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Advice needed: Am I getting enough hill training?

MainelyStina

Chronic Overpacker
Time of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances from SJPP Starting Aug 21, 2023
Hey All!

So, I'm 40 days out from the start of my very first CF from SJPP (though I leave in about 34 days). I was hoping for a little (kindly) input on my training routes. I have two preferred routes that I like to use. One is right at 10km, is about half dirt/rock trail, half pavement, and according to my Apple Watch gains about 155m of elevation (this route is my favorite!) The second route is entirely pavement (minus maybe 250m on dirt trail?), lasts about 10.7km and gains only 85m of elevation. I am able to complete both routes without needing to take breaks, and I average right around 5km/hour (bit slower on the rocky hill climb...)

My question/concern is: am I getting enough hill training in or do I need to find some more hills?? (I don't live *that* far from the Appalachian Trail) I know I need to up my distances over the next 5 weeks, and I've done some walking with my backpack partially loaded (I may be switching packs - long story...) That said, I'm trying to give myself as much of an advantage as I can, with the time and resources I have, as I continue to prepare over the next several weeks.

Yesterday I did the 10.7km pavement route and then proceeded to stand on a moving motor coach for 7 hours (the life of a professional guide) - this morning I woke up with the PF in my right foot screaming - though I think that is primarily a function of bus standing and not walking. And please don't think I'm making excuses, but I'm currently working 6-7 days a week before I leave, so recurrent days of 6-8 hours of walking are pretty impossible, and even with shorter distances, unless I get out at about 6am before work, the weather here in south-central Pennsylvania is blisteringly hot and absurdly humid! (Even at 6am the other day the temp was over 70 and the humidity was 98%) I understand that we all have individual challenges - these just happen to be mine. But I was hoping for a bit of direction on where I should be heading before I finally leave.

Thanks to everyone - and apologies for the long post...

Stina

(PS: I LOVE the title suggestion function!!!)
(PPS: I do have a treadmill with incline and decline function - if that helps...)
 
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Hola @MainelyStina . That you are asking this question means that you are, imho, approaching Camino Frances honestly. If you are starting from St Jean and intending to walk via the Napoleon track then you will give thanks for every hill km/mile you have walked. But even if you feel your hill training is lacking, don’t fret. Just take each day as it comes, put one slow foot in front of the other, take your rests, drink plenty of water and 30/35/40 days later you will find yourself in Santiago. Buen Camino.
 
You're doing an excellent job on your training. A couple of thoughts:
1. you'll be surprised at how much of the Camino is on pavement (maybe even shocked)
2. Your legs will get VERY strong, I'd tell anybody to harden your feet. (3-4 days to get your legs in "fighting shape")
3. The hills...okay, I was SO psyched out leaving the SJPP office because the first day's hill looked like Everest's cousin...NOT SO. It was uphill...sure. But it was quite enjoyable and my favorite day on the entire Camino. Funny enough, my 2nd favorite day was the Astorga to el Acebo stage (which is an uphill day that takes you through Foncebadon and to Cruz de Ferro-which is the highest point on the Camino). I think you'll actually enjoy the uphills and find the downhills to be not so fun.
4. You're training great and have greatness inside of you...you'll be shocked at how well you do

I had to cram a lot of km's into my days...mostly 40km stages as I was under a time crunch. But it worked out because I often had the Camino all to myself in the afternoon and it was quite enjoyable.

Last thought and to reiterate...harden those feet. My legs were fine after day 3...it was my feet that got tired after 30km's making those last 10km's of the day a challenge (of which I overcame)

Buen camino
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
the only place where a hill got me was the downhill from Alto de Perdon...that was a rough hour and I wish I would have had treking poles for that stage.
 
irishrock said:
Last thought and to reiterate...harden those feet. My legs were fine after day 3...it was my feet that got tired after 30km's making those last 10km's of the day a challenge (of which I overcame)
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Thank you so much for your response!

Can you explain to me what you mean? Don't know if it matters, but I typically spend most, if not all, of my working day standing or walking around, but I'm wondering what I should do to "harden my feet"? Any suggestions??
 
I would suggest, do as much hill work as possible. This weekend I am going on a 20km loop hike in pretty rough country with my Camino load. I do believe that hard work now will be of benefit next month.
Go well, Stina.
 

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Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
I didn’t train on hills at all really, and I struggled mightily with some of the hills on the Camino Frances. However, I was able to get up and over them even if extremely slowly. So you will likely be fine but anything you can do to make it easier will of course be helpful. But don’t stress over it too much.
 
I would worry that you are going to over train and injure yourself, or overtire yourself before you even set out for Spain. Of course, you should do whatever training you can, given your circumstances, but many many people walk the Camino without much training.

The main secret to doing the Camino without injury is to not overdo things during the first few days in particular. Do not try to keep up with other people, especially while walking up the hill on the first day. Tape your feet in any blister-prone areas. Keep your backpack light, and consider transporting it on day 1 if you are walking to Roncesvalles.

My training as a now 74 year old has always been to walk a lot, but on fairly flat terrain that is near my home. I ease off and rest during the last two weeks before the Camino. Maybe I am slower on hills than some people, but I always get to the top by going slowly, stopping often, and not talking too much (that uses lost of breath).
 
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Hey Anne!
I think it was actually your most recent vlog post that kinda prompted me to ask the question! Since you said hills were one of your least favorite things - I wanted to try to be ready for them. Despite your dislike of the climbs, I definitely found inspiration in your journey - thank you for sharing it with all of us!
 
Thank you for this! I sometimes worry that I'm not doing enough, but then the plantar fasciitis will flare in my foot and I feel guilty about resting it? Which is counter-intuitive, but still...

My first few days are hopefully not terrible - I'm stopping at Borda on the first night - in order to try to ease into things. I just got my first roll of Leukotape today, and it seems like good stuff.
 
Thanks for watching! I think I would have disliked hills no matter how much training I did to be honest. But I did it and so will you. Buen Camino!
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
If you are walking 10 kms a day and standing all day on a bus, you are probably easily fit enough. My advice (repeating what other have said) is don´t over do it at first and listen to your body, i.e. if it hurts, stop doing it. ´Harden your feet´ probably means literally that - hard skin is less prone to blisters although lubricating them first often works just as well. Buen camino.
 
MainelyStina said:
I just got my first roll of Leukotape today, and it seems like good stuff.
Click to expand...
I don't use Leukotape, so I don't know how it is for blister prevention. I use Omnifix dressing retention tape on my feet. It is light weight, stretchy, very lightly adhesive.

Hard and calloused skin can lead to other problems and a different type of blister. I prefer to keep my skin supple and healthy, covering the vulnerable spots with Omnifix.
 
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The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.

Don't wear shoes or socks around the house...spend as much time barefoot as you possibly can and if you can do some (not a LOT) walking outside, do so. Your feet are more important than your legs...you really are going to do great. As someone mentioned earlier about overtraining, I think that is a valid point. I walked, but didn't train for hills (I was 47 years old, fwiw) and found the uphills to be great...it was the downhills that got me.

Last point, my backpack was 26 lbs...stupid, I know. Skinny that down as much as you can...and then skinny it down even more.

You've got this
 
irishrock said:
Don't wear shoes or socks around the house...spend as much time barefoot as you possibly can and if you can do some (not a LOT) walking outside, do so. Your feet are more important than your legs...
Click to expand...
Well now I think I’ve been preparing for my camino since I took my first steps! I never wear shoes at home, don’t like socks - so only wear when necessary. And my job requires spending much of my day walking outside.

Honestly - you’ve made me feel much more confident! Thank you!
 
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My training had been mainly in the foothills near home with the odd hike in our South Island with my brother who will be accompanying me on the Camino. Can't wait.
 

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Hello Stina I’m just saying hi as it appears that we’ll be walking around the same time.
I’m coming from Australia so I’ll take a rest day in Paris and then hit St Jean on 23rd August. My training seems to be very similar to yours re distances and time, so maybe we’ll meet along the way Buon Camino!!
 
I'd say that many people who walk the Camino don't train at all before they go, and it is entirely possible to walk it without prior training, as long as you take it very slowly in the beginning. So don't worry too much, you're already doing more than many others. Some pilgrims start right from the couch. That's one interesting thing for this pilgrimage, because you will meet many who usually don't hike / don't do sports ect. at all., and they still arrive in Santiago.

As someone else said before, if you push yourself too hard (now for training and then on the walk, especially the first week) there's a risk for injury. Training can be helpful, if done correctly and moderately, but it is not really needed, or at least not much of it. You can easily train your body the first week of walking the Camino instead.

One possible slow approach would be (just a suggestion!):
First day St Jean-Valcarlos, second Valcarlos-Roncesvalles. Third, not further than Zubiri. Fourth, a short day to somewhere before Pamplona (Zabaldika, Trinidad de Arre...), fifth, a very short "rest day" to Pamplona to have enough time for sightseeing, or even that+a true rest day, or a still short but slightly longer walk to Cizur Menor just past Pamplona, depending on whether you like to explore the city or prefer walking through (and on how you feel).
By then you'll know whether you want to walk up to the Alto de Perdon and down to Puente la Reina in one day, or split that also. Ect.

Most people will walk the first day as presented in their guide books, which is often St Jean-Roncesvalles (via Route Napoleon), Zubiri/Larassoana, Pamplona, Puente La Reina. And many are injured in those first few days, training or no training before. Not only because they walk too many kms, but also too fast and with not enough rest stops inbetween.

So, instead of risking injury pre-Camino because of too much training, I'd suggest to take it slowly for the first days. Then you don't have to stress about training now while you're still working so much.

It is not a race, and you're not going to cross the alps. It's only a very long walk over the pyrenees foothills those first days.

Short version:

- Walk short days / fewer kms than your guide books says you should do for the first days.
- walk slowly (!)
- Stop at least every hour for ~5-15 minutes, put your feet up from time to time, drink water, take off shoes and socks if the weather allows it, change into dry socks, if needed, tape hot spots
- at least one longer lunch stop midday with feet up/sock change ect. if possible


Take the time to smell the roses or pet the cats, sit in a café or a spot with a nice view/good vibes for as long as you want, take a nap in the shade of a tree listening to birds /insects /wind, stop for a while to put your feet into the cold river and relax, visit the churches along the way, and so on. Don't rush it. Better for the body and the soul, in my opinion.

After a week or so your body has adapted, and even a former couch potato can often walk 35kms/day in the end, so it doesn't necessarily need more time to start slowly, because you're likely to make up for that with longer days in the meseta ect.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Happy planning and Buen Camino!
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
Hi Stina, great plans!! The basic thing stays to keep putting one foot in front of the other, however small and slow, and you'll get there.

Some suggestions for foot care (also on my feet all day).
- gentle stretches
- scrunch up a towel with your feet (on a hard floor)
- turning ankles in circles, flexing etc
- stand against a wall, with your feet 2 footlengths before you, and pull up the front foot (get on your heels)
- toe yoga (lift your big toe independently of the other toes and then the other way around) (google this)
- roll a ball under your feet.
- gentle foot massage with a favourite oil

I try to do these daily, and they make a huge difference. The feet have so many muscles and they do so much for us, they need some love and care.

Wishing you a lovely and interesting camino!
 
Hey Stina,
I’m taking on the CF for the first time this year, starting from SJPdP on September 1st. I’ve done lots of trail running/walking around the Alps and know my feet prefer soft/supple rather than hard, so I soak mine and rub off hard skin with an emery board. Yours may be different, so only you can tell. I’d say if you are on your feet everyday then they’ll already be tough/hardened. I’ll definitely be doing much less training in the 1-2 weeks before heading off, to give my feet/legs the active rest they will really need.

My experience climbing big hills in the Alps, especially when tired, is to walk 20 steps and then stop for a count of 20. It may sound daft/slow, but really works (for me, and others I’ve walked with) and you’ll be amazed at how much easier it’ll be getting to the top!

From reading some of your other posts, it sounds like you’re really well prepared for this exciting adventure - just ditch the ‘might need’ items from your pack!

Hopefully we’ll meet along the Camino somewhere.
Buen Camino!
 
Stina
as others have said above, you are doing plenty of good conditioning at the moment and the slight danger is that combined with your standing job you might overdo it - you're doing just fine, and a lot more than most people do. Some low impact step exercises or uphill on the treadmill might let you feel you are maintaining momentum if it's too hot to walk outside. Just try and get out to those hills with a pack a couple of times before you leave. And maybe try using hiking poles and see how they feel - if you don't already.
My concern is that currently your handle under your forum name is Chronic Overpacker. Is this a confession or announced with pride??
Any amount of fine tuning your fitness regime will be irrelevant if you look like Reese Witherspoon as Cheryl Strayed, trying to set out from the motel in the movie Wild. I failed to find the clip on youtube, but hopefully you know what I mean..
 
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walking with your pack on will help you get used to the feel of it. Hills help so you know what to expect but if you walk and are on your feet a lot that will help

If you were sedentary or not used to being active, then perhaps extra training would help

as others have said, don't push yourself in the early days and you will be fine. Most of the injuries and problems I have seen on Camino is from people trying too hard and too fast
 
KiwiJohn said:
My training had been mainly in the foothills near home with the odd hike in the our South Island with my brother who will be accompanying me on the Camino. Can't wait.
Click to expand...
Kia Ora, John! I hope you, and your brother, have a wonderful walk! I'm kinda sorry that you'll be a few days behind me - I hope we cross paths at some point!
 
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I hope so!! I think our journey sounds similar - I'm taking a few rest days in Paris (Reims, actually) to acclimate (aka drink Champagne) before starting!
 
peregrino_tom said:
My concern is that currently your handle under your forum name is Chronic Overpacker. Is this a confession or announced with pride??
Click to expand...
Hey Tom! It's part joke and part confession. An ex-boyfriend once said that I used to pack like I was jumping into Normandy ( Stupid historian jokes...) - sadly, though, he wasn't wrong! So, my backpack has been "packed" in some way/shape/form since last December. Every couple weeks or so I take stuff out of it and further refine it. I'm still in the process of whittling it down - which is hard for me - but I'm getting there! In good news, I don't look like Reese as Cheryl (definitely familiar with the movie!) - my pack is a 33L pack, which I hope/plan to carry - so, it's a big growth area for me. I have hiking poles, though I haven't started using them yet. I know I need to incorporate them - so I've checked out some YouTube videos on how to properly use them. They'll get added to my training in the next couple weeks. Thank you!
 
A BIG thank you to everyone who responded! I really appreciate all your feedback! I think my take-away is that I'm not going to stress the specifics of my training too much over the next few weeks. I'll try to get in a handful of walks a week, but I think I'll try to make sure that I spend time allowing my foot to heal and not over-stressing it. I'll keep refining my pack, and get myself in the right headspace. Thank you all again - I really love this forum - such excellent advice!
 
Get a Spanish mobil number + data while on the Camino
Get a spanish phone number with Airalo. eSim, so no physical SIM card. Easy to use app to add more funds if needed.
If you can manage it, try to get in at least 3 consecutive days of long walks of around 10 miles. This will help you know how your feet react to the day after day stress of walking long distances. Many people who never get blisters on occasional long walks or hikes suddenly find that they do blister after several consecutive days. You can use this information to work on a blister prevention strategy.

On these long walks bring some tape or bandaids with you, and as soon as you feel a hot spot stop and put something on the area. Don't walk another mile or until the next corner. Address it immediately.
 
No you are not doing enough hills but don't fret too much. If you can get some more hill work in then your legs and lungs will thank you later.

I recommend doing some training with your Camino pack laden with enough weight to simulate what you will walk with.

Build up the weight over a period of days. You don't want to injure yourself just before your Camino.

Two weeks before your Camino cut right back on the training to give your body a rest.

I am sure that you will go well when you are actually on your Camino and remember to start slow with shorter distances and build up from there.

I recommend doing the walk to Roncesvalles over two days. It can be done in one but I have also seen a lot of damaged bodies who pushed themselves to do it in one.

I walked up to the Snow Virgin statue and caught a mini bus back to St. Jean then the next morning the mini bus dropped me back at the Snow Virgin.

It is also possible to stay part way up the climb.

I forget the name of the mini bus but if using it you need to pre-book it. @trecile will hopefully comment on the name of the mini bus company.
 
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With respect, NO AMOUNT of hill training will fully prepare you for the first day out of SJPdP. The first 8-9 km (5-6 miles) out of SJPdP are a constant uphill pitch. The angle approaches 10 percent in places. But, it continues unrelentingly for the distance mentioned. At the end, the pitch shifts to rolling hills, before it levels out at the Spanish frontier, and then heading down into Roncesvalles.

Mental preparation is as important as physical preparation. You now KNOW that the first few hours are a doozie! Those first kilometers are the steepest you will encounter on the Camino Frances. True, there are other hills. Some are steep. But none are as steep and as long as the first 8-9 km out of SJPdP.

If you know this in advance, pack light, take adequate water, stop as your body tells you to, you should have no problem. We have most all done this route at least once. I have done it three times. With the recent passing of my last parent, I will need to do it again - in Vicare Pro.

It is not a race. Santiago will still be there when you arrive.

Some folks book their first night at Orisson to break up the first 26 km segment to 8 / 18 km. The second part is MUCH easier.

Lastly, having accomplished this, after your first week on the Camino, you will be acclimated to the ups and downs, and will handle things as they come. It takes a week or more for your body to get used to the customary daily cycle of: up at five, walking by six, stop for coffee two or three times, maybe have lunch, then arrive at your destination by one or two in the afternoon - before the sun is really hot.

Unlike North America, where the hottest time of the day is generally from 10:00 to 2:00. In Spain, my observation has been the the peak heat starts around 12:00, and runs through about 16:00 - 17:00. this, in part, explains the Spanish hours for siesta.

Hope this helps.

Tom
 
Training on hills? Never did just because I live in the flattest country possible - The Netherlands. In fact I live below sea level! The highest altitude difference I have is "climbing" a beach dune of 40 meters . It never hampered my many Caminos including the ones I just finished (highest altitude on the Olvidado was 1700 meters) but I do walk about 15 km daily with my dog and 20 km every Sunday. With that I'm always Camino fit.
 
Including not over stressing your feet and legs.
 
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PF responds to stretching, apparently, at least for some people. And there are the "tennis ball" massages, too.
If you've gotten to Borda/the inn, you've done the worst of the day. The rest of the inclines are much more gentle.

BC
 
Very good advice, @dick bird! Leave your hard skin/callouses on your feet alone. Not that you mentioned plans to do so, don't get a pedicure before you start walking. Your feet will be much more vulnerable to blisters if you do.
Buen camino!
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
irishrock said:
Last point, my backpack was 26 lbs...stupid, I know. Skinny that down as much as you can...and then skinny it down even more.

You've got this
Click to expand...
My pack has always weighed around 10/11 kgs without the 2 litres of water (and sometimes food and wine) that I carry. Never seen it as a problem. If you are careful and do not over stretch yourself for the first 10 days or so your bode will very quickly adjust.
 
I just finished the Via Podiensis and CP. I found asphalt ( any hard surface ) walking, particularly on flat surface, very irritating to my plantar fascia. The first really bad day was the 20 km canal walk from Moissac After that I taped my plantar fascia with Leukotape. YouTube videos with physiotherapists demonstrating taping technique was what I used. After that I had no irritation or discomfort. Everyday after I taped, until the end of my CAMINO, ( a believer in preventing a problem before it develops to hinder my walking). I am home now - no taping and nor plantar irritation. I wish you well. Buen CAMINO
 
Yes, it is indeed possible to train for the first day out of SJPP! Unfortunately, most people continue to underestimate the task and the amount of training that is required.

To make sure that I was ready for the Pyrenees, I was training at home walking up to a maximum of 100 kms over a three-day holiday weekend. Was I tired when I finally stumbled into Roncesvalles? Heck yeah! My training had avoided any serious injury and I was rested and ready to continue the Camino in the morning.

In mountainous areas, such as the Alps, trail destinations are not sign posted by distance, but by time in hours and minutes. When training at home, make sure you are walking 6-8 hours a day regardless of the terrain. In flat terrain, you'll walk further, in hilly terrain you will walk less distance in the same amount of time.


-Paul
 
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I suggest that you undertake some steeper, lengthy downhills in order to check that your toes are not being bashed into the ends of your shoes. If they are, it doesn't necessarily follow that you need new footwear but you could benefit from adding a few gel toe caps to your foot-care arsenal, to provide cushioning on some of the prolonged steep downhills. Also, walking in a zigzagging fashion downhill can lessen the impact on toes (not to mention for safety on loose or wet stone/shale).

But, as others have said, don't wear yourself out just prior to your walk. Core strength, flexibility, stamina and the right equipment are key (poles, socks, footwear and tapes/cushioning etc.).
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
Get as much hill training you possibly can, and yes, harden your feet. And most of all, enjoy your time on the Camino!
 
The best training you can do aside from long distance walking and whatever hills are around you is climbing stairs. Find a stadium a public library/monument/ water dam with lots and lots of stairs and just walk up and down for an hour or so everyday.
I do the local football stadium, climbing the stadium steps at an even pace… you will feel the burn in your quads and know you are Camino ready!
 
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Is Omnifix dressing retention tape available in Spanish Pharmacies.
 
Lots of good advice here, especially about taking it easy to start and tapering off the training a week or so before you start walking. It also sounds like you will be well prepared with what you’re already doing.

My advice to train for hills if you don’t have a lot of free time is to do squats. Lots of them. Also some calf raises, heel dips, step ups/downs, and planks. The idea is to isolate and strengthen the muscles you’ll be using. A simple routine can be done indoors in 10-15 minutes a day. Strength training, even if it’s just using your body weight like these exercises do, is an excellent short cut to getting in shape.
 
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Hi all, I am new to the community. I felt a kind of sigh as I read the conversations. I have been suffering from migraines for over five years. I have taken different kinds of medicines and found no use. Recently I consulted a physiotherapist based on my colleague's recommendation. Now I am under physical therapy for migraine. It is not anymore messing up my day-to-day routine. Also, I am planning my first visit to a Camino within two months. I felt so because I feel so relieved now. I could feel the result. I will share more once the treatment is done. Thank you. Have a nice day.
 
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