What's the Difference between a Pilgrimage and a Long Walk?

Victoria_Peregrina · Jul 6, 2015

GAUVINS said:
I forget the name of this Indian sacred city that is visited by 100 millions pilgrims every year. (incredible isn't it?).

You are probably thinking of Machu Picchu.

LauraK · Jul 6, 2015

Victoria_Peregrina said:
You are probably thinking of Machu Picchu.

He said India...I think he is referring to the Tirumala Venkateswara Temple, a famous Hindu site visited by over 50 million pilgrims annually from all over the world.

Victoria_Peregrina · Jul 6, 2015

For me this topic is very interesting and I've read all the replies. One common theme is that people choose to walk the Camino as either pilgrims or non-spiritual walkers and that the latter usually acquire spiritual meaning.

The reality is more complex. Many of our opinions and beliefs are developed subconsciously. We are influenced by our environment more than we are willing to admit. Someone embarking on the Camino knows that it's a spiritual journey. He has read multiple accounts of people who have found profound meaning. And so he is wondering if he'll also stumble on his life's truths. He may be wondering without consciously realizing it, but his mind becomes fertile for spirituality.

On the Camino, our skeptic is surrounded by places of incredible beauty, natural and man-made. He spends nights in places of worship, enters churches and cathedrals, makes friends with spiritual people who are (otherwise) are just like him. And then one day, when he is walking alone, perhaps in Meseta, he sees fata morgana. The image is vivid and significant, and he starts thinking of it as the spirit of the Camino.

Many hours of solo walking also invoke deep mental processes and he uncovers some truths about his life. These self-discoveries could have happened on a solo walk on the Appalachian Trail, but on the Camino, it's more natural to attribute them to the Camino. And this attribution is not a delusion; because the spirit of the Camino (the expectations, the people, the places) has facilitated and colored these thoughts.

And so, unless one stubbornly resists any hint of his own spirituality, he becomes a pilgrim; the spirit of the Camino makes him a pilgrim.

Victoria_Peregrina · Jul 6, 2015

LauraK said:
He said India...I think he is referring to the Tirumala Venkateswara Temple, a famous Hindu site visited by over 50 million pilgrims annually from all over the world.

I hope the poster will clarify what he meant. He used the word "Indian" which could be applied to the indigenous populations of the Americas.

GAUVINS · Jul 6, 2015

Victoria_Peregrina said:
I hope the poster will clarify what he meant.

I was referring to the Kumbh Mela, in Allahabad India. If you read the wikipedia entry you will eventually come across a paragraph where it says that "Approximately 80 million people were estimated to attend on 14 February 2013." (but it may be a typo as elsewhere in the same entry we read 30 millions).

GAUVINS · Jul 6, 2015

Victoria_Peregrina said:
And so, unless one stubbornly resists any hint of his own spirituality, he becomes a pilgrim; the spirit of the Camino makes him a pilgrim.

I guess I wish this were true. Unfortunately I can't help thinking about several people telling me about their experiences, many focusing on the fun they had visiting Spain with their friends, or on the headaches caused by too much wine.

Hmmm... Reminds me of the Pittsburgh's children museum where there's a very large pendulum next to the cafeteria. There is a warning to not touch too much as one should wait until the pendulum aligns along earth's axis and becomes some kind of a clock. The idea is to give a push and wait... and marvel.

Most visitors don't wait. They push, hoping something spectacular to happen, immediately. Then they seem to conclude that the exhibit is defective and walk away.

I wondered if this wasn't, indeed, the subtle purpose of the exhibit - to demonstrate that discovering requires time.

---

Yes I agree that context matters. Walking for a month on a threadmill at the nearest fitness centre is not the same as walking a historic path.

dougfitz · Jul 6, 2015

Victoria_Peregrina said:
For me this topic is very interesting and I've read all the replies. One common theme is that people choose to walk the Camino as either pilgrims or non-spiritual walkers and that the latter usually acquire spiritual meaning.

The reality is more complex. Many of our opinions and beliefs are developed subconsciously. We are influenced by our environment more than we are willing to admit. Someone embarking on the Camino knows that it's a spiritual journey. He has read multiple accounts of people who have found profound meaning. And so he is wondering if he'll also stumble on his life's truths. He may be wondering without consciously realizing it, but his mind becomes fertile for spirituality.

On the Camino, our skeptic is surrounded by places of incredible beauty, natural and man-made. He spends nights in places of worship, enters churches and cathedrals, makes friends with spiritual people who are (otherwise) are just like him. And then one day, when he is walking alone, perhaps in Meseta, he sees fata morgana. The image is vivid and significant, and he starts thinking of it as the spirit of the Camino.

Many hours of solo walking also invoke deep mental processes and he uncovers some truths about his life. These self-discoveries could have happened on a solo walk on the Appalachian Trail, but on the Camino, it's more natural to attribute them to the Camino. And this attribution is not a delusion; because the spirit of the Camino (the expectations, the people, the places) has facilitated and colored these thoughts.

And so, unless one stubbornly resists any hint of his own spirituality, he becomes a pilgrim; the spirit of the Camino makes him a pilgrim.

How wonderfully romantic!

Robo · Jul 6, 2015

Some really interesting replies.......... thank you.

The challenge for me, is to maintain that feeling / emotion that I gained on the Camino. I don't want it to fade into an interesting experience and a collection of photos and videos. One of the reasons I compiled so much material on my blog. I wanted to 'capture' everything I could....

One thing I am trying, is a moment of reflection each day, as I did on my Camino. I have set up my 'Camino corner' in our garden I'll post a pic later .......

I suppose it's only natural that the 'intensity' of emotion and spiritual connection would diminish once back home and all the distrations of 'n

Victoria_Peregrina said:
For me this topic is very interesting and I've read all the replies. One common theme is that people choose to walk the Camino as either pilgrims or non-spiritual walkers and that the latter usually acquire spiritual meaning.

The reality is more complex. Many of our opinions and beliefs are developed subconsciously. We are influenced by our environment more than we are willing to admit. Someone embarking on the Camino knows that it's a spiritual journey. He has read multiple accounts of people who have found profound meaning. And so he is wondering if he'll also stumble on his life's truths. He may be wondering without consciously realizing it, but his mind becomes fertile for spirituality.

On the Camino, our skeptic is surrounded by places of incredible beauty, natural and man-made. He spends nights in places of worship, enters churches and cathedrals, makes friends with spiritual people who are (otherwise) are just like him. And then one day, when he is walking alone, perhaps in Meseta, he sees fata morgana. The image is vivid and significant, and he starts thinking of it as the spirit of the Camino.

Many hours of solo walking also invoke deep mental processes and he uncovers some truths about his life. These self-discoveries could have happened on a solo walk on the Appalachian Trail, but on the Camino, it's more natural to attribute them to the Camino. And this attribution is not a delusion; because the spirit of the Camino (the expectations, the people, the places) has facilitated and colored these thoughts.

And so, unless one stubbornly resists any hint of his own spirituality, he becomes a pilgrim; the spirit of the Camino makes him a pilgrim.

How very well put............

Though I missed seeing 'Fat Morgan' on the Meseta. Where does he hang out

nellpilgrim · Jul 6, 2015

Sometimes a simple objective description can prove more flexible, open and useful than absolute definitions which can appear a little rigid? Richard Scriven is a young geographer whose work on pilgrimage mobilities I've found really interesting especially the 5 characteristics of pilgrimage he describes :- Movement, Place, Meaning, Transformation, Embodiment. I can't find the quote with the exact figures-only remembering that they're truly astounding - but specifically religious pilgrimage is still responsible for the largest annual movements of people on earth. I also have to declare my interest and say that, as a regular participant in very local pilgrimages or 'Patterns' in Kerry/Cork since childhood, I've been interviewed & observed by Richard a couple of times for his research (which I guess makes me a lab rat but at least I'm pilgrim lab rat!).

"Characteristics of Pilgrimage

Pilgrimage is one of the oldest and most widespread forms of human activity there is. Not alone is pilgrimage practised in all major world religions - Buddhism, Christianity (particularly Catholicism), Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Sikhism (although, it is a disputed practice) – but it has also been a feature of all known major religions and cults in the past.

Furthermore, pilgrimage is now seen as having moved beyond religious definitions with the emergence of different types of pilgrimage, such as those centred on the cultural sphere (e.g. Graceland or Disneyland), on nationalism (e.g. monuments, graves, battlefields) or on personal motivations (visiting or returning an important place, or a migrant coming home).

Pilgrimage, despite its prominence and changing-nature, can be seen to have a number of key characteristics that define it and differentiate from other forms of human behaviour. While these elements maybe found in other activities, it is their combination that make pilgrimage so unique.

Characteristics

Movement: Pilgrimage is a performed activity that is traditionally associated with a long-distance journey and different rituals. As a phenomenon, it is basically about physical movement. Pilgrims travel to a certain place. In this setting, the journey is considered to be an important part, if not the most important part. For example, thousands of pilgrims annually trek across the Camino of Santiago de Compostela in northern Spain, with the journey being seen as the defining element for some of those who walk.

Place: The sites and routes of pilgrimage are all located somewhere. Pilgrimage is inherently spatial. There is a particular place that is the destination; frequently, there are particular routes one must follow; and, there are stations of prayer and ritual. Specific places are considered to be holy, that is, they are different from normal places and are worthy of being visited. The sacred nature of the location is usually due to some supernatural event, such as a the presence of a deity or a divine/holy figure, or an apparition or a miracle. Mecca or Guadalupe, Mexico, for example, are treated differently to other places, they are distinct and special.

Meaning: There is a deep motivation and understanding at the core of pilgrim. It involves the belief in something and the search for an authentic, meaningful experience. Traditionally, religious or spiritual pilgrims were motivated by desires to encounter the divine, to do penance for transgressions or to gain some spiritual or corporal favour. Hindus bath in the waters of the Ganges river in Northern India to wash away their sins. Motivation or meaning also define secular pilgrimage. Those journeying to the war graves or battlefields of WWI or to Graceland are equally inspired by a belief in something.

Transformation: A transformative or otherwise significant experience is part of pilgrimage. People travel to encounter something outside of their ordinary lives. The journey and the challenges associated with it are designed to prepare you for the main site. On returning from pilgrimage, the pilgrim is supposed to be spiritual renewed, essentially returning as a new person who has been transformed through their experience.

Embodiment: Pilgrimages are very physical and corporeal things. They centre on bodies. They involve long journeys and complex rituals. Pilgrims walk long-distances, they pray in certain ways, they fast or eat prescribed foods, they wear certain clothing, they bath. When pilgrims cannot engage in the general activities, frequently due to illness or age, an extra significance is attached, as pilgrimage sites are often visited by people who are unwell and they are given a special place in proceedings – for example, in Lourdes, France"

N

CaminoDebrita · Jul 6, 2015

Victoria_Peregrina said:
For me this topic is very interesting and I've read all the replies. One common theme is that people choose to walk the Camino as either pilgrims or non-spiritual walkers and that the latter usually acquire spiritual meaning.

The reality is more complex. Many of our opinions and beliefs are developed subconsciously. We are influenced by our environment more than we are willing to admit. Someone embarking on the Camino knows that it's a spiritual journey. He has read multiple accounts of people who have found profound meaning. And so he is wondering if he'll also stumble on his life's truths. He may be wondering without consciously realizing it, but his mind becomes fertile for spirituality.

On the Camino, our skeptic is surrounded by places of incredible beauty, natural and man-made. He spends nights in places of worship, enters churches and cathedrals, makes friends with spiritual people who are (otherwise) are just like him. And then one day, when he is walking alone, perhaps in Meseta, he sees fata morgana. The image is vivid and significant, and he starts thinking of it as the spirit of the Camino.

Many hours of solo walking also invoke deep mental processes and he uncovers some truths about his life. These self-discoveries could have happened on a solo walk on the Appalachian Trail, but on the Camino, it's more natural to attribute them to the Camino. And this attribution is not a delusion; because the spirit of the Camino (the expectations, the people, the places) has facilitated and colored these thoughts.

And so, unless one stubbornly resists any hint of his own spirituality, he becomes a pilgrim; the spirit of the Camino makes him a pilgrim.

Very well written. I enjoyed your analysis so much.

DLJ · Jul 6, 2015

Robo said:
I don't know enough about the peace walk. Maybe it could be either, the difference being the intent of the walker?

The Peace Walk didn't exist until a year or so ago. Involving Austria, Hungary and ending in Italy. The purpose to commemorate the wars that have ravaged that area, including the "war to end all wars." A noble project, but it only accommodates a few with reservations.
History shows that since the 1100's many people were journeying across Europe to either Santiago de Compostella or Rome for various religious reasons, penance, indulgence, answer to prayers, or just seeking. Some of these believed in hair shirts, self-flagellation, and religious superstitions, but all were recognized as making a religious pilgrimage. This was a time of not only the Crusades and the Inquisition (the Catholic Church was the over-all ruling power), but most of France, Spain, Italy didn't exist as today's nations, but a number of independent Provinces warring with each other in constant struggles for power. It was definitely not life in Camelot, for the middle and lower classes. I'm sure nobody at the time debated whether it was a Pilgrimage or a long walk.
While the Pilgrims of Martin Sheen's "The Way" obviously have little in common with their predecessors, today's Pilgrim, Catholic or other, still finds there are lessons for living to be learned from the Camino. In fact it is the mix of Pilgrim ideologies that contributes to the lessons. In its way, the Camino is also a Peace Walk.

Jiffie · Jul 7, 2015

Robo said:
I actually said in the first post....

I first heard it posed by John Brierley in this talk Or at least a very similar question I think he merely asks, what is a Pilgrimage. (No need to watch the video......It's quite long)

I re checked the video Doug.

In fact he asks..."How does a long distance Trek, become a pilgrimage"? (at 19:45min) Not exactly the question I asked I know....

Don't shoot me, I thought it was an interesting question to ask, regardless of precisely how Brierley posed it

I very much enjoyed the question and the intent of your post. Thank you. I leave in 61 days and will add this to my list of concepts to ponder on my training hikes.

Anemone del Camino · Jul 7, 2015

Jiffie said:
I very much enjoyed the question and the intent of your post. Thank you. I leave in 61 days and will add this to my list of concepts to ponder on my training hikes.

@Jiffie , at this moment what would be your answer; ot would be interesting to compare with when you finish.

Robo · Jul 7, 2015

Jiffie said:
I very much enjoyed the question and the intent of your post. Thank you. I leave in 61 days and will add this to my list of concepts to ponder on my training hikes.

I found the 'pondering' an amazing experience. Part of the reason I walked alone most of the time.

I started out seeking answers. Almost to "life the universe and everything" as per Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy!

Then I realised that perhaps I was seeking answers to the wrong questions. Finding the right question was perhaps my reason for walking the Camino.

And the question came..............then the answers came ..... and all was good in the World

I'm sure we all ponder many different and varied things. The 'Rhythm of the Walk' makes it hard not to.

Enjoy your pondering and we look forward to hearing about it on your return

P.S. Pondering on your training hikes.........is not quite the same as pondering on the Camino ........... a whole different level given the environment

You now have me thinking of my next Camino...............and I said I wouldn't do another one!

C clearly · Jul 7, 2015

Robo said:
You now have me thinking of my next Camino...............and I said I wouldn't do another one!

Are you serious!? I hope so!

Anemone del Camino · Jul 7, 2015

Robo said:
I found the 'pondering' an amazing experience. Part of the reason I walked alone most of the time.

I started out seeking answers. Almost to "life the universe and everything" as per Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy!

Then I realised that perhaps I was seeking answers to the wrong questions. Finding the right question was perhaps my reason for walking the Camino.

And the question came..............then the answers came ..... and all was good in the World

I'm sure we all ponder many different and varied things. The 'Rhythm of the Walk' makes it hard not to.

Enjoy your pondering and we look forward to hearing about it on your return

P.S. Pondering on your training hikes.........is not quite the same as pondering on the Camino ........... a whole different level given the environment

You now have me thinking of my next Camino...............and I said I wouldn't do another one!

You are,thinking of what? Didn't you tell us a few days ago it was a one of? Hah, the man with the rice cooker he left behind now is contemplating walking again. LOVE IT!!'mm

Robo · Jul 7, 2015

C clearly said:
Are you serious!? I hope so!

Only thinking..........

Robo · Jul 7, 2015

Anemone del Camino said:
You are,thinking of what? Didn't you tell us a few days ago it was a one of? Hah, the man with the rice cooker he left behind now is contemplating walking again. LOVE IT!!'mm

Yeh Yeh Yeh.............So you're all right again

Maybe just bits of.........as a tourist..............with my wife

We'll see............

Anemone del Camino · Jul 7, 2015

Robo said:
Yeh Yeh Yeh.............So you're all right again

Maybe just bits of.........as a tourist..............with my wife

We'll see............

Enjoy the process Robo! It's all part of it.

Mike Savage · Jul 7, 2015

Robo said:
. . .I started out seeking answers. Almost to "life the universe and everything" as per Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy!

Then I realised that perhaps I was seeking answers to the wrong questions. . . .

That sure hits home for me and is one important lesson I remember from the books. I bring this up at work all the time: "Before we try to figure out the answer let's make sure we know what the question is" It is seldom what it first appears to be.

bystander · Jul 7, 2015

Robo said:
You now have me thinking of my next Camino...............and I said I wouldn't do another one!

I understand this.....

.....I said the same to myself after my last long sailing trip - about 21 days out of the sight of land, 7 of us onboard and a bad sad falling out of 4 of us with the other 3 and no means of escape, a tainted trip.....

.....swore I would never go through that again.....

.....but now I only have to hear a seagull's cry, the wind keening and the rattle of halyards on a mast and my mind is away and yearning.....

nellpilgrim · Jul 7, 2015

DLJ said:
History shows that since the 1100's many people were journeying across Europe to either Santiago de Compostella or Rome for various religious reasons, penance, indulgence, answer to prayers, or just seeking. Some of these believed in hair shirts, self-flagellation, and religious superstitions, but all were recognized as making a religious pilgrimage. This was a time of not only the Crusades and the Inquisition (the Catholic Church was the over-all ruling power), but most of France, Spain, Italy didn't exist as today's nations, but a number of independent Provinces warring with each other in constant struggles for power. It was definitely not life in Camelot, for the middle and lower classes. I'm sure nobody at the time debated whether it was a Pilgrimage or a long .

Even in Ireland, situated on the far western edge of Christendom, the concept of Christian pilgrimage is much much older than 12th century. The concept of peregrinatio pro Christo of being an 'exile for Christ' that was such a characteristic part of the early Irish church found a counterpoint in the tradition of Irish clergy and lay people journeying across the island to holy sites-wells, locations of miracles, relics or the living place/burial place of local saints or to sites dedicated to rather grander 'imports'.
As Ireland is such a small country the elements of movement and endurance that are part of the act of pilgrimage were creatively reconfigured with the most remote and physically difficult to reach sites, such as Croagh Patrick or Mount Brandon that by their nature as mountains incorporated the element of endurance, having particular power. At pilgrimage sites where that element wasn't 'naturally' present then physical challenges were 'recreated' by the multiple repletion of complex ritual movements-some very extreme such as kneeling with the arms outstretched in a cross shape-, circling a site a certain number of times sometimes with prostrations, generally walking barefoot, often accompanied by fasting for the length of the pattern/pilgrimage and the physical separation of the pilgrims from the outside world.
If you want a taste of what some might consider this rather Hobbsian Irish approach to pilgrimage- "nasty, brutish and short" (I kinda like it)- you still can by making the traditional 3 day pilgrimage to Lough Derg where the pilgrims barefooted fasting isolation on an island is 'ramped up' by a period of 'lock down' within the church or walk barefoot up Croagh Patrick or Mount Brandon to attend the pilgrimage mass at the summit along with the hundreds of other pilgrims who do so every year.
As to some Irish Christian sites incorporating and absorbing earlier non christian sacred/pilgrimage sites and activities taking the concept of 'pilgrimage' even further back in time well that's a whole other thread…….

Victoria_Peregrina · Jul 7, 2015

Robo said:
Though I missed seeing 'Fat Morgan' on the Meseta. Where does he hang out

Funny! I am still giggling.

Robo said:
I started out seeking answers. Almost to "life the universe and everything" as per Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy!

I walked Camino Frances in 42 days. For me, the Camino itself was the Answer.

Victoria

fred1249 · Jul 8, 2015

I plan to depart from Boston MA on September 1st and leave St Jean Pied de Port on the 3rd. I believe it is a pilgrimage for me because I believe it is a call for me. A frequent question in my discerment is whether I'm calling myself or the Triune God is calling. I pray it's the latter. On The Camino I'll be asking God to tell. I hope I can be quiet enough to hear the answer!

+ Peace!

newfydog · Jul 8, 2015

In the States, we have this group "Outward Bound". They teach camping, hiking, climbing and other "long walk" sort of stuff but are determined to turn it into a spiritual experience. They send you off on a solo camp with a requirement to write in a journal. There is considerable pressure for the hike to become a spiritual event.

I always felt " fine, if it happens that way, but for many, it will just be a trip." So it goes with the Camino. Some go on a hike and find it spiritual. Some go expecting spirituality, and find a long hard hike with lots of people around them. User experience will always vary, as it should.

malingerer · Jul 8, 2015

newfydog said:
In the States, we have this group "Outward Bound". They teach camping, hiking, climbing and other "long walk" sort of stuff but are determiined to turn it into a spiritual experience. They send you off on a solo camp with a requirement to write in a journal. There is considerable pressure for the hike to become a spiritual event.

I always felt " fine, if it happens that way, but for many, it will just be a trip." So it goes with the Camino. Some go on a hike and find it spiritual. Some go expecting spirituality, and find a long hard hike with lots of people around them. User experience will always vary, as it should.

I was always under the impression that to go on pilgrimage was spiritual anyway
and have never described myself as a "walker!" Has the Camino lost its spiritual/pilgrim status? Perhaps the CF has become the victim of its own success and now simply takes its place on the "tick-box" list of walks? I personally find that sad. However, I am bound for the VDLP in Sep and may bitterly regret opening my big mouth when at 77 years of age I find I could do with a bit more "infrastructure" in the shape of places to rest my weary bones and less kilometres in between them!!

keeo on truckin!
the malingerer.

dougfitz · Jul 8, 2015

malingerer said:
Has the Camino lost its spiritual/pilgrim status? Perhaps the CF has become the victim of its own success and now simply takes its place on the "tick-box" list of walks?

The fact that the Pilgrim Office offers an alternative certificate to the compostela for those who don't walk with a spiritual intent indicates to me that the Church accepts the camino is not a pilgrimage for everyone who walks it. Besides, it is not the walk that enjoys pilgrim status, but the walker!

Robo · Jul 8, 2015

newfydog said:
In the States, we have this group "Outward Bound". They teach camping, hiking, climbing and other "long walk" sort of stuff but are determined to turn it into a spiritual experience. They send you off on a solo camp with a requirement to write in a journal. There is considerable pressure for the hike to become a spiritual event.

I always felt " fine, if it happens that way, but for many, it will just be a trip." So it goes with the Camino. Some go on a hike and find it spiritual. Some go expecting spirituality, and find a long hard hike with lots of people around them. User experience will always vary, as it should.

I did an Outward Bound course in the UK when I was 15. Sounds similar. But there was no spiritual element at all.

Tia Valeria · Jul 8, 2015

dougfitz said:
The fact that the Pilgrim Office offers an alternative certificate to the compostela for those who don't walk with a spiritual intent indicates to me that the Church accepts the camino is not a pilgrimage for everyone who walks it. Besides, it is not the walk that enjoys pilgrim status, but the walker!

Thanks @dougfitz I think that sums up very well.
Our pilgrimage (spiritual) this year was partly on a route not yet recognised by the Pilgrim Office (Ruta do Mar along the north coast from Ribadeo westwards), then on the Camino Inglés. To make life easy registering in Santiago we happily counted ourselves as Camino Inglés. This in no way lessened the spiritual aspect as for us it was all pilgrimage not just a long walk.

fraluchi · Jul 15, 2015

Robo said:
[...] ... I tried to think of what made this a Pilgrimage for me, rather than just a long walk. And I came up with these:

There is a strong purpose or gaol, that is centred around religion or spirituality.

There is probably a precise destination with a religious or spiritual significance. Having said that, Santiago the City was never really my goal. The journey was my goal. I called my Blog 'In Search of Santiago' for that very reason. I found 'him' long before I got to the actual place.

It needs to take time. It's not about distance, but time. Time to be away from our normal World. At 3 weeks into my Camino, it was all 'happening' for me. Less time would not have worked.

There needs to be a degree of suffering. I think this is important as it 'tests' our resolve and our commitment to the task, day by day. It might be physical, emotional or spiritual 'suffering'.

I think we need to make sacrifices. Again to test our resolve and keep us focussed on the true purpose of our journey. OK, it could be the sacrifice of time or money. But to a degree that is easy for most people. You could walk for 2 weeks and only spend 25e a day. No, I think a deeper sacrifice. Like leaving loved ones behind. Leaving commitments and responsibilities behind. Then we don't 'waste' our journey because we have 'paid dearly' for it in some very personal way.

I needed to travel slowly. To appreciate my surroundings and nature. To pause, to reflect, to listen. It was almost as if I needed to 'feel' and 'sense' my surroundings as I journeyed. I could not have done this any other way except walking slowly. Sorry Cyclists.

I needed to be open in all aspects for whatever and whomever I met. In fact I visited a Church at least once a day, and if I couldn't find one open, I found a quiet place by the trail. I would not class myself as that 'religious' in the traditional sense. But each day I gave thanks for being able to spend another day on my journey (as I could barely walk the week before I started, due to training injuries) and I promised to walk with an open mind and an open heart so as to take on board any lessons I needed. And there were plenty! Every day......

For me there also needed to be an element of history. I could have walked from Sydney to Melbourne. But the Camino was all about Pilgrimage. From the countless Churches and Crosses along the way, to the sense that we are walking the path trodden by millions for over a thousand years. Other Pilgrims, on a similar journey, seeking similar things.

Just my take on things. I felt very fortunate to walk the Camino I did. And I learnt so many lessons along the way. One of those of course being "Everyone walks their own Camino".

On the 2nd of August, Costa Rica honours Maria, "la Negrita" who is their patron, in Cartago. Every year, masses of people walk long distances from all over the country, many starting several weeks before the date, sleeping at schools and churches, receiving food at many places. Last year there were more than 2'000'000 pilgrims who arrived at the Cathedral. They all had this purpose, to this precise destination, taking time, suffering and making sacrifices, slowly advancing with an open mind to complete this historical pilgrimage.
Brilliant, Robo

Mooncat · Jul 16, 2015

Robo had an excellent post earlier with his 8 elements. Looking back in history, it is clear that the basis for being a Pilgrim has changed.

Based on my Catholic upbringing, I would imagine that in the Middle Ages Christian Faith was the primary motivation. Pilgrims must have firmly believed, as Christians, that the remains of St. James were truly in Santiago. Otherwise, why go there? Sacrifice would have been another critical element, as the journey would have been much longer for those traveling by foot than our current designated 30 days or so. For anyone undertaking the pilgrimage, they left everything and everyone behind for as long as it took to reach Santiago de Compostela and to return home by the same means. For the sick and poor, it might indeed have been the walk of a lifetime. And, this sacrifice, whether it be physical, emotional, monetary, would have been offered up for God's Graces. So, it was used to pay off a spiritual debt or as a down payment for your apartment in Heaven. That is why wealthy people often paid others to be Pilgrims in their name, similar to buying indulgences.

What qualifies us, today, as "Pilgrims" if we aren't Christian, or don't believe the story of St. James, or that we need to build credits for Heaven, and we can stay connected to home electronically, and if we can relatively easily recoup the costs and sacrifices endured during the journey? Perhaps in these modern, faster, more informed, and more mobile times it is indeed the Inner Journey that we undertake that makes us Pilgrims. As Colleen said, her Camino started the day she decided to Walk the Way. Mine too, two years ago.

So then, why continue to walk to Santiago if the earlier motivations no longer apply? Why not walk around your hometown 14 times instead? Inner Journeys don't require going to specific localities. That is where Robo's last element hits home. History! As reflective and feeling beings, part of being a Pilgrim may require connecting to those who walked The Way in the past. Mooncat

Albertagirl · Jul 16, 2015

Mooncat said:
Robo had an excellent post earlier with his 8 elements. Looking back in history, it is clear that the basis for being a Pilgrim has changed.

Based on my Catholic upbringing, I would imagine that in the Middle Ages Christian Faith was the primary motivation. Pilgrims must have firmly believed, as Christians, that the remains of St. James were truly in Santiago. Otherwise, why go there? Sacrifice would have been another critical element, as the journey would have been much longer for those traveling by foot than our current designated 30 days or so. For anyone undertaking the pilgrimage, they left everything and everyone behind for as long as it took to reach Santiago de Compostela and to return home by the same means. For the sick and poor, it might indeed have been the walk of a lifetime. And, this sacrifice, whether it be physical, emotional, monetary, would have been offered up for God's Graces. So, it was used to pay off a spiritual debt or as a down payment for your apartment in Heaven. That is why wealthy people often paid others to be Pilgrims in their name, similar to buying indulgences.

What qualifies us, today, as "Pilgrims" if we aren't Christian, or don't believe the story of St. James, or that we need to build credits for Heaven, and we can stay connected to home electronically, and if we can relatively easily recoup the costs and sacrifices endured during the journey? Perhaps in these modern, faster, more informed, and more mobile times it is indeed the Inner Journey that we undertake that makes us Pilgrims. As Colleen said, her Camino started the day she decided to Walk the Way. Mine too, two years ago.

So then, why continue to walk to Santiago if the earlier motivations no longer apply? Why not walk around your hometown 14 times instead? Inner Journeys don't require going to specific localities. That is where Robo's last element hits home. History! As reflective and feeling beings, part of being a Pilgrim may require connecting to those who walked The Way in the past. Mooncat

I can't speak for anyone else's motivation for making the pilgrimage. I am a Christian, but I do not believe that the relics of Saint James are in Santiago. Nor do I understand my pilgrimage in the ways that Mooncat attributes to the Christians of the Middle Ages. Maybe I shall know why I was called to pilgrimage when it is over. For now, all I know is that I am called to do it, so I am going. I am not convinced that this is so very different a motivation or understanding of the pilgrim journey than that of earlier pilgrims: God has called me, I must go.

CaminoDebrita · Jul 16, 2015

Albertagirl said:
I can't speak for anyone else's motivation for making the pilgrimage. I am a Christian, but I do not believe that the relics of Saint James are in Santiago. Nor do I understand my pilgrimage in the ways that Mooncat attributes to the Christians of the Middle Ages. Maybe I shall know why I was called to pilgrimage when it is over. For now, all I know is that I am called to do it, so I am going. I am not convinced that this is so very different a motivation or understanding of the pilgrim journey than that of earlier pilgrims: God has called me, I must go.

Always eloquent, always concise. I love the cadence of the last sentence, Albertagirl: "God has called me, I must go."

Robo · Jul 16, 2015

Mooncat said:
So then, why continue to walk to Santiago if the earlier motivations no longer apply? Why not walk around your hometown 14 times instead? Inner Journeys don't require going to specific localities. That is where Robo's last element hits home. History! As reflective and feeling beings, part of being a Pilgrim may require connecting to those who walked The Way in the past. Mooncat

Love it. I actually showed some of my video and gave a short talk at a business conference the other night. The theme being around finding yourself and your purpose, overcoming obstacles etc. I made exactly that point. Walking from Sydney to Melbourne is not the same.

Then in discussion later, people remarked about the sense of community. Being with like minded people, must have been a key element. Quite right I think...........

Robo · Jul 16, 2015

Albertagirl said:
I can't speak for anyone else's motivation for making the pilgrimage. I am a Christian, but I do not believe that the relics of Saint James are in Santiago. Nor do I understand my pilgrimage in the ways that Mooncat attributes to the Christians of the Middle Ages. Maybe I shall know why I was called to pilgrimage when it is over. For now, all I know is that I am called to do it, so I am going. I am not convinced that this is so very different a motivation or understanding of the pilgrim journey than that of earlier pilgrims: God has called me, I must go.

I can't wait to hear your 'story' when you return

Mooncat · Jul 17, 2015

When in school long ago, playing around, when somebody got hurt, like hit in the head with a ball that was kicked toward them on purpose when they were looking the other way, the witnesses to the cruel act would, while smiling and laughing, offer the advice to the victim of, "Offer the pain up as penance." The thought of securing our place in Heaven through our sufferings here on Earth craftfully endured from the Middle Ages to at least my youth, due to diligent Christian teachings.

How attractive a Pilgrimage would truly be today if its successful completion would result in your house or car being paid off or lapses in alimony payments forgiven. It is true, our motivations today are different than our Pilgrim brothers and sisters of the Middle Ages. God Bless Us All Anyway. Mooncat

fraluchi · Jul 18, 2015

Eugenio Gariibay (Amigos Camino Santiago - Najara) tells the story of his Camino and his last verses are: "La fuerza que a mi empuja, la fuerza que a mi me atrae, no se explica ni yo, sólo El de arriba lo sabe". Only He up there knows the answer

Bobcat77 · Jul 19, 2015

Wow. The power of four letters.
The Way of St James ... Becomes..
Therapy Way of St James.
Interesting.

Coleen Clark · Jul 19, 2015

Bobcat77 said:
Wow. The power of four letters.
The Way of St James ... Becomes..
Therapy Way of St James.
Interesting.

So, Bobcat77, how does that make you feel? Use your words.

colinPeter · Jul 19, 2015

KiwiNomad06 said:
......
So there you have it. My Camino was a very meaningful experience, and I know it still is seeping through my being. But pilgrim or long distance walker? I am still not totally sure...
Margaret

Very nicely expressed Margaret.
Maybe you are now becoming a "lapsed" long distance walker
Colin

KiwiNomad06 · Jul 20, 2015

"Very nicely expressed Margaret.
Maybe you are now becoming a "lapsed" long distance walker Colin"
Not too lapsed Colin. Walked for ten days in Umbria in April. Didn't carry my luggage, but did walk up and down a large quota of steep hills with stunning views. Might try something nice and simple next time like the Cotswolds ;-)
Margaret

colinPeter · Jul 20, 2015

KiwiNomad06 said:
"Very nicely expressed Margaret.
Maybe you are now becoming a "lapsed" long distance walker Colin"
Not too lapsed Colin. Walked for ten days in Umbria in April. Didn't carry my luggage, but did walk up and down a large quota of steep hills with stunning views. Might try something nice and simple next time like the Cotswolds ;-)
Margaret

Yes, I think some of the UK walks would be great, mind you, your Italian walk sounded good as well.
Colin

Victoria_Peregrina · Jul 20, 2015

Bobcat77 said:
Wow. The power of four letters.
The Way of St James ... Becomes..
Therapy Way of St James.
Interesting.

In David Lodge's novel Therapy, the Camino provides the ultimate therapy.

Mooncat · Jul 31, 2015

This morning, while on my training walk up a small mountain several miles distant from my house, I happened upon the scene of a death. The name of the mountain is Tortugas, meaning turtle, and is the site of a short yearly pilgrimage performed by a local Native American tribe from their community in town to the summit. At the summit is a small domed observatory. This morning, against the wall of the observatory was leaning a lone black mountain bike contrasting starkly against the white wall. The presumed owner of the bike had been found a short time earlier around the curve of the wall by some hikers who had arrived ahead of me. When I asked what was going on, they said there had been a suicide.

There are several paths and a road to the summit of Tortugas Mountain, all of them challenging in their steepness. For this reason, it is a popular hiking and mountain biking destination. This morning, I had ventured out to the mountain for the purpose of fitness, but on my return, I gave no thought to that original goal. I grieved for the young man whose life had ended on that summit, though his identity is currently not known to me. On my journey down, an aching hollowness overtook me, as I felt an overwhelming need to share my grief with somebody. But, I was alone.

Though I have not yet walked The Way, I do believe that a person can start The Camino for reasons non-spiritual and not as a "Pilgrim", and undergo changes, quite unexpectedly and end up as a "Pilgrim". I also feel very strongly that an integral part of the Pilgrim identity must include being able to share the daily experiences, painful and joyful, with others whom we meet along the same path. Mooncat

wawpdx · Jul 31, 2015

Mooncat said:
... but on my return, I gave no thought to that original goal. I grieved for the young man whose life had ended on that summit, though his identity is currently not known to me. On my journey down, an aching hollowness overtook me, as I felt an overwhelming need to share my grief with somebody. But, I was alone.

Though I have not yet walked The Way, I do believe that a person can start The Camino for reasons non-spiritual and not as a "Pilgrim", and undergo changes, quite unexpectedly and end up as a "Pilgrim". I also feel very strongly that an integral part of the Pilgrim identity must include being able to share the daily experiences, painful and joyful, with others whom we meet along the same path. Mooncat

Mooncat, words are failing me but I want to acknowledge that you have been heard.

My heart goes out to this young man's family and community.

KiwiNomad06 · Jul 31, 2015

Mooncat, your very sad account has reminded me of the morning on the Camino when I met a young woman pilgrim who was clearly thinking about suicide. I had stayed the night before in San Martin del Camino, and unusually, nobody I 'knew' was in the same albergue, so I departed early, alone, to try and beat the day's heat. I stopped at the next village along for some breakfast, and again, unusually, there was nobody else there at the cafe but this young woman and myself. We got talking. She was a student in London, who had come from Eastern Europe. It seemed that she had been walking the Camino in a last ditch effort to find some purpose for her life. But she was finishing her Camino that day as she had basically run out of money, and hadn't found the 'solution' she was seeking. It was clear that in London she was incredibly lonely. Mostly I listened, and I was very conscious that anything I said was potentially 'important' in the circumstances. Eventually I ended up telling her, quietly, something about my own teenage/ young adult years, which were not all easy, as I had been orphaned. I almost felt 'guided' in what I said, so that it might be helpful, not harmful or critical- and hopefully a sign that the difficulties of youth might pass with time. I have often wondered since, what happened to that young woman, and I sincerely hope she is still alive and found some help. But it did seem that our meeting was a 'pilgrim' moment, and that we were meant to meet that morning.
Margaret

Anemone del Camino · Aug 1, 2015

The definition of "Therapy Way" is the best description of the current Camino that I've read.

Victoria_Peregrina · Aug 1, 2015

When I was walking the Camino, I had two separate conversations with two different people about suicide. One was contemplating it; the other one had someone who had committed it. Both people were in their 20s. In the first case, I felt responsible to give the person convincing reasons to live. In the second case, we talked about the vagaries of life.

My two friends' and KiwiNomado6's story lead me to believe that some people come to the Camino because they are utterly unhappy. I hope that most of them find solutions to their problems and meaning to their lives.

Robo · Aug 1, 2015

Victoria_Peregrina said:
When I was walking the Camino, I had two separate conversations with two different people about suicide. One was contemplating it; the other one had someone who had committed it. Both people were in their 20s. In the first case, I felt responsible to give the person convincing reasons to live. In the second case, we talked about the vagaries of life.

My two friends' and KiwiNomado6's story lead me to believe that some people come to the Camino because they are utterly unhappy. I hope that most of them find solutions to their problems and meaning to their lives.

The Camino can at times be a wonderful enveloping 'family' of like minded, caring and healing souls........and sometimes a very lonely and desperate place. Our state of mind determines which I think......... Thankfully my own Camino consisted mainly of the former, but with doses of the latter nonetheless.

Bobcat77 · Aug 2, 2015

Moon at, your story is beautifully and sensitively told. Thanks for sharing. May The Lord have mercy on that young cyclist. Amen.

Mooncat · Aug 3, 2015

Thank you, Bobcat. Yes, it is heartbreaking to think of anyone taking their own life. I did not see the fellow and do not know his identity, but could tell by the nature of his bike and the fact that he rode up the mountain that he must have been in exceptional physical condition and committed to the positive activity of mountain biking. So, it is even more perplexing that he took his own life, when one takes into account the many stories we have all read on this forum from people who are survivors of some serious health issue or who have been diagnosed with some serious, limiting malady, but who are eager and thankful to be planning and participating to walk The Camino. Most, if not all, of the contributors to this forum appear to have expressed in their posts, either directly or indirectly, their appreciation for the value of good health and the preciousness of time. So, it is very sad to think of someone just throwing it all away. But, such is the nature of depression. Well, enough on that. I do not wish to digress further on this thread. Mooncat

susanglori · Aug 25, 2015

I was apparently blocked from American Pilgrims on the Camino because I ws defending the Camino as a pilgrimage. I am so glad to be here where there is a better understanding of its history.

Mooncat · Aug 25, 2015

Welcome, Susanglori! Time for you to become part of the history of the Camino. I start mine in about a week. And, then I shall measure the true values of the snippets of wisdom, bold advices, warm encouragements, and stern warnings I have received from this forum. Mooncat

Bobcat77 · Aug 26, 2015

A week? Good for you, Mooncat. Look forward to hearing your comments after-the-fact.
I've bought a few more bits and pieces of gear over the last month. (I travel to St Jean around 10 March 2016). I gave my 700 gram Rodens (?) sleeping bag and liner last 2 nights while on a quick visit to out holiday home. We've friends coming to stay and didn't want to remake the beds for one night ... then we stayed two.!! however, the bag was comfortable and easy to get in and out of (even in the dark!). AND it rolls up tiny ... and easily. I also took my backpack for a 5K jaunt a few nights ago. Very comfortable and stable. Big change from my youth hostelling days .. oops, that was 40 years ago. So training begins, both physical and spiritual. A very important part of it all for me.
Roll on March!

kfw · Tuesday at 12:35 AM

Let me start off by saying that I have done 10 Caminos. This is not to brag but to say that I should have known better. Before my last one, my grandkids convinced me that I should document the...

Robo · Tuesday at 2:20 AM

I'm sure a lot of us pour over our Camino photos from time to time as they bring back such wonderful memories. Not just of that great view or amazing meal, but some may have a much greater meaning...

JustJack · Wednesday at 10:23 PM

I've always wondered about the security bars you frequently see on the windows of homes in Spain. The obvious purpose is security, but they are so ubiquitous, including on the windows of houses in...

Jeff Crawley · Thursday at 3:07 PM

Among the many, many things I was ignorant of is the Jubilee Camino. Coming home from London yesterday, while scanning the departure boards at the station, I had a chance meeting with a fellow...

angmsmith · Thursday at 6:37 PM

I got back from my first Camino earlier this year in September. I loved it, found a lot of joy and strength from the experience. But I didn't really think that I would do it again. It was a...

JustJack · Thursday at 7:23 PM

There seems to be a sense that the number of pilgrims walking in Spain will continue to increase every year, putting more and more pressure on the infrastructure and impacting on all the things...

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