inner experience and it's value

[radekorion]

Hi
I'm very intrested in inner experiences of Camino, especially solitary side of the journey, and as a preparation for PhD research I wonder if there is kind of 'pattern' of transformation which can be noticed in our 'Camino' experience; and what I call 'therapeutic function' of a solitary journey.
I would love to meet/talk, share experiences with those who walked Camino and have feeling of some kind of inner transformation. If there is someone who is intrested please, don't hesistate to contact me. I would like also to ask couple of questions anonymously (if agreed) which would help to observe similarities and it's role in our growth. Then, later, it would be publically accesed and intresting (I hope) knowledge-base about how inner proces goes on when we're stepping into a pilgrim role in contemporary world.
So please, feel open if You're intrested or just want to share your summery of experiences and feel ready to answer simple but deep questions

 

[lettinggo]

Hola and welcome to the forum

Your PhD thesis sounds interesting, and I come to think of a thread from yesterday;
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...urma-japan-turkey-eire-etc.29573/#post-249623
To walk or go on a pilgrimage is as old as humankind, and there is an abundant amount of source material on the matter.
Your approach, to have conversation or ask questions to pilgrims, is a good way to see if you can find a 'pattern'.

But I think that what you should consider is, to go on a Camino yourself.
Many of the answers you may get in a conversation will not really make complete sense (my opinion) if one has not experienced it first hand.
Take this forum for an example.
Many threads I read I connect to and feel I have an answer to the issue, because I have been there myself.
'No. Don't bring three pairs of shoes (Because carrying two extra kilos in the back pack is not an easy task)'.
'Yes. Remember to take a few safety pins. (The can be used for many things and weight next to nothing).
' No. Don't make a plan for your whole Camino (Take it one day at the time, because once you are on route, there really is only the present day).
And so on.

The last question, for an example, I can imagine would be difficult for one who have not walked a Camino, to fully comprehend.
One has to have walked for a few weeks or so and then a smile will pop up on ones face when one hears this question. It is through that smile that pilgrims connect.
Because they have overcome the same, and as you are examining; found some inner peace, which then is shared.

If you opt to walk a Camino yourself, you will have plenty of possibilities to converse with pilgrims, and in Santiago you could stay a week or more, and write the draft.
A more perfect place to gather the essence of your thesis, I cannot imagine.

Lastly. Do remember that people are on a pilgrimage and may not want to participate in your project.
On my walks I have meet people who were blogging and asked for pictures and comments, which I declined.
It was not what my Camino was about.
That said, I am sure you will find plenty of friendly and sharing pilgrims.

Best of luck and
Buen Camino

Lettinggo

 

[alexwalker]

radekorion,

Lettinggo has just given solid advice for you on everything you need to do in order to create a great project!

 

[amorfati1]

Hi
I'm very intrested in inner experiences of Camino, especially solitary side of the journey, and as a preparation for PhD research I wonder if there is kind of 'pattern' of transformation which can be noticed in our 'Camino' experience; and what I call 'therapeutic function' of a solitary journey.
I would love to meet/talk, share experiences with those who walked Camino and have feeling of some kind of inner transformation. If there is someone who is intrested please, don't hesistate to contact me. I would like also to ask couple of questions anonymously (if agreed) which would help to observe similarities and it's role in our growth. Then, later, it would be publically accesed and intresting (I hope) knowledge-base about how inner proces goes on when we're stepping into a pilgrim role in contemporary world.
So please, feel open if You're intrested or just want to share your summery of experiences and feel ready to answer simple but deep questions

Good morning -
I would second many topics/issues that LettingGo has mentioned in the previous post - But mainly I have questions for you:
The PhD thesis has a marvelous topic - one that would require to plunge into very private thoughts and experiences of pilgrims - the ones who would be willing to share it with you. But, who are you? what's your major? at what university, where? what motivated you to chose this topic for a PhD? i am missing this kind of info about all that - and mainly: have you been a pilgrim? a long distance hiker?
you might find more responses to your request that way... (meaning: sharing your motivations, inspirations, etc) but i might be wrong as well.... Good Luck and cheers -

 

[Pelgrimpaul]

As I'm walking a camino at this moment, I don't have access to my digital brain.
I know of a phd project on pilgrimage and therapy, a recent book on transformational tourism by Reisinger ed., many articles on the subject from Garth Lean, etc.
But at the moment I'm planning on where to eat in the City of Ferrol on the Camino Inglés...

 

[vgen5122]

Writing PhD thesis is a marvelous topic, but in my opinion you must travel down the road to do it justice. You have to experience the Camino grabing your attention and calling (because it does).
Some people skim through the Camino by bike, and by running the pathways. At the end in Santiago, some of them may say what was so special, where my inspiration that was to transform me? It was there but they ran by it so fast to notice.
Most pilgrims don't travel many, many miles just to get achy blistered feet, or feel hunger in their bellies. There are many day to day things that you have to worry about while walking the Camino, but you keep moving forward to Santiago no matter what. There is a special humanity of kindness on the Camino-a kinship of sorts. It is in my opinion that in order to give the topic justice you must experience the Camino, savor the experience and the words will come easy.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

One other word of advice: If you want to talk to the really solitary camino walkers, find the ones who walk in winter. They are the real solitaries. They are a breed apart.

 

[Biccy]

Pls feel free to contact me, I walked el ingles last year.

I am sure the others have some sound advice but I didn't notice you asking for any ;-)

Simon.

 

[Marge]

Hi
I'm very intrested in inner experiences of Camino, especially solitary side of the journey, and as a preparation for PhD research I wonder if there is kind of 'pattern' of transformation which can be noticed in our 'Camino' experience; and what I call 'therapeutic function' of a solitary journey.
I would love to meet/talk, share experiences with those who walked Camino and have feeling of some kind of inner transformation. If there is someone who is intrested please, don't hesistate to contact me. I would like also to ask couple of questions anonymously (if agreed) which would help to observe similarities and it's role in our growth. Then, later, it would be publically accesed and intresting (I hope) knowledge-base about how inner proces goes on when we're stepping into a pilgrim role in contemporary world.
So please, feel open if You're intrested or just want to share your summery of experiences and feel ready to answer simple but deep questions

Hi
I'm very intrested in inner experiences of Camino, especially solitary side of the journey, and as a preparation for PhD research I wonder if there is kind of 'pattern' of transformation which can be noticed in our 'Camino' experience; and what I call 'therapeutic function' of a solitary journey.
I would love to meet/talk, share experiences with those who walked Camino and have feeling of some kind of inner transformation. If there is someone who is intrested please, don't hesistate to contact me. I would like also to ask couple of questions anonymously (if agreed) which would help to observe similarities and it's role in our growth. Then, later, it would be publically accesed and intresting (I hope) knowledge-base about how inner proces goes on when we're stepping into a pilgrim role in contemporary world.
So please, feel open if You're intrested or just want to share your summery of experiences and feel ready to answer simple but deep questions

Hi
I'm very intrested in inner experiences of Camino, especially solitary side of the journey, and as a preparation for PhD research I wonder if there is kind of 'pattern' of transformation which can be noticed in our 'Camino' experience; and what I call 'therapeutic function' of a solitary journey.
I would love to meet/talk, share experiences with those who walked Camino and have feeling of some kind of inner transformation. If there is someone who is intrested please, don't hesistate to contact me. I would like also to ask couple of questions anonymously (if agreed) which would help to observe similarities and it's role in our growth. Then, later, it would be publically accesed and intresting (I hope) knowledge-base about how inner proces goes on when we're stepping into a pilgrim role in contemporary world.
So please, feel open if You're intrested or just want to share your summery of experiences and feel ready to answer simple but deep questions

We finished Camilo Frances sept 2014. No prob talking to you if you want.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I would love to meet/talk, share experiences with those who walked Camino and have feeling of some kind of inner transformation.

So the research test group will be those who already have self-identified as having a feeling of some kind of inner transformation?

I predict that you will find that the Camino causes an inner transformation.

 

[Al the optimist]

Lots for you to ponder above radekorion. I like many experience an inner transformation every time and this can be a different one for us all. However there are some posts on the forum that suggest some people are disappointed with their experience. Remember that people walk for many reasons, expecting different things, and then experiencing something completely different. Perhaps your research group should be wider?

 

[MoniRose]

Contact me if you would like. Monica

 

[apilgrim]

Hi
I'm very intrested in inner experiences of Camino, especially solitary side of the journey, and as a preparation for PhD research I wonder if there is kind of 'pattern' of transformation which can be noticed in our 'Camino' experience; and what I call 'therapeutic function' of a solitary journey.
I would love to meet/talk, share experiences with those who walked Camino and have feeling of some kind of inner transformation. If there is someone who is intrested please, don't hesistate to contact me. I would like also to ask couple of questions anonymously (if agreed) which would help to observe similarities and it's role in our growth. Then, later, it would be publically accesed and intresting (I hope) knowledge-base about how inner proces goes on when we're stepping into a pilgrim role in contemporary world.
So please, feel open if You're intrested or just want to share your summery of experiences and feel ready to answer simple but deep questions

Feel free to email me: am.jansman@gmail.com. I will answer your questions. I have written a book about inner transformation on the Camino.
All best, Anita

 

[Ofelia Cristina]

Hello, I only walked 4 stages three weeks ago and the impact in my emotional life was great. I now want to do the whole 800 Kms, precisely because I wish to immerse myself in my inner reality and want to become aware of my limitations, so I would love to cooperate with your project and see if we can help each other.

I am also intrigued with your choice of doing or not doing the Camino...

Of doing it before your enquiries with us or doing it afterwards...

Please contact me as you wish.

 

[radekorion]

Thank You so much all of You for such a inspiring messages Feel kind of supported

So basically, I walked Camino in 2007 and 2008 and then later came back for couple of days. My own story inspired me to focus on the phenomena and as I was studing 'classical' psychology at that time and process oriented psychology I found everything what has happened on the Camino as a very intresting, deep and kind of 'ancient' process I begun to reflect on that as I talked to couple of people I've met on the Way, but most of the time I stayed in my 'solitary experience'. Later on, I've been reading a lot about that phenomena and tried to find all perspectives we can have on such a jounrey. And I am sure, I haven't grasped it completly, and I don't have such a expectation, more what I am sensitive about is it's integral character and how it 'dialogues' with the whole being of us. Beside my own experiences and stories I've heard I've done kind of research on the theme or corresponding theme(s) that may be helpful here. Phenomenology, especially phenomenology of religion, integrity theories, health perspective, depth-psychology, mainly Jung and what he called 'individualization process', social context, pilgrim semantics, transpersonal psychology, and most recently - philosophical, anthropological, and theological perspective, especially related with narration of inner conflicts, battles, and growth, etc. But not getting into details right now (and yet) - mainly - I am intrested in what is happening 'inside' of us rather than what's going on 'outside' (that's important as well and I wouldn't leave that field, cause it's part of it, but what I found somehow missing or marginalized about journey(s) like Camino is it's deeper focus on inner process and how it is present in our everydaylife later on. Right now after looking at theories, concepts, tendencies in our contemporary world, I would like to focus on personal (subjective) experience and it's place in context of our journey and life itself. I had a chance to talk freely with couple of pilgrims when I was on my Camino so these observations will be part of research data. I would love to talk about the experience (anonymously, so no private data is revealed into the official framework of research) with those who are willing and ready to share it, express it and challenge some questions related with potential transformative process which might be involved in this amazing phenomena (which I am part of it as well )) So thank You all of You for Your words here and in particular those who are willing to share their experiences, I will contact You a.s.a.p. to arrange such a meeting (the best is 1-1 physically of course and in real-life context, but I am considering using skype or other kind of connection-platforms.... thinking about that right now...) will write more very soon ))) Thank You!

 

[Gabe]

I called it Travel Therapy I am an introvert but walked the camino this summer with my wife. We loved the solitude (solitude together if that makes sense and I was in search of nothing short of the meaning of life. I elaborate here: http://www.globalgabetravel.com/blog/camino-de-santiago-day-21-meaning-of-life-discovered but basically my walked helped me focus on 4 things while walking in silence. These inner transformations hit me about day 21:

The Meaning(s) of Life (Inner Transformation):
1.) Love
2.) Don't try to be better than others, only try to be better than the person you were yesterday.
3.) Enjoy and appreciate the moment and who you are with in that moment.
4.) Cultivate peace. No matter what the circumstances find peace in yourself. (make your own weather)
5.) Spread good. (like those who have helped me this month)

 

[David]

Radekorion - your thesis ... I think that you have a problem as how does one translate the inner transformation into words? You will know that throughout history those who have had an inner transformation are unable to explain it in words - think of Rumi for one, think of Jesus - three years with his disciples and they still didn't understand at all what he was talking about .... it cannot be put down in words, it is experiential - so .. well, you have to leave your notepads and pens and camera at home ... take a couple of months off, travel light, travel poor, don't ask questions .. just live the days, go through the physical pains, carry on, go through the "why am I doing this", carry on .. eventually you will walk into an inner silence where you just may laugh or cry at the sound of a bird calling, or, even if you think yourself an atheist, enter a church and utterly lose yourself - and then, when you have lost yourself, then you will find yourself - and you will find that there are no questions, no answers, it just IS -
if you do not yet understand Jesus when he said "Let the dead bury the dead"
and if you do not yet understand Rumi when he said "Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.” then you do not understand the experiential and your thesis will be external rather than internal, which is ok of course! - mull over those two quotes - they are the key.

There is a pattern of course - or stages - not many enter deeply, many buy expensive clothing, eat in restaurants and make friends, text and phone home, write blogs ... nothing wrong with this of course but it isn't a deep pilgrimage .... if you want to know about true life-changing transformation then you have a problem as those who have had the transformation will not respond and those who have not (but think they have) will respond, so your stats will be flawed, skewed .... the only answer, as mentioned already on this thread, is to go yourself, experience it yourself.

My thesis was the synchronisation of the doctrines of Reincarnation and Christianity - simple really as it dealt in doctrines and logic, not inner experiences ... you may have to change your thesis - but wait until you have returned before you do that!

Buen Camino!!

 

[alexwalker]

Wisely you speak, David.

 

[Ofelia Cristina]

Thank You so much all of You for such a inspiring messages Feel kind of supported

So basically, I walked Camino in 2007 and 2008 and then later came back for couple of days. My own story inspired me to focus on the phenomena and as I was studing 'classical' psychology at that time and process oriented psychology I found everything what has happened on the Camino as a very intresting, deep and kind of 'ancient' process I begun to reflect on that as I talked to couple of people I've met on the Way, but most of the time I stayed in my 'solitary experience'. Later on, I've been reading a lot about that phenomena and tried to find all perspectives we can have on such a jounrey. And I am sure, I haven't grasped it completly, and I don't have such a expectation, more what I am sensitive about is it's integral character and how it 'dialogues' with the whole being of us. Beside my own experiences and stories I've heard I've done kind of research on the theme or corresponding theme(s) that may be helpful here. Phenomenology, especially phenomenology of religion, integrity theories, health perspective, depth-psychology, mainly Jung and what he called 'individualization process', social context, pilgrim semantics, transpersonal psychology, and most recently - philosophical, anthropological, and theological perspective, especially related with narration of inner conflicts, battles, and growth, etc. But not getting into details right now (and yet) - mainly - I am intrested in what is happening 'inside' of us rather than what's going on 'outside' (that's important as well and I wouldn't leave that field, cause it's part of it, but what I found somehow missing or marginalized about journey(s) like Camino is it's deeper focus on inner process and how it is present in our everydaylife later on. Right now after looking at theories, concepts, tendencies in our contemporary world, I would like to focus on personal (subjective) experience and it's place in context of our journey and life itself. I had a chance to talk freely with couple of pilgrims when I was on my Camino so these observations will be part of research data. I would love to talk about the experience (anonymously, so no private data is revealed into the official framework of research) with those who are willing and ready to share it, express it and challenge some questions related with potential transformative process which might be involved in this amazing phenomena (which I am part of it as well )) So thank You all of You for Your words here and in particular those who are willing to share their experiences, I will contact You a.s.a.p. to arrange such a meeting (the best is 1-1 physically of course and in real-life context, but I am considering using skype or other kind of connection-platforms.... thinking about that right now...) will write more very soon ))) Thank You!

Hello Radek:

Here are some quotes from your text which called my attention:

• The perspectives of the journey...

• (The Camino's) integral character and how it 'dialogues' with ... us.

• The narration of inner conflicts, battles, and growth, etc.

• A deeper focus on inner process (while in the Camino) and how it is present in our everyday life later on.

• The focus on personal (subjective) experience and its place in the context of our journey and of life itself.

• The potential transformative process which might be involved in this amazing phenomena ...

I wished I could 'disect' and put into words or into clear conclusions my little experience on the Camino... Even if I only had a glimpse of it and can't relate to its trasformative power, I know I loved the feeling of discovery and the sensation of freedom, to the point that I wasn't adjusting to my familiar life once I returned.

So, I celebrate your attempt to look into our Camino experiences, for which you seemed pretty well equipped!

I am also happy to know that you've walked the Camino more than a couple of times, so that you can relate to the experience from a first hand position.

Now, I can't wait to hear the questions you will formulate...

 

[lettinggo]

Radekorion - your thesis ... I think that you have a problem as how does one translate the inner transformation into words? You will know that throughout history those who have had an inner transformation are unable to explain it in words - think of Rumi for one, think of Jesus - three years with his disciples and they still didn't understand at all what he was talking about .... it cannot be put down in words, it is experiential - so .. well, you have to leave your notepads and pens and camera at home ... take a couple of months off, travel light, travel poor, don't ask questions .. just live the days, go through the physical pains, carry on, go through the "why am I doing this", carry on .. eventually you will walk into an inner silence where you just may laugh or cry at the sound of a bird calling, or, even if you think yourself an atheist, enter a church and utterly lose yourself - and then, when you have lost yourself, then you will find yourself - and you will find that there are no questions, no answers, it just IS -
if you do not yet understand Jesus when he said "Let the dead bury the dead"
and if you do not yet understand Rumi when he said "Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.” then you do not understand the experiential and your thesis will be external rather than internal, which is ok of course! - mull over those two quotes - they are the key.

There is a pattern of course - or stages - not many enter deeply, many buy expensive clothing, eat in restaurants and make friends, text and phone home, write blogs ... nothing wrong with this of course but it isn't a deep pilgrimage .... if you want to know about true life-changing transformation then you have a problem as those who have had the transformation will not respond and those who have not (but think they have) will respond, so your stats will be flawed, skewed .... the only answer, as mentioned already on this thread, is to go yourself, experience it yourself.

My thesis was the synchronisation of the doctrines of Reincarnation and Christianity - simple really as it dealt in doctrines and logic, not inner experiences ... you may have to change your thesis - but wait until you have returned before you do that!

Buen Camino!!

Indeed well spoken David.
There are much to consider and ponder on after reading your words.
The Japanese word satori is one that come into my mind.
Something just isn't possible to fully translate into letter and words, but still it is commendable to try it.
Else we would not be writing thread on this forum

 

[amorfati1]

Radekorion - your thesis ... I think that you have a problem as how does one translate the inner transformation into words? You will know that throughout history those who have had an inner transformation are unable to explain it in words - think of Rumi for one, think of Jesus - three years with his disciples and they still didn't understand at all what he was talking about .... it cannot be put down in words, it is experiential - so .. well, you have to leave your notepads and pens and camera at home ... take a couple of months off, travel light, travel poor, don't ask questions .. just live the days, go through the physical pains, carry on, go through the "why am I doing this", carry on .. eventually you will walk into an inner silence where you just may laugh or cry at the sound of a bird calling, or, even if you think yourself an atheist, enter a church and utterly lose yourself - and then, when you have lost yourself, then you will find yourself - and you will find that there are no questions, no answers, it just IS -
if you do not yet understand Jesus when he said "Let the dead bury the dead"
and if you do not yet understand Rumi when he said "Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.” then you do not understand the experiential and your thesis will be external rather than internal, which is ok of course! - mull over those two quotes - they are the key.

There is a pattern of course - or stages - not many enter deeply, many buy expensive clothing, eat in restaurants and make friends, text and phone home, write blogs ... nothing wrong with this of course but it isn't a deep pilgrimage .... if you want to know about true life-changing transformation then you have a problem as those who have had the transformation will not respond and those who have not (but think they have) will respond, so your stats will be flawed, skewed .... the only answer, as mentioned already on this thread, is to go yourself, experience it yourself.

My thesis was the synchronisation of the doctrines of Reincarnation and Christianity - simple really as it dealt in doctrines and logic, not inner experiences ... you may have to change your thesis - but wait until you have returned before you do that!

Buen Camino!!

David - BRAVO --- very well said indeed. (will copy/paste this into my apple.notes since it merits a repeat-read
Thank you for contributing this!
and reading your words, i remembered the lines of the Tao Te Ching (in a translated version of course, my old Chinese reading skill is all but forgotten
"The Tao that can be explained is not the eternal Tao
The Name that can be named is not the eternal Name".
Very best wishes -

 

[Pelgrimpaul]

Last months I searched and researched a lot and found many (to me) relevant literature/articles regarding pilgrimage/camino/experience.
Wow, indeed the more you know, the more you know how little you know.

Just some remarks...
Think of difference Erlebnis und Erfahrung, experience in English is just one word.
Think of pre (intention, perception), during (camino) and post (transition).
Think of the continuum of concepts of tourist to pilgrim.
Think perhaps post-phenomenology.
Well, just think off whatever you think of it ;-)

Regarding David's item: did you now someone wrote a report on experiencing the camino herself and made daily coloured maps with views and surroundings and measured/noticed her own physical state, her emotions, affections, etc. As you yourself perhaps (!) know best what the camino is doing.

Some other pointers perhaps of some use.
Yiping Li 2000 A phenomenological study of tourists travel experiences (thesis)
Belhassen 2008 The search for authenticity in pilgrim experience
Norman 2012 The varieties of the spiritual tourist experience
Schmidt 2005 Spiritual leisure experience (thesis)
Warfield The Therapeutic Value of Pilgrimage: A Grounded Theory Study. (thesis)
Tisdell 2012 We Make the Way by Walking: Spiritual Pilgrimage and Transformative Learning While Walking the Camino De Santiago
Bauer 2006 Narrative identity and eudaimonic wellbeing
Westerink 2013 Constructs of Meaning and Religious Transformation

buen camino!

 

[radekorion]

ThankYou PelgrimPaul so much for these sparking ideas! Thank You All for comments and advices. I've done small retreat and walk recently and had problems with loging into the forum, now it seems it's working back again.

I will answers and write down today or tomorrow about a 'stage of investigation' ))
Hope You're doing well and spirit of Camino is present each day for You ))