First Time Concerns

[kdvanderpool]

Hi Everyone,

Grateful for this community as my wife and I are planning our first Camino after 13 years of longing to go! We will be walking in mid-May to mid-June and I have a few questions:

1. What is the humidity like? Specifically on the Frances or the Primitivo. Where we live it is very hot but very dry. Humidity affects me much more than heat.
2. Which route do you recommend for first-timers (and possibly only timers for the foreseeable future). We are considering the Primitivo or the Frances but are open to ALL options.

When choosing a route, here are our wants and concerns:

• WE can only spare between 2-4 weeks so none of the super long routes.
• We love beautiful views, solitude, and moments of "sacred silence"
• We are not experienced hikers by any means but we are relatively fit and did a 10mile hike in Copenhagen this year that felt very easy (though my calves hurt the next two days). We are also careful and athletic.
• We like challenges but we also like to enjoy ourselves and don't do well with uncomfortable sleeping arrangements. The one area that we can be a little high maintenance is where we stay when we travel. We will be doing some public albergues because that is the experience, but we will want to do some nicer accommodations.
• I have heard the Primitivo does not always have reliable accommodations and you may have to figure it out or sleep outside after a long day of difficult hiking. We can handle it but this would greatly sour our trip. Just being honest about ourselves when we travel. The less decision-making and trouble-shooting the better.

I think that's it for me! Thank you all so much for your help!

 

[Juspassinthru]

Hi Everyone,

Grateful for this community as my wife and I are planning our first Camino after 13 years of longing to go! We will be walking in mid-May to mid-June and I have a few questions:

1. What is the humidity like? Specifically on the Frances or the Primitivo. Where we live it is very hot but very dry. Humidity affects me much more than heat.
2. Which route do you recommend for first-timers (and possibly only timers for the foreseeable future). We are considering the Primitivo or the Frances but are open to ALL options.

When choosing a route, here are our wants and concerns:

• WE can only spare between 2-4 weeks so none of the super long routes.
• We love beautiful views, solitude, and moments of "sacred silence"
• We are not experienced hikers by any means but we are relatively fit and did a 10mile hike in Copenhagen this year that felt very easy (though my calves hurt the next two days). We are also careful and athletic.
• We like challenges but we also like to enjoy ourselves and don't do well with uncomfortable sleeping arrangements. The one area that we can be a little high maintenance is where we stay when we travel. We will be doing some public albergues because that is the experience, but we will want to do some nicer accommodations.
• I have heard the Primitivo does not always have reliable accommodations and you may have to figure it out or sleep outside after a long day of difficult hiking. We can handle it but this would greatly sour our trip. Just being honest about ourselves when we travel. The less decision-making and trouble-shooting the better.

I think that's it for me! Thank you all so much for your help!

Welcome to the Forum, we were all New Members once and we all had our questions and concerns.

I’ll share my thoughts on some of your question/concerns.

The temperature and humidity will really depend upon the route and time of year, from my experience. Generally the interior routes should be warmer and dryer, again depending upon the time. Summer will probably be down right hot.

As a first timer, I’d choose the Francés. With your available time, you could do it from St. Jean or Pamplona or Burgos. It also has the most infrastructure. Regards your accommodation concerns, the Francés offers many options in most places.

I’ve not done the Primativo so I’ll let others offer their thoughts. There’s a lot of experience here.

I hope you enjoy your Camino and good luck.

 

[trecile]

I have heard the Primitivo does not always have reliable accommodations and you may have to figure it out or sleep outside after a long day of difficult hiking

That was not my experience at all, but I usually booked a day ahead.

 

[Jarrad]

In researching the humidity question, you might check out weatherspark.com and insert a few locations that you would pass through on the routes that are of interest.

I'd bet that you will be fine on any route you choose. If elevation gain and loss are a concern, then the Primitivo might be more of a challenge. Although if crowd avoidance and opportunities for silent walking are major drivers for you, then that could outweigh the physical challenge.

On the CdF you will find a broad range of accommodation types in many (but not all) areas. I suggest trying out a pension first to if that meets your needs. They're great for getting a good shower and an uninterrupted night of sleep. You can find posh hotels in the metropolitan areas.

 

[Turga]

The less decision-making and trouble-shooting the better.

Then you should do some planning in advance and you have the time to do it (and it's fun). GRONZE is a great resource to start with.

Buen Camino!

 

[J Willhaus]

I also recommend the Camino Frances. Given your time constraints, I would probably start in Logroño. If you have time at the end you can walk or take a bus to either Muxia or Finesterre.

Private rooms will increase your costs so budget a bit more. Don't take for granted private rooms will be more comfortable. Be sure to look for perks like AC as not all rooms will have that. I find private rooms isolating so look for opportunities to talk or eat with other pilgrims. They also may not have a place to do laundry so maybe look for AirBNB's that have a washer and drying rack. Some private albergues have private rooms so that might be a good option for you although you may still share a common bathroom in some. Usually bedding will be provided for those.


You may be aware that Booking.com does not have all the rooms in a hotel so don't panic if you can't find a place on booking.com where you want to sleep. Use other resources, too, and maybe call direct or send a WhatsApp. Gronze.com is an excellent resource to see what is available. It is in Spanish, but your browser can translate.

 

[dbier]

Hi Everyone,

Grateful for this community as my wife and I are planning our first Camino after 13 years of longing to go! We will be walking in mid-May to mid-June and I have a few questions:

1. What is the humidity like? Specifically on the Frances or the Primitivo. Where we live it is very hot but very dry. Humidity affects me much more than heat.
2. Which route do you recommend for first-timers (and possibly only timers for the foreseeable future). We are considering the Primitivo or the Frances but are open to ALL options.

When choosing a route, here are our wants and concerns:

• WE can only spare between 2-4 weeks so none of the super long routes.
• We love beautiful views, solitude, and moments of "sacred silence"
• We are not experienced hikers by any means but we are relatively fit and did a 10mile hike in Copenhagen this year that felt very easy (though my calves hurt the next two days). We are also careful and athletic.
• We like challenges but we also like to enjoy ourselves and don't do well with uncomfortable sleeping arrangements. The one area that we can be a little high maintenance is where we stay when we travel. We will be doing some public albergues because that is the experience, but we will want to do some nicer accommodations.
• I have heard the Primitivo does not always have reliable accommodations and you may have to figure it out or sleep outside after a long day of difficult hiking. We can handle it but this would greatly sour our trip. Just being honest about ourselves when we travel. The less decision-making and trouble-shooting the better.

I think that's it for me! Thank you all so much for your help!

I can comment on the Primitivo in Sep and on Sarria to Santiago in July - but I noticed that you're from Texas, and you say your area is hot and dry (El Paso?). So let me opine, please.

With the possible exception of the Meseta, both of the Caminos, and most of Northern Spain, are more humid than where you're from. All the time.

If I remember Copenhagen correctly, both the Primitivo (particularly the first few days) and even the Frances have more elevation changes than either your home or Copenhagen. I'm afraid that your hiking experience there won't accurately predict how you'll do on Camino.

The Primitivo in May/Jun has "reliable" accommodations, but they're fewer and spread out further from each other. And there are one or two places that can fill up, especially if you arrive in Lugo during their Roman festival in Jun.

Given your time and hiking experience and first Camino status, I would *highly* recommend starting the Camino Frances from a point past Pamplona (León?/Burgos?). Gronze or any of the apps (Buen Camino, Wise Pilgrim come to mind) will help you select a start point you can get to. From there, use them and WhatsApp to identify appropriate accommodations.

Buen Camino.

 

[trecile]

With the possible exception of the Meseta, both of the Caminos, and most of Northern Spain, are more humid than where you're from. All the time.

But not oppressively humid like Florida. The humidity is similar to where I live in Oregon, which isn't much.

 

[Dawsie]

Welcome to our little area of Camino dreaming.
Given your experience and timescale, I would strongly recommend reading other threads on this forum about Winter Training. See if you can arrange a few weekends away this Fall and again in early Spring. Walk for a couple of long days staying overnight so that you get the chance to:
a) spend time together, and get used to the speed that you each like walking
b) learn how to push yourselves a bit where necessary
c) try your gear, and get used to your favourite footwear
d) try your gear, ideally in rainy weather to understand how to keep things dry
e) try your gear, and get used to carrying your rucksack, perhaps adding extra unnecessary items to get closer to your expected load.
f) have fun, meet people, explore and meet personal challenges

It may be a "once in a lifetime" trip, but don't over plan things - we say "The Camino Provides".
Once you know that you can get up and walk from dawn and can walk all day and enjoy it, then you will have an idea of how far you will be able to get each day on your Camino (and how much you want to carry on your backs - or if you want to use any of the "bag forwarding" services).
I recommend buying a couple of guides (especially via Ivar, so that you will get your "passports" too) read these in the dark nights of winter to get the feel of how these work, but only book your first couple of nights in advance, booking subsequent ones while on the Camino and you have an idea where you are likely to end up on the next evening.

If this is a "special trip", then I would also recommend finding somewhere about halfway that you both like the look of and arrange a "zero day" where you get the chance to stop, explore and rest up.

I am personally very pleased that even though you describe yourselves as "high maintenance" for sleeping arrangements, you have realised the advantages of the community of an albergue will offset a less comfortable sleep - you never know, you might like it.

Your experience in Copenhagen should have exposed you to European phone networks - important since WhatsApp is now the most common method of booking accommodation.

Enjoy planning your wonderful adventure.

 

[512]

Our first Camino was the Norte at the age of 60. Lots of ups and downs but we averaged 12 miles/20 km per day; it shouldn't be a problem for you.
There's plenty of infrastructure, accomodations, cafes and restaurants. Spectacular coastal scenery (up to Ribadeo), and plenty of solitude.
Just my dos céntimos

 

[CTLawGal]

• We love beautiful views, solitude, and moments of "sacred silence"

Based on this, I can understand why you are considering the Primitivo. For my first Camino in 2023 I thought I was going to do the Frances, but was very tempted by the Norte/Primitivo, which seemed more scenic and quieter, but concerned whether that route might be too ambitious given the elevation gain. A friend familiar with my training walks convinced me I could do it and I'm glad I did. I also don't do well in humidity, but didn't find it too warm or humid in May.

That being said, if you are unable to train on elevation, I would agree that the Frances is probably a better route for you. I don't know if your 10 mile Copenhagen walk was a single event or if it followed on the heels of other long walks. While I routinely walk 10-12 miles relatively easily, on the Camino it's being able to walk that and more (12-18) every day that is really hard, especially with elevation gain.

I thought Dawsie made a lot of good suggestions for training. I would add that for me, in the last 2 months before I left for Spain, I tried to walk two 12-milers back-to-back, then I would drop it back down to a 4- or 6-miler the following days to allow some time for my body to recover, and then back to 6- or 8-milers. I also tried to get in at least 1000 feet of elevation gain on those longer walks. The days on the Camino were hard, but I felt prepared for the hills and distance . As the Primitivo converged with the Frances, I noticed that most of the pilgrims had a difficult time even on the smallest hills, dramatically slowing down, while the pilgrims I recognized from the Primitivo seemed to float up by comparison. (It was also a LOT less quiet once on the Frances). So I would guess that there might be a fair number of days that would be challenging if you can't train with some elevation gain.

If you are still considering the Primitivo and have the time, I would recommend maybe starting in Santander on the Norte, primarily so you have a week to get used to walking every day, and also to enjoy some amazing coastal views before you head inland. However, if the elevation gain seems daunting, I agree the Frances is your best bet. Either way, I'm sure you'll love whichever route you choose!

 

[mattythedog]

Hi Everyone,

Grateful for this community as my wife and I are planning our first Camino after 13 years of longing to go! We will be walking in mid-May to mid-June and I have a few questions:

1. What is the humidity like? Specifically on the Frances or the Primitivo. Where we live it is very hot but very dry. Humidity affects me much more than heat.
2. Which route do you recommend for first-timers (and possibly only timers for the foreseeable future). We are considering the Primitivo or the Frances but are open to ALL options.

When choosing a route, here are our wants and concerns:

• WE can only spare between 2-4 weeks so none of the super long routes.
• We love beautiful views, solitude, and moments of "sacred silence"
• We are not experienced hikers by any means but we are relatively fit and did a 10mile hike in Copenhagen this year that felt very easy (though my calves hurt the next two days). We are also careful and athletic.
• We like challenges but we also like to enjoy ourselves and don't do well with uncomfortable sleeping arrangements. The one area that we can be a little high maintenance is where we stay when we travel. We will be doing some public albergues because that is the experience, but we will want to do some nicer accommodations.
• I have heard the Primitivo does not always have reliable accommodations and you may have to figure it out or sleep outside after a long day of difficult hiking. We can handle it but this would greatly sour our trip. Just being honest about ourselves when we travel. The less decision-making and trouble-shooting the better.

I think that's it for me! Thank you all so much for your help!

Looking at your list of concerns, the only option is CF. You will not get as many beautiful views as del Norte, but your other desires can be met. 13 years of "longing" and only now you start the research? Get Brierley Guide for CF and read it thoroughly. Then check out Walking With Effren on YouTube, plus many others.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I have heard the Primitivo does not always have reliable accommodations and you may have to figure it out or sleep outside after a long day of difficult hiking

Welcome to the forum.
This was not my experience of the Primitivo (July '23). The camino was relatively busy when I walked but I did not hear of anyone forced to sleep outside, nor have I read any reports of this over the last couple of years here on the forum. I know of a couple of people that chose to sleep out, and have seen other reports of the same since, but that's a completely different story.

I walked my first day with somebody that had chosen the Primitivo as her first Camino, and came across several others en route. It's becoming increasingly common.

Whilst most people walk the Primitivo in 12 to 14 days that doesn't mean that you have to. There's an excellent thread on the forum from @Thomas1, he walked much shorter days than most, and therefore took somewhat longer. You could adopt his stages or simply use them as a guide for the first few days to ease you into things. (One mistake many first timers make is pushing too Fast , too Soon).

An American couple that I met along the way were choosing more up market accommodation whenever available. When it wasn't available they stayed in private rooms, sometimes in the Albergues, sometimes not. As mentioned above Gronze is an excellent online source of information on accommodation and other infrastructure.

Whilst I'm against over- planning and booking everything in advance, a moderate amount of preparation will make for a much more enjoyable experience

@Dawsie & @CTLawGal have made some excellent suggestions above. Both mention training, it will certainly make whichever camino you choose much more enjoyable. You may not have elevation where you are but if you live in or near a city you likely have buildings with stairs. Use them for training. And as suggested whenever possible head away for a weekend and do a couple of days back to back.

The great thing is that you have plenty of time, before you even decide on which Camino you could start your prep by sorting your shoe sock combination and getting an appropriate pack. And of course starting to walk regularly (3 to 5 times a week, just going out for a stroll together at first, not a full on hike!)

I know it sounds like I'm pushing the Primitivo, I probably am because I feel that it's more likely to offer you the beautiful scenery and peaceful moments that you desire. But any Camino has its beautiful moments, and the Frances certainly has better infrastructure.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Having walked a large variety of Caminos, I just want to add that I loved the Camino Frances and felt the scenery was beautiful and often changed in its 800km length. I did not miss the mountain views of the Primitivo, nor the lovely ocean views of the Norte, although both of those are also wonderful caminos, as well.
I do not have an opinion on which route is perfect for you because I think you can not go wrong with whatever choice you make; each one has its own beauty and unique vibe.

 

[kdvanderpool]

Welcome to the forum.
This was not my experience of the Primitivo (July '23). The camino was relatively busy when I walked but I did not hear of anyone forced to sleep outside, nor have I read any reports of this over the last couple of years here on the forum. I know of a couple of people that chose to sleep out, and have seen other reports of the same since, but that's a completely different story.

I walked my first day with somebody that had chosen the Primitivo as her first Camino, and came across several others en route. It's becoming increasingly common.

Whilst most people walk the Primitivo in 12 to 14 days that doesn't mean that you have to. There's an excellent thread on the forum from @Thomas1, he walked much shorter days than most, and therefore took somewhat longer. You could adopt his stages or simply use them as a guide for the first few days to ease you into things. (One mistake many first timers make is pushing too Fast , too Soon).

An American couple that I met along the way were choosing more up market accommodation whenever available. When it wasn't available they stayed in private rooms, sometimes in the Albergues, sometimes not. As mentioned above Gronze is an excellent online source of information on accommodation and other infrastructure.

Whilst I'm against over- planning and booking everything in advance, a moderate amount of preparation will make for a much more enjoyable experience

@Dawsie & @CTLawGal have made some excellent suggestions above. Both mention training, it will certainly make whichever camino you choose much more enjoyable. You may not have elevation where you are but if you live in or near a city you likely have buildings with stairs. Use them for training. And as suggested whenever possible head away for a weekend and do a couple of days back to back.

The great thing is that you have plenty of time, before you even decide on which Camino you could start your prep by sorting your shoe sock combination and getting an appropriate pack. And of course starting to walk regularly (3 to 5 times a week, just going out for a stroll together at first, not a full on hike!)

I know it sounds like I'm pushing the Primitivo, I probably am because I feel that it's more likely to offer you the beautiful scenery and peaceful moments that you desire. But any Camino has its beautiful moments, and the Frances certainly has better infrastructure.

Thanks so much Peter! You've been a great help.

 

[kdvanderpool]

Looking at your list of concerns, the only option is CF. You will not get as many beautiful views as del Norte, but your other desires can be met. 13 years of "longing" and only now you start the research? Get Brierley Guide for CF and read it thoroughly. Then check out Walking With Effren on YouTube, plus many others.

Thank you! Yes, we have wanted to for 13 years but our professional lives in the U.S. have never allowed for enough time (or money) to go. We've never had more than about 10 days off from work at a time. We are both graduating from grad school and will be between jobs so we are taking advantage of it!

 

[kdvanderpool]

Based on this, I can understand why you are considering the Primitivo. For my first Camino in 2023 I thought I was going to do the Frances, but was very tempted by the Norte/Primitivo, which seemed more scenic and quieter, but concerned whether that route might be too ambitious given the elevation gain. A friend familiar with my training walks convinced me I could do it and I'm glad I did. I also don't do well in humidity, but didn't find it too warm or humid in May.

That being said, if you are unable to train on elevation, I would agree that the Frances is probably a better route for you. I don't know if your 10 mile Copenhagen walk was a single event or if it followed on the heels of other long walks. While I routinely walk 10-12 miles relatively easily, on the Camino it's being able to walk that and more (12-18) every day that is really hard, especially with elevation gain.

I thought Dawsie made a lot of good suggestions for training. I would add that for me, in the last 2 months before I left for Spain, I tried to walk two 12-milers back-to-back, then I would drop it back down to a 4- or 6-miler the following days to allow some time for my body to recover, and then back to 6- or 8-milers. I also tried to get in at least 1000 feet of elevation gain on those longer walks. The days on the Camino were hard, but I felt prepared for the hills and distance . As the Primitivo converged with the Frances, I noticed that most of the pilgrims had a difficult time even on the smallest hills, dramatically slowing down, while the pilgrims I recognized from the Primitivo seemed to float up by comparison. (It was also a LOT less quiet once on the Frances). So I would guess that there might be a fair number of days that would be challenging if you can't train with some elevation gain.

If you are still considering the Primitivo and have the time, I would recommend maybe starting in Santander on the Norte, primarily so you have a week to get used to walking every day, and also to enjoy some amazing coastal views before you head inland. However, if the elevation gain seems daunting, I agree the Frances is your best bet. Either way, I'm sure you'll love whichever route you choose!

Thank you! Despite our desire for the "typical" Camino experience, we have decided the Primitivo is calling us and I was wondering about starting somewhere on the Norte so this is great! We have ZERO elevation in our area but have done elevated hikes and will train with stairs. I think we will be fine and we have time to take it slowly if we need to. Thanks for all the advice!

 

[CTLawGal]

I loved it, I hope you will too! Please consider using trekking poles, especially for the Primitivo downhills with a pack, they can really help absorb some of the pressure on your knees. If you haven't used them before, there are some good videos out there (and there've been many forum discussions of them), use your TX flat country training to get used to them. I noticed a number of pilgrims improvise with tree limbs (not ideal!) after they realized they really needed something but unable to find store to buy once on the route. Buen Camino! And keep us posted!

 

[kdvanderpool]

Welcome to our little area of Camino dreaming.
Given your experience and timescale, I would strongly recommend reading other threads on this forum about Winter Training. See if you can arrange a few weekends away this Fall and again in early Spring. Walk for a couple of long days staying overnight so that you get the chance to:
a) spend time together, and get used to the speed that you each like walking
b) learn how to push yourselves a bit where necessary
c) try your gear, and get used to your favourite footwear
d) try your gear, ideally in rainy weather to understand how to keep things dry
e) try your gear, and get used to carrying your rucksack, perhaps adding extra unnecessary items to get closer to your expected load.
f) have fun, meet people, explore and meet personal challenges

It may be a "once in a lifetime" trip, but don't over plan things - we say "The Camino Provides".
Once you know that you can get up and walk from dawn and can walk all day and enjoy it, then you will have an idea of how far you will be able to get each day on your Camino (and how much you want to carry on your backs - or if you want to use any of the "bag forwarding" services).
I recommend buying a couple of guides (especially via Ivar, so that you will get your "passports" too) read these in the dark nights of winter to get the feel of how these work, but only book your first couple of nights in advance, booking subsequent ones while on the Camino and you have an idea where you are likely to end up on the next evening.

If this is a "special trip", then I would also recommend finding somewhere about halfway that you both like the look of and arrange a "zero day" where you get the chance to stop, explore and rest up.

I am personally very pleased that even though you describe yourselves as "high maintenance" for sleeping arrangements, you have realised the advantages of the community of an albergue will offset a less comfortable sleep - you never know, you might like it.

Your experience in Copenhagen should have exposed you to European phone networks - important since WhatsApp is now the most common method of booking accommodation.

Enjoy planning your wonderful adventure.

You are a hero. Thank you so much for all the tips. We are so excited we wish it wasn't so far away (but we definitely will take advantage of the time to train)!

 

[kdvanderpool]

I loved it, I hope you will too! Please consider using trekking poles, especially for the Primitivo downhills with a pack, they can really help absorb some of the pressure on your knees. If you haven't used them before, there are some good videos out there (and there've been many forum discussions of them), use your TX flat country training to get used to them. I noticed a number of pilgrims improvise with tree limbs (not ideal!) after they realized they really needed something but unable to find store to buy once on the route. Buen Camino! And keep us posted!

Gracias! We will be using trek poles for sure. I hiked through Morocco years ago and poles made a HUGE difference. Any idea if there's any poles that can be carried on for flights? We try to always carry on.

 

[CTLawGal]

Gracias! We will be using trek poles for sure. I hiked through Morocco years ago and poles made a HUGE difference. Any idea if there's any poles that can be carried on for flights? We try to always carry on.

There are tons of posts on this topic. My take away: It seems some have success on transatlantic flights to Europe, but many have them confiscated on connecting flights or when leaving Spain. Many recommend buying once you arrive. Also seems like no problem in checked bags. I had mine in a checked bag, no problem. I’m a little sentimentally attached to mine and would be sad to lose them all they might be due for replacement after many good years of use.

 

[trecile]

Any idea if there's any poles that can be carried on for flights? We try to always carry on.

The answer to that is "it depends."

Here's a good place to start:

Am I allowed to carry hiking poles / walking sticks into the airplane cabin with me?​

 

[RRat]

Hi Everyone,

Grateful for this community as my wife and I are planning our first Camino after 13 years of longing to go! We will be walking in mid-May to mid-June and I have a few questions:

1. What is the humidity like? Specifically on the Frances or the Primitivo. Where we live it is very hot but very dry. Humidity affects me much more than heat.
2. Which route do you recommend for first-timers (and possibly only timers for the foreseeable future). We are considering the Primitivo or the Frances but are open to ALL options.

When choosing a route, here are our wants and concerns:

• WE can only spare between 2-4 weeks so none of the super long routes.
• We love beautiful views, solitude, and moments of "sacred silence"
• We are not experienced hikers by any means but we are relatively fit and did a 10mile hike in Copenhagen this year that felt very easy (though my calves hurt the next two days). We are also careful and athletic.
• We like challenges but we also like to enjoy ourselves and don't do well with uncomfortable sleeping arrangements. The one area that we can be a little high maintenance is where we stay when we travel. We will be doing some public albergues because that is the experience, but we will want to do some nicer accommodations.
• I have heard the Primitivo does not always have reliable accommodations and you may have to figure it out or sleep outside after a long day of difficult hiking. We can handle it but this would greatly sour our trip. Just being honest about ourselves when we travel. The less decision-making and trouble-shooting the better.

I think that's it for me! Thank you all so much for your help!

If you seek "beautiful views, solitude, and moments of sacred silence" any of the established routes might not be for you. You will be rarely alone. If you are high maintenance you will often have to sacrifice that approach. You will be walking on a path that gets you from point A to B and not necessarily the most picturesque.