

[Derrybiketours]

It's a Camino buff so why not call it a Cabuff

I see that someone proposed Cabuff. This would be absolutely hilarious in Germany (an important market for buff like products) because they have the word Kabuff which sounds exactly the same.

Entschuldige! too late I'm in process of registering the domain and as soon as I return from Ca-bluffing (oops meant ca-buffing) my Camino I'm going to apply for a German trademark

 

[FLEUR]

How about Scarf tube or tube scarf

 

[MinaKamina]

Look up 'in the buff' in the various on-line dictionaries and wonder how and why someone was able to trademark buff!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

They wrote to me with the same a year or so ago. In my Ebay shop I invented a new name "the Neckie" and changed my title to "Neck tube - the Neckie - not by Buff" so I say it isn't by Buff but it still appears in search engines and they have left me alone now.
Hope this helps.

Pretty much what I was going to suggest.

My shop sells this multifunctional neck gaiter. It is similar to the one sold by the Original Buff company but also has a few additional uses that they do not advertise.

Leave it at that or add in a few uses such as torniquet, thigh warmer, hiking pole cleaner, hand towel, etc.

 

[Viggo]

Hola all,

I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.

If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Ivar

Here is the description on Amazon,
Outdoor Wide Wicking Headbands Men Women Seamless Headwear Tube Bandana Face Mask Magic Scarf for Backpacking Running Yoga

 

[musicman]

Hola all,

I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.

If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Ivar

Hola all,

I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.

If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Ivar

A bandana,an ascot,a savant,a kerchief,un beneficio

 

[musicman]

Buff has many meanings in English - from nakedness to a colour!

Bandana is obvious - or a Savant,an Ascot,a kerchief.

 

[LTfit]

I believe I used the word "original" when describing the Buff that I offer through your resources section:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/resources/camino-buff.80/
as it is an original Camino de Santiago design but produced by the Buff company for us.

Interesting to note that the Buff company started producting their own Camino de Santiago designs after I had ordered about 4 different times a batch of 50-100. I would be curious to know if my orders had anything to do with their decision.

 

[nickpellatt]

It isnt a bandana, clearly not ... so not wise to name it something it isnt. Ditto with some of the other names.

I have one .... a camino one, which I wore a lot.

All of my friends referrred to it as a snood. My hiking friends used the word 'buff' as they knew the Proper Noun used for the brand-name.

 

[Elle Bieling]

I like the word "bandana." Conjures up the concept of being outdoors, and a free-spirit, at least I believe, in American english. How about "Camino Infinity Bandana." No one has mentioned the popular "infinity scarf" which has gained a lot of popularity in the US, and is a round, tubular scarf. I think the words gaiter and warmer, like someone above said, implies that it is meant for winter, when lots of folks use buffs for sweat. Or perhaps, "Camino Infinity Scarf."

 

[nickpellatt]

This thread will go on forever I think

You can't call it a bandana - because that is a clearly defined product, typically square in shape that can be tied around the head, used as a hankerchief etc.

A buff is not like this. Someone ordering a bandana and getting a buff would be well within their rights to return the product.

Snood is listed in the dictionary as 'a wide ring of knitted material worn as a hood or scarf', which acurately describe this product.

 

[Harington]

Hola all,

I have a strange question.... it is regarding the word "Buff". What I mean is the clothing that one puts over ones head, like a scarf, but sown into a circle. Many of you have used it on the Camino I am sure.

I sell them on my store, but today got a message from a representative of the "Original Buff" company saying that I could not use the word buff to describe any product that is not made by them. That they had registered it as a trademark.

If this is the case (I need to look this up, is there a way to do this?), what could I use as a description for this piece of clothing? I thought it was "Buff"... much like t-shirt is a t-shirt. Since English is not my first language, I ask here.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Ivar

Maybe "Buff" with an upper-case B is a trademark, but surely "buff" with a small 'b' isn't?

 

[henrythedog]

I think someone might have picked this up above, but I can't find it.

I was issued with a 'headover' in the British Army in the 1980s. It's a warmer version of a buff.

It's pretty clear that they didn't invent the concept, but they certainly own the trademark.

 

[Kathor1]

It's pretty clear that they didn't invent the concept, but they certainly own the trademark.

They explain on their website to all who want to know that the guy who developed the Buff was a passionate motorcyclist who used his braga militar / army neck warmer for his rides but it was not enough to keep the cold away. So he finally came up with the solution that brought success: a garment without seams and made of microfiber.

I mean, I could sew or knit myself a snood anytime but it wouldn't be as good and useful as the real thing.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

I believe I used the word "original" when describing the Buff that I offer through your resources section:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/resources/camino-buff.80/
as it is an original Camino de Santiago design but produced by the Buff company for us.

Interesting to note that the Buff company started producting their own Camino de Santiago designs after I had ordered about 4 different times a batch of 50-100. I would be curious to know if my orders had anything to do with their decision.

I bought a custom Buff from a Canadian lady about 7 years ago and nobody, at that time, could understand why a Spanish company hadn't spotted the potential - what did yours look like? Looked back - it was the "Beverley Buff"

 

[henrythedog]

...passionate motorcyclist who used his braga militar / army neck warmer for his rides but it was not enough to keep the cold away.

It’s fair to assume the the Spanish army anticipates better weather than the British!

My issued item is suitable for full-on winter, has no seams and is a two-sided smooth/fluffy garment in a fetching shade of green.

 

[Derrybiketours]

Interesting to note that the Buff company started producting their own Camino de Santiago designs after I had ordered about 4 different times a batch of 50-100.

Interested to know if one of these in pic is one of your original designs?

 

[Kathor1]

This is where it all started it, with forum member Beverley saying in January 2011: "Hi all, last year I met a group of Italian pilgrims on the CP. They had these great buffs with Camino de Santiago as the patttern. Anyone know where I can get some?"

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/buffs-camino-design.10034/post-61337

 

[Jeff Crawley]

It’s fair to assume the the Spanish army anticipates better weather than the British!

My issued item is suitable for full-on winter, has no seams and is a two-sided smooth/fluffy garment in a fetching shade of green.

They also do a summer weight one now in a similar material to a Buff - you can have them in green, green or sand!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

All of this talk about Buffs has led me to dig out the collection:



2001 SJPP to SdC



2003 SJPP to SdC



2012 Pamplona to SdC



2015 Porto to SdC



2016 Pamplona to SdC



2018 Camino Ingles . . . er I've actually stopped using the Buffs, a wetted cotton bandana fits under my Tilley hat much better!

 

[J F Gregory]

I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..

Trade mark it in the E.U.

 

[Guy Strachan]

I am changing everything to "Camino Neck Warmers"... that should do it..

Hi Ivar - for what it's worth, I'd go for Neck Gaiter

 

[Henry B]

Try
Infinity scarf
or
Neverending Scarf
in your promotional
You will get lots of hits and probably the general reaction will be

Oh! A snood

or

Oh! A buff

AND A SALE!!!

 

[David Tallan]

looks like it is a generic and in much to general use and with variable meanings to be trade-marked to me: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/buff

Urban Dictionary: buff

A person that has big/huge muscles and good looks

www.urbandictionary.com

Definition of BUFF

a garment (such as a uniform) made of buff leather; the state of being nude; a moderate orange yellow… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of buff | Dictionary.com

Buff definition, a soft, thick, light-yellow leather with a napped surface, originally made from buffalo skin but later also from other skins, used for making belts, pouches, etc. See more.

www.dictionary.com

Buff Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary

Buff definition: A soft, thick, undyed leather made chiefly from the skins of buffalo, elk, or oxen.

www.yourdictionary.com

I guess there was no one around with sufficient interest to challenge the original trade-mark application though it probably should have been rejected. Otherwise some bugger will eventually TM shoes, boots and underpants.

Take the Capitalisation out or transliterate to "boeuf"

You can trademark words that are in wide use, just not when they are in wide use for your particular kind of product. Then people can continue using them as they have without infringing on your trademark, just as someone opening McDonalds Auto Shop won't be infringing on McDonalds restaurants.

None of the example you provided infringe on the trademark. The Original Buff isn't selling muscles and the trademark granted that was quoted in an earlier post specifically excluded garments made of buff leather, so it doesn't overlap with the Mirriam-Webster definition.

 

[David Tallan]

Buff is a Spanish / Catalan company.

The item is called neck warmer or - cooler.

Only by those who wear them on their neck, which not everyone does.

 

[David]

Hi Ivar - for what it's worth, I'd go for Neck Gaiter

Shame Ivar isn't known as 'Ali'