Perfect solution (I hope..) sleeping system

[KariannNor]

Thanks so much to someone in here for this tips, can't find the thread. My sleeping bag (which I love) worked well last time, but a bit warm and too heavy. To reduce weight I have now done something (I hope!) will be a sucsess. Opened it all the way (also in the bottom) and layed it down. Then cut off 20/25 centimeters in each side (where the zipper was) so it fits the top of a silk liner. Also cut some in the bottom because I'm a very short person. So, now I will find sewing needle and thread and try to sew them together, top of the liner and the rest of the sleeping bag. With my very poor abilities in sewing it will definately not be pretty, but hopefully work. Liner under and comfortable dawn on top. Maybe I can turn it around if too warm and have the liner on top

 

[Antnix1]

Maybe upload a photo? Is it still a sleeping bag or did you invent the blanket?

 

[rainswift]

This is very similar to what I plan to use on my first Camino! I have an ultralight synthetic quilt (only 285g) that I'm going to tuck into my silk liner (103g). I feel this is going to be the best of all worlds: warm when I need it with the quilt, cool with just the silk liner when it's too hot!

 

[Corelacka]

I have previously used an ultralight synthetic quilt too and combined it with a homemade muslin liner - combined weight less than 500g. Worked a treat and will bring again this year for the CF in May-June.

 

[C clearly]

Any thread with the title "Perfect solution..." is doomed!

 

[KariannNor]

Maybe upload a photo? Is it still a sleeping bag or did you invent the blanket?

Upside: yes, kind of blanket, cut a part off my sleeping bag. Downside: just a liner. Together will be a sleeping bag yes haven't figured out the opening in the side, will be buttons of some kind I think.

 

[SeñorJacques]

This is very similar to what I plan to use on my first Camino! I have an ultralight synthetic quilt (only 285g) that I'm going to tuck into my silk liner (103g). I feel this is going to be the best of all worlds: warm when I need it with the quilt, cool with just the silk liner when it's too hot!

This is pretty much what I did for my CF in May 2022 (light quilt + liner). Turned out I only needed the quilt for the first few days after SJPP — after that the temperatures got pretty warm at night. I ended up giving my quilt away to a fellow pilgrim in Logroño and never missed it after that. But I did appreciate the fact that my pack was almost half a kilo lighter!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Upside: yes, kind of blanket, cut a part off my sleeping bag. Downside: just a liner. Together will be a sleeping bag yes haven't figured out the opening in the side, will be buttons of some kind I think.

Too late for you now but, if you are going to cut chunks off of a down bag, first run a line of stitching to seal off any leakage and then cut on the other side of it (if you see what I mean).

As for buttons, have you considered KAM snaps? You need to buy the crimping tool as well but they are useful little critters.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

This is very similar to what I plan to use on my first Camino! I have an ultralight synthetic quilt (only 285g) that I'm going to tuck into my silk liner (103g). I feel this is going to be the best of all worlds: warm when I need it with the quilt, cool with just the silk liner when it's too hot!

This could get a bit awkward at night if you're tucked in and find you're too hot. Consider gathering up the bottom edge of the quilt and cinching it with a heavy elastic ring (think pony tails). This forms a little footbox - a safety will increase the length of the closure.
Get into the liner and pull the quilt over you tucking your feet into the footbox. If you get too hot cast off the quilt. You should have enough quilt along the sides that you can tuck in under your hips so it shouldn't shift.

 

[rainswift]

This could get a bit awkward at night if you're tucked in and find you're too hot. Consider gathering up the bottom edge of the quilt and cinching it with a heavy elastic ring (think pony tails). This forms a little footbox - a safety will increase the length of the closure.
Get into the liner and pull the quilt over you tucking your feet into the footbox. If you get too hot cast off the quilt. You should have enough quilt along the sides that you can tuck in under your hips so it shouldn't shift.

This is a great idea - the quilt I bought has a zip and cinch to make a footbox. I could do that and put the quilt over top of the liner instead, tucking my feet in.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

This is a great idea - the quilt I bought has a zip and cinch to make a footbox. I could do that and put the quilt over top of the liner instead, tucking my feet in.

You don't, after all, need anything under you do you? I mean in bed, at home, are the blankets/quilt just on top or under you too?

 

[rainswift]

You don't, after all, need anything under you do you? I mean in bed, at home, are the blankets/quilt just on top or under you too?

Well, I think I'll like the liner if the mattress has no sheets like some albergues are said to do?

 

[Rebekah Scott]

What the --- is a "sleeping system?" Sounds like marketing BS to me.

 

[rainswift]

What the --- is a "sleeping system?" Sounds like marketing BS to me.

I think it's a term typically used in the backpacking community to mean "your sleeping bag and sleeping pad," as well as a pillow if one is carried by that camper. Although pilgrims don't usually carry a sleeping pad, it's common in backpacking to need one to insulate oneself from the cold ground.

 

[nycwalking]

Based upon this thread, the Not thread, and others I begin to wonder.

I wonder if we pilgrims are a collective group of frustrated stand-up comedians.

 

[KariannNor]

What the --- is a "sleeping system?" Sounds like marketing BS to me.

I really dont know what "marketing BS" is.. even when googleing..? but we all have to choose our equipment, thats was the meaning of the headline, are you with polar bears or in hot Spain f.eks... ?

 

[Rebekah Scott]

It is when a simple idea like "bedding" is made to sound technically analyzed and utterly custom- perfected to the point it must have a super-scienceified name to justify it's comparatively spectacular price. In any case, I think you carry it around and sleep in it at night.

 

[trecile]

My Camino "sleep system" can include some of my outer wear. It's the idea of thinking of how your gear works together in different circumstances.

Well, I think I'll like the liner if the mattress has no sheets like some albergues are said to do?

Many, many albergues only give (or sell) you a disposable sheet and pillowcase.

 

[dougfitz]

What the --- is a "sleeping system?" Sounds like marketing BS to me.

That's unkind. It goes with your protection system, which includes your wet weather protection system and fine weather protection system, your nutrition system, your navigation system, communication system and journey recording system, etc all contained within your load carriage system! Why shouldn't clothing, food, guide book, phone, camera and pack get 'systematised' names?

 

[C clearly]

What the --- is a "sleeping system?" Sounds like marketing BS to me.

it must have a super-scienceified name to justify it's comparatively spectacular price

This is hardly super-scienceified, but it doesn't hurt to use a bit of scientific thinking in solving ordinary problems. I think it is a very useful way to think about the matter for people packing for their Caminos - you shouldn't think about pyjamas and bedding in the same way as you do at home. You should think about the function - what you are trying to achieve. If this is offensively technical, I apologize! But give the scientists and engineers a break.

 

[dougfitz]

But give the scientists and engineers a break.

Surely that should be systems thinkers and systems engineers!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

the old journo maintains that Clarity is Good. Call things by their common names, and avoid confusion.

 

[Freewalker]

What the --- is a "sleeping system?" Sounds like marketing BS to me.

Hi Rebekah, it's a common term for wilderness backpacking.... and usually includes a sleeping mat/pad as well. However, I do not bring my sleeping system on the Camino as have another set of more casual gear.

 

[KariannNor]

Hi Rebekah, it's a common term for wilderness backpacking.... and usually includes a sleeping mat/pad as well. However, I do not bring my sleeping system on the Camino as have another set of more casual gear.

And in armed Forces, also including what to wear when sleeping under different conditions. Systems for everything.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

What the --- is a "sleeping system?" Sounds like marketing BS to me.

"A tent, above all for a solitary traveller, is
troublesome to pitch, and troublesome to strike again; and even on the
march it forms a conspicuous feature in your baggage. A sleeping-sack,
on the other hand, is always ready--you have only to get into it; it
serves a double purpose--a bed by night, a portmanteau by day; and it
does not advertise your intention of camping out to every curious passer-
by. This is a huge point. If a camp is not secret, it is but a troubled
resting-place; you become a public character; the convivial rustic visits
your bedside after an early supper; and you must sleep with one eye open,
and be up before the day. I decided on a sleeping-sack; and after
repeated visits to Le Puy, and a deal of high living for myself and my
advisers, a sleeping-sack was designed, constructed, and triumphantly
brought home.

This child of my invention was nearly six feet square, exclusive of two
triangular flaps to serve as a pillow by night and as the top and bottom
of the sack by day. I call it 'the sack,' but it was never a sack by
more than courtesy: only a sort of long roll or sausage, green waterproof
cart-cloth without and blue sheep's fur within. It was commodious as a
valise, warm and dry for a bed. There was luxurious turning room for
one; and at a pinch the thing might serve for two. I could bury myself
in it up to the neck; for my head I trusted to a fur cap, with a hood to
fold down over my ears and a band to pass under my nose like a
respirator; and in case of heavy rain I proposed to make myself a little
tent, or tentlet, with my waterproof coat, three stones, and a bent
branch."

Robert Louis Stevenson, Travels with a Donkey in the Cevennes 1879 - an early proponent of stealth camping and "sleeping systems".

 

[KariannNor]

Too late for you now but, if you are going to cut chunks off of a down bag, first run a line of stitching to seal off any leakage and then cut on the other side of it (if you see what I mean).

As for buttons, have you considered KAM snaps? You need to buy the crimping tool as well but they are useful little critters.

Jup, too late advice, should really done as you describe ;-) Problem with buttons is that the liner is so thin, not easy to fasten something in it.. will try similar to those you suggest

 

[Freewalker]

And in armed Forces, also including what to wear when sleeping under different conditions. Systems for everything.

Yes no doubt the term originated in the Forces, makes complete sense to me !

 

[dougfitz]

Yes no doubt the term originated in the Forces, makes complete sense to me !

That is not the accepted understanding of the origin of the term systems engineering and the general adoption of systems thinking in understanding complexity in design. The first use of Systems Engineering appears to have been in a Bell Laboratories paper from the 1950s (see https://sebokwiki.org/wiki/A_Brief_History_of_Systems_Engineering). Systems thinking first appears about the same time. While the word 'system' has a much older origin, its meaning in the context of this discussion comes from the emergence of systems engineering as a distinct discipline in the middle of the 20th century.

 

[Freewalker]

That is not the accepted understanding of the origin of the term systems engineering and the general adoption of systems thinking in understanding complexity in design. The first use of Systems Engineering appears to have been in a Bell Laboratories paper from the 1950s (see https://sebokwiki.org/wiki/A_Brief_History_of_Systems_Engineering). Systems thinking first appears about the same time. While the word 'system' has a much older origin, its meaning in the context of this discussion comes from the emergence of systems engineering as a distinct discipline in the middle of the 20th century.

Lighten up !!

 

[dougfitz]

Lighten up !!

Be accurate!!! Then I won't feel the need to provide a more correct explanation.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Be accurate!!! Then I won't feel the need to provide a more correct explanation.

Well said, @dougfitz, coming from your detailed, methodically thought out posts, and I expect no less from you. I appreciate the diverse personalities and opinions on this forum, or it might as well be like a Camino handbook with no opportunity to comment.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

For me, I don't think I could sleep well in a liner with a quilt tucked inside. I thrash around too much and am sure the quilt inside would bunch up and wake me up or I'd be too worried to sleep to try not to toss and turn. I feel the same way about a down quilt laying on top of a liner as it would most likely end up on the floor and I do not want to bother to create buttons or snaps to secure it to a liner.
My simple system is to bring a lightweight sleeping bag suitable for indoors. If I need occasionally need extra warmth in April or early May, I add a fleece quarter zip to wear. If I get too warm, I unzip a portion and take my leg out which quickly cools my body.

 

[David Tallan]

That is not the accepted understanding of the origin of the term systems engineering and the general adoption of systems thinking in understanding complexity in design. The first use of Systems Engineering appears to have been in a Bell Laboratories paper from the 1950s (see https://sebokwiki.org/wiki/A_Brief_History_of_Systems_Engineering). Systems thinking first appears about the same time. While the word 'system' has a much older origin, its meaning in the context of this discussion comes from the emergence of systems engineering as a distinct discipline in the middle of the 20th century.

I don't believe @Freewalker (or @KariannNor) was talking about the origin of the term "systems engineering" but rather of the term "sleep system" or "sleeping system", which is what this discussion has been about. I don't believe (although I am certainly ready to accept evidence that I am in error) that Bell Laboratories was discussing sleeping systems.

It is good to push for accuracy. But I think this particular bit of accuracy may have been misapplied.

 

[trecile]

For me, I don't think I could sleep well in a liner with a quilt tucked inside. I thrash around too much and am sure the quilt inside would bunch up and wake me up or I'd be too worried to sleep to try not to toss and turn.

I solved that problem with elastic straps that keep my silk sleep sack in place on the mattress. And my down blanket has ties (that I can use or not) to keep it in place in the sleep sack.

 

[dougfitz]

I don't believe @Freewalker (or @KariannNor) was talking about the origin of the term "systems engineering" but rather of the term "sleep system" or "sleeping system", which is what this discussion has been about. I don't believe (although I am certainly ready to accept evidence that I am in error) that Bell Laboratories was discussing sleeping systems.

It is good to push for accuracy. But I think this particular bit of accuracy may have been misapplied.

I see that the use of systems labels such as 'sleep systems' could be traced pretty directly from the developments in systems engineering and systems thinking. Those emerging disciplines certainly took hold in the military with terms like 'infantry combat systems', 'communications systems', etc taking over from talking about soldiers and radios. There are good reasons for this - it wasn't just linguistic pretentiousness. But that is another discussion.

This discussion appeared to move into what I think is a laudable desire to use plain language. Wilderness backpacking afficionados might use the term 'sleep system' for good reason, but that is not who we are on this forum. The question of whether to bring a sleeping bag is just that, a discussion about sleeping bags. It might sometimes edge into discussions about the context in which a bag might be used, but it rarely gets too deeply into the broader aspects that would justify it being called a discussion about sleep systems.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

This discussion appeared to move into what I think is a laudable desire to use plain language. Wilderness backpacking afficionados might use the term 'slee usep system' for good reason, but that is not who we are on this forum. The question of whether to bring a sleeping bag is just that, a discussion about sleeping bags. It might sometimes edge into discussions about the context in which a bag might be used, but it rarely gets too deeply into the broader aspects that would justify it being called a discussion about sleep systems.

Ah, now it's my turn to disagree. Many of us on here are Wilderness backpacker aficionados. (Or at least we used to be, some of us have now retired to the Camino). In addition to which, many are also ex forces, where the term is also in common usage. Some, like myself, may also be backpackers - no wilderness required. And in the first 10 years or so of me backpacking we also used the term sleep system. ( No longer, because for hygiene reasons most Backpacker hostels etc provide bedding).

Whilst the the thread started with modifications to a sleeping bag, (as usual) we are no longer talking about just a sleeping bag. Some have raised alternatives - liners with added elastic, duvets, sleeping with your clothes on etc - even @Jeff Crawley's excellent post!

Of course, in the interests of both simplicity and accuracy, as @Rebekah Scott quite rightly pointed out it could all just be called 'bedding'.

But at the end of the day it's the OPs thread, so she can call it what she wants. We are all merely choosing to read and participate in it !

 

[catheriam]

For me, I don't think I could sleep well in a liner with a quilt tucked inside. I thrash around too much and am sure the quilt inside would bunch up and wake me up or I'd be too worried to sleep to try not to toss and turn. I feel the same way about a down quilt laying on top of a liner as it would most likely end up on the floor and I do not want to bother to create buttons or snaps to secure it to a liner.
My simple system is to bring a lightweight sleeping bag suitable for indoors. If I need occasionally need extra warmth in April or early May, I add a fleece quarter zip to wear. If I get too warm, I unzip a portion and take my leg out which quickly cools my body.

Recommendations sought for a sleeping bag for early April start from Roncesvalles - CF. A bit of a thrasher myself. Third Camino and resolute to refugio rather than private accommodation and want to be prepared.

 

[David]

I don't have a problem with 'sleeping system' - bedding is domestic, one's home bedroom and covers pillows, duvets, sheets, etc whereas the Camino is a different place ... one needs to work out what one carries for sleeping .. why, even work out some sort of system that allows for very different nights - mountain ranges, mesetas, valleys, hot refugios, cold refugios, draughty refugios - even the possibility of sleeping outdoors if caught out - sure, one could have the same weather/climate all the way but over 500 miles it can alter significantly, as we all know -

... so, a discussion at a pilgrim meet or in a bar at home with other pilgrims .. surely it would be quite appropriate for someone to ask "what system do you use for sleeping?"

on the other hand one could ignore the cheerful, almost joyful opening post that Karrian wrote, to share how she thinks she may have sorted her sleeping equipment to allow for all conditions, and be lighter too and instead be rude or pedantic and suck the joy out of the whole post ...

Karrian - re buttons .. I'm not so sure .. thinking about trying to find them and get out of the bag in the dark when nature calls .. one can buy Velcro pads that sew on - might be better?

 

[markie6]

Recommendations sought for a sleeping bag for early April start from Roncesvalles - CF. A bit of a thrasher myself. Third Camino and resolute to refugio rather than private accommodation and want to be prepared.

Regardless of cost or brand I always point people towards a 2-3 season sleeping bag which packs down small and easilly. No need for an expensive one but its own stuff sack is a plus. I got a cheapy one from amazon and it's lasted me 50+ days so far and still going strong. REI in the USA has plenty and european outdoor shops and their GB equivalents have loads too.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Recommendations sought for a sleeping bag for early April start from Roncesvalles - CF. A bit of a thrasher myself. Third Camino and resolute to refugio rather than private accommodation and want to be prepared.

I use a NatureHike brand sleeping bag from Amazon for most of my Caminos. It was about $35 and I really like the feel of its fabric, which is very comfortable, not like some of those slippery poly fabrics like many cheap bags are made of, yet it is not cotton. It did come with it's own compression bag, but I do not bring it as I find them a nuisance. Instead I prefer folding it, slipping it in a one gallon ziplock bag and then sit on it on my bunk to get the air out. The bag is great for me; a nice in between, not too thick, but is not a liner. I did use a liner on the Le Puy as I went for the month of June that year when my friends and I stayed in Gites.

 

[rainswift]

on the other hand one could ignore the cheerful, almost joyful opening post that Karrian wrote, to share how she thinks she may have sorted her sleeping equipment to allow for all conditions, and be lighter too and instead be rude or pedantic and suck the joy out of the whole post ...

I appreciate your pointing out that this thread started out with joy and enthusiasm, and I wish that it had remained that way, also.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Thanks so much to someone in here for this tips, can't find the thread. My sleeping bag (which I love) worked well last time, but a bit warm and too heavy. To reduce weight I have now done something (I hope!) will be a sucsess. Opened it all the way (also in the bottom) and layed it down. Then cut off 20/25 centimeters in each side (where the zipper was) so it fits the top of a silk liner. Also cut some in the bottom because I'm a very short person. So, now I will find sewing needle and thread and try to sew them together, top of the liner and the rest of the sleeping bag. With my very poor abilities in sewing it will definately not be pretty, but hopefully work. Liner under and comfortable dawn on top. Maybe I can turn it around if too warm and have the liner on top

@KariannNor , this one by any chance ? (I've been going nuts trying to think of the Post you mean because I recall reading it too)
Although I thought I'd seen one where somebody made their own exactly as you are doing.

Both, but in one.
My wife and I have sleeping bags that have one side with a light lining, and the other side with insulation. Works great as you can just sleep under the side you need, change during the night, and they pack very small.
We've long since cut off the tags and I forget the name. If it helps (and you are interested) we did buy them at MEC (Outdoor store in Canada) that may still carry them (though since they sold we believe we've have seen a drop in variety of equipment).

Either way, hope your project works out well, and despite everything above, thanks for sharing!

 

[rainswift]

@Peterexpatkiwi, Regarding the product discussed in your second quote, I believe it is the MEC Camino Traveller sleeping bag. It is currently out of stock, but I wrote to MEC's chat and found out that they do have an order put in to restock them, ETA Spring 2024. At $90 CAD, pretty cost effective for a dual-temp solution!

 

[C clearly]

trying to think of the Post you mean because I recall reading it too)
Although I thought I'd seen one where somebody made their own exactly as you are doing.

That one side warm, one side not, is effectively what you get by putting a small down quilt inside a silk liner. You can fix the quilt in place by various means, even sewing it along the bottom and/or sides.

 

[KariannNor]

Karrian - re buttons .. I'm not so sure .. thinking about trying to find them and get out of the bag in the dark when nature calls .. one can buy Velcro pads that sew on - might be better?

Thanks, thats true, and you have a great tip! but I'm wondering, what if you were sleeping one meter away from me, and I were to tear up such fasteners in the middle of the night.. uhh, don't they make a lot of noise when everything is quiet? maybe I wouldn't become very popular? I don't know, never tried them.. But thanks for tips, will definately think of that one..
Appreciate any suggestions on this button problem.. ha ha.. for such details to become a thing is ridiculous.. but since I'm a big gear freak, it's fun to make things work for the best too.. and I suspect I'm not the only freak detail planner in here ;-)

 

[rainswift]

Thanks, thats true, and you have a great tip! but I'm wondering, what if you were sleeping one meter away from me, and I were to tear up such fasteners in the middle of the night.. uhh, don't they make a lot of noise when everything is quiet? maybe I wouldn't become very popular? I don't know, never tried them.. But thanks for tips, will definately think of that one..
Appreciate any suggestions on this button problem.. ha ha.. for such details to become a thing is ridiculous.. but since I'm a big gear freak, it's fun to make things work for the best too.. and I suspect I'm not the only freak detail planner in here ;-)

What about some snap buttons? Not too many, maybe just 4 of them. Then they won't be as noisy, and also you can snap them together by feel in the dark more easily than doing up regular buttons.

 

[C clearly]

I sewed a 22" zipper on the side, just long enough to help me get in and out. You could go longer.

 

[KariannNor]

I sewed a 22" zipper on the side, just long enough to help me get in and out. You could go longer.

Wow, well done! I could never dream of achieving something like that.

 

[trecile]

That one side warm, one side not, is effectively what you get by putting a small down quilt inside a silk liner. You can fix the quilt in place by various means, even sewing it along the bottom and/or sides.

I use ties to keep my blanket in place so that I can remove it completely to launder, or if I just don't need to take it, for example on s summer Camino.

I sewed a 22" zipper on the side, just long enough to help me get in and out. You could go longer.

I went with a 36" zipper.

 

[David]

Ah, Velcro - my bad - imagine ripping five or so of them apart at 3am!

 

[ShoshTrvls]

Thanks to my merely reading this thread, the below add just popped up on my browser.

 

[dougfitz]

Thanks to my merely reading this thread, the below add just popped up on my browser.

Now that is I would think of as sleep system.

 

[David Tallan]

@Peterexpatkiwi, Regarding the product discussed in your second quote, I believe it is the MEC Camino Traveller sleeping bag. It is currently out of stock, but I wrote to MEC's chat and found out that they do have an order put in to restock them, ETA Spring 2024. At $90 CAD, pretty cost effective for a dual-temp solution!

I got one of these for my daughter for our upcoming Camino (mine is a Trecile Special ).

 

[KariannNor]

My bag now has 5 snap buttons. Also sewed on a little mesh bag just the size for earplugs, lip balm, sleeping mask and sleeping socks. Next project is trying to sew on a little bag that maybe can work as the thing to pack the bag into, turn it around into it. So I don't have to search for the little bag to put it into in the morning. Very proud of myself

 

[David]

You should be proud! Innovation and hands-on? what's not to like!!

Could you attach a sleeping bag stuff sack with straps so you can really compress it? Not quite sure where you would sew it on ... sewn sideways at the top so you could put something like a fleece or sweater inside for a pillow?

Like this? - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/145184755952

 

[KariannNor]

You should be proud! Innovation and hands-on? what's not to like!!

Could you attach a sleeping bag stuff sack with straps so you can really compress it? Not quite sure where you would sew it on ... sewn sideways at the top so you could put something like a fleece or sweater inside for a pillow?

Like this? - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/145184755952

View attachment 163497

Thank you and WOW, what a great tip, a really good idea, compress AND make a pillow, I will definately do so! Been wondering about where to sew it, now you actually gave me a solution Its a "of course" when you hear it, but I really haven't thought of it. (But I do not have a long career in sleeping bag-world, so maybe the solution is "common"). Have not bought the bag yet, do not take the change on e-bay, they often take ages to deliver here..