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447,704 and still counting!

Bradypus

Migratory hermit
Time of past OR future Camino
Too many and too often!
When the Santiago pilgrim office opened this morning the running total of Compostelas issued for this year stood at 445,807. Today they handed out another 1,897. Making the new total for the year to date 447,704. More than were issued in the whole of 2023 (446,078) which was itself a new record year. And there are still nearly 3 months left of this year.
 
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My initial thought was that 500,000 would be quite a stretch, however when you consider that the numbers early this year were up by 18 percent, topping out at 12% up from last year is perhaps not so far fetched.
Whilst the numbers from SJPdP are always interesting, purely from a statistical viewpoint it's a shame there's no pilgrim offices in Sarria and Tui.

I seem to recall that last year that the overall numbers were 'conservatively estimated' to be 25% higher, ie in excess of 560, 000. ( Others were quoting over 600,000).

So with even just a 10% increase year on year, in 2030 that will mean 1 million people walking a Camino.....
 
Whilst the numbers from SJPdP are always interesting, purely from a statistical viewpoint it's a shame there's no pilgrim offices in Sarria and Tui.
The filters on the Santiago pilgrim office statistics page allow you to search for numbers who received Compostelas who started from Sarria and Tui or other popular towns and also to break the figures down further by nationality and sex and month.
 
The filters on the Santiago pilgrim office statistics page allow you to search for numbers who received Compostelas who started from Sarria and Tui or other popular towns and also to break the figures down further by nationality and sex and month.
Oh yippie, Camino statistics again ☺️. The website is such a tempting place to play around with the options for filtering.

I did just that: I set the filters to Camino Francés without the starting point Sarria. Note that the numbers do not reflect feet on the ground, they reflect feet on the ground of those who got counted because they went to the Pilgrims Office.

As to the numbers for the Camino Frances with all starting points included except Sarria: There is no increase but rather stagnation or even a modest decrease in recent years. The last figure (69,561 for 2024) will obviously still increase during Oct-Dec but it is not going to beat records either.

It just confirms that the numbers increase elsewhere: on other Caminos and from Sarria.
Frances without Sarria.jpg
 
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I seem to recall that last year that the overall numbers were 'conservatively estimated' to be 25% higher, ie in excess of 560, 000. ( Others were quoting over 600,000).
These were numbers seen on the forum for the Holy Year 2021 before we knew that Covid would change travel patterns and travel options. They were pure fantasy figures, derived from a simplistic extrapolation where the poster had not bothered to familiarise himself with behaviour patterns and other realistic factors.
 
The filters on the Santiago pilgrim office statistics page allow you to search for numbers who received Compostelas who started from Sarria and Tui or other popular towns and also to break the figures down further by nationality and sex and month.
I'd completely forgotten, thanks! A long time since I played with that element of the system. ( Too hard on my phone)
Talk about a 'Homer' moment....
 
€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
1 million must be 6000 compostelas on a busy day. Santiago has 8.000 acommodation places right now.
Indeed. So allowing for those of us who do not register that means that approximately 50% of the accommodation is currently filled by pilgrims.
Thought provoking. ..
 
What we do not know is the number of pilgrims who get their Compostelas then head directly out of town by bus, train or plane - on the same day. This is NOT a small number. There is likely no way to know, not easily at least.
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
When the Santiago pilgrim office opened this morning the running total of Compostelas issued for this year stood at 445,807. Today they handed out another 1,897. Making the new total for the year to date 447,704. More than were issued in the whole of 2023 (446,078) which was itself a new record year. And there are still nearly 3 months left of this year.
I walked the Camino Frances in 2009. Even then, a couple of hostels were full by the time I arrived so I had to walk on to the next town. From Sarria, of course, the route was much more busy. This year I have read that on some days, over 3000 pilgrims collect their Compostellas from the Pilgrim Office. That's against a total of around 145,000 pilgrims for the whole of 2009. The number for the busiest month, August, has doubled from 2009 to 2024 and I cannot imagine the effect on the Albergues and on the Pilgrim Office.
 
Throwing my two cents (well, maybe three cents) into this discussion, it occurs to me that, one of the other, intangible reasons, why the number of daily Compostelas issued is up dramatically, is that the process for generating a Compostela was partially automated as from 2022. Pilgrims now pre-submit all their data electronically, to the pilgrim website, before arriving at Santiago de Compostela.

This eliminated clipboards, paper forms and shared pens - as disease vectors at the time. It also avoids the time needed waiting at the counter for a staff-person or volunteer to key input each pilgrim's handwritten information. As a single step, eliminating only the manual data entry at the counter reduced the per-pilgrim transaction time from around 6 to 7 minutes to around two minutes, per pilgrim.

As a regular volunteer, since 2014, I clocked these process times myself, in-person, in 2021 and 2022. A family illness and my need to remain here as caregiver precluded me from volunteering in 2023 and 2024. However, I continue to follow progress remotely, via direct reports from friends who work at the Pilgrim Office. Saving five-minutes on every pilgrim adds up fast, especially in July and August. The time saved is accumulative. The results have been dramatic.

At the same time, Compostela variants provided were reduced to one type. These pre-printed certificates are over-printed on a laser printer, taking input from the electronically submitted personal information, resulting in excellent quality every time. The Certificate of Distance is also printed on the same laser printers. Streamlining the process, and reducing the certificate variants issued, greatly reduced the overall waiting time.

As a result, the total time to arrive, enter and receive a Compostela can be measured in minutes rather than the previous hours. Once the Pilgrim Office reduced the overall wait at the office, from two to three hours, to perhaps 30 minutes start to finish, it likely has had a magnet affect, inducing more arriving pilgrims to request Compostelas.

Formerly, a LOT of arriving pilgrims would not bother seeking a Compostela, because of the time investment required. So, mathematically, and in my view, part of the large increase in Compostela numbers may be due to a reduction in "self refusals" to seek a Compostela because of the wait time. Per the available statistics, this would be reflected across all Camino routes, times of year, and demographics.

To be sure, the annual volume of pilgrims is most assuredly up overall in recent years, after the COVID pandemic. But, trying to get an accurate volume projection based solely on the number of Compostelas issued is difficult because of the variables involved. The reduction in the "self-refusal" rate on arrival is but one such variable.

I only wish there was a cost-effective way to refine this estimate. But, lacking the ability to "look back" over the previous years, there are very few constants that we can rely to interpolate the trends.

Unless I miss the point of interest here, the only historical data that might be reliable enough to infer a percentage change in the number of pilgrims on any Camino route are the departure stats coming out of the Pilgrim Office at St. Jean Pied de Port. In my experience, this is the only place that is both a "choke point" and is set-in-place over history. It is also the only place of which I am aware, that has counted the same statistic - the number of pilgrims starting from a fixed Camino starting point for decades.

Yes, the Camino Frances is only one of dozens of Camino routes. But, as a statistical sample, if 47 percent of ALL pilgrims eventually arriving at Santiago de Compostela arrive from the Camino Frances, the sample size is adequate to be significant. IMHO this is true, even if you discount the large tranche of folks who start at Sarria, or at intermediate places: Logroño, Burgos, Leon, Astrgra, Ponferrada, etc.

The remaining number of people who arrive off the Frances, having started at St. Jean Pied de Port, remains statistically significant. Measuring the CHANGE in THAT variable would go a long way towards Inferring whether and to what degree the number of pilgrims is increasing. It would at least give us a RATE of change.

I propose that extrapolating this rate of change across other Camino Routes would be reasonable and appropriate.

At least, this makes sense to me - I think. Hope this helps the dialog.

Tom
 
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, mathematically, and in my view, part of the large increase in Compostela numbers may be due to a reduction in "self refusals" to seek a Compostela because of the wait time. Per the available statistics, this would be reflected across all Camino routes, times of year, and demographics.
I understand your logic and you may well be correct. The effect of covid aside, the reduction in "self refusal" numbers could be a factor for a significant increase from the year of introduction to the next.

However this factor doesn't explain the continued and significant increase from year two of the new system (last year) to this.

remaining number of people who arrive off the Frances, having started at St. Jean Pied de Port, remains statistically significant. Measuring the CHANGE in THAT variable would go a long way towards Inferring whether and to what degree the number of pilgrims is increasing. It would at least give us a RATE of change.
Given the information below I can't see how that would work? Because if those numbers are, at best, stagnant ,(as stated), then there should be no rate of change.

However there is.

to the numbers for the Camino Frances with all starting points included except Sarria: There is no increase but rather stagnation or even a modest decrease in recent years.
@Kathar1na goes on to say:
It just confirms that the numbers increase elsewhere: on other Caminos and from Sarria
 
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We know that walking the Camino can become something of an addiction, so those numbers will necessarily include people getting their second or third Compostelas (acknowledging that many stop collecting after the first few times). And each new pilgrim is a possible future repeat pilgrim, creating something of a ballooning effect. It might be interesting to know what percentage of the increase is of new pilgrims and what percentage are “repeat offenders” such as many on this forum.
 
Oh yippie, Camino statistics again ☺️. The website is such a tempting place to play around with the options for filtering.

I did just that: I set the filters to Camino Francés without the starting point Sarria. Note that the numbers do not reflect feet on the ground, they reflect feet on the ground of those who got counted because they went to the Pilgrims Office.

As to the numbers for the Camino Frances with all starting points included except Sarria: There is no increase but rather stagnation or even a modest decrease in recent years. The last figure (69,561 for 2024) will obviously still increase during Oct-Dec but it is not going to beat records either.

It just confirms that the numbers increase elsewhere: on other Caminos and from Sarria.
View attachment 178856

Most of the growth comes from the Portugués, I assume?
 
Most of the growth comes from the Portugués, I assume?
Since you asked ... ;). I pulled the same graph from the Pilgrim Office's statistics webpage as I did for the Francés without Sarria as starting point (see post #9) but this time for the Camino Portugués and the Camino Portugués de la Costa. The development is different: no stagnation or even decrease but continuous growth.

Quick comment: Compostelas by year; for Cam. Port. and Cam. Port. de la Costa taken together. The graph is split between Spanish pilgrims and international pilgrims. I've added the dotted lines for the Covid years to better illustrate long-term development. The graph for the Spanish pilgrims shows the typical Holy Year peaks. They are absent in the graph for international pilgrims. The number of Compostelas for international pilgrims increases more than the number for Spanish pilgrims but both numbers continue to grow.

Portuguese.webp
 
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This takes me back to walking my first Camino, the Frances route in 2013 and seeing all the litter and toilet paper. These figures make me shudder.
 
€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
This takes me back to walking my first Camino, the Frances route in 2013 and seeing all the litter and toilet paper. These figures make me shudder.
That jolted me. Suddenly realise that next Wednesday (16th October) is the 23rd anniversary of the first time I walked into Santiago and was given one of the 61,418 Compostelas granted that year. Oh my, we really didn't appreciate how lucky we were.
 
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€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
Can we now return to the topic of the thread?
Yes, please. Somebody made a remark that I did not get, followed by a reply that got some laughter but I did not get it either. Then attempts were made at explaining it all but not really successful. I've now come to the conclusion that it is about nothing more than a recap of posts 2 and 3 with question Are 500,000 Compostelas a blessing or a curse? and answer A bit of both!

IOW, your reaction to a future of 500,000 Compostelas could be a not printable B***** ***l or a more acceptable Oh dear. Or else: The horror. The horror.

I am not familiar with either the literary or the cinematic output alluded to in the thread. Did not watch it. Not my genre.
 
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Joseph Conrad is reckoned as one of the greatest novelists in the English Language. But once again, let´s return to the topic of the thread.
OK. Somebody could have said straight away: There is a literary figure Kurtz in the book "The heart of darkness" and a movie figure Kurtz in the movie "Apocalypse now" and they both say at the end: "The horror. The horror" and that's what I meant with my remark/he meant with his remark.

That would have spared us a lot of comments.
 
Obviously the character of Kurtz in Conrad´s ´Heart of Darkness´. Anything else would make no sense at all.
I suspect that he meant Kurt Vonnegut from one of his earlier quotes. Kurt is an USA author and one of his classic lines is "so it goes", from Slaughterhouse 5, I think.
 
And now back to our regular broadcast….

So, Tuesday night we had 447,704 . As of Saturday night we have 457,195.
With the 833 additional at the time of writing we’ve added over 10,000 in less than 5 days.

Last year 53,171 pilgrims arrived in the whole of October, at 26,664 we’re already at 50%. The rate of arrivals typically falls off the cliff from now onwards, with only a little over 10,000 last November.

But even just adding the balance from last year to the current total means this scenario is increasingly likely
Yes, it looks likely to exceed 500,000 before the end of the year.

At the end of it all it’s just numbers. Those who were fortunate to walk 20, even just 10 years ago will have positives and negatives to take from it; for those who first walked in 2023 or later it’s just business as usual.

Statistics are just information. It’s what we do with it that counts.

What I personally find interesting is which Camino they walk, as per post #21 from @Kathar1na. That helps me make an informed decision as to where I should - or should not! - next walk.
Edited to add: and when…

Fortunately, thanks to the excellent information provided by this forum and it’s members, I still have plenty of choices.
 
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So whilst the numbers might hit 499,000, it looks like it'll stop just short of that magic 500.
Isn't it strange how we perceive numbers? This year's total is 12% up on last year's record numbers - over 50,000 more - but it may still feel like an anticlimax if the final total is a few hundred short of an entirely arbitrary round number!
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
OK. Somebody could have said straight away: There is a literary figure Kurtz in the book "The heart of darkness" and a movie figure Kurtz in the movie "Apocalypse now" and they both say at the end: "The horror. The horror" and that's what I meant with my remark/he meant with his remark.

That would have spared us a lot of comments.
Amiga, my apologies are offered. I’ve only just caught up with this thread. I will try to be less cryptic in future. I am impressed that you resolved the puzzle but then I’m often impressed by your ability to solve the puzzles and conundrums that this forum presents every day
 
Well, I just glanced at the statistics and they've just topped 498,000.
So whilst the numbers might hit 499,000, it looks like it'll stop just short of that magic 500.
They must have some spreadsheet errors. The various subcategory totals differ from the main number. Surely that will keep us up at night until pedantic consistency is achieved ...
 

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