E-bike users now excluded from receiving a Compostela

[Kathor1]

Are you sure?

Yes, I am sure.

 

[JustOneGuy]

I understand, but do you have a reference showing that "This logo is a private sector / non-profit sector logo" and not something else?

 

[Former member 118323]

Do we even know whether the EuroVelo3 trail, to the extent that it overlaps with the Camino de Santiago trails, got EFDR funding or similar EU funding? EuroVelo is a European cycle route network that has been initiated by the European Cyclists' Federation. Just because the EFDR logo is on the Federation's website doesn't mean that funds were made available to them in northern Spain. I checked and saw that they gave some money to the development of northern sections of EuroVelo 13 – Iron Curtain Trail - it goes through AT, CZ, DE, EE, FI, LT, LV, PL but not ES (Spain).

In forum threads, posters present all sorts of arguments or own ideas why one group or the other group should not walk or bike where another group is walking or biking for that matter. Comments find approval from other posters or are refuted.

There is no decision-making power here on the forum: Spanish traffic law and additional regional or local regulations decide who is allowed to use roads of any kind and other ways and paths of any kind in Spain and who is prohibited from use.

As far as I can tell, there is not even much lobbying with Spanish townhalls or provincial authorities emanating from our forum threads.

I live next to the EV3 trail in France … I’ll have a look to see what is declared. I can’t imagine Spain would have less funding than France.

 

[Kathor1]

I understand, but do you have a reference showing that "This logo is a private sector / non-profit sector logo" and not something else?

You'll have to take my word for it.

BTW, I am aware of the obligation of beneficiaries to display the EU emblem for projects funded under the EFDR and similar. See for example "The Use of the EU Emblem in the context of EU Programmes 2021-2027 - Operational guidelines for recipients of EU funding" and all the guidelines before them.

Out of curiosity and for personal entertainment I occasionally looked for it and may have even take one or two photos when I walked the Camino Francés several years ago. I know that the majority of forum members is not aware of these programmes for the various regions in the EU - and for Galicia in particular.

 

[Kathor1]

So these European Cycling Federation guys have developed EuroVelo 3 and baptised it Pilgrims Road. I had a closer look at their section from Pamplona to Puente la Reina. A bone of much contention on the forum is the Alto del Perdon. I do know that cyclists go up there and they go down there - in both directions.The Camino is very narrow in this area and this can create conflict between bikers and walkers and even dangerous situations.

However, looking at their website, this is not what EV 3 proposes. Their EV 3 trail (yellow) branches away from the Camino Francés, long before Zariquiegui, and joins it again near Obanos - i.e. these pilgrim bikers and other riders stay on wide farm roads and other rural roads, and they don't cross the Sierra where the foot pilgrims cross.

FWIW. And for those less familiar because they can't remember or have not walked yet: the contemporary Camino Francés goes in a more or less straight line from Zariquiegui to Uterga, then Muruzábal, Obanos and Puente la Reina.

 

[Former member 118323]

So these European Cycling Federation guys have developed EuroVelo 3 and baptised it Pilgrims Road. I had a closer look at their section from Pamplona to Puente la Reina. A bone of much contention on the forum is the Alto del Perdon. I do know that cyclists go up there and they go down there - in both directions.The Camino is very narrow in this area and this can create conflict between bikers and walkers and even dangerous situations.

However, looking at their website, this is not what EV 3 proposes. Their EV 3 trail (yellow) branches away from the Camino Francés, long before Zariquiegui, and joins it again near Obanos - i.e. these pilgrim bikers and other riders stay on wide farm roads and other rural roads, and they don't cross the Sierra where the foot pilgrims cross.

FWIW. And for those less familiar because they can't remember or have not walked yet: the contemporary Camino Francés goes in a more or less straight line from Zariquiegui to Uterga, then Muruzábal, Obanos and Puente la Reina.

View attachment 177084

EV3 for me, as long as it is close enough to the Camino Frances to be accepted as such. Hopefully I have illustrated that I do not want to inhibit individuals on the Camino; although I am bemused that the loudest advocates of the caminos being busier than before … are those that have many more caminos on their belt than pilgrims 20, 50 or a 100 years ago. Inward reflection would illuminate the true reason for the congestion; will it change …no, not when some consider it a holiday, business or hobby.

Just swapped out my e-Trike’s tyres & inner tubes for new … might help reduce my punctures. Although, I have only had one, whilst touring the Dordogne … and only because I crossed the white line to the right so van and truck drivers could get by; lesson learnt … I help others when I can but not to my detriment.

 

[Kathor1]

I can get quite curious, and since I think that everything has been said about all there is to say about the fact that "e-bike users are excluded from receiving a Compostela" and since the European Cultural Routes project - among them the Camino de Santiago - wants to encourage intercultural dialogue, mutual exchange and enrichment across boundaries and centuries and also aims to encourage European citizens to re-explore their heritage by practising cultural tourism across the whole European continent and beyond, here is some info with which I enriched my knowledge today. I am now going to engage in some intercultural dialogue and continue our mutual exchange.

Get ready, it is a far cry from the Camino Pilgrim's world ...

EuroVelo 3, named "The Pilgrims Route", 5.650 km running from Trondheim in Norway to Santiago de Compostela in Spain, did get some EU funding.

As described on their website, the EV3 project received a budget of € 363,520 over the course of 18 months. They received it from an Executive Agency for Small and Medium-sized Enterprises in the context of the EU's COSME 2014-2020 programme which had a budget of € 2.3 billion. The cycling association ECF - the makers of, or at least involved in the making of, EuroVelo routes - was one of eight beneficiaries in six different EU countries. Two of these eight recipients were in Spain, namely:

• Rutas Pangea (SME)
• Galicia Region

SME stands for Small and Medium Enterprise. I don't know who Rutas Pangea is. Galicia Region is the regional government of Galicia.

COSME stands for Competitiveness of Enterprises and Small and Medium-sized Enterprises, and the ECF has duly and correctly used the EU emblem in combination with their own logo, exactly as required by the very detailed guidelines mentioned earlier, namely correctly dimensioned EU flag symbol, followed by text about funding exactly as stipulated, followed by their own logo. It looks like this:

Source: https://pro.eurovelo.com/projects/2019-09-10_cosme-eurovelo

 

[Kathor1]

I could have googled it, of course: Rutas Pangea is a (probably small or medium sized) enterprise in Madrid that is especializada en viajes en bicicleta por España y Europa.

 

[Barbara]

Ho hum. I've pretty much wrecked my knees and ankles over the years, to the point that walking is difficult and painful. I can ride a bike but I use a trike so that I don't have to put a foot down when I stop. Pushing a trike uphill is a significant problem, as I don't want to trash my back as well, and anyway walking really hurts. So I use electric assistance. So far I haven't been refused entrance to a pilgrim lodging but it looks as if the Compostela is now out of bounds. For me, not a problem, but the intention on this particular pilgrimage was to do a "vicari pro" for my deceased husband. I don't have a disabled persons paperwork. What do those of you who dislike ebikes propose that I do?

 

[Former member 118323]

Ho hum. I've pretty much wrecked my knees and ankles over the years, to the point that walking is difficult and painful. I can ride a bike but I use a trike so that I don't have to put a foot down when I stop. Pushing a trike uphill is a significant problem, as I don't want to trash my back as well, and anyway walking really hurts. So I use electric assistance. So far I haven't been refused entrance to a pilgrim lodging but it looks as if the Compostela is now out of bounds. For me, not a problem, but the intention on this particular pilgrimage was to do a "vicari pro" for my deceased husband. I don't have a disabled persons paperwork. What do those of you who dislike ebikes propose that I do?

Hi,
What you’re doing is wonderful, just listen to those that are helpful (and there are many caring people on this site) and dismiss those that are trophy collectors (normally the ones most vociferous about bikes/eBikes never mind e-Trikes cluttering a congested camino … then you look at their bio and they have completed multiple runs of the same camino, so who’s congesting what again ).
I’m starting off from Dax on my e-Trike on 18 Sep for 2 weeks, then back in October for three weeks. I am 80% disabled (have the CMI to prove it), as you know restricted drugs have 28 day cycle in France … so I am juggling hospital appointments etc (an example would be an IRM on 17 Sep that truncated a week off September’s bimble) with completing the Camino Frances.
How are you transporting your trike back? Or are you cycling both ways like I am (I actually will park up our camping car and then do 3-5 days out and back East, then 3-5 days out and back West using SJDPD, Burgos & León as bases). I was up for just doing the 2500km roundtrip but not sure how much hassle I’ll have getting morphine, pregabalin, catheters etc from the Spanish health service (I believe that I can pay for it but the recovery could be interesting).
My camino is partly because I did not complete it on a normal cycle in 2014 (Spinal tumour flared up so required excising shortly after making Dax) and my uncle, who I loved dearly, died last year and his passing has galvanised me.

 

[Flog]

I don't have a disabled persons paperwork. What do those of you who dislike ebikes propose that I do?

I won't answer as a person who dislikes ebikes.

But as a Pilgrims Office volunteer, I would suggest you present yourself and just explain your circumstances and you'll be treated with respect and dignity. We can say it's only a piece of paper etc, but a dedicated compostela is all the more special.

 

[Former member 118323]

Ho hum. I've pretty much wrecked my knees and ankles over the years, to the point that walking is difficult and painful. I can ride a bike but I use a trike so that I don't have to put a foot down when I stop. Pushing a trike uphill is a significant problem, as I don't want to trash my back as well, and anyway walking really hurts. So I use electric assistance. So far I haven't been refused entrance to a pilgrim lodging but it looks as if the Compostela is now out of bounds. For me, not a problem, but the intention on this particular pilgrimage was to do a "vicari pro" for my deceased husband. I don't have a disabled persons paperwork. What do those of you who dislike ebikes propose that I do?

Have you looked at the EV3 route across Spain? I do not intend to take my trike on shared trails narrower than 2m, so that I don’t inconvenience other users of the shared trail; I’ll use the EV3 if it is close-by otherwise I’ll use the quieter roads (it helps that the motorway has taken a lot of the traffic). I only know about the EV3 because it passes close to us in France, and our cycle route joins it.

 

[henrythedog]

Ho hum. I've pretty much wrecked my knees and ankles over the years, to the point that walking is difficult and painful. I can ride a bike but I use a trike so that I don't have to put a foot down when I stop. Pushing a trike uphill is a significant problem, as I don't want to trash my back as well, and anyway walking really hurts. So I use electric assistance. So far I haven't been refused entrance to a pilgrim lodging but it looks as if the Compostela is now out of bounds. For me, not a problem, but the intention on this particular pilgrimage was to do a "vicari pro" for my deceased husband. I don't have a disabled persons paperwork. What do those of you who dislike ebikes propose that I do?

Personally, if I wanted a Compostela in your circumstances, I’d just turn up, park round the corner and tick the box marked ‘bicycle’. In the unlikely event that St Peter is checking the paperwork, I’m sure he would understand.

It’ll be hard enough finding someone who knows what ‘vicarie pro’ is, there’s no need to add more to worry about.

 

[Barbara]

Hi,
What you’re doing is wonderful, just listen to those that are helpful (and there are many caring people on this site) and dismiss those that are trophy collectors (normally the ones most vociferous about bikes/eBikes never mind e-Trikes cluttering a congested camino … then you look at their bio and they have completed multiple runs of the same camino, so who’s congesting what again ).
I’m starting off from Dax on my e-Trike on 18 Sep for 2 weeks, then back in October for three weeks. I am 80% disabled (have the CMI to prove it), as you know restricted drugs have 28 day cycle in France … so I am juggling hospital appointments etc (an example would be an IRM on 17 Sep that truncated a week off September’s bimble) with completing the Camino Frances.
How are you transporting your trike back? Or are you cycling both ways like I am (I actually will park up our camping car and then do 3-5 days out and back East, then 3-5 days out and back West using SJDPD, Burgos & León as bases). I was up for just doing the 2500km roundtrip but not sure how much hassle I’ll have getting morphine, pregabalin, catheters etc from the Spanish health service (I believe that I can pay for it but the recovery could be interesting).
My camino is partly because I did not complete it on a normal cycle in 2014 (Spinal tumour flared up so required excising shortly after making Dax) and my uncle, who I loved dearly, died last year and his passing has galvanised me.

Hi, thank you for your reply. As you know, transporting a trike isn't easy. I need a dog sitter when I go away as well. So I am doing my Camino in three week segments. Drive to wherever I got to last time, park the van, (small white anonymous Kangoo) preferably on a camp site, unfold the trike and do a circular loop with the outbound leg heading towards Santiago then back to the van after about ten days.

Mostly I camp, sometimes there is some sort of pilgrim accommodation. I started in the UK, my stepson took the trike to the start point, which was my husband's favourite gliding club on the Long Mynd in Shropshire. So I could do that as far as home (near to Poitiers) without needing to backtrack. I got to Saintes from home last autumn but my three weeks this summer was a bit of a disaster with the trike battery dying and Shimano taking a long time to get a new one to me at the bike shop. Then the van decided to throw a major wobbly which meant two weeks with neither bike or van. Still, I had a relaxing time on a camp site with a swimming pool but it didn't get me any closer to Spain. I'm actually leaving from home next Sunday rather than Saintes and will be using the EV3 for some of the loop. I can't take the van because my dog sitter needs transport. So that's a duplicate section in part, but using a different Camino route.
I'm juggling hospital appointments too, one every three weeks which goes on to the end of November, but they are very good about fitting in by moving them around as much as possible.
About the 28 days of medication and supplies, this can be flexible. If you ask your doctor they can add on the prescription that you need a longer supply due to travel. I know that doesn't help if they take up a lot of room but it's great if it's just pills . I think for the controlled drugs you might need to do a refill on a separate prescription but it's worth asking.


I have done what you are doing with short out and back trips when my husband was still with me, using a camper van and moving every two days, so he could have a holiday as well. I was researching a rather obscure Camino route in 2020 and 2021 and did write a guide to it that I don't think anyone has actually looked at. That worked nicely as long as we went to sites where there was a cafe for his lunch.
Where do you live? Would be nice to meet one day and talk Camino trikes.

 

[Former member 118323]

Hi, thank you for your reply. As you know, transporting a trike isn't easy. I need a dog sitter when I go away as well. So I am doing my Camino in three week segments. Drive to wherever I got to last time, park the van, (small white anonymous Kangoo) preferably on a camp site, unfold the trike and do a circular loop with the outbound leg heading towards Santiago then back to the van after about ten days.

Mostly I camp, sometimes there is some sort of pilgrim accommodation. I started in the UK, my stepson took the trike to the start point, which was my husband's favourite gliding club on the Long Mynd in Shropshire. So I could do that as far as home (near to Poitiers) without needing to backtrack. I got to Saintes from home last autumn but my three weeks this summer was a bit of a disaster with the trike battery dying and Shimano taking a long time to get a new one to me at the bike shop. Then the van decided to throw a major wobbly which meant two weeks with neither bike or van. Still, I had a relaxing time on a camp site with a swimming pool but it didn't get me any closer to Spain. I'm actually leaving from home next Sunday rather than Saintes and will be using the EV3 for some of the loop. I can't take the van because my dog sitter needs transport. So that's a duplicate section in part, but using a different Camino route.
I'm juggling hospital appointments too, one every three weeks which goes on to the end of November, but they are very good about fitting in by moving them around as much as possible.
About the 28 days of medication and supplies, this can be flexible. If you ask your doctor they can add on the prescription that you need a longer supply due to travel. I know that doesn't help if they take up a lot of room but it's great if it's just pills . I think for the controlled drugs you might need to do a refill on a separate prescription but it's worth asking.


I have done what you are doing with short out and back trips when my husband was still with me, using a camper van and moving every two days, so he could have a holiday as well. I was researching a rather obscure Camino route in 2020 and 2021 and did write a guide to it that I don't think anyone has actually looked at. That worked nicely as long as we went to sites where there was a cafe for his lunch.
Where do you live? Would be nice to meet one day and talk Camino trikes.

Hi Barbara,
Sounds like you have this camino side licked Both our sons went to Poitiers Uni, No 2 is finishing his 3rd year in computer engineering (and considering another 2) … No1 fled back to the (pub)life in the UK , No2 prefers the French lifestyle (but then he was born here). We aren’t far, an hour south of Poitiers near Chef-Boutonne, which is just as well since my wife picks No2 up every weekend. I’m up to my eye-balls with prep for both runs, September almost running into October … saw my doctor 2 days ago (very lucky to have him, he is excellent and supports my push to reduce dosage when sensible), I mentioned what I am doing … I’ll nudge him a touch more in early October because it would be grand to do the majority in one go. I’ll PM you with my details, SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) suggested we meet halfway on our trikes but I’m not sure I can hack that if you are not South of Poitiers , so we can sort something out.
kind regards,
Vern
Afterburner: We have 2 rescue dogs, Bobby a disabled German Pointer, aged 10 and Poppet aged 6, a cross-eyed Bretagne Spaniel. We have 2 trailers that we drag behind us on our ACSI campsite holidays in France (mostly); I have the privilege of pulling Bobby (weight 36kg) whereas Poppet is a more ladylike 16kg. They are our 8th & 9th rescue dogs garnered from the UK & SPA in France.

 

[t2andreo]

The credencial says:
"Peregrinacion en silla de ruedas: por tratarse de un caso excepcional, contactar con el Centro Internacional de Acogida al Peregrino"

Basically, because it's an "excepcional case" they need to contact the Pilgrim's Office.

In my understanding, a wheeled device, like a wheelchair or push scooter, would be acceptable. But, a motorized wheelchair or e-scooter would NOT be acceptable.

The support folks pushing a wheelchair are doing the walking. The person in the wheelchair is contributing as best they can.

I consider the e-bike thing settled "law." If a bicycle has a motor of ANY KIND - whether used or not - it is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

This still leaves the issue of verifying this fact once one arrives. I suppose we will rely on the integrity of arriving pilgrims.

For me, it clarifies matters. In future, if I decide to do a bicycle Camino, I would rent a standard mountain or hybrid bike and use my legs to pedal, as is expected to move forward. I would not waste money or effort using an e-bike, at least if I planned to seek a Compostela on arrival.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[Flog]

I consider the e-bike thing settled "law." If a bicycle has a motor of ANY KIND - whether used or not - it is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

This still leaves the issue of verifying this fact once one arrives. I suppose we will rely on the integrity of arriving pilgrims.

PLENTY arrive on e-bikes and lie about it, all the time. Mostly they seem to be middle aged men. There seems neither the will nor the resources to prevent these guys from fooling themselves.
Let them..