Help! The walking pole makes me feel like the walking dead!

[Anamiri]

As a fellow kiwi and a convert to 2 poles, I can say they honestly changed my Camino life.
Better for my knees, my back, and I get less tired. And my fingers dont swell up like sausages. I arrive now with the energy to look around and explore. My arms get nice and toned, and I use my sticks as tools along the way, they make washing lines, curtain rails etc
For years I couldn't see the point either, but now I am a complete convert. I wouldn't walk a Camino without them now.
They feel so natural now, I cant understand why it took me so long.

However I see a lot of people using poles incorrectly.
Last weekend I walked the Oxfam Trailwalk in Whakatane. Its a pretty grueling 100km all terrain walk. People fit broadly into two groups. Those who are old enough to know they need to train, and those who say "its only a walk, how hard can it be".
The latter are the people you see broken at various points during the trail. They are also the people who think that buying sticks will compensate for them not training (I am a little harsh here but I have the benefit of overhearing many teams' conversations). This year in particular there were a lot of young people with poles they should just have left at home, for all the good they were doing. Poles that weren't height adjusted. People who carried them just off the ground, dragged behind, stabbed the ground in front, or used them like oars.

 

[David]

I SO don't like poles - there, I've said it. Sure, as a biped having one pole on descents gives stability - tripod beats bipod every time! - and I always do have one with me for those times.

No, it is the clicikity clickity clickity of pilgrims using two poles on completely normal level surfaces .. if you look at them they are leaning forward like old people going shopping .. and they give no benefit whatsoever (to the healthy).

You think they alleviate weight?? Nope! Try this at home - stand on your bathroom scale and press your poles down as hard as you possible can either side - any difference on the scale reading? Nope, none at all -

- don't get me wrong, they are great for stability on tricky terrain, and one pole is great for pointing things in the distance out to other people (though a pipe or pair of glasses is also good for that).

If poles were such a good thing you would see soldiers using them on route marches, weighed down as they are by some 60 + pounds of kit - do you see that? nope! of course not - it is merely Emperor's new clothes, brilliant marketing.

There my opinion

 

[dougfitz]

You think they alleviate weight?? Nope! Try this at home - stand on your bathroom scale and press your poles down as hard as you possible can either side - any difference on the scale reading? Nope, none at all -

@David this made me smile. Your observation about a test conducted this way is perfectly correct, but your conclusion is completely wrong. The reason that there will be no difference in doing a test as you have described is that the downward force exerted by the poles will be exactly matched by a reduction in the downward force exerted through your feet. Any redistribution of the forces by using poles cannot be measured as you have suggested. You are correct - you won't weigh any less using poles.

So what is happening and how might one test that? Pushing down on the poles will exert a force that is going to be transmitted through your wrists and arms to your upper body. You will effectively be lifting yourself up (just a little) by your shoulders. This will reduce the downward forces on all the joints below the shoulders. The best way of assessing how much this reduction is would be to stand on the scales, and places the poles on the floor beside the scales, and observe the difference as you increase the force on the poles. Alternatively, put the poles on the scales. Either way, you are now measuring the reduction in the forces being transmitted through your hips and knees.

Doug

ps. I rather suspect that the reasons poles are not regularly used by soldiers is that in their fighting role, they need both hands to be free to use a weapon. Some specialist troops, might have poles, but they will need to stow them us use their own weapon or crew a larger squad weapon.

 

[David]

Thanks Doug, though I did write to 'press the poles down as hard as you can either side' - my assumption being that all would assume I meant either side of the scales, not on the scales!! hahaha

as for soldiers - route marching isn't battle ready. They don't use them as they believe that they are a waste of time - no specialist troops use poles unless they are standing on skis.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Remember that I said I was a one pole guy for my mountain hikes and did not use them on the level (or the CF). It's a personal preference. But regarding @Old Kiwi's post mentioning the energy study my thoughts were to neither accept or regret the energy study but to think that the energy expended is being done by more muscle groups. My thinking is that on the downhills especially this is fine as the tradeoff is that you are moving some forces from the knees to the arms. At the end of day it is easier to restore your energy levels than your knees. I haven't reached any conclusions about the uphill energy expenditure. As for the level, the extra energy usage might be going into speed. That could be worth it if it gets you a lower bunk. Anyway, the extra energy expended with pole usage might be worth it for it's benefits. Personal preference.

 

[David]

Here is a real scientific "real world" analysis, properly done in different conditions - though not weatring packs - the results?
"this was also the first study which attempted to assess the effect of trekking poles on performance outside of a laboratory. Based on our limited results, it seems as though trekking poles have little to no impact on outdoor, horizontal, unloaded walking efficiency."

Read it here - https://mtntactical.com/research/trekking-poles-make-efficient/

 

[Antonius Vaessen]

On my first camino in 2015 I used Leki Poles. I felt I needed them because after breaking a hip at iceskating I walked a little bit in " penguinstyle". These poles did not work so well with me, it did not feel natural. At the internet I found some information about Pacer Poles. The explanation was very convincing, I was very surprised that no on else came up before with the idea of these handshaped handles. I bought them and for me they made a big difference, compared to the Lekis I had. Walking with them comes very natural, using them is really "idiot proof". A disadvantage is that they only can be bought via internet, they are produced in the UK. I believe that their return policy is good, but I am not sure because I liked from the beginning.

 

[Charles Johnson]

This may be late to the thread, but to me, sore arms is actually a good sign, it means your arms are helping support your weight. I've used poles on both Caminos. I use them differently for uphill (supporting my weight) and for downhill (for balance. ) On the flat stretches, I collapse them down and strap them to my mochilla. Hope this helps Buen camino!

 

[englishstu]

How much weight are you likely to carry, if not much there is less use for them. I have not been on the Camino but have done several thousand miles in the US, EU and GB and now have Pacerpoles after many miles with hiking poles.
Poles do have other uses pushing back nettles and scrub; loss count how many times they have stopped a stumble turning into a fall.On the Appalachian Trail I started with no sticks, then cut a staff for a while then after a bit of knee ache went to two poles, need them for my shelter.
Millions of poles have been sold,millions cannot all be wrong or conned with the hype. I will try and find again a major study done on them. However it will always be HYOH- hike your own hike.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Here is a real scientific "real world" analysis, properly done in different conditions - though not weatring packs - the results?
"this was also the first study which attempted to assess the effect of trekking poles on performance outside of a laboratory. Based on our limited results, it seems as though trekking poles have little to no impact on outdoor, horizontal, unloaded walking efficiency."

Read it here - https://mtntactical.com/research/trekking-poles-make-efficient/

Thanks @David. Here's the followup (but on a 1 km trail with an average 47% slope with "athletes [loaded] with approximately 40% of their body weight".):

AT STEEP GRADES USING TREKKING POLES IS 20% EASIER AND 10% MORE EFFICIENT
https://mtntactical.com/research/steep-grades-hiking-trekking-poles-20-easier-10-efficient/

 

[trecile]

noticed it worked better when I really didn't try to "use" them. Just let them land naturally without using them to pull me.

You should be using the poles more to push you than pull you.

You can actually help propel yourself uphill and take a lot of effort off your quads by using a "nordic" technique and pushing off strongly.

I really discovered this last year on the Norte to change my technique on the uphill so that my poles were giving me a good push uphill.

I can see where walking poles might come in handy for people unsteady on their feet either up or down hill. I find it hard to believe they are necessary on the flat.

I find that my poles are almost always more helpful in my hands than as extra weight in my pack. They keep my fingers my from swelling and help to keep my arms toned. No way I'm going to let my legs have all the fun!

BTW, I have Pacer Poles. I've never tried another kind.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

I can see where walking poles might come in handy for people unsteady on their feet either up or down hill. I find it hard to believe they are necessary on the flat. In the past when tramping (trecking for those from the USA) I have taken a branch out of the bush (forest) to help me across a river with a full pack and then put it back in the bush on the other side. On steep tracks in the bush I would rather have my hands free to grasp the odd tree branch or whatever to help me up or down. I am 75 and have been doing this for a long time. A university professor friend who was also a tramper once did a study on walking poles under different conditions and in the end concluded that they could be helpful in some situations, but you spent a lot of time carrying them on flat ground where they were not needed. It is not so bad if you carry them collapsed and attached to your pack but if you continue to use them on the flat you end up expending a huge amount of energy lifting both your arm and your pole at each step whereas a normal (?) walker with their arms by their sides or with just a natural swing does not use any at all. Calculations showed that you could use 40% more energy using poles up or down a slope than without and up to 20% more energy just using them on the flat. This could work out, over a 25 kilometre day, of using the same amount of energy over that distance as a person without poles would use to cover 30 kilometres. No wonder some people are tired when they reach the next albergue. Please do not think I am running down people with any sort of disability which makes it possible for them to participate in walking a Camino but it just seems to me that a lot of people seem to think they are a necessary thing nowdays. Please do not crucify me, it is only my humble opinion.

I can see where walking poles might come in handy for people unsteady on their feet either up or down hill. I find it hard to believe they are necessary on the flat. In the past when tramping (trecking for those from the USA) I have taken a branch out of the bush (forest) to help me across a river with a full pack and then put it back in the bush on the other side. On steep tracks in the bush I would rather have my hands free to grasp the odd tree branch or whatever to help me up or down. I am 75 and have been doing this for a long time. A university professor friend who was also a tramper once did a study on walking poles under different conditions and in the end concluded that they could be helpful in some situations, but you spent a lot of time carrying them on flat ground where they were not needed. It is not so bad if you carry them collapsed and attached to your pack but if you continue to use them on the flat you end up expending a huge amount of energy lifting both your arm and your pole at each step whereas a normal (?) walker with their arms by their sides or with just a natural swing does not use any at all. Calculations showed that you could use 40% more energy using poles up or down a slope than without and up to 20% more energy just using them on the flat. This could work out, over a 25 kilometre day, of using the same amount of energy over that distance as a person without poles would use to cover 30 kilometres. No wonder some people are tired when they reach the next albergue. Please do not think I am running down people with any sort of disability which makes it possible for them to participate in walking a Camino but it just seems to me that a lot of people seem to think they are a necessary thing nowdays. Please do not crucify me, it is only my humble opinion.

Most interesting. Could we see the "calculations" please? And a professor in which field?

Just back from a "tramp" through the local woods (uphill, downhill and on the flat using PacerPoles all through the walk) and thinking about recent posts regarding use of poles I came to the conclusion that:

I no longer lean to the left
I no longer stoop so my posture in general has improved (6'1" Englishman - we tend to stoop when our brethren are shorter than ourselves and only look up to Dutchmen)
I see more of my surroundings as I'm no longer looking at the ground in front of my toes all the time
My breathing is easier
Ascents are less taxing
At the end of a walk I feel more refreshed
I get less tingling in my hands* as they're elevated all the time (* side effect of post-stroke medication)

It took a little time to stop myself from charging along on the flat at full speed but, now that's under control, I feel quite comfortable with them.

 

[Anna Cameron]

I think that,for some,they are a bit of a fad. Years ago on the Le Puy route I met a lecturer in biomechanical engineering and he bluntly asked someone why he had them..the reply was because others were using them even tough he thought they were doing no good. I've lost count how many times I've seen these poles trailed along the ground,slung across the shoulders or gently tapping on asphalt..the benefit?..nil. Another time someone was walking across a small slipway with ankle deep water and as he slipped he came down and missed spearing himself in the leg with the point. I also find it odd that you need to "learn" how to use them properly. To me they seem like a con from the skiing pole manufacturers..I can just hear them.."look fellas how can we flog these things out of skiing season?...I know lets say they take 40% pressure off your knees,hang on that's too much..make it 25%"

I started walking with poles when I joined a Nordic Walking group, recommended by my physio. Nordic walking is an established and beneficial activity/exercise in Northern Europe and much-promoted by physiotherapists and exercise physicians. It was a good decision for me, to support therapy I need to manage chronic health problems. And, happily, all the training helped enormously on my first Camino last year. Not a con, when poles are used appropriately.

 

[englishstu]

Heather at Pacerpoles as good info on this subject.
Pole use especially going uphill or downhill the quadruped approach certainly helps me. Used correctly you can observe yourself how the poles are assisting by using the upper body muscles to lift the torso and backpack, aiding the quadraceps. Clearly there must be an extra energy depletion by using these extra muscles. It is less on the flat but the lifting by the quads and pole is still experienced.
Is there a religion parallel here;-) for the believer there is no need for explanation, for the doubter there is never enough.

 

[Former member 49149]

Most interesting. Could we see the "calculations" please? And a professor in which field?

Just back from a "tramp" through the local woods (uphill, downhill and on the flat using PacerPoles all through the walk) and thinking about recent posts regarding use of poles I came to the conclusion that:

I no longer lean to the left
I no longer stoop so my posture in general has improved (6'1" Englishman - we tend to stoop when our brethren are shorter than ourselves and only look up to Dutchmen)
I see more of my surroundings as I'm no longer looking at the ground in front of my toes all the time
My breathing is easier
Ascents are less taxing
At the end of a walk I feel more refreshed
I get less tingling in my hands* as they're elevated all the time (* side effect of post-stroke medication)

It took a little time to stop myself from charging along on the flat at full speed but, now that's under control, I feel quite comfortable with them.

You have given me such a good laugh, Jeff. I will combine this with another post saying that sore arms is a good sign. My whole body is in tatters after only a 6km walk with nordic poles, and followed by half an hour in the gym, and 20 lengths of the pool. Ok, so pacer poles? Do I need to investigate? Are they better than my regular, basic Leki? Go on, persuade me!

 

[David]

Thanks @David. Here's the followup (but on a 1 km trail with an average 47% slope with "athletes [loaded] with approximately 40% of their body weight".):

AT STEEP GRADES USING TREKKING POLES IS 20% EASIER AND 10% MORE EFFICIENT
https://mtntactical.com/research/steep-grades-hiking-trekking-poles-20-easier-10-efficient/

Brilliant! I would have posted that had I seen it!! - I do say they are great for ascents and descents, it is the tapping along the level with no knowledge of how to use them, just flapping and tapping, that I can't stand

 

[Jeff Crawley]

You have given me such a good laugh, Jeff. I will combine this with another post saying that sore arms is a good sign. My whole body is in tatters after only a 6km walk with nordic poles, and followed by half an hour in the gym, and 20 lengths of the pool. Ok, so pacer poles? Do I need to investigate? Are they better than my regular, basic Leki? Go on, persuade me!

I could never be persuaded to use two poles - they always seemed to push me to go faster than I liked.

A single pole was enough for me.

The first walk with the PPs was a revelation. Once I'd got over the co-ordination problems ("You look like a baby giraffe trying to find balance") which probably explains my lack of waltzing skills too

You do not grip a PP like a conventional pole, in fact you don't grip them at all. There are no straps either. The PP handle is canted forwards, is molded to fit the hand and has a "shelf" for the butt of your palm to rest upon - it was this that made me realise I lean to the left as there was more pressure on my left hand than my right.

The technique with PPs is to keep the spine straight, the head aloft and the shoulders back. You don't slump or lean forward. You don't reach too far forward with the PP either.

On the downside the shaped handle is less compact and I'd worry about having to ship them as check in lugguage if I did another Camino (although @trecile seems to manage well enough)

Price wise PPs are in the upper range (£79 for a pair of the standard model) and only available from the makers over the internet. If you can find somebody locally who has some to try them out do so.

My Leki pole now gathers dust in the umbrella stand but won't be thrown away as it has a Camino Stick Skin on it.

 

[dougfitz]

Thanks Doug, though I did write to 'press the poles down as hard as you can either side' - my assumption being that all would assume I meant either side of the scales, not on the scales!! hahaha

as for soldiers - route marching isn't battle ready. They don't use them as they believe that they are a waste of time - no specialist troops use poles unless they are standing on skis.

@David, then I would suggest that individuals would observe a substantial decrease in their measured 'weight', rather than the result you suggest of observing no change. I have done similar measurements in the past, and did so again just for the fun of it. I was able to reduce my measured weight by over 20 kg using two poles simultaneously. I don't suggest that this level of reduction could be maintained for long periods, but clearly the suggestion you made earlier is just not sustainable.

As for your assessment of why poles are not being used in various armies, let me note that I think the issue is far more complex than you suggest. How you justify your claim to know what soldiers believe, other than imbibing with a few squaddies at your local, is beyond me.

Here is a real scientific "real world" analysis, properly done in different conditions - though not weatring packs - the results?
"this was also the first study which attempted to assess the effect of trekking poles on performance outside of a laboratory. Based on our limited results, it seems as though trekking poles have little to no impact on outdoor, horizontal, unloaded walking efficiency."

Read it here - https://mtntactical.com/research/trekking-poles-make-efficient/

Thanks @David. Here's the followup (but on a 1 km trail with an average 47% slope with "athletes [loaded] with approximately 40% of their body weight".):

AT STEEP GRADES USING TREKKING POLES IS 20% EASIER AND 10% MORE EFFICIENT
https://mtntactical.com/research/steep-grades-hiking-trekking-poles-20-easier-10-efficient/

I think it is great that MTI, which appears to be a one man coaching organisation that doesn't employ a single scientist, has done some very preliminary work on this. It would have more credibility if it were conducted by appropriately qualified researchers, peer reviewed and with sample sizes where statistical significance would be not be the methodological issue it clearly was with sample sizes of four and three (in the later article). These are nice on-line articles, but hardly the stuff of real scientific research. I read both articles, and must admit that I was dismayed that you thought that this was properly conducted scientific analysis.

 

[trecile]

There are no straps either.

They do have a strap of sorts, made of shock cord. I just loop it loosely on my wrists, then if I stop to take a picture or something the poles kind of hang from my wrists so that I don't drop them

 

[Jeff Crawley]

They do have a strap of sorts, made of shock cord. I just loop it loosely on my wrists, then if I stop to take a picture or something the poles kind of hang from my wrists so that I don't drop them

Mine just have bits of orange string

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

So Doug, does that mean that you don't think that 80 kg athletes carrying 32 kg packs up slopes like the Portomarin staircase will benefit from trekking poles?

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Thanks Doug, though I did write to 'press the poles down as hard as you can either side' - my assumption being that all would assume I meant either side of the scales, not on the scales!! hahaha

as for soldiers - route marching isn't battle ready. They don't use them as they believe that they are a waste of time - no specialist troops use poles unless they are standing on skis.

You've not come across the Burmese Army Trekking Stick then? Designed by the wonderously named Sir Jeffrey Hillpig-Smyth (I'm not kidding here) for British Special Forces in Burma during WW2.



It unscrews in the centre for ease of transportation - Sir Jeffrey obviously foresaw the coming of Ryanair and the need for carry-on equipment (no sharp points!)

 

[David]

Before any more flack comes in for having a different opinion can I say again that I have mentioned before that on rough terrain I think a pole for stability is a good idea? Burmese army pole for instance - tripod better than bipod (ask a Kangaroo) every time - and I use mine for that.
My point was the leaning forward clackity clackity on level surfaces where it is apparent that the poles are not being used as 'devices' just swung and therefore superfluous.

So - I don't like pole use - my opinion.

@doug - you must have seriously strong arms to lower your weight by 20kgs on a bathroom scales - and, I know you were being flippant, but were you able to do that you know that you would not be able to do similar walking. - oh, and I don't go to pubs and therefore don't drink with soldiers.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Kiwi, the only hikers who really *need* poles or a stick or a staff are those who need a stick of some kind in daily life in the first place.

But generally though, if it's not for a support need, then using them in that way as a hiker means you're using them wrong.

You can use either poles or a staff as an aid towards propulsion itself, placing them at an angle and pushing backwards as you step forwards.

But on the flat, if you're not speed walking, you only put them down very lightly, and use them more for balance and punctual support needs than anything else -- if you're constantly pressing down on them but don't need the support, then that's exactly how to misuse them.

The debate is anyway irrelevant to those of us with bad knees and so on. We just need them, pure & simple.

Calculations showed that you could use 40% more energy using poles up or down a slope than without and up to 20% more energy just using them on the flat.

The only study that I'm aware of that measured these things was methodologically flawed, mostly by virtue of making measurements from test subjects that were inexpert in using them, who certainly didn't need them, and in lab conditions having little to do with those encountered out in the wild.

Still, using them wrong would indeed lead to such results.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Before any more flack comes in for having a different opinion can I say again that I have mentioned before that on rough terrain I think a pole for stability is a good idea? Burmese army pole for instance - tripod better than bipod (ask a Kangaroo) every time - and I use mine for that.
My point was the leaning forward clackity clackity on level surfaces where it is apparent that the poles are not being used as 'devices' just swung and therefore superfluous.

So - I don't like pole use - my opinion.

@doug - you must have seriously strong arms to lower your weight by 20kgs on a bathroom scales - and, I know you were being flippant, but were you able to do that you know that you would not be able to do similar walking. - oh, and I don't go to pubs and therefore don't drink with soldiers.

TBH I don't know that Sir Jeffrey was even a real person - I saw these on sale oh, about 20 years ago, in the UK and then a few months ago spotted one in a friend's hall stand.
He'd brought it back from Thailand where he'd bought it for about £5 in a curio shop in a Thai market. It's a one of a kind and is Sir Jeffrey's actual stick from 1941! There's even a little brass escutcheon on it bearing his name: "Sir Jefferey Hillpig-Smyth" (sic)
Oddly, when he went back to the market a few days later, there was another one, similarly badged. Presumably that was Sir Jeffrey's spare, in case he lost the original. Well you would, wouldn't you?


(Oh, and it's "flak" BTW )

 

[dougfitz]

So Doug, does that mean that you don't think that 80 kg athletes carrying 32 kg packs up slopes like the Portomarin staircase will benefit from trekking poles?

I think anyone who uses poles properly will get benefit - up, down and on the flat. Although anyone carrying 40% of their body mass on the camino might need other assistance!

My point was the leaning forward clackity clackity on level surfaces where it is apparent that the poles are not being used as 'devices' just swung and therefore superfluous.

I completely agree with you. This always seems to be an utter waste of time as well as being extremely annoying to everyone else.

@doug - you must have seriously strong arms to lower your weight by 20kgs on a bathroom scales - and, I know you were being flippant, but were you able to do that you know that you would not be able to do similar walking. - oh, and I don't go to pubs and therefore don't drink with soldiers.

Over several measures, the best I got was a 26 kg reduction. But given this was a static test, and I was trying to see how much difference I could get, I don't think it in any way represents what might be achieved when walking.

 

[David]

Thinking on my static bathroom scales test - I don't think it even slightly resembles what could be a benefit when actually walking with poles used properly - one foot and one pole (press down firmly) and then the alternate ... my error.

 

[Trish K]

I already had these for trail running so took them with me on the CF and found they were perfect. They are extremely lightweight and fold up or unfold in a few seconds. I had them attached to the outside of my rucksack where I could reach for them without having to take my pack off, so it was really easy to just have them on the uphills and downhills and tuck them back away on the flats. They only weigh 115g.

Mountain King Trail Blaze Lightweight Poles Pair

Weighing from as little as 115g and packing down to around 34cm in length these Mountain King Trail Blaze Walking Poles are incredibly lightweight and compact

www.outdoorgear.co.uk

 

[Bruce and Margaret]

Backgroud: Up to this day, two caminos and many other travelling around the world without walking poles.
Simply put, I hate them: feel uncoordinated, tired, dislike the noise even with rubber tips - hate them so much that i'm concious of being biased against them.

Situation: we are going on the Camino Lebaniego in April. Lots of mountains. I gave in and got a pair of poles to help me on the uphills. I occasionally borrowed my partner's pole when going uphil in previous trails, and there are benefits in using them, so well, decided to try.
I am training with them for two months now. I'm watching videos on how to position. I had them fitted at the store. I asked help from my cousin who is a physiotherapist.

And I still feel extremely tired, with sore arms and very irritated by the end of any walk with those sticks of doom. When people ask me "but you are getting extra support, right?" Sincerely, I don't know. I totally don't feel it, even though they are apparently well fitted. Only feel it when going uphill.

Question: Should I simply ditch them and go as I always did, pole free? Or are the Picos de Europa really challenging and I would benefit from the uphill support?

Backgroud: Up to this day, two caminos and many other travelling around the world without walking poles.
Simply put, I hate them: feel uncoordinated, tired, dislike the noise even with rubber tips - hate them so much that i'm concious of being biased against them.

Situation: we are going on the Camino Lebaniego in April. Lots of mountains. I gave in and got a pair of poles to help me on the uphills. I occasionally borrowed my partner's pole when going uphil in previous trails, and there are benefits in using them, so well, decided to try.
I am training with them for two months now. I'm watching videos on how to position. I had them fitted at the store. I asked help from my cousin who is a physiotherapist.

And I still feel extremely tired, with sore arms and very irritated by the end of any walk with those sticks of doom. When people ask me "but you are getting extra support, right?" Sincerely, I don't know. I totally don't feel it, even though they are apparently well fitted. Only feel it when going uphill.

Question: Should I simply ditch them and go as I always did, pole free? Or are the Picos de Europa really challenging and I would benefit from the uphill support?

Hi. May I suggest that you carry them with you and use them as required. I find mine invaluable and hardly ever walk without them. Regards Bruce.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I can see where walking poles might come in handy for people unsteady on their feet either up or down hill. I find it hard to believe they are necessary on the flat. In the past when tramping (trecking for those from the USA) I have taken a branch out of the bush (forest) to help me across a river with a full pack and then put it back in the bush on the other side. On steep tracks in the bush I would rather have my hands free to grasp the odd tree branch or whatever to help me up or down. I am 75 and have been doing this for a long time. A university professor friend who was also a tramper once did a study on walking poles under different conditions and in the end concluded that they could be helpful in some situations, but you spent a lot of time carrying them on flat ground where they were not needed. It is not so bad if you carry them collapsed and attached to your pack but if you continue to use them on the flat you end up expending a huge amount of energy lifting both your arm and your pole at each step whereas a normal (?) walker with their arms by their sides or with just a natural swing does not use any at all. Calculations showed that you could use 40% more energy using poles up or down a slope than without and up to 20% more energy just using them on the flat. This could work out, over a 25 kilometre day, of using the same amount of energy over that distance as a person without poles would use to cover 30 kilometres. No wonder some people are tired when they reach the next albergue. Please do not think I am running down people with any sort of disability which makes it possible for them to participate in walking a Camino but it just seems to me that a lot of people seem to think they are a necessary thing nowdays. Please do not crucify me, it is only my humble opinion.

I'd like to see the cite for research.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Threads like this can breakaway from being helpful to dogmatic. Usually it happens when personal preference and taste get confused with something being either 'Right' or 'Wrong'. Trekking pole threads are at risk for this.

It does not matter if I feel - subjectively - that trekking poles are of benefit. It does not matter that many of us hate the metallic clickity-clack of unshod carbide tips on hard surfaces. It does not matter if one hates using them, or adores using them. It does not matter that it makes one's skin crawl at the mere sight of trekking poles in motion.

It just does not matter.

What does matter is exactly what most of this thread's posts have done: provide points of input which are directed toward one goal: helping someone fill in the blanks with the information needed to consider their course of action.

This is one reason that I love this forum. ❤

 

[englishstu]

Any staff/portable prop will be useful to lean on, off-load weight and aid balance.
Important to realise that walking gait can be looked as a Science concerning Loads and Levers; trunk/backpack as the Load and limbs as Levers; these levers will be lifting-and-shifting the load around. It is either done by the legs alone or with some help by good use and positioning of poles.
The cross country skiers would not get far without poles and the mountaineers with their mountaineering step using the ice axe to lift up each step their torso and large packs.
With acknowledgement to Heather at PacerPoles who sometime ago pointed it out to me the more technical aspects of pole use.

 

[DebraS.]

You should be using the poles more to push you than pull you.

Maybe we each have our methods that work for us? I am happy with how my method works for me and do not plan to change it.

 

[trecile]

Maybe we each have our methods that work for us? I am happy with how my method works for me and do not plan to change it.

Ha Ha, you sound like me. I was doing the pull thing, and it was working for me just fine. Then someone told me that I should be using the poles to push me up the hills. My reaction was the same as yours - this is the way that I do it, and it works for me. But then I tried, it. It was a bit awkward at first, but then I found on steep uphills, that using the poles to push worked better than using them to pull.

 

[Lynda t]

Backgroud: Up to this day, two caminos and many other travelling around the world without walking poles.
Simply put, I hate them: feel uncoordinated, tired, dislike the noise even with rubber tips - hate them so much that i'm concious of being biased against them.

Situation: we are going on the Camino Lebaniego in April. Lots of mountains. I gave in and got a pair of poles to help me on the uphills. I occasionally borrowed my partner's pole when going uphil in previous trails, and there are benefits in using them, so well, decided to try.
I am training with them for two months now. I'm watching videos on how to position. I had them fitted at the store. I asked help from my cousin who is a physiotherapist.

And I still feel extremely tired, with sore arms and very irritated by the end of any walk with those sticks of doom. When people ask me "but you are getting extra support, right?" Sincerely, I don't know. I totally don't feel it, even though they are apparently well fitted. Only feel it when going uphill.

Question: Should I simply ditch them and go as I always did, pole free? Or are the Picos de Europa really challenging and I would benefit from the uphill support?

I found they really helped on the downhill bits. But I’m older and need all the help I can get. Yes they are a pain and get in the way sometimes, I have to put up with that bit.

 

[VNwalking]

Dave's right. When it comes to opinions, that's all they are. Everyone's neither right nor wrong. And amongst all our opinions, hopefully you've gotten some helpful input, @Anamya .
And that if you are using the poles, that they're feeling less awkward.

get in the way sometimes

Speaking of awkwardness, something no-one seems to ever mention...or maybe it's just me?
It's possible to trip over one's own poles.
For example when fiddling with something in one's front pack with the poles danging from the wrists, or when walking in a fierce crosswind. I had the latter happen outside of Atapuerca, and as much as I like my poles - and as I said above, I do, very much - in that moment they were terrible. It was touch and go but somehow (fortunately) I stayed upright.

So for those of us who do like poles, it pays to take care. The more we get used to (and attached) to walking with poles, the more blase we can be about their downsides. Now I know: if the wind is blowing that hard from one side, the poles should go in the pack...
And...it hasn't happened yet, cross fingers...but if I ever fall as a result of fiddling with my camera or map while dangling the pole from my wrists (which I admittedly do from time to time if I am too lazy to stop)...well, it will serve me right. (You too. )

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

It's possible to trip over one's own poles.

Marianne did that once , she has to stay focused when using here poles .

 

[Finisterre]

I already had these for trail running so took them with me on the CF and found they were perfect. They are extremely lightweight and fold up or unfold in a few seconds. I had them attached to the outside of my rucksack where I could reach for them without having to take my pack off, so it was really easy to just have them on the uphills and downhills and tuck them back away on the flats. They only weigh 115g.

Mountain King Trail Blaze Lightweight Poles Pair

Weighing from as little as 115g and packing down to around 34cm in length these Mountain King Trail Blaze Walking Poles are incredibly lightweight and compact

www.outdoorgear.co.uk

I think they are too light. I found the handle too squishy. But would and do use them for the odd fell running expedition. If l was to only have one set l would probably go with the leki Z carbon. Which are only 40+g heavier each and much better designed handles.

 

[Solitaire]

Backgroud: Up to this day, two caminos and many other travelling around the world without walking poles.
Simply put, I hate them: feel uncoordinated, tired, dislike the noise even with rubber tips - hate them so much that i'm concious of being biased against them.

Situation: we are going on the Camino Lebaniego in April. Lots of mountains. I gave in and got a pair of poles to help me on the uphills. I occasionally borrowed my partner's pole when going uphil in previous trails, and there are benefits in using them, so well, decided to try.
I am training with them for two months now. I'm watching videos on how to position. I had them fitted at the store. I asked help from my cousin who is a physiotherapist.

And I still feel extremely tired, with sore arms and very irritated by the end of any walk with those sticks of doom. When people ask me "but you are getting extra support, right?" Sincerely, I don't know. I totally don't feel it, even though they are apparently well fitted. Only feel it when going uphill.

Question: Should I simply ditch them and go as I always did, pole free? Or are the Picos de Europa really challenging and I would benefit from the uphill support?

I didn't use poles on my first camino, Frances, and felt fine but when I did Chemin de Jacques I was glad I had them as the Central Massif has some steep ups and downs. I found them helpful going up, I could feel the relief on my legs as my arms shared some of the effort and going down especially they made me much more sure, faster and again spreading the load took the impact out of my knees. Even on the flat I found just maintaining a swinging motion, with the tips never getting in front of my heels, became a familiar motion and I enjoyed the momentum so I didn't bother sticking them onto my pack. It is now second nature for me but I do spend a bit of time every time I start, to fiddle until the height and the wrist strap feels right.
I hope you find the right balance for you

 

[Gabe_Way]

If poles were such a good thing you would see soldiers using them on route marches, weighed down as they are by some 60 + pounds of kit - do you see that? nope! of course not - it is merely Emperor's new clothes, brilliant marketing.

There my opinion

Exactly this.

 

[JillGat]

While I don't use them hiking at home on narrow trails, I get a lot of benefit from my Pacer poles on the Camino. I think they really take the stress off joints and also prevent falls on steep declines. My only dilemma is I think people walking with trekking poles look like idiots.

 

[JillGat]

I think that,for some,they are a bit of a fad. Years ago on the Le Puy route I met a lecturer in biomechanical engineering and he bluntly asked someone why he had them..the reply was because others were using them even tough he thought they were doing no good. I've lost count how many times I've seen these poles trailed along the ground,slung across the shoulders or gently tapping on asphalt..the benefit?..nil. Another time someone was walking across a small slipway with ankle deep water and as he slipped he came down and missed spearing himself in the leg with the point. I also find it odd that you need to "learn" how to use them properly. To me they seem like a con from the skiing pole manufacturers..I can just hear them.."look fellas how can we flog these things out of skiing season?...I know lets say they take 40% pressure off your knees,hang on that's too much..make it 25%"

There are actually some pretty convincing data supposting the use of poles. Look on the Pacerpoles website.

 

[mikebet]

Every time I see a statue or painting of a pilgrim from days of yore they always seem to have a pole or staff in hand. You can't go wrong following in the footsteps of the original pilgrims. That's the idea, isn't it?

 

[Anamya]

I ended up taking the poles with me, and they were useful on the uphills.
On downhills and flat, I would just tied them to the backpack - they actually make me loose balance when going down. Maybe because I'm more like a free-style-almost-parkour type of walker? My partner always says it looks like I'm going to crash flat faced when I go downhill, but somehow I get there in very good shape with no knee issues

So yeah, I still don't like poles in general, but will say that it was nice to have the extra support when going up all those mountains along the Lebaniego. I think I finally manage to find a pace that does not make them tangle with my legs. As someone mentioned before, it was the style that you move your poles once, but gives almost two steps on the meantime.

 

[JillGat]

Every time I see a statue or painting of a pilgrim from days of yore they always seem to have a pole or staff in hand. You can't go wrong following in the footsteps of the original pilgrims. That's the idea, isn't it?

Exactly. Which is why I wear sandals, too!

 

[JillGat]

I understand what you were trying to say, and that you were attempting to give an example to underscore your point.

Can you see how it reads as being condescending and stereotypical, though? If you had left out the word 'older' in that sentence, you would have a legitimate point. The word 'older' made your sentence a specific statement about the totality of those within that age group, labeling them as being infirm.

That is why some might view what you wrote in a negative light.

That, and the fact that some of the best mountaineers in the world use them.

 

[Robo]

While I don't use them hiking at home on narrow trails, I get a lot of benefit from my Pacer poles on the Camino. I think they really take the stress off joints and also prevent falls on steep declines. My only dilemma is I think people walking with trekking poles look like idiots.

Most do, because very few people use them correctly

 

[Moorwalker]

I started walking with poles when I joined a Nordic Walking group, recommended by my physio. Nordic walking is an established and beneficial activity/exercise in Northern Europe and much-promoted by physiotherapists and exercise physicians. It was a good decision for me, to support therapy I need to manage chronic health problems. And, happily, all the training helped enormously on my first Camino last year. Not a con, when poles are used appropriately.

That is actually a cogent point. But Nordic walking is a technique for walking very rapidly and of using most of your body muscles rather than just your legs in order to get aerobic exercise and is probably not appropriate for many peregrinos.

That also reflects onto the comments about pushing with your poles, again, that is really only appropriate for someone who is already fit and who wishes to walk even faster. Someone who does not have the aerobic fitness already will find that to strenuous and will revert to the tippy-tappy motion we see so often on the Camino.

I figure that poles are effective for two main groups. First, the rapid, very fit walkers who use their poles to add extra momentum. Second, those who are using them for stability on rough ground or steep descents, or for helping them up the steeper climbs. There is perhaps a third group, those whose gait is lopsided because of injury or irregular build for whom poles help to reduce the irregularity of the gait. Most of the rest are not getting any particular benefit.

 

[Moorwalker]

Every time I see a statue or painting of a pilgrim from days of yore they always seem to have a pole or staff in hand. You can't go wrong following in the footsteps of the original pilgrims. That's the idea, isn't it?

However I suspect there was a fair bit of fashion involved in that too. Bear in mind that in medieval times a staff was not just a walking stick, it was also a weapon, a tool, and an aid to carrying things. A quarterstaff is a surprisingly effective weapon in the hands of someone who has trained with it, I once saw off 2 thugs who jumped me on the street, with the aid of the clothes prop that I had just bought and was carrying home. If I were a medieval traveller I might well be glad of a staff with which I could fend off trouble from animals and people.

As a walking stick it could have been very useful. Again looking back to the past there were no smooth, even roads, much of the route would be rough tracks and as many people now have discovered a bit of extra support for stability comes in useful for that sort of terrain.

It's quite fun to read the old Boy Scout handbooks too, where they talk about a Scout's staff. I have one of my Dad's old 1920s books on the sbject here but it's also available online here.

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[Moorwalker]

Exactly. Which is why I wear sandals, too!

I wear sandals because I like to walk in them. There is just as much fashion in footwear for walkers as there is in poles. For a long time people have worn boots mostly because it was received wisdom that walking=boots. That has been questioned over the last 10 years or so by the long distance trail walkers and now light trail runners are as common as boots on the trails.

 

[David]

Agree totally with Moorwalker re history and uses of a good staff. Also become a triped on rough terrain.

Here a photo from that Scout link - Fab isn't it!!

 

[J F Gregory]

While I don't use them hiking at home on narrow trails, I get a lot of benefit from my Pacer poles on the Camino. I think they really take the stress off joints and also prevent falls on steep declines. My only dilemma is I think people walking with trekking poles look like idiots.

Duh... I resemble that remark. Why would you care what people think?

 

[C clearly]

Why would you care what people think?

I realize that was probably a rhetorical question, but I'll respond anyway!

Everyone cares what other people think. Well, at least everyone who cares about their role in society does. We all struggle with how much and in what ways we are willing to be "different."

 

[WayWalker]

It's taken 60 years for me to not care what others think. Especially how I look with walking sticks! Meh.......

 

[C clearly]

It's taken 60 years for me to not care what others think. Especially how I look with walking sticks! Meh.......

Exactly! But that doesn't answer the question about why you used to care what others thought?

I agree that, with old age upon me, I am more confident in accepting/ignoring others' opinions on various aspects of my life. Especially what I look like. What we look like and how attractive we are to others is surely a very primal concern/instinct for younger people, and not something that is not easily discarded. What we wear and how we present ourselves sends a message at any age.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Agree totally with Moorwalker re history and uses of a good staff. Also become a triped on rough terrain.

Here a photo from that Scout link - Fab isn't it!!

View attachment 61807

Love the idea of "a cocking tripod"

Edit: just realised it's 'Merican . . . Band-Aids and mis-spelt centre . . . "a cocking tripod" probably means something different "over there"

 

[Anna Cameron]

That is actually a cogent point. But Nordic walking is a technique for walking very rapidly and of using most of your body muscles rather than just your legs in order to get aerobic exercise and is probably not appropriate for many peregrinos.

That also reflects onto the comments about pushing with your poles, again, that is really only appropriate for someone who is already fit and who wishes to walk even faster. Someone who does not have the aerobic fitness already will find that to strenuous and will revert to the tippy-tappy motion we see so often on the Camino.

I figure that poles are effective for two main groups. First, the rapid, very fit walkers who use their poles to add extra momentum. Second, those who are using them for stability on rough ground or steep descents, or for helping them up the steeper climbs. There is perhaps a third group, those whose gait is lopsided because of injury or irregular build for whom poles help to reduce the irregularity of the gait. Most of the rest are not getting any particular benefit.

Believe me, I am not a rapid walker, nor even a particularly fit one! I walked the CF as a spiritual journey and the poles permitted me to walk safely, at my slow pace (very very slow on the ascents), without injury. I was still recovering from myocarditis last year and I live with chronic joint pain. So, I fit into the second and third categories described above. Nordic walking is indeed an activity which uses all muscle groups and improves aerobic fitness, and it was through my walking group that I gained the confidence to head off on pilgrimage. The poles were an important part of that journey.

 

[Derrybiketours]

Wow, what's wonderful about this forum is all the varied opinion, insight, knowledge and first hand accounts and experiences. Everything is subjective and I'm sure the op instinctly knows what works best. Sometimes life can be overcomplicated by props and foreign objects. The simple lesson learned by many is the simplicity of the Camino, carry what you need not what you want. Walking is a primal instinct, it comes naturally to the majority of us, there is a technique to walking efficiently and for managing various terrain. On uneven, hilly or slippery ground our walking rhythm adapts to change, our preservation instinct heightens and we prepare to slip, slide or fall. Falling over is a natural consequence of a learned experience. There is a technique in falling, and as a last resort the body's defensive instinct of survival kicks in and and outstretched arms and palms help to break a fall, the muscle's relax and make impact less damaging. Prepare to walk, prepare to fall. Walk with awareness of surroundings including hazard's. Do what comes naturally. If instinct requires prop, find something free from nature and discard when no longer need it. KISS, Keep it Simple Stupid

 

[J F Gregory]

I use to back pack when I was much younger carrying 50 lbs. was nothing. When I was in my mid 40's I broke my back where I worked. And it took a while to start walking properly. I figured my packing days were over until 23 years later my wife want to walk the Camino. I hadn't carried a pack in those years and questioned my ability to walk over 500 miles. My friend who summits high mountains told me to use a walking stick. 1 was good and I figure 1 is good then 2 must be better. Because of my previously broken body and my age we walked slow, but made it. I always use poles, even for short treks. I don't care what others think when they see me with my poles, wearing my kilt.

 

[dougfitz]

Love the idea of "a cocking tripod"

Edit: just realised it's 'Merican . . . Band-Aids and mis-spelt centre . . . "a cocking tripod" probably means something different "over there"

If the illustration above that text is any clue, then what you might be interpreting as a second 'c' might just be a badly formed 'o'.

 

[dougfitz]

That is actually a cogent point. But Nordic walking is a technique for walking very rapidly and of using most of your body muscles rather than just your legs in order to get aerobic exercise and is probably not appropriate for many peregrinos.

That also reflects onto the comments about pushing with your poles, again, that is really only appropriate for someone who is already fit and who wishes to walk even faster. Someone who does not have the aerobic fitness already will find that to strenuous and will revert to the tippy-tappy motion we see so often on the Camino.

I figure that poles are effective for two main groups. First, the rapid, very fit walkers who use their poles to add extra momentum. Second, those who are using them for stability on rough ground or steep descents, or for helping them up the steeper climbs. There is perhaps a third group, those whose gait is lopsided because of injury or irregular build for whom poles help to reduce the irregularity of the gait. Most of the rest are not getting any particular benefit.

While I agree with some of this, I certainly wouldn't support the idea that the benefits of pole use are limited to the groups that @Moorwalker talks about here. Anyone who uses poles properly will get a benefit from doing that. Certainly there is a group of people who, for some reason or another, don't use the poles effectively. They are the only ones not likely to get much benefit.

I think that the problem starts with the idea that pilgrims would be nordic walking with high levels of aerobic exertion. Were this to be so, the analysis that follows in @Moorwalker's post might work.

But that is just not realistically what pilgrims using trekking pole are doing. Using trekking poles is not about greater speed or improved aerobic capacity, but about rebalancing the loads on the body to shift some of the load from the lower body (hips, knees and ankles) to the upper body (wrists, elbows and shoulders). This can be done irrespective of one's strength. Certainly the stronger one is, the more weight can be shifted, but not being strong does not stop the benefits from being accrued.

 

[willydp]

I use poles myself and can confirm that they are beneficial.
It involves training to use them properly!
That is were most people fail to do before departure on the Camino.
Yes you get sore upperarm muscles when used properly at first.
Like said before they benefit for stability and at the same time an easier way to walk.
Train before you go to the Camino, not only walking with your backpack, but it is probably the reason why people think they walk like an idiot...not enough (or no) training
But it everybody's choice to use or not to use them and also to refrein from comment on what others decide too.
Carpe Diem - Buen Camino

 

[Jeff Crawley]

If the illustration above that text is any clue, then what you might be interpreting as a second 'c' might just be a badly formed 'o'.

 

[Rpeet1]

Backgroud: Up to this day, two caminos and many other travelling around the world without walking poles.
Simply put, I hate them: feel uncoordinated, tired, dislike the noise even with rubber tips - hate them so much that i'm concious of being biased against them.

Situation: we are going on the Camino Lebaniego in April. Lots of mountains. I gave in and got a pair of poles to help me on the uphills. I occasionally borrowed my partner's pole when going uphil in previous trails, and there are benefits in using them, so well, decided to try.
I am training with them for two months now. I'm watching videos on how to position. I had them fitted at the store. I asked help from my cousin who is a physiotherapist.

And I still feel extremely tired, with sore arms and very irritated by the end of any walk with those sticks of doom. When people ask me "but you are getting extra support, right?" Sincerely, I don't know. I totally don't feel it, even though they are apparently well fitted. Only feel it when going uphill.

Question: Should I simply ditch them and go as I always did, pole free? Or are the Picos de Europa really challenging and I would benefit from the uphill support?

Ditch them...I didn't use them and saw MOSt people just carrying them.

 

[Linda Fantillo]

Just started doing regular walks to prepare for my 4th Camino in May - the Primitivo and El Salvador. I use Pacer Poles, and although I haven't started carrying my pack yet - my body feels better already - Pacer Pole Mantra - shoulders down and gently back - I am so much more aware of my body this way and I just need to keep this mantra in my head always - not just when training, but all the time. My neck, shoulders and back feel the better for it.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Ditch them...I didn't use them and saw MOSt people just carrying them.

Just started doing regular walks to prepare for my 4th Camino in May - the Primitivo and El Salvador. I use Pacer Poles, and although I haven't started carrying my pack yet - my body feels better already - Pacer Pole Mantra - shoulders down and gently back - I am so much more aware of my body this way and I just need to keep this mantra in my head always - not just when training, but all the time. My neck, shoulders and back feel the better for it.

Given that this thread is nearly a year old, I suspect that the OP is already finished with her Camino.

 

[Deleted member 56069]

Given that this thread is nearly a year old, I suspect that the OP is already finished with her Camino.

I would hate to think the OP is sitting beside the trail still glaring at her hated trekking poles and frozen into inaction because of it.
We are just about due for another thread on poles though...

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I would hate to think the OP is sitting beside the trail still glaring at her hated trekking poles and frozen into inaction because of it.
We are just about due for another thread on poles though...

LOL!!!! Good one

 

[Helen1]

... dislike the noise even with rubber tips...

Ahhh... the joyous clatter of walking poles on the camino... feels a bit like nails on a blackboard to me . I dislike the noise too. My poles increasingly reside in my rucksack and only get used on very steep uphill, very slippy downhills or if I'm really tired at the end of a long day because the clack has begun to irritate me, Not sure how I would cope if I lived on the camino woke up to the clatter of poles everyday!

 

[Anamya]

I would hate to think the OP is sitting beside the trail still glaring at her hated trekking poles and frozen into inaction because of it.

You have no idea how much I laughed reading this

@davebugg is right, I already went, came back and started planning the next.

I took the infamous poles with me on that occasion (Camino Lebaniego). I will admit they were useful on the uphills.
On downhills or flat, however, I just stuck to my natural parkour-like approach to trails while the poles went to the pack.

And I can't believe I'm helping resurrect a topic on poles...

 

[MikeJS]

I use a single pole occasionally. For example, on steep downhills or going across some difficult steeping stones or warding off a large dog! It spends the vast majority of its time tied to my rucksack. Otherwise, I actively dislike the annoying click, click, click of those dam poles - even more so when they are being used to walk along a perfectly flat city pavement…..

 

[Anamiri]

Backgroud: Up to this day, two caminos and many other travelling around the world without walking poles.
Simply put, I hate them: feel uncoordinated, tired, dislike the noise even with rubber tips - hate them so much that i'm concious of being biased against them.

Situation: we are going on the Camino Lebaniego in April. Lots of mountains. I gave in and got a pair of poles to help me on the uphills. I occasionally borrowed my partner's pole when going uphil in previous trails, and there are benefits in using them, so well, decided to try.
I am training with them for two months now. I'm watching videos on how to position. I had them fitted at the store. I asked help from my cousin who is a physiotherapist.

And I still feel extremely tired, with sore arms and very irritated by the end of any walk with those sticks of doom. When people ask me "but you are getting extra support, right?" Sincerely, I don't know. I totally don't feel it, even though they are apparently well fitted. Only feel it when going uphill.

Question: Should I simply ditch them and go as I always did, pole free? Or are the Picos de Europa really challenging and I would benefit from the uphill support?

How was your Camino Lebaniego?

 

[Deleted member 397]

Thanks @David. Here's the followup (but on a 1 km trail with an average 47% slope with "athletes [loaded] with approximately 40% of their body weight".):

AT STEEP GRADES USING TREKKING POLES IS 20% EASIER AND 10% MORE EFFICIENT
https://mtntactical.com/research/steep-grades-hiking-trekking-poles-20-easier-10-efficient/

None of those criteria seem to apply to the caminos

 

[Deleted member 397]

A

That, and the fact that some of the best mountaineers in the world use them.

Ah yes the well known mountains encoutered on the caminos

 

[VNwalking]

Ah yes the well known mountains encoutered on the caminos

Like these?

View media item 9801
View media item 9747

 

[dougfitz]

And I can't believe I'm helping resurrect a topic on poles...

... and pole advocates like me really appreciate your support!!

 

[NorthernLight]

... and 2 pole dislikers like me also appreciate the ongoing discussion.

 

[c0484]

I use to back pack when I was much younger carrying 50 lbs. was nothing. When I was in my mid 40's I broke my back where I worked. And it took a while to start walking properly. I figured my packing days were over until 23 years later my wife want to walk the Camino. I hadn't carried a pack in those years and questioned my ability to walk over 500 miles. My friend who summits high mountains told me to use a walking stick. 1 was good and I figure 1 is good then 2 must be better. Because of my previously broken body and my age we walked slow, but made it. I always use poles, even for short treks. I don't care what others think when they see me with my poles, wearing my kilt.

There is a correct way to use walking sticks and an incorrect way to use them. The incorrect way will make you hate them. On level and uphill ground, the tips of the poles never come forward past the heal of your foot. On downhill ground, place them in front of you for balance.

 

[Moorwalker]

If you don't like them, don't use them. There is no rule that says you have to despite the current fashion.

 

[Deleted member 56069]

You have no idea how much I laughed reading this

@davebugg is right, I already went, came back and started planning the next.

I took the infamous poles with me on that occasion (Camino Lebaniego). I will admit they were useful on the uphills.
On downhills or flat, however, I just stuck to my natural parkour-like approach to trails while the poles went to the pack.

And I can't believe I'm helping resurrect a topic on poles...

Good to hear you have moved past the trekking pole trauma and continue to enjoy Camino's! Gear is a very personal thing...whatever best suits each individual.
I was thinking maybe we could start a self help group for those that have been traumatized by trekking poles while on their Camino.

 

[Anamya]

How was your Camino Lebaniego?

Unforgettable, for many reasons. One of them was my husband going on seizure/coma one week before we departed. The other, his recovery and how the trail helped it. Third, the monastery itself.
If interested, the full camino description is here: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/our-stages-camino-lebaniego-april-2019.62071/

I was thinking maybe we could start a self help group for those that have been traumatized by trekking poles while on their Camino.

Hi, my name is Ana and I have a problem.
I don't like poles. They do clack-clack. But them they were my friends uphill. And horrible downhill. I feel confused and lost.

 

[Delphinoula]

Hi Ana glad you made it so far remember your posts.

Well poles are like everything else in life not everything is right for everybody.
I am coming from Cross Country skiing and Nordic Walking helped me with many issues. I took weight away from my athritic joints give me more security with negotiating my way so not to fall, help me keep breath walk and steps with my Asthma .so for me it’s a win win situation. But it needs skills my Nordic walking instructor Said you can walk you poles like a doggie and pull them behind yourself or you spear leaves on the way, but that’s not how you supposed to use them.

 

[David Tallan]

Ahhh... the joyous clatter of walking poles on the camino... feels a bit like nails on a blackboard to me . I dislike the noise too. My poles increasingly reside in my rucksack and only get used on very steep uphill, very slippy downhills or if I'm really tired at the end of a long day because the clack has begun to irritate me, Not sure how I would cope if I lived on the camino woke up to the clatter of poles everyday!

Personally, I like the noise. It brings back nice memories. That said, I recognize that I'm likely in the minority on this and use rubber tips.

I never understood people whose poles reside in their packs. For me, the poles are there to carry me, not visa versa.

But to each their own.