Would you still walk the Camino if you could not access the Internet ?

[jirit]

EDITED
When I first did the Camino, the iPhone had not been released and very few people carried mobile phones. The only way to communicate with people back home was either with low speed email using coin operated Internet terminals found in the occasional Cafe, or via slow mo mail services, meaning most people got your postcard shortly after you arrived home from Spain.

Now we have always connected, high speed 4/5G networks, wifi, and Internet enable hand held multiple purpose mobile devices capable of running a small company, that slip into a back pocket. Photos, videos, FaceTime, Skype, and simple emails (including texts, etc) sent in an instant to anybody, anywhere, anytime, in the world.

So I am asking.

Would you still walk the Camino for 3-4 weeks if you were unable or could not to access internet during this entire period?

This means no access to email or the Internet, or Skype, or your fav apps, or electronic guidebooks, etc - basically nothing. Pen and paper kind of world stuff

 

[C clearly]

Ha! Here I am, the defender of connectedness, who said she didn't want to go anywhere without her smartphone!

It is an odd hypothetical question. One might ask "Would you do X, if you couldn't connect to the internet?" or "Would you walk the camino if you couldn't take a poncho?"

The absence of internet would not be a deciding factor for me. I did many things happily before the internet was invented and would do so in the future too if it were eliminated. However, I have no interest in eschewing the internet on a point of principle, as I enjoy the benefits it brings.

None of the answer choices is quite right for me. I would say "Willing to do so if it weren't available." I would not expect to be panicking.

 

[Bradypus]

I have walked from St Jean Pied de Port to Santiago without ever using a mobile phone or the internet. I know that I can. But now I carry one and would not walk without it just to make a point.

 

[VNwalking]

In an eyeblink!
Well, I wouldn't miss the internet at all, but I might miss some of my friends who quite like it.
[Edit~and I don't think Jirit was meaning would we do it to make a point, just would we do it at all? Right, Jirit--or am I missing something?]

 

[domigee]

Yes

 

[mspath]

Of course!

 

[darronb]

Yep I would.

 

[Felice]

Yes

But it would take a bit more organisation before I left to ensure that home ran OK whilst I was away - no paying bills online, no checking the bank account.
And it would be more expensive in terms of phone bills as I kept up with the family situation.

The internet has made things easier and cheaper. It also gives me peace of mind to know that nothing untoward has happened back home whilst I am away.

I envy those who are able to totally go 'off grid' for 4 weeks as I have responsibilities that prevent me from doing so.

 

[William Garza]

Felice hit it on the head.
I can get up n go..I've not family of my own
Bro and sisters could live without me.
As for not using the web?
Ide like to check to see what is hidden in those dark clouds now n then.

 

[Stuart Lennon]

Yes - I'm looking forward to being offline for a while.

 

[Icacos]

When I walked the Way, I would have given my eye teeth to go without internet - I wanted/needed to go completely off the grid - but I relented when I became convinced that some people I was leaving behind would worry too much about me. I compromised by taking an iPhone (my first) and posting regularly so that those who cared to could know of my wellbeing. Other than that, there was no Skype, no phone calls, and just one or two very necessary emails initiated by me. Next time I hope to go off the grid - in fact I dream of it.

 

[Giselleontour]

Yes
but I am from Germany. So home is not that far away.
But once a week I would like to use a phone to make a call to my family.
What I do in these days: Take the smarthphone with me, but just use it as a phone. No checking emails, no pre-booking and I am not in Facebook. I use whats app to give my family and best friend a chance to reach me if necessary.
I love to be disconnected and free with my own thoughts.
Mobil phone I do need - the internet access not.

 

[VNwalking]

And I'd love to hear from whomever voted for number 4. Not so we could gang up and try to change their mind, but I'm genuinely interested to know the reason behind the vote....

 

[evanlow]

I like to keep an online journal on my blog instead of a personal one so internet access is required. In the past without the ease of mobile internet it was updating after the walk which is even more time consuming.

Also, after the three Caminos, something changed. It had become less spiritual and more an adventure. Part of the reason may be because my life actually have gotten simpler (like the Camino) as I got sick and tired of walking the Camino just to live a simpler life for a short period of time and go back to a complex life. Without the need for internal reflection anymore there is no need to shut out everything just for the road.

Even cycling became a possibility (blasphemous for some walkers) for some routes.

 

[Bradypus]

I'm puzzling a little over what hypothetical scenario @jirit has in mind. Why would it be impossible to access the internet while walking the camino? That might have a big effect on my answer. Just three admittedly unlikely scenarios from the top of my head:
(A) Spain has become an isolationist totalitarian regime like North Korea and cut itself off from the world?: then I probably don't want to go there.
(B) There has been some sort of global apocalypse and the internet has ceased to exist?: then I probably have more pressing concerns and urgent priorities than walking across Spain for a month.
(C) The Camino is now controlled and regulated by an omnipotent central authority which vets all potential pilgrims and requires them to make a quasi-monastic vow of digital abstinence before granting them a credencial?: being essentially bloody-minded I'd object to that just as a matter of principle.

With slight apologies for the reductio ad absurdum I think there are trace elements of (C) behind the OP's question. I also think that it relates a little uncomfortably to the never-ending argument about what makes a "real pilgrim". I fear that many of us - and I include myself amongst them - share a collective nostalgia for a romantic vision of the Camino and pilgrimage which probably never existed. My worry is that such a fantasy could very easily drift towards a prescriptive orthodoxy. Is it intrinsically morally and spiritually superior to walk the caminos "unplugged"? I am not convinced that is true. Like it or not the internet and modern technology are facts. Unless the world changes in very troublesome ways then they are here to stay. How we deal with our own dependence on them is at heart a personal question. I hope it does not colour our perceptions of others' choices too deeply.

 

[Tincatinker]

Not necessarily hypothetical: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ch-limit-just-eight-years-warn-engineers.html

Non-UK residents may not be aware that the Daily Mail is the most reliable source of factual information available

 

[Albertagirl]

I agree with Felice that it might be challenging for practical reasons like access to banking. I do not carry a phone. But I use the internet on my ipad and rely on it to pay bills and keep track of my finances. Family and friends enjoy my occasional group emails, but I could do without. Since this is a new practice for me and those close to me know that I can take care of myself, it would not be a problem to cease all communication, except possibly the occasional postcard.
May I point out that this issue of paying one's bills and having access to cash is not a new one? I believe that one of the main functions of the Knights Templar on the camino was to maintain a banking system which was safe and accessible to pilgrims - hence the decision of the King of France and the pope to destroy the order and loot their goods. Failing such a decision by public authorities, I can manage just fine.

 

[edandjoan]

yes we would

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Absolutely, but not without a phone, for security reasons, to call albergues upon arrival so someone can come and open the door, to book ahead if needed and for any news of an emergency back home. But internet, absolutely can do without.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I have done it. I know other people who've done it. 950+ years of history say it can be done, it's been done.
Yeah, it takes some adjusting, but it's surprisingly easy.
And then it is WONDERFUL. Like learning how to swim, or walk, or read. Suddenly, after a little stumbling... wow!
You realize how addicted you are to mindless crap.

But don't EVEN suggest this in certain circles, or you will be accused of the worst crime in the world: "judging." The people doing MY CAMINO cannot stomach anyone not fully wired.

 

[jirit]

In an eyeblink!
Well, I wouldn't miss the internet at all, but I might miss some of my friends who quite like it.
[Edit~and I don't think Jirit was meaning would we do it to make a point, just would we do it at all? Right, Jirit--or am I missing something?]

That's correct - would we do it all ?

 

[jirit]

I'm puzzling a little over what hypothetical scenario @jirit has in mind. Why would it be impossible to access the internet while walking the camino? That might have a big effect on my answer. Just three admittedly unlikely scenarios from the top of my head:
(A) Spain has become an isolationist totalitarian regime like North Korea and cut itself off from the world?: then I probably don't want to go there.
(B) There has been some sort of global apocalypse and the internet has ceased to exist?: then I probably have more pressing concerns and urgent priorities than walking across Spain for a month.
(C) The Camino is now controlled and regulated by an omnipotent central authority which vets all potential pilgrims and requires them to make a quasi-monastic vow of digital abstinence before granting them a credencial?: being essentially bloody-minded I'd object to that just as a matter of principle.

With slight apologies for the reductio ad absurdum I think there are trace elements of (C) behind the OP's question. I also think that it relates a little uncomfortably to the never-ending argument about what makes a "real pilgrim". I fear that many of us - and I include myself amongst them - share a collective nostalgia for a romantic vision of the Camino and pilgrimage which probably never existed. My worry is that such a fantasy could very easily drift towards a prescriptive orthodoxy. Is it intrinsically morally and spiritually superior to walk the caminos "unplugged"? I am not convinced that is true. Like it or not the internet and modern technology are facts. Unless the world changes in very troublesome ways then they are here to stay. How we deal with our own dependence on them is at heart a personal question. I hope it does not colour our perceptions of others' choices too deeply.

My question has nothing to do with the above 3 suggestions, nor anything to do with judgement about what is right or wrong or superior with respect to being a pilgrim.

 

[Lmsundaze]

I have to say,if a person decides not to use the internet but then uses someone else's internet connection to gain information, are you really unplugged?

 

[dougfitz]

Not necessarily hypothetical: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ch-limit-just-eight-years-warn-engineers.html

Non-UK residents may not be aware that the Daily Mail is the most reliable source of factual information available

And don't we all love the Malthusian hypotheses of impending doom.

 

[C clearly]

I'm puzzling a little over what hypothetical scenario @jirit has in mind. Why would it be impossible to access the internet while walking the camino? That might have a big effect on my answer. Just three admittedly unlikely scenarios from the top of my head:
(A) Spain has become an isolationist totalitarian regime like North Korea and cut itself off from the world?: then I probably don't want to go there.
(B) There has been some sort of global apocalypse and the internet has ceased to exist?: then I probably have more pressing concerns and urgent priorities than walking across Spain for a month.
(C) The Camino is now controlled and regulated by an omnipotent central authority which vets all potential pilgrims and requires them to make a quasi-monastic vow of digital abstinence before granting them a credencial?: being essentially bloody-minded I'd object to that just as a matter of principle.

With slight apologies for the reductio ad absurdum I think there are trace elements of (C) behind the OP's question. I also think that it relates a little uncomfortably to the never-ending argument about what makes a "real pilgrim". I fear that many of us - and I include myself amongst them - share a collective nostalgia for a romantic vision of the Camino and pilgrimage which probably never existed. My worry is that such a fantasy could very easily drift towards a prescriptive orthodoxy. Is it intrinsically morally and spiritually superior to walk the caminos "unplugged"? I am not convinced that is true. Like it or not the internet and modern technology are facts. Unless the world changes in very troublesome ways then they are here to stay. How we deal with our own dependence on them is at heart a personal question. I hope it does not colour our perceptions of others' choices too deeply.

Exactly what I was puzzling over but couldn't quite express!

But don't EVEN suggest this in certain circles, or you will be accused of the worst crime in the world: "judging." The people doing MY CAMINO cannot stomach anyone not fully wired.

Hmm. I think it just as often works the other way - nontechies "judging" the experience of the techies and the quality of their relationships. Perhaps implicit in some of the current threads.

 

[jirit]

Exactly what I was puzzling over but couldn't quite express!

Hmm. I think it just as often works the other way - nontechies "judging" the experience of the techies and the quality of their relationships. Perhaps implicit in some of the current threads.

I trust after editing my original question you are no longer puzzled. For the record I am a techie and have been for some time.

 

[Albertagirl]

While this is not an issue of the internet, if I could find a BIC phone at 19 euros when I arrive in Europe (Paris, then Pau airport) I would certainly do so. Not to be able to get aid in emergencies. I have my SPOT emergency beacon. But I found myself unable to access accommodation which I had booked in Finisterre last fall, because the only way to get in was to phone; the proprietor was not on site. This was not an albergue, as I did not walk to Finisterre, so could not stay in albergues. Eventually, another resident saw me, on her way out of the building, and phoned the proprietor for me. As technology becomes nearly universal in use, reasonable assumptions are made about the presence of that technology. I am of a traditional degree of competence, and would not panic if I had to search for an alternate place to sleep, or even sleep rough for a night. But I would not be pleased. The proprietor would not be pleased and could probably charge me through my credit card as a "no show." Perhaps I should plan for the possibility that this might happen again. I am becoming a slave to technology, because I cannot travel without it.

 

[Castilian]

Would I walk the camino if there wasn't Internet access available? Yes, of course.

 

[Theatregal]

Absolutely.

 

[MichaelB10398]

The presence or lack of the internet has no impact on any decision I make regarding the Camino. I know that some are very dependent upon the benefits of the internet, but I have not found that appreciation or dependence. I detest a phone and enjoy not having one connected to my hip regardless of how much I am scolded about others liking to get in contact with me at their will. I cannot imagine why I forget my phone so often....but I do nonetheless.

At heart, I guess I am a cranky old soul that still enjoys the peace of quietude. In my mind's eye I envision the placid waters of a deep lake and dislike when the surface waters are disturbed.

 

[cher99840]

Ha! Here I am, the defender of connectedness, who said she didn't want to go anywhere without her smartphone!

It is an odd hypothetical question. One might ask "Would you do X, if you couldn't connect to the internet?" or "Would you walk the camino if you couldn't take a poncho?"

The absence of internet would not be a deciding factor for me. I did many things happily before the internet was invented and would do so in the future too if it were eliminated. However, I have no interest in eschewing the internet on a point of principle, as I enjoy the benefits it brings.

None of the answer choices is quite right for me. I would say "Willing to do so if it weren't available." I would not expect to be panicking.

I agree that there is something missing between 1 and 2. I would pick #1 except I would miss it so that's no go. But #2 "with reservation" doesn't fit either because its availability doesn't enter into the equation. So I guess I'm #1, first sentence only.

 

[C clearly]

And I'd love to hear from whomever voted for number 4. Not so we could gang up and try to change their mind, but I'm genuinely interested to know the reason behind the vote....

I expect that the reason is what has been given - those people have responsibilities that don't permit them to be incommunicado for that period of time.

 

[ratyoke]

And I'd love to hear from whomever voted for number 4. Not so we could gang up and try to change their mind, but I'm genuinely interested to know the reason behind the vote....

I voted for number 4. Now that the internet and smart phones are here there is no going back for me.
Aside from using my phone to keeping in touch with friends and family, these are a few of the other reasons I need my phone:
Having a phone lets me make room reservations easily when I go through the bigger cities I want to stay at for more than one night. I hate planning ahead. So I'm often looking at my options and booking my room when I am arriving in town.
After booking these rooms online I need a way to pay my credit card bill.
I speak very minimal Spanish. Google translate works pretty well for Spanish-English.
I speak Korean, though not fluently. All my Korean study is done on my phone. Podcasts, chatting with friends in Korean, flashcards, reading.
I have some occasional work related things I must respond to.
Map My Run app to track my walking on the Camino.
Weather app to check the weather.
Kindle app for reading.
Replying to posts like this while I lay in bed in Salamanca.

I have traveled before smart phones. But at this point there is no way I would want to go back to that.

 

[Mike Savage]

I walked last year for 40 days, 780 miles, with no phone or internet. I really enjoyed not feeling like I had to keep checking up or checking in. I also carried no map or guide. I enjoyed talking with locals and other pilgrims for news and information.

I did use other people's phones three times to help each of them find a doctor and emergency transportation though.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Not necessarily hypothetical: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ch-limit-just-eight-years-warn-engineers.html

Non-UK residents may not be aware that the Daily Mail is the most reliable source of factual information available

ROFPML

 

[Jeff Crawley]

¡por supuesto!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

And don't we all love the Malthusian hypotheses of impending doom.

Doomed! DOOMED! We're all doomed!

 

[Peregrinopaul]

And I'd love to hear from whomever voted for number 4

OK Viriani. I'll come clean if the other 3 do too!

 

[trecile]

Last year I spent 17 days in Barcelona taking a Spanish course. Having my phone with me enhanced my experience of the city. I never felt lost because I had Google Maps with me, and could always find my way to where I wanted to go. Therefore I felt free to just wander, because I could always find my way back.

 

[AJ]

I'd be OK provided I had my pigeons

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Doomed! DOOMED! We're all doomed!

And we have been doomed ever since the automobile replaced the buggy whip.

 

[Castilian]

I never felt lost because I had Google Maps with me, and could always find my way to where I wanted to go. Therefore I felt free to just wander, because I could always find my way back.

Ok but you missed the joy of getting lost and using the Spanish you were learning to know how to go wherever you wanted to go.

 

[Vicky97]

When I walked the Camino Frances last year I suddenly had a problem on my smartphone and the wifi won't turn on,
the first few days I was really annoyed because of it, but after a few days I started really liking it and I was happy the Camino "gave" me that opportunity!
While a lot of other pilgrims were just scrolling down on their phone I was enjoying the albergue and the Camino itself! And I also loved the way sending texts home is so different from sending mails, in stead of telling them every little thing that happened that day I just texted them every two days or so where I was and what was happening on my Camino!

This year I'm definitely limiting my internet to the most "needed" things (as the weather etc)!

 

[trecile]

And we have been doomed ever since the automobile replaced the buggy whip.

What about that pesky wheel?

 

[gerardcarey]

I once wandered about the world for 6 months without being contacted by family or friends.
They were unable to contact me.
On my sudden and unexpected re-appearance everyone was pleased, tho not overjoyed, to see and talk to me.
It seemed to me that I had disappeared from their existence.
Out of memory.
I had been among their dead.

I learnt two important things.
I'm not that important.
Being dead is ok.
Regards
Gerard

 

[Introibo]

In an eyeblink!

You beat me to it ! Just booked a hotel in Berlin on the strength that it didn't have WiFi.
We'll have to talk to each other and not "our distant friends"

I guess once you've walked it once you know what it's like so you don't feel you need
the security of constantly being in touch. If it's the comfort blanket that's going to
help you on your way, then great.

 

[Bogong]

I trust after editing my original question you are no longer puzzled. For the record I am a techie and have been for some time.

Well Jirit,

Here's the question you left out:

How many carrying an iPhone, pre-booking albergue or hostal accommodation to get a bed, and plugging into the internet, see it as wrong, or beneath contempt, for others to use those other products of modern technology, ie the taxis, buses, cars and trains to do their Caminos their own particular way?

De colores

Bogong(who has to confess, at age 69,using a very basic mobile phone and occasional albergue internet to keep contact with a very worried wife, and adult kids who had seriously explored drawing on their mortgages to travel over to bring my corpse home)

 

[jirit]

Well Jirit,

Here's the question you left out:

How many carrying an iPhone, pre-booking albergue or hostal accommodation to get a bed, and plugging into the internet, see it as wrong, or beneath contempt, for others to use those other products of modern technology, ie the taxis, buses, cars and trains to do their Caminos their own particular way?

De colores

Bogong(who has to confess, at age 69,using a very basic mobile phone and occasional albergue internet to keep contact with a very worried wife, and adult kids who had seriously explored drawing on their mortgages to travel over to bring my corpse home)

It was one of a few questions and thoughts that crossed my mind, but I decided to start with the question I asked.

 

[Dutchwalk53]

I went back and forth between 1 and 2. And then decided 2. I would certainly walk with no internet if that was the only way, but my "reservations' would be that I would like to stay in touch with my kids now and then and visa versa. An occasional phone call would be nice and solve that issue. And for emergencies ????? I guess I would hope that they don't occur. I can certainly do without just browsing the internet, FB and all that stuff.....if needed But hey , it's not needed nowadays so I'm taking advantage of it !!!

 

[VNwalking]

My question has nothing to do with the above 3 suggestions, nor anything to do with judgement about what is right or wrong or superior with respect to being a pilgrim.

The basic question (and the elephant in the living room) seems not about the external why there is no internet in this hypothetical Camino--that's actually irrelevant. But how do we relate to it: do we use it for practical reasons or are we actually addicted to it?

@ratyoke has some very good reasons to stay connected--and I'm glad you replied because I was curious to know what it is about technology that hooks other people (I'm all too aware of my own hooks and and willingly fess up to them):

I voted for number 4. Now that the internet and smart phones are here there is no going back for me.
Aside from using my phone to keeping in touch with friends and family, these are a few of the other reasons I need my phone:
Having a phone lets me make room reservations easily when I go through the bigger cities I want to stay at for more than one night. I hate planning ahead. So I'm often looking at my options and booking my room when I am arriving in town.
After booking these rooms online I need a way to pay my credit card bill.
I speak very minimal Spanish. Google translate works pretty well for Spanish-English.
I speak Korean, though not fluently. All my Korean study is done on my phone. Podcasts, chatting with friends in Korean, flashcards, reading.
I have some occasional work related things I must respond to.
Map My Run app to track my walking on the Camino.
Weather app to check the weather.
Kindle app for reading.
Replying to posts like this while I lay in bed in Salamanca.
I have traveled before smart phones. But at this point there is no way I would want to go back to that.

And regarding this...

nontechies "judging" the experience of the techies and the quality of their relationships. Perhaps implicit in some of the current threads.

I'm not so sure, because it's more nuanced than that. And there's a big difference between 'judging' in the pejorative sense and judgement in the sense of discernment. The 1st is never useful, while the second is essential.
It takes discernment to know if I'm using this medium skillfully or not--to know if (honestly) I'm acting like an addict or not. Personally, while I find the technology useful I really don't want to become its slave. That's why I use the word 'hook' above...

I use technology a lot. So there's no finger pointing here, unless I'm pointing at myself.
At the same time I don't think there's anything wrong with describing things as I see them. If I say 'the sky is blue,' that's not a judgement. And if I perceive people around me are disconnected and I say that (owning the fact that it is my perception rather than absolute truth, because how would I know about someone else's heart?)--that's not a judgement either. I'm just calling it as I see it. If the word 'disconnection' feels negative...well, it is negative: neither useful nor socially skillful. And that's just the way it is.
All that said, I know from face to face experience that you're not like that, @C clearly--not at all.
But I think some people are. And I'll own that opinion without apology.

I learnt two important things.
I'm not that important.
Being dead is ok

Thanks Gerard. This conversation is a bit serious. it needed that.

 

[Bogong]

It was one of a few questions and thoughts that crossed my mind, but I decided to start with the question I asked.

And I thought my bizarre sense of humour and mischief making was unique!

De Colores

Bogong

 

[C clearly]

And there's a big difference between 'judging' in the pejorative sense and judgement in the sense of discernment. The 1st is never useful, while the second is essential.

I completely agree with this. I hate discussions of how we shouldn't be judgemental, probably because I have often been accused of it, often correctly. However, I was bothered by something you said on a different thread, which I'll quote over here:

"when people are together and on their devices--there is a kind of absence, because each person is someplace else, communicating with someone else. If this happens over a meal, they're missing the meal and missing the occasion to be with each other here and now... But I think it's sad, for many reasons."

I thought you were drawing conclusions about their relationship ("judging"? ?) with very flimsy evidence. That you should feel sad, was perplexing. You must be thinking their experience is inferior to some standard. As you know, there is no need to feel sad for me!

So, @Viranani , next spring on some obscure route!

 

[Peregrinopaul]

I find it impossible to believe that the 72% who voted No1 are ALL single people with no family who might worry about them while they disappear off the radar for a month. Come on folks!
I'm still trying to figure out who the other 3 realists are.

 

[C clearly]

I find it impossible to believe that the 72% who voted No1 are ALL single people with no family who might worry about them while they disappear off the radar for a month. Come on folks!
I'm still trying to figure out who the other 3 realists are.

Well, no one said they had to disappear off the radar. They will all be having meaningful relationships with each other in the line-up at the post office or telephone booth.

 

[dougfitz]

Well, no one said they had to disappear off the radar. They will all be having meaningful relationships with each other in the line-up at the post office or telephone booth.

I am now even more perplexed by what the question really is. The presence of a telephone service implies to me that some form of internet could be accessed. Using that communications channel for a voice conversation is just one of the available options.

Internet was available in many albergues in 2010, but access was limited to the one or two PCs that were available unless one was in a town with an internet cafe. When I walked in 2014, wifi was commonly available. That and smartphones had made a substantial difference to the way people were able to communicate with their families, and how they interacted with each other. On the CF today I have yet to go a day without going online in some form or other to let my family and friends know where I am, check my email, check this forum, etc.

None of that is necessarily essential. I walked across Norway on St Olavs Way in 2012, and there were many days without even a basic telephone service - landline or mobile.

So I think I fit in category 4. I could accept being out of touch for a day or so, and have done so in the past. I could accept being without the feature rich application environment we have today for several days or maybe even a couple of weeks. I have also done that in the past. Could I do this without a technology like wifi bringing the internet into my hand for a month or more - I think I could do that, but that doesn't seem to be the question.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Some background on what prompted my brusque post above. Just after I arrived in Santiago on my 2015 Camino, and with 3 weeks to go remaining before my scheduled departure, I had to fly back to Australia, at a moments notice, to deal with a crisis back home. The ease with which I was able to arrange this, thanks to the internet, will be apparent to all. Sure, there are 20th century ways of dealing with problems like that, but had I been restricted in that way, I am certain that I would have arrived back too late. I think it would be irresponsible of me to consider such a trip without that back-up. So I am not going to indulge in wishful thinking.
For the record. I never use the internet, sitting in albergues or bars, surfing. I use it solely for family contact.

 

[long trails]

I couldn't because I run my business from my smartphone and need internet access.

Pretty much every pilgrim I have seen in the last two weeks has a smartphone with them.

Not sure this is ecen worthy of discussion? Wifi is available everywhere.

It's 2016 and the world is moving on.

 

[VNwalking]

I find it impossible to believe that the 72% who voted No1 are ALL single people with no family who might worry about them while they disappear off the radar for a month. Come on folks

I was just about to reply to this, Paul, so thank you for that clarification.
Gerard disappears, I do too. But not everyone can or wants to.

That you should feel sad, was perplexing. You must be thinking their experience is inferior to some standard.

Not really, as you correctly surmise. What makes me feel sad is not so much about the relationship but the fact that people can sit together but not be together because they're so into another world that comes through the internet. Of course this might be a temporary aberration and who knows what the rest of their lives are like?

One thing I find interesting is that several people (here and in the other thread running right now about this) have mentioned the relief they feel when they give some space from the internet. That's certainly my experience.

So, @Viranani , next spring on some obscure route!

You bet, Claire! April? May-June? I don't know when or where yet! I hope to carve out a whole month. You??

 

[domigee]

I find it impossible to believe that the 72% who voted No1 are ALL single people with no family who might worry about them while they disappear off the radar for a month. Come on folks!.

You can keep in touch with family by...phone. No need for Internet connection?

 

[dougfitz]

You can keep in touch with family by...phone. No need for Internet connection?

And let me tell you how much easier that keeping in touch is using an asynchronous (internet) technique like email, chat or FB when your family is in Australia and there are major time zone differences.

 

[C clearly]

I am almost ready to call a truce on this subject.

One thing I find interesting is that several people (here and in the other thread running right now about this) have mentioned the relief they feel when they give some space from the internet.

Perhaps I have never been under the same pressure from the internet. Even before I retired, I managed to avoid having a work phone so I've mostly used it for my own pleasure and convenience. This forum is my biggest vice, at least in regards to the internet.

April? May-June? I don't know when or where yet! I hope to carve out a whole month. You??

I was thinking March-April, maybe starting in the south. However, it is always possible that a family get-together (elsewhere) will be organized, and that would take precedence.

 

[Icacos]

.......and there are major time zone differences.

All the more reason to go off the grid.

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

As technology becomes nearly universal in use, reasonable assumptions are made about the presence of that technology.

Pretty much every pilgrim I have seen in the last two weeks has a smartphone with them.

Not sure this is ecen worthy of discussion? Wifi is available everywhere.

It's 2016 and the world is moving on.

Having trekked and survived in the BC World (before computers & calculators ), option 1 isn't an issue for me. However, it would take a lot of pre-organising at home and adapting along the Way. Business is increasingly tailored towards the use of the internet and smartphone technology. Just try banking for a week without online access to see how different and time consuming it can be.

Both @Albertagirl and @Bogong have a very good point. The World has moved on whether we like it or not. In May 2011 the United Nations report argued that disconnecting individuals from the Internet is a violation of human rights and goes against international law. "The Special Rapporteur underscores the unique and transformative nature of the Internet not only to enable individuals to exercise their right to freedom of opinion and expression," according to the report's summary, "but also a range of other human rights, and to promote the progress of society as a whole."

Even Maslow's hierarchy of needs has undergone an update

 

[domigee]

And let me tell you how much easier that keeping in touch is using an asynchronous (internet) technique like email, chat or FB when your family is in Australia and there are major time zone differences.

Fair point! (I should have remembered being frequently woken up at 3am when living in N-Z by calls from the UK ...)

Ok, we all agree the Internet is more convenient?
BUT I still stick with my answer to the OP's question regarding walking the Camino without Internet.

 

[VNwalking]

Ok, we all agree the Internet is more convenient?
BUT I still stick with my answer to the OP's question regarding walking the Camino without Internet.

Yes and yes.
I think there's a similar detente on the other thread too...

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

Ok, we all agree the Internet is more convenient?

Not so much convenient as increasingly the preferred way of doing any business so that using alternate methods has become intentionally more difficult and time consuming as resources are increasingly moved away towards an online presence.

By the next Holy Year it may well become the norm to book albergue beds online. They are already Camino websites (e.g. Hiking the Camino) with several types of accommodation listings and private albergues show online booking where available.

Walking a 'totally unconnected' Camino may also be offered as an option much as going on a retreat nowadays.

 

[Bradypus]

You bet, Claire! April? May-June? I don't know when or where yet! I hope to carve out a whole month. You??

A suggestion - just because I loved it. Sundsvall to Trondheim along the St Olavsleden in May. About 580km. I walked for 17 days and met precisely 3 other pilgrims (and two of those were a couple ). And you are out of mobile phone reach for part of the way too if that really appeals to you.

 

[Tia Valeria]

We agreed with our family beforehand that 'no news is good news' and that we would text occasionally (if we had a good signal) and send one or two postcards. It works for us and being free of the internet for nearly 5 weeks was bliss. We have to say that some of the family go off to places like the Kalahari - with even less scope for contact.

 

[Castilian]

Not sure this is ecen worthy of discussion? Wifi is available everywhere.

It's 2016 and the world is moving on.

Cars and other types of transport are available everywhere too. They've been available for (way) more time than the Internet but some people keep making the Camino on foot...

To make the Camino on foot is a free-will choice as well as to make the Camino without accessing to Internet is/would be a free-will choice or as well as to make the Camino without entering in a bar is/would be a free-will choice as well as many other free-will choices available to make the Camino as you want.

 

[dougfitz]

All the more reason to go off the grid.

All the more reason to be using it from my perspective. It's just another tool in one's toolset. It's not the internet that is the issue to me, but whether I need or want to do the things that it might allow me to do.

 

[Terrri]

Three years ago I walked for two weeks with my daughter. We didn't bring any electronics but we each brought a camera. I used the internet in hostels or locutorios to email my husband but could have easily phoned him instead. Email was more convenient given the time difference between BC and Spain.

I injured my foot and my daughter went ahead with the intent that we would email each other our whereabouts and meet-up in a few days. My daughter forgot her email password but thru word of mouth from other pilgrims we met up again in Burgos. I talked with some pilgrims in the town I stayed behind in and told them about our situation. A day or so later those pilgrims met up with my daughter and she told them the same story and they realized we were "together". A couple of days later I stopped for breakfast in Montes de Oca hoping to see my daughter among the pilgrims walking past and after an hour hopped the bus to Burgos. The next day in Burgos I walked to the albergue and sitting outside were the pilgrims I had told my story to a few days prior and they told me that my daughter was staying in this albergue. After leaving a note at the front desk my daughter met me at the hotel I was staying in. We were so glad old fashioned communication still worked!

While we had the means to communicate thru internet it didn't work for us!

I did appreciate the internet when the doctor I saw used google translate so we could communicate.

My husband and I are going back in the fall to walk for a couple of weeks and I will be bringing something with me but not sure what just yet. I don't own a cell phone. Having to walk to find a locutorio caused my foot to take longer to heal and I possibly could have continued the camino rather than having to stop.

A question that came to mind was would we walk the camino if we didn't have the ability to research it on the internet?

 

[Albertagirl]

A question that came to mind was would we walk the camino if we didn't have the ability to research it on the internet?

@Terrri:
Many persons on this forum have credited "that movie" (The Way) with the rise in popularity of the camino frances. But I suppose that in this day of the internet this and other internet forums are spreading the news about the camino as well.

 

[jaws101]

I've recently returned from Peru where I walked the Inca Trail. Instead if the normal 4 day route I did a 7 day trek, the first 4 days were totally remote with no access to any contact with the outside world. In an emergency we would have to take care of ourselves and we had a horse for our use as a rescue vehicle. Once we were on the trek none of us missed phones or internet. Granted this was only for a short time but it was refreshing. The handler of the rescue horse, a fifteen year old Peruvian boy, didn't know how to use a phone to take a photo for us! There are still places in the world where this technology is of no interest to some of the inhabitants.

 

[VNwalking]

There are still places in the world where this technology is of no interest to some of the inhabitants.

Indeed.
Long may that continue.

 

[dougfitz]

Indeed.
Long may that continue.

This seems a rather narrow view. Are you suggesting that benefits of the technological advances developed countries enjoy should be denied to people who currently don't have them?

 

[Albertagirl]

Indeed.
Long may that continue.

@Viranani:
One of the major improvements in the lives of women in developing countries has come about through the use of cell phones. This has made it possible for a woman to rent telephone use to neighbours who have never had access before. Taking produce and animal products to market can be better scheduled and improve profits. Combined with small loans to women, this has improved the lives of many women and children coming from backgrounds of extreme poverty.
I am content to be offline in the mountains and perhaps the lack of technology can be justified in recreation areas, where the cost of installing cell towers may be prohibitive. But I could now buy a satellite telephone and a service contract if I wished to make such an investment. I am not sure that it is an advantage to the local people of poorer communities if they live in an area of no satellite reception.

 

[VNwalking]

Doug, we probably see the world differently, so I don't want to argue.
But I will just say that I don't think this technology is necessarily an 'advance.' And if you haven't experienced such wonderful places as @jaws101 describes, and the people and cultures in them, I can't explain. Except to say that in my (extensive) experience they're a lot less neurotic--and yes, happier--than we are. In spite of immense difficulties...that I and many others do as much as we can to mitigate.

 

[VNwalking]

@Viranani:
One of the major improvements in the lives of women in developing countries has come about through the use of cell phones. This has made it possible for a woman to rent telephone use to neighbours who have never had access before. Taking produce and animal products to market can be better scheduled and improve profits. Combined with small loans to women, this has improved the lives of many women and children coming from backgrounds of extreme poverty.

Yes, I know this from my own experience, Albertagirl. I live much of my life in such a place so know the benefits very well, and they can be lifesaving. But it's a knife that cuts both ways. Because not all that comes with such technology is good. The cost--individually and culturally--can be high.
If I were to go into the details, which I could at great length, we'd be way off topic and straying into politics. So I won't. PM me if you want and we can continue there...happy to do so!
Wishing you a wonderful walk, with or without the internet!

 

[SYates]

Yes, I would, it would just take a bit of preparation in order that I still have an income when I come back as I earn my living as an "online freelancer" but certainly doable. Buen Camino, SY

 

[dougfitz]

Doug, we probably see the world differently, so I don't want to argue.
But I will just say that I don't think this technology is necessarily an 'advance.' And if you haven't experienced such wonderful places as @jaws101 describes, and the people and cultures in them, I can't explain. Except to say that in my (extensive) experience they're a lot less neurotic--and yes, happier--than we are. In spite of immense difficulties...that I and many others do as much as we can to mitigate.

I have only travelled to six of the seven continents so far, and still have many countries to see, but I keep trying to see more of this world.

My view is that perhaps we should let those who might benefit from lower infant mortality, improved maternal health or any of the other six millennium development goals decide what technologies to implement. We can make sure we are honest and transparent about the issues they might have caused in our societies. But suggesting they shouldn't just so they can appear to you to be less neurotic is not an appealing argument to me.

 

[VNwalking]

My view is that perhaps we should let those who might benefit from lower infant mortality, improved maternal health or any of the other six millennium development goals decide what technologies to implement.

And that's what's happening, Doug. We're just talking here about the Camino.

 

[Albertagirl]

Yes, I know this from my own experience, Albertagirl. I live much of my life in such a place so know the benefits very well, and they can be lifesaving. But it's a knife that cuts both ways. Because not all that comes with such technology is good. The cost--individually and culturally--can be high.
If I were to go into the details, which I could at great length, we'd be way off topic and straying into politics. So I won't. PM me if you want and we can continue there...happy to do so!
Wishing you a wonderful walk, with or without the internet!

@Viranani:
It seems to me that the purpose of this thread is to discuss "the cost--individually and culturally" of the use of internet technology. We decide for ourselves what technology we wish to use and in what contexts. Persons living in developing economies can decide for themselves on their use of such technology. jaws 101 and yourself introduced this subject in posts 73 and 74.

 

[dougfitz]

And that's what's happening, Doug. We're just talking here about the Camino.

I'm sorry, but if I recall it accurately, your comment was a response to this: "a fifteen year old Peruvian boy, didn't know how to use a phone to take a photo for us! There are still places in the world where this technology is of no interest to some of the inhabitants." and you suggested "Long may that continue."

That doesn't appear to me to be talking about the Camino .

 

[Christian Hiriart]

With bills to pay and family and friends that worry about me back home when I’m away, I would take advantage of technology every way I can. Is actually this Technology that allows most of us to be free to go away and continue to run our lives at home via wifi, impressive when you think of it. I'm able to enjoy Paris or Rome and still pay my electricity bill in Ontario Canada while having some wine and tapas in Madrid. I say life is good, love the ability to be connected. Having said that, I would say I’m a solid 4…

 

[VNwalking]

I'm sorry, but if I recall it accurately, your comment was a response to this: "a fifteen year old Peruvian boy, didn't know how to use a phone to take a photo for us! There are still places in the world where this technology is of no interest to some of the inhabitants." and you suggested "Long may that continue."

That doesn't appear to me to be talking about the Camino .

@Viranani:
It seems to me that the purpose of this thread is to discuss "the cost--individually and culturally" of the use of internet technology. We decide for ourselves what technology we wish to use and in what contexts. Persons living in developing economies can decide for themselves on their use of such technology.

Indeed, Albertagirl. We agree entirely--that's what I said.

jaws 101 and yourself introduced this subject in posts 73 and 74.

Jaws101 said something, I agreed...and then an argument ensued.
My comment to Doug was an attempt to bring the thread back on track, but he seems to still want to talk about something that's actually tangential to the thread. I happen to disagree with him about painting such a black and white picture (based, I might say, on deep experience of the complexities of this whole issue in 2 developing countries, rather than just 'traveling') but, respectfully, think it's a pointless waste of time to argue about it further here because he has his view and I have mine.And it's irrelevant to the Camino
So you're both quite welcome to send me a PM about this but please can we re-direct the conversation back to the Camino?

 

[Robo]

Of course I would still walk without the Internet.
Walking 'with' the Internet merely makes things easier. Making bookings, doing banking etc.
It's a basic tool these days.

I would walk with a basic phone still. For personal safety and so others at home could contact me in emergency. Would probably have a weekly call home to check in....

 

[cher99840]

adult kids who had seriously explored drawing on their mortgages to travel over to bring my corpse home)

Your comment made me smile. My adult son upon learning that I planned to walk said, "Mom, I'm not going over to retrieve your body."

 

[dougfitz]

My comment to Doug was an attempt to bring the thread back on track, but he seems to still want to talk about something that's actually tangential to the thread.

Not really. I was merely pointing out that you had taken the thread off-topic and were trying to limit the discussion on that. It appeared to me the rhetorical equivalent of taking your ball away from the playground!

As for the main discussion, my own view is that discussing the internet as if it was some monolithic device is pretty pointless. The question is the logical equivalent of asking if one would walk if there were no bars at which to eat. Just as bars are only one way of achieving an outcome, and can vary widely in the types of food, styles of service, etc, so it is with the internet. The subject of delivery mechanisms appears to me quite a seperate issue from application functionality and information content, yet they have all been lumped into one amorphous mass as if they could be discussed sensibly that way. Clearly, I don't think they can be, so I will go back to watching with morbid curiosity as you try.

 

[jirit]

I once wandered about the world for 6 months without being contacted by family or friends.
They were unable to contact me.
On my sudden and unexpected re-appearance everyone was pleased, if not overjoyed, to see and talk to me.
It seemed to me that I had disappeared from their existence.
Out of memory.
I had been among their dead.

I learnt two important things.
I'm not that important.
Being dead is ok.
Regards
Gerard

Quite the range of responses, many I never had expected, though I started to conclude initially that asking the question might be like tossing a dog into a room full of cats. Some cats would simply ignore the dog, maybe wondering why it was even there, while others would be rightly and strongly unsettled by its presence.

Still others might not know what to make of it all, the dog that it.

I guess the same might be said about the Internet and the Camino — plenty of strong opinions, and reactions, and general indifference by some.

The good news so far that there has been no blood shed. And my curiosity has been satisfied for now.

Best of all I really enjoyed Gerard's two lessons of life — I am not that important and being dead is okay.

Cheers

 

[domigee]

And you Jirit, would you?

 

[VNwalking]

You beat me to it, Domigee!

Best of all I really enjoyed Gerard's two lessons of life — I am not that important and being dead is okay.

This is one of Gerard's all-time best lines. Almost a book title.

A suggestion - just because I loved it. Sundsvall to Trondheim along the St Olavsleden in May. About 580km. I walked for 17 days and met precisely 3 other pilgrims (and two of those were a couple ). And you are out of mobile phone reach for part of the way too if that really appeals to you.

This got lost in the fray, Bradypus...I appreciate the suggestion!And. Even if I were to run out of ways to Santiago...I tend to walk in March.
Brrrrr.

 

[Bradypus]

This got lost in the fray, Bradypus...I appreciate the suggestion!And. Even if I were to run out of ways to Santiago...I tend to walk in March.
Brrrrr.

The post I was responding to mentioned May-June so the idea came to mind! Still quite a lot of Brrrr on the Olavsleden even in May Hope you enjoy sunshine and warmth wherever you go!

 

[VNwalking]

Hope you enjoy sunshine and warmth wherever you go!

Thanks, Bradypus...a nice wish for all of us!

 

[jirit]

And you Jirit, would you?

I have walked six times and almost each time I have had some form of Internet access ( except in Austria ) though never using a mobile phone ( don't have one, and even today I never have had much use for one ). I will admit that sometimes I found having access to the Internet a benefit, and even a neccessity, especially for the latter few walks, while other times, it was a form of obligation, a nuance, again mostly for the first few walks.

So next time if I walk again especially the frances route, I would go it alone.

 

[long trails]

I am sure the pilgrims of 900 years ago used all available tools at the time.

The internet is just another tool.

 

[jirit]

I am sure the pilgrims of 900 years ago used all available tools at the time.

The internet is just another tool.

There was probably a surge of pilgrims doing the camino after 1440 - the year the printing press was developed.

This was probably followed by numerous discussions about the merits of paper bound books vs rolled cloth scriptures as suitable guidebooks

 

[vlebe]

Im a BIG supporter of No technology on the camino!

Its just invigorating and that just really change you mindset to be offline as much as you can...

IMHO the experiences brought by being offline in this sort of Journey overcome any of the "all my god I need to send news to my family everyday" hysteria!

Dont get me wrong people... I dont mean to offend anyone who does think this is quite important on the Camino.

I understand that the internet does make this possible nowadays only because now people can stay online with their jobs and family.

I, myself, will be starting another camino in november. At this time I`ll bring with me a small PC computer as during the 40 days I plan to be "off" my office, I plan to at least 15 of those days to work a little bit from the ALbergues during the evenings. Internet made it possible for me to be once again part of the camino, so... Hands down technology!

My beef is that the first 2 or 3 times I walked the Camino, the vibe and energy was quite different in the albergues. People did not have smartphones to be talking to their friends back home, or updating pictures to facebook or instagram. Pilgrims would sit down to have dinner together and they would not have any other alternative. Conversations were more deep and frequent... Even when people could not talk other languages conversation would flow... With hands, eyes, heart and soul... It was beautiful and meaningful.

Last time I walked the Camino Frances in 2013, I have to be honest that I felt a bit depressed seeing pilgrims anxious to get to the albergues to connect their phones and tablets... It was a sad picture to see those groups of pilgrims, most of them with their faces buried in their phones and tablets...

I understand you bringing one smartphone and sending news to your family once every 3 or 4 days... But I trully dont get when people act as they MUST send news everyday, and they must see the facebook or instagram feed ... Anyways... this is just me... Maybe Im just too used to be off and away for long periods of time. In expeditions in the Andes, Alaska and Himalayas It was not uncommon for me to not send any news whatsoever for 10 days or so.

When I walked from Le Puy to Finisterra, during the almost 80 days I as off I called my family probably 03 times to say all was well!

Anyways... This is a very personal thing... I`m just pretty sure the experience is much deeper and meaningful when you make the effort not to be "linked" to your "real" world that much...

If you Must talk to your family daily, ok... Internet is a must for your camino... If they understand you are going to send news every 4 or 7 days only... Then you dont even need to bother bringing a smartphone..Bring an old dumbphone and Use the coin operate computers weakly to send news back home...

:-D

Buen Camino Dear friends... being online or offline!!!




Ultreya!

 

[LesBrass]

Im a BIG supporter of No technology on the camino!

Just wondering if you really mean 'no technology' ... None at all?

 

[VNwalking]

Last time I walked the Camino Frances in 2013, I have to be honest that I felt a bit depressed seeing pilgrims anxious to get to the albergues to connect their phones and tablets... It was a sad picture to see those groups of pilgrims, most of them with their faces buried in their phones and tablets...

vlebe, that has been my experience as well--which is why I brought up the subject here:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...o-you-deal-with-technology.41158/#post-418830
I'm at ease with a mix of quiet and occasional connectedness--and miss the long and deep conversations sometimes.
Someone said something to the effect of "Well, you're free to go out and talk to others...," but that's missing the point.
Something essential is lost and that's sad. I think.
Obviously others have very different opinions.

 

[Robo]

Im a BIG supporter of No technology on the camino! ...........................

I, myself, will be starting another camino in november. At this time I`ll bring with me a small PC computer as during the 40 days I plan to be "off" my office, I plan to at least 15 of those days to work a little bit from the ALbergues during the evenings. Internet made it possible for me to be once again part of the camino, so... Hands down technology! .............................

Last time I walked the Camino Frances in 2013, I have to be honest that I felt a bit depressed seeing pilgrims anxious to get to the albergues to connect their phones and tablets...

Hmmm. Not sure if this is a vote for.............or against technology?