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I do use Booking.com and I know they have my CC info and also when arrive at the places I stay, they make copies of my Passport, but it seems that this new law is asking for much more. Am I mistaken and perhaps a bit intimidated by this new law?
Thank you! Gracias!
Not me.
I usually use only two. Security…if someone gives the data away, they no longer have the card number I used.
. I would implore users to espcially avoid doing that on public Facebook posts.
Doesn't worry me.
The main layer of security with these cards is that there's typically a fairly low limit to how much you (or someone else) can use them that way before needing to physically slot the card and punch in your PIN.
As a retired Head of Governance of a large government department I can answer that with some authority. Badly.
I’m notoriously dim.
I work IT for a living. and agreed with all of the above. consider this. I use Alexa across my house, for ease of lights, stereo, etc... i can sit and chat with a friend about a certain subject, say scuba diving, and mention a few places. suddenly? my iPhone starts getting its web browser full of scuba trips to XXXX place... my google news feed suddenly does the same. so yes, they do listen. and usually? just to sell you something. but if a nefarious group with resources focuses on you? you are going to have a bad day. your data is already there, and most of it readily available. if you want an example, go to a site called "fast people search" the amount of data you can get from just knowing a name and a state? is unnerving. So do consider what you post on the internet....I’ll bang on on this until I get bored. Then I’ll stop.
You use the internet; you have a mobile phone; you use banks and credit cards; you use tap&go; you use Farcebook, Berking.con, Instagrab, you pay local property taxes, are a library card holder…
Your personal and private data is already available to anyone that wants it bad enough to put the effort into collating it.
You’ve probably already published your favourite coffee bar / restaurant / pub. You’ll have put up a dozen pictures of your so kidnappable pet, or worse, your children. You’ll have raised your health concerns that any insurer can find with a simple search when they seek to refuse a claim. Anyone who has watched a movie with Tom Cruise in it knows how easy it is, unless, of course, they thought it was just a movie. And, of course, your streaming provider knows exactly what movies you like to watch and can feed your needs even when you didn’t know you had them.
And, please remember that just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you
a nefarious person can intercept those wireless signals going from credit card to reader. I recommend you use the chip reader instead of the swipe. it is very unlikely that you will run into someone with that kind of technology walking the Camino, but? it only takes once to have a bad day.
Nah... adventure waits... and I cannot resist the call!!! lol... no, I gave up on worrying about my data being available. there are enough security measures in place that I won't lose much if anything, but the banks will. and I don't think I will shed a single tear for the banks losing money if they cannot keep our data secure... lol
Henry, I think this sums it up well. I had a newer card on a recent trip and used it to purchase meals, etc., If it is anywhere near the card reader it instantly records the sale and extracts your funds. It is quite a worry because in one case I got my wallet out to pay cash and before I could pull the notes out it was already reading my card information which in my wallet near the notes.
Fair point - that is feasible. I have heard anecdotes of people using cards to tap into and out of e.g. subway stations having issues if they have more than one card in their wallet - but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything definitive.
Agreed, likelihood is at about zero. note I don't use RFID blockers, etc... usually the skim is from a device implanted on say the ATM. and unless you have the tech to unencrypt it? good luck using it. however have heard of some establishments not having encryption enabled on their readers. not sure that is even possible anymore.
Do you go out for dinner in the States and when they bring your check you hand the waitress your credit card? That doesn't scare you? In Spain your credit card never leaves your sight or hand.
I had coffee at a major coffee chain with a friend here in Calgary which I paid for with a credit card, then went for a window-shopping stroll past numerous stores and small businesses. By the time I got home less than an hour later and checked my CC account online, I had magically purchased $600 of advertising on g**gle, and $2,000 worth of cigars from Mauritius. Just as I was about to call my bank, the phone rang. It was the bank's security department checking with me on these purchases. Ever since then (ca. 2014) I have used RFID sleeve for my credit cards, and never had another issue. I try to use cash when on the Camino for most things including meals and accommodation, except of course rooms booked on-line.
My daughter works in information management at a local authority and she spends half her time managing data breaches. It's amazing how stupid people can be.
Does she wear the pants in her house as well?
That's almost like forecasting that the sun will rise in the morning. It happens regularly enough now because there is money to be made one way or another from having access to governments', businesses' and individuals' private and sensitive information. I'm not sure what you think needs to be reconsidered here, but I suspect those involved in this, like your daughter, work pretty hard at getting it right, and doing it better when breaches do occur.
I got skimmed by precisely that 20 years ago when these things were in their infancy. A dummy card-reader and camera on an ATM, so it captured my PIN also. My bank were sceptical for about 24 hours until many other reports were made - all of which had used the compromised ATM. Since then - whilst I still rail against RFID wallets; I do have a good look at ATMs and, to the extent that I can conceal the keypad whilst entering my PIN.
You were quick off the mark. I spotted and altered it within a minute or two. Probably before you finished typing.
I can trump that. As I’ve recounted in another, similar, thread my data was collected and retained and even, occasionally used to extract a monetary advantage way back in the 1960’s. Way before the internet, way before bot farms, way before “my voice is my password”.
@Scott Sweeney, you are right. Although my recollection was that when this occurred, one still had to sign a transaction slip of some form. With NFC and the deployment of handheld EFTPOS devices, I haven't seen this done recently, and certainly wouldn't agree to that. I am happy to walk to where the machine is if it cannot be brought to the table these days. Certainly in my recent travels (Australia, Europe, New Zealand) I haven't seen this older practice. Does it still happen in the US?
Tin, like usual it takes me 4 times to read what you wrote until I actually understand what you are saying.I can trump that. As I’ve recounted in another, similar, thread my data was collected and retained and even, occasionally used to extract a monetary advantage way back in the 1960’s. Way before the internet, way before bot farms, way before “my voice is my password”.
What continues to astonish me is the innocence of so many “abroad”.
Avatars plucked at random from the ever helpful internet. A pocket full of cash and a little discretion in larger cities help me appear and disappear at will.
Meanwhile, all, do keep posting your holiday dates and enough data to let me track down your home address. It takes work to maintain a pocket full of cash
This is so true. Americans think nothing of handing a CC to a waitress. Talk about Point of Sale...this is Point of Theft. It's happened twice to me in the USA, but never a problem in seven Caminos. Now loss of one's passport is another tale for another day.
Do you want to be friends?
ok, if we are calling out Americans... I am a sort of proud American, sort of. You know the only two times I've ever faced credit card fraud? 1) after Pamplona I got a notification of a $5300 stay at some German bed and breakfast. 2) this last year, after Pamplona I got charged about $1300 from Nigeria. It didn't scratch my back though.This is so true. Americans think nothing of handing a CC to a waitress. Talk about Point of Sale...this is Point of Theft. It's happened twice to me in the USA, but never a problem in seven Caminos. Now loss of one's passport is another tale for another day.
Like I said it's happened to me twice in the USA, and at least twice to my wife, but (fingers crossed) never in the EU. I take precautions by notifying my bank of foreign travel; they are vigilant.
Indeed. There is so much you can do on the app! Freezing your card being one. Limiting the ‘tap’ limit per transaction, and to ask for a PIN after a cumalative value of transactions is reached. The most recent one I have activated is to only allow transactions over a certain value if a) I am in a trusted location, or b) if it also approved by trusted friend. Oh and turn on facial recognition.
Can you please explain what the reader will do when you have three such tap & go cards.
Or just pay cash.
I have no clue. This was a touristic trip for me in September and the first trip to the Eurozone since 2019. It was a new tap and go debit card and fortunately for me I was only carrying one. I am not comfortable using debit cards much less ones that doesn't require a pin code.
Will hospitalero/as be given a choice? It seems that all accommodation providers will need to comply with this law, albergues as well as others.
Could you please share with us how this new law will affect you as a hospitalera? Is your time of serving as a hospitalera coming up soon and did you already receive some further information about this?
I can only anticipate the duties which might be required of me in comparison with what was asked when I was previously a hospitalera. I have been asked whether I wish to sign in as a hospitalera for 2025 and have not yet replied. As I remember, whatever organization was in charge of wherever I was a hospitalera each year would ask me to get from each pilgrim who stayed for the night their basic information, from their pilgrim credencials, id cards and sometimes passports. But this procedure was not the same in all locations and I was not required to collect information about sources of funds with which pilgrims were paying for their bed. It was always in cash, so I did not need such information. I would rather not be required to collect it nor be responsible for it. And I would prefer not to pass on my banking information to every two week volunteer hospitalero. There would have to be significant security facilities to protect such information, and major changes required in donativo albergues. I may wait a year before my next camino, watching for information here on how this change goes and effects on pilgrims and hospitaleros.
Hosvol (Hospitaleros Voluntarios) is the main organisation coordinating the work of donativo albergues in Spain. We are their trainers in Australia and we have heard nothing about the new law from them, not even a mention in their bi-monthly boletín. So either they are hoping it won´t affect them or there may be something they know and are not telling. Since most donativos operate on a cash only basis (obviously) the new law may not affect them, they may even be exempt in some way, but in any case, I wouldn´t let it stop me volunteering. Albergues still need to be kept open.
I occasionally went to a grocery store for my blind friend with her card, in the days when the card had to be handed to the cashier. I'm of the opposite gender, yet no one ever said "you don't look like an Elizabeth."
It took us a LONG time to catch up with the rest of the world with the chip and then the RFID. But today, most places have the tap and most restaurants bring you an electronic device for you to put in the tip yourself. I was only scammed once in the old days—used a card for dinner in Oklahoma, and later that day, it had an over $400 transaction in Virginia.
Those who did not enter it electronically had (I believe) to provide the paper version to the Guardía Civil within so many days. But I recently looked at the electronic form, and it did not ask for payment data. However, I checked today, and got notice that the Guardía Civil no longer operates that DB. Said that the required information had to be entered at another site. I do not have a password for that site, so I can't tell you what information is required.
Well…it wasn’t investigated by cops, but…
