What's the thing with pilgrims and scenic detours?

[Luka]

Earlier this week I walked a fabulous detour on the Camino del Norte that I totally missed when I was actually walking the Norte. It was 20k more, about 34 instead of 14. But instead of walking on asphalt in rather ugly outskirts, I walked on dirt tracks with panoramic coastal views. The official Camino del Norte has quite a lot of not so scenic asphalt, while many times there are stunning coastal alternatives.

So now I am wondering, why is it that us pilgrims mostly tend to take the shortest way from A to B? Instead of - for example - hikers? When Caminos and GR's (long distance hikes) coincide, you can be pretty sure that the GR takes the scenic route through nature and the Camino takes the shortcut. Even if that means walking along the road. As the journey is the destination, it can't be that we pilgrims are always in a hurry, can it?

So why would this be? Does it have to do with the cultural highlights? The cafe con leche options? Preferring the 'historical' route? Avoiding though up and downs? Being afraid of getting lost? Missing out on the social pilgrim experience? Or is it just a difference between pilgrims and hikers?

 

[Tincatinker]

@Luka great question but for me none of the above apply. I’ll take any diversion that’ll take me to something worth seeing, drinking or eating. Pace the Pilgrims Office but for me “all roads lead to Santiago” so an un-official, off-piste, route is just part of making my “Way” to the old boy’s bones.
Ignorance (original meaning) is, I think the core of it: if you’ve no knowledge of a thing how can you seek to know it. The aspirants buy their guidebooks, download the Apps, find this forum if they’re lucky, and then what. The every driver, the absolute focus, is get to Santiago (or Fisterra / Muxia for the lucky few). St JB, blessings upon him, does highlight the minor diversions to Eunate and Vilar de Donas but is silent on the “Valley of Silence” and many other possibilities. This forum is one of the best sources of “alternativos” I have ever encountered but most will never excavate its wonderful layers and discover just how much stuff is out there just outside that 1km wide linear city that is the CF.
Meanwhile, what boots should I wear when pre-booking breakfast for less than €# in my bug-proof sleeping arrangement….

 

[malingerer]

@Luka great question but for me none of the above apply. I’ll take any diversion that’ll take me to something worth seeing, drinking or eating. Pace the Pilgrims Office but for me “all roads lead to Santiago” so an un-official, off-piste, route is just part of making my “Way” to the old boy’s bones.
Ignorance (original meaning) is, I think the core of it: if you’ve no knowledge of a thing how can you seek to know it. The aspirants buy their guidebooks, download the Apps, find this forum if they’re lucky, and then what. The every driver, the absolute focus, is get to Santiago (or Fisterra / Muxia for the lucky few). St JB, blessings upon him, does highlight the minor diversions to Eunate and Vilar de Donas but is silent on the “Valley of Silence” and many other possibilities. This forum is one of the best sources of “alternativos” I have ever encountered but most will never excavate its wonderful layers and discover just how much stuff is out there just outside that 1km wide linear city that is the CF.
Meanwhile, what boots should I wear when pre-booking breakfast for less than €# in my bug-proof sleeping arrangement….

alas! at 84 its really for me a scenario where the tootsies are heard going " OK eyeballs, its fine for you to do the gawping, but down here its us who do the walking! fer the love of whatever can we just agree to get there? Amen" Its different down there on the Plata where I can get cheerfully lost and then convince myself it was a lovely detour

Walk soft, stay safe

Samarkand.

 

[J Willhaus]

@Luka, I didn't vote. My reason is usually that my feet hurt and I just want to get somewhere so I can take off my shoes and/or have a cold drink sooner.

 

[davebugg]

I didn't vote, but I have done some and ignored others. Sometimes they detour doesn't appeal to me, at other times it a cost/benefit thing. . . how much energy will it cost vs what will I gain.

 

[Luka]

@Luka, I didn't vote. My reason is usually that my feet hurt and I just want to get somewhere so I can take off my shoes and/or have a cold drink sooner.

But that could be solved with a little preparation, couldn't it? On the detour I walked this week, I didn't walk 34k in one day, but took my shoes off in a village at 21k and walked on the next day.

 

[Luka]

@Luka great question but for me none of the above apply.

I could only add 10 options...
But I think it is often a combination or each time for a different reason.

 

[Luka]

I didn't vote, but I have done some and ignored others. Sometimes they detour doesn't appeal to me, at other times it a cost/benefit thing. . . how much energy will it cost vs what will I gain.

I am talking scenic detours / avoiding asphalt, so if it doesn't appeal to you then it might be just not scenic enough to you...

 

[J Willhaus]

But that could be solved with a little preparation, couldn't it? On the detour I walked this week, I didn't walk 34k in one day, but took my shoes off in a village at 21k and walked on the next day.

Actually I walked every day for 56 days on my first Camino and it took 56 more days for my feet to really feel OK again after I got home...I sprained my ankle shortly before Los Arcos and also developed plantar fasciitis and still walked. My feet just hurt and the idea of walking further was just not appealing.

 

[Luka]

If I try to answer my own question, I think it has to do with a lot of things. Sometimes good reasons and sometimes because I felt an urge to move on, which feels a bit irrational in hindsight, as it is all about the journey.

I think it also depends on which Camino you walk. Especially the Norte is full of IMHO extremely worthwhile scenic alternatives. Also because the 'official' route has so much asphalt.

 

[davebugg]

I am talking scenic detours / avoiding asphalt, so if it doesn't appeal to you then it might be just not scenic enough to you...

That is actually a relevant point. From the very first Camino I walked, it has never been for scenery. If the purpose for long distance walking/hiking is for nature and scenery, then I head to the mountains and wilderness for backpacking, rather than spend the time and money to travel to Spain or France to walk a camino.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the sights and sounds along the camino routes I have done, and there is wonderful beauty to be found along those routes. I love the architecture, the villages and towns and cities, the cultural things that I am exposed to. And the food

But these are all incidental to my pilgrimages, they are not the focus.

That may explain why I responded as I did. While I will always choose the River Walk option to enter Burgos from Villafranca Montes de Oca, I would not do so if I had to walk an extra 10k. So, in a sense, your observation has some truth to it.

 

[alexwalker]

Not relevant. I walk where I want.

 

[Luka]

That is actually a relevant point. From the very first Camino I walked, it has never been for scenery. If the purpose for long distance walking/hiking is for nature and scenery, then I head to the mountains and wilderness for backpacking, rather than spend the time and money to travel to Spain or France to walk a camino.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the sights and sounds along the camino routes I have done, and there is wonderful beauty to be found along those routes. I love the architecture, the villages and towns and cities, the cultural things that I am exposed to. And the food

But these are all incidental to my pilgrimages, they are not the focus.

That may explain why I responded as I did. While I will always choose the River Walk option to enter Burgos from Villafranca Montes de Oca, I would not do so if I had to walk an extra 10k. So, in a sense, your observation has some truth to it.

So in your opinion it also has to do with the difference between hiking and doing a pilgrimage? Because that is what I think, that hikers and pilgrims want different things. And I find myself somewhere in between hikers and pilgrims, I think...

 

[C clearly]

It is very difficult to give reasons for NOT doing something - the reasons can be almost infinite. Better to ask to generalize what reasons make us decide to go on a detour. Even so, the answer will be different for every time you face that decision. The reasons could be summed up by how you feel, how much time you have, and how interested you are in whatever the site is. Those apply equally to pilgrims and hikers.

 

[Tincatinker]

My guess is that a detour is only a detour for someone who wasn’t going there already. I’ll take any of the thousand roads but I’ll still end them in Santiago. And if a pilgrim doesn’t know that there are a thousand roads they’ll never know where the others go.

Why walk on tarmac when you could walk a leaf splattered path through an autumnal wood? Why wade through mud and worse when there’s a perfectly good road to where you’re going?

Both those questions are good for me. I can take as long as I have to get anywhere I want to. For the 34 day hacker with pre-booked flights all those wobbly bits are just a thought to far…

 

[davebugg]

So in your opinion it also has to do with the difference between hiking and doing a pilgrimage? Because that is what I think, that hikers and pilgrims want different things. And I find myself somewhere in between hikers and pilgrims, I think...

I have always made the distinction between wilderness backpacking vs walking a camino. I have posted many rebuttals against those who attempt to use wilderness backpacking as the 'bar' against which they will review or critique a camino.

I am not in a tug of war in deciding what I want as either a pilgrim or a backpacker, because they are quite different experiences.

 

[domigee]

I became adept at avoiding detours on the Via Francigena

 

[sillydoll]

When the modern Camino Frances trail was established in the late 1970s and early 1980s, many places with historical evidence of pilgrims having visited in the middle ages were bypassed in order to create an A to B path.
From the time the first pilgrims walked to Santiago, the routes were in flux, influenced by the seasons, the weather, political situation at the time, rivers and bridges that were built, and where postal carts and horses could travel safely.
If you read the classic Linda Davidson and David Gitlitz book on the Pilgrimage Road to Santiago you'll find numerous text boxes with information of historical, often Jacobean, sites off the trail by close by.
How many pilgrims visit Clavijo Castle, 20km (12 miles) from Logroño, the place where legend says that on 23 May 884 Santiago Matamoros first appeared in the clouds on his white horse to fight a battle with the Christians against the Moors? This date is part of the liturgy when the Botafumeiro is swung in the cathedral, celebrating the Apparition of the Apostle-Clavijo.
There wasn't one constant path between villages and towns to Santiago and Aimery Picaud made many suggestions for pilgrims to visit churches, monasteries and other monuments in the 12th c Liber Sancti Jacobe, a chapter in the Codex Calxtinus. (Photo of the castle at Clavijo)

 

[Dennis Pack]

Earlier this week I walked a fabulous detour on the Camino del Norte that I totally missed when I was actually walking the Norte. It was 20k more, about 34 instead of 14. But instead of walking on asphalt in rather ugly outskirts, I walked on dirt tracks with panoramic coastal views. The official Camino del Norte has quite a lot of not so scenic asphalt, while many times there are stunning coastal alternatives.

So now I am wondering, why is it that us pilgrims mostly tend to take the shortest way from A to B? Instead of - for example - hikers? When Caminos and GR's (long distance hikes) coincide, you can be pretty sure that the GR takes the scenic route through nature and the Camino takes the shortcut. Even if that means walking along the road. As the journey is the destination, it can't be that we pilgrims are always in a hurry, can it?

So why would this be? Does it have to do with the cultural highlights? The cafe con leche options? Preferring the 'historical' route? Avoiding though up and downs? Being afraid of getting lost? Missing out on the social pilgrim experience? Or is it just a difference between pilgrims and hikers?

I found most of those are the reasons I did take the "scenic route". On several occasions locals suggested an alternative route ... and I still managed to rejoin the "official route" at the end of each day.

 

[Elle Bieling]

She who wanders is not lost! Go for whatever is in your heart!

 

[Charles Ross]

This isn't really a "detour" but did you know that the oldest DNA has been found from the remains of an individual living 400,000 years ago . . . and that the cave they were found in lies just about on the Frances route in the Atapurca mountains near Burgos? Also there appears to be an excellent museum in Burgos devoted to various 'finds' in the area and the general subject of pre-history man (and woman!) It's called the Museum of Human Evolution.
I've taken an interest in the subject and plan to spend a couple of day in Burgos when we walk through in late April. There is an excellent book by Rebecca Sykes titled 'Kindred' that I can recommend. It's about Neanderthals and portions of it involve the Iberian Peninsula and also a book titled 'The Prehistory of Iberia' by Maria Berrocal (haven't read but looks interesting).

 

[TaijiPilgrim]

This isn't really a "detour" but did you know that the oldest DNA has been found from the remains of an individual living 400,000 years ago . . . and that the cave they were found in lies just about on the Frances route in the Atapurca mountains near Burgos? Also there appears to be an excellent museum in Burgos devoted to various 'finds' in the area and the general subject of pre-history man (and woman!) It's called the Museum of Human Evolution.
I've taken an interest in the subject and plan to spend a couple of day in Burgos when we walk through in late April. There is an excellent book by Rebecca Sykes titled 'Kindred' that I can recommend. It's about Neanderthals and portions of it involve the Iberian Peninsula and also a book titled 'The Prehistory of Iberia' by Maria Berrocal (haven't read but looks interesting).

In Burgos you can also arrange a tour to the neaderthal site. You alsomight be able to arrange this in Atapuerca orat the visitor'scenter/museum about a kilometer off the camino before the village.

 

[dbier]

Simply put.. I get lost easily. Really easily. I went to Vilar de Donas, leaving my lame husband in the café just before the turn, because there was really only one way there and back. (And it was, wait for it, closed). :/

I won't take a detour/side path if I think I'll get lost. I mix up lefts and rights, take forever to read a map, and don't know how to use a compass.

Can you guess that I don't hike recreationally?

 

[TaijiPilgrim]

Simply put.. I get lost easily. Really easily. I went to Vilar de Donas, leaving my lame husband in the café just before the turn, because there was really only one way there and back. (And it was, wait for it, closed). :/

I won't take a detour/side path if I think I'll get lost. I mix up lefts and rights, take forever to read a map, and don't know how to use a compass.

Can you guess that I don't hike recreationally?

When we went there in 2011, the caretaker of the key came running down from his house, unlocked the church, and gave us an enthusiastic tour - unfortunately in Gallego. We did understand him to say he was so happy to see us because most pilgrims never come to visit.

 

[Mycroft]

I didn't vote, but I have done some and ignored others. Sometimes they detour doesn't appeal to me, at other times it a cost/benefit thing. . . how much energy will it cost vs what will I gain.

You say what I feel!

 

[pasiño a pasiño]

find this forum if they’re lucky,

I am really happy that I discovered this Forum! - After thousands of miles I've walked on different ways the last 12 years, without specific fortified background or Google maps and friends!

I finally discovered here more opportunities/informations, ya the whole range what this Forum "can provide".
It can be fantastic!!!
Also nice to share experiences, but I doubt that this is/should be necessary or fortunate for a newbie/first timer!
Actually the opposite! I think it spoils to much or gives it to much of a "father's opinion" (sorry my English)!
What does a "first timer" need to know about "detours" in this thread?
Isn't it more about sharing with experienced pilgrims?
Because to spoil all the things what might happen on "a Camino" or just happened while we were there and maybe not, when the one after us is there?

I think our responsibility should be, to let everyone experience their own "first Camino", so they can tell us about their experiences and this keeps "us" open minded.....was just a thought!

 

[Ian Campbell]

The Le Puy to Saint-Jean camino route follows the GR65 hiking trail. Many of the walkers are not pilgrims but French citizens on a walking holiday for a week or two. The GR65 tends to take a lot of detours whether you like it or not. Sometimes the trail darts off to one side, goes up and around a hill, then rejoins the original path only a short distance further ahead. For the local hikers this was probably enjoyable. As a pilgrim focused on a more distant goal I found it a little frustrating, and I eventually stopped following the official path and pieced together my own.
Next time - the Camino Frances this April and May - I have allowed time for rest days and cultural detours as the opportunity arises.

 

[headoverheels]

When the modern Camino Frances trail was established in the late 1970s and early 1980s, many places with historical evidence of pilgrims having visited in the middle ages were bypassed in order to create an A to B path.
From the time the first pilgrims walked to Santiago, the routes were in flux, influenced by the seasons, the weather, political situation at the time, rivers and bridges that were built, and where postal carts and horses could travel safely.
If you read the classic Linda Davidson and David Gitlitz book on the Pilgrimage Road to Santiago you'll find numerous text boxes with information of historical, often Jacobean, sites off the trail by close by.
How many pilgrims visit Clavijo Castle, 20km (12 miles) from Logroño, the place where legend says that on 23 May 884 Santiago Matamoros first appeared in the clouds on his white horse to fight a battle with the Christians against the Moors? This date is part of the liturgy when the Botafumeiro is swung in the cathedral, celebrating the Apparition of the Apostle-Clavijo.
There wasn't one constant path between villages and towns to Santiago and Aimery Picaud made many suggestions for pilgrims to visit churches, monasteries and other monuments in the 12th c Liber Sancti Jacobe, a chapter in the Codex Calxtinus. (Photo of the castle at Clavijo)
View attachment 121252

Well I only read yesterday in a book about camino the scientists took many years of research to conclude there wasn't any battle around Clavijo in the history and all of the rumors were nice and long lived...but only a fairy tale.

 

[Luka]

It is very difficult to give reasons for NOT doing something - the reasons can be almost infinite. Better to ask to generalize what reasons make us decide to go on a detour. Even so, the answer will be different for every time you face that decision. The reasons could be summed up by how you feel, how much time you have, and how interested you are in whatever the site is. Those apply equally to pilgrims and hikers.


You are making judgements on the worthiness of reasons, when those will be different for every person and every day, and in fact every corner you come around. If it is "all about the journey" why would the urge to move on (i.e. progressing on that journey) not be a "good" reason? Who is to say that a particular view is "worth" more than relief from soreness of old feet? Only the individual can judge that, for that moment.

I meant to talk just about my own decisions, not about the decisions of others.

 

[wisepilgrim]

While I will always choose the River Walk option to enter Burgos from Villafranca Montes de Oca, I would not do so if I had to walk an extra 10k.

I would walk the River route if it added 20km. The road via Vilafria is the least enjoyable experience of my life. 19 years later, my feet hurt just thinking about it.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I have taken some of the coastal detours on the Norte for the views and to avoid the road, and did not regret the extra time it took.
On the Portuguese route out of Porto I took the Espiritual Variant and again, no regrets.
On the Frances I totally regret twice not taking the detours to both Eunate, and to Samos with its monestery. If I choose to walk the Frances again, I will visit both. I did however, walk many of the "green" alternate paths in the Brierley book and enjoyed them.