7th Int. Colloquium Compostela - analysing the myth of Santi

[sillydoll]

http://calenda.org/220804?lang=en

The 7th International Colloquium Compostela aims at analysing the myth of the "translatio" of the body of Saint James from Palestina to Santiago de Compostela and its impact in the historical construction of the Jacobean pilgrimages. As in the former editions, focusing on an interdisciplinary approach, the Colloquium analyzes the state of the art in the archeological research of Palestinian and Compostela in the early centuries, the studies about the traditions of the translatio, the iconography and the literary and social impact of the "translatio" and the current reality of pilgrimages to Compostella.
Venue
San Roque, 2
Santiago de Compostela


Date:
Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Wednesday, October 17, 2012

 

[BlackDog]

Is this an open to the public event? I shall be in Santiago on the 17th.

 

[Priscillian]

Awfully excited about this one, Sil and thanx for posting. Technically I am teaching those days but if I can find someone to "pinch hit" for me, I´m off.
Haven´t been to a university conference in..........

 

[sillydoll]

Tracy - you might have enough material for a 3rd novel in the series!

 

[Priscillian]

Sil, believe me, novel number three is well on its way. (The Dove and the Yellow Cross) This one will be centred on the Pyrenees, the Camino from Arles, the last Cathars, an opera, and a gay, Jewish "Nazi" who actually existed and whose death in the Austrian Alps is still a matter for suspicion! Have to wait a bit for this one as I have to promote El Báculo de Santiago which is St James´Rooster in Spanish edition, out November 8th, and, am trying just to make a living with my new language academy to support The Little Fox House!
Life is never dull though!
(And by the way...check Amazon Look Inside and you might see a thank you to a certain person from South Africa! You too Ivar! )
X from a chilly Galicia and first fire in the lareira tonight... Cosy though.

 

[sillydoll]

Good for you! And thanks for the mention in the book.

 

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Facial similarities in the Gloria created on purpose?

Following miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html#p107834 and http://calenda.org/220804 ,
hoping that the experts can give us some answers, I forwarded this question to the congress:

“Have the facial similarities of the 3 protagonists in the Gloria been created on purpose?”

Would anyone visiting the colloquium please report here any reactions?

Thank you!
Geerτ

http://7icc.blogspot.com.es

 

[Priscillian]

Geert, I didn´t see a mention on the programme of the Portico, but I will certainly see if I can find someone to give an answer or at least consider the question.
When you say "altered" (?) do you mean "created"?

 

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Un congreso aborda los mitos sobre la traslación del apóstol

reactions?

La Voz de Galicia - Santiago / La Voz 17 de octubre de 2012 05:00 :
Un congreso aborda los mitos sobre la traslación del apóstol Santiago
Los ponentes han puesto de manifiesto las coincidencias de las leyendas gallegas sobre el Apóstol con textos históricos galeses, bretones e irlandeses

In Babelfish translation:
A Congress tackles the myths about the translation of St. James the Apostle
The rapporteurs have made clear the coincidences of the Galician legends about the Apostle with Welsh, Irish and Breton historical texts

Een congres pakt de mythes over de translatie van St. James de apostel aan
De rapporteurs hebben de toevalligheden van de Galicische legendes over de apostel met Welsh, Ierse en Bretonse historische teksten duidelijk gemaakt

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/so ... P30996.htm - Andrade dice que «si realmente eso es una influencia del mundo céltico en Galicia o al revés, no lo podemos decir», aunque la coincidencia pone de manifiesto que muchos de los mitos relacionados con la figura del Apóstol no son exclusivos. En el caso del Zebedeo, la creencia del medio de transporte pétreo llegó a calar tan hondo que el propio papa Calixto II tuvo que denunciar este tipo de leyendas, atribuidas a «algunos insensatos», en el sermón Veneranda dies, incluido en el Códice Calixtino.

Andrade also spoke about other symbolism-laden stones present in the Galician culture, as the pedra de Abalar in Muxía, among others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedras_de_abalar * Pedras de abalar, Galician for "oscillating stones", are several large stones that can easily be moved by a person or the wind in Galicia, Spain. There are many versions found throughout the world; in English these are called rocking stones, or logan stones. One of these is in Muxia, the "Pedra da Barca". These are large stones that are balanced on a point, so that they can be moved back and forth easily, or even wiggle in response to the wind. These were used at one time to determine the guilt or innocence of those accused of serious crimes.
* Below see the picture of the stone by the Our Lady of the Boat shrine in Muxía, A Coruña.

http://www.costameiga.com/turismo/costa ... yendas.htm - Uno de los hechos que nos muestra la fuerza de estas antiguas divinidades es el interés que la iglesia católica puso en cristianizar estos lugares, lo que dio origen a santuarios tan importantes como el Cristo de Fisterra o la Virxe da Barca de Muxía.

Anyone?

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On this forum:

- 7th Int. Colloquium Compostela - analysing the myth of Santi by sillydoll on October 3rd, 2012, 8:15 pm on miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html?sid=3c3d31942f82ec2b4362a49c623be346#p107834

- Un congreso aborda los mitos sobre la traslación del apóstol by PILGRIMSPLAZA on October 17th, 2012, 4:09 pm on miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html?sid=3c3d31942f82ec2b4362a49c623be346#p108895

- Santiago Colloquium 2012 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on October 18th, 2012, 8:49 am on miscellaneous-topics/topic15617.html#p108951

- Re: 7th Int. Colloquium Compostela - analysing the myth of Santi by Priscillian on October 21st, 2012, 9:29 pm on miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html?sid=3c3d31942f82ec2b4362a49c623be346#p109168 -

- Re: Whose is the Pink Marble Tomb? by Priscillian on October 21st, 2012, 9:45 pm on miscellaneous-topics/topic4966.html#p109170

- ad Sedem Britonorum by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 19th, 2008, 5:04 pm on miscellaneous-topics/topic3554.html#p21583

- Early British Settlements in Galicia - http://pilgrim.peterrobins.co.uk/santia ... licia.html -

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Santiago colloquium 2012 all sources retrieved in alphabetical order:

- book "Pilgrims and politics" - Antón M. Pazos, Instituto de Estudios Gallegos 'Padre Sarmiento', CSIC, Spain; £60.00 » Website price: £54.00 ; Published October 2012; Hardback; ISBN 978-1-4094-4759-7
- http://7icc.blogspot.nl –
- http://7icc.blogspot.nl/2012/09/leaflet.html -
- http://7icc.blogspot.nl/2012_03_01_archive.html -
- http://7icc.blogspot.nl/p/0-0-1-109-675 ... 82-14.html -
- http://agenda.galiciadigital.com/conten ... -translati –
- http://calenda.org/220804 -
- http://calenda.org/220804?lang=en –
- http://calenda.org/220810?file=1 –
- http://elprogreso.kioskoymas.com/epaper/viewer.aspx -
- http://foros.xenealoxia.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7691 –
- http://foros.xenealoxia.org/viewtopic.p ... 91&p=23748 –
- http://galicia24horas.es/2012/10/comien ... compostela - Al hilo de estas palabras, el presidente del comité organizador de este evento ha avanzado que, de hecho, este mes se publica la obra que resultó del último congreso celebrado, bajo el título ‘Pilgrims and politics’.
- http://iegps-csic.blogspot.nl –
- http://ilg.usc.es/agon/wp-content/uploa ... Nomina.pdf -
- http://programacion.xacobeo.es/en -
- http://programacion.xacobeo.es/en/event ... compostela -
- http://programacion.xacobeo.es/eventos/ ... compostela -
- http://programacion.xacobeo.es/gl -
- http://programacion.xacobeo.es/gl/event ... compostela -
- miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html?sid=3c3d31942f82ec2b4362a49c623be346#p107834 - 7th Int. Colloquium Compostela - analysing the myth of Santi by sillydoll on October 3rd, 2012, 8:15 pm
- miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html#p108895
- miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html -
- miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html?sid=3c3d31942f82ec2b4362a49c623be346#p108895 – Un congreso aborda los mitos sobre la traslación del apóstol by PILGRIMSPLAZA on October 17th, 2012, 4:09 pm
- miscellaneous-topics/topic15617.html#p108951 - Santiago Colloquium 2012 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on October 18th, 2012, 8:49 am
- http://www.delegacion.galicia.csic.es/u ... letcas.pdf -
- http://www.elcorreogallego.es/santiago/ ... cia-771838 - Según Andrade este tema aparece también en la hagiografía galesa o bretona del siglo XII, tratando de saber si se podría establecer alguna relación entre la creencia jacobea y la hagiografía céltica. Asimismo indicó que no existía, ni se menciona, por el contrario, en medios clericales compostelanos, la idea de una barca de piedra.
- http://www.facebook.com/pages/CSIC-Gali ... 7349785814 -
- http://www.history.ac.uk/cihec/our-conferences -
- http://www.iegps.csic.es/noticias/-/blo ... 2Fnoticias -
- http://www.iegps.csic.es/noticias/-/blo ... 2Fnoticias –
- http://www.laopinioncoruna.es/cultura/2 ... 51371.html -
- http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/so ... P30996.htm - 8:15 pm in Miscellaneous Topics 8/404 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on October 17th, 2012, 4:09 pm
- http://www.radioobradoiro.com/portada/r ... cia-771599 -
- http://www.santiagoteespera.com/santiag ... cia-769324 -
- https://intranet.csic.es/web/iegps-inst ... s%252Fview –
http://foros.xenealoxia.org/viewtopic.p ... 91&p=23748

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my Word-documents:
Apostol –
Santiago Colloquium 2012 -
Santiago colloquium 2012 all sources retrieved in alphabetical order -

Enjoy!

 

[Priscillian]

This conference was absolutely fascinating and I want to really thank Sil for letting us all know about it. It was very small: mostly the presenters from Galicia, America and Israel, a couple of graduate students. And me, simply in my element! The attached report from La Voz de Galicia speaks only of one of the presentations (Xose Miguel Andrade from the University of Santiago de Compostela), albeit one of the most detailed and fascinating ones.
Tomorrow I'll sort out my copious notes and write a little about what I learned.

 

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Today's harvest

reactions?

- http://www.radioobradoiro.com/portada/r ... cia-771599 -
- http://foros.xenealoxia.org/viewtopic.p ... 91&p=23748 –
- http://foros.xenealoxia.org/viewtopic.p ... 91&p=23748 -
- http://www.delegacion.galicia.csic.es/u ... letcas.pdf -
- http://galicia24horas.es/2012/10/comien ... compostela - Al hilo de estas palabras, el presidente del comité organizador de este evento ha avanzado que, de hecho, este mes se publica la obra que resultó del último congreso celebrado, bajo el título ‘Pilgrims and politics’.
- http://www.elcorreogallego.es/santiago/ ... cia-771838 - Según Andrade este tema aparece también en la hagiografía galesa o bretona del siglo XII, tratando de saber si se podría establecer alguna relación entre la creencia jacobea y la hagiografía céltica. Asimismo indicó que no existía, ni se menciona, por el contrario, en medios clericales compostelanos, la idea de una barca de piedra.
- http://www.facebook.com/pages/CSIC-Gali ... 7349785814 -
- http://agenda.galiciadigital.com/conten ... -translati –
- http://www.laopinioncoruna.es/cultura/2 ... 51371.html -
- http://elprogreso.kioskoymas.com/epaper/viewer.aspx -
- http://www.santiagoteespera.com/santiag ... cia-769324 -
- http://ilg.usc.es/agon/wp-content/uploa ... Nomina.pdf -

Anyone?

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earlier:
• 7th Int. Colloquium Compostela - analysing the myth of Santi by sillydoll on October 3rd, 2012,
8:15 pm in Miscellaneous Topics 8/404 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on October 17th, 2012, 4:09 pm -
and:
- http://7icc.blogspot.nl –
- http://7icc.blogspot.nl/2012/09/leaflet.html -
- http://7icc.blogspot.nl/2012_03_01_archive.html -
- http://7icc.blogspot.nl/p/0-0-1-109-675 ... 82-14.html -
- http://calenda.org/220804 -
- http://calenda.org/220804?lang=en –
- http://calenda.org/220810?file=1 –
- http://foros.xenealoxia.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7691 –
- http://iegps-csic.blogspot.nl –
- http://programacion.xacobeo.es/en -
- http://programacion.xacobeo.es/en/event ... compostela -
- http://programacion.xacobeo.es/eventos/ ... compostela -
- http://programacion.xacobeo.es/gl -
- http://programacion.xacobeo.es/gl/event ... compostela -
- miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html#p108895
- miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html -
- http://www.history.ac.uk/cihec/our-conferences -
- http://www.iegps.csic.es/noticias/-/blo ... 2Fnoticias -
- http://www.iegps.csic.es/noticias/-/blo ... 2Fnoticias –
- ttp://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/soc ... P30996.htm -
- https://intranet.csic.es/web/iegps-inst ... s%252Fview –

 

[Priscillian]

My Gosh, Pilgrims Plaza...you really do have to get OUT more!
In all seriousness, these links are priceless, thank you.
What follows is what Priscillan gained from the Colloquim (in addition to a very nice lunch!):

Carlos Andres GonzalesPaz
Took me on a quick trip to see the Juderia (the Jewish Quarter)in Santiago, in an area that I didn´t know existed. It was chucking down with rain and we both got soaked. His enthusiasm is infectious and we have promised to keep in touch. He was the organizer of the conference in Santiago.
He told me that the original path took pilgrims to the western ocean. This was the point at which the sun “died” to traverse the underworld only to be be “reborn “ the next day. This I already knew. What fascinated me was that this was the point at which the souls of the dead expected to be transferred westwards to the islands of Paradise, of the blessed: “Avalon” and the Tir Na Nog of Irish legend, or perhaps, as I pointed out The Grey Isles of Tolkien. This is a theme equally prevalent in Sweden I discovered. I cannot help but wonder that this is perhaps a point at which the pilgrim becomes quite literally “dis-oriented”: he or she faces west but there is no-where else to go but back…east. Maybe this is a mythological root of “Post Camino Syndrome”?
Jose Suarez Otero
In this intriguing presentation, it was said that the investigations and excavations of the 40’s and ’50 were “unscientific” (Richard Vletcher and others have said the same)and had but one raison d’etre: “an ideological necessity to demonstrate that the tomb was that of St. James”. Remember this is Franco´s time. A quote I neglected to reference said: “What was once merely self-evident is now considered history, but it is faith rather than human.”
Xose Manuel Andrade Carnadas
I had the great good fortune to spend quite a bit of time speaking with this professor of Medieval History at the USC who told me he had read and enjoyed Pilgrimage to Heresy. (!) The idea of the “stone boat”, he said, is not exclusive to Galicia but is found in other cultures as well. The question seemed to b whether these were influenced by the stories of St James (and the Virgen de la Barca in Muxia) or vice versa. Nobody seems to know. He spoke of “fallacies of no use to academic historians” but whether this was a quote or not I am sorry to say I did not record it in my notes. You all know my views on this subject anyway. He also spoke about settlements in “Brithonia” (in the Provincia de Lugo) which were almost certainly via Brittany and Britain. I have yet to go there to investigate…next year!
Oh and by the way: none of the books of the “Codex Calixtinus” (The Liber Sancto Jacobi) refer to a stone boat…
From the lovely Professor Shatzmiller from the University of Toronto and Duke University in the United States (and whom I asked to be my thesis advisor in a future life), I learned that Jews in the Middle Ages were intrigued with the cult of relics, and that one pilgrim from the Ukraine who spoke only his own Slavic language said that he “hoped his bretherin would help him to meet his goal” (of pilgrimage to Jerusalem). There is another thread on this Forum right now which may very well relate to this and that is on the question of travelling without money. But I digress…) The story that the 12th century coffin of Daniel (supposedly) was suspended between the banks of the Tigris and that no fishing was allowed for 2 miles in either direction had that distinguished company of professors laughing out loud.
Ramon Izquierdo Perrin
I saw a lot of very beautiful paintings from several churches and cathedrals most in Spain but not all. I discovered that many of these are in Avila which I might add was the seat of the bishopric of Priscillian. Whether there is any connection or not I didn´t dare ask! Dr. Izquierdo Perrin has VERY close connections with the Cathedral. I also learned (via a question I made) that although there is iconography of the Virgen del Pilar in plenty, virtually none exists of the Virgen de la Barca outside of Muxia itself. The general feeling I got was this was of a much lesser importance but I didn´t get the chance to ask why. I also found out that in this iconography, those apostles who have written a gospel will hold a book with the pages open. Those not will have it closed.
I also FINALLY got an answer to my “pink marble tomb” question but for that see the relevant post!
I spoke with a graduate student who said that NONE of the graves under the cathedral are Roman, and none predate the Middle Ages. I said I hoped that he was wrong.
Carlos Baliñas Perez of the USC was an entertaining lunchtime companion. He told me that the kingdom of Gallaecia predates the Kingdom of Asturias and not vice versa as I had always supposed it to be. Apparently, Galicia in the 9th century was considerably more populated than Asturias even though that was where the kings were (in Oviedo). I was very interested to hear him say that the first “pilgrimage” (i.e. from Alfonso the II the king at the time of the “discovery”) “was purely a political one”. Having James on your side with the Moors at the doors was a good move… He also said that the relics of the Apostle are never mentioned in the Chronicles of Asturias.
Professor Richard Bauckman of Cambridge University, and another lunchtime companion, spoke extensively on the various Jameses in the New Testament which finally helped me to sort them out. I asked about the fact that Diego Gelmirez – first archbishop and the subject of my new book – had not one head of Santiago but two. It seems that this is still far from resolved! He was kind enough to give me the full version of his paper which I am currently reading with great delight. He liked my jokes…
Reginald Denys Pringle spoke at length on the Church of St James in Jerusalem which is run by Armenian monks with very strict rules about access. It looks to be a really beautiful spot and one I would dearly love to visit someday. It would seem that Santiago´s “head remained in Jerusalem” according to legend which naturally prompted me to ask impertinent questions about the “authentification” of the re-discovery of the late 1880´s which meant that a head needed to be used as a comparison basic and is one I won´t go into here! He liked my jokes too.
Three were a few others which I am sorry if I am neglecting to mention them. They were mostly about The Holy Land.
The very last paper was an eye opener. Dr Noga Collins-Kreiner of the University of Haifa, spoke of her very extensive research into pilgrimage and the modern day reasons for pilgrimage. I think in many ways, the organisers kept the best for last. The question of a “pilgrim life cycle” came up. Will this fascination with the Camino (and don´t forget it was virtually lost until the 1970’s) wain: in my question, will the “pilgrim bus” and the Compostelana cause it to strangle itself to death? It seems that my comment of “Secular Pilgrimage” is not far off the mark according to this professor´s research but religious pilgrimage doesn´t seem to be high on the list: pilgrims are going on “Dark Pilgrimage” to disaster sights or to graves of such notables (?) as Jim Morrison. A search for spiritual meaning appears to be by far the greatest motivator for pilgrims going to Santiago or Dharmasalama and everywhere in between. The question of Camino Tourism, of course ,was very much on everyone´s lips and she generated more questions than anybody else had done. It was a brilliant paper and well documented. We have corresponded and will continue to do so I hope.
All in all, and despite the 68 euro parking ticket, I had a wonderful time, made some great contacts, comported myself very well despite being a novelist and not a historian, and I´d like here to thank both the organisers of the Colloquium (and speakers, of course) and Silly Doll for letting me in on something from her base in South Africa which I – at 70 klms from Santiago – otherwise would have known nothing about!
It sure was good to be back in the Halls of Academe!!!

 

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

He also spoke about settlements in “Brithonia” (in the Provincia de Lugo) which were almost certainly via Brittany and Britain. I have yet to go there to investigate…next year!

Wonderful post, Tracy! You know what to do next winter when pilgrims have gone home.
The quote led to ad Sedem Britonorum in miscellaneous-topics/topic3554.html#p21583

 

[sillydoll]

Thank you for this fascinating report back on the congress Tracy. Your enthusiasm and excitement jumps out between the lines!