Comparing Brierley and yellow German guide now in English

[peregrina2000]

I know that there are "red" and "yellow" guides in German for various caminos. Unfortunately I don't speak German, but I remember on various occasions that a German pilgrim was able to pull out one of these books and answer questions from those of us walking with English guide. This happened most frequently on the Primitivo and Norte.

I was happy to see that the yellow guide to the Camino Frances has now been translated into English, only as an e-book. I'm wondering if anyone can give any feedback -- especially interesting would be the comparisons with Brierley's guide (loved by some, not by others). But what is great is that pilgrims have more choices!

Buen camino, Laurie

UPDATE: The yellow guide will be published as a paper book early in 2016.

 

[ivar]

The German guide that has been translated into English is this one:

http://www.santiagodecompostela.me/...f-st-james-camino-frances-the-way-is-the-goal

Would be nice to get some comment from people who have used both...

(post edited. added link to the camino store)

 

[grayland]

I have always been a fan of both of the German Language books.
This is the "yellow" book...the other one is the "Red" book by Rother

Both books are excellent..and in my opinon...superior to Brierley with information. It contains far more information on accomondations and restaurants. It does not have any "spiritual" wanderings taking up pages and adding to size.

Hopefully, they will soon translate the other routes in the near future. The LePuy edition (in German) is a great companion to the MMDD with excellent maps that are often needed on that route.

I would really recommend that new folks consider this guide for the Francis in place of the Brierley.
It should give you a bit of a different look at the route and maybe allow you to break away from the Lemming like flow with all of the others using Brierley and blindly following his recommendations for stages and accomondations.
I have met Brierley and think he is a very nice man. His book is very good...but not something that should be followed blindly as so many do.

 

[grayland]

The "Red" book by Rother (for information)

 

[peregrina2000]

Wait, does this mean that both the red and the yellow guides are now in English? An embarrassment of riches for English speakers!

 

[annakappa]

I just looked at the sample pages.
I like the use of distance between each village. This has removed the stages, leaving the pilgrim to decide how far to walk each day and NOT follow blindly the stages, as set by Brierly. (unless there follows a stage section, because, obviously I couldn't see that far into the guide)!

 

[wayfarer]

The "Red" book by Rother (for information)

I have this one but I haven't compared it to Brierly yet.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I know that there are "red" and "yellow" guides in German for various caminos. Unfortunately I don't speak German, but I remember on various occasions that a German pilgrim was able to pull out one of these books and answer questions from those of us walking with English guide. This happened most frequently on the Primitivo and Norte.

I was happy to see that the yellow guide to the Camino Frances has now been translated into English, only as an e-book. I'm wondering if anyone can give any feedback -- especially interesting would be the comparisons with Brierley's guide (loved by some, not by others). But what is great is that pilgrims have more choices!

Buen camino, Laurie

I downloaded a sample of the yellow book and was so impressed that I bought it. It's the first English language Camino guide for ebooks that I have come across. There are a few gramer issues but the guide is very readable. I used the Brierley's Portuguese camino guide book last year. I felt there was way too much useless information. I have read the Yellow eBook cover to cover. It appears to have all the information I need to walk the French way and allows me to avoid Brierley's death martches, and it's geared for the budget minded to boot.

I know some pilgrims feel that is sacroligious to carry a ebook but consider, I can keep in touch with friends and family, I can do some relaxation reading, keep a journal, review my pre travel notes, keep copies of important documents, and have my camino guide book all in something that is smaller and lighter that most guide books. Buen Camino

Happy Trails

 

[tpmchugh]

Just read the sample on Amazon and have to say, at over £9 I dont fancy it. I carried Brierleys guide but seldom used it and the one time I made a decision based on it, it sent me to Valverde in search of an albergue that no longer existed. The list of albergues from the pilgrim office in St Jean and the yellow arrows turned out to be the only guide I regularly used.

 

[C clearly]

My main concern about the Joos guide book is that I cannot enlarge and read the map images on my phone, and therefore it would not be a replacement for the Brierley map book. On Amazon, it says it is formatted for larger devices, so maybe this is the problem. Has anyone else tried to read the maps? I would like to know if it is a problem unique to my phone.

 

[Robo]

I just bought it to have a look. Whilst the text appears to be useful regarding accommodation, though rather ponderous to work through (6,000 pages on my phone), the maps IMHO are not very useful. They just show the route with the names of the villages. Nothing else.

I have used Brierley, and I particularly liked his maps. They show villages, distances, accommodation, water etc. I actually scanned the whole book as a pdf and carried it on my phone referring to it frequently each day. The fold out pages at the front, that carry the 'stage' maps, I also carried as a ready reckoner.

I also liked the Miam Miam Dodo, which is more of an accommodation guide. The maps in this are not good. The colour scheme for me at least makes it very hard to see where the route is. But I used the accommodation listing next the maps quire frequently. (no need to speak French to use this guide, It's easy to follow)

If I use the Raimond Joos at all, it would be to read 'as a book' prior to going, or to read at the end of each day to plan my way ahead. Not something I would use to access whilst walking...

 

[Robo]

My main concern about the Joos guide book is that I cannot enlarge and read the map images on my phone, and therefore it would not be a replacement for the Brierley map book. On Amazon, it says it is formatted for larger devices, so maybe this is the problem. Has anyone else tried to read the maps? I would like to know if it is a problem unique to my phone.

I could read and expand the maps on my phone. Samsung Note 3. But the maps have no detail, so not much use, as maps.

 

[peregrina2000]

I just bought it to have a look. Whilst the text appears to be useful regarding accommodation, though rather ponderous to work through (6,000 pages on my phone), the maps IMHO are not very useful. They just show the route with the names of the villages. Nothing else.
.

Ahhhhh -- the answer I've been waiting for. So it must be that the red guides have good maps! I always heard that as between the red and the yellow guides, one had good maps and one had better information. Thanks, Rob.

 

[C clearly]

I could read and expand the maps on my phone. Samsung Note 3.

Hmmm. I have a Samsung Galaxy Note 2, which is not that antiquated. Does it matter what app one uses? I have the Amazon Kindle app. I am not very experienced with e-books, so there might be some key factor I'm missing.

 

[Robo]

Hmmm. I have a Samsung Galaxy Note 2, which is not that antiquated. Does it matter what app one uses? I have the Amazon Kindle app. I am not very experienced with e-books, so there might be some key factor I'm missing.

I use the same app...

 

[Robo]

Ahhhhh -- the answer I've been waiting for. So it must be that the red guides have good maps! I always heard that as between the red and the yellow guides, one had good maps and one had better information. Thanks, Rob.

Seems the Red one is only available as a hard copy.... so I didn't try that one.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I could read and expand the maps on my phone. Samsung Note 3. But the maps have no detail, so not much use, as maps.

That is such a pity because I have these guides in German because of the maps. They show you the car routes, bur stations, train routes and stations and the Camino. If only for that they are worth the money in my mind.

Plus, they are ser compact so they fit in your pocket, but little room for notes.

 

[Saint Mike II]

I just looked at the sample pages.
I like the use of distance between each village. This has removed the stages, leaving the pilgrim to decide how far to walk each day and NOT follow blindly the stages, as set by Brierly. (unless there follows a stage section, because, obviously I couldn't see that far into the guide)!

Hi Anna - to quote an oft used phrase "I think I died and went to heaven" - I will definitely be loading this book onto the new iPad I will take on the bike Camino.

(Ivar - maybe these posts should/could be copied over to the biking section). Cheers

 

[ranthr]

Ahhhhh -- the answer I've been waiting for. So it must be that the red guides have good maps! I always heard that as between the red and the yellow guides, one had good maps and one had better information. Thanks, Rob.

When i was at VdlP some years ago I used the Rotherguide and the English Alison Raju guide. Most German people brought the yellow outdoor guide and it was the best then on maps and descriptions. So if it is the same as an ebook I would prefer the yellow. Bought some of these for other routes, GR 65, the route from Valencia, routes through Germany and they look good.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Hmmm. I have a Samsung Galaxy Note 2, which is not that antiquated. Does it matter what app one uses? I have the Amazon Kindle app. I am not very experienced with e-books, so there might be some key factor I'm missing.

Ive got the Samsung, downloaded the Kindle App then the Yellow Book. No problems.

 

[C clearly]

Ive got the Samsung, downloaded the Kindle App then the Yellow Book. No problems.

Thanks for the feedback. I will re-install the app and see if that works.

 

[Jochen_Schmidtke]

When i was at VdlP some years ago I used the Rotherguide and the English Alison Raju guide. Most German people brought the yellow outdoor guide and it was the best then on maps and descriptions. So if it is the same as an ebook I would prefer the yellow. Bought some of these for other routes, GR 65, the route from Valencia, routes through Germany and they look good.

Hello.
Raimund Joos pilgrims guide is very popular under German speaking pilgrims since decades.
Raimund walks the camino regularly once a year and checks the accuracy and the actuality of his guide book. I wish he will do it for the next future!
I can highly recommend his guide!
Buen Camino
Jochen

 

[CaminoRay]

I downloaded the yellow guide to my iPhone and will take it on my Camino as well as John Brierley's guide book. The Yellow book is more in depth but I would have to use data while I'm looking at it on the move. Brierley guide can be used while walking better. I will also use Yellow book when there is wifi.

 

[Siom]

I downloaded the yellow guide to my iPhone and will take it on my Camino as well as John Brierley's guide book. The Yellow book is more in depth but I would have to use data while I'm looking at it on the move. Brierley guide can be used while walking better. I will also use Yellow book when there is wifi.

isn't the yellow book available on kindle? you should be able to access it without Internet unless the kindle app for Apple is different.

 

[ivar]

isn't the yellow book available on kindle? you should be able to access it without Internet unless the kindle app for Apple is different.

Yes, I have it in my Kindle app on my phone. No internet connection needed.

 

[CaminoRay]

I stand corrected on data use for Yellow book. I know better than that but I had too many after dinner drinks to celebrate my Camino in 2 weeks. Thank you Siom.

 

[Jodean]

I am glad to see this comparison. Had the Yellow German book in my hand yesterday and then decided that I should order the Bierly book on Amazon as it isn't available in the German bookstores. Looks like I should go buy the yellow book after all, since I read German ok. I did like the maps and info in it.

 

[Raimund Joos]

Hi

Tomorrow I leave to the Camino Frances and then will be up to 01.10 on the way between Astorga and Santiago. If someone wants to give me his feedback to the book there directli he/she is warmly invited.... I wear a brown leather hat and les hair than on the photo

Bon Camino

Raimund

Ps: I will be NOT online.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Ps: I will be NOT online.

So I would have to get out of my chair to communicate with you???

Have a buen camino. I like the translation, by the way.

 

[Raimund Joos]

So I would have to get out of my chair to communicate with you??

Thank you!
Yes - at least for short time ...exactly this is the philosophy of the Camino!

BC

Raimund

 

[JillGat]

I don't see how to download this onto my Kindle. Amazon says it's only for the UK? I see other Americans got it... can you give me a link? Thanks.

 

[C clearly]

I don't see how to download this onto my Kindle. Amazon says it's only for the UK?

If you used the link at the top of the post, it would be just for the UK (it has UK in the URL). In Canada, we need to go to amazon.ca. I'm guessing that you should search for it by name or author on amazon.com and you'll be able to purchase it.

 

[BlueBowers]

I don't see how to download this onto my Kindle. Amazon says it's only for the UK? I see other Americans got it... can you give me a link? Thanks.

You should be able to get from the "books" section on your Kindle. I'm sure that's how I ordered the book. Then you can download to a phone as well.

 

[ivar]

The "yellow" book is now available to be bought on the Forum Store here:
http://www.santiagodecompostela.me/...f-st-james-camino-frances-the-way-is-the-goal

It is a digital download (pdf document) that I think an be useful to load onto tablet/phone for those walking with that.

Buen camino!
Ivar

 

[peregrina2000]

A bonus that is not clearly advertised on the book's cover, and that I am just now seeing, is that this guide also includes Santiago to Finisterre. That obviates the need for two guides (even though the tourist office's guide to Finisterre and Muxía is perfectly adequate, I know that some people like to have more complete descriptions).

 

[Raimund Joos]

A bonus that is not clearly advertised on the book's cover, and that I am just now seeing, is that this guide also includes Santiago to Finisterre. That obviates the need for two guides (even though the tourist office's guide to Finisterre and Muxía is perfectly adequate, I know that some people like to have more complete descriptions).

@ peregrina2000 and everyone that made proposals and gave feedback on the book.

In a first edition there is always something that can be improved, that is why the translators and I are truely grateful for every proposal made in the forum or send to my email adress: info@camino-de-santiago.de

February or March 2016 the first print version of the book is projected to be published .....then everything will become better ;-)

Bon Camino

Raimund

 

[ivar]

This book (in its paper version) is now available for pre-order from the forum shop here:
http://www.santiagodecompostela.me/...ntiago-finisterre-outdoor-the-way-is-the-goal

The eBook is no longer available (as of December 31st) since the EU laws on VAT payments om Digital Downloads made the whole thing so difficult to manage, that it was "too much in the end".

This is a pre-order, meaning that you can "get in line" now (buy it) and I will ship it out as soon as I have it here. Should be the first week of February. To see some sample pages of this book, have a look here:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/images/outdoor-sample.pdf

Buen Camino!
Ivar

 

[Anemone del Camino]

This book (in its paper version) is now available for pre-order from the forum shop here:
http://www.santiagodecompostela.me/...ntiago-finisterre-outdoor-the-way-is-the-goal

The eBook is no longer available (as of December 31st) since the EU laws on VAT payments om Digital Downloads made the whole thing so difficult to manage, that it was "too much in the end".

This is a pre-order, meaning that you can "get in line" now (buy it) and I will ship it out as soon as I have it here. Should be the first week of February. To see some sample pages of this book, have a look here:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/images/outdoor-sample.pdf

Buen Camino!
Ivar

I guess this guide will also have to come join my Camino guides collection. I love how the author does not mince his words: munies are for those who walk from their last bunk carrying their bag, WIFI is destroyin albergue atmosphere and some hospitaleros are Opus members.

He says some albergues have removed WIFI because of the change in atmosphere. Is that really so? Also, I would love to know where those pesky Opus hospitaleros are serving .

I also like that he lists every possible stop, showing exactly how few times one must walk a longer distance of 2 hours or so more.

 

[Saint Mike II]

Ivar - thanks for the update. So where can I get an e_book English version of the Yellow guide?? I am thinking ahead and want to cut down on weight. Thanks Mike

 

[SYates]

... So where can I get an e_book English version of the Yellow guide?? I am thinking ahead and want to cut down on weight. Thanks Mike

Here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010Q1ME6U/?tag=casaivar02-20 or in your local Amazon store searching for the title. Buen Camino, SY

 

[Raimund Joos]

I guess this guide will also have to come join my Camino guides collection. I love how the author does not mince his words: munies are for those who walk from their last bunk carrying their bag, WIFI is destroyin albergue atmosphere and some hospitaleros are Opus members.

He says some albergues have removed WIFI because of the change in atmosphere. Is that really so? Also, I would love to know where those pesky Opus hospitaleros are serving .

I also like that he lists every possible stop, showing exactly how few times one must walk a longer distance of 2 hours or so more.

Better ask the hopitaleros yourself. Not all members of Opus Dei are bad people. In Spain, for a catholic priest it is quite normal to be a member of the Opus.

Almost all hospitaleros I interviewed were of the opinion that the Wifi harmed the atmosphere of their alberge . Of course, only a few of them want to miss the well paying internet addicted customers . ;-)

Bon Camino!

Raimund

 

[ivar]

FYI: The Yellow book (paper version) is now shipping from Santiago (got it in last night):
http://www.santiagodecompostela.me/...ntiago-finisterre-outdoor-the-way-is-the-goal

 

[anniethenurse]

@peregrina2000

Wait, does this mean that both the red and the yellow guides are now in English? An embarrassment of riches for English speakers!

The red Rother guide has been available in English for quite many years!
I have got one published in 2007 which I used om my first camino Frances.
It covers Aragones, CF and Finisterre/ Muxia.

 

[BrianForbesColgate]

Spain: Way of St. James Camino Francés (The Way is the Goal Book 23)
Kindle Edition
by Raimund Joos (Author)
Canada: Amazon.CA C$9.99
http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B010Q1ME6U/?tag=santiagodec0b-20
USA: Amazon.com US$14.99 [Now that's a switch!]
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B010Q1ME6U/?tag=casaivar02-20
UK: Amazon.co.UK £9.49
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B010Q1ME6U/?tag=casaivar-21

 

[grayland]

I just returned from the Camino Frances again (January/February).
I used the Kindle edition.
I take back my recommendation for this book. The translation makes it almost unusable in many places.
I had difficulty understanding what was being said even though I am very familiar with the CF.
I no longer recommend the guide

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, grayland,

Other forum members had made the same comments, so two of us did the best we could to work on the language in the short time between kindle publication and hard copy publication. I think the hard copy is much improved, but could probably use more work with more time.

So, based on grayland's comments I would recommend that anyone who is going to use this book go for the hard copy, at least until the publishers change the kindle version.

 

[weradln]

Downloaded the Kindle version last night onto my iPhone. Hoping that any updated versions will be gratis for a reasonable time from original purchase. Say two years??

Leaving SJPDP on April 17. Will give the book a good test.

 

[Raimund Joos]

Like peregrina2000 I would also recommend the hard copy publication (for exaple soled by Ivar).
This is handy and also updated for 2016. The e-book (updatet for June 2015) will probably not be so often sold that an annual publication for the publisher is provitable.

And here you can see if you cope with the style and translation of the book.
PDF-Sample (hard copy publication - January 2016)

Ps:
Possibly also the following review of La Concha (Newsletter of the American Pilgrims on the Camino ) is interesting for you.

"Our perfect guidebook will probably never be written. Each one now available has its strengths, and this one measures up well, particularly when paired with online or other sources of near real-time lodging information available to pilgrims"

The entire review can be found in the following link on page 8.
http://www.americanpilgrims.org/assets/newsletter/archived/la_concha_1607.pdf

BC

Raimund

 

[Martha567]

I used Raimund's book in English for my first Camino this May. Although I cannot compare it to Bierly guide, I recommend the yellow guide book without any reservation. It served me well, I found all needed info in it!

 

[Melensdad]

I just returned from the Camino Frances again (January/February).
I used the Kindle edition.
I take back my recommendation for this book. The translation makes it almost unusable in many places.
I had difficulty understanding what was being said even though I am very familiar with the CF.
I no longer recommend the guide

I agree.

While I think many parts of the "Yellow" book are better than Brierly's guide, I also found the translation so bad that the book was unusable.

I found the Michelin Guide and the Village to Village (Kindle edition) have much better maps, much better descriptions than the Brierly Guide.

 

[NualaOC]

I just returned from the Camino Frances again (January/February).
I used the Kindle edition.
I take back my recommendation for this book. The translation makes it almost unusable in many places.
I had difficulty understanding what was being said even though I am very familiar with the CF.

I agree.
While I think many parts of the "Yellow" book are better than Brierly's guide, I also found the translation so bad that the book was unusable.

I'm curious to know why you both found the translated German guide to be 'unusable'. I will be walking a section of the CF later this year and plan to use this book. I like the structure, maps and its factual content. It's clear when reading the book that it's a translation, but I don't find that to be annoying in any way.

Are there particular sections where you consider the directions/information to be inadequate or misleading?

I know that guidebook preferences are a very personal thing, but blanket criticisms like this aren't very helpful without more specific justifications.

 

[peregrina2000]

I'm curious to know why you both found the translated German guide to be 'unusable'. I will be walking a section of the CF later this year and plan to use this book. I like the structure, maps and its factual content. It's clear when reading the book that it's a translation, but I don't find that to be annoying in any way.

Are there particular sections where you consider the directions/information to be inadequate or misleading?

I know that guidebook preferences are a very personal thing, but blanket criticisms like this aren't very helpful without more specific justifications.

Hi, Nuala,
I think, but am not 100% certain, that the criticisms about language have to do with the kindle version. A couple of forum members offered to do a quick revision of the language for the publication of the hard copy version, which happened several months after the issue of the kindle version. I'm sure the hard copy book is not perfect, but I'm pretty confident that it is perfectly usable.

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[NualaOC]

Hi, Nuala,
I think, but am not 100% certain, that the criticisms about language have to do with the kindle version. A couple of forum members offered to do a quick revision of the language for the publication of the hard copy version, which happened several months after the issue of the kindle version. I'm sure the hard copy book is not perfect, but I'm pretty confident that it is perfectly usable.
Buen camino, Laurie

Thanks Laurie, that makes sense. I couldn't understand such strong criticisms in the context of the written guide - which seems really good to me.

 

[grayland]

Laurie is correct. I am referring to the Kindle edition.
I had walked the CF 3 previous times...so was familiar with the route. The information presented in the Kindle edition made no sense to me in many cases. I am not saying it was not factual....just did not make any sense without sitting and working out what it was talking about.
Not something you want to do while walking.
I am sure that it will be fixed soon and will be a good resource. The maps are excellent....if you need maps on the CF.

 

[dougfitz]

I used the Kobo edition this year, which might be similar to the Kindle version of the e-book. It was usable, reliable regarding distances and other basic facts, but the sentence structures are often awkward, and many of the word choices appear unusual to an antipodean reader. I didn't refer to this regularly when walking, as I might with a printed guide, but did read the description of the following day's walk before starting out on most days.

 

[Melensdad]

I'm curious to know why you both found the translated German guide to be 'unusable'. ...

I had the paperback version of the book.

Maps were excellent. Basic directions seemed accurate and reasonably understandable.

The translation was simply badly done. I took German language classes from 4th grade through my Sophomore year in college, honestly I wish I had gotten the book in its original German because while my German is very very rusty, I believe I would have been able to make better sense out of the original text than out of the paperback edition translated to English with sentence structure and wording choices that were nearly nonsensical.

(post moderator edited to remove harsh remarks.)

 

[trecile]

I used the Kobo edition this year, which might be similar to the Kindle version of the e-book. It was usable, reliable regarding distances and other basic facts, but the sentence structures are often awkward, and many of the word choices appear unusual to an antipodean reader. I didn't refer to this regularly when walking, as I might with a printed guide, but did read the description of the following day's walk before starting out on most days.

Word choices like antipodean? Lol

 

[NualaOC]

Laurie is correct. I am referring to the Kindle edition.
I had walked the CF 3 previous times...so was familiar with the route. The information presented in the Kindle edition made no sense to me in many cases. I am not saying it was not factual....just did not make any sense without sitting and working out what it was talking about.
Not something you want to do while walking.
I am sure that it will be fixed soon and will be a good resource. The maps are excellent....if you need maps on the CF.

Thanks @grayland for the clarification.

I had the paperback version of the book.

Maps were excellent. Basic directions seemed accurate and reasonably understandable.

The translation was simply badly done. I took German language classes from 4th grade through my Sophomore year in college, honestly I wish I had gotten the book in its original German because while my German is very very rusty, I believe I would have been able to make better sense out of the original text than out of the paperback edition translated to pigeon-English with sentence structure and wording choices that were nearly nonsensical.

Thanks @Melensdad for your response. I agree that the maps are excellent and that the directions are accurate and understandable.

Your comments about the translation are IMO somewhat extreme. I agree with @dougfitz that the sentence structure is a little unusual at times, but I quite like that quirkiness. Each to their own, but let's try to be polite and constructive when expressing our views here.

 

[Melensdad]

Your comments about the translation are IMO somewhat extreme. I agree with @dougfitz that the sentence structure is a little unusual at times, but I quite like that quirkiness. Each to their own, but let's try to be polite and constructive when expressing our views here.

I disagree with you on my opinion being somewhat extreme. I felt they were accurate.

Further I believe I was polite. I was asked for more information. I provided it as best as I could and feel the information I provided is legitimate and, in no way, impolite. You may enjoy the 'quirkiness' but I found it obtuse and often unusable.

 

[peregrina2000]

Maybe a few concrete examples would help everyone make their own opinion. I also found the comments a bit extreme. I can assure you that neither the translator, nor the native speakers who did a quick review, are either third graders or computers.

 

[C clearly]

The translation was simply badly done. Not sure if it was a 3rd grader who did the translation or if it was translated by a computer program, but it was simply a bad translation with horrid sentence structure. Embarrassingly bad. I took German language classes from 4th grade through my Sophomore year in college, honestly I wish I had gotten the book in its original German because while my German is very very rusty, I believe I would have been able to make better sense out of the original text than out of the paperback edition translated to pigeon-English with sentence structure and wording choices that were nearly nonsensical.

Your first sentence (quoted above) stated a valid opinion, but the rest is exaggeration and insult. Sometimes that works to create humour, but it certainly didn't succeed in this case. You have expressed similarly insulting comments about another well known guide book, so perhaps you should just do without.

A couple of forum members offered to do a quick revision of the language for the publication of the hard copy version, which happened several months after the issue of the kindle version.

I was one of those forum members. I saw that the Kindle version needed a good edit by a native English speaker. I communicated with the author, with courtesy and constructive criticism, and offered to help out before the book was issued in paper. Over the next few months, we had Skype and email discussions that included the translator and editor. These are all people with a passion for the camino, who are not getting rich off this guide. I then worked on part of the book to remove some of the errors. However, it proved to be difficult and time consuming, with the amount of detail involved. Also, we did not want to completely take away the author's "voice" which, as others have noted, is part of the uniqueness and charm of the book. It is not a commercially-focused, high-end-market sanitized book published by Fodor.

The walking directions are very detailed and when there is a minor error in punctuation or structure, it can become confusing. It is notoriously difficult to give directions like that. However, that didn't seem to cause you any difficulty as you said

Basic directions seemed accurate and reasonably understandable.

Professional editing of the whole book would be very expensive and/or take much more time than was available before the printing was to be done, and many people had been urging the author to get the "Yellow German Guide" out in English. So, we did the best we could with the time available, and I am confident that the printed version was much improved. The author and our team recognized that more improvements would be desirable before the next printing.

So, I will volunteer again to help out and encourage the author to continue to improve this guide.

(By the way, I have extensive experience editing technical documents, and am not an amateur at it. I know what is involved so I am not quick to suggest I could do better than someone else with my eyes closed.)

 

[dougfitz]

Maybe a few concrete examples would help everyone make their own opinion. I also found the comments a bit extreme. I can assure you that neither the translator, nor the native speakers who did a quick review, are either third graders or computers.

I agree that the earlier disparaging descriptions of the translators are harsh and would appear unfair. There are, nonetheless, grammatical structures that could be improved. I don't think they are isolated, but to take an example from the description of the route leaving Zubiri, the text used is:

The Way leads you before the bridge (over which you reach the town) to the left and arrives after 2.8 km at the village Ilartz, a large part of the track blemished by a big Magnetite plant. Seldom-used small country roads lead you from here another 800 m in the village Ezkirotz.

This is awkward because while it is describing the exit from the town of Zubiri, it appears to be written from the perspective of someone who is not going to cross the bridge, but going straight on past the town. So someone coming across the bridge from the town needs to proceed to the right after crossing the bridge, not to the left. The construction that gives you the clue ('before the bridge') does not, in my view, clearly indicate that you have to see this set of directions as if one was walking towards the bridge from Alto de Erro. Does this make the text unusable? I think that this would be an issue that might confuse someone who is not familiar with the layout of the camino route in relation to the entry to Zubiri, but I wouldn't go so far as suggesting the whole book is unusable on that basis.

Other issues with the quoted text that might be addressed include:

1. altering the sequence 'and arrives after 2.8 km' to 'after 2.8 km arrives at';
2. inserting an 'of' before 'Ilartz';
3. using the correct verb 'is blemished';
4. removing the initial capital from 'Magnetite' and using 'where' as a connector at the start of that clause; and
5. replacing 'in the village' in the second sentence with 'to the village of'.

None of these latter points make the text unusable.

 

[C clearly]

I agree that the earlier disparaging descriptions of the translators are harsh and would appear unfair. There are, nonetheless, grammatical structures that could be improved.

What you say is very true, and it illustrates how much effort would go into a proper edit. Virtually every paragraph in the book could use improvement, and the walking instructions cannot be edited easily unless the editor is standing on the camino to check it!

When @peregrina2000 suggested that people should send specific examples, I rolled my eyes and sought shelter.

As you said, most of the editorial flaws do not make the text unusable.

 

[Raimund Joos]

Thanks so far for the feedbacks !

The judgement of the translation probably seems to be also a question of personal taste and ability.

I recommend the yellow guide book without any reservation. It served me well, I found all needed info in it!

The translation makes it almost unusable in many places.

None of these latter points make the text unusable.

...but I quite like that quirkiness.

Nevertheless we are grateful for feedbacks with concrete improvement suggestions as we want to satisfy possibly all readers. Please send it to:
info@camino-de-santiago.de

Everybody can read the text itself and judge.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/images/outdoor-sample.pdf

I recommend the following review of La Concha (Newsletter of the American Pilgrims on the Camino )
The entire review where also the translation is mentioned is to be found on the page 8
http://www.americanpilgrims.org/assets/newsletter/archived/la_concha_1607.pdf

Bon Camino!

Raimund

 

[Anke w]

Dear Pilgrims,
I am one of the translators of the yellow book and I appreciate to read the different feedback on the English version of the book. It was a side job done for a friend and me of mine while working full time jobs . I can surely say that I with my high-GPA Masters, and he with his high GPA Bachelors, both put much of our freetime and effort into such an idealistic translation project. We did our best! I can assure you that the friend who proofread for me is not a thirdgrader (nor am I) and he still owns an American Passport...speaking his mother tongue every day. Be advised that our instructions (often constraints) were to stay as close to the original German text as possible so as to not loose meaning, which often left text and structure that may seem strange to Americans. The German sentences in the original book are also quite long and complex. I know that in the English language the structure of sentences is different . I also was raised to be polite and always do my best in the true sense of a being a Christian. I also behave as such toward all people around me. Therefore, I invite everybody to email us constructive criticism or offer help and time to help improve the work...

 

[C clearly]

Dear Pilgrims,
Therefore, I invite everybody to email us constructive criticism or offer help and time to help improve the work...

Doing a bit on the project made me understand how complicated it is, and how hard to bring all the pieces together. There is a lot of information packed into every sentence, so it is not easy to translate and make eloquent at the same time! Trade-offs had to be made - does one do a quick edit and get the product out the door, or be perfectionist and delay publication? Doing a translation was probably harder in some ways than writing something from the start.

I hope this doesn't dampen your enthusiasm! Almost everyone on this forum respects your work.

Please let me know if I can help review a section of the document before the next publication.

 

[grayland]

Raimund's guide is a valuable addition to the Camino France's English language guides. The market has been dominated by Brierley for so long that virtually every new pilgrim follows it rather blindly.
This has led to many of the crowding problems we now see as everyone is following the "script". We need an alternative and I believe this is probably the one that will become a favorite in the future.

My original post in this thread was a recommendation for the newly translated Kindle guide...without actually using it. After using the Kindle version..while walking on the CF..I had to withdraw my recommendation for the reasons I stated.
I should also add that I am not a fan of any Kindle guide book and prefer print copies.
I stand by my remarks in the hope that correction will quickly be made.

I am very sure that the guide is bound to be a great asset and an alternative to Brierley. Raimund will have it reworked soon.
I understand that the print version, with it's very good maps is well done.
I have not used it.

 

[Raimund Joos]

I am very sure that the guide is bound to be a great asset and an alternative to Brierley. Raimund will have it reworked soon.

Thank you Grayland

I as all my book I will also (let) reworke this book before every new edition. As the E-book is seldom selled since the print copie appeared, it will be published may be every second edition. When the actual print copie will be soled off we come out with the new edition. Untill now I cant refrain when this will be - I think it will take some time.

Bon Camino

Raimund

 

[SYates]

I actually got send a printed copy, by the publisher, for review purposes. Here my thoughts:

This guide book is published by a very reputable German publisher with decades of experience in producing commercial guide books/ non-fiction travel books concerning outdoor activities including pilgrimages.
I used their guide, in German, for my first camino in 1999 and I am rather nostalgically biased towards them and they are still regarded in Germany as one of the two best publishers when it comes to Camino Guides. The other one being the red book, the Rother guides.

BUT

This is a commercial publisher, who produces guides and other travel books for commercial reasons.
This is not somebody that publishes guides (like those found here on the forum that are created by members for members for free/for a donation).
The Conrad Stein Verlag http://conrad-stein-verlag.de is a very reputable business but like any other business it will be judged by the quality of its products.

AND

It has done a disservice to publish their guide in a translation that frankly is bad/in many parts unusable.

Here just two verbatim examples of the book I received for review purposes:

"If you are hopefully about to embark your journey on our way ...”
“...of remaining on-foot kilometers ...”

My suspicion is that the translation was done in their spare time by benevolent volunteers, nothing wrong about that IF it is a document that is free/donation based, but this is a guide book that is published by a traditional publisher for yes, commercial purposes not a charity project. I am frankly more concerned about the impact this translation makes on a small traditional publisher and I wonder who approved the printing of this translation? The idea to translate this guide into English was certainly good but it was done in a way that is actually damaging the good name of the publisher by producing an inferior product.

So why on earth did the Conrad Stein Verlag didn't employ a translator and an editor that could produce a state of the art translation?

That is the question ... SY

PS If the Brierley guide would be translated into German with the same faults, I would write exactly the same thing and ask exactly the same questions ...

 

[Raimund Joos]

Hi SYates

How you already should know from our more than 1 year-old e-mail-conversation, the last decision on the choice of the translators and editor did not lie at the publishing company. This was my decision.

And here my answer to your question:

I found it very important, that the work was made by real pilgrims. My book should not lose the "smell" of the camino and so I prefared to work whith pilgrimsfinds and not with someone who dont now what the book is realy about.

And I emphasise: I am very grateful for their work.

The most pilgrims are more or les contented with the translation. Native speakers who work a lot with texts confirm this. However, something can always be improved.

Again: Everybody can read the text itself and judge.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/images/outdoor-sample.pdf

Bon Camino!

Raimund

 

[grayland]

It may be time to close this thread for awhile.
I think everyone has had a chance to voice opinions.