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What does it really cost?

bjorgts

Active Member
Time of past OR future Camino
In Spain, France, Portugal, Germany since 2003
I saw a video with a rather harsh criticism of a small, municipal albergue on one of the less traveled caminos. They paid 9€. I thought: What does it cost a small municipality to renovate and keep such an albergue? I'm sure it's more than the pilgrims pay in. Am I right? I've tried to find some numbers, but can't find anything. I guess we don't pay what it actually costs in such small places, so maybe a little humility is good? Many of us are guests in this country.
 
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Absolutely agree .. the costs are there 12 months of the year, even if the refugio is closed for the winter.

Property taxes/rents and repairs, periodic replacement of everything from mattresses to light bulbs, insurance - can you imagine how much it costs to insure a refugio?
9 Euros? How on earth do they manage that?

And then there are the hospitelaros .. unsung heroes all, most unpaid volunteers - up before the first pilgrims, going to bed after the last pilgrims ... cleaning, maintenance, shopping ... trying to treat every pilgrim question as if it is the first time they have heard it ... handling rude pilgrims - and we all know that many pilgrims arrive tired and with low blood sugar - so can be irritable and snappy - let alone this new thing of the 'entitled' pilgrim that seems to be arising ...

and all this for 9 Euros?

AirBnB here in Bath, where I live - and remember this is for a room and a bathroom (often shared) averages £115 (140€) a night

so - 9 Euros??
 
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The problem on small routes is that there is often no alternative to an albergue. That's how it was at the place in question. It was clearly not very good there either, but for example at Gronze there are both positive and negative comments, and they were experienced pilgrims.. A video seen by thousands, is a poweful medium.
 
Was the problem the price or other issues? Do you have link to the video?
 
As usual, you need to travel with a level of low expectancy, in order to muster the tolerance for whatever you will encounter, this includes accepting the "boring parts" of the Mezeta, to the seemingly squalid accomodation you might find, when there is nothing else.
It helps being an old fart and having had to bivuaking under your poncho as a tarp in a storm, to staying in an entirely empty seminary school on the Sanabrés.
Adventures are also perilous at times, so let that be the level of your expectations, and anything else will be a surprise!
By all means top up with private accomodation, Paradors and hotels, but do not complain about standards in cheapo hostels!! please....!
Some Spanish people have given their lives to supply cheap overnight shelter for you to sleep and to shower and for that everybody should be thankful.. In municipales it is down to voluntary workers, it is what it is....Some pilgrims are tight with donativos, so this is slowly dying out .....
True, that in ´14 I could do with 26EU a day, the going rate was 3/5/7 EU for sleeping....
With general rise in costs and the spacing requirement in dorms, everything has quadrupled, it seems.
 
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So many angles to this question... Guess you could discuss the historic/religious context, in the sense of a "community" taking some kind of pride in providing the handfull of pilgrims that pass their place shelter for a night.
You could also discuss, why the price difference between a (lets assume) very basic albergue run by volunteers and a nicer for-profit albergue run by paid stuff is surprisingly small. I don't even dare touch the vast grey area between those.

I absolutely agree it can still seem very cheap for what you get, even at the more "expensive" places. What i find kind of interesting is the rise in cost, specially for the volunteer albergues, in the past 5 years. Some have easily doubled in price. I'm sure theres good reason for that, i just can't get my head around it. That might not a problem for me or the majority of the forum members (assuming most are from western Europe or North America), but it might impact people from lower income parts of the world.
 
I think it varies from place to place. The relatively new albergue in Canfranc Pueblo has a sign about the monies used to rennovate and that cost was more than 900,000 euros. There are of course ongoing costs and this albergue is not as heavily used yet as other municipals, but it would be difficult to recoup at 9 euros a night.
 

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There needs to be some context before we can say if the complaint was warranted, as even the cheapest places should have a certain level of cleanliness for instance.

If I paid 9 euros and say the toilets hadn't been cleaned for a month or there was mouldy food in the fridge or the mattress was filthy - then that is ok to complain about irrespective of cost if you are that way inclined.

If they were expecting 5 star facilities for their 9 euros then that isn't a reason to complain (unless of course the jacuzzi wasn't working).

Some of my favourite stays on the Camino were in the most basic of places. Cost of course is very relevant, but for me of more importance is the love, passion and pride of the hospitelero or local community when it comes to the local Albergues - this will generally dictate the basic conditions and experience.

I have no idea what the video is complaining about btw.
 
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Anhalter said:
Not to sound harsh, but very unlikely it is just that. ( I have been the guy purchasing those commodities for my company for the last decade, so i do actually have a pretty good idea about that field).
Click to expand...


Well , then living costs in general.

I presume that most of us see how more expensive the content of our shoppingcart became.

Food Prices in Spain

Average food prices in Spain. Various related sociological and economical indexes calculated for Spain.
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It all still costs less than many of the campsites I used daily this summer on a trip to Alaska through Canada and the US. A picnic table, fire ring and access to a pit toilet was usually more than the equivalent of 9 euros. I think it is all relative. I find even very nice hotels in Spain less expensive than hotel rooms in much of my own country.

The Xunta albergues charge 10 euros currently and they don't use volunteers.
 
I think it's a mixture of community-service, financial support through Municipality, Regional and Central Government und Europe, being free of taxes and many helping voluntary people that run those albergues.

If all works out well, the Municipality got a break even or have to pay a small amount to sustain the shelter.
At 9€ per night it is impossible that they make money out of it.

On many remodelling sites of building or landscape I've seen on the frances in '19 were signs posted that even lists the supporting partners with the amount that they gave.
 
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Lindsay53 said:
Was the problem the price or other issues? Do you have link to the video?
Click to expand...
I think the main problem was the conditions. My main question is: What does an albergue really cost a small village? More than we pay? If it costs more than we pay, of cause we can sigh over the conditions, but perhaps not have a harsh criticism on video? The locals can close the albergue. They are not obligated to run it. Then we have nothing. I do not want to link the video. Sorry.
 


Well, if I can't see the content of the video I neither have any idea about details or subtleties.
 
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bjorgts said:
What does it cost a small municipality to renovate and keep such an albergue?
Click to expand...
This is an impossible question to answer. The cost could be so wildly different, depending on the cost associated with the building, whether there are volunteers, when the last time the roofing or plumbing needed fixing, etc.
The answer would be variable and location specific.
And whether the nine euros covers the costs or exceeds the costs would depend on how busy they are.

I would guess that if a town decides to put in a municipal Albergue, it's considering other gains like that it's local businesses get more business. If you're staying in a town, you probably spend more than nine euros on food, drink, etc.
 
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Lindsay53 said:
Was the problem the price or other issues? Do you have link to the video?
Click to expand...

I pretty much always stay at municipals when walking. They vary. Most the ones I stayed in last year were brilliant, but there were a few with problems. I don't think the cost is the problem. Municipals are often really nice, some are very basic, but for me it's unusual to find a truly bad municipal.

So for example on the Ingles I stayed at the Presedo Municipal. It was cheap at 7 euros, but it was crazy hot inside, like 40-50C at 2am and the windows didn't open. A lot of that was the vending machines pumping hot air out and they would have benefitted from a vent in that area to allow heat to escape. Also no kitchen, just toilets and showers. I sat with four others for about 2 hours outside because of the heat, at 2am.

At Cea on the Sanabres, the hospitalero was rather rude to pretty much everyone and said a few bad things about two female pilgrims. The rest of us couldn't understood why he said it. No one was causing issues.

The Ourense municipal is another one that was not a good experience. The hospitalero was drunk and started shouting at me when i arrived. A couple of other Brits that were staying there said he did the same to them when they arrived and he'd been sat outside drinking beers for most of the day. Never worked out why, so feigned ignorance and not understanding Spanish and got a bed for the night. Went to Grello Hostel the next night and much better experience.

My guess is negative comments are coming from things happening like those.

What does it cost to run and maintain them. I guess it depends on the albergue.

Ones like the newish one at Ferrol would cost more because they had new everything and even had air con, but they might have gotten a discount on stuff since it was part of the leisure centre. Where as the one at Presedo was really basic and also housed the community centre. So cost wise some electric for lights, water costs and one of the Spanish guys staying there said the hospitalero worked for the local council as a gardener. He wasn't a full time hospitalero, he just came in twice a day, to clean up in morning and book in pilgrims in the evening.

Over the years i've been to many. Most towns have one and a lot of villages. They also aren't all on the camino routes. You can find them in towns and villages away from the routes as well. The first one i stayed at was off the Madrid camino at Villada. The hospitalero said they got more trail walkers at their albergue and only a small number of pilgrims. But they were open all year. It was a nice albergue. Clean, modern, good internet and I think i paid 8 euros for the night.
 
I don't know about the less travelled caminos, but I walked the CF this fall and 8 euros was the lowest I paid- it was more commonly 10-13 euros and some were 15-16. municipals and parish ones were cheaper but I tended towards ones with a communal meal. I'm 65 and didn't feel like cooking at the end of the day!
 
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I only recall two really bad experiences in nearly ten years when I've stayed in albergues for the amazingly low cost of €10 or less. Interestingly, both had unfriendly, disinterested hospitaleros checking me in and also both were quite filthy. I remember those experiences like they happened yesterday. All others have been either totally adequate or wonderful experiences and such a bargain!
On my recent Invierno/Ingles we had to spend between €72 - €125 a night four different times due to nothing else available and no albergue options nearby. They were lovely experiences, but not my preference to spend that much while on Camino. I normally have no problem finding a range of €50-60 for private accomodations and is not very expensive, especially when there are two beds and able to split the cost with another person.
 
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I understand that as a general question, it is impossible to know what it costs to renovate and maintain an albergue. Sorry! But my question was a little more narrow: A small, municipal albergue on one of the less traveled caminos. I'm not thinking about the big main caminos. All over Spain there are many small albergues with 5-15 beds in old schools, or in a room attached to a sports hall. Does it help if I give some examles?
In Alatoz on the Ruta de Lana, they got a small albergue in 2018. Before that, the pilgrims had to sleep on training mats in the sports hall. When we stayed there at the end of October, we were number 178 and 179 since Easter that year. That is an average of about one pilgrim a day. I don't remember if it was donativo or a low price, but maximum 2000€ a year can't be enough to renovate and maintain an albergue?
In Quinthanilla on the Camino Via de la Plata Portugues they have a nice, municipal albergue! When we got there three weeks after Easter, we were the first that year. Who pays?
On the Camino San Salvador, the number of pilgrims seems to be increasing. (It is difficult to find numbers, because the camino ends in Oviedo and not in Santiago.) But are there enough overnight stays to maintain the old school buildings in Buiza and Poladura?
Even on Via de la Plata a couple of the albergues belonging to the Alba-Plata association are open and shut, oen and shut (Torremejía and Albergue del Embalse de Alcántara). Are there financial reasons?
Some names of other small, municipal albergues: Pozalmuro on Camino Castellano-Aragonés. Campofrio on Camino Sur. Cuevas Bajas on Camino Mozarabe de Malaga. Alboloduy and La Peza on Camino Mozarabe de Almeria …
I understand that the financing of such albergues is very varied, so my question has many answers. But I still believe that it is not us pilgrims who pay everything. Is it? I think somebody else also pay so that we can live cheaply on caminos in Spain. It might be worth thinking of from time to time.
Sorry if my English is wrong here and there.
 
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The same person, most probably, complains about everything as he/she is unable to put things in context, is cheap, and does not value the people and the effort it takes to run an Albergue at such a ridiculously low price. I am not dumping on the person; am just saying they need to obtain a proper life perspective. This person has issues; I have issues. Such is life. Chuck
 
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I remember my very first camino, in 1998, when I walked the length of France and found my first pilgrim refugio at Gradignon, south of Bordeaux.

Upon arriving in Spain, I was astonished to discover that the typical cost of a night in a municipal refugio was 500 pesetas. Absolutely nothing! In those days, you didn't have much choice of accommodation, so I was supremely grateful for any village that had a refugio. I remember walking from Hornillos del Camino, which, at the time, had a lovely municipal refugio with a great hospitalera, to Itero de la Vega, which had a tiny refugio, not very clean, not very looked-after, but still there, for my use. I didn't sit around bemoaning the fact that there weren't fresh flowers on the table (there wasn't a table - just 3 sets of tired old bunk-beds and a cold-water shower). I found the broom and the mop and gave it a bit of a clean.

I think there are many pilgrims nowadays who've watched far too many YT videos on 'what to expect on the camino' and are ignorant of the fact that maintaining a refugio is a whole lot of hard work with little or no reward.
 
Assuming the peseta rate was similar to that of my first Spanish trip (Ibiza, 1984), 500 pesetas was around £2.50.

But the question to me isn’t around the cost but around the value. I struggle to see how anybody can form a view that the ‘product’ isn’t worth €9 a night. I use the word ‘product’ as it’s not all about the bed, you get storage, cooking facilities etc. The going rate for storage in Europe ranges from €4 (for a locker at a German station) to far more. Try and find a hotel that will offer you a shower and you are talking double figures.

Reviews of cheap accommodation are alway quite a read. I have seen folks in the cheapest accommodation moan about the lack of room service and valet parking.
 
I have seen filed complaints/refund claims from tourists to their insurance companies about people in Spain were only speaking Spanish...
 
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I wonder whether some rate-related complaints are based on that person's home currency value (if a foreigner) and therefore the perceived value based on rate conversion. Coming from Oz, where our currency is basically worthless overseas, €9 is about AUD$14 which may give an international traveller a skewed view of monetary value? Having said that, I consider AUD$14 exceptional value, especially given the dynamics and on-costs of running municipal albergues.

In Greece in May I got €109 for my AUD$200. It can be heart-breaking but that's my problem, not that of the host country. And that's not factoring in the high cost of air travel from here. Budgeting for travel from DownUnder means largely doubling what I need.
 
Sorry I am being a bit slow here and not quite understanding. I have been to Oz quite a bit in the last few years. The cost of groceries, alcohol, eating out seems to only rival USA in terms of price. Possibly Canada and NZ are similar too but far less experience there . I have always assumed that when you travel in Europe things must seem so cheap, so not sure why AUD would be seen as worthless, of the rate you get versus Euro would be heartbreaking. A close friend from UK who emigrated to Adelaide, always says when he comes back and we take him to the pub that beer is virtually free! All that said coming down to Oz in Jan and the GBP has been making good gains, which should lessen the pain!
 
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Our conversion is poor for most Western currencies. Today our $ when converted to US only gets us USD$62c, almost the same for €. I'm not saying it's expensive to live here when compared to elsewhere, (although stat's often say that)....it's our buying power overseas that I'm referring to and especially when buying foreign currency for travel. Your comment re your upcoming Jan visit says it all.....you know for every GBP you'll be getting almost 50% more.
 
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I thought AUD had had a good run versus the EUR but hey ho. Yes I got 1.76 vs GBP last year and hope to get 1.95 in Jan but doesn’t really offset the high costs but I know where the TAB bars are!

But yes USD/ EUR moving towards parity. It will be quite a moment, albeit symbolic.
 
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Nah, we're really bad. The money change guy in Greece actually asked me why our $ is such a bad performer! Tragic really

Enjoy your DownUnder vacay. A long hot summer, blue skies, great beaches and plenty of TAB bars.....you'll have a ball!
 
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Some interesting perspectives.
Out of curiosity I looked at the exchange rate over the last 20 years.
In 2011 we had parity with the US$ and have declined since.
Our dollar now buys 65 USc.

In the same period our dollar bought €0.75 down to €0.61.

Yes, the cost of our Caminos can seem high, because of the long flights involved (22 hrs)

But to me, Spain at least seems cheap in comparison to Sydney!
Meals and accomodation seem to be about half what I would pay here, or less.
Sometimes I do the conversion in my head, but mostly I just think in € now.

Of course other parts of Europe, particularly tourist areas seem horrendously expensive!
We are visiting UK next year and the cost of low-mid range Hotels seems to be the same as 4* here in Sydney. Not sure about meals, as we have not been to the UK for a few years. We shall see..... No idea of Beer prices, as I don't really use pubs. But looking online it seems pub beer is about 10% cheaper in the UK.

It's always hard comparing the cost of living, as there are so many factors. Most research includes the cost of housing in a typical 'basket'. And housing in Sydney is some of the most expensive in the World! (similar to Paris, looking at online research)

So for this Aussie Pilgrim, regardless of the exchange rate, Spain is definitely not expensive.

Sorry to side track............

Back to the cost of an Albergue Bunk!

I have stayed in some Albergues that got terrible reviews on Gronze. Like 50% bad out of 40-50 reviews.
But I stayed there, as there were really no other options.

Generally I was shocked and saddened.
Many of the reviews were just nit picking and foolish in my view.
None of the places deserved those reviews.
And one gets bad reviews because the owner is Grumpy! Get a life folks......

Yes he is a bit grumpy. But a good person beneath it.
He runs an Albergue and a bar, and probably has all kinds of things going on in his life.
Both the Albergue and bar are fine.

If an Albergue is filthy and falling apart, maybe that's not so good.
I did stay in one where the toilet door locks were broken as were the toilet seats.
We put a chair behind the toilet door and invited those using it to sing whilst inside

The elderly lady running it was delightful and even did our washing!
Overall, it was a great place to stay.......

As an aside, we have seriously considered buying an Albergue a couple of times.
Talking to the owners, going through the books, etc etc.
But I honestly worry about how I might handle the 'plonkers' with their petty complaints.....
I think we would get some very bad reviews.
 
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Robo said:
I did stay in one where he toilet door locks were broken as were the toilet seats.
We put a chair behind the toilet door and invited those using it to sing whilst inside
Click to expand...
On my first Camino the monk who showed me into the Samos refugio told me that the only water was a tap in the street and there was no toilet - he pointed to some trees across the road and told me to use those if necessary. On the previous night in O Cebreiro the refugio was one of the stone and thatch pallozas where pilgrims lay on straw on the beaten earth floor and the place was lit by candles. Can't help feeling we are getting a little too fussy these days....
 

Let me guess. This was in.................1863
 
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Thank you. Yes agree with all that! Spain can feel incredibly cheap and that’s the bottom line, esp. for folks who reside in the more expensive countries. ! They don’t seem to hugely increase prices in the more touristy areas either like many other countries!

Yes the studies that compare costs by country often feel different from what you really experience.

All I can say is I am glad my children are grown up and the ‘trip of a lifetime’ to Disneyworld, Florida was 25 years ago… can’t imagine affording that now!
 
bjorgts said:
I do not want to link the video
Click to expand...
Why not? I'd be interested to hear what has actually been said. The overwhelming majority of pilgrims don't complain, yet we focus on the complainers.

And hardly anybody knows what the actual costs of an albergue are for a small town or village. Occasionally there are news reports about the investment for renovating an old school building or a former priest's residence and turning it into a pilgrim albergue - often a sign of change in Spain because there is no longer a school building in use and a priest no longer lives in the village - and these sums appear horrendously high to me. But they help to save the local patrimony from destruction.
 
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