who makes up these rules about the Compostela?

Gilespenn · Jul 24, 2012

Hello everyone,

The other day, on another thread, Johnny Walker of the Compostela office in Santiago said: "Just in the last few days we have had more pilgrims than usual coming to the Pilgrims Office who have not walked the last 100 kms into Santiago and therefore do not qualify for either a Compostela or a Certificate of Welcome."

So I have a few questions:
1. Who makes up these rules? (be honest, now)
2. If someone walked from Moscow or London or Paris or Rome and they ran out of time and took a bus for the last 50 or 100 K, would they get a Compostela? Or a "Certificate of Welcome"?
3. And, of course, the ultimate question: except for vanity, why should any peregrino really care?

In His Name, who was in the desert for 40 days and didn't get a Compostela or even a Certificate,
Giles

miguel_gp · Jul 25, 2012

Gilespenn said:
Hello everyone,

The other day, on another thread, Johnny Walker of the Compostela office in Santiago said: "Just in the last few days we have had more pilgrims than usual coming to the Pilgrims Office who have not walked the last 100 kms into Santiago and therefore do not qualify for either a Compostela or a Certificate of Welcome."

So I have a few questions:
1. Who makes up these rules? (be honest, now)
see the Compostela Section of the Pilgrim Office Website for an explanation
2. If someone walked from Moscow or London or Paris or Rome and they ran out of time and took a bus for the last 50 or 100 K, would they get a Compostela? Or a "Certificate of Welcome"?
I believe Johnnie already answered this in the thread that you refer to above. They would not qualify for the Compostela having not walked at least the last 100km into Santiago. If this was due to injury or ill-health then the member of staff in the office may assess the merits of the case with the individual but I don't believe that simply running out of time would be considered, although I'm sure Johnnie will clarify if needs be
3. And, of course, the ultimate question: except for vanity, why should any peregrino really care?
Because they are entitled to, because they do and because they can.

In His Name, who was in the desert for 40 days and didn't get a Compostela or even a Certificate,
Giles

Deleted member 3000 · Jul 25, 2012

why should any peregrino really care?

After wandering the shops of Santiago for two days for souvenirs, I decided that the Compostela would be the best one.

sulu · Jul 25, 2012

After wandering the shops of Santiago for two days for souvenirs, I decided that the Compostela would be the best one.

Like Though the credential is pretty good too, not to mention the memories and the sense of acheivement.

Priscillian · Jul 25, 2012

Deleted by Priscillian because she has "serialised" it below...
Hope this serves to clarift the question as it is a very important one.
So is the history of the Camino and so few people really know much more than their guidebooks claim.

Priscillian · Jul 25, 2012

The above is very long reply and I am going to try to break up the post into three or four and then delete this one.
Dan Brown and short chapters and things...
T

Priscillian · Jul 25, 2012

(as promised, and PINGHansen I do SO agree: "LIKE")
Priscillian on 25 Jul 2012, 13:08

I've been thinking quite a bit about this "Compostela thing"´and I think the problem is that pilgrim people tend to think of it as somehow a "certificate of completion" when in fact - as it is given today - it is not. Many people believe that the Camino does NOT end in Santiago (as the church wishes you to believe) but that it continues to the coast, to Fisterre or Muxia. In this way it follows the camino de las estrellas, or the route of the Milky Way as trodden since before time and distance took on numerical meanings.
So, what you get in S de C at the (Church run) pilgrim´s office is a certificate to say that you have walked in Galicia for (the last)100 klms from any direction (though from Fisterre or Muxia doesn't quite qualify even though it is one of the oldest - by sea - routes from Ponte do Porto, which is near The Little Fox House). There is nothing truly "traditional" in this 100/200 thing in as much as the original Compostela was introduced in the 13th century for pilgrims to prove that they had arrived in (Santiago de) Compostela as the idea of buying shells at the Puerta Francigena proved unworkable. encouraging people to wealk to the (Pagan) coast was put a stop to ASAP, but the trandition remained in people´s minds. The shells were far older and the idea of lots of forgeries oif Compostelas took place anyway and you can bet there were plenty of cheaters then too! It was often done that a proxy made the camino for you if you could afford it! (Entrepreneurs and tour guides: new idea???)

Priscillian · Jul 25, 2012

In the 16th century the hostal de los Reyes Catolicos was established to take care of pilgrims and again, some sort of justificante was needed. It was, in fact, a certificate of completion which granted certain indulgences, spiritual and otherwise, to those who had walked the Camino NOT the last 100, 200 or whatever... It simply entitled pilgrims to three days of free lodging and food, a tradition carried on to a much lesser extent by the free meals given to the first 10 pilgrims at the Hostal today, a place very few of us could even afford a meal in let alone stay the night! If you are lucky enough to qualify, you eat in the worker's dining room.
Times change...
But back to the original question: it is the Cathedral which has established this 100 klm, 200 klm rule, and this in fairly recent times with the onset of what I have reluctantly and cynically come to call "Camino Tourism" (my daughter, herself a two time pilgrim and even more cynical than her mom, cites what she refers to as "too many Glastonbury pilgrims"), which, in itself is a bit of a joke when you consider the number of pilgrims who make the last 100 klms and insist on their Compostela and who say they have walked for truly religious reasons. At least now the word "spiritual" has a category of its own where before it was used to - sorry purists - pad the startistics, i.e. 93% of pilgrims walking to Santiago do so for Religious reasons. Say you walked for historical/cultural reasons and you ain´t gonna be gievn a Compostela but something much les...um..valuable? Does it make any difference, really, to your Camino? Most people would say that yes, it does. (That´s just the nature of us fallible human beings: bin there, dun that, got the T shirt! T)

Priscillian · Jul 25, 2012

(sorry if this seems a lot of posts one after the other but the history of the Camino is sort of my...um...job)
Many Spanish people (and no doubt others too) put the Compostela on their resume/CV. In these times of incredibly high unemployment, walking a Catholic pilgrimage might clinch your job interview, whereas a certificate to say you walked for cultural reasons might not.
And BTW, stats show that 93% of pilgrims who start in the Pyrenees finish in Fisterra/and or Muxia. Most are not from Spain and you won´t find the Pilgrim´s Offoice publishing those statistics.
We all want our Compostela, but the Fisterrana is more beautiful, and the Muxiana more rare and in this writer´s opinion, between the Xunta and their promotion of tourism at any cost (and God knows this county and province sure do need it), and the Cathedral and the somewhat arbitrary "get the Compostela" distance mentality these two have fostered (why not from O Cebrero?), this approach to the Camino may be successful in a certain way, but ultimately may destroy its historical and spiritual authenticy.
Let´s hope not...

Priscillian · Jul 25, 2012

(4 of 4 from edited/deleted long post above)
(Now you know why I don't "Tweet"!)

Finally, the Camino (de Sant Iago) as you know (of) it didn´t begin until the early to mid 12th century and was the brainchild of Diego Gelmirez and his spin doctors! You couldn´t go to Jerusalem, and why not an alternative to Rome where St Peter was supposed to be buried (no proof their either) and why is the church of St Paul "ouside the walls? That´s another story!) Before that a few people may have wandered into Compostela looking for the rumoured St James´relics (Charlesmagne is highly unlikely but Al Mansur sure did, and burned the city down when he didn't find them!), but as a phenomenon this is 900 years old, NOT 1200 years old. The first archbishop knew what exactly what he was doing to bring money and prestige to his city, and not least, himself (he stole a few more saints´bones from Braga just to be on the safe side - great story!) but even he took 20 years to convince Rome that Compostela really held the relics of St. James (1122), and when he finally did it it was because he had what we in Spain call "enchufe": he knew the Pope´s brother and his niece!

Deleted member 3000 · Jul 25, 2012

Many people believe that the Camino does NOT end in Santiago

"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." Anatole France [That is meant as a jocular poke; no actual insult intended. ]

The pilgrimage ends at the alleged remains of St. James. Many would alter that definition, but it is a fact, not an opinion. A camino can go anywhere it wants, and Fisterra and Muxia are as good as the next. However, the complete absence of infrastructure until recent years indicates that they never have been a major destinations.

Some office de turisme may wish them to be the destination of choice, but they are not part of the Camino de Santiago, which ends at the cathedral, and likely the bones of Priscillian.

is a certificate to say that you have walked in Galicia for (the last)100 klms

That is a spin on the requirement for getting it. Here is The Compostela from the organization that issues it:

From the earliest days of the pilgrimage there was a desire for the completion of the journey to be recognised in some way. Pilgrims used the scallop shell as a symbol of their arrival at the Tomb of St James. However this simple practice was easily debased. Vendors started to sell shells to pilgrims as they entered the city. Due to the prevalence of fraudulent practices the Church had to impose the penalty of excommunication on the perpetrators. From the 13th century onwards documents called “evidential letters” were used as a more effective way of recording a completed pilgrimage. These are the direct roots of the Compostela.

The Compostela was an important and useful document for pilgrims. In the 16th century the Catholic Monarchs constituted the Foundation of the Royal Hospital and ordered the construction of a hospital for pilgrims in Santiago. This was housed in the building now occupied by the Hotel Hostal de los Reyes Católicos . On presentation of their Compostela pilgrims were allowed to stay in the hospital for three days. The hospital looked after pilgrims’ health needs and it became the most important hospital in Galicia. Later in its history it became the centre of the faculty of Medicine of the University of Santiago de Compostela. In 1954 it was converted to a state run Parador hotel. However the hotel continues the tradition of pilgrim hospitality by providing free meals for three days to 10 pilgrims on production of the Compostela.

In the 20th century the growth of pilgrims arriving in Santiago by vehicular transport gave rise to a concern that the aspects of effort and sacrifice previously characteristic of the pilgrimage may be lost or diminished. It was also the case that there was a growth in certificates issued by other bodies which sought to imitate the traditional Compostela. Therefore the Cathedral of Santiago decided that to gain a Compostela a pilgrim had to provide evidence on a credencial that they had walked or travelled on horseback at least the last 100kms of their journey to Santiago and, if travelling by bicycle, the last 200kms. That rule still stands today.

To be awarded the Compostela:

You need to have made the pilgrimage for religious reasons or for a similar motivation such as a vow.
You need to have walked or travelled on horseback at least the last 100kms, or cycled the last 200kms, to arrive at the tomb of the Apostle in the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela.
You should collect at least two sellos (stamps) each day on your credencial. This will usually be where you sleep and one other place such as a Church, ayuntamiento, café etc. You must ensure that you do this at least in the last 100 kms from the Cathedral of Santiago if you are walking or on horseback and 200 kms if you are travelling by bicycle.

You may walk the Camino in stages: however if you are walking the last 100kms, or cycling the last 200kms, in stages you must obtain a sello with the date in the place you stopped and obtain another sello with the date from the same place on the day you start again.

Children walking the Camino: Children who have made the pilgrimage with parents, or in a group, and who have an understanding of the religious and spiritual nature of the Camino may also receive a Compostela. However if they are not yet old enough a certificate can be provided which bears the child’s name. In the case of very young children their names can be inscribed on the Compostela of the accompanying adult. If you have any questions about this please ask in the Pilgrims’ Office.

The text of the Compostela

The text of the Compostela is written in Latin and it is the tradition of the Pilgrims’ Office to write the pilgrim’s name in Latin. The translated text is as follows:

“The Chapter of this Holy Apostolic Metropolitan Cathedral of Saint James, custodian of the seal of Saint James’ Altar, to all faithful and pilgrims who come from everywhere over the world as an act of devotion, under vow or promise to the Apostle’s Tomb, our Patron and Protector of Spain, witnesses in the sight of all who read this document, that: Mr/Mrs/Ms…………………has visited devoutly this Sacred Church in a religious sense (pietatis causa).

Witness whereof I hand this document over to him, authenticated by the seal of this Sacred Church.

Given in Saint James of Compostela on the (day) …… (month) …… A.D. ……”

To those that want it to be something else, I assert that the issuer gets the say, though everyone can have an opinion on interpreting the requirements that have been established. We each get our own opinion, but we don't each get our own facts.

JohnnieWalker · Jul 25, 2012

Priscillian said:
So, what you get in S de C at the (Church run) pilgrim´s office is a certificate to say that you have walked in Galicia for (the last)100 klms from any direction (though from Fisterre or Muxia doesn't quite qualify even though it is one of the oldest - by sea - routes from Ponte do Porto, which is near The Little Fox House).

This is not correct. The route Finisterre/Muxia to Santiago qualifies pilgrims who wish it for a Compostela

John

Priscillian · Jul 25, 2012

John, my apologies. I understood that it was less than 100 klms to either direction and so did not. I stand corrected. Thank you.
And Falcon, yes THE PILGRIMAGE DOES end in Santiago and hence the Compostela, historically and today. I don´t think that I disagreed with that or if I did it was the result of too much verbosity on my part! I always tell my students that the more they write, the more chance they have of getting it wrong!
(Don´t think - apart from the qualitative detail above - that I did this time though.)
T
PS that "two sellos a day" thing. Is that new? I certainly don´t remember that at all on any of my four Caminos and that includes 2009. In 1999 there were sellos at "refugios" and that was about it! I always thought that getting more was over the top and a bit immoral, to tell you the truth...what someone I know calls "being a sello slut"!

JohnnieWalker · Jul 25, 2012

"The two sellos thing" is relatively modern and is a policy which was introduced in the last few years. The requirement now appears clearly on the Pilgrims Office website and is printed on the credenciales.

I realise that to some people this may seem like a bureaucratic rule but it was introduced following consultation with the network of Amigos Associations many of whom run albergues. Requiring pilgrims to obtain at least two sellos per day is a strategy aimed at curtailing the growing numbers of people who travel by car and simply want to use the facilities of albergues and for some to get a Compostela. Thus it is intended to benefit pilgrims rather than irritate us!

The reality is that two sellos per day are very easy to obtain and if you don't the staff of the Pilgrims Office can tell who has walked from St Jean Pied de Port and who has walked from a parked car round the corner

fraluchi · Jul 25, 2012

JohnnieWalker said:
.... the staff of the Pilgrims Office can tell who has walked from St Jean Pied de Port and who has walked from a parked car round the corner

This sums it up!
Staff at the Office is neither politically nor financially involved when issuing a Compostela. They are motivated by the Camino de Santiago spirit.
One could compare them to hotel concierges and -receptionists, who have a sense of understanding that "clothes do not make the monk".
As such, a credencial does not make the pilgrim.
Who sets the rules? It's not fail-proof, but basically the pilgrim/walker him- or herself and his/her general behaviour when arriving, presenting his/her credencial and answering questions at the registration office.
Most staff can indeed identify a pilgrim when they see one

robertt · Jul 26, 2012

I'm very much a don't-care type with these things. If I'd been refused a compostela because I'd forgotten to stamp my pass, it wouldn't have been a prob - for me! Though I have walked every inch from Le Puy to Finisterre (and down and back to Valenca), I'm really too uncommitted and touristy to make any claim on anything. So much for me.

But consider how many pilgs are very much the other way and you will surely be flooded with gratitude for these marvellous offices in Saint-Jean and Santiago, and those who staff them. In both offices, I observed the constant rush and pressure from the very varied characters who come by the minute. I don't know who is volunteer and who is paid, but, like the hospitaleros, these admin guys form a truly grand institution.

I have a suggestion for all experienced pilgrims. As people complete and queue in the Santiago office, they are in an elevated mood which can't always be shared in the same degree by staff, caught up advising and processing. If you happen to be in the office, why not take over the duty of greeting and congratulating? You'll probably be in a good mood yourself, so why not become an on-the-spot volunteer for just a minute or two, doing the only easy job available?

JohnnieWalker · Jul 26, 2012

Yes! And this year we have begun a project called the Amigos Welcome where people volunteer to to come to live in Santiago to help provide information to pilgrims and also an individual "welcome" and "congratulations" - some of you who have arrived might have met them. They are the ones who are constantly cheerful whilst the people behind the desks do the hard work of writing compostelas!
We are running the project this year on a pilot basis with a view to expanding it next year. But in the courtyard of the Pilgrims Office there is always the opportunity for pilgrims to instantly volunteer by greeting and congratulating others.

You can read more about the Amigos Welcome Service here:

http://www.johnniewalker-santiago.blogs ... ishop.html

and here:

http://www.johnniewalker-santiago.blogs ... migos.html

Best regards

John

KiwiNomad06 · Jul 26, 2012

If you are really fortunate when you go to the Pilgrim's Office, you might get to meet a certain man from Scotland. He might be recognised by the way he bounds up the stairs a little late, after the early morning rush, and by the way he quickly identifies a Kiwi from her pack. Thanks Johnnie My Compostela is extra special since you filled it all in
Margaret

Hmmm and now I am home in the shaky isles and that was quite a strong earthquake I felt while writing that.

William Marques · Jul 26, 2012

PingHansen said:
Incidentally, my old school crest (or, that of the founder), is three pilgrim shells on a blue background - destiny? :wink:

Kjærulf? My wife's family is Dane/Swede and one branch of her ancestors, the Kjærulfs, have three shells on their crest.

Priscillian · Jul 26, 2012

JohnnieWalker said:
Priscillian said:

So, what you get in S de C at the (Church run) pilgrim´s office is a certificate to say that you have walked in Galicia for (the last)100 klms from any direction (though from Fisterre or Muxia doesn't quite qualify even though it is one of the oldest - by sea - routes from Ponte do Porto, which is near The Little Fox House).

Click to expand...

This is not correct. The route Finisterre/Muxia to Santiago qualifies pilgrims who wish it for a Compostela

John

Actually, I have to add here that although my Finisterre/Muxia designation may have been misunderstood as meaning "Finisterre to Muxia (or vice versa) and then to Santiago" this was not what I meant to say. The distance from Muxia to Santiago, or from Finisterre to Santiago is less than 100 kilometers and does NOT qualify you for a Compostela, as I learned this morning and originally believed.

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