Ebola in Spain: It has started to spread within.

[alexwalker]

I do not want to scare anybody, but:

Yesterday a nurse was isolated with Ebola in Madrid, having gotten it while nursing a priest (who died) brought back from Africa. She is the first person who has been infected outside Africa. It is reported that all the Spanish nurses used safety suits class 2 (not dangerous), while they should have worn suits class 4 (top level, for the most dangerous diseases, like Ebola). Now 3 more persons have been infected by her, and 30 more are put under observation.

Problem is, she didn't go to the hospital when she felt the symptoms: For 3-4 days she was out on her own in Madrid after the symptoms appeared. So what now?

This is the first case where spreading of the disease does not come from Africa, but from sick people inside Europe.

Also, today we received back in Oslo, Norway, a Norw. nurse with Ebola. She is in intensive care, but now it is here in Norway too. What's more: My city, in the Arctic, has been selected as one of 4 entry points in Norway for Ebola patients, should it be needed. It is not a big town, 70.000 people. I do not feel good about this... Maybe buy a lot of canned food and go to my cottage for a couple of months?

No, better relax, but it is starting to not looking good...

 

[MendiWalker]

I do not want to scare anybody, but:

Yesterday a nurse was isolated with Ebola i Madrid, having gotten it while nursing a priest (who died) brought back from Africa. It is reported that all the Spanish nurses used safety suits class 2 (not dangerous), while they should have worn suits class 4 (top level, for the most dangerous diseases, like Ebola). Now 3 more persons have been infected by her, and 30 more are put under observation.

Problem is, she didn't go to the hospital when she felt the symptoms: For 3-4 days she was out on her own in Madrid after the symptoms appeared. So what now?

This is the first case where spreading of the disease does not come from Africa, but from sick people inside Europe.

Also, today we received back in Oslo, Norway, a Norw. nurse with Ebola. She is in intensive care, but now it is here in Norway too. What's more: My city, in the Arctic, has been selected as one of 4 entry points in Norway for Ebola patients, should it be needed. It is not a big town, 70.000 people. I do not feel good about this... Maybe buy a lot of canned food and go to my cottage for a couple of months?

No, better relax, but it is starting to not looking good...

Unfortunately you are scaring people. Some of the info you have mentioned about the case in Madrid is incorrect. Please get your data right next time.

Ondo Ibili !

 

[alexwalker]

Then I apologize. It was on the news here 15 mins ago. Maybe hysterical/"sensational" news, I hope.

 

[Tincatinker]

The current Ebola outbreak is serious and a potential global threat. One, tragic, case of transmitted infection in Madrid is not an issue of concern to pilgrims on the camino. It is perhaps a wake-up for us all. This is a very nasty virus with no respect for our 1st or 3rd world status.

Meanwhile, we can watch our national news programmes and wonder whether they make it all up around the editor's desk...

 

[Thomas1962]

Sure, I hope all measurements are taken not to spread the virus further on.
But let´s keep our feet on the ground (by walking...?). Before the day is over there will be an average of 5 people killed in traffic, this only in Spain.
Ebola sounds and might be scary, but 1600 people killed (and many many more injured) a year is more a risk on the camino and in life in general.

A man (and me too) often suffers most from the suffering he fears

 

[William Garza]

Dallas, Texas A man is dying in isolation of a strain of Ebola. sad, but there may be hope yet, a glimmer
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/07/dallas-ebola-patient-receives-experimental-drug-chimerix/

 

[Mark Lee]

Can't say that I would allow the ebola virus's existence stop me from walking the Camino.

 

[whariwharangi]

The worst natural disaster in the past 100 years was the Spanish Flu.

Tornadoes Hurricanes Earthquakes Tsunamis can't hold a candle to a Plague.

So I don't think you are being paranoid Alex.

We all need to think what might happen from a business continuity perspective particularly along the lines of continuity of government.

 

[Saint Mike II]

Alex - Hola, your post was thoughtful and well researched/presented. I spend sometime on the LP Thorn Tales forum and there is a lot of very good info there and some very much mis-informed comment.
What to do? For the most part (over 90%) of pilgrims and other tourists are not going to come anywhere near someone who has been " potentially" exposed to Ebola. It is a disease spread by contact with bodily fluids - (sneezing coughing etc; actually nursing someone who is known to be infected) - so just bumping into someone at the airport or train/bus station should be be an issue. HOWever - when travelling you should always exercise increased basic hygiene rules (washing hands after toilet; before eating) - carry one of those sanitizers is a good idea. Buen Camino

 

[sriyantra]

Before we left Australia on the 1st September a friend asked 'is it wise to travel given the state of the world ?'. If we had thought that way we would have missed out on 6 wonderful weeks- one more to go then we will go home and tell them of our wonderful camino tales!

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

reporting from madrid (where i live).

ebola is no laughing matter and apparently the incident till now has not been dealt with correctly (no desire to get into a political debate on this forum). that said, the chances of getting ebola (even for us in madrid) is fairly slim if you consider that in all of western africa there have been around 3500 deaths and around 8000 infected in a population of around 20.000.000. now consider the dramatic differences in health, hygiene and care between western africa and spain.

hopefully, the ebola debate, now that it's a reality for europeans and spaniards, will now focus on the much needed aid for these african countries. that said, for those really concerned, start counting 21 days as from yesterday as that is the maximum incubation period.

 

[mikevasey]

If you go onto wiki and read the entry for this Ebola outbreak, it claims(and there is issues) that all reported cases and deaths are possibly 2.5 times under the actual figures, this was coming from various outlets. One of the problems is that at the moment there is inadequate medical facilities and people devolping possible symptoms are more likely to do nothing than put themself in an overpopulated ward with people who do have it. I have been watching this for a couple of months, when it started in Nigeria they approached it with correct procedures and facilities and as of today have stopped it in its tracks and if no further cases appear will be declared free of it on the 20th October. One of the articles I read recently made the claim while it is not airborne it can be transmitted by sneezing and coughing like an aerosol style contaminant, this was from an American military medical centre which had an outbreak amongst it rehus monkeys in the late 90's.
It is possible from the reports that I have read that the Spanish authorities may have got it wrong in its quarantine procedures.

 

[mikevasey]

Oops sorry for duplicating you Jeffrey, I was typing away while you were posting.

 

[Kanga]

I could be worried that I will be run over by a car on the way to the airport. I could be worried that we will fly into the plumes from a volcano in Indonesia and the engine shut down over the ocean. I could be worried about being shot out of the sky on the way to the Camino. I could be worried that our house will be destroyed in a bushfire while we are away. I could be worried that our superannuation fund will collapse and we will be left penniless. I could be worried about packs of ebola infected dogs projectile vomiting into and contaminating the Spanish water supply.
Naaaagh, it's not worth the effort. Nothing I can do about any of that stuff, may as well relax and hope St James will intercede on my behalf.

 

[TerryB]

reporting from madrid (where i live).

ebola is no laughing matter and apparently the incident till now has not been dealt with correctly (no desire to get into a political debate on this forum). that said, the chances of getting ebola (even for us in madrid) is fairly slim if you consider that in all of western africa there have been around 3500 deaths and around 8000 infected in a population of around 20.000.000. now consider the dramatic differences in health, hygiene and care between western africa and spain.
hopefully, the ebola debate, now that it's a reality for europeans and spaniards, will now focus on the much needed aid for these african countries. that said, for those really concerned, start counting 21 days as from yesterday as that is the maximum incubation period.

Thank you Jeffrey, it would seem that there has been some lapse in bio-security. I understand from the Spanish press that the nursing assistant thought she had rubbed her face with her gloves when taking off the protective suit.
Keep things in perspective though! The World Health Organization estimates that in 2012, there were 207 million cases of malaria. That year, the disease is estimated to have killed between 473,000 and 789,000 people, many of whom were children in Africa. The same source says that there are about 10,000 malaria cases per year in Western Europe, and 1300–1500 in the United States. About 900 people died from the disease in Europe between 1993 and 2003.
This too shall pass!

Blessings
Tio Tel

 

[mikevasey]

Its the unknown factors that are attracting so much attention, depending on how this goes it could be in a couple of years just like Maleria or West Nile Virus, where very little attention is given to it in the mainstream press for the reason that it is not pressing peoples horror buttons anymore because it is not likely to impact or their viewers or readers life's.

 

[alexwalker]

I did not mean to scare anyone by starting this thread, but the fact, as we have seen, is that this is a disease that can easily spread all over the world by infected people going on intl. flights in hours. And it is clearly more easy to be smitten that what is being told.. It is a completely different beast than malaria, traffic accidents, etc.

That said, of course there is no problem walking any of the Caminos, or living in Madrid, nor is it a problem that we in Norway (or in USA) now have patients with the disease. But it can soon be really epidemic in Africa, because it is out of control at the moment according to experts, and with intl. travels, it may soon pop up anyhere.

But I have a suspicion also that this Ebola stuff is a godsent for the media and their sales...

Update: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/08/health/ebola-us/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

This is not entirely correct: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/02/travel/ebola-risk-travelers/index.html

A cough can send viruses 20 m (60 foot) away, and if you inhale you could be in trouble. If it is so difficult to be infected, why the hysteria of masks and suits? I suspect governments are performing panic control...?

 

[Olivares]

The man in Dallas passed away this morning. Sad, so sad. I sadly think that the nurse and those infected in Spain will probably sucumb to it as well. Let's pray they do not, but it does not looks good at all....

 

[t2andreo]

Dallas, Texas A man is dying in isolation of a strain of Ebola. sad, but there may be hope yet, a glimmer
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/07/dallas-ebola-patient-receives-experimental-drug-chimerix/

The news here in the US just reported that Mr. Duncan has succumbed to his Ebola infection. R.I.P.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Thank you Jeffrey, it would seem that there has been some lapse in bio-security. I understand from the Spanish press that the nursing assistant thought she had rubbed her face with her gloves when taking off the protective suit.
Keep things in perspective though! The World Health Organization estimates that in 2012, there were 207 million cases of malaria. That year, the disease is estimated to have killed between 473,000 and 789,000 people, many of whom were children in Africa. The same source says that there are about 10,000 malaria cases per year in Western Europe, and 1300–1500 in the United States. About 900 people died from the disease in Europe between 1993 and 2003.
This too shall pass!

Blessings
Tio Tel

true, and for the sake of discussion, no one anywhere should die of malaria (treatment for almost all strains is almost 100% effective and very affordable, at least for westerners. the fact that many africans cannot afford malaria treatment should be cause of embarrassment for all of us).

that said, the probability of getting infected in spain is extremely low, much more likely to get hit by some sort of food poisoning or salmonella.

 

[alexwalker]

No

..and you seem to be falling right in their traps, aren't you?

No.

I live in a city defined as one of 4 entry points in Norway for such patients, and am concerned.

 

[MichaelSG]

People worry about the darnedest things.

 

[t2andreo]

I would suggest that no one change their Camino plans on account of the few, sporadic, widely separated and largely anecdotal reports of Ebola or Marburg virus outbreaks in Europe. But, I would advise purchasing medical trip insurance, as a just-in-case measure. I did this last year. It was well worth the added expense. I got mine through the airline as an add-on to my ticket.

The situation surrounding the Madrid Ebola issue is well understood. The authorities there, as in the US will learn from their mistakes surrounding the first case or two, and will take necessary action to protect their populace.

The saddest aspect to the Madrid case is that the local authorities apparently got a court order to euthanize the unfortunate woman's pet dog, just-in-case the dog contracted the virus. No proof was sought, although blood tests are available. They just decided to put the poor animal to sleep.

In other countries, such as Norway, France, the UK, etc., the issue surrounds the repatriation of one or more citizens who contracted the disease while serving as a health care or relief worker in one of the affected areas. Each of these situations is VERY tightly controlled. True, the authorities in Spain may have made several errors concerning protecting their workers and overall safety protocols. However, I am confident they will correct their procedures and move forward.

Given all the known facts about how one can contract this nasty virus and from who, I suggest that being on Camino is likely one of the safest places you can be at present. Just take extra care for personal sanitation, wash your hands as often as you can and keep your hands away from your face, eyes, and mouth and you should be okay.

Just avoid "icky" stuff from others... and be aware of tables, counters, bathroom fixtures, etc. The virus needs an open wound or a mucus membrane as a pathway to infect you.

Yes, it is that easy to avoid infection, at least until and unless the virus happens to mutate to spread through other means. But ALL discussion of THAT is just speculative at present (08 October).

Just as an FYI, on both my past Caminos (2013 and 2014) my personal medical kit included one paper / cloth surgical face mask and two pairs of disposable nitrile gloves. These items were kept in a separate lightweight sandwich sized ziplock bag until needed. They can be purchased at most any drug store / pharmacy or online.

Also, and just as an aside, I always carry a small supply of powdered rehydration salts in individual servings that can be mixed with safe water in the event of any gastrointestinal disease. I have given these to others along the way during both my Caminos. I bought mine on the baby care product aisle in my local supermarket. There are also adult rehydration salts sold in individual serving packets.

Believe it or not, the nitrile gloves were used to care for other person's wounds on both Caminos. The mask is more of a just-in-case, especially when flying home. Heck, it is easier to catch the flu or any respiratory disease than any of these nasties...

The bottom line is that there is no need for alarm, fear, or even serious concern...yet. Until and unless we have sudden outbreak among the general population, involving more than one person confirmed as having the virus, I would not do anything but try to remain informed.

This said, my advice, based on two Caminos experience, and out of an abundance of caution, is to revisit what you pack in your personal medical kit. Other than that, just relax and enjoy your pilgrimage.

I hope this helps someone...

 

[sag10]

I would suggest that no one change their Camino plans on account of the few, sporadic, widely separated and largely anecdotal reports of Ebola or Marburg virus outbreaks in Europe. But, I would advise purchasing medical trip insurance, as a just-in-case measure. I did this last year. It was well worth the added expense. I got mine through the airline as an add-on to my ticket.

The situation surrounding the Madrid Ebola issue is well understood. The authorities there, as in the US will learn from their mistakes surrounding the first case or two, and will take necessary action to protect their populace.

The saddest aspect to the Madrid case is that the local authorities apparently got a court order to euthanize the unfortunate woman's pet dog, just-in-case the dog contracted the virus. No proof was sought, although blood tests are available. They just decided to put the poor animal to sleep.

In other countries, such as Norway, France, the UK, etc., the issue surrounds the repatriation of one or more citizens who contracted the disease while serving as a health care or relief worker in one of the affected areas. Each of these situations is VERY tightly controlled. True, the authorities in Spain may have made several errors concerning protecting their workers and overall safety protocols. However, I am confident they will correct their procedures and move forward.

Given all the known facts about how one can contract this nasty virus and from who, I suggest that being on Camino is likely one of the safest places you can be at present. Just take extra care for personal sanitation, wash your hands as often as you can and keep your hands away from your face, eyes, and mouth and you should be okay.

Just avoid "icky" stuff from others... and be aware of tables, counters, bathroom fixtures, etc. The virus needs an open wound or a mucus membrane as a pathway to infect you.

Yes, it is that easy to avoid infection, at least until and unless the virus happens to mutate to spread through other means. But ALL discussion of THAT is just speculative at present (08 October).

Just as an FYI, on both my past Caminos (2013 and 2014) my personal medical kit included one paper / cloth surgical face mask and two pairs of disposable nitrile gloves. These items were kept in a separate lightweight sandwich sized ziplock bag until needed. They can be purchased at most any drug store / pharmacy or online.

Also, and just as an aside, I always carry a small supply of powdered rehydration salts in individual servings that can be mixed with safe water in the event of any gastrointestinal disease. I have given these to others along the way during both my Caminos. I bought mine on the baby care product aisle in my local supermarket. There are also adult rehydration salts sold in individual serving packets.

Believe it or not, the nitrile gloves were used to care for other person's wounds on both Caminos. The mask is more of a just-in-case, especially when flying home. Heck, it is easier to catch the flu or any respiratory disease than any of these nasties...

The bottom line is that there is no need for alarm, fear, or even serious concern...yet. Until and unless we have sudden outbreak among the general population, involving more than one person confirmed as having the virus, I would not do anything but try to remain informed.

This said, my advice, based on two Caminos experience, and out of an abundance of caution, is to revisit what you pack in your personal medical kit. Other than that, just relax and enjoy your pilgrimage.

I hope this helps someone...

Although the information is underway, it seems that the nurse could have commited a little carelessness when she took her special dress off, after having taken care of a sick man coming from Africa.

There is no reason to worry pilgrims, even if we must be concerned for health problems of our neigbour around the World.

 

[Olivares]

The nurse in Spain briefly touched her face with one of her gloved hands while unzipping the suit. That's one nasty virus!!

 

[Geo]

I did not mean to scare anyone by starting this thread, but the fact, as we have seen, is that this is a disease that can easily spread all over the world by infected people going on intl. flights in hours. And it is clearly more easy to be smitten that what is being told.. It is a completely different beast than malaria, traffic accidents, etc.

That said, of course there is no problem walking any of the Caminos, or living in Madrid, nor is it a problem that we in Norway (or in USA) now have patients with the disease. But it can soon be really epidemic in Africa, because it is out of control at the moment according to experts, and with intl. travels, it may soon pop up anyhere.

But I have a suspicion also that this Ebola stuff is a godsent for the media and their sales...

Update: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/08/health/ebola-us/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

This is not entirely correct: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/02/travel/ebola-risk-travelers/index.html

A cough can send viruses 20 m (60 foot) away, and if you inhale you could be in trouble. If it is so difficult to be infected, why the hysteria of masks and suits? I suspect governments are performing panic control...?

This WILL be a terrible awful situation soon. I'm not going to live in a bubble but I honestly don't think we as a world are containing this at all and its a mistake. The suffering of the rampant virus is horrific. It's not 'drinking the koolaid'
I think there's a sadness of what's to come. The stats about odds getting hit by a bus does put things into perspective so we don't need to run to our bunkers quite yet but this virus spreads possibly by the cough/sneeze/sweat factor and hello we sit in tiny capsules on the sky, train and boats criss-crossing the world. I think it's truly something to be mindful about and if our leaders/governments don't discus it proactively, we are all in for a mass horror story.
It's the truth.
Carelessness of cleanup, carelessness of sanitization around carriers and their families..and anyone they've contacted...it's truly a ripple effect I don't think we've grasped yet.
The man died in Texas. You all pro ly know that ny now but the ambulance driver had a contaminated vehicle for 3 days after that patient was brought to the ER. How many Emergency calls and people were in that vehicle? Lots of questions. How in the hell did the nurse get it? No gloves?
What about the camera guy from the US? How the hell did he get it?
These things...it would be nice if it were the highest priority to figure out.
I'm afraid a bit but not hiding under the blankets. In fact I'm sitting in the Denver airport getting ready to board to get there...to The Camino. To SJPP. I start my adventure Saturday. : )
It's a good and valid topic. Here's to no stomach flu, bed bugs or ebola. : (
Geo

 

[grayland]

There is probably not much useful information to add here.
Speculation is not actually helpful on this subject.

The thread is closed for now.