Permethrin

[Mikey - camino]

Is Permethrin available in SJPDP. Not available where i live in Canada and i would like to treat my sleeping bag and liner.

Mike

 

[CarolamS]

Have you checked Ebay in Canada? That's how I bought some in the UK.

 

[trecile]

Where in SJPDP would you be using the permethrin? You need to apply it outdoors away from other people and animals and not bring the treated items in until they are dry.

 

[woody66]

Hi All !
I have a related question i brought a bug killer here in the UK (Rentokil brand )with Permethrin in it!
Does the Permethrin have to be pure Permethrin or is it OK just in a bug spray!
Never used it before
Thanks
Woody

 

[davebugg]

Is Permethrin available in SJPDP. Not available where i live in Canada and i would like to treat my sleeping bag and liner.

Mike

Are you planning the application to act as a repellent or as an insecticide?

If you are hoping for a repellent action where bed bugs will not bite, then Permethrin applications to bedding will not be the ticket. They might die, but only AFTER they have had plenty of time to bite and feed first. If the bed bug happens to be among the rapidly increasing percentage of those that are now resistant to Permethrin, it will not kill them either.

 

[davebugg]

Hi All !
I have a related question i brought a bug killer here in the UK (Rentokil brand )with Permethrin in it!
Does the Permethrin have to be pure Permethrin or is it OK just in a bug spray!
Never used it before
Thanks
Woody

For use as an insecticide, Permethrin is best to be used as a straight ingredient. However, IF the other ingredients are proven to be effectively insecticidal to bed bugs, then it should be ok.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Try farm stores.
Try veterinary supply stores.
Try ebay.

 

[caminocanuck]

My wife and I have always used permethrin on our sleeping bags and silk liner. We have yet to be bit by bedbugs...so who knows? We maybe just lucky. I would hang them up along my garage door...spray them (ONLY ON THE OUTSIDE) and leave them to dry. Use gloves and wherever you do it keep the area well ventilated; hopefully on a windless sunny day. Permethrin, I believe, is still illegal to sell it Canada...although it is legal for our military to use it... Anyway, I once read (Fishing Chatroom) that it can be bought in Canada but you have to be a bit clever about it. Go to a Peavy Mart farm store and go to the Horse products section. They sell permethrin to use with horses...for what I do not to know. I bought a spray bottle from an outdoor store in Michigan (legal I the USA) when My wife and I were there years ago.

 

[davebugg]

T

My wife and I have always used permethrin on our sleeping bags and silk liner. We have yet to be bit by bedbugs...so who knows?

The entomologists and public health agencies who have long studied this issue. The adage "Correlation does not equal Causation" comes into play.

 

[davebugg]

This is a guideline I put together in a past thread, but I felt that it may be of help here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Below is listed current science-based information as of 05/31/2022. Sources are from various public health, medical, and entomological sources. Keep in mind that this is not an exhaustive text, but directed toward Camino travel. Providing counsel to people and providers dealing with such issues, as well as headlice and other assorted crawlies and parasites, was one of my jobs before retiring from Chelan-Douglas Public Health District.

My coworkers thought it amusing that Dave Bugg was the staff who dealt with bugs.

Insecticides are chemicals which kill insects. Not all consumer-grade insecticides will kill bedbugs, and those that do, (typically a pyrethroid or a synthetic variant), have produced bedbug strains that are now fully resistant in many areas of the world.

There are also categories of insecticides which can act like a repellant for some insects like mosquitoes and ticks, but they will not repel bedbugs. The most commonly cited is Permethrin.

As a pyrethroid, Permethrin can kill non-resistant bedbugs. However, if you are spraying sheets or sleeping bags thinking it will keep non-resistant bedbugs at bay, the bedbug generally will survive their exposure to Permethrin long enough to find you, bite you and feed on you.

Many pilgrims do spray the inside of backpacks or luggage before travel so that any bedbugs attempting to hitch a ride on clothing or sleeping bags may be killed. If it is to work, using separate storage bags, stuff sacks, etc., must also be sprayed on their interiors. Don't forget all exterior pockets or interior dividers.

Repellents are chemicals that keep insects away. They actually work two ways: they repel and deter insects. This means that insects move away from any skin or clothing treated with a repellant, and do not feed if they encounter skin that has been treated. When applied as instructed, repellents act to create a 'vapor barrier' at the skin surface. It keeps mosquitoes, flies, and ticks from landing or crawling on the skin.

Two of the most effective and commonly used repellent chemicals are DEET (N,N-diethyl-meta-toluamide), and Picaridin (1-piperidinecarboxylic acid 2-(2-hydroxyethyl)-1-methylpropylester). In repellant preparations, the higher the concentration, the more effective the repellant is.

Picaridin does not have some of the drawbacks as DEET. . . At a 20% concentration, Picaridin will have the same general level of effectiveness as an 80+% concentration of DEET. Picaridin has much less odor, and lasts longer. It is also more effective against ticks, though DEET is effective, too.

How to choose a repellant. First: Ignore the marketing names and catchy label graphics when buying a repellant. Look at the ingredient label and look for the active ingredient. (in this case DEET or Picaridin or both.) Next, look for the percentage of the active ingredient. For DEET, I prefer anything over 80%. For Picaridin, choose at least a 20% concentration.

With name brand repellants, if the ingredients listed fall into the effective category, forget the packaging and just purchase the cheapest product.

What will NOT work against bedbugs, but will irritate other pilgrims. There are NO essential or 'natural' oils, scents, goops, or chants that will repel bedbugs effectively. Tea tree oils, Neem oil, cinnamon, Eucalyptus oils, lavender, garlic, lemon, . . . All they do is provide a bedbug with a tasty marinade prior to feasting.

Studies have shown that some insects will avoid certain smells for an extremely abbreviated period, but the effect is very short lived, if it does occur.

Claims of bedbug repellency are made based on subjective 'correlation equals a causation' observations, but the claims don't hold up to scrutiny when studied. Similar, would be my claim that I have never been bitten by a bedbug while drinking Fanta Naranja, so Fanta is a bedbug repellant.

One can slather themselves with a gallon of lavender or lemon oil or garlic, but the only thing that will be repelled are other pilgrims.

Treatment for a bedbug infestation. The standard and best method now to deal with an infestation of bedbugs is with heat. Do not rely on chemical treatments. Thermal treatments of residences, lodgings, and commercial buildings does effectively eliminate wide spread infestations.

As a Pilgrim, what if you suspect, or learn about a bedbug exposure (bites, or seeing evidence of bedbugs) within a communal sleeping area? If possible, try to treat yourself, your gear, and clothing before continuing on to your next destination. You do not want to accidentally drag the critters to your next Albergue or casa rural, hotel, etc.

1. Try to be discreet with your concerns. Quietly inform the lodging staff about what you suspect.
2. Contain all your belongings in your backpack.
3. Locate a dryer which can reach above 130F/55c. Although adult bedbugs, nymphs, and eggs are killed at temperatures above 115f/46.2c., the lower the temperature, the longer the treatment time will take.
4. You do not need to do a washing cycle. It does not kill off an infestation.
5. If you have an hour, put all soft gear (backpack, sleeping bag, etc.) and clothing into the dryer and run it for 60 minutes at 115f/46.2c or above. This will be the most gentle on fabrics.
6. To shorten treatment, run the dryer at 135f/57.22c for 20 minutes.
7. When your clothing has been treated, you may wish to change out of the clothing you are wearing, bag and seal it up, and then keep that bag sealed until you can dry heat treat those clothes.

After arriving home from any trip, I recommend not taking luggage or gear into the house. Leave it in a garage or on a porch, etc. Empty everything out of the backpack or luggage and use a vacuum to the interior, carefully covering all nooks and crannies. Use heat treatment or use the freezer method described below.

For clothing and fabric gear, follow the heat or freezer treatment guidelines. If you need to wash clothing or gear anyway, a hot dryer will do the job in the shortest time frame.

Treatment alternatives. Instead of a dryer, you can use an oven if there is rack space where the clothing and gear can be spread out. Using a black plastic bag may work, but it is iffy because clothing bunches up and the bedbugs can be insulated from the heat.

At home, keep your if you have deep freezer, you can use below zero temperatures to freeze the critters, but it will take a lot more time to assure a completed kill.

 

[El Cascayal]

In all my previous Caminos, the one time I got bitten by bedbugs was the one time I didn’t permethrin spray both my backpack and silk liner. Though this is not a scientific experiment and is purely anecdotal, guess who will continue using permethrin. You will be glad that there are no pictures attached.

 

[trecile]

In all my previous Caminos, the one time I got bitten by bedbugs was the one time I didn’t permethrin spray both my backpack and silk liner. Though this is not a scientific experiment and is purely anecdotal, guess who will continue using permethrin. You will be glad that there are no pictures attached.

I always treat my sleep gear, my backpack and all of my cloth stuff sacks with permethrin on the theory that if bedbugs get into my backpack they will eventually die from permethrin exposure, and I won't transport them from place to place. However, it didn't keep me from being bitten on my first Camino.

 

[davebugg]

In all my previous Caminos, the one time I got bitten by bedbugs was the one time I didn’t permethrin spray both my backpack and silk liner. Though this is not a scientific experiment and is purely anecdotal, guess who will continue using permethrin. You will be glad that there are no pictures attached.

You may want to take an informal poll to ask who DID spray with Permethrin but still got bit.

 

[El Cascayal]

informal poll to ask who DID spray with Permethrin but still got bit.

Yes, it would be rather informal and highly un scientific. Who knows how many would have to answer for it to be statistically significant? And at the end, we would be exactly where we are now. Permethrin or no, bit or not in all the possible combinations. rule! No pun intended @davebugg

 

[dougfitz]

Below is listed current science-based information as of 05/31/2022. Sources are from various public health, medical, and entomological sources.

I was expecting that the sources might be listed. Are you able to provide those details.

 

[Pafayac]

In France, you can buy Permethrine, but I do not know where exactly in SJPP you could find it... Try a supermaket ? I will ask on a french forum for you.
If you have a chance to find a Decathlon you can find such a product:

Spray literie anti punaise - BIOVECTROL- 100 ml

Spray literie anti punaise - BIOVECTROL- 100 ml au prix de ★ 6€ ★ sur Decathlon.fr. Ce spray anti parasitaire pour literie, textile et bagages vous protégera des punaises de lit, puces, cafards, araignées et fourmis lors de tous vos treks.

www.decathlon.fr

Otherwise in a supermarket:

https://www.carrefour.fr/p/spray-permethrine-3461922510034

(It is sell for dogs but even if your sleeping bag does not bark, I think you can use it...

 

[Kanga]

I've sprayed everything and still been bitten.

 

[dick bird]

Permethrin will not stop you getting bitten. It is an insecticide, and rather slow acting, not a repellent.

Permethrin should prevent bedbugs being transmitted (to your home or the next albergue) in personal luggage and clothing, with the proviso that resistance to bedbugs is definitely an issue in the Americas, though less so in Europe.

Permethrin is banned in Canada (according to previous posters).

Treating items with permethrin usually requires them to be dunked in a diluted solution, then hung out to dry for a day or two. This is probably not practicable while you are on the camino.

Avoidance of bedbugs ultimately depends on a good mixture of luck and vigilance.

If you are unfortunate to be bitten by bedbugs and have good reason to believe you are carrying them with you (i.e. you have been bitten by bedbugs) there is a wealth of advice on this forum about what to do about it (essentially, put all your stuff through a really hot spin dryer for 45 minutes).

According to Pafayac (see above) you can buy permethrin spray in France. This is excellent news.

Buen camino.

 

[dougfitz]

Permethrin is banned in Canada (according to previous posters).

There are five products containing permethrin listed on the Health Canada medicines database shown as currently being marketed. They are for head lice and scabies. They are listed as OTC products.

There are a further 724 registered products on the Health Canada Pesticide Product Information Database. Some of these at least, and I didn't check all entries, are listed as available for domestic use. I also didn't check whether there were limitations, eg on indoor use.

I'm not sure how this equates to being banned.

 

[Kanga]

I've used permethrin on my backpack, clothes, and sleeping bag for every camino, and will continue to do so. Once things are dried I find it completely impossible to tell they have been treated; there is no smell or other indication.

I do take the extra precaution of, at night, putting my pack inside an extra large stuff sack (it is actually a pack liner for a 70 litre backpack) and cinching it closed. I hope that if a bedbug still manages to find its way into my belongings the permethrin will eventually kill it, and I will not be carrying pests into the next albergue or Hostal.

To protect myself (because I've been bitten numerous times, and react badly) I now completely encase myself inside a silk sleeping bag liner with a bedbug proof netting over the top. Since using that system I've not been had any problems.

 

[dick bird]

There are five products containing permethrin listed on the Health Canada medicines database shown as currently being marketed. They are for head lice and scabies. They are listed as OTC products.

There are a further 724 registered products on the Health Canada Pesticide Product Information Database. Some of these at least, and I didn't check all entries, are listed as available for domestic use. I also didn't check whether there were limitations, eg on indoor use.

I'm not sure how this equates to being banned.

It is what previous posters from Canada have said. They could be wrong, but it would explain why the OP couldn't obtain it.

 

[WalkingInGers]

Permethrin is available in pharmacies in France in liquid form or in cream.

 

[JerryStroebele]

As I recall, sometime in the past year a video was posted on this forum showing the effects of exposure to permethrin on a bedbug. It was painful to watch the very long death struggle of this poor little insect. However, I have seen the painful bites of bedbugs of my poor fellow pilgrims that I somehow avoided. I carry a permethrin sprayed silk liner which I place on the bed before my light quilt cover, which has also been so sprayed. (At home, just before departing for a Camino.) Sometimes I spray the edges with DEET. After reading this thread I will add Picaridin to the mix but continue with the permethrin. And swill Fanta naranja. Yum. Buen Camino

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

My wife and I have always used permethrin on our sleeping bags and silk liner. We have yet to be bit by bedbugs...so who knows? We maybe just lucky. I would hang them up along my garage door...spray them (ONLY ON THE OUTSIDE) and leave them to dry. Use gloves and wherever you do it keep the area well ventilated; hopefully on a windless sunny day. Permethrin, I believe, is still illegal to sell it Canada...although it is legal for our military to use it... Anyway, I once read (Fishing Chatroom) that it can be bought in Canada but you have to be a bit clever about it. Go to a Peavy Mart farm store and go to the Horse products section. They sell permethrin to use with horses...for what I do not to know. I bought a spray bottle from an outdoor store in Michigan (legal I the USA) when My wife and I were there years ago.

Or you've been bitten and are among the 50% of people who have no reaction to the bites.
Bedbugs are not disease vectors.
Those who react (as I do) can scratch themselves into a skin infection (rarely), but can ward that off by applying antihistamine cream or stick directly to a few bites, or taking a good antihistamine if there are many bites or the reaction is strong (cetirizine is the best for this).
Small animals who are in a completely infested environment can become anaemic. Happened recently to the cat of a friend of a friend. Cat had to be treated at vet for both anaemia and stress. House had to be treated at intervals for 6 weeks while the family decamped elsewhere. I think there were fleas too.
Permethrin has nothing to do with it. It's not effective for the job it is being asked to do, and has nothing to do with whether or not you will see bites (as @davebugg explained upthread).

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I was expecting that the sources might be listed. Are you able to provide those details.

Scientific papers can be found easier by using scholar.google.com. For bedbugs use the genus name, cimex

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

As I recall, sometime in the past year a video was posted on this forum showing the effects of exposure to permethrin on a bedbug. It was painful to watch the very long death struggle of this poor little insect. However, I have seen the painful bites of bedbugs of my poor fellow pilgrims that I somehow avoided. I carry a permethrin sprayed silk liner which I place on the bed before my light quilt cover, which has also been so sprayed. (At home, just before departing for a Camino.) Sometimes I spray the edges with DEET. After reading this thread I will add Picaridin to the mix but continue with the permethrin. And swill Fanta naranja. Yum. Buen Camino

Not showing bites does not mean you've not been bitten. It just means that in the face of many around you having visible bites that you are among the 50% who do not react.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

It is what previous posters from Canada have said. They could be wrong, but it would explain why the OP couldn't obtain it.

There is a difference between looking for permethrin (such as is available in the US) and having lice shampoo with it as one ingredient.
A colleague in Canada runs a field school for primatology in Costa Rica. To obtain permethrin for the same purposes that camino walkers want it (to use in high concentrations on fabrics to prevent insect infestation in communal areas) that colleague has to order it from the US and have it cleared by the REB and customs Canada, verifying that it is not for use in Canada.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I've always sprayed my sleeping bag, backpack, and a lightweight fitted sheet I bring when staying in albergues and slept like a baby. I had less anxiety "feeling protected and cocooned" against bedbugs.
I have never been bitten, but apparently it's been a false sense of security and I've just been lucky.

 

[Salmons]

Where in SJPDP would you be using the permethrin? You need to apply it outdoors away from other people and animals and not bring the treated items in until they are dry.

Agree. I was in an albergue in Hornillos and another pilgrim stayed her mattress with permethrin indoors. I thought I was going to choke to death. The fumes were horrible.

 

[trecile]

As I recall, sometime in the past year a video was posted on this forum showing the effects of exposure to permethrin on a bedbug

Here's the video

 

[darealdeal77]

Hi, we are avid hikers and did Camino Frances in 2014. I use Permethrin in my clothes, backpack and all camping gear including boots. The thing with this product is that when sprayed or wet can cause issues to animals and humans (that is why they recommend to spray outside in a well ventilated area, and let it completely dry before uses) we have been using this product for year and I can tell you I have never had any issues with it. Have hiked in tick infested locations and not one tick on! I don’t know if there is a Walmart in Canada or you can get Amazon? Is it an issue with Canada allowing the product in? If you cannot get it, do you have any friends in the US that can mail it to you? I know most of the Outdoor stores REI, DICKS, BASS has it too. I always get mine through Amazon. Hope this helps! BUEN CAMINO

 

[trecile]

Agree. I was in an albergue in Hornillos and another pilgrim stayed her mattress with permethrin indoors. I thought I was going to choke to death. The fumes were horrible.

It was probably DEET, which has a very strong smell, not permethrin which doesn't have much smell to me.
Regardless, no one should be spraying anything inside an albergue - and that goes for lavender spray too!

Treating items with permethrin usually requires them to be dunked in a diluted solution, then hung out to dry for a day or two.

The permethrin that I buy comes in a spray bottle which I use outside.

 

[darealdeal77]

It was probably DEET, which has a very strong smell, not permethrin which doesn't have much smell to me.
Regardless, no one should be spraying anything inside an albergue - and that goes for lavender spray too!


The permethrin that I buy comes in a spray bottle which I use outside.

NEVER BUT NEVER spray Permethrin on body, clothes while you wearing them or indoors. That is crazy of someone to do that, when the first thing the label warns is to spray outside in a well ventilated area! As for bites after treatment, I never had an issue, it has even worked with mosquitoes, but since you cannot spray your skin if your sleeping with legs or arms out in a non treated area you are bound to get bitten, I used a light silk liner and cocoon myself inside and had no issues in Camino

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I try not to use DEET on my skin, but occasionally have when camping over the years. I wonder if it is as toxic to the skin as Permethrin is supposed to be.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The thing with this product is that when sprayed or wet can cause issues to animals and humans (that is why they recommend to spray outside in a well ventilated area, and let it completely dry before uses)

NEVER BUT NEVER spray Permethrin on body, clothes while you wearing them or indoors.

Having read many years ago how effective permethrin treated clothes were for killing mosquitoes I tried to buy some. It was available in nearby Maine but banned for sale in Massachusetts (now legal, or at least available). While looking for the ban's reason I came across that there was a concern that it would be applied directly to the skin despite label warnings. Don't do that.

Memory is telling me that permethrin can be deadly to cats and fish. When spraying outdoors do it away from water or where it can be washed into water.

 

[Wandershot]

Not sure about France, but the pharmacies in Spain do carry an aerosol spray that is suitable for bedding and bags. I don’t recall the name, but just ask.

I am very reactive to bug bites and got eaten alive in my first Camino. So, I now pre-spray with permethrin. I understand the arguments against, but I’d rather use the spray rather than end up at the medical clinic…again.

 

[C clearly]

While looking for the ban's reason I came across that there was a concern that it would be applied directly to the skin despite label warnings.

That seems like a valid reason. Another reason might be related to truth in advertising - there might not be enough scientific study/evidence to demonstrate the effectiveness for the advertised use. That might be why its use for bedbugs is not advertised, but use for mosquitoes might be.

 

[gml]

You may want to take an informal poll to ask who DID spray with Permethrin but still got bit.

I sprayed my sleeping bag and backpack with Permethrin and was still bitten by bedbugs.

 

[ranthr]

Is Permethrin available in SJPDP. Not available where i live in Canada and i would like to treat my sleeping bag and liner.

Mike

Go to the farmacy in SJPDP and ask for Clako. Go to a bench in a park, spray your belongings and let them dry in the sun. Don´t forget your backpack and your shoes.
Most gites in France, at least some years ago, would give you a sheet of paper with instructions about how to treat your gear from bugs, with a picture of a tin of CLAKO.

 

[trecile]

Go to the farmacy in SJPDP and ask for Clako. Go to a bench in a park, spray your belongings and let them dry in the sun. Don´t forget your backpack and your shoes.
Most gites in France, at least some years ago, would give you a sheet of paper with instructions about how to treat your gear from bugs, with a picture of a tin of CLAKO.

Here's the website for Clako.

Insecticides naturels - Clako Punaises

Des produits insectides qui ont fait leurs preuves depuis 2010, appréciés par des centaines d'utilisateurs. L'efficacité nature !

clako-punaises.com

 

[Evan123]

Is Permethrin available in SJPDP. Not available where i live in Canada and i would like to treat my sleeping bag and liner.

Mike

Have you tried using the company Insect Shield (insectshield.com)? They will treat items of clothing that you send to them with permethrin. I don’t know if they will treat a sleeping bag or if they can ship to Canada, but it might be worth contacting them to find out. They replied promptly to me when I contacted them about treating other items.

 

[JerryStroebele]

This is a guideline I put together in a past thread, but I felt that it may be of help here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Below is listed current science-based information as of 05/31/2022. Sources are from various public health, medical, and entomological sources. Keep in mind that this is not an exhaustive text, but directed toward Camino travel. Providing counsel to people and providers dealing with such issues, as well as headlice and other assorted crawlies and parasites, was one of my jobs before retiring from Chelan-Douglas Public Health District.

My coworkers thought it amusing that Dave Bugg was the staff who dealt with bugs.

Insecticides are chemicals which kill insects. Not all consumer-grade insecticides will kill bedbugs, and those that do, (typically a pyrethroid or a synthetic variant), have produced bedbug strains that are now fully resistant in many areas of the world.

There are also categories of insecticides which can act like a repellant for some insects like mosquitoes and ticks, but they will not repel bedbugs. The most commonly cited is Permethrin.

As a pyrethroid, Permethrin can kill non-resistant bedbugs. However, if you are spraying sheets or sleeping bags thinking it will keep non-resistant bedbugs at bay, the bedbug generally will survive their exposure to Permethrin long enough to find you, bite you and feed on you.

Many pilgrims do spray the inside of backpacks or luggage before travel so that any bedbugs attempting to hitch a ride on clothing or sleeping bags may be killed. If it is to work, using separate storage bags, stuff sacks, etc., must also be sprayed on their interiors. Don't forget all exterior pockets or interior dividers.

Repellents are chemicals that keep insects away. They actually work two ways: they repel and deter insects. This means that insects move away from any skin or clothing treated with a repellant, and do not feed if they encounter skin that has been treated. When applied as instructed, repellents act to create a 'vapor barrier' at the skin surface. It keeps mosquitoes, flies, and ticks from landing or crawling on the skin.

Two of the most effective and commonly used repellent chemicals are DEET (N,N-diethyl-meta-toluamide), and Picaridin (1-piperidinecarboxylic acid 2-(2-hydroxyethyl)-1-methylpropylester). In repellant preparations, the higher the concentration, the more effective the repellant is.

Picaridin does not have some of the drawbacks as DEET. . . At a 20% concentration, Picaridin will have the same general level of effectiveness as an 80+% concentration of DEET. Picaridin has much less odor, and lasts longer. It is also more effective against ticks, though DEET is effective, too.

How to choose a repellant. First: Ignore the marketing names and catchy label graphics when buying a repellant. Look at the ingredient label and look for the active ingredient. (in this case DEET or Picaridin or both.) Next, look for the percentage of the active ingredient. For DEET, I prefer anything over 80%. For Picaridin, choose at least a 20% concentration.

With name brand repellants, if the ingredients listed fall into the effective category, forget the packaging and just purchase the cheapest product.

What will NOT work against bedbugs, but will irritate other pilgrims. There are NO essential or 'natural' oils, scents, goops, or chants that will repel bedbugs effectively. Tea tree oils, Neem oil, cinnamon, Eucalyptus oils, lavender, garlic, lemon, . . . All they do is provide a bedbug with a tasty marinade prior to feasting.

Studies have shown that some insects will avoid certain smells for an extremely abbreviated period, but the effect is very short lived, if it does occur.

Claims of bedbug repellency are made based on subjective 'correlation equals a causation' observations, but the claims don't hold up to scrutiny when studied. Similar, would be my claim that I have never been bitten by a bedbug while drinking Fanta Naranja, so Fanta is a bedbug repellant.

One can slather themselves with a gallon of lavender or lemon oil or garlic, but the only thing that will be repelled are other pilgrims.

Treatment for a bedbug infestation. The standard and best method now to deal with an infestation of bedbugs is with heat. Do not rely on chemical treatments. Thermal treatments of residences, lodgings, and commercial buildings does effectively eliminate wide spread infestations.

As a Pilgrim, what if you suspect, or learn about a bedbug exposure (bites, or seeing evidence of bedbugs) within a communal sleeping area? If possible, try to treat yourself, your gear, and clothing before continuing on to your next destination. You do not want to accidentally drag the critters to your next Albergue or casa rural, hotel, etc.

1. Try to be discreet with your concerns. Quietly inform the lodging staff about what you suspect.
2. Contain all your belongings in your backpack.
3. Locate a dryer which can reach above 130F/55c. Although adult bedbugs, nymphs, and eggs are killed at temperatures above 115f/46.2c., the lower the temperature, the longer the treatment time will take.
4. You do not need to do a washing cycle. It does not kill off an infestation.
5. If you have an hour, put all soft gear (backpack, sleeping bag, etc.) and clothing into the dryer and run it for 60 minutes at 115f/46.2c or above. This will be the most gentle on fabrics.
6. To shorten treatment, run the dryer at 135f/57.22c for 20 minutes.
7. When your clothing has been treated, you may wish to change out of the clothing you are wearing, bag and seal it up, and then keep that bag sealed until you can dry heat treat those clothes.

After arriving home from any trip, I recommend not taking luggage or gear into the house. Leave it in a garage or on a porch, etc. Empty everything out of the backpack or luggage and use a vacuum to the interior, carefully covering all nooks and crannies. Use heat treatment or use the freezer method described below.

For clothing and fabric gear, follow the heat or freezer treatment guidelines. If you need to wash clothing or gear anyway, a hot dryer will do the job in the shortest time frame.

Treatment alternatives. Instead of a dryer, you can use an oven if there is rack space where the clothing and gear can be spread out. Using a black plastic bag may work, but it is iffy because clothing bunches up and the bedbugs can be insulated from the heat.

At home, keep your if you have deep freezer, you can use below zero temperatures to freeze the critters, but it will take a lot more time to assure a completed kill.

Just returned from REI with two bottles of spray PICARIDIN. Gracias for the timely advise. My wife and I leave for Almeria in 3 weeks. Buen Camino

 

[trecile]

Just returned from REI with two bottles of spray PICARIDIN. Gracias for the timely advise. My wife and I leave for Almeria in 3 weeks. Buen Camino

That should help if you come in contact with mosquitos (I never have) but unfortunately, isn't much use against bedbugs.

Repellency of selected chemicals against the bed bug (Hemiptera: Cimicidae) - PubMed

In recent years, the common bed bug, Cimex lectularius L. (Hemiptera: Cimicidae), became a major public health concern in urban communities. Bed bugs are notoriously difficult to control, and their bites are not tolerated by most people. The public has an urgent need for materials and methods to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Sorry, I'm going to be Mister Mean here.

Here's the website for Clako.

Looked at it. I didn't see much any information on ingredients. With the flower pictures I suspect Clako is essential oils or some such. If so then buy it to cover up the smell of your shoes. Don't expect it to do more.

Have you tried using the company Insect Shield (insectshield.com)? They will treat items of clothing that you send to them with permethrin.

This may work, somewhat. Special treatments may keep permethrin in fabrics longer than treatments at home. Will keep killing the almost non-existant Spanish mosquitoes for a longer time but will not really help with bed bugs.

Just returned from REI with two bottles of spray PICARIDIN.

I hope it works for you. I've used DEET in various concentrations up to beyond 90% for years (I now look for about 30% and reapply as needed). I tried picaridin to avoid smell, toxicity and solvent problems but I think it just didn't work. That was with mosquitoes. From what I've read, bed bugs come out mostly very late and repellents have lost a lot of repellency by then. Besides, DEET and picaridin don't repel ticks and bed bugs as well as it does insects.

 

[Lleslie]

Probably a silly question but here goes! So you've sprayed your gear outside in a well ventilated area - avoiding skin contact and inhalation(!) and it has dried rendering it safe to wear/sleep against your skin, how does it then kill bedbugs if it is now 'safe'? I haven't sprayed my gear before my two previous caminos and haven't been bitten to my knowledge and hope my luckholds for my next in May

 

[trecile]

Probably a silly question but here goes! So you've sprayed your gear outside in a well ventilated area - avoiding skin contact and inhalation(!) and it has dried rendering it safe to wear/sleep against your skin, how does it then kill bedbugs if it is now 'safe'? I haven't sprayed my gear before my two previous caminos and haven't been bitten to my knowledge and hope my luckholds for my next in May

Because "the dose makes the poison." The dose that will kill a tiny bedbug is minuscule compared to the amount that could harm humans.

Looked at it. I didn't see much any information on ingredients. With the flower pictures I suspect Clako is essential oils or some such. If so then buy it to cover up the smell of your shoes. Don't expect it to do more.

Clako is mentioned in some old posts, like this one from @Kanga

The Annie Santiago method is to use a personal insect repellant containing pyrethrum or a synthetic version so that would be OK to spray on your skin, if that is what you want to do. Here it would be Aerogard, but any of the ones sold in a Spanish supermarket or farmacia would do. Not Deet because it is actually not as effective with bedbugs - as well as being more toxic - but one of the synthetic pyrethrums.

Before I came across Clako I used whatever the local farmacia stocked. Clako is easier because it comes in a smaller, lighter size. Clako is not sold to be sprayed on the skin but it probably wouldn't hurt - you would have to compare the ingredients with a spray specifically designed as a personal repellant - the container does not have any warnings on it.

But I don't spray it on myself - just the bed. The purpose is to find the bedbugs, not anything else. As Falcon points out, having a permethrin treated sheet is a different strategy. It is a barrier.

 

[JerryStroebele]

That should help if you come in contact with mosquitos (I never have) but unfortunately, isn't much use against bedbugs.

Repellency of selected chemicals against the bed bug (Hemiptera: Cimicidae) - PubMed

In recent years, the common bed bug, Cimex lectularius L. (Hemiptera: Cimicidae), became a major public health concern in urban communities. Bed bugs are notoriously difficult to control, and their bites are not tolerated by most people. The public has an urgent need for materials and methods to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

No problema! My REI provided Sawyer brand Picaridin is 20% ingredients, not the measly 7% pooh poohed in this article. Or, it's just another arrow in my quiver along with DEET and permethrin. Or, darn, another extra 3oz to carry. And I have seen a few mosquitos on a Camino. Can't remember where. Buen Camino

 

[Kanga]

Because "the dose makes the poison." The dose that will kill a tiny bedbug is minuscule compared to the amount that could harm humans.


Clako is mentioned in some old posts, like this one from @Kanga

Gosh, 2014! Is Clako still around? I gave up using it years ago, mainly because I could not get it anywhere but in France. I have no idea if it is actually effective.

 

[dick bird]

Probably a silly question but here goes! So you've sprayed your gear outside in a well ventilated area - avoiding skin contact and inhalation(!) and it has dried rendering it safe to wear/sleep against your skin, how does it then kill bedbugs if it is now 'safe'? I haven't sprayed my gear before my two previous caminos and haven't been bitten to my knowledge and hope my luckholds for my next in May

What is toxic to one species is not necessarily toxic to another, for example I understand chocolate is not very good for dogs. Similarly, DDT has little, if any, known effects on humans but kills insects (and various other species up the food chain).

 

[dbeatriceb]

Is Permethrin available in SJPDP. Not available where i live in Canada and i would like to treat my sleeping bag and liner.

Mike

When we were in Leon we went to a veterinarian who directed us to a farm supply store where we bought Permethrin. The pension where we were staying helped us with an outdoor location where we could safely spray and hang dry the treated items. I’m not sure if, in Canada, you could place an online order with REÍ for some Sawyers (permethrin spray)—if you can’t buy it in it Canada, I’m not sure if could be shipped to you there.

 

[nathanael]

Is Permethrin available in SJPDP. Not available where i live in Canada and i would like to treat my sleeping bag and liner.

Mike

Hey, Mike I live in the Niagara Falls region of Ontario and I use Permethrin. I go to Niagara Falls New York and buy it at Walmart they carry it. Unfortunately, we don't carry it in Canada. If you are close to the American border I try to purchase it there. Caio.

 

[nathanael]

Have you checked Ebay in Canada? That's how I bought some in the UK.

from my experience and what I was told it is not permitted to be shipped to Canada

 

[dougfitz]

It is difficult to know how much value to put on some of the statements made in this thread so far.

As a pyrethroid, Permethrin can kill non-resistant bedbugs. However, if you are spraying sheets or sleeping bags thinking it will keep non-resistant bedbugs at bay, the bedbug generally will survive their exposure to Permethrin long enough to find you, bite you and feed on you.

Permethrin will also kill resistant bed bugs, but it might take many days and repeated exposure to permethrin. That clearly is no help to any individual pilgrim staying just one night, but that doesn't make permethrin less valuable. It will still work quickly on less resistant and non resistant bed bug strains.

Permethrin will not stop you getting bitten. It is an insecticide, and rather slow acting, not a repellent.

I have found a couple of scientific articles that suggest that the situation is more complicated than @davebugg and @dick bird infer in their statements. The studies both looked at the effectiveness of a permethrin treated fabric, Activeguard, used for mattress encasements. They both demonstrated that bedbugs that had been exposed to the permethrin treated fabric were much less likely to go on to consume a blood meal. To quote from the abstract of one of the papers:

Bed bugs exposed to ActiveGuard for 10 min were significantly less likely to attempt to feed or successfully feed, and their average blood meal size was significantly smaller compared with individuals in all other groups. Independent of whether or not feeding occurred, females exposed to ActiveGuard for 10 min were significantly more likely to lay no eggs.

While one should be careful extending this to the treatments we might be able to manage as pilgrims, there is at least some evidence that you are less likely to get bitten when bed bugs are present if you treat your sleeping bag or liner.

As I recall, sometime in the past year a video was posted on this forum showing the effects of exposure to permethrin on a bedbug.

This is a dreadful piece of propaganda. More is left unsaid in this about a range of things that would go to establishing whether it was even remotely credible. The two things that came immediately to mind were whether the bed bugs used were from an resistant strain and what concentration of permethrin was used in this demonstration. The video doesn't appear to come from a research laboratory that might have established standard conditions and used a control population. I could go on. If anyone does have more information that fills in the gaps here, please share it. As it stands, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, and for those who have watched, ask yourselves if you really understand what was being achieved here besides a bit of scaremongering.

Sometimes I spray the edges with DEET. After reading this thread I will add Picaridin to the mix but continue with the permethrin.

This seems to be an odd approach, and I am wondering if other people use such a combination of insecticide and repellent. The reason I say it is odd is that for any insecticide to be effective, the target insects need to be exposed to it, for as long as reasonably possible. To use a repellent that will deter bed bugs or any other insects from staying on a treated fabric seems counter-intuitive to me. I think I would be using one approach or the other, not trying to combine them like this.

 

[Goyo]

What is toxic to one species is not necessarily toxic to another, for example I understand chocolate is not very good for dogs. Similarly, DDT has little, if any, known effects on humans but kills insects (and various other species up the food chain).

Hmm. Perhaps you mean DEET when you say DDT. While it is still used in a more limited fashion in efforts to kill malaria-spreading skeeters, The Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants banned the use of DDT for agricultural purposes worldwide in 2004. Buen camino!

 

[dougfitz]

Hmm. Perhaps you mean DEET when you say DDT. While it is still used in a more limited fashion in efforts to kill malaria-spreading skeeters, The Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants banned the use of DDT for agricultural purposes worldwide in 2004. Buen camino!

I suspect @dick bird really did mean DDT. For a start, DEET is not an insecticide, while DDT is. You are correct that it is no longer used for agricultural purposes, but it continues to have a valuable role in malaria control through indoor use in some countries. See https://apps.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2006/pr50/en/index.html

 

[Goyo]

I suspect @dick bird really did mean DDT. For a start, DEET is not an insecticide, while DDT is. You are correct that it is no longer used for agricultural purposes, but it continues to have a valuable role in malaria control through indoor use in some countries. See https://apps.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2006/pr50/en/index.html

Yep!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

It was probably DEET, which has a very strong smell, not permethrin which doesn't have much smell to me.

Permethrin doesn't have much of an odor but the inactive ingredients in the spray to get the permethrin to soak into the fabric may.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

[About combining DEET, Picaridin and Permethrin]

This seems to be an odd approach, and I am wondering if other people use such a combination of insecticide and repellent. The reason I say it is odd is that for any insecticide to be effective, the target insects need to be exposed to it, for as long as reasonably possible. To use a repellent that will deter bed bugs or any other insects from staying on a treated fabric seems counter-intuitive to me. I think I would be using one approach or the other, not trying to combine them like this.

Makes sense to me. I want to keep them away from my bag and me but if they do get in the bag I want them intoxicated or dead before they bite. And if they do bite but are too intoxicated to leave the bag the Permethrin may kill them before I lay out the bag in another albergue.

 

[JerryStroebele]

Okay, I'll just sleep tight and hope the bed bugs don't bite. Buen Camino

 

[marchepack]

Is Permethrin available in SJPDP. Not available where i live in Canada and i would like to treat my sleeping bag and liner.

Mike

I live in Canada and I am a long term user of permethrin. Sometimes I can get it online or at Cabela's but not often. I almost always have go to my local Home Hardware to buy to buy "Wilson's ANTOUT"

Wilson ANT OUT Ant Killer spray (1 L)

This easy-to-use and ready-to-use spray kills ants quickly (within 15 minutes to 1 hour), with long-lasting effects, both indoors and outdoors.

www.wilsoncontrol.com

It's permethrin and sold for home baseboards etc . I love what it does to black flies when they crawl on my tent. Anyway, spray what you want to protect, let it dry and it's good to go. It doesn't last past a washing but if you don't wash, it will last a month. Keep away from cats when wet.

On the camino I use it for my pack, sleeping bag and sleeping clothes. The only time I've had to deal with bed bugs was I didn't use my sleeping bag. The feet were bitten but when the bugs got to my leggings they stoped.

I could write a book about trying to get the Pest Management Regulatory Agency (Health Canada) to approve permethrin. The benefits of preventing lyme disease, Powassan disease and other tick borne illness far outweigh the risks.

 

[dougfitz]

I could write a book about trying to get the Pest Management Regulatory Agency (Health Canada) to approve permethrin. The benefits of preventing lyme disease, Powassan disease and other tick borne illness far outweigh the risks.

I observed earlier that there are appears to be a substantial number of products with permethrin as the active ingredient approved for use in Canada. And clearly you have been able to purchase one such product. Is this a matter of the proposed use you envisage not being approved, or is there something else that you would like the regulator to approve?

There are a further 724 registered products on the Health Canada Pesticide Product Information Database. Some of these at least, and I didn't check all entries, are listed as available for domestic use. I also didn't check whether there were limitations, eg on indoor use.

 

[marchepack]

I observed earlier that there are appears to be a substantial number of products with permethrin as the active ingredient approved for use in Canada. And clearly you have been able to purchase one such product. Is this a matter of the proposed use you envisage not being approved, or is there something else that you would like the regulator to approve?

Yes it's the use that has not been approved.

Canadians in general have only recently been allowed to buy and use permethrin treated clothing. (probably due to lobbying by manufacturers). The Canadian Forces have been doing this since the 1970's. The use that still has not been approved is the application of permethrin to clothing by Canadians themselves. Federal departments other than Health Canada have recommended it and several doctors groups have suggested it for travellers.

 

[dougfitz]

The use that still has not been approved is the application of permethrin to clothing by Canadians themselves. Federal departments other than Health Canada have recommended it and several doctors groups have suggested it for travellers.

I recall that in a somewhat dim past life, it was a standard treatment for military clothing where mosquitoes and ticks were present. Despite my earlier comment, permethrin treated clothing was often combined with a repellent on collars, cuffs and waistbands to deter ticks from getting under clothing and attaching themselves for their meal. Unlike bed bugs, ticks attach themselves more permanently directly onto the skin, so deterring them from doing that is a useful strategy.

More recently, I have treated my own clothing when travelling in the tropics or to tick infested areas.

My own view is that treating clothing is not a useful strategy on the camino, unless one intends to sleep in it. Underclothing or any clothing that comes into contact with moist areas of the body shouldn't be treated with permethrin in any case. It is useful to treat outer clothing for ticks and mosquitoes because they are active during the periods of the day when those items are being worn. Bed bugs are active in the dark, when one is normally sleeping. Treating bedding and clothing is the more effective way of dealing with that problem.

Edited.

 

[C clearly]

Unlike bed bugs, which can get their blood meal through a cloth 'barrier',

Can they? I have never heard that, and find it surprising if you are talking about reasonably finely woven fabric.

 

[trecile]

Can they? I have never heard that, and find it surprising if you are talking about reasonably finely woven fabric.

A quick Google search for "can bed bugs bite through cloth" came up with a resounding NO frommany sites.

 

[JerryStroebele]

If advertisers pay Ivar based on number of words or posts someone should ask the permethrin question every couple of months. Buen Camino

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

If advertisers pay Ivar based on number of words or posts someone should ask the permethrin question every couple of months. Buen Camino

Why? You want to cut down on Ivar's income?

 

[JerryStroebele]

Why? You want to cut down on Ivar's income?

No. Just the opposite. Seems to generate mucho (opposing) responses. Buen Camino

 

[Goyo]

I suspect @dick bird really did mean DDT. For a start, DEET is not an insecticide, while DDT is. You are correct that it is no longer used for agricultural purposes, but it continues to have a valuable role in malaria control through indoor use in some countries. See https://apps.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2006/pr50/en/index.html

A quick Google search for "can bed bugs bite through cloth" came up with a resounding NO frommany sites.

I would think they’d have to have some pretty big chompers to be able to to chew thru cloth. And they are a bit small, no?

 

[Tigger]

A quick Google search for "can bed bugs bite through cloth" came up with a resounding NO frommany sites.

Unlike bed bugs, which can get their blood meal through a cloth 'barrier', ....

Let's separate our apples and oranges. A quick search on Google ( and if it is on the internet it must be true ) ...

"Bed bugs are drawn to the CO2 released from humans breathing, so typically bite exposed areas on the arms, face and neck. And yet, they can burrow through clothing, so bites can also appear on the rest of the body. Some people report they get bitten under the elastic waistband of their PJ bottoms or underwear."

So, both of you appear to be correct!

 

[trecile]

And yet, they can burrow through clothing,

I think that the mean that they can crawl up you pajama leg or under your waistband. But they can't go through tightly woven fabrics.

 

[Tigger]

I think that the mean that they can crawl up you pajama leg or under your waistband. But they can't go through tightly woven fabrics.

We will never know. They did say 'burrow' suggesting the critters dig thru, but maybe the author used a poor choice of words and we are all wrong.

 

[trecile]

silk liner that you brought because you believed whoever told you silk repelled bed bugs

You are assuming that I believe that, which I don't.

 

[dougfitz]

You are assuming that I believe that, which I don't.

I know you don't. Others still seem to think that it does.

Would you like a wager on when there is a recommendation suggesting silk repels bed bugs? I'd suggest less than three months.

 

[C clearly]

Others still seem to think that it does.

Yes, but allowing this misinformation about bedbugs being able to penetrate through fabrics is not going to help at all!

We will never know.

I think we can be quite confident in our knowledge that bedbugs cannot bite through fabric. You found one article, from Today's Parent Magazine, that carelessly used the ambiguous word "burrow." Anyone who googles can find many more, more authoritative sources that say they cannot bite or crawl though finely woven fabric. Bedbugs and even the nymphs are the size of apple seeds. If they were able to chew their way through, I am confident that there would be lots of reports of damaged fabrics, and some of the internet sources would indicate that.

Please, let's provide information that will help people understand the bedbug situation.

 

[JerryStroebele]

In 2013 I read somewhere that a permethrin impregnated silk liner was advisable to have on the Camino. I bought them for my wife, daughter and me. Eight Caminos later, I am either a true believer, or just "most hopeful" that it works. Seems to. Of course, I re-impregnate with permethrin before each Camino, liberally spraying the silk liner OUTSIDE in the sun. And in two weeks I will spray the outside perimeters of the liners with Picaridin (20%!!). Cheap insurance. And yes, I am one of the lucky few who does not react to a mosquito bite. I feel the bite (pesky buggers) but that's it. We have about 20 quadrillion of them here in Alaska. Ok. probably a lot more. If I reacted badly, I would be dead. Maybe I have been bitten by bed bugs. Pilgrims around me in the albergues have been. If I have been bitten there was no sign or feel of it, I am blissfully ignorant and remain (somewhat) trusting in permethrin. Buen Camino

 

[C clearly]

a permethrin impregnated silk liner

A permethrin impregnated cotton/polyester/nylon liner will serve in the same way.

 

[LenB]

I've used permethrin on my backpack, clothes, and sleeping bag for every camino, and will continue to do so. Once things are dried I find it completely impossible to tell they have been treated; there is no smell or other indication.



I do take the extra precaution of, at night, putting my pack inside an extra large stuff sack (it is actually a pack liner for a 70 litre backpack) and cinching it closed. I hope that if a bedbug still manages to find its way into my belongings the permethrin will eventually kill it, and I will not be carrying pests into the next albergue or Hostal.



To protect myself (because I've been bitten numerous times, and react badly) I now completely encase myself inside a silk sleeping bag liner with a bedbug proof netting over the top. Since using that system I've not been had any problEms.

 

[LenB]

What kind of bedbug proof netting do you use?

 

[Kanga]

@LenB I cannibalised one of these. I bought it years ago and only used it once.

 

[C clearly]

What kind of bedbug proof netting do you use?

You can get "tulle" in a fabric store - that is what a ballerina tutu is made of various types (weights, stiffness, and mesh size) of netting in a fabric store. It will be in the section that also carries tulle for ballerina tutus.

 

[dougfitz]

Yes, but allowing this misinformation about bedbugs being able to penetrate through fabrics is not going to help at all!


I think we can be quite confident in our knowledge that bedbugs cannot bite through fabric. You found one article, from Today's Parent Magazine, that carelessly used the ambiguous word "burrow." Anyone who googles can find many more, more authoritative sources that say they cannot bite or crawl though finely woven fabric. Bedbugs and even the nymphs are the size of apple seeds. If they were able to chew their way through, I am confident that there would be lots of reports of damaged fabrics, and some of the internet sources would indicate that.

Please, let's provide information that will help people understand the bedbug situation.

I have removed my earlier comments referring to whether they can take a meal through fabric.

 

[André Walker]

Correlation does not equal Causation:
I've never used anything and I've never been bitten by bed bugs.

Unfortunately that doesn't mean not using anything is the best bug repellent ever.

 

[André Walker]

Correlation does not equal Causation:
I've never used anything and I've never been bitten by bed bugs.

Unfortunately that doesn't mean not using anything is the best bug repellent ever.

Or, a very worrying thought: my personal smell keeps them away...

 

[Goyo]

Don’t go knockin’ your own personal “olor”. It may come in handy repelling other species of annoying critters…

Buen camino!

 

[Tico15]

Is Permethrin available in SJPDP. Not available where i live in Canada and i would like to treat my sleeping bag and liner.

Mike

I don’t know about St. Jean since it’s pretty small but it is available via Amazon if it’s permitted in Canada. Smart move to pre-treat your gear. I made a huge mistake one cold night and used an albergue blanket. I was covered in bites the next morning so you do have to protect yourself and use your own gear.

 

[dougfitz]

I don’t know about St. Jean since it’s pretty small but it is available via Amazon if it’s permitted in Canada. Smart move to pre-treat your gear. I made a huge mistake one cold night and used an albergue blanket. I was covered in bites the next morning so you do have to protect yourself and use your own gear.

You seem to be inferring that the bed bugs were in the blankets, which is possible but might not have been the only place they were sheltering.

When I have stayed in Hostels International places in the past, it was always a requirement to have what was known as a youth hostel liner, a longer liner that covered a pillow as well as lining a sleeping bag. While this was also a hygiene issue, it could also be treated to provide protection from various biting insects. I do that now, but get the feeling that many see this as optional. Pity.

 

[trecile]

When I have stayed in Hostels International places in the past, it was always a requirement to have what was known as a youth hostel liner, a longer liner that covered a pillow as well as lining a sleeping bag. While this was also a hygiene issue, it could also be treated to provide protection from various biting insects. I do that now, but get the feeling that many see this as optional. Pity.

I don't see how liner really provides protection from bed bugs. They can crawl into that big opening at the top - the same one that you use to get into the liner.

 

[whiteblaze]

Is Permethrin available in SJPDP. Not available where i live in Canada and i would like to treat my sleeping bag and liner.

Mike

There is a long list of dues and don’ts, when using a Parisian solution on tent, equipment, and garments. For example, you don’t put this product on your bare skin or clothing on the body to be used. You would not use this product to spray your sleeping bag or the interior of your tent. It also takes a 2 to 4 Hour Dr. time on the initial application and also it’s only good for about 42 days. Of course you got a wash your clothes and depending on how many times you wash your clothes that can decrease the efficiency of the product to ward off bugs and sex. Whatever. This is from the Sawyer SAWY ER insect repellent Parisian instructions on the bottle. Sawyer.com

 

[dougfitz]

I don't see how liner really provides protection from bed bugs. They can crawl into that big opening at the top - the same one that you use to get into the liner.

A youth hostel liner was made to have a long 'bottom' section with a turn over that extended under one's head and shoulders. That could be used to pull over one's head and completely enclose the sleeper. Used with a hooded bag, it is a pretty complete solution. There are still going to be gaps where one gets in if one doesn't pull the top over but nothing like the ordinary liner designed to just fit in a non-hooded bag.

More, if they have to crawl over permethrin treated fabric, the evidence is that they are less likely to go on and consume a blood meal. Overall, one is better protected.

 

[Goyo]

a

There is a long list of dues and don’ts, when using a Parisian solution on tent, equipment, and garments. For example, you don’t put this product on your bare skin or clothing on the body to be used. You would not use this product to spray your sleeping bag or the interior of your tent. It also takes a 2 to 4 Hour Dr. time on the initial application and also it’s only good for about 42 days. Of course you got a wash your clothes and depending on how many times you wash your clothes that can decrease the efficiency of the product to ward off bugs and sex. Whatever. This is from the Sawyer SAWY ER insect repellent Parisian instructions on the

Por favor, pardon my ignorance, but what in Sam Hill is a “Parisian solution”? Spell check gone awry?

 

[mike g]

Is Permethrin available in SJPDP. Not available where i live in Canada and i would like to treat my sleeping bag and liner.

Mike

No one will ever see this but I'm going to say it anyway. The best defence against bed bugs are 1. learn to identify the evidence (google images is a fabulous resource)...bugs,cast off exoskeletons,and evidence of scats(poop if you will) flip the mattress up and check the tufting of the mattress. If you have a night stand pull out the drawers in inspect glides(flashlight needed) pull the bed frame away from the wall and check behind it. check the frame under it too if no evidence is found you should be good to go. If you are still not sure dab the suspected evidence with a slightly wetted tissue it will turn the tissue red as the scats are merely dried blood.
NOW the most important part When you get home before entering put everything in large black plastic bags seal and leave outside. And I mean everything!! Leave your stuff outside for a couple of days in the sun if possible. Then open the bags and do a thorough inspection of every thing inside turn the clothes inside out check all seams check your shoes very carefully as there are plenty of places that "cimex" can hide. Throw everything possible in a hot wash and dry or hang outside. "If you are out on the camino go through the search and wash procedure".
Re: permethrin or any of the other "thrins" available they are not going to work in the concentrations mentioned. Cimex feeds on blood so you are not contaminating their food supply so to speak. I have been employed as a licensed pest tech for forty five years. I know from whence i speak.
As a parting bit of advice and a warning Bedbug elimination is the most expensive work that we do. Fumigation(bagging the house) and a through inspection of virtually ever item in the house employing shop vacs and wet sprays So to effectivly treat a three bedroom american style house you are looking at about three grand. Cimex are incredibly tough and require exacting work to eliminate them. Good luck and always carry around some benadryl creame.

 

[trecile]

For those who have never seen a bed bug, this is what they look like.

 

[Kanga]

You can get "tulle" in a fabric store - that is what a ballerina tutu is made of.

No, I tried this and it does not work because it is too stiff when it gathers together. It might work if you used a zipper to close it. I also think the holes would be too big and would let in small bedbugs. It needs to be a very fine insect netting.

 

[Goyo]

Mike G! “No one” here. Just read your post. You said what travel writers have written and travelers have been saying for a long time in regards to bed bug defense: you almost have to tear the room apart in search of evidence of the little buggers before bedding down for the nite. And then the process continues upon arriving back home!?! Whatta pain, but better safe than shelling out a few grand for the house fumigación, not to mention the expense of vacating the premises for a hotel (I bet you’ll check for bed bugs this time!) until you get the all clear to move back in.

Thanks for the information. Buen camino.

 

[Onslow]

There is a Permethrin soak I do for all my clothes (except undergarments) before hiking in tick country. Last several washings before it wears off. Use the stuff they put on horses (diluted to 0.5%). Way cheaper than Sawyer. Spraying is okay but must be reapplied often. Very similar process to this.

Some soak in zip lock bags or 5gal bucket for several hours and then dry out.
This looks promising

DEET can be very harmful on camping/outdoors fabrics.

 

[C clearly]

No, I tried this and it does not work because it is too stiff when it gathers together. It might work if you used a zipper to close it. I also think the holes would be too big and would let in small bedbugs. It needs to be a very fine insect netting.

You might be right that the "tulle" used for tutus is not be the right one, but my fabric store has a variety of types and I found one netting that seemed suitable.

 

[trecile]

DEET can be very harmful on camping/outdoors fabrics

When I had a bed bug incident the hospitalera of the next albergue that I stayed in put everything that could go in a dryer into a hot dryer. She sprayed everything else with DEET, including my backpack. The DEET de-laminated the fabric inside the backpack.

 

[Walkerooni]

I've sprayed everything and still been bitten.

I’ve sprayed nothing, and have never been bitten.

 

[whiteblaze]

I see I did not take into consideration the sequence by which discussion matters are handled via your forum. New person. I do enjoy the information immensely because without it, I could not figure out how to approach "my" Cameno. Bed bugs can be a problem in your locale but mine are akin to ticks, fleas, possums, squirrels and other critters of the southern forests of the USA. Truthfully it is all serious to keep us healthy along our journey. So I am taking into my planning things I have no experience with to date.

My only difficulty so far is figuring out how to get out of Santiago de Compestallo to to Lourdes in France. l have Fatima figured out via Lisbon. I so want to see Lisbon which is my starting point.

Honestly I have tried to make a contribution to the support of the efforts of IVAR but have been twarted because of "fraud" suspicions from my credit card issuer. Can you send me the steps to help with the money to support your operation.

I bought the Santiago and Pourtugese travel guides and the iberian peninsula map. Glad I did. What an awesome trail system.

Whiteblaze a/k/a Blueblaze - very long story!

Enjoy you daya