LIVE from the Camino Cameron's Primitivo

[ChairmanO]

Hi everyone, first time poster and on Day 2 of my Camino! Wanted to give back to the forum, for all the valuable information I've received so far (and perhaps my first timer mishaps!). So to share at this stage:

Day 1 Oviedo - Grado, 19 October. Excellent weather conditions, cool mornings but the days are warm, with excellent visibility along the trail. Maybe one or two small trees collapsed on the trail, but easy enough to duck under. Not too busy with pilgrims this week, majority I met were continuing on from Camino del Norte.

I stayed at Albergue La Quintana, no major complaints, it's worth noting there are no decent laundry facilities at all here (e.g. dryer), so I ended up with a bag of handwash damp clothes... And I think noted elsewhere, the showers are open showers, not stalls, if that's a consideration. Dinner (€10) and breakfast (€5) was basic, but fine.

I understand from others that the municipal in Grado was full by about 3:30 PM. La Quintana was maybe only one-third occupied.

Day 2 Grado - La Espina, 20 October. Today was even more glorious, sunny all day. Trail was very good again, maybe some small sections of the trail after Selas were extremely boggy/muddy but not impassable. Plenty of familiar faces already on the climb out of Grado!

I pressed on to La Espina and am staying at Albergue El Texu - can I give a huge cheer to Thijs and Gepke! A very new albergue (three weeks open?) but what a contrast to my first night - a friendly welcome and fully equipped. Very worthy of any pilgrim's consideration.

From here, thinking about doing a Day 3 full leg La Espina - Borres (in particular, Collinas de Arriba and Albergue Los Hospitales). The weather forecast for Tuesday 22 October isn't promising for Los Hospitales though...

And then later on, a good think about turning onto the Camino Verde! I'll keep reporting back if there's interest here

 

[Telelama]

The Verde is amazing, some of best days on Camino we've had was on the Verde. No one around, walking through the woods, small farms and tiny hamlets, great views, good food, what's not to like?

Great report and write up. Appreciate the dates and weather & trail conditions. Very helpful.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

@ChairmanOng, thanks for posting , I shall enjoy following along.
I'm a bit late seeing this so you will be halfway through your day by now, I'm guessing you're finding it significantly easier than yesterday afternoon climbing out of Salas. (I can understand why some prefer to have that as the beginning of their day three rather than the end of day two! )
I loved the Primitivo.
I echo @Telelama with regards to the camino Verde. (How could I not, I followed his directions) To me, it was the icing on the cake.

I think I remember reading that the woods could be a little bit muddy if you've had significant rain. And remember there are zero services during the day.

Buen Camino

 

[Adelina]

Missed you at the donativo in Grado. Agree it was a glorious Sunday. Weather has definitely changed- very chilly today. Don’t despair- the walk through pola is quite spectacular if you can’t go through hospitales. The primitivo is beautiful every which way!

 

[peregrina2000]

The weather forecast for Tuesday 22 October isn't promising for Los Hospitales though...

I have walked the Hospitales route several times, and would only hesitate to walk it if thunder and lightening are in the forecast. There can be pea-soup fog up there, so I would make sure to walk with someone if it’s going to be foggy, so that you can team-tag from one arrow to another. (Or have a good GPS track). The arrows are close enough on Hospitales to have one person stay at an arrow and the other go ahead to find the next one and then call the first person up, if that makes sense.

The route through Pola has a very tricky descent, and I did it once in the pouring rain. It was very dicey, and I was with two people who fell.

Whichever route you take, the two routes meet at the high point (Puerto de Palo) and both then have the fairly treacherous descent to Montefurado. The ascent from Pola de Allande to Puerto de Palo is much steeper than anything you will get on Hospitales, so I think that in many ways, Hospitales is the easier option.

This thread is OLD (as am I), but the information about the routes is pretty unchanged. New accommodations since then, of course, but the info on the trails themselves is accurate, I think.

 

[Cicada]

Hi everyone, first time poster and on Day 2 of my Camino! Wanted to give back to the forum, for all the valuable information I've received so far (and perhaps my first timer mishaps!). So to share at this stage:

Day 1 Oviedo - Grado, 19 October. Excellent weather conditions, cool mornings but the days are warm, with excellent visibility along the trail. Maybe one or two small trees collapsed on the trail, but easy enough to duck under. Not too busy with pilgrims this week, majority I met were continuing on from Camino del Norte.

I stayed at Albergue La Quintana, no major complaints, it's worth noting there are no decent laundry facilities at all here (e.g. dryer), so I ended up with a bag of handwash damp clothes... And I think noted elsewhere, the showers are open showers, not stalls, if that's a consideration. Dinner (€10) and breakfast (€5) was basic, but fine.

I understand from others that the municipal in Grado was full by about 3:30 PM. La Quintana was maybe only one-third occupied.

Day 2 Grado - La Espina, 20 October. Today was even more glorious, sunny all day. Trail was very good again, maybe some small sections of the trail after Selas were extremely boggy/muddy but not impassable. Plenty of familiar faces already on the climb out of Grado!

I pressed on to La Espina and am staying at Albergue El Texu - can I give a huge cheer to Thijs and Gepke! A very new albergue (three weeks open?) but what a contrast to my first night - a friendly welcome and fully equipped. Very worthy of any pilgrim's consideration.

From here, thinking about doing a Day 3 full leg La Espina - Borres (in particular, Collinas de Arriba and Albergue Los Hospitales). The weather forecast for Tuesday 22 October isn't promising for Los Hospitales though...

And then later on, a good think about turning onto the Camino Verde! I'll keep reporting back if there's interest here

Yes there's interest
Buen Camino

 

[ChairmanO]

Some footnotes to my first post:
I ended up the only pilgrim at Albergue El Texu overnight. It looks like most Albergues outside the standard stops are truly in shoulder season, booking anything from empty to close to full from day to day. Particularly in shoulder/low season for donativos, a WhatsApp in advance certainly helps with meals.

Most pilgrims will see El Texu’s signs and albergue coming out of the first section from Salas, especially with Bodenaya closed for the season. Highly encourage everyone to duck in for a coffee and cake on the way (the apple pie was excellent)!

I used Taxi Camino to ditch a couple of kilos at the end of Day 1, very responsive on WhatsApp.

On with the next stages:
Day 3 La Espina - El Espín, 21 October.
The largely farm lanes between La Espina and Tineo are largely acceptable, but there are plenty of waterlogged sections. The worst is probably a 50m long bog, hemmed in by a barbed wire farm fence that should challenge the mudworthiness of your shoes. From Tineo and its very pleasant promenade, the trail thankfully changes into very good forest path, winding with the hills.

I took the Camino de Obona detour. It’s a quite pleasant mix of farm and rocky lanes, with sun exposure that’s kept it dry. I couldn’t find much else on the Obona detour apart from the plaque. From a Primitivo pilgrim’s perspective, you can visit Obona without backtracking at the later marker, it's also a change from the wetter forest path. There are no markers on the Obona route, so have a photo of the plaque at least, or use your GPS, the monastery will also be in line of site as you come down the hill. I found Obona an interesting visit!

Up to Villaluz, the trail is largely pleasant forest trail, not too waterlogged. Most of us should take the pleasant Villaluz rest spot before the stretch of bitumen road walking through to El Espín.

I stayed at Albergue Casa Pascual n.8, a small donativo for 11 (8 pilgrims for the night). As others have mentioned, Sylvia is the most amazing host. Dinner was delicious and slept very well that evening.

@Telelama, @Peterexpatkiwi - thanks, very inclined to Camino Verde! Peter - I found your vlogs shortly before I left, you've been very helpful in filling some gaps!

@Cicada, thanks for the support and @Adelina still hope to catch you along the way!

@peregrina2000 thanks! Will write up my Los Hospitales day very soon and your info's certainly been invaluable in planning for the Primitivo

 

[Cicada]

Some footnotes to my first post:
I ended up the only pilgrim at Albergue El Texu overnight. It looks like most Albergues outside the standard stops are truly in shoulder season, booking anything from empty to close to full from day to day. Particularly in shoulder/low season for donativos, a WhatsApp in advance certainly helps with meals.

Most pilgrims will see El Texu’s signs and albergue coming out of the first section from Salas, especially with Bodenaya closed for the season. Highly encourage everyone to duck in for a coffee and cake on the way (the apple pie was excellent)!

I used Taxi Camino to ditch a couple of kilos at the end of Day 1, very responsive on WhatsApp.

On with the next stages:
Day 3 La Espina - El Espín, 21 October.
The largely farm lanes between La Espina and Tineo are largely acceptable, but there are plenty of waterlogged sections. The worst is probably a 50m long bog, hemmed in by a barbed wire farm fence that should challenge the mudworthiness of your shoes. From Tineo and its very pleasant promenade, the trail thankfully changes into very good forest path, winding with the hills.

I took the Camino de Obona detour. It’s a quite pleasant mix of farm and rocky lanes, with sun exposure that’s kept it dry. I couldn’t find much else on the Obona detour apart from the plaque. From a Primitivo pilgrim’s perspective, you can visit Obona without backtracking at the later marker, it's also a change from the wetter forest path. There are no markers on the Obona route, so have a photo of the plaque at least, or use your GPS, the monastery will also be in line of site as you come down the hill. I found Obona an interesting visit!

Up to Villaluz, the trail is largely pleasant forest trail, not too waterlogged. Most of us should take the pleasant Villaluz rest spot before the stretch of bitumen road walking through to El Espín.

I stayed at Albergue Casa Pascual n.8, a small donativo for 11 (8 pilgrims for the night). As others have mentioned, Sylvia is the most amazing host. Dinner was delicious and slept very well that evening.

@Telelama, @Peterexpatkiwi - thanks, very inclined to Camino Verde! Peter - I found your vlogs shortly before I left, you've been very helpful in filling some gaps!

@Cicada, thanks for the support and @Adelina still hope to catch you along the way!

@peregrina2000 thanks! Will write up my Los Hospitales day very soon and your info's certainly been invaluable in planning for the Primitivo

Keep your reports coming
It sounds a bit muddy... in parts!

 

[ChairmanO]

Day 4 El Espín - Berducedo, Tuesday 22 October. From Casa Pascual and El Espín where the asphalt walking ends, the trails to Borres and the Hospitales fork were in excellent condition and covered in no time at all - so can confirm El Espín certainly works as a base for Hospitales or Pola. The only pilgrims I saw were us who all left together then spread out.

The forecast for 22 October was partly cloudy. In the morning fog, visibility was limited to 50 metres at most, particularly up to the second Fonfaraón ruin stop. From there, visibility into the valleys opens up fully. Winds also picked up towards here, on the most exposed parts down to Puerto del Palo, chilly but not unbearable. Overall, the Hospitales trail remains in good condition, with some waterlogged sections easily navigable. Horses and cattle were grazing on the trail towards the middle, minding their own business but the horses looked majestic galloping past!

As @peregrina2000 and others have alluded, the descent from Puerto del Palo is treacherous, but not impacted by recent weather and the drainage looks good. The usual slow going is sufficient to avoid disaster. From Montefurado onwards, the trails are in very good condition into Berducedo.

I ended up at Albergue Camino Primitivo. Service was efficient (if not slightly clinical). Dinner for the menú completo (€15) was lentil soup, protein of choice + potatoes, cake and bread. I’ll give that it was satisfying and tasty - the soup, bread and wine was almost bottomless! Others stayed at the municipal, no complaints, but no food to speak of, so they came over for dinner.


Day 5 Berducedo - Castro, Wednesday 23 October. The uphill to La Mesa is straightforward, stopping at Albergue Miguelín for breakfast, which looked in great condition. Breakfast service was friendly and efficient, others reported very decent accommodation, having pushed from Berducedo.

The forecast was for a largely sunny day, true for the higher altitude. Rounding the hill with windmills out of La Mesa, the surrounding hills were clear, with the below Navia river valley completely shrouded in cloud - you couldn’t tell there was a dam or river down there. The dirt trails and switchback descents were in generally very good condition, before breaking the cloud layer and road walking through the dam.

After the long road stretch, the dirt trail into Grandas de Salime is in very good condition. Pushing onto Castro, the farm lanes are generally good, but there are a few muddy, waterlogged sections and the gassy fields off to the side were sodden. A minor annoyance is the plentiful long spider threads in the air and off the fences.

Accommodation was at Albergue Juvenil de Castro. Very much enjoyed my stay at this small albergue, fully equipped, which was almost full for the night. Drinks in the back yard for a perfect end to the afternoon and communal dinner was comforting and satisfying. Patricia is covering as the hospitaleira at the moment and looked after us very well.

Day 5 and the way into Lugo coming soon!

 

[Adelina]

Love reading your updates- very thorough and they capture the Camino! So glad the weather cooperated for you!

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

@ChairmanOng, enjoying your posts. Some very useful factual info for anyone else considering this during October next year, appreciated.
Bodenaya, Casa Pascual and Albergue Juvenil de Castro were my favourite 3 Albergues last year, ironically all three were under new management at the time, in fact I think all of them were in their first week of operation.
Appreciate you didn't get to stay at Bodenaya but sounds like you had a great alternative.
Really good to know that Sylvia and Patricia are still offering the same excellent level of hospitality that I experienced. (I was fortunate to meet both Patricia and her brother). My only hope is that they have updated the coffee machine, with a single Cup machine it took a long time to make all of our coffees in the morning! Worth waiting for though.

Interestingly all of them have been (still are?) either pilgrims or travelers in their past lives; they 'get it'.

A side note for anyone looking to walk past Berducedo to stay at La Mesa - I personally found it worth it. Especially in summer - they have a pool!

As regards tomorrow: you've got the hill climb into A Fonsagrada to look forward to tomorrow. It's short but rather steep!
The town itself most definitely did not grab me, I was happy to walk straight through to O Piñeiral. They have a tiny kitchen ( remember to bring your supplies with you, the closest shop is in AF) but the restaurant was excellent. (Not cheap, but worth it). No idea if they had a pilgrim's menu, I personally had spit roasted lamb....

 

[ChairmanO]

@ChairmanOng, enjoying your posts. Some very useful factual info for anyone else considering this during October next year, appreciated.
Bodenaya, Casa Pascual and Albergue Juvenil de Castro were my favourite 3 Albergues last year, ironically all three were under new management at the time, in fact I think all of them were in their first week of operation.
Appreciate you didn't get to stay at Bodenaya but sounds like you had a great alternative.
Really good to know that Sylvia and Patricia are still offering the same excellent level of hospitality that I experienced. (I was fortunate to meet both Patricia and her brother). My only hope is that they have updated the coffee machine, with a single Cup machine it took a long time to make all of our coffees in the morning! Worth waiting for though.

Interestingly all of them have been (still are?) either pilgrims or travelers in their past lives; they 'get it'.

A side note for anyone looking to walk past Berducedo to stay at La Mesa - I personally found it worth it. Especially in summer - they have a pool!

As regards tomorrow: you've got the hill climb into A Fonsagrada to look forward to tomorrow. It's short but rather steep!
The town itself most definitely did not grab me, I was happy to walk straight through to O Piñeiral. They have a tiny kitchen ( remember to bring your supplies with you, the closest shop is in AF) but the restaurant was excellent. (Not cheap, but worth it). No idea if they had a pilgrim's menu, I personally had spit roasted lamb....

Thanks again Peter!
- it certainly looks Juvenil de Castro has updated their coffee machine, breakfast was very efficient, and the tortilla española option was great!
- will do a full post on my Castro - A Fonsegrada leg! Yes, that last hill almost had me Unfortunately Complejo O Piñeiral is closed until early November, verified from multiple sources, including Patricia and other pilgrims who messaged. So meant ending the day at A Fonsegrada, which has been pleasant enough otherwise

 

[David Tallan]

Yes, that last hill almost had me

I remember that as the toughest climb of the Primitivo.

 

[ChairmanO]

Day 6 Castro - A Fonsegrada, Thursday 24 October. Nothing much to report on the trail into Galicia, the gravel tracks through the windmills farms and the Acebo Pasa are in very good condition.

Stopped at A Casa do Acebo once in Galicia and through the Pass. Though an optimal place for a trap, I found the bocadillos generously loaded and reasonably priced. Very welcome warm respite from the stiff wind. The remaining trail into A Fonsegrada is also in very good condition, including the leg crunching final climb - no weather conditions to blame!

As mentioned, I was thinking of pushing onto the albergue at Complejo O Piñeiral, but multiple sources reported a holiday close until early November. So accommodation at A Fonsegrada was at Albergue Casa Cuartel. I will say that Roberto and Gerardo have done an outstanding job with the place. It's the most spotless, spacious dorm I've stayed in so far. The welcome was warm and efficient and the kitchen and laundry is well equipped. Understand they also have private rooms, our dorm was barely one third full.

Also a big shout to Bar O'Atallo, it's right on the Primitivo path on the way out of Fonsegrada. The owners were the most gracious and welcoming hosts for dinner and the pizza was magnificent. I understand they also open for breakfast/coffee, an easy stop on the way out!

Day 7 A Fonsegrada - Castroverde, Friday 25 October. Essentially rain all day today, mostly a steady drizzle. The forest and roadside paths are all in generally very good condition and draining well despite the rain. Indeed the Xunta (or their contractors) were put maintaining the path.

So I had an original plan to push onto Vilar de Cas, stay at O Pociña de Muñiz and leave a very short walk to Lugo on Saturday. But O Piñeiral being closed made the legs a bit too long, so Castroverde it was.

I and most other pilgrims took a decent stop at La Taberna in Paradavella, at the foot of a descent - food/cofee was great, reasonably priced and a welcome respite from the rain.

I did take the Vilabade detour after O Cadavo. The trail remains excellent throughout and I found the walk through the town quite pleasant, especially since the rain had eased up and sun was shining through.

Accommodation tonight is at the Castroverde municipal albergue. As others have reported, the interior remains sparkling new and the facilities are decently comfortable.

I suspect my detailed trail reports are coming to an end, as I understand the paths are way more straightforward from here! But I will report on the Camino Verde in a few days time, and will probably do a final wrap here once my Camino is complete.

Appreciate the comments and I'd be happy to answer questions!!

 

[Luisito76]

Some footnotes to my first post:
I ended up the only pilgrim at Albergue El Texu overnight. It looks like most Albergues outside the standard stops are truly in shoulder season, booking anything from empty to close to full from day to day. Particularly in shoulder/low season for donativos, a WhatsApp in advance certainly helps with meals.

Most pilgrims will see El Texu’s signs and albergue coming out of the first section from Salas, especially with Bodenaya closed for the season. Highly encourage everyone to duck in for a coffee and cake on the way (the apple pie was excellent)!

I used Taxi Camino to ditch a couple of kilos at the end of Day 1, very responsive on WhatsApp.

On with the next stages:
Day 3 La Espina - El Espín, 21 October.
The largely farm lanes between La Espina and Tineo are largely acceptable, but there are plenty of waterlogged sections. The worst is probably a 50m long bog, hemmed in by a barbed wire farm fence that should challenge the mudworthiness of your shoes. From Tineo and its very pleasant promenade, the trail thankfully changes into very good forest path, winding with the hills.

I took the Camino de Obona detour. It’s a quite pleasant mix of farm and rocky lanes, with sun exposure that’s kept it dry. I couldn’t find much else on the Obona detour apart from the plaque. From a Primitivo pilgrim’s perspective, you can visit Obona without backtracking at the later marker, it's also a change from the wetter forest path. There are no markers on the Obona route, so have a photo of the plaque at least, or use your GPS, the monastery will also be in line of site as you come down the hill. I found Obona an interesting visit!

Up to Villaluz, the trail is largely pleasant forest trail, not too waterlogged. Most of us should take the pleasant Villaluz rest spot before the stretch of bitumen road walking through to El Espín.

I stayed at Albergue Casa Pascual n.8, a small donativo for 11 (8 pilgrims for the night). As others have mentioned, Sylvia is the most amazing host. Dinner was delicious and slept very well that evening.

@Telelama, @Peterexpatkiwi - thanks, very inclined to Camino Verde! Peter - I found your vlogs shortly before I left, you've been very helpful in filling some gaps!

@Cicada, thanks for the support and @Adelina still hope to catch you along the way!

@peregrina2000 thanks! Will write up my Los Hospitales day very soon and your info's certainly been invaluable in planning for the Primitivo

Hello! Tonight I am sleeping in Tineo. I live tomorrow to Colina de Arriba. I have heard that the Albergue there is great. Also, apparently. From the albergue you can de ide which route to take. Not sure yet the route I am going to take which I will do it on Sunday. Depends on the weather. Not much pilgrims in the Camino Primitivo. Some albergues are closed. It seems the end of the season. Buen Camino

 

[ChairmanO]

Hello! Tonight I am sleeping in Tineo. I live tomorrow to Colina de Arriba. I have heard that the Albergue there is great. Also, apparently. From the albergue you can de ide which route to take. Not sure yet the route I am going to take which I will do it on Sunday. Depends on the weather. Not much pilgrims in the Camino Primitivo. Some albergues are closed. It seems the end of the season. Buen Camino

@Luisito76 Wonderful! I know that Albergue Los Hospitales on Colinas de Arriba is definitely open at the moment. Others would have detailed previously: from Colinas de Arriba, both Pola/Hospitalites are easily accessible, so you can make a decision as late as that morning. And I know every hospitalatero will be happy to advise the latest weather and trail conditions. Buen Camino!!

 

[Circle56]

Hi everyone, first time poster and on Day 2 of my Camino! Wanted to give back to the forum, for all the valuable information I've received so far (and perhaps my first timer mishaps!). So to share at this stage:

Day 1 Oviedo - Grado, 19 October. Excellent weather conditions, cool mornings but the days are warm, with excellent visibility along the trail. Maybe one or two small trees collapsed on the trail, but easy enough to duck under. Not too busy with pilgrims this week, majority I met were continuing on from Camino del Norte.

I stayed at Albergue La Quintana, no major complaints, it's worth noting there are no decent laundry facilities at all here (e.g. dryer), so I ended up with a bag of handwash damp clothes... And I think noted elsewhere, the showers are open showers, not stalls, if that's a consideration. Dinner (€10) and breakfast (€5) was basic, but fine.

I understand from others that the municipal in Grado was full by about 3:30 PM. La Quintana was maybe only one-third occupied.

Day 2 Grado - La Espina, 20 October. Today was even more glorious, sunny all day. Trail was very good again, maybe some small sections of the trail after Selas were extremely boggy/muddy but not impassable. Plenty of familiar faces already on the climb out of Grado!

I pressed on to La Espina and am staying at Albergue El Texu - can I give a huge cheer to Thijs and Gepke! A very new albergue (three weeks open?) but what a contrast to my first night - a friendly welcome and fully equipped. Very worthy of any pilgrim's consideration.

From here, thinking about doing a Day 3 full leg La Espina - Borres (in particular, Collinas de Arriba and Albergue Los Hospitales). The weather forecast for Tuesday 22 October isn't promising for Los Hospitales though...

And then later on, a good think about turning onto the Camino Verde! I'll keep reporting back if there's interest here

Hi, thanks so much for your postings. My husband and I did the Frances back in 2015. We have been talking and thinking about doing the Primitivo. So, enjoyed hearing about your first couple of days.
We will continue to follow your postings.
Enjoy and thanks. Safe travels.

 

[Luisito76]

Hello! Today I arrived to Berducedo. Ruta Los Hospitales was great at the beginning, I started in Colinas de Arriba. Great the albergue there, Alojamiento Hospitales. However, started to rain around km 15. Plus it was foggy. The fog closed and dispersed several times. But It was worth it once the rain stopped. The sky was cloudless and the landscape completly clean and nitide. Love it. Buen Camino

 

[ChairmanO]

A small interim update:

Nothing much to report on the very straightforward leg from Castroverde to Lugo. I stayed at Albergue Nazaret, which I understand is brand new and supported by a religious order. It's just beyond the Lugo city walls on the other side of the cathedral. There were only us five pilgrims in this huge albergue. The jefas in charge don't speak any English, but are some of the kindest hospilateiras you'll meet. A worthy alternative to the municipal albergue.

I cut over to the Camino Verde after Lugo, you can read my detailed notes here: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...ns-verde-october-2024-condition-report.89451/

A final wrap to come. I will be taking the alternative Boimorto - Lavacolla route for my final two days.

 

[Luisito76]

Hello! Today I arrived to Grandas de Salime. The weather was great. Sunshine and blue sky all day. I am staying in the Municipal Albergue. It is great, clean and organized. Plus the hospitalero is very kind. Tomorrow I will head to Fonsagrada. Buen Camino

 

[crisrodrigues]

Missed you at the donativo in Grado. Agree it was a glorious Sunday. Weather has definitely changed- very chilly today. Don’t despair- the walk through pola is quite spectacular if you can’t go through hospitales. The primitivo is beautiful every which way!

Adelina dear Adelina. I miss you!!! And Primitivo!!!